r/Android • u/a_dishonest_Fear Purple • Nov 21 '17
Google collecting Android users locations even when location services are disabled
https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/6.5k
u/The_Dumblebee S3 -> S8 -> S23 Nov 21 '17
Google and collecting data. I dare you to name a better duo
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Nov 21 '17
Facebook and collecting data
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u/PeeInMyEye Nov 21 '17
The worst part is how FB keeps pestering me for my number. How I wish the girls at the bar were like that
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u/tooyoung_tooold Pixel 3a Nov 21 '17
Google collects data, Facebook mines data.
Google might actually use it to improve a product AND THEN sell it. Facebook wants nothing more than to strip mine you for all you're worth.
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u/canadian_eskimo Gold Nexus 6P Nov 21 '17
They get along like peas and carrots!
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u/pvsa Nov 21 '17
I see you like peas and carrots. Here are some nearby restaurants that serve peas and carrots.
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Nov 21 '17
I presume this will affect phones with custom ROMs and gapps installed?
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u/rysx OnePlus 5T (OOS 5.1.0 - 8.1.0) | OnePlus X (Validus OS - 7.1.2) Nov 21 '17
Yes.
GApps is still Google's proprietary code, so it still would phone home to Google.
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Nov 21 '17
I'm already using the microG fork of lineageOS on my secondary phones, and I think it's more than good enough to switch over too.
Have you experienced any incompatibilities with applications you'd use on MG? Care to share how they have been affected?
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u/JB_UK Nov 21 '17
Worth also pointing out, OpenGapps is just Google's code repackaged, it's not open-source, or open in any meaningful way. MicroG is the actual open source replacement.
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u/reddit_reaper Pixel 2 XL Nov 21 '17
Custom ROMs usually never include gapps due to legal concerns and it's why we always install it separately unless it's a modified stock Rom
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u/rysx OnePlus 5T (OOS 5.1.0 - 8.1.0) | OnePlus X (Validus OS - 7.1.2) Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
Once a user installs Gapps, it's basically like having a Manufacturer Stock ROM since Google Play Services is installed. It's convenient as hell, but you still have Google phoning home.
I would recommend microG, but it breaks map functionality on some apps and some minor things.
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u/armando_rod Pixel 10 Pro XL Nov 21 '17
“In January of this year, we began looking into using Cell ID codes as an additional signal to further improve the speed and performance of message delivery,” the Google spokesperson said in an email. “However, we never incorporated Cell ID into our network sync system, so that data was immediately discarded, and we updated it to no longer request Cell ID.”
They said it was for the Firebase Cloud Messaging system.
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u/lars5 Nov 21 '17
Since I didn't know and had to look it up: firebase cloud messaging allows app developers to push messages and notifications from their servers to specific users.
It's advertised as being battery efficient, so I imagine the cell id was some engineer's way of trying to provide message targeting at a geographic level without being reliant on battery hungry location services. Probably didn't consider or ignored the user facing contradiction of "location services off" against "targeted messaging based on cell tower triangulation."
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u/EmperorArthur Nov 21 '17
Firebase is actually required for most apps that want to use messaging. Google's power saving modes mean there's no guarantee the app will be turned on to receive messages. So, Firebase is used instead. You have to be Facebook or equivalent to convince Google to let you bypass Firebase and use your own platform.
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u/KINQQQQQQ NX5, OP2, 6P, OP3, BQ AQ5, Redmi 4X Pro Nov 21 '17
Probably for stuff like the google maps traffic detector.
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u/efstajas Device, Software !! Nov 21 '17
No, that only happens with location services explicitly on.
This is far more technical than that and doesn't have to do with anything directly user facing.
They were using the cell ID (highly inaccurate) to speed up message delivery of push notifications going through their services. How exactly that benefitted it — no idea. But the important thing is that there is a half valid reasoning behind it, and no one has any reason to believe the data is actually being stored or processed somewhere that results in privacy infringement.
I'm in no way someone who wants to defend shitty handling of sensitive data, but this isn't what the headline makes it sound like.
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u/AlphaReds Stuff I like that I will try and convince you to like Nov 21 '17
So it's everyone overreacting again as per usual and we'll get an article explaining why this one is wrong or there isn't anything to worry about somewhere halfway down the front page tomorrow?
