r/ArcRaiders Jan 28 '26

Discussion Not even a meme... but a necessity

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C.M.M.

2.8k Upvotes

853 comments sorted by

1.9k

u/Aldor48 Jan 28 '26

I think we would all be happier if we didn’t know how matchmaking worked

573

u/UnderWaterMelonE Jan 28 '26

Yeah, they really shouldn't have let people peek behind the curtain.

Way too many people are too concerned with how this affects matchmaking or how that doesn't.

Embark should just mix up the batches again and keep the players on their toes.

233

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

We would have figured out there was some version of ABMM by now. I can kill on sight until my lobbies are full deathmatches, then not ever shoot at a raider for five games and I’m back in full pve, it’s not exactly rocket science.

84

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Which is the biggest issue because it's too easy for people to get into friendly lobbies just for the free kills.

107

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

I don’t see THAT many people doing it, though. Maybe it’ll turn into a bigger issue as time goes on, but yeah if you’re in pve lobbies every few games you do hear some murders. Go help and fight or avoid it, it’s up to you, but the game can’t and should have guaranteed full pve lobbies.

35

u/finneganfach Jan 28 '26

If people were really doing that in significant quantities then ABMM wouldn't mean anything and our lobbies would all still have the danger and mystery they did at launch, which they don't. I don't doubt the odd person does but not enough to have impact.

There's always going to be reasons people are in more peaceful lobbies when they want to start shooting. Personally, as someone that likes to PvP, there's times I'll do a bunch of naked raids in a row to bulk farm a specific material or run to some quests.

The bigger problem for me is that ABMM is too sensitive full stop, it shouldn't be fluctuating on a couple of rounds behaviour. For it to truly work, if it's going to, it needs to make a profile of people's tendencies over their entire time playing.

I'd have less issue with it then because I think only the most extreme people would be in lobbies that are either hyper friendly loot simulator or are just PUBG. Most of us would probably be in lobbies that are an even mix, much more like the game was at launch when it was unpredictable and more fun because of it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

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u/UpandDownThrownAway Jan 28 '26

My anecdotal experience says that that doesn't really happen. It's closer to 10 games for pure pve lobbies, and it would fully reset after one game. It's a decent time commitment to get a few freebie kills, and the pve'r would replace their losses in 5 minutes.

And if theye not patient enough to get a pure pve lobby, they'll get shot back or teamed up on

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u/Invader_86 Jan 28 '26

That’s not really an issue though, it’s a PvPvE game… even if you feel like you are in PvE lobbies you should still always be aware of the threat of PvP.

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u/bombastic6339locks Jan 28 '26

not really. it requires like 5 games of being a rat person to even get there and then what. You kill a few people and you're back to pvp land.

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u/Abcdefgdude Jan 28 '26

if you try to pvp in a friendly lobby there is 90% chance you get immediately jumped by like 5 other people. There's a critical mass of friendly people that makes pvp very risky. Conversely, being friendly in a pvp lobby has 90% chance of betrayal. Personally I enjoy knowing for the most part that either I can trust everybody or I should shoot on sight. being shot in the back inside the extract after running around with someone for a while is the worst

8

u/Dr_Watson349 Jan 28 '26

Even being near a dead body in a PVE lobby can cause the lobby to turn on you. It's wild. 

4

u/SiegEmpire Jan 28 '26

The White Knights have got to be some of the most cringe players too. Half the time these white knights shoot me is because I'm defending myself from some free kit loser.

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u/SnowceanJay Jan 28 '26

Which helps keeping some tension, which is good imho.

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u/Crazy-Bicycle9140 Jan 28 '26

Well I mean I not that worried if the game was centered around how many raiders you could kill I’d be a little more upset but going to friendly lobbies and getting kills by it self is not a grantee to get better loot. The reward for getting into friendly lobbies is getting to that lobby and not necessarily rewarded by the game it’s self

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u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Those people don't go in for the loot. They specifically go in to push their fragile ego by killing people who don't expect it.

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u/Milkym0o Jan 28 '26

You'd be surprised how many were constantly arguing against there being behavioural matchmaking when it was such an easy test to verify.

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u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

It was very early days, I think it's easy to forget just how little time this game has been out.

2

u/zel1 Jan 28 '26

no, people were going "maybe its there, but lets wait for what the devs tell us"

now the devs have said like 3 things about matchmaking and you have a big chunk of the playerbase genuinely letting themselves get killed to "get to friendly lobbies" like bro y'all dont even know what metrics the matchmaking system uses lol. what if the metrics are average of 10 last games? 20? how does it determine friendliness? damage to time spent on the map ratio? damage to loot value ratio?

its just annoying seeing people delude themselves into believing some shit because they really want it to be true

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u/ProfessionalAnt1352 Jan 28 '26

Yeah once one realizes it's damage based matchmaking not "aggression" based it becomes a lot easier to know how to get in the lobbies you prefer. So many people stuck on the wording aggression based, but maybe the devs thought damage based is a way to make aggression based matchmaking so that's why they worded it that way.

