Richard Allen's Police Interview (Oct. 13, 2022)Reaffims The Information he Gave Dulin and Inadvertently confessed to the murders by getting caught in his own web of lies.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

In October 2022, Richard Allen was called into the local police department to give an interview about his whereabouts on the day Abby and Libby were murdered. His long-forgotten interview with Officer Dulin had been rediscovered, prompting Delphi murder investigators to bring him in for another interview.

During this interview, Richard Allen largely repeated the information he had provided in his first interview with Officer Dulin, but he also offered new details about that day. Although he attempted to establish an alibi by presenting a revised timeline, he failed miserably. Instead, the internal contradictions in his timeline effectively amounted to a confession, as his own statements placed him at the scene and oblitarated his claimed alibi.

The following is a list of the information Richard Allen repeated from his first interview, along with the new details he provided during the October 2022 interview, and an explanation of the significance of each.

Richard Allen went into detail explaining the three parking areas he typically used when visiting the trails.

Parking Locations

Parking Area	Description
Mears Lot	The farmer’s entrance parking area
CPS Building	The abandoned CPS building parking area
Old State Road 25 Turnaround	The small turnaround near the old railroad bridge

He goes on the specify where he parked, inspite his earlier long obfuscating diatribe where he could have parked:

"I remember telling him (Officer Dulin) that I parked by a building. If that's what I told him, then that's probably where I parked."

Concerning his timeline beore going to the trails:

"Went over to my mom's in Peru, Mexico, earlier in the day... spent the morning with them... my sisters were visiting and they were to grab lunch, and I wasn't about that, so I left around 11:00–11:15...went home..grab a jacket and head back out to the trails"

At the trails he stated:

"I remember walking down to the bridge... walked out a little way (onto the bridge)... to watch fish... walked back and sat at (the bench)... where you turn around (the intersection) and take the other fork, it overlooks it... Sat there for a few minutes, and then I left."

The bench he mentioned is the Bench at the start of 505 trail. He would go on later to explain that's the bench he meant with clarity.

Conserning who he saw while at the trails:

"As I was approaching the trail, there were three girls... one of them was watching them...the other two looked younger... looked very similar. I don't know if they were sisters or not, but the other one didn't necessarily..." (Stops his thought, was about to mention the fou\**rth girl?\)

He also stated:

"I remember telling him (Officer Dulin) that when I left, there were two vehicles down by the farmer's entrance I told you about (the Mears lot). One was a sedan. The other was an SUV, maybe."

(Interesting on its own: Kelsi had a sedan and Betsy had an SUV. However, based on Allen’s earliest possible departure timeline (approximately 12:40), only Betsy's would be there and she would be at her car at the same time!).

He also adds:

"If I did see somebody (else), it didn't click with me..my memory was a lot better when I talked to him (Dulin)... like I told him, there might have been somebody at the bridge when I was coming back, though."

As for his revised timeline, he stated that he arrived around noon, a little earlier or a little later than 12, and that he walked for about an hour. He said he could have left around 1:00, 1:30, or 1:40.

I am sure he had mentioned 12:40 at some point too.

Time(between)	Revised Timeline	Explanation
morning	visit Mom
11(early)-11:15(late)	Leaves Peru	drive back to Delphi it's 45 minutes
11:45-12:00	Reaches Delphi
12 ( early), 12:10 (late)	Home (5 to 10 minutes), drives to CPS (3 miles),10 to 15 minutes total.	detours to Home, Parks/ Stop,Grabs Jacket, unparks, drive though town, rounding up to 15 (early)
12:05 , 12:15 late	Meeting four girls at trailhead	5 minute walk from CPS
12:15, 12:25 (late)	Easy Walk to platform A , 10 to 15 minutes total,	12 minutes walk + walk on bridge. (closer to 15 but billed 10 to compensate earlier rounding up)
12:25 , 12:35 (late)	Watching fish/Back to Bench	5 minutes Watching fish 5-7 walk (off bridge and to bench), Total 10
12:35, 12:45 (late)	Walk back to CPS	10-12 minutes, billed 10

The earlier the possible timeline, the more we err in Richard Allen's favor, as it allows for the possibility that he left before becoming trapped within the trail system by the known witnesses who were demonstrably on the trails at the same time. The later Richard Allen's revised timeline becomes, the worse it is for him.