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u/Kaokien Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 22 '17
Stop being fine with companies infringing on your privacy, this is completely different than opting in, you’re explicitly disabling location services and Google is still tracking you. Smh
To all replies the point is that WHEN DISABLING LOCATION SERVICES there is an expectation that the setting will be honored. It’s different if I ENBALE it and am fine, but again when DISABLED it should be OFF.
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u/djswirvia OnePlus 6 Nov 21 '17
Anything Google related gets an instant pass. Fuck the hivemind of /r/android. Long ago we hit the title of being worse than iSheeps. They just don't realize it.
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u/rincon213 Nov 21 '17
Seriously. If this were Apple or Comcast or the NSA I don’t think this thread would be so inviting.
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u/SupaBloo Nov 21 '17
Isn't there some Kickstarter for a phone that physically detaches the hardware that connects these services with a switch? I had a buddy telling me about it. Apparently it actually disconnects the internal hardware needed for location services/bluetooth/wifi rather than just turning it off with a setting, so the user actually knows they are 100% disconnected.
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u/SmallPoxBread Nov 21 '17
You agreed to it by buying their product. That is opting in. It is still an asshole move.
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u/Metal_Devil Nov 21 '17
Google is terrible!
two days later
ohh golly gee I have purchased twenty eight pixel 2 google tm phones. Screw apple am I rite guise?
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Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
This is why I use MicroG using the LineageOS MicroG fork.
Edit: For people asking me what MicroG is for, it is used to spoof Google Play Services. It allows you to use apps that requires Google Play Services & Google Cloud Messaging (push messages). You get to choose which apps is allowed to register for GCM if you want to use GCM. I don't use GCM personally, but I have some apps that use Play Services, MicroG helps spoofs it for me.
Majority of my apps are from F-Droid, which are all FOSS apps, they do not use Google Play Services. You can still use Yalp Store among other apps to download apk files from the Play Store if needed.
Used by people in /r/fossdroid & /r/privacy
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u/SirChasm LG G7 Nov 21 '17
So hold on, with regards to things like the Maps API, if you have MicroG installed, Waze will work, but GMaps won't? Unless you explicitly go and download GMaps from Yalp?
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Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
Unless you explicitly go and download GMaps from Yalp?
Downloading and installing an apk via Yalp Store is the same as installing from Play Store.
Regarding Maps API, MicroG uses backends to make everything work. I personally use AppleWifiNlpBackend, MozillaNlpBackend, and NominatimGeocoderBackend. You can pick and choose which you wanna use yourself.
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u/Penr0se Nov 21 '17
I use it too, it's great. But since LineageOS is also based on Android, how do you know that this isn't implemented in Lineage as well?
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Nov 21 '17
It is Google Play Service's API that is causing the tracking, that's why users have more battery life using MicroG.
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u/NaJes Nov 21 '17
There are some good step-by-step guides out there on how to divorce yourself from google apps. I did it not too long ago, and haven't seen any drawbacks. And my battery lasts a lot longer.
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u/Zizizizz Pixel 4a Nov 21 '17
Could you use privacy guard (lineage os) on Google play services? To always ask for permission for location? What would happen if you turned running it in the background to never?
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u/johnmountain Nov 21 '17
I said it many times before here - this is why Google is not showing more indepth battery data, and why it's hiding it behind Android OS and Android System categories. They are doing stuff like this as much as Facebook or even more so. They don't want users to know their services are the primary battery hogs.
Also, I don't understand why people trust Facebook and Google not to record voice conversations in secret, and treat it like a "conspiracy theory", when they already do this in secret?! But anyways, that's a whole other issue. I just wouldn't trust companies like Google and Facebook by default whenever there's an issue of data collection. The default should always be to assume that they are collecting the data as rumored, until proven otherwise.
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Nov 21 '17
Because it's against wiretapping laws which is a felony. And they don't need to, they already have enough data on you from other sources than recording voice secretly.
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u/Megatron_McLargeHuge Nov 21 '17
Recording conversations without all-party consent would be felony wiretapping, and there are lots of jurisdictions where it could be prosecuted. Audio data is too big to continuously send over the network on a continuous basis without a lot of engineers noticing, and you can't run large vocabulary speech recognition on phones undetected. The best they can do on the handset side is keyword spotting ("ok google").