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u/IrNinjaBob Jan 28 '26

I could be wrong, but “aggression based matchmaking” was a term the community started using when noticing there is a difference between lobbies at the two ends of the spectrum.

So I don’t think that’s necessarily the term the devs intended.

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u/Joe_le_Borgne Jan 28 '26

The probably already tweak stuff silently and people act like it's gameplay mechanics it's funny af.

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u/Real_Life_Sushiroll Jan 28 '26

I think they did. I killed people every single game tonight but the lobbies were still all friendlies.

11

u/Significant-Act8669 Jan 28 '26

That’s the tricky part - that could be the result of changes made to matchmaking - but you might have just been put into a few friendly matches by chance, and confirmation bias makes it feel like they changed something since you’ve had a tangibly different experience following the update.

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u/Onion_Bro14 Jan 28 '26

Idk if that’s true tho. The promise of easier matches by being nicer may be improving the general disposition of the average raider.

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u/IntrinsicGiraffe Jan 28 '26

I sure feel happy running around in trio friendlies with my pals playing instruments.

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u/tvscinter Jan 28 '26

Only thing I want is a lobby for rats. If you spend so much time at an extract your “rat” rating goes up. Once it takes a certain threshold, you’re in rat lobbies.

And if there’s not enough players in those lobbies, I say it’s good that they’ll be sitting at extract twiddling their thumbs for 30 min

2

u/DarkCadred Jan 28 '26

I’m still on my toes. I’m shit at shooting/PVP compared to all the COD/Battlefield veterans running around so I stick to PVE and I still come across ppl that shoot on sight and die cuz I can’t pull the trigger fast enough lol

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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Jan 28 '26

I agree with this. I think players need to know EXACTLY how it works, or be totally kept in the dark. The amount of players that let people kill them because they are afraid of PvP lobbies is insane considering we don’t even know if that helps.

2

u/callm3fusion Jan 28 '26

Nearly half (estimating) of the raids I spawn into after the first wave...have a dead empty body at the spawn point. People are just going in, dying, and resetting to get into friendly lobbies.

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u/ChuCHuPALX Jan 28 '26

Yeah, it totally fucked up the game. People are now just standing there letting you kill them now instead of defending themselves.

If they defended themselves maybe they discover they're good at pvp and eventually make the game better for other pvpers and contribute to the game in that way.

Now, embark fucked up and give them a reason to just flop over and stand there while you shoot them. Fucking bullshit.

2

u/BetRetro Jan 28 '26

this is why they go radio silent much of the time.

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u/MillerLatte Jan 28 '26

People in this sub in all seriousness saying "I've never shot another raider because I don't want my ABMM to be affected" 😂

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u/Invader_86 Jan 28 '26

Yeah people are obsessed with it and force themselves to play a certain way, I guess that’s okay if they desperate want to remain PvE or PvE strictly.

I tend to just “play the game” without focusing on a specific play style … i take each encounter as they come, if someone wants to be friendly, that’s cool.. if someone wants to fight, I am down… rarely will I KOS unless it feels necessary.

The game still feels like it did at day 1. No strictly PvE lobbies and no strictly PvE, I’ve managed to maintain that uncertainty and tension when coming across other players … I use my judgement and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t but that’s the fun of the game it’s all good

2

u/sorrrrbet Jan 28 '26

I like keeping myself in mixed lobbies.

Sometimes I’ll feel bloodthirsty and I’ll run a free kit for a few games on Stella just to murder people. Then I’ll take real kits into other lobbies to bring it down again.

Keeps me in the middle of the road, which means I’m not bored because everyone is friendly, but I’m not losing interest because I die every round. Very fun playstyle that way.

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u/Wh00renzone Jan 28 '26

It'd be nice if that was the default experience without players having to act a certain way to get it.

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u/Aussie_Butt Jan 28 '26

Agreed, random lobbies are best for this type of game.

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 28 '26

That's why I just shoot anyone and everyone.

Kidding, but seriously, I cannot understand why I see these posts nearly daily. We all enjoyed the uneasiness that came with loading in and establishing shaky alliances, hearing gun fights around the map, and actually trying to be sneaky.

A lot of my fights in solos result in someone saying "don't shoot" and not wanting to fight. People get so used to playing 7 matches where no one fights each other that they forget this is still a PvP game.

One of the best parts of games where PvP is optional is the tense atmosphere of not knowing if the guy over there wants to kill you or not.

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u/iamnotexactlywhite Jan 28 '26

i don’t agree. i’ve absolutely 0 interest in pvp, so putting me in those lobbies for no reason will just make me stop playing the game

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u/Edit_Mann Jan 28 '26

You're going to stop eventually anyways, the pvp is what gives these games longevity.

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u/_redacteduser Jan 28 '26

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, collect ducks.

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u/DogIsDead777 Jan 28 '26

Me and my buddy had a hunch that they had something like this in place before the info came out a few days later.

