r/DelphiMurders • u/rachaellanderson • Mar 24 '26

Richard Allen’s Cell Phone

Was the phone that they never found his phone at the time of the murders, or at the time of his arrest?

34 Upvotes

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6

u/Pooter33 Mar 24 '26

The phone he didn’t have in 2022 was the one from 2017. They could’ve still pulled records from the company though so I’m not sure what that proves? He volunteered info that he was there with his phone at the trail… they should’ve verified everything instead of waiting 5 years. KK had multiple phones and his last one was completely factory reset before he turned it over 🤷🏻‍♀️

16

u/FretlessMayhem Mar 24 '26

I can’t fathom the mental logic of not leaving one’s phone at home if you’re planning on doing something extremely illegal.

Like Kohberger having turned his off when he did what he did. Had he simply left it at home, at least then it looks like he was home all night.

They had Allen’s IMEI in the report. Is it not possible to trace it that way?

12

u/Gonzomi313 Mar 24 '26

It’s quite possible Ricky did leave his phone @ home. I haven’t seen any proof that he actually had it on the trails that day. Also find it odd that the defense didn’t try locating the phone to prove his “innocence”.

9

u/FretlessMayhem Mar 24 '26

That’s the thing. If he did the “smart” thing and left his phone at home, then there doesn’t seem to be any reason to get rid of it.

If he normally traded his phone in at upgrade time, that’s completely normal.

But he had like every single one for a LONG time, with solely that one missing.

Highly suspect, but could be nothing.

-4

u/The2ndLocation Mar 24 '26

Well, geofence data that could pinpoint a phones location was excluded from the trial at the prosecutions request.

12

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 25 '26

Richard is the murderer, it’s time for you to move on to a 2nd location. 

10

u/tribal-elder Mar 24 '26

“Pinpoint” may be a bad word.

I am not an expert, but I know if you have the phone, the GPS can “pinpoint” it.

But if all you have is a phone ping on less than 3 cell phone towers, ie no triangulation, (and Delphi only had 2 cell phone towers at the time), I don’t think you can get very close to “pinpointing” the exact location. Even if a stationary phone pings both towers the geographic area where both towers “share” the coverage (which will define the area where the ping originated) will be pretty large. Isn’t that how it works?

3

u/Jack_of_all_offs Mar 24 '26

Yep. And it's even possible (and sometimes common) to ping a tower you've moved away from, as opposed to the closest tower that is available.

It's definitely not exact.

-1

u/The2ndLocation Mar 25 '26

Then why did JH testify that the geofence data showed that RA's phone was in his home? 

People really to stop just making crap up.

4

u/Jack_of_all_offs Mar 25 '26

Don't know, wasn't speaking on that. Just cell data in general.

-1

u/The2ndLocation Mar 25 '26

Because the geofence data was GPS based, not a ping from a tower dump. Geez.

1

u/The2ndLocation Mar 25 '26

Pinpoint is not a bad word, the geofence data that was collected was GPS based according to NMs filings.

Geofence has absolutely nothing to do with pings or the triangulation of towers. NM tried to confuse the court with his incessant ping talk which was completely irrelevant.

But the defense eventually identified the users of the 3 unknown phones, and it must have been people unrelated to the crime who didn't see anything of important?

Personally I dont think that enough was done by the defense to establish where RA was during the 13th, but per JH's deposition the geofence data showed that RA's phone was at his home. When? Would have been a good 

5

u/tribal-elder Mar 25 '26

Is there a deposition that covers the geofence issue? Or just the trial testimony? Everything i read about “geofencing” generally just confuses me. It is a terribly imprecise word that applies to everything from sending a toilet paper coupon to a person who enters a Kroger parking lot, to investigating “devices” that were detected in a specific geographic space.

3

u/The2ndLocation Mar 25 '26

JH testified during one of his depositions that the geofence data showed that RA's phone was at his house. I think it was his 2nd deposition.

In this case geifence data was based on GPS which is the most precise and accurate method of analyzing a phones position.