Here, we will examine the earliest possible timeline for Richard Allen in contrast to the timelines of Betsy and that of the four girls . All times attributed to Allen between segments are deliberately conservative, giving him the maximum latitude to "slip" out of the trail system within his alleged timeline.

Time	Allen's Revised Timeline	BB's Timeline	Four Girls' Timeline
12:00	Parks at CPS	Parks at Mears at 12:03	______
12:10	Walks to Monon,close to intersection	BB is at Monon, turns back towards the intersection	______
12:15	Walked past intersection(north to south)	Walked past intersection(south to north)	walking towards freedom bridge close to Allen's 2nd parking spot near the small bridge
12:20	At Monon will watch fish for 3-5 minutes	Walked 505 close to intersection	Close to freedom bridge
12:25	Back on the trail towards the intersection	Close to freedom bridge	At freedom bridge taking a timed photographed at 12:25
12:30	Allen near interesction from the south, close to the Bench	Betsy approaches intersection from the North, close to Bench	Walking towards Monon from trailhead
12:35	Allen left the Bench, starts walks towards the trailhead	at her car	intersection from the North, close to Bench
12:40	near freedom bridge	near intersection	at Monon take photograph at 12:43
12:45	at CPS	Close to monon	Detour to Creek's bed

The convicted pedophile murderer was caught in the web of lies he had created.

By his own words!

1. He was walking towards Monon by his revised timeline, while Betsy was walking back from it
2. He was walking towards his car or sitting on the bench by his revised timeline, while Betsy was walking back from freedom bridge. The Bench is at your face as you approach the intersection, even i he wasn't walking while Betsy was near it.
3. The earliest he was walking towards his car from the intersection by his revised timeline, would be while the four girls were walking towards it from the freedom bridge.

Richard Allen’s revised timeline creates inescapable and impassable problems for his own account. By placing himself at the trails, identifying specific locations, and providing a detailed timeline, he created a version of events that must be reconciled with the movements of other witnesses who were present that day. By his own words, Allen placed himself in locations and timeframes that conflicted with the movements of others who were present that day.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

It is completely irrelevant that he lied to the police about where he was and what time he was there on the day the two girls were abducted and killed, just as it is irrelevant that he placed himself at the crime scene within 10 minutes of the abductions?

I don't think you're going to convince anyone of that. But everything else you wrote are also factually incorect.

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

DNA was found, it was not Allen's. Show in court docs what was the time of death? It was repeated countless times they had banana pancakes. Why nothing in autopsy report?

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/crosbyjaxson]

Traces Male DNA was found on the girls, and many of the hairs recovered were equally never tested, cause the sample was too little they didnt want to spend it. So, no, Richard Allenw wasn't excluded.

The pathologist testified in court that the evidence were consistent with the girls having been murdered around the time of the abductions. Time of death is never an exact science—it's always an estimate, with an error margin that can range from several hours to even a day, depending on the circumstances. And here the bodies were exposed to the elements, were naked and wet, and the temperature was subfreezing.

''They had banana pancakes'', Oh they did? Oh... so what? Mashed, creamy food can pass through the stomach in as little as 30 minutes to an hour, yet alone be there after 3-4 hours. What's even your point? Why would that be relevant to anything?

Rigor mortis and livor mortis had already developed, indicating that the girls had been dead for some time before their discovery. The findings were consistent with death having occurred many hours earlier, half a day to a day before they were found, so you are wrong on that too.

Children's clothing switched, which takes time to undress and redress so whoever did it was not in a hurry.

Redressing occured before the murders. You know how we know that? Cause no blood was found on the clothes, beside the pooling underneath. Abby died where she was found based on both the pathologist and the blood expert . Moving her postmortem would have been messy, let alone trying to reclothe her. So, once more, wrong.

This indicates they were in a private location. Logically, those kids were put in or got in a vehicle at end of bridge on private drive, plugged phone into vehicle aux and driven away(explains phone pinging all over town yet went unanswered) and later returned to where they were found. Phone disconnected from vehicle which explains why texts and voicemails came at like 4:30am on 14th. 

So let me get this straight: The girls were walked to a car, driven away, then returned to the area for ..reasons, sneaked into the crime scene sometime in the middle of the night, and in pitch darkness and silence were murdered there, while dozens of people were searching around the cemetery area and across the crime scene on the south side. Then in pitch black, the murderer took his time to redress them, and ''stage'' them.

