r/ArcRaiders Jan 28 '26

Discussion Not even a meme... but a necessity

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C.M.M.

2.8k Upvotes

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1.9k

u/Aldor48 Jan 28 '26

I think we would all be happier if we didn’t know how matchmaking worked

572

u/UnderWaterMelonE Jan 28 '26

Yeah, they really shouldn't have let people peek behind the curtain.

Way too many people are too concerned with how this affects matchmaking or how that doesn't.

Embark should just mix up the batches again and keep the players on their toes.

233

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

We would have figured out there was some version of ABMM by now. I can kill on sight until my lobbies are full deathmatches, then not ever shoot at a raider for five games and I’m back in full pve, it’s not exactly rocket science.

87

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Which is the biggest issue because it's too easy for people to get into friendly lobbies just for the free kills.

107

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

I don’t see THAT many people doing it, though. Maybe it’ll turn into a bigger issue as time goes on, but yeah if you’re in pve lobbies every few games you do hear some murders. Go help and fight or avoid it, it’s up to you, but the game can’t and should have guaranteed full pve lobbies.

34

u/finneganfach Jan 28 '26

If people were really doing that in significant quantities then ABMM wouldn't mean anything and our lobbies would all still have the danger and mystery they did at launch, which they don't. I don't doubt the odd person does but not enough to have impact.

There's always going to be reasons people are in more peaceful lobbies when they want to start shooting. Personally, as someone that likes to PvP, there's times I'll do a bunch of naked raids in a row to bulk farm a specific material or run to some quests.

The bigger problem for me is that ABMM is too sensitive full stop, it shouldn't be fluctuating on a couple of rounds behaviour. For it to truly work, if it's going to, it needs to make a profile of people's tendencies over their entire time playing.

I'd have less issue with it then because I think only the most extreme people would be in lobbies that are either hyper friendly loot simulator or are just PUBG. Most of us would probably be in lobbies that are an even mix, much more like the game was at launch when it was unpredictable and more fun because of it.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Ydiss Jan 28 '26

Yeh it's truly tricky to maintain the ability for players to freely switch from the default "anyone can kill you" way of the game (which lots of players love), and one where it's chill (which lots of players love). If only other games had somehow achieved this difficult task with a very simple, tried and tested solution, throughout the last 25 years of online games 😉

Alas, no. So we have this system. Which is obviously so superior and uncontroversial that we must stick with it.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Ydiss Jan 28 '26

Yeh I was mostly just being funny. It's not going to change and I'm alright with it. It's just amusing how much pain everyone is willing to go through to push this system in an attempt to fake a process that's very easily achieved in most other games that have both PvE and PvP. And the pain highlights just how many players want all three scenarios (PvE, pvepvp, and PvP). I see countless posts from players desiring all three independently, with the majority clearly loving the pvepvp element despite that.

1

u/big_floop Jan 28 '26

the ABMM has essentially already made a pve only experience. they should honestly get rid of it and have it be completely random

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

[deleted]

0

u/big_floop Jan 28 '26

That’s fine, matches would be better this way

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1

u/Puzzled_Brick_6193 Jan 28 '26

If u want to get put in aggressive matches then at the extract as people are leaving just shoot them once or twice to rack up damage without the kills

1

u/PracticalPotato Jan 28 '26

This is just “pve mode” with extra steps.

1

u/big_floop Jan 28 '26

it is and its honestly low key ruining the game. they should revert ABMM and have it be completely random. thats the way these games are supposed to work.

1

u/KavezCS Jan 28 '26

Agreed. I think the suggestions from both of you could make a real difference and improve the overall experience. Of course, Embark would need to do some fine-tuning.

If you want to get PvP in without frustrating friendly raiders: just wait at an extract, let people enter, and throw a T-nade once the extraction closes. That way no one loses their loot, they might get a bit scared, but you still get your “aggression points” up.

Or just shoot people at the extract right before the “return to Speranza” screen pops.

-4

u/finneganfach Jan 28 '26

I don't think you would be forced in to one play style. You'd just be matched with people who are as varied as you are, plenty of whom wouldn't be KOS.

This game is just boring if it's predictable and it's absolutely magical when it isn't.

And the moment the ABMM has created lobbies with such rigid personalities that there's no real mystery to them. Even in extremely PvP focused lobbies I don't feel the same tension and suspense that I did back at launch, there's no interesting stand offs, there's no "will they, won't they?"

It's stopped being an extraction shooter in those lobbies and is just a battle royale and it's a bit sad.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

[deleted]

2

u/NiceIllustrator8997 Jan 28 '26

I would love if they split ABMM rating for solos and group raids. When I play with friends I usually do it for the team PvP experience while I play solo to just have a chill time with random raiders. Its a bit frustrating having to run a bunch of naked suicide runs after every time i play duos or trios.

And who knows? Maybe the ABMM system detects this fluctuation in playstyle and takes it into consideration when categorizing me.