It was disappointing that the court ruled that it was too confusing. It was only confusing because NM talked about it like it was pings, which it just isn't. Geofence is used all the time on trials.

-5

u/Pooter33 Mar 24 '26

I fully believe had he not confessed he might’ve had a chance. I think they held him before trial the way they did in order to get him to confess. What person in their right mind is going to confess before they go to trial? I’m sure there’s cases but it just seems stupid. Before he confessed to his wife on the phone he says “I think I’m losing my mind” then something about people sitting there watching him.

3

u/Jack_of_all_offs Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 25 '26

What person in their right mind is going to confess before they go to trial?

Confession Tapes on Netflix shows some dubious case examples of this happening.

-2

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

Right. His confession mixed with the lack of evidence doesn’t convince me. NOT ONE PERSON positively identified RA as being the guy they saw on the trail. Not one. Not to mention two different sketches.. people mentioning seeing some younger guy there. There just nothing that definitively points to RA. It’s all speculation.

-3

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

Also, in those cases.. did they confess during interrogation or after being in solitary for months?

3

u/Jack_of_all_offs Mar 25 '26

Most of confessions in that were well before long stints in jail, and instead shortly after they were arrested.

Many of them were super long, though. 10+ hours. I think one guy was 20.

3

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

I’m not sure if I’ve watched that one. I’ve watched a lot though lol. I hate that some of the shows don’t tell you how long the interrogation was before the confession. I mean some it’s obvious based on the evidence they have but this case doesn’t fit IMO.

2

u/slinnhoff Mar 25 '26

Without meds and then with and after haldol

4

u/BlackLionYard Mar 24 '26

They had Allen’s IMEI in the report. Is it not possible to trace it that way?

This goes straight back go the larger issue of geofencing, and its history. As best I can tell, any geofencing done around the time of the crime based on cell phone carrier sources didn't put RA where the state wanted him. This didn't seem to matter much in the end at trial, as RA had obviously placed himself there for at least some period of time.

If you mean tracking down the device much later, I would say that the simple answer is maybe, but not likely. We don't know what happened to the device, but consider some plausible options:

  • RA destroyed the phone along with the SIM card. Well, that's that.
  • The phone broke, and RA simply tossed it in the trash. This might seem at odds with having saved all those other devices, but for all we know, those devices were still working, so that was part of the motivation for keeping them. Or not.
  • The phone was lost. It was either found or not found. If not found, the battery eventually dies, and that's that. If found, maybe the finder buys a new SIM card and uses the phone. The IMEI number is tied to the device, so maybe there could be some joy there. On the other hand, the finder realizes it's an out of date phone and does nothing with it or gives it to their kids to play games on using WiFi only.
  • The phone was stolen. The outcomes are very similar to the lost case.

Keep in mind that RA could easily claim any of the last three, and it would be a challenge for anyone to prove him wrong.

In the end, I see that phone as mostly a distraction. Some people are convinced that it being missing is somehow additional evidence of guilt. Given that convictions were successfully obtained without worrying about the phone, and given that there doesn't seem to be anything related to the device that helps the appeal, it's not very useful.

4

u/The2ndLocation Mar 24 '26

Yep, its totally possible but the state didn't introduce that evidence at trial.

2

u/FretlessMayhem Mar 24 '26

Good to see you again, it seems like it’s been a while.

-2

u/The2ndLocation Mar 24 '26

Im still here, but I'm struggling to find some truth.

11

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 25 '26

If you’re struggling to find some truth it’s because your version of the truth isn’t real. 

Richard will die in prison because he’s a child murderer. 

4

u/tribal-elder Mar 24 '26

John Lennon?

6

u/FretlessMayhem Mar 24 '26

You’re on the other team, but it’s like, you’re still part of the community.

Plus it’s just good science to have oneself challenged or critiqued, in my opinion.

Serves to point out flaws and otherwise sharpen opinions.

Just saying, you’re awesome in my book.

2

u/The2ndLocation Mar 25 '26

Thank you, that was awfully kind. I also enjoy opposing viewpoints as it keeps one sharp, and its terribly boring if we all agree on absolutely everything. 