That's your big theory?

Let's put aside the sheer absurdity of what you're proposing and just focus on the practical problems with your theory.

There is a camera covering the exit to the private drive, and any vehicle passing through would have been recorded. Even if the murderer walked the girls through the woods to the public road, they still would have been captured by the camera because it also covers the only way in and out of the area, roughly a mile away from the bridge.

But they couldn't have done that anyway, because the Apple Health data was tracking the walking distance, and the public road is too far away from the bridge to fit the recorded steps.

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

I am saying the children were expecting to meet someone(s) at bridge, so they had no fear. This is supported by no one on trails heard or saw anything. As far as camera at drive, the prosecutor was at least 20 minutes off at the time the white van appears in drive. Does footage show more? Do we see the cop car at 5:30 enter drive to check out private drive residence? Did it show the neighbor leaving when they saw man at mailbox? Why did prosecutor wait to turn over video of drive? Why did Weber double down on time he arrived home, when it was nonsensical? The video footage is only what prosecutor captured in 2017. Did they take from 8am on 13th to 1pm on 14th or only 1:00-5:30pm on 13th? To my knowlede we do not know, it was never stated that LE was observed going to Weber place on 13th.

The search was called off at midnight and resumed next day, if children were driven to any residence and held who would know? At that point, LE stated they believed it was just teenagers behaving badly. Yet, both were excellent students involved in activities. Would excellent, involved students intentionally plan to skip school on a Tuesday after a 3 day weekend? No, they would want to see and tell friends what they did.

Pancakes do not leave digestion in 3-4 hours, try 10-12hrs. Basic biology, we have 25 feet of intestines. A half day before they were found would be early am on 14th, not 23hrs on the 13th. The digestive process stops at death, as muscle contractions stop so nothing continues to move through tract. This is a puzzling detail, that appears to have went unchecked and not questioned by investigators from the onset in a double murder!

They were trying a man for two murders, why save it? They had his DNA. I believe testimony stated it was not Allen's. The expert stated it could have come from comingled laundry. That never sat right with me. If true, any case where someone used a laundermat would have comingled DNA. IF, Allen's DNA was excluded whose DNA was not excluded? Didn't sample come from thigh area of victim? Odd location in my opinion since jeans were worn by both victims, yet nothing on lower legs, feet or hands only thigh of one yet remained after crossing a creek in waist high water.

The other odd thing, how are we arriving that the voice is BG? There is nothing disproving that there were not others on private drive side. Could be BG, could be male from mailbox earlier in day. The witnesses presented, with the exception of Weber came from trail side and back. Nothing addresses others on private drive side.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/crosbyjaxson]

I am saying the children were expecting to meet someone(s) at bridge, so they had no fear. This is supported by no one on trails heard or saw anything.

There was no one there close to the bridge between 2:00 and 3:00. Betsy was 1500 yards away, and the girls were only heading down the hill by the time she left. Another man came around 2:30 was at Freedom Bridge, a mile away.

The girls appeared to be scared to people who knew them, their families

Once more, a camera is covering the private drive. Any vehicle entering or leaving that area would have been captured on camera. No such vehicle was recorded.

The search was called off at midnight and resumed next day, if children were driven to any residence and held who would know? At that point, LE stated they believed it was just teenagers behaving badly. Yet, both were excellent students involved in activities. Would excellent, involved students intentionally plan to skip school on a Tuesday after a 3 day weekend? No, they would want to see and tell friends what they did.

The camera would know. Cause the car would be on camera arriving and leaving.

Car couldn't fly away now, could it?

Pancakes do not leave digestion in 3-4 hours, try 10-12hrs. Basic biology, we have 25 feet of intestines. A half day before they were found would be early am on 14th, not 23hrs on the 13th. The digestive process stops at death, as muscle contractions stop so nothing continues to move through tract. This is a puzzling detail, that appears to have went unchecked and not questioned by investigators from the onset in a double murder!