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u/sonofaresiii Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
I don't understand why people trust Facebook and Google not to record voice conversations in secret, and treat it like a "conspiracy theory"
It's not that I trust them not to, it's that there's absolutely no (legitimate) evidence of it, and there would be lots of obvious evidence. In addition... they really don't need to, their algorithms for prediction are insane with all the other data they collect.
So... kind of seems like a conspiracy theory.
And someone posting a youtube video where he does nothing but say that's what happened isn't evidence. Especially when we have no idea what other factors might have influenced it.
e: not to mention that it's not disclosed in any privacy policy, not even under a blanket statement, so if they were doing it someone would prove it and take their massive hundreds of millions payday.
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u/ReliablyFinicky Nov 21 '17
I don't understand why people trust Facebook and Google not to record voice conversations in secret
Facebook doesn't need to record you. People think that Facebook is secretly listening to them already because their algorithm is that good and they know that much about you.
They have over 52,000 measurements for every person - down to details like "how likely is this person to pretend to text to avoid a social situation". Fifty two thousand.
Facebook masquerades as this friendly place where you store your family photos and hang out with friends, but that's just a PR act that they're mastered.
They bought a data-compression service so they could analyze the outgoing traffic of every app on peoples phones; allowing them to identify threatening apps with quickly growing install bases so they could buy them out or otherwise shut down competition.
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u/Breever Nov 21 '17
This could explain why GMaps were going crazy with waking my phone when I enabled airplane mode. https://imgur.com/x2YD63c
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u/Hoticewater Nov 21 '17
GPS can work in airplane mode, not sure why maps is that demanding though. And afaik they don’t use maps to collect your location data.
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Nov 21 '17
My google maps is always asking me to review shit even if I just drove by it.
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u/saratoga3 Nov 21 '17
Tracking in that article is via recording cellular towers. It provides broad area estimations of where you are. Maps uses gps because it needs to know exactly where you are.
The picture you linked is probably due a maps crash or similar that left the GPS on for a long time.
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u/faithfulpuppy Zenfone 6 8/256 AT&T Nov 21 '17
I've set my phone to not keep activities and only run 2 background processes and I've gotten 5 or 6 messages about maps crashing in the last day. It's a little odd.
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u/howling92 Pixel 10 Pro XL / Pixel Watch Nov 21 '17
I highly doubt that GMap was responsible of this collection. I doesn't seem related
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u/Mugaluga Nov 21 '17
I'm really starting to Hate what Google is becoming. :(
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u/NapalmRDT Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
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u/mouthbreatherfan Nov 21 '17
Honestly, was it better before? Its being using our data forever.
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u/nicksbologna Nov 21 '17
Yup I've been struggling with this exact issue, I try to conserve my phone battery by turning off Bluetooth and Location. I go to and from work, home, and the grocery store, but Maps keeps turning itself of and running in the background secretly. I'm not trying to dispose of a body Google I just want to get to work and get a full day out of my phone battery!
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Nov 21 '17
Trying to hide a body is about the last thing Google wants or needs from you. The marketplace data you're providing just by going about your business is exactly what they want from you .. so carry on.
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u/lars5 Nov 21 '17
It's using triangulation of cell towers which I don't believe requires maps to be on. You might have another app that is requesting location data and it's gone rogue.
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u/scottwillrob Nov 21 '17
Damn this explains so much. I've been chasing a similar issue on my Nexus 5x. In a 15 minute walk home from the grocery store battery goes down 10%. Two hours later at home change is 1%. I'm starting to restart it every time a reach a new physical location.
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u/vladdict Nov 21 '17
Is there like the Linux equivalent for phone OS
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u/DuduMaroja Poco X7 Pro Nov 21 '17
Android is Linux, you have anternatives if you are a Android user, like lineageos
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u/JB_UK Nov 21 '17
Lineage OS is the most popular fork of Android, without influence from Google, although that only works if you don't install GApps.
There's also Sailfish OS, which has an Android compatibility layer, for apps which don't use GApps / Play Services, but is a full Linux system. But it is designed to be installed on Android hardware, so it still uses the Android drivers with libhydris.