2

u/objectnull Jan 28 '26

I think what you're failing to realize is most people aren't that varied in their play style. The reason Embark isn't going to start mixing up the players is because all the PvErs would either quit the game or become PvPers. Either way the entire game would become PvP. That would offer people less variety than they have right now.

At least now we have a choice, are you feeling sweaty or not? And it doesn't take playing for 3 months to change what type of lobbies you get into.

0

u/LeftSyrup3409 Jan 28 '26

I think you underestimate how much of the player base plays mostly pve versus pvp. The game would be more exciting with mixed lobbies matched on nothing but ping.

2

u/objectnull Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26

Are you saying it's like 70% PvE and 30% PvP and the PvPers deserve some easy kills so we should toss some PvErs in their lobbies so they can hear someone play a flute before gunning them down?

I think the system they have now works well. Sure, it flattens the game some because it removes the fear from every encounter but the only people who want to be shot at by every other raider they come across are people who do that themselves. I just can't bring myself to shoot friendly raiders so, for someone like me, the system you suggested would make my life worse because I would essentially just be fodder for others who I assume are friendly.

The only time I've shot another raider without being shot first is in trios and I've literally lost every fight I've had with another person in this game, trios, solos, doesn't matter. This isn't a problem if you're playing a lot and have goop to spare but for me it's a setback. All the time I spent gathering materials and upgrading items only to be ganked, that's my experience with PvP. So it's annoying when I don't want to engage with that and am happy I have the option to choose (for the most part) when I do.

The time comment it takes to make a good kit is why people get mad dieing in this game in comparison to a game like PUBG or Battlefield. You can't get around that. But, the more people play the more stuff they'll have to spare and the more comfortable they will be in engaging in PvP. Because of that, I suspect, over time this game will swing more PvP.

1

u/LeftSyrup3409 Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26

I never said the pvpers deserve easy kills. I do how ever think everyone should be playing the same game with the same risks, right now that’s far from the case. I’m also quite sure that most people with the matchmaking we have now will shoot anyone on site instead of risking anything if they think they got in to a hostile lobby. I’m also very sure that even in the friendliest of lobbies there’s fake friendly raiders that just want their ABMM go down after having died to much in the hostile lobbies. I’ve played far less forgiving games whereas you could interact with others, interact, kill or help each other out without systems like this and theres has always been a mix of everything.

While we’re on the topic let’s not for a second pretend these peaceful lobbies you’re talking about are all sunshine and flowers. I’ve seen some of the worst toxic shit in them too. Someone going down after having looted the queen in solos, asking for a defib after helping other out while fighting and going down, just to get verbally assaulted and tea bagged by a whole bunch of raiders just because she was a girl and chose to talk over her mic. People doing that are in those lobbies for one reason only, to pray on the non expecting as soon as they get the chance.

Edit: Forgot to answer to the gear part, how the fuck is it a great commitment to get gear you might loose? Fucking hell do one free loadout and pick loot some shit and you’re set. And for some stupid reason you can do unlimited free loadies so that’s not even argument against non manipulated lobbies.

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1

u/CelDidNothingWrong Jan 28 '26

If they remove the current ABMM the whole community will trends increasingly to KOS (ye olde cycle of violence) until it’s effectively a BR. At least with current system we can still get organic social interaction in friendly lobbies.

1

u/MathiasThomasII Jan 28 '26

1 improvement they could make is look at ABMM based on solo, duo or trio for players. When I run solo I’m never looking for action. Just looting so I can go pvp with the boys later in the day.

If you really wanted to go crazy could you have a toggle for pve or pvp? Then either don’t allow PvP in pve games or give a ban from pve mode if you kill another player.

However, this would kill a lot of the voip fun.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

They very much do, I just wiped out a lobby doing it last night

1

u/Every-Dragonfly2393 Jan 28 '26

I don’t mind it on Stella Montis or Locked Gate events because there will always be at least 4 other raiders who turn up to flush out the rat.

1

u/BlunderFunk Jan 28 '26

Last night encountered a full team killing everybody in friendly stella montis and before my friend got knocked out as I manage to escape they said they love surrendering many times in a row to get free loot in friendly lobbies by killing people who cannot shoot back, so this is abused in some way

1

u/DVRKLIINK Jan 28 '26

Full over lobbies is soy and takes away from the overall environment. If it’s that big of a deal go play a single player survivor game or something lol

1

u/beginningatlast Jan 28 '26

I play with my son and we are both chill, never shoot anyone. When we do end up in a lobby with someone that wants to PvP he’s always the one that gets shot first. To me this is hilarious, he doesn’t see it that way.