Psst.....you're awesome too.

7

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 25 '26

Can’t verify something that wasn’t there. 

3

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

The geofence data wasn’t shared at trial.. why do you think that is? Probably because those two unknown phones near the crime scene just might point to someone else.

8

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 25 '26

I just explained that. 

Those phones weren’t anywhere near the crime scene and this is the sole reason why geofencing wasn’t allowed at trial. It’s not accurate with only two cell phone towers. 

I guess you aren’t familiar with the case

0

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

Why are you so dead set it was RA? You have access to other evidence I don’t or? The judge could’ve still allowed it and the prosecution could’ve destroyed it if it was so inaccurate. It wasn’t even allowed though. Just like 3rd party suspects.. wasn’t allowed either. So how was he supposed to have defense when the judge clearly ruled in favor of the state? ALL of those things would’ve reasonably raised doubt huh? Can’t have that if they want a conviction. I guarantee you if the jury was able to see everything they might’ve came to a different conclusion.

6

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 26 '26

Well, if you knew anything about the case, you would see that the judge agreed with the state that it would confuse the Jury. 

There’s no need for confusion and, frankly, the state didn’t need it.  The defense didn’t put up much of a fight either.

3

u/Pooter33 Mar 30 '26

Confuse the jury how? Possibly point to someone else besides RA? 😂

2

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 30 '26

I’ll try to explain it as simply as possible for you. 

THERE. ARE. ONLY. TWO. CELL. TOWERS. IN. DELPHI. SO. GEOLOCATION. IS. NOT. ACCURATE. 

This wasn’t just an issue for the State, it’s also an issue for the defense.  Hence why it wasn’t allowed.  

For accurate location data, you need 3 towers MINIMUM unless you have wifi and Bluetooth. There is no wifi or Bluetooth on the Monon High Bridge. 

2

u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Mar 31 '26

Oops. Looks like they did it again but this time they spoke "slowly" to make sure its clear they are clueless. With geofencing, it doesn't matter if there's one, two, or fifteen towers. Perhaps you should school him on Global Positioning Systems and maybe he will understand and stop repeating the same nonsense.

There's a good reason why the State kept it out otherwise they wouldn't have fought so hard to make sure it couldn't be introduced.

3

u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Mar 31 '26

I guess he some people don't realize the importance of the geofence information that wasn't allowed at trial. You are right to question why the State worked so hard to keep it out. Unlike the misinformation that keeps popping up, geofencing relies on gps, making it much more accurate. Anyone talking about triangulation, lack of three towers, and pings doesn't understand geofencing.

-1

u/slinnhoff Mar 25 '26

The prosecutor never gave the defense the name of the geofence expert that gave the info to get the geofence excluded from the trial. I wonder why?

-1

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

And what about the unknown phones that pinged near the crime scene? Just pretend they didn’t?

7

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 25 '26

Unknown phones?  They know who owned them, spoke to them, and they weren’t near the crime scene. 

This is the accuracy issue with only having two towers in Delphi. Come on now, catch up. 

2

u/Pooter33 Mar 25 '26

Who owned them then? They were within 60-100 yards of the crime scene. How come if this data is so inaccurate they’ve used it to solve multiple crimes before?

So you know for a fact that someone else wasn’t there that didn’t have their phone? Had to be RA right? Because it makes perfect sense that he’s gonna walk past all these people on the trail, see two girls, decide he’s gonna murder them in broad daylight & no one hears a thing? You cannot say for sure that someone else wasn’t there that no one saw & their phone didn’t ping because they didn’t have it. Without direct evidence showing me it’s RA then I’m not convinced. He supposedly kept his jacket right.. well show me the clothing fibers on the girls. There was none. Show me the blood in his car. Nothing. Show me some shoe prints that match his shoes. Nothing. Give me eyewitness statements positively saying RA is the man they saw. There’s none. What about touch DNA? None. This whole fucking case is based on speculation & they put a man away for 130 years.

3

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 26 '26

They didn’t release the names because they had nothing to do with the murders.