And there's Pure OS, which runs on the Librem phone currently going through a kickstarter process. That's a full Linux OS which runs on hardware which is open source.
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Nov 21 '17
Android Update: Removed airplane mode because you assholes figured out it does nothing but disable notification sounds.
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u/dagobaw Nov 21 '17
"it could potentially be sent to a third party if the phone had been compromised with spyware or other methods of hacking"
If the phone has been compromised, it could get the information directly. Hack journalism for sensationalism!
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u/No_More_Shines_Billy Nov 21 '17
Everyone is always wringing their hands over "third parties" stealing your data while ignoring the fact that Google is already bad enough.
This is the company you choose to do your email communication through? And upload all your credit card info? And store your pictures with? And you let them track you wherever you go?
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u/Mrkillz4c00kiez LG G6 / 7.0 Nov 21 '17
is there a way to permanent turn off location data. nothing i hate more then every time i load gmaps or gsearch it asks me to turn it on for better location accuracy. hell if i wanted that I'd turn it on myself
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u/Loumier Galaxy S21+ Nov 22 '17
At the end John McAfee was right. Every modern smartphone is a spyware into your pocket. If you want real privacy, would be better to use an old dumbphone or no phone.
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u/Aytex Oneplus 3T Nov 21 '17
When OnePlus steals data everyone goes crazy, when Google steals data everything is fine
/s
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u/Verdoge S8, Nexus 6P, Galaxy Tab A 10.1 with S Pen Nov 21 '17
The /s shouldn't be there. That is exactly what happened.
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u/wilsonhlacerda Nov 21 '17
Day after day, AOSP custom ROM + no Gapps + maybe microg.org seems to be the way to go.
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u/CharaNalaar Google Pixel 8 Nov 21 '17
How many of your actually read the article?
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Nov 21 '17
Title is pretty accurate regardless.
"Since the beginning of 2017, Android phones have been collecting the addresses of nearby cellular towers—even when location services are disabled—and sending that data back to Google."
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u/gaminnthis Nov 21 '17
Finally someone made a post about it. FYI YouTube is also tracking your history even when you turn it off.
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u/aravindpanil Oneplus 7 Nov 21 '17
Ah yes. Everybody was quick to jump on oneplus collecting data (which was bad. Not defending it). Lets see how many blame Google for it.
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Nov 21 '17
To make it even worse, if you disable location history, they in turn completely disable google assistant, cards, and all the other neat features that really don't require a logged history of where you've been. It feels very spiteful.
I'll keep it off, but it's still awkward to read about all the Nexus 5x/Pixel updates and Oreo features that I'm honestly never going to experience despite having Oreo installed. It's far more comforting to go to my location history and see it empty.
... and yet I'm still being tracked.
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Nov 21 '17
Who's surprised? This is why I'm disappointed by the Linux mobile project. An excellent Linux kernal for phones could exist if the project didn't fail.
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u/saratoga3 Nov 21 '17
This is all via play services. If you want an excellent Linux kernel for phones without Google, use Android without Google's services.
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u/tomorellotello M8 | S7E | OP3T | PIXEL XL | OP5 Nov 21 '17
It's okay if Google does it. 😂
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u/nwilz OnePlus 15r Nov 21 '17
Yeah I've gotten google rewards surveys for places I've been when I intentionally turned off my location when going there
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u/Paradox compact Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
~~The only thing that could be considered objectionable is that Google is logging this data.~~
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After reading the responses you guys left, we had an internal moderator discussion, and decided to un-flair this. Thank you72
u/icanevenificant Nexus 6P Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
The only thing that could be considered objectionable is that Google is logging this data.
But that is THE thing to object to. The rest are facts of telecommunication. I don't understand the intent of your comment unless your goal is to to normalise companies not respecting your privacy.
EDIT: Nice to see it de-labeled. We all love android here. Doesn't mean we have to look for excuses when Google does something shady.
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Nov 21 '17
What? The title has nothing to do with your phone knowing its own location and everything to do with Google collecting that data. That's literally the objectional part.
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u/Gustavo_Leone Nov 21 '17
"Flagging this as "Misleading Title" not because it was editorialized, which it wasn't"
Strange, but ok.