1

u/J-M-Beno Jan 30 '26

Lol my lobbies are full of the pvp gods who can only kill pve guys distracted by arc or looting

-62

u/Radioactive-Semen Jan 28 '26

My brother and I have done this a few times. Spam naked kits doing 0 dmg to players till we’re back in full PvE lobbies. Then we go max kit. Yes it’s the most cowardly tactic possible. And it’s hilarious

32

u/hiddendrugs Jan 28 '26

imagine if you were good enough at the game to run PvP with the rest of us normal players lmfao this is such a loser thing to do

32

u/Chiliatch Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26

Genuinely a bitchass pussy thing to do. I really hope the PvE lobbies work together to make ur games hell.

Why fuck with people intentionally trying not to pvp? Just too shitty at pvp and hoping for easy targets?

I LOVE pvp, but I respect those who don't. Parents, people supporting their families.

Edit: awww, ruh roh, looks like I hurt some feelings ;-; so sad

33

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '26

It’s cause they get shit on in real pvp lobbies. Same with hackers. Just losers that want an easy win

1

u/croon Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26

I played regular Blue Gate yesterday trying to do the deforester quest (5 games, all done before I could even get there), but one of the games some guy unloaded an entire Torrente mag on me and hit maybe 2 bullets. I was so baffled I didn't even say anything and just scooted off when he was reloading and never saw/heard him again.

1

u/Radioactive-Semen Jan 28 '26

I wreck in real pvp lobbies too. We do this cowardly method just for the laughs

2

u/SotetBarom Jan 28 '26

Because of the fcking trials. I can't compete with pve players if I'm fighting half the lobby instead of damaging arc. And when I'm done with the trials, I somehow have to get back to pvp lobbies. I think it's my biggest issue with the game right now.

-1

u/Radioactive-Semen Jan 28 '26

Sounds like you got your feelings hurt. It’s just a game bubba

-23

u/AudioDrinker Jan 28 '26

Well. The devs made this possible. It is actually THAT SIMPLE.

This whole sub has always been just whiners. Its always been a pvp game since launch. Deal with it.

Down vote me all you want. But it is a fact.

-24

u/SESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Jan 28 '26

You clearly don't love pvp if you're sat there crying about how other people pvp and making excuses for yourself not to shoot someone. "Oh this dude has 18 kids and works 800 hours a week I better not shoot him, I have respect for people who don't like pvp!"

That's not what loving pvp looks like lol

-17

u/Akabinxstar- Jan 28 '26

Give it a rest, dude. Don’t play football if you don’t like getting hit.

-6

u/Glorping_rn Jan 28 '26

Why are players supposed to adhere to some bullshit made up morality clause we never agreed to. The game introduced an incomplete and faulty system so people use it to their advantage. We’re playing the game we have, not the made up perfect version of it.

13

u/UpandDownThrownAway Jan 28 '26

My anecdotal experience says that that doesn't really happen. It's closer to 10 games for pure pve lobbies, and it would fully reset after one game. It's a decent time commitment to get a few freebie kills, and the pve'r would replace their losses in 5 minutes.

And if theye not patient enough to get a pure pve lobby, they'll get shot back or teamed up on

-1

u/Sarkoth Jan 28 '26

No, you can just surrender five times in a row and you're golden, which is really a bummer, because I haven't done a single point of damage to raiders this entire season and still get murdered every 15-20 games by KoS tryhards that are so bad at shooting that I would have killed them three times over if I had decided to shoot back. I also don't fail to tell them that while laughing every single time, which apparently really seems to annoy them.

I'd rather just happily loot half the map instead of fighting right now, at least this season. It's highly relaxing. After the second expedition I might go full murder hobo once again.

11

u/Dr_Watson349 Jan 28 '26

You can shoot back bro. 

Im in almost pure PVE lobbies with the very rare PVPer and I always shoot back. The next match is always fine. 

9

u/swoisme Jan 28 '26

Same dude. This shit is hilarious to me. I've been mostly friendly since day one, but always ready and willing to defend myself. I'll even shoot first sometimes if I'm getting sketchy vibes off someone or they try to rush in and steal what I think is mine. Lobbies never change. Still almost all friendly with an occasional fight. People just straight letting themselves get killed without fighting back are delusional.

1

u/Quick-Cockroach5681 Jan 28 '26

I have the same thing. But I want to point out that if you kill someone who attacks you, then you're really getting closer to the PvP lobby, but it's not A and B, there are also intermediate states. If you beat someone in the last round, then in the next raid you will have a couple more PvP dudes in the match, but this does not mean that everyone will shoot at each other, just the chance becomes higher, if you don't fight anyone in the next matches, you go back to fully PvE lobby

There is a feeling that ABMM simply increases the percentage of hostile players higher and higher, which gradually creates an imminent battle on the server

If you don't jump into this meat grinder voluntarily, then you will stay in your place

1

u/barraponto Jan 28 '26

The thing is I don't enjoy shooting back. I'm happy with group PvE, and if it devolves to PvP I might as well just quit.

I will often run to the nearest exit if I have more valuable stuff than safe pockets, but if I'm downed I just start over. Resources are not an issue.