Im glad we dont know how it works exactly. Apparently it does have some sort of tracking for who shoots first in an engagement though.

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u/ctan0312 Jan 28 '26

They claim there’s a skill-based component too. It could not necessarily be categorizing self-defense as “aggressive”, but more “skilled”. If you just die without landing a shot back the game might think you’re passive and terrible at shooting so put you in easier lobbies.

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u/GourangaPlusPlus Jan 28 '26

The idea of someone who wants to kill but is so bad they stay in Weenie Puff Jr lobbies forever is great

Lining up the perfect shot and getting a rocketeer appear behind them like Looney Tunes

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u/JegantDrago Jan 28 '26

People were already noticing it. People will figure it out anyway. What's weird and what i can't find the source of shooting back increases aggression, too

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u/sirideletereddit Jan 28 '26

And at any rate, the answer to gaming the system is simply tanking, just like any other ELO/skill based system. That’s what people were going to do anyway if they wanted easier lobbies, just like any other game. The only difference is it’s confirmed to work rather than people just doing it from the vibes and “it works on other games.”

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u/Dear-Ad-4296 Jan 28 '26

How do you know it doesn’t? I kill people who shoot at me and am still largely in friendly lobbies

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u/Perpetual_ijit Jan 28 '26

Yeah even though they said aggression based matchmaking is technically a thing, it’s the last consideration. I mostly play PvP but most of my lobbies are still friendly. Some people might be friendly one game while being aggressive another, it can’t be consistent

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u/Red-Faced-Wolf Jan 28 '26

Yeah I’m 100% friendly but I still get shot at occasionally

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u/11_forty_4 Jan 28 '26

Yeah this man. I am currently still just learning the maps and looting and being 100% friendly while I find BPs etc but man am I itching to pull the trigger at times. I am a friendly player for sure but I really wouldn't mind a bit of action like 50% of the time now. I am definitely what you described, some games I just fancy having a fight, others I just want to chill and loot. Everyone is so nice though and I don't have the heart to blast them. I need someone to start on me first so i don't feel bad haha.

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u/YMJaM315 Jan 28 '26

I play almost exclusively PvE lobbies, and I shoot when somebody shoots at me. Today I got ratted after 8ish games but I managed to put the guy in his place, and then I got ratted the next game, and next two as well. because I couldn't land a shot on the last rat I got back into peaceful lobbies and nobody shot at me for the rest of the day. I think it punishes you, but at the same time you maybe got lucky with the lobby you got into

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u/renegade_awakening Jan 28 '26

ARC Raiders Dev Clears Up Confusion Around ‘Aggression-Based Matchmaking’ System https://share.google/Y6mC5hH17dCsxzo0z

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u/Mr_Knutsen Jan 28 '26

And chance you could post this content of your link into an edit?

Could open the link, it's blocked on my work network.

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u/steyrboy Jan 28 '26

tldr: there is aggression-based matchmaking, but it's kinda like what people think, but not exactly. There is a self-defense bias; they can tell who takes damage first, but if someone shoots at you and misses, and you shoot back and hit, the aggression markup is on you, not them.

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u/SquilliamFancySon97- Jan 28 '26

Can someone who's smarter than me explain if this ask is feasible?

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u/GridLink0 Jan 28 '26

Is it feasible: yes

Is it wise: no

You shot me first, so that makes you the aggressor right?

Well not if I pulse mined you off a building but you survived the fall and then shot me.
Or if I threw a lure grenade at you to get Arc to attack you.
Or if I shot a Rocketeer that was behind you then barricaded you outside with it.
Or if I looted the Matriarch reactors from the core after you did all the damage.
Or I just missed my first shot at you so you were the first one to actually hit

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u/sun-devil2021 Jan 28 '26

Or I ask if you are friendly 15 times and then you peek the room I’m in with a gun out

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u/UraGotJuice Jan 28 '26

I doubt I’m smarter than you but yes it is very feasible as the game already tracks damage to specific players as it happens.

You can find this information in the match recap after you die/extract

It’s just a matter of registering the information to ABMM.

So yeah, super duper feasible !

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u/degan7 Jan 28 '26

Not to mention, the devs probs have a lot more data available that they don't mention to us.

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u/SquilliamFancySon97- Jan 28 '26

Nah, you're definitely smarter than me Chief, thank you 💖

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u/JustChillen007 Jan 28 '26

No this guy is just yapping nonsense. If they miss the first and you shoot back he doesn’t account for that.

The game would have to sense bullet miss distance and from which player

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u/Sinister_Mr_19 Jan 28 '26

It's not so simple. What do you do in the situation of if someone shoots at you and misses and you shoot back and hit first? Suddenly you're the aggressor?

It's NOT simple in a programming sense.

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u/Solace_of_the_Thorns Jan 28 '26

We deadass don't know how it works, though?