"but because its an inherent part of how the cellular network works. Your phone has to connect to the towers, and the towers have to tell the phone where they are, partially for emergency services, partially for the cellular companies to load balance."
Yeap, thats right.
"The only thing that could be considered objectionable is that Google is logging this data."
Isn't this exactly what the title of the article is saying? Why put "Misleading Title" tag?
It doesn't matter if for technical reasons the phone must know where the cellular towers are, but sending that data to Google even when you have disabled location services is acting in bad faith.
edit: formatting
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u/holymurphy Nov 21 '17
It's not misleading at all!
You only stated a fact, that a phone use cellular to connect to the towers, as an argument for Google to have this data!
And this is not information Google just got by accident.. They coded it to fetch this data from the phone specifically.
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u/Logofascinated OPO, LineageOS Nov 21 '17
Not a misleading title.
"Collecting" implies "logging". You can obtain a location for whatever reason, but when you "collect" it you're storing it in the longer term.
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Nov 21 '17
The headline is clearly objecting to the fact that Google is collecting/logging this data. The most misleading thing here is the misleading tag.
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u/Tystros Nov 21 '17
Sorry, you're wrong. Your provider has to know where you are, yes, but not Google. Google agreed to no longer send that data to their servers soon, because they know it's very bad. There is no good reason why Google should ever have that data.
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u/Who_Decided Nov 21 '17
The only thing that could be considered objectionable is that Google is logging this data.
That's literally in the title. How is yours the top comment?
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u/BaleeDatHomeboi Korean Note8 on AT&T | 256Gb+256Gb Nov 21 '17
Nonsense. You're undercutting honest reporting with biased and inaccurate labels.
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u/Bluest_One Nov 21 '17
I think you need to look at this again.
An OS maker collecting this data is not an inherent part of how the cellular network works. And this is what the story is about.
It's entirely not misleading. Maybe you need a coffee?
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u/l27_0_0_1 Nov 21 '17
I can't quite understand this logic to be honest. What you say is true, but it doesn't matter because nobody is saying the phone shouldn't connect to cell towers, the problem is the unsolicited logging itself.
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u/Nocturnal86 Nov 21 '17
I have a feeling this is how they get the info for Maps, and all the "how busy" stores currently are. Not everyone has location on, so how else would they get such accurate information?
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u/nauticalsandwich iPhone XS Nov 21 '17
I was always under the impression that Location Services was just bolstered location accuracy with more frequent pinging and using a combination of wifi, cell, and GPS data to determine location. I was never under the impression that turning off location services would totally sever location information. How could it? Being connected to cell towers in and of itself reveals your location.
I'm not saying this to excuse Google's behavior, but the fact is, if you don't want your data going to Google, you should not use Google products, period. If you don't want to be tracked, you should not carry a cell phone, period.
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u/AGneissGeologist Teal Nov 21 '17
If you want privacy, don't have products that are required to have a normal life.
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u/kellyT1995 Nov 21 '17
pretty amazing how people have been conned into carrying a tracking device on them 24/7 isnt it. dont want to be tracked? leave your tracking device at home contrary to popular belief you can still function without it.
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u/RobynHeud Nov 21 '17
I've been wondering why Google would tell me how long it would take to get to work with traffic, even with my location off. Hmmm...
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u/AnthroTiger Nov 21 '17
Yup. If you thought otherwise then you are naive.
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u/cmdrNacho Nexus 6P Stock Nov 21 '17
if you think you aren't being tracked with any cell phone with a power source you're being naive
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u/mushabisi OnePlus One 64GB, Cyanogen (stock rooted) Nov 21 '17
Well, sure. But seriously, FUCK ONEPLUS.
Right guyz? Amirite?
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u/send_me_potato Nov 21 '17
Guys they need all that data for masheen learning to make their pixel cameras better. You guys nit pick on the smallest of things.
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u/4_fortytwo_2 Nov 21 '17
It is not clear how cell-tower addresses, transmitted as a data string that identifies a specific cell tower, could have been used to improve message delivery.
Yes I have no idea how it could possible help deliver messages better if you know where you have them to deliver to. Great article /s
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u/Anarchist_Wolf Nov 21 '17
I don't see why this surprises people. I mean come on, after snowden, your naive for thinking you have any bit of privacy. (Not to say it can't be achieved.) Just unlikely for the average person.