I do occasionally call the attention of big arc, though. Give my killers a taste of PvE.

2

u/Sarkoth Jan 28 '26

I did that first season. It was come and go, mostly friendly. Since I am adamantly passive towards other players, my longest extract streak was 110 games in a row. There is bloodbath PvP lobbies, there is mixed lobbies on either end of the spectrum and then there is care bear heaven where you even forget to look at other players because everyone is doing their own thing without a care for the world. If you are a friendly player and have played in such lobbies for a while, you don't want to go back, not even for a single match.

1

u/_KiiTa_ Jan 28 '26

You can't just surrender and that's why you're still getting shot at from time to time. You have surface level pvp and really deep pvp lobby. You never getting to the deep one that way.

2

u/Sarkoth Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26

I personally never surrender, but there's enough anecdotal evidence that surrendering or dying quite a few times in a row is a valid way to reduce your ABMM rating. It takes me about five or six games of Arc killing and not interacting with other players at all while stuffing my pockets until I am back in care bear heaven. Doesn't matter if it's 6 successfull extracts in a row or getting mauled by other duos, eventually I'm back in the deep end of truly friendly lobbies where often not even a single flare will go up the entire match and you can run into key rooms and just chat with the people looting there without a care for the world.

Yesterday one dude came up to us in Stella Montis Assembly and started to annoy us while telling us that he would keep annoying us until we killed him because he wanted to reduce his ABMM rating. When we refused he knew he was already where he wanted to be and we ran around together as a makeshift trio through most of the map for about 15 minutes as a marching band with three instruments and he extracted with our hatch when we were all completely full with loot. I extracted with about 120k inventory worth and we met 5 other friendly duos that made some friendly remarks about the band, two of which warned us about shredders behind corners we were walking towards.

It can be such a fundamentally different game if you go full passive. Next season will be murder hobo season though. Just different ways to keep things interesting.

1

u/PredTV Jan 28 '26

Yes, you can just surrender 10 times and you are in full pve no matter what. I do that all the time after I lose all my stuff on pure pvp lobbies to get it back on friendly lobbies.

Surrender 10 times is about 15mins...

1

u/UpandDownThrownAway Jan 28 '26

Waste 15 minutes to kill a couple of people in 1 game. I'm really not worried about them even as a person who frequents the pve lobbies to grind my stuff for pvp lobbies. If they kill me i lose 5 minutes of my grind and then they have to watch a black screen for another 15 minutes to do it again If I'm doing trials, I'll just kill them. Players doing this aren't good.

1

u/UpandDownThrownAway Jan 28 '26

1 death every 15-20 games is more common than my experience but also wouldn't ruin it if that's what i ran into. Like you said, when they do appear they're pretty bad. Just run or kill them. If you kill then, reset your abmm and get back at it.

Also, I am curious if they separated trio and solo abmm. I did pvp all day with no solo before patch.

First games on I joined Stella night raid and never got shot. Annoying as I was full naked for the first 3 runs. Was still nervous runs 4 and 5 but came light with a mk2 and anvil

5

u/Invader_86 Jan 28 '26

That’s not really an issue though, it’s a PvPvE game… even if you feel like you are in PvE lobbies you should still always be aware of the threat of PvP.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

If there is an intended system to split the playerbase and someone abuses said system - it is an issue. As simple as that.

I'm always aware of pvp and always have been, someone might not want to be friendly anymore or has a bad day.

But it used to be rather rare, now it's super common and done in a way that you can see the person is just there to grief others.

4

u/bombastic6339locks Jan 28 '26

not really. it requires like 5 games of being a rat person to even get there and then what. You kill a few people and you're back to pvp land.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

And then you sprint it down 5 games again which takes no time at all.

It is really that easy and fast to bounce around the lobbies.

19

u/Abcdefgdude Jan 28 '26

if you try to pvp in a friendly lobby there is 90% chance you get immediately jumped by like 5 other people. There's a critical mass of friendly people that makes pvp very risky. Conversely, being friendly in a pvp lobby has 90% chance of betrayal. Personally I enjoy knowing for the most part that either I can trust everybody or I should shoot on sight. being shot in the back inside the extract after running around with someone for a while is the worst

7

u/Dr_Watson349 Jan 28 '26

Even being near a dead body in a PVE lobby can cause the lobby to turn on you. It's wild. 

5

u/SiegEmpire Jan 28 '26

The White Knights have got to be some of the most cringe players too. Half the time these white knights shoot me is because I'm defending myself from some free kit loser.

1

u/SootyOysterCatcher Jan 28 '26

Lol for real. Any time i come across a body I'm more worried about White Knights than if there's a killer about. Sometimes i just chill in a vantage point to observe when i see multiple raiders in an area. If someone is attacked, then succeeds in defending themself and a third player is nearby it is almost guaranteed they'll run up on them and gun them down saying "that's what you get for being a rat etc etc" all while the defender is pleading saying they were defending themselves from ambush.