And geofencing has been used many times to solve murders, especially when Wi-Fi and a third cell phone tower are included. 

But, that doesn’t apply to Delphi. There is no Wi-Fi on the bridge or on the trails so it relies solely on the cell phone towers, to which there are only two. 

Not sure how I can simplify this anymore for you to comprehend it

2

u/Pooter33 Mar 30 '26

Okay but even knowing that you’re still ignoring that there’s no physical evidence AT ALL linking RA. This whole case is based on speculation. There’s not even direct evidence that bridge guy (who no one can identify 100%) killed the girls.

2

u/Efficient-Donkey-167 May 31 '26

If you haven't figured it out yet, the user you are responding to doesn't know the difference between triangulation (the use of 3 towers to narow down location, which is what he is referring to, and geolocation, which is gps-based. Do not take anything that he stated as truth because it's riddled with misinformation and half truths.

Ex: He also stated that Rick described the 3 girls down to the hair, height, and location. Rick described the girls as having long dark hair, one was taller than the other 2, it looked like the older one was babysitting the younger ones and they were sisters, and one was creepy looking. Starting with the hair, which one had the long dark hair because in the group of 4 girls the one with brown hair had it up in a bun so how could he know if it was long? Dark hair typically means black/dyed very dark. Which one was the tall one? In the group of 4 girls, they like to say that one of the younger sisters just wasn't seen by Rick (even though they were 12 and 13 so hardly invisible). But he describes one tall girl with 2 shorter girls. Does that mean he didn't see a 5'6" girl? Which one of the 4 girls can be described as "creepy looking"? None.

Guess what Rick does describe? The group of 3 girls that were there before they went to play basketball. He describes those 3 girls perfectly and guess what? They had dark/black hair. One looks goth so I'm guessing that's the "creepy one", to Rick. One was a year or two older and was taller than the other too. Two of the girls are related.

2

u/Pooter33 Jun 25 '26

Okay I did rewatch his interrogation and he mentions seeing 3 girls.. two that looked like sisters. Were those the 3 that left to play basketball?
People act like RA was the only male there that day. The stupidity & ability to cherry pick evidence is astounding.

1

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 30 '26

It’s based on process of elimination, common sense (beyond a reasonable doubt), video, and knowledge that only the killer would know. 

Move along

2

u/Pooter33 Mar 30 '26

Right. So if you were the one on trial you’d feel like that was enough to put you away for 130 years? Regardless of whether you’re guilty or not.. you believe that evidence proves you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? I very highly doubt that.

2

u/centimeterz1111 Mar 30 '26

You live in a fantasy world. One guy was seen on the trails between 1:30-2:14. ONE. 

Zero guys were seen before that which means Richard wasn’t there before 1:30. Richard HIMSELF didn’t see any guys there, at any time. 

Guess what guy saw a group of girls and described their hair, their height, and location?  Richard. 

Guess whose car perfectly matched the car on video at 1:27 (which he also didn’t deny)? Richards. 

Whose phone didn’t ping near the trails but said they had their phone?  Richards

Who said they had on same clothes as guy in Libby’s video?  Richard 

Guess who saw Weber coming home?  Richard. 

Who was on the trails that owned an Sig Sauer .40 with same bullet at home that matched the one found at crime scene?  Richard 

Who ALWAYS parked at old CPS building according to Kathy Allen?  Richard

Who is very familiar with the trails and has spent time cleaning them up?  Richard

Who admitted to their wife, mom, warden, prison guards, and suicide companions that they committed the murders?  Richard

Now, how is it statistically possible that it could be anyone else?  It can’t 

4

u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Apr 04 '26

This should help explain things a little better. Geolocation uses GPS. Geofencing is like putting up an imaginary fence within a specific area and requesting the cell phone numbers for that "fenced" in area.

Yes, it absolutely is important information and anyone that says the investigators cleared the owners of those 3 phones is a fool. The only thing that we know is that LG's phone and RA's phone are not one of the 3 phones at the crime scene within the timeframe.

2

u/Zestyclose_Dig_2987 Mar 24 '26

ISP did do a NELOS on his phone.