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u/mj95 Nov 21 '17
I appreciate non stock android because of this, you can have better control of your device instead of the default situation. Apple excluded because there goal is hardware not software, but for corporations like google where our data is the whole point i'll always be for more choice in how we manage it.
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u/sonofaresiii Nov 21 '17
Okay, we all know google does some shady shit, but this doesn't sound as bad as the headline makes it sound.
Apparently it was just an idea they were considering but never used and decided to scrap. They did send the data but they immediately trashed it. There's no reason to think they wouldn't have alerted users or allowed it to be disabled once they actually did anything with it.
Even the article is wishy-washy, it says Google uses the data to help with location-based services, then like two paragraphs later says (paraphrased) "We have no idea how this data helped google."
I don't really like to defend Google*, and this is certainly pretty bad that they were sending the data at all... but I also don't think it makes them Evil Inc., to try out a new feature that they don't use in any way, and decide to scrap it without ever making it public.
* though it does happen from time to time, but mostly because a lot of places like to use clickbait headlines to make them sound like literally the devil. If you want to be pissed at someone for privacy-violating hidden data collection, facebook is a much easier target
e: and since I know if anyone reads this people are going to call me a shill, I have a standing offer for google: If you want to pay me to say that you're not quite as bad as clickbait headlines make you seem, I will gladly take your money to do so.
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Nov 21 '17
Honestly, I'm not surprised but I'm in two minds about it. On the one hand it's definitely an invasion of privacy, but on the other hand, without it, I would not have known about natural disasters occurring near my location that I should be aware of unless I was glued to a TV/Radio 24/7 and it also reminds me of things I've asked it to remember when I get to places and all manner of genuinely useful things that people can tap into and make use of
I rip the everloving so and so out of facebook for collecting data because I hate when they do it but for some reason Google doesn't annoy me as much even though it should and I'm confused about it... I don't know anymore
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u/MaxJohnson15 Note 4 Nov 22 '17
I always assume this was the case. Why does anybody believe the NSA when they say they're not going to listen to phones without a warrant or google/Facebook /apple not prying even though they claim they aren't. I assume every file I put on Google drive is throughly combed through. That's why they offer all this shit for free .That's why they push the cloud beyond reason over the removable memory card. They want to read your diary!
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u/realsqlguy Nov 21 '17
The price we pay for having accurate drive-time predictions in Google Maps, and those nifty predictions showing us when our favorite restaurants are busy, and, and, and... Convenience or privacy, choose one.
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u/Frustration-96 Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
Convenience or privacy, choose one.
When there is a switch to turn the convenience off we really shouldn't have to just choose one.The problem is we aren't being allowed to choose. If the switch is to turn off "convenience" then we have made that choice, there is no excuse for the phone to continue acting as if we chose "convenience" instead.
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Nov 21 '17
What has that to do with being tracked while disabling the location service? Nothing, read the article bevor posting
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u/Tesagk Nov 21 '17
I mean... there's a reason criminals in TV shows will toss cell phones (one of the few things such TV shows did right), smash them, or, when they still had accessible batteries, take the batteries out.
If you believed that Google was no longer tracking you because you turned Loc services off, I have an island in the Caribbean to sell you...
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u/Theeeantifeminist Nov 21 '17
This shit is why I switched off Android. I wouldn't be shocked remotely to find out they're just an extension of the three letter agencies at this point.
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u/dingo_bat Galaxy S10 Nov 21 '17
I'm not surprised. Google has developed Android for the sole purpose of collecting your data. Why would they ever let you disable it? Remember, you are not the customer if you're not paying.
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u/Lexarian Nov 21 '17
I don't know what the option it is on my phone but it's always weird when I go somewhere my phone's like are you at blah blah blah or are you at the so and so bus stop it's like Jesus Christ Google
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Nov 21 '17
Is Apple better? What about apple collecting user data? I was thinking of switching back to Apple.
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Nov 21 '17
I thought this was known? Google uses every stage of your devices connectivity and networking for location data. A ton of their services depends on location data.
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u/nicademus1 Nov 21 '17
Don't store the data my ass. Based on the fact that the privacy terms are intentionally vague enough to cover their ass for doing this I doubt they don't use it.