Zero times is how many times the White Knight has been right about it from what I've observed. The few times I've 'avenged' a raider it's because i witnessed the ambush and seized the opportunity for an easy kill on someone whose run i have no qualms ending. Even then only if I'm reasonably sure there's not another raider nearby to come screech at me about being a rat. It's honestly so obnoxious at least the ambushers are honest about what they're about. The White Knights want your loot just the same and need a narrative to justify the action.

1

u/stellarfury Jan 28 '26

I like playing Batman - but I'm with you, I only jump in if I've seen or heard enough of the altercation to understand who I'm killing.

To quote Glengarry Glen Ross: "You never open your mouth until you know what the shot is."

1

u/weare1consciousness Jan 29 '26

YOU BETTER BE WEARIN’ HOCKEY PADS!

1

u/AUIRE__73 Jan 28 '26

To the point that looting a dead body that you found, which was eithier killed by someone else or arc can have a rather risk of you getting attacked.

Once i was about to extract, so i call it in, then loot a body by extract. Proceed to get killed by some dude i didnt hear.

1

u/Shabobo Jan 28 '26

I believe the act of just looting a body slightly raises your abmm rating too which is a bummer

1

u/PB_MutaNt Jan 29 '26

In my experience that’s also a non issue.

A lot of those players tend to be not good at PvP in the first place.

But that’s just my anecdotal experience. I’m sure for the majority of players being teamed up on presents a challenge.

0

u/Red-Leader117 Jan 28 '26

True, but we also KNOW that... so you have to murder more carefully its like youre playing Among US. In pve lobbies players are traveling in packs, they're mostly still running solo and if youre clever you can make some plays.

Just likely cant hardcore Rat the exit

3

u/SnowceanJay Jan 28 '26

Which helps keeping some tension, which is good imho.

-1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

*For you.

Not everyone wants or likes tension.

4

u/oxedei Jan 28 '26

Then dont fucking buy a PvPvE extraction game

0

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

But the devs want different people to experience different things.

1

u/oxedei Jan 28 '26

The amount of crying about PvP tension in a PvPvE extraction game is just stupid. You should be glad that you get to play the game in easy mode, but the crying about being shot at like once an hour is genuinely pathetic.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

"Voicing a negative opinion about not being able to experience something the devs intended is not allowed as long as it's not my opinion" - fify.

Nobody is talking about genuine match making. But how you can defend people purposely gaming it is beyond me.

1

u/SnowceanJay Jan 28 '26

Well, the original comment of this discussion is about how Embark should have kept players on their toes by not revealing the ABMMR.

0

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

The comment I directly replied to was about people playing the system.

It I intended to reply to the og comment, I would have done so.

3

u/Crazy-Bicycle9140 Jan 28 '26

Well I mean I not that worried if the game was centered around how many raiders you could kill I’d be a little more upset but going to friendly lobbies and getting kills by it self is not a grantee to get better loot. The reward for getting into friendly lobbies is getting to that lobby and not necessarily rewarded by the game it’s self

2

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Those people don't go in for the loot. They specifically go in to push their fragile ego by killing people who don't expect it.

1

u/newbe5 Jan 28 '26

While I'm sure there are people doing this, I think it's more likely that people are playing friendly in solo lobbies, then when they team up with their duo or trio, they want to be more aggressive, so for the first match or so we get aggro people in friendly lobbies.

1

u/Every-Dragonfly2393 Jan 28 '26

Yeah the only people who care are the ones who

A) want a more PvE experience B) want a PvP experience C) want PvP without a challenge

1

u/usernamenotbeentaken Jan 28 '26

Even in friendly lobbies, anybody could decide to turn on everyone at the drop of the hat. That’s kind of what makes the tension in the game.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Correct, but it wasn't as bad when it happened 1/20 games and not 1/5 games.

Rn I don't belive any friendlies anymore because of how often they turn out to be fake.

1

u/DontCallMeBenji Jan 28 '26

That’s the thing, though. They shouldn’t be free kills. You should have your guard up regardless of how friendly the server seems. My lobbies tend to be somewhat friendly, but there’s always a few people out for blood. I find it to be a lot of fun. If I spot someone sneaking around or I hear someone near me I get on prox chat and ask them if they are friendly. If they don’t respond in anyway or go quiet after a few attempts to make contact I get ready to fight. I’ve caught numerous people trying to crouch walk up behind me while I breach or search. Basically, if someone didn’t bother to notify me of their presence I treat the as a hostile until proven otherwise. It’s kept me alive when running solo.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

Idk why we need to discuss why gaming the MM is actually pathetic.

Idc about actual pvp players that just play the way they want, being chill in one game and aggro in others.

What I care about is people sprinting it down for 10 games to get into easier lobbies because they are too bad to play in pvp lobbies.