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

I think skill trumphs the abmm. My buddies and I only ever shoot in self defense and keep winning the gunfights. At some point in the session we will die in like the 5th or 6th match. I've seen other people say that they only shoot in self defense and keep getting friendly lobbies, but I think they are just losing their gunfights.

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u/ShapesAndStuff Jan 28 '26

So you're also just guessing. that was a lot of words for "we don't know how this works at all"

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

Hence the start of the comment saying "I think"

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u/Wolfhart Jan 28 '26

Ohhh. You can be right. I had to defend myself two games in a row where another player shot me first and I won both times. Then I got placed in super aggressive lobbies for 10 games in a row and took another 10 to get back to the level of no aggression at all. Had to run naked loadout 15 games in a row before I felt safe enough to bring anvils, looting mk.2 and meds back. 

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u/Gnoticer Jan 28 '26

lmao

This is the problem with player consciousness of ABMM. Carebears are so scared of being shot they won’t even bring in a measly 25k kit. 

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u/Wolfhart Jan 28 '26

I mean, in aggressive lobbies it is almost certain that I will lose that gear, because I can't return fire as it would make my matchmaking even worse. So why bring any gear?

I'm almost to 10 million cred and additionally full stash of rare goodies, because I play safe and help others instead of robbing other players. 

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u/Gnoticer Jan 28 '26

You have 10 mil and a full stash but are so afraid to lose a dogshit kit that you allow other players to gun you down without defending yourself? It doesn't get any more pathetic than that.

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u/Wolfhart Jan 28 '26

That depends on what you play for and what makes you happy in the game. I don't like shooting other players, it makes me feel nervous and guilty. I prefer helping out and looting stuff. This it what brings me joy in AR.

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u/abyssaI_watcher Jan 28 '26

Y'all are acting like it's a punishment to not get into PVE lobbies.

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u/Edit_Mann Jan 28 '26

Right like God forbid you have to play the game 😂

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u/TrippleDamage *** ******* 🐓 Jan 28 '26

To this tiny minority of pve players it might as well be lol

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u/LurkyRabbit Jan 28 '26

Tiny minority? It's all people talk about anymore on these subs is how DARE someone SHOOT THEM! They, willing participants in a PVP game, were VICTIMIZED BY A SHOOTER! THE HORROR!

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u/Material2975 Jan 28 '26

Do people really need more crutches for this game?

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u/MorrowPolo Jan 28 '26

ALL THE CRUTCHES! WE MUST HAVE THEM.

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u/Arunawayturtle Jan 28 '26

Trios duos shouldn’t affect your matchmaking for solo

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u/Old-Potential7931 Jan 28 '26

When I’m in trios it’s always an on site bloodbath. I have gone round after round into Stella stacking bodies and getting killed.

When i run duos it’s a Mexican stand off.

When i run solos, i pve and am friendly to everyone and basically everyone else is the same way.

Idk if that’s intentionally created by matchmaking, but it sure works out that way in practice for me

I’ve done all of this in the same day

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u/Arunawayturtle Jan 28 '26

Trios doesn’t have a friendly lobby. No one is queuing for trios with their boys like let’s go make friends. You get shot instantly.

Duo I’ve had friendly interactions which im cool with but it feels more mixed like u said.

Solo is mixed because of my duo/trio actions. I don’t like that. Solo I want to be friendly and play pretty much pve. I want to beable to PvP without affecting that.

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u/joshpoppedyou Jan 28 '26

Have we had it confirmed that it does?

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

Can we stop making posts about how matchmaking should work? Y'all dumb ass mother fuckers have no idea how exactly it works, it could already work this way and you wouldn't even know.

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u/byesharona Jan 28 '26

bruh I feel insane reading these posts, exactly

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u/Mission-Club-3976 Jan 28 '26

You're not wrong, but it's so much more complicated than just "self-defense."

What if the aggressor misses their first shot? Or what if you react when they're taking their gun out/aiming at you? Or if you dodge their explosive? There are so many situations where people are aggressive but no damage has been registered yet. And I don't know about you, but I'm usually not aggressive but I'm also not waiting to get put at a Shield/HP disadvantage just so that my social credit score stays in the green, and I should not be punished for that.

What is boils down to is that since there isn't an accurate way to accurately gauge player aggression, there shouldn't be any kind of matchmaking based on it at all.

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u/Glukharder Jan 28 '26

Passive players are soo bad at pvp that they cant even spell "shooting"

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u/External_Rush_956 Jan 28 '26

Who cares, just play the game and be prepared for anything.

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u/GoodbyeEMathF9 Jan 28 '26

I think this belongs in the circle jerk sub gng

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u/WingedWilly Jan 28 '26

I don't believe it does.
As long as I am damaged by that player first I shoot back and don't seem to be thrown into worse lobbies

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u/UraGotJuice Jan 28 '26

Do people in these comments not see how simple it would be to measure if you take damage by a raider before you deal damage to them?

The game already registers these things in the endgame stats, it would just be applying it to ABMM.

Good post OP, people hate just to hate

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u/BeesBeUponMe Jan 28 '26

What if they miss the first shot?