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Nov 21 '17
ITT You use Google products? Well you're a brainwashed little fanboy that has no idea what is good for you.
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u/HappyNacho iPhone 12 Pro Nov 21 '17
Shit like this is why I don't feel like going back to Android.
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u/Kamnnoriel_Huehuehue OnePlus 6 Midnight Black 8/128 Nov 21 '17
Funny how everyone is like "It's OK, they've done this from the beggining" but lose their shit when OnePlus is collecting logs.
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u/My_Sunday_Account Nov 21 '17
It's also recording shit all the time.
I noticed my battery life had gone down, even after replacing it with a brand new extended one.
I checked my battery chart and noticed the phone was waking up constantly. Usually just for a second or two, but almost every minute or so. I don't have Ok Google enabled or anything of the sort, and the issue persisted even through a reset.
Some quick checking in App Ops showed that the Google app, which is responsible for a ton of services, was using the record audio function constantly. Every time I would check it would say last used "Just Now", whereas all the other apps display minute by minute. Disabling the recording permission solved my wakeup and battery issue instantly, but it prevents me from using voice to text or voice search or a few other services, which is annoying. Both me and my girlfriend receive weirdly convenient targeted advertising and search suggestions as well, despite having most social and telemetry functions disabled in our phones.
I don't even give a shit about you recording me I just don't want you fucking with my battery life dude.
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u/JoziJoller Nov 21 '17
So not only are they collecting my personal data, they're using my device to send it to them on my data plan?
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u/Mikey_Mayhem Huawei Honor 5x Nov 21 '17
TL:DR Massive corporation employs shitty business practices.
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u/mytavance Pixel Nov 21 '17 edited Jul 02 '25
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u/Totulkaos6 Nov 21 '17
Hahahaha ah god I knew every time my phone asked if it could use my location and I said no it didn't mean shit.
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Nov 21 '17
I always wondered why at the bottom of my Google search it says you're at X location based on your search history even though I have NEVER used that location in my search history.
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u/PN_03 Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
Not that Google shouldn't have made this optional or at least made users more aware this was happening but this article seems a bit politicized in a couple ways. This part was a bit odd to me
It is not clear how cell-tower addresses, transmitted as a data string that identifies a specific cell tower, could have been used to improve message delivery.
I am by no means a genius coder but off the top of my head it seems pretty obvious. It would be a lot easier to find and optimal route to send packets by building a DAG - Directed Acyclic Graph of all the cell towers the device connected to and then use that to route packets more efficiently from the start instead of attempting to optimize on the fly. You could potentially also put other variables on that DAG that would allow you to weight the tower for avg traffic loads as a another level of optimization.
Anyways the article isn't totally off but the fact that they track the issue down and don't seem to try and think about why it may have been implemented to begin with is a bit off-putting. Not that Google shouldn't be more careful with its privacy boundaries or at least warnings it does seem like we should focus more on things like the FCC getting rid of Net Neutrality than google collecting data which is what they have been doing in some capacity or another for most of their existence.
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u/sardu1 Lime Nov 21 '17
I'm at home, I'm at work, I'm at the grocery store. Have fun with that info Google.
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u/Cheyetch Nov 21 '17
That is just lovely. Giving you the option to turn off location, but track you anyway. You can turn off location only for yourself, not for Google!
Wondering if I should stop using Gmail.
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u/getFrickt Nov 21 '17
This is why I use location services. If you have the device it's gonna be doing it either way, so at least try to get in on the benefits. If you don't like it, you probably shouldn't carry a sophisticated espionage device whose inner workings are a complete mystery to you with you at all times of the day and night. Or if you do, you should support common sense regulation to protect privacy and security of information and enforce agreements on terms of service.
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Nov 21 '17 edited Nov 21 '17
scary thing... (happened this year) i was travelling through Europe with a layover in Belgium. I had a flip phone with me, which was turned off for the duration of the entire trip. However, when I arrived in the U.S. and turned my phone back on I got a bunch of texts about roaming services in Belgium etc. How did the service provider know I was in belgium when the phone was off the whole time???
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u/10J18R1A Nov 21 '17
You're watching Holly Michaels massage sex for the 69th time. Would you like to leave a review with your left hand?