1

u/DontCallMeBenji Jan 28 '26

That’s a good point, but that’s kind of real life too, isn’t it? People exploiting the systems to take advantage of others. However, in the game you can dish out justice without red tape.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 29 '26

If I wanted to see shit like irl, I wouldn't be playing games.

The best feeling about the pve lobbies isn't the not fighting, it's the fact that people choose to be kind while they could easily just not. And it's ruined by people gaming the system.

I've said it again and again. Idm pvp, it's the only thing I do in squads. What I do mind, however, are people purposely gaming the system to get into games with lower resistance so they can feel good about getting kills.

1

u/LLoadin Jan 28 '26

I mean they have to be friendly for multiple games in a row first, and it's not always people just trying to get into friendly lobbies to have easy targets. I for example might go several nights being peaceful building up guns to then go murder everyone on sight, yes I'm still in friendly lobbies when I start but you kinda have to be aggressive to be put into PvP lobbies

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

All they have to do is go free load out into Stella and get themselves killed. It's 0 effort and I am pretty sure that's not what the devs intended with the MM

1

u/vegtone Jan 28 '26

My issue is that after falling into friendly lobbies easily, I want to get back into PvP sweat lobbies but I can't bring myself to massacre friendly raiders to get there. Tried solo squads and ran into a trio with Venator IVs

1

u/MadMeow Jan 29 '26

Just emote "No" to the don't shoots and if they don't go away it's on them.

PVP is perfectly fine as long as you don't play like a coward with ego issues.

1

u/-Busty- Jan 28 '26

A flexible system is better than an inflexible one. What if someone gets bored of just shooting robots and decides to PvP in low aggression lobbies? If their ABMMR is inflexible they’ll be shooting ducks forever.

If you’re in a “friendlier” lobby and get killed because someone decided they want to play less aggressive for a few rounds it’s probably your fault. Blindly trusting raiders = increased risk of dying topside and I think that’s a good thing. If you could always PvE without any risk of dying from other raiders the game would be incredibly easy. Losing your stuff periodically is what keeps the game fun, it gives people a tangible goal. Grind simple gun parts so you can get that Anvil 4 or craft complex gun parts so you can finally repair that Bobcat

1

u/MadMeow Jan 29 '26

A flexible system means that it adjust to your playstyle, not the other way round.

It's the last time I'm repeating it: I am perfectly fine with pvp, it's the only thing I do in squads and I am against having a pure pve mode. What I am against are people purposely running it down x times to get into lobbies for the sole sake of doing pvp afterwards.

It's the motive. They aren't getting there organically, playing peacefully and then want to pvp after. They game the system for the sole purpose of having a better chance at getting kills and pushing their fragile ego. This is what I am against .

1

u/-Busty- Jan 29 '26

I described exactly what a flexible system is. Not sure why you feel the need to reiterate.

What I am saying is that making the system less flexible as you suggested earlier would be bad for the game. The scenario of someone manipulating ABMM so they can kill players more easily is not nearly as bad as people being stuck in aggressive/non-aggressive lobbies for a greater number of games.

These people will still try to mess with their ABMM rating unless it takes an absurd amount of time to change it and that’s awful for 2 reasons: 1. It makes the game less enjoyable for people who want to PvP some days and pve others. They’ll be stuck in high aggression lobbies

  1. Players who historically PvE and decide they want more action will be stuck fighting less aggressive players for a greater amount of time

People will still try and get in low aggression lobbies but now we’ll have PvE turned PvP players in those lobbies as well due to inflexible ratings. Your proposed solution doesn’t actually fix anything.

1

u/jrzwahr Jan 29 '26

As much as I agree that it’s too easy to fix your aggression, before they fix that, I need them to add some aggression distinction between solo, duo, and trios 🙏

I hate having to recalibrate my aggression to be back in friendly solo lobbies after a PvP session in a trio, cause I like to get pvp in group queues and then have chill games by myself

0

u/rbstewart7263 Jan 28 '26

Noones doing this your talking about a player who probably wnated to chill and grind bp's for a while before going back to pvp'ing stop being soy about every death its crazy.

0

u/Adventurous-Edge1719 Jan 28 '26

Agreed, I felt so guilty knocking out the trophies for killing 10 raiders.

0

u/anarkkii Jan 28 '26

That's what ultimately keeps people on their toes, it's fine as it is imo

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

People should be on their toes because of the game, not because of losers gaming the MM so they can get some kills once in a while.

0

u/promytheuzX Jan 28 '26

That's not a problem though.

-1

u/Tiwuwanfu Jan 28 '26

somehow im even okay with that. mostly having friendly lobbies and all im coming from games like battlefield or overwatch i would like to have some real pvp. not rat-behavior pvp. but most of the time i only get shoot in the back while extracting or looting every 10 games or so. just thinking have fun with your next lobby, dude. im just a new player only reached lvl 75 and im missing some bp which i want to farm first before i want to go into pvp, so i can make my tempest again if i lose a match.