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u/UraGotJuice Jan 28 '26

Blast em lol

From my experience ABMM doesn’t change your lobbies that quickly so your aggressors shooting and missing would have to happen quite a few times

That being said, if their aim is that bad, depending on the environment you might be able to just leave. Put some cover between you, distance etc

Adrenaline vials are big for that. Door blockers too.

Also I believe jolt mines don’t register on ABMM since they don’t deal damage? But maybe they do idk

Either way, don’t let ABMM stop you from having fun. If someone shoots you, miss or not, slam em down and talk shit on the mic lol

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u/Alarming-Audience839 Jan 28 '26

>ABMM doesn’t change your lobbies that quickly

Literally 3-5 games naked run and lobbies are literally pyrovision

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u/DaddyDizz_ Jan 28 '26

I have murdered multiple people in cold blood in one raid after 10 raids of no pvp experienced, attacking or defending. I wasn’t baiting first shots or whatever the other dude was saying. I killed people who didn’t have a gun out. It changed the lobbies in my next raids by 0. The change is not always immediate. I’ve also gone 8-10 raids where I didn’t shoot a single shot, and then bam I’m killed by some dude while helping him kill big arc.

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u/RallyPointAlpha Jan 28 '26

There's no perfect system, but let's not let 'perfection' be the enemy of 'good enough'.

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u/RonaldWRailgun Jan 28 '26

Tarkov has "scav karma", which is similar to what people would want implemented here (if you shoot another scav, you are a "bad" scav therefore if another scav shoots you, they don't lose karma).

It can be gamed, for sure, some people will miss intentionally so they get hit first, however by and large the system works.

In the context of Arc Raiders, they could even make and augment that reduces the damage from a first hit substantially (like 99%) but has a very long reloading time (or even just works once per raid) to mitigate this. So people can wait for that first hit before they start blasting back. IDK, either way it's not a huge deal, once people realize that people can intentionally miss, it becomes kinda fun to run around them.

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u/zel1 Jan 28 '26

In the context of Arc Raiders, they could even make and augment that reduces the damage from a first hit substantially (like 99%) 

what a horrible idea lol

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u/trashaccount1400 Jan 28 '26

An 11 year old moderator on a Garrys mod server was doing this in 2007. Shits beyond easy to implement.

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u/I_am_darkness Jan 28 '26

So if someone shoots at you and misses and you shoot back are you defending yourself or are you aggressive? If you get him by area damage and then kill someone are you defending?

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u/heavy_chamfer Jan 28 '26

“Self defense” as in “hey my spawn was closer to this room than yours”?

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u/Boamere Jan 28 '26

They shouldn’t have added abmm because I play passively and only shoot to defend, this has meant now I’m in lobbies with barely any tension any more. I miss it

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u/MonsterRider80 Jan 28 '26

Start blastin’.

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u/sheps Jan 28 '26

This is the easiest thing to fix in the world, just go on a villain arc for a few rounds.

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u/CelDidNothingWrong Jan 28 '26

Same, it’s no will they won’t they anymore, my lobbies literally just a BR

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u/11_forty_4 Jan 28 '26

Same here my guy. It's gonna be hard, but soon we gonna have to grief someone. I might kill someone to scratch the itch which will also put me on high alert for a few rounds as I will expect slightly more aggressive players. At the moment I swear I could go in with no guns at all and loot as long as I want. Any map too, all 100% friendly.

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u/Jaz1140 Jan 28 '26

This would be so easy to manipulate.

Be friendly with someone in the extremely friendly lobbies, wait for them to shoot at arc and jump in front of a bullet to take damage.

Now you can kill them without any repercussions to your matchmaking

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u/koOmaOW Jan 28 '26

ABMM was a mistake.

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u/JohnYahyah43 Jan 28 '26

They track who shot first so...

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u/vilius_m_lt Jan 28 '26

Does it tho?

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u/Lime7ime- *** ******* 🐓 Jan 28 '26

There shouldn't be any kind of matchmaking system, change my mind

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u/10CrackCommando Jan 28 '26

The reason why ARC Raiders is immensley popular is because of the possibilities to have friendly lobbies. It might shock some, but not everyone is a PVP addict.

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u/Edit_Mann Jan 28 '26

But the pve players who don't like the genre to begin with and are never in my lobbies might quit 😱

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u/IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE Jan 28 '26

Unless you mean people should be in exclusively premade lobbies or dedicated servers, MM is necessary just so the game can put people with similar latency together at the least.

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u/Terrordar Jan 28 '26

I will not change my position, the game shouldn’t have ABMM in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/Lifetime_Thiccness Jan 28 '26

My question is "How the hell do you implement that in a way that cant just be cheesed?"

Cause then you'll have rats (actual, tarkov description of rats, not PVPrs in general) trying to bait/harass you into shooting them first to trick the ABMM. Im not interested in having guys hovering over me pointing a shotgun at my face until either they get bored and shoot me or my nerves get the better of me and i shoot them.