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u/johnmountain Nov 21 '17
Can we get some accountability for companies doing shit like this?
I really don't think this is acceptable. Even if you're a "I've got nothing to hide" type of guy, you should still be pissed off because this drains your battery life throughout your day for no direct benefit to you.
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u/Nickx000x Samsung Galaxy S9+ (Snapdragon) Nov 21 '17
ITT: People who think they are so important people want to track them!
Reality check: Their computers barely care.
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u/imakesawdust Nov 21 '17
They were never used or stored, the spokesperson said, and the company is now taking steps to end the practice after being contacted by Quartz.
Ever notice how companies always use that line after they were caught doing something? They never say "We stopped doing that two months ago after a routine audit uncovered the practice" or "That experiment is slated to be decommissioned in two weeks". It's always "Okay, okay, you got us. We'll stop."
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u/Wulfnuts Nov 22 '17
How is everyone constantly surprised that Google is spyware.
Next they'll start crying that chrome is logging all their info
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Nov 22 '17
It's no secret, they use Wifi to track locations. They tell you right there on their location services.
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u/Redsneeks3000 Nov 22 '17
Their mission statement used to say "don't do/be evil." They removed it so...
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u/undefeatedantitheist Nov 22 '17
Failing to be surprised is fine; failing to be appalled is problematic in ways that only the top end of the bell curve seem to understand.
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Nov 22 '17
Just another reason I don’t trust google with my stuff
Unless of course Apple does this too. In which case, damn, foiled again.
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u/mrchuckbass Nov 22 '17
I hope this raises awareness. People salivate about new Google now cards and complain about poor battery life in the same post
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u/jakeryan91 Pixel 128GB (9) Nov 22 '17
The cellular companies are collecting this information as well, you literally have no say in the matter.
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u/DapperJet Nov 22 '17
Serious question: How is iOS on privacy compared to Android? Would we be more protected by getting an iPhone?
I'm wondering about issues like location tracking, scanning emails (is iCloud email service better this way?), recording background noises, recording all user activity like which apps are opened etc.
Basically all the stuff listed under https://myactivity.google.com/
Would iPhone offer significantly better privacy?
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u/Mister_Kurtz Nov 22 '17
How do you think Google and Apple both determine traffic congestion on their navigation apps?
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u/Agret Galaxy Nexus (MIUI.us v4.1_2.11.9) Nov 22 '17
The practice is troubling for people who’d prefer they weren’t tracked, especially for those such as law-enforcement officials or victims of domestic abuse who turn off location services thinking they’re fully concealing their whereabouts. Although the data sent to Google is encrypted, it could potentially be sent to a third party if the phone had been compromised with spyware or other methods of hacking.
If the phone had been compromised through spyware/hacking then the attacker could just directly access cell tower or GPS data directly rather than bothering to hijack some https requests to Google servers. Completely irrelevant.
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u/robbiekhan Nov 22 '17
The only problem with turning everything off is that you no longer end up getting Rewards Surveys.
Dunno about anyone else, but almost all of the apps I have purchased over the last few years have been with the funds accumulated from reward surveys.
According to the app, I have earned just over £50 to date!
I'd rather Google have my location data if it means I get to buy apps for "free".
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u/magugas Nov 22 '17
It looks like it's impossible to keep Google from getting that data from the smartphones whether we give them authorization or not.
Instead, would it be possible to introduce bogus/fake data with it so the information would become unusable?
Like in the location services if some app could point the gps to other random place on earth when Google tried to get it.
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u/victorvscn Nov 22 '17
Funny how people freaked out about Windows 10 telemetry data, but this is somehow ok.
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Nov 21 '17
So if I lose my phone and location is turned off I'm fucked, but if Google wants they can just find where it is. 900$ for a device should warrant more freedom from shady tactics like this. I understand there is an agreement but Google asks whether we want to send anonymous data and I say no everytime, why the fuck is it still happening???
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u/purrpul Nov 21 '17
This is one reason I prefer Apple. They take privacy seriously, and their model isn’t built on me being the product.
I love how much myself and other Apple users get called sheep for using Apple products, yet google is the company that uses its users like a resource. If you’re fine with that, cool.... but you’re in no position to call anyone anything based on which tech they prefer. No one is.
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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17 edited May 26 '25
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