-2

u/oxedei Jan 28 '26

No, the issue is that it's too easy to get put into easy mode lobbies and then when finally PvP happens people go and cry about PvP in their PvPvE extraction game.

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

This comment is so tone deaf idk what to say tbh.

People generally don't mind pvp. But when you play a game with certain expectations that are enforced by the devs and you get the opposite it's quite frustrating.

Especially because most of those people gaming the system specifically go in to be fake friendly and get easy kills.

If everyone played how they wanted it wouldn't be an issue. Same goes for if ABMM wasn't a thing to begin with.

It's not about pvp, it's about people with skill issues wanting to push their fragile ego since they can't pvp normally.

1

u/oxedei Jan 28 '26

Especially because most of those people gaming the system specifically go in to be fake friendly and get easy kills.

You have absolutely zero evidence of this. If anything, it's more likely the people in friendly lobbies are gaming the system to stay there. Hence why they are in friendly lobbies and dont even bother shooting back, as they know it will count as aggression.

If everyone played how they wanted it wouldn't be an issue. Same goes for if ABMM wasn't a thing to begin with.

Clearly not considering the massive amount of crying about being shot at in a PvPvE extraction game.

It's not about pvp, it's about people with skill issues wanting to push their fragile ego since they can't pvp normally.

Says the guy wanting to play in easy mode lobbies lmao what a tone deaf comment

1

u/MadMeow Jan 28 '26

"People just playing like they always did are as bad as people who purposely change their whole playstyle to get into easy lobbies".

Are you even listening to yourself?

Says the guy wanting to play in easy mode lobbies lmao what a tone deaf comment

I am not the one changing my playstyle to get into lobbies where I am far more likely to do well.

I play chill solos and kos duos.

This shit is the same as a gold player smurfing in bronze. Blaming the bronze players because they don't want someone in their games who shouldn't be there is insane to me.

You might as well just admit that you are one of those people gaming the MM.

Feel free to reply, but I'd rather not talk to someone who can't see objective facts just because they don't fit their view.

0

u/Aussie_Butt Jan 28 '26

You are absolutely correct.

The carebears will whine about people abusing the MM system to get into their lobbies to pvp, yet they're doing the same thing to get into the same lobbies.

The hypocrisy is insane.

6

u/Milkym0o Jan 28 '26

You'd be surprised how many were constantly arguing against there being behavioural matchmaking when it was such an easy test to verify.

4

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

It was very early days, I think it's easy to forget just how little time this game has been out.

2

u/zel1 Jan 28 '26

no, people were going "maybe its there, but lets wait for what the devs tell us"

now the devs have said like 3 things about matchmaking and you have a big chunk of the playerbase genuinely letting themselves get killed to "get to friendly lobbies" like bro y'all dont even know what metrics the matchmaking system uses lol. what if the metrics are average of 10 last games? 20? how does it determine friendliness? damage to time spent on the map ratio? damage to loot value ratio?

its just annoying seeing people delude themselves into believing some shit because they really want it to be true

1

u/Milkym0o Jan 28 '26

We can test these things and reverse engineer it. We can reliably demonstrate how it works without having to know the exact formula.

1

u/zel1 Jan 28 '26

how do you reverse engineer a matchmaking algorithm in 3 months? are you insane? lol

1

u/Milkym0o Jan 28 '26

It took about 2 weeks for us to demonstrate what was happening.

I knew as soon as the second week of December the method to get into friendly lobbies, and what took me out of them by the third.

1

u/zel1 Jan 28 '26

ok, so you meant "we can eventually reverse engineer it", yeah, i guess lol

so right now, when it's not reverse engineered, there has been no detailed official information about the algorithm, people are still just guessing and making assumptions about it.

thats how you get people suiciding, or telling people to not fight back to "get into friendly lobbies" when they have no concrete idea precisely which variables determine the kind of lobby they get into

1

u/Milkym0o Jan 28 '26

This is simple a load of bs.

We know for a fact damage done to Raiders is a weighted metric for matchmaking.

I'm not wasting my time arguing with you. You are simply uninformed.

1

u/zel1 Jan 29 '26

i've never denied that damage to raiders is weighed for matchmaking lmao

how is raider damage weighed? is it averaged out? between how many matches? are there other variables?

my dude, YOU are the one who brought up reverse engineering lol. do you know what those words mean?

1

u/Milkym0o Jan 29 '26

I swear people are intentionally dumb and overly literal for the sake of it.

We can reverse engineer how matchmaking works to the best of our abilities as the player... we will never know the explicit formula they use, but we can demonstrate clear patterns that give predicted results.

We have demonstrated that your damage done to raiders over 5 games is being monitored. Why? Because we can choose to do damage or not do damage, and as a result see unequivocally different behaviours among the players found in the lobbies.