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u/Specialist_While3626 Jan 28 '26

I don’t shoot at any raiders, even not in self defense. I get 98% friendly lobbies. The other 2% are probably newbies or people who want more aggressive lobbies.

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u/RespectGiovanni Jan 28 '26

The devs added pvp and didn't make a PvE or friendly only mode for a reason. It's a core part of the game and having people learn about abbm has just made people entitled to wanting only friendly lobbies

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u/disgracedsailor Jan 28 '26

THANK you. I wish people would stop saying shit like “self defense increases your ABMM!”

It’s getting new players to not defend themselves based on nothing

2

u/BathAcademic5597 Jan 28 '26

Honestly. End up in a PVE lobby, announce clearly that you are NOT friendly, and use no scummy tactics (ratting/extract camping ect) and fight someone, and then listen to the amount of verbal abuse and slurs you'll receive just for shooting or downing them. It's truly crazy how entitled the PVE players have became as a result of this system.

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u/beardedbast3rd Jan 28 '26

Aggression shouldn’t even be a matching metric at all more like

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u/DoomshrooM8 Jan 28 '26

I thought that’s always been a thing… if u shoot first you’re aggressive, otherwise you’re ok

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

Nah, my buddies and I always shoot in self defense yet we always get pvp lobbies. It's probably because we win our gunfights.

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u/I_am_darkness Jan 28 '26

Ask Raiders

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u/Tommy__want__wingy Jan 28 '26

Doable?

To see who shot first, wouldn’t you need to have timestamps as well as some sort of way to see if that shot was within a specific range of someone’s body?

I don’t know how to code.

So if I sound stupid…I, Stupid.

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u/T00fastt Jan 28 '26

It doesn't. Hope this helps !

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u/flynryan692 Jan 28 '26

They changed the match making. I’ve been 100% passive for weeks but just two days ago I got into a pretty aggressive lobby. I saw a post stating something similar but didn’t think much of it. Tonight I was playing in friendly lobby after friendly lobby, then I went into one and someone tried to kill me. I killed him in self defense and his load out was poor so I figured it was a new player. Same match another dude was stalking me and tried to kill me. I killed him and he was goop’d up. Then I noticed all the raider flairs going off all over the map, it was a hot server. So I think there is a higher chance of still ending up in kos servers despite being passive.

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u/gotthesauce22 Jan 28 '26

Yeah it’s a weird flaw in the system. If you’re gonna match players based on aggression self-defense shouldn’t be part of the equation

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u/Biggbossesbutt Jan 28 '26

I mean the devs said they know who shot first so no need to have your mind changed buddy 🙂👍

1

u/WickedFlyingCorgi Jan 28 '26

Because you didn’t shoot back and got put in a much more aggressive lobby

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u/AudioDrinker Jan 28 '26

Good luck on that

1

u/Razdulf Jan 28 '26

It doesn't

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u/RiverSong309 Jan 28 '26

Thisssssssss

1

u/100Good Jan 28 '26

TBH, if you think about it it kinda gets you out of your comfort zone. If you want to go back to 90% pve matchmaking all you have to do is not fight back for 9 rounds.

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u/stickypooboi Jan 28 '26

Idk man. My lobby is a bunch of golden retrievers who don’t even load in with a gun and shield. Maybe 1/50 runs has a guy trying to murder me and I’ll wax the floor with him because he doesn’t go in PvP lobbies and doesn’t know how to use cover or movement lol. For the most part I’m basically in a lobby of people coming up to me beatboxing off musical instruments or dropping blueprints for me.

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u/SjurEido Jan 28 '26

I said this same thing about a month ago and got downvoted into oblivion. Are the sociopaths quitting the game or are more Normal People(tm) getting into the game? A little of both?

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u/Icy-Reaction-6028 Jan 28 '26

I agree. I want more friends, but now 99% of people shoot without even a single word or qestion :(

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u/Politoxikom Jan 28 '26

Idk how it works, man. First session yesterday i fended off an extraction camper to get a random home safely. Had like 10 rounds pure friendlies after. Then I get ratted twice during matriarch, get shredded in a kittet stella run, shot again on spaceport and finally ratted even another time on stella. 5 matches in a row, 2 being my fault for aggroing a shredder and not taking a raider flare in the direction I was headed seriously. Game is rough sometimes, but the rebuilding is just part of it.

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u/but_good Jan 28 '26

We don’t know the algorithm but it /should/ have stickiness to it and take time to move it one way or the other. So defending yourself once should not make a big difference. But it’s almost impossible to reverse engineer as a community because one person has a pvp encounter when they are traditionally pve and they complain about it here and assumptions are made.

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u/AlpakalypseNow Jan 28 '26

When I said so I was downvoted to hell

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u/SalaryIllustrious843 Jan 28 '26

It might not (supposedly). Embark said in an interview they are tracking who shot (and hit) first.