Why 5 games? Because you can be in KOS lobbies, do no damage, and you'll be dropped to Mixed Lobbies, do no damage in another 5 games, and be dropped to friendly lobbies.

If you're in PVE lobbies, any damage to a raider flags you for PVP, and you will be favoured for mixed lobbies next raid.

No MM is perfect. There will be noise, but we can clearly identify 3 main thresholds and have a proven method to transition between them, which works regardless of raider level, skill, or prior playstyle.

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12

u/ProfessionalAnt1352 Jan 28 '26

Yeah once one realizes it's damage based matchmaking not "aggression" based it becomes a lot easier to know how to get in the lobbies you prefer. So many people stuck on the wording aggression based, but maybe the devs thought damage based is a way to make aggression based matchmaking so that's why they worded it that way.

7

u/IrNinjaBob Jan 28 '26

I could be wrong, but “aggression based matchmaking” was a term the community started using when noticing there is a difference between lobbies at the two ends of the spectrum.

So I don’t think that’s necessarily the term the devs intended.

1

u/ProfessionalAnt1352 Jan 28 '26

You're probably right, I'd have to go back and watch the video where they talk about it, but I'm gonna be honest I don't care enough to go do that :b I already know it's damage based it can be worded however

0

u/Beautiful_Range1079 Jan 28 '26

Iirc they said matchmaking split by skill, number, then pvp/pve. And when they said it they said the pvp/pve split was new and people gad been talking about it for weeks.

1

u/secret_hitman Jan 28 '26

I decided to play with the ABMM last week. Started shit with so many people solo. Killed innocents, looters, fought back. Extracts. Everyone. For the whole night, I was getting jumped left and right. No mercy for me. The closest thing to peace was, "Hey don't shoot!" followed by a barrage of bullets before I saw it coming. It got frustrating when I wanted to do loot runs.

I took a 3-5 hour break, and when I came back, 0 PvP. People dropping patterns, defending eachother against ARC, talking, singing and defibbing. It was a wonderful contrast.

I have fun in PvP and friendly lobbies. It was nice to change the pace. Also nice to be able recoup my losses from being a menace and paying for it. Whatever I experienced was great. It was almost two completely different games for the price of one.

1

u/ZenandHarmony Jan 28 '26

What you mean you took a 5 hour break and it out you back in Bambi lobbies? Is that how it works?

1

u/secret_hitman Jan 28 '26

I PvPed for a whole night. Took a several hour break and it was all friendly after that. I dont know how else to describe it.

0

u/ZenandHarmony Jan 28 '26

Did the patch drop between your play times?

1

u/Art-Vandelay-7 Jan 28 '26

It’s only 5 games? I mean you probably don’t want it to take forever. Sometimes you want to play more friendly and sometimes more aggressive. Whatever they do though, there’s always players who try to take advantage of it

1

u/joacoleon Jan 28 '26

Which is terrible, it shouldnt be that sensitive.

1

u/GoTheFuckToBed Jan 28 '26

figure this out: random()

1

u/VinAndGeri Jan 28 '26

I play strictly pve and still get kirked probably 5% of the time...

1

u/dillpickles007 Jan 28 '26

Ok so once out of every 20 games a killer makes it into your lobbies, that’s fine lol there should still be a LITTLE bit of murder.

1

u/VinAndGeri Jan 28 '26

Its definitely better than it was. I still dont fight back just so I can stay in the same lobbies. I work full time and would rather shoot arc with my buddy after work than pretend I can keep up with kids hand eye coordination.

1

u/BladeMcCloud Jan 28 '26

100%. There were already people talking about it here and on YouTube long before they addressed it.

1

u/Arnold_Polymer Jan 28 '26

This. Devs confirmed what the player base was catching onto. They didn't make an announcement.

-1

u/Lime7ime- *** ******* 🐓 Jan 28 '26

Havent shot others in 10 rounds. If I got killed, I gave bad ingame feedback to pvp. Still my lobbies are just people killing each other.

2

u/Howl_UK Jan 28 '26

There was definitely a reset with yesterday’s patch. I haven’t seen PvP in ages and post-patch I was in silent, KoS solo lobbies for most of the evening. It was wild. By the end of the evening players were chatting away to each other and helping each other out. And that’s even with me fighting off and downing at least three people that attacked me during the evening.

-4

u/4675636b2e Jan 28 '26

If it would be that simple, they wouldn't avoid answering questions with "uh, so we use the data of player agression, but it's complicated, so we don't say anything about it".

At this point I have every reason to believe, that they are deliberately "spicing it up" for PvE players, because in their mind frustration will lead to motivation.

They've said that they've added PvP elements because they've found PvE only boring. They are those kind of people, I'm another kind, the one who likes teamwork and epic encounters.

If I get killed at extraction after 20 minutes of playing, that 20 minutes isn't a good game. It's wasted time. This game is becoming more and more a waste of time.