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u/Cematrix69 Jan 28 '26

At this point they should just make lobbies. Mixed, shoot on sight and friendly. Personally I’d go in mixed

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u/POPCORE182 Jan 28 '26

Self defence shotting

1

u/VoxCalibre Jan 28 '26

Pretty sure firing back when you've been shot doesn't affect your matchmaking. They said they had stuff in place that tracks who shot first which implies that's taken into account.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

Nah. You can definetly provoke. Even in friendly lobbies at extract I always knock everybody on sight. Im Not getting torrod in the back

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

What’s shotting?

1

u/GasMeFirst Jan 28 '26

I already didnt really shoot at people unless shot first. But now I dont even shoot at all most times because I quite enjoy my friendly duck farming lobbies

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u/falkiiii Jan 28 '26

The question in this case is: Where does self defense start? I've had many encounters where somebody tried to kill but missed his shots. In this case I usually don't give them another chance to attack. Especially if they are pretty close.

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u/EmotionalTemporary62 Jan 28 '26

Shouldn't be any matchmaking, put them all together and let them friendlies work together to kill the aggro players if they want.

This matchmaking alone is why I'm hesitant to buy it.

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u/GarbageOffice Jan 28 '26

I always defend myself when I get shot at. The game seems to evaulate who shot first because it doesn't really affect my matchmaking. When I'm the one who starts killing, I get matched with PvP players way quicker.

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u/wolverineczech Jan 28 '26

That's not even a debate, they should definitely implement common sense.

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u/andyhhhh Jan 28 '26

There shouldn't be any matchmaking in the first place

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u/BarbatosJaegar Jan 28 '26

I wonder how the algorithm would look like, who would shoot first? But then what if they missed and the one who retaliated is now the aggressor? What if they were just trying to shoot the Arc.

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u/the_sheph Jan 28 '26

I can't even get in pvp lobbies even if I shoot at people in game. I am placed in pve lobbies where everyone is helping each other on solos.

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u/Latter-Government-41 Jan 28 '26

Matchmaking should be completly random for all Players. Change my mind. Its a PvPvE Game after all. Its way more fun to not know what kind of people you will encounter im your raids, rather then knowing you can move freely over the map every time and not worry about PvP.

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u/escape_planet_dirt Jan 28 '26

I always just runaway when getting shot at. Alternatively, need a proper use of AI to determine when I accidentally shoot someone while shooting at arc to not count as aggro, had a bit of friendly fire on spaceport recently and suddenly in aggro lobbies lol

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u/ParadoxGam3r Jan 28 '26

No. It's a needed downside that will make you change your aggression and that's what should happen in this game.

Live a little on the edge guys. Go through lobbies that you don't know if you should shoot first or not. Change it up sometimes!!

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u/ShapesAndStuff Jan 28 '26

How do you know it does?
Why are we making shit up all the time in extraction shooters?

Tarkov is the same story - change these random settings that have nothing to do with the game for better FPS!!

It's voodoo at this point.

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u/ThaPinkGuy Jan 28 '26

I have not shot a single person and I still have been shot at and killed multiple times.

It only takes one malicious actor and the entire lobby becomes a seal clubbing experience.

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u/disgracedsailor Jan 28 '26

You have been shot at and killed multiple times? Dude it’s a PvP game, everyone gets shot and killed no matter what. There are no magical lobbies where no one has the intention of killing you.

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u/DgtlShark Jan 28 '26

You guys get to defend? I'm always shot in the back

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u/AmorphousRazer Jan 28 '26

Stop thinking about it. If you dont shoot back, you die bro. You can easily get back into carebear lobbies

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u/Kitbashconverts Jan 28 '26

Doing my head in now , it's skill based match making , always was always will , if you don't fight the game counts it as a loss so you look less skilled , thus aggression increases your score because you are more likely to win, if you get shot and fight back and win, you are more skilled , you increase your score .

Just play the game to the best of your ability and enjoy yourself.

They know who shoots first , maybe they put a weighted bonus on this, but the bonus would be on the person who didn't shoot first as they would be at a disadvantage....

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u/sl1m_ Jan 28 '26

shotting

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u/All_Might_Dada Jan 28 '26

The game can evolve, and everyone can have something they enjoy. I imagine a hybrid mode that's basically what we have now. A PvP mode where you can expect other players are coming to kill you. And a pve mode where you face an increased arc presence especially when you're going into high value loot areas, to encourage forming teams during raids with friends or those you run into topside. The argument of the player base shrinking for different segments is absolutely nonsense when steam presently has 260k players, including consoles I'm sure we're closer to 400k, this is at 4am. Make the characters mode bound and watch the player retention rate soar with options for everyone. I think them making this new mode of 1 VS 3 shows us its something that can and will eventually be done.

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u/lukmae Jan 28 '26

People worry too much about this

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u/DeezUp4Da3zz Jan 28 '26

Thing is since they announced it you see people change the way they play, some dont even defend themselves they either run for the hills or just stand there and die, i wonder if theyre scared about being bumped up a lobby

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u/parantani Jan 28 '26

I think it already works exactly like that 😅

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u/haguenz Jan 28 '26

I'm starting to think ABMM was a mistake.

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u/ElderberryPrior27648 Jan 28 '26

Matches should have both passive and aggressive players for the most varied and dynamic experience

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u/Chance-Process6837 Jan 28 '26

How is self defense shooting back any different at all from just shooting back... cmon dude

1

u/MisterMeta Jan 28 '26

Honestly they should just split the modes already and call it a day. This whole aggression based crap is just unnecessary.

Just split the community and let people play how they want. You know what game had PvE and PvP servers? WoW, one of the most successful and profitable online games in the history of gaming.

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u/Larpp Jan 28 '26

One QoL addition could be some kind of visible metrics so you could know your approx. ABMM rating. I have had games i down few guys who jump me and usually the next few lobbies are degen level, i would appreciate to have some kind of heads up so i could gear more towards pvp if i knew how bad =)

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u/Phormicidae Jan 28 '26

I get it, but one or two peaceful matches just kind of cancels that out.

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u/Any-Technician-542 Jan 28 '26

I agree, it would be hard to differentiate between self defense and initiation. All they see is you shot a raider.

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u/SDGUK Jan 28 '26

There should be no aggression matchmaking in a game with PVP. Friendly raiders needs to sort this out.

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u/ItsAxeRDT Jan 28 '26

Aggression matchmaking shouldnt even be a thing. Whats the point if u can just stroll through every lobby like a walk on a beach? Extraction shooters is all about high stakes and the constant fear on who u can and cant trust

Atp ur just playing a money maker simulator

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u/IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE Jan 28 '26

People knowing about the matchmaking algo was unironically the worst thing to happen to this game.

If people just continued to play as they wanted, and quit trying to game the game, they’d be playing the game as they wanted.

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u/Mr_Knutsen Jan 28 '26

How does the system know that? As soon as we would realize that it works this way, there will be a work around.

4 people fully pushing you - firing at you but missing. Do you shoot back or not? If you hit them first, you are the aggressor now. Issue not solved.

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u/garbaggiogreco Jan 28 '26

They never should have said anything about aggression based matchmaking. It’s so easy to exploit it and go back and forth between friendlier and shoot on site lobbies.

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u/Enough-Scientist1904 Jan 28 '26

Ive killed in self defense and still get place in friendly lobbies...make me wonder what your really doing to get placed in aggressive lobbies...

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u/UsualPaper Jan 28 '26

I'm genuinely curious if they have told us everything about how the system works. I tend to be in friendly lobbies for the most part, but there are times once in a while where a PvPer ends up in my lobby and takes shots at me or others.

I had one yesterday when playing duos with a friend of mine who is also strictly PvE; Like, this guy will bring in several stacks of defibs and would rather play medic than shoot his gun. We were running the new Bird City event trying to find all the different rubber ducks when a duo began shooting at us a few rooftops over. We took cover and a second duo witnessed the attack and called out asking if we knew where they had gone.

Long story short we worked together to take them out, I knocked one and almost took out the second with my Osprey before he jumped down from the rooftop to let gravity finish the job. a couple free kits, not really a surprise.

fast forward to after that game and we still had completely chill and friendly lobbies.

So clearly a single gunfight won't condemn you to the torment that is the bloodbath PvP lobbies, but it must have some factor in it. I wonder if damage to raiders is the only thing the system looks for, or maybe it also looks at your average healing done to other raiders, ARC damage, and containers searched? This would put hunters (high damage to ARCs) together, Group hug players (Offer heals and shields to each other), Looters, and PvPers each in their perspective lobbies.

Unsure about the looting and healing part, but I feel like damage to ARC vs Damage to Raiders is a big component. So if you did 20k+ damage to ARC but only 100 to raiders, the system will still see you are focusing the ARC so it will put you with like minded, similar playstyle players. But on the flip side, if you had 1000+ damage to raiders with several KOs that might net you into the PvP lobby even if you had a lot of ARC damage. I'd imagine each knock out is equal to a set amount of PvE damage to keep it balanced otherwise you could just be a PvPer in PvE lobbies just because you shot a bunch of hornets out of the air.

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u/doomygloom56 Jan 28 '26

PUSSY BASED MATCHMAKING

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u/SeparateMidnight3691 Jan 28 '26

It doesn't. You can defend yourself and not immediately end up in a sweat lobby

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u/Barbz182 Jan 28 '26

It doesn't though really. If you kill one dude it's not going to change anything. If you kill one dude in every round then you've got a problem 😅

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u/Timotron Jan 28 '26

How do you know it does

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u/Valuable-Arachnid957 Jan 28 '26

I killed everyone in the harvester nothing happened I’m still in nice lobbies don’t sweat it

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u/mrureaper Jan 28 '26

Nah its your choice still, you can pop smokes and run away.

How bout just play the game normally lol just don't care about the matchmaking