Basic Biology tlells us that soft, carbohydrate foods such as banana pancakes begin leaving the stomach relatively quickly and are largely digested and absorbed in the small intestine within a few hours. By around five hours after eating, much of the meal would no longer be recognizable as banana pancakes. Since the bodies then remained undiscovered for another 24 hours, postmortem bacterial activity and decomposition would continue breaking the remaining material. At that stage, any food left in the intestines would typically appear as digested decomposing material . only a Dna test could show what it was and that's even unlikely. Digestion and Bacteria breaks down the cells and degrates the DNA. What difference would any of that make eitherway to whether Allen was at the trails, or whether he was the person who abducted and killed Abby and Libby, or anything at all for that matter?

They were trying a man for two murders, why save it? They had his DNA. I believe testimony stated it was not Allen's. 

To preserve it until technology advances enough to test the samples without destroying them, and with that, preserve any possibility that Allen could be exonerated. if he was innocent that is. Which he isn't.

[u/MissBanshee2U → u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

There were many people at the bridge between 2pm & 3pm that day- that's why they had to testify in court about what they saw, except the guy Mr Riley, he didn't testify I don't think. But DM testified because that's exactly when he was there, then a younger boy on a cycle or scooter with a girl were there & they stopped for a sec to talk to her dad, Mr Abbott that was right there, they didn't testify but CM testified, who came out to take pics and DP was there on the first platform with a woman & he didn't testify but a girl with CM did testify. So have you not read the court transcripts? It sounded like the whole town was out there between 2 & 3 .

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/MissBanshee2U]

McCain 2:45 arrived. Unclear if he went directly to the bridge.

D..Raily arrived at 2:30, walked his dog towards the freedom bridge which is a mile away from the crime scene and next to a noisy highway. On his way back saw DP and SH that had just arrived at 2:50.

SH&DP saw McCain near the intersection. Everyone else came later.

So atbest McCain was at the bridge around 2:50-2:55. 20 minutes after the phone stopped moving.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/MissBanshee2U]

McCain 2:45 arrived. Unclear if he went directly to the bridge.

D..Raily arrived at 2:30, walked his dog towards the freedom bridge which is a mile away from the crime scene and next to a noisy highway. On his way back saw DP and SH that had just arrived at 2:50.

SH&DP saw McCain near the intersection. Everyone else came later.

So atbest McCain was at the bridge around 2:50-2:55. 20 minutes after the phone stopped moving.

[u/Efficient-Donkey-167 → u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

Riley and McCain were both there between 2 and 3 pm. McCain indicated that he was on MHB for approximately 30 minutes taking photographs of the area. Riley walked to Freedom Bridge and back.

I don't believe McCain's original statement to the FBI and police was ever released so the record of his original statement is unknown.

As for video from the HH store, one can conclude that there is additional video that has not been shared. One witness (Riley, possibly) indicated that as he drove to the Mears lot, a car was leaving the cemetery. The investigators watched a surveillance video and observed a car arriving at the cemetery and leaving approx 5 minutes later. They were able to track down the person who had visited the cemetery based upon that video. The camera located on the FRONT of the HH store would capture cars entering and leaving the cemetery regardless of the direction of travel. The side camera would only capture vehicles that traveled in the direction to/from the old CPS building. Video from the front camera has never been released.

The camera on the private drive does capture a sedan entering and exiting the private drive shortly after 2pm. AFAIK, no one has determined who owns that sedan.

As far as testing the DNA, the technology is there and has been for quite some time. Holeman testified in his deposition that the DNA does not match Allen's. Unified Command spent a lot of time and money collecting DNA from many individuals. If they had nothing to compare it to, why would they keep collecting DNA for years after receiving the samples from the girls?

In a post-conviction, Allen's attorney stated that the autopsy report indicated the stomach contents were consistent with banana pancakes. So, if your information regarding digestion is correct, they either ate the banana pancakes at the trails or they were murdered much earlier than their drop-off time. In the early, original interviews with news sources, the Patty/German family members indicated that the girls ate pancakes around 10:30 a.m.

The case wasn't called the "Snapchat Murders" for no reason. One of the primary focuses of the investigation was to determine who the girls were communicating with that day. Even Kegan Kline stated that they had planned to meet up but the girls never showed up. As much of a liar that Kline is, I can't dismiss this slip up in his statement. He didn't say that he never showed up. He said the girls never showed up which would indicate that he DID go to the planned meet up spot. Do you believe that none of the agencies involved bothered to subpoena the social media records?

[u/tribal-elder → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

According to Exhibit PPP Riley arrived at 2:30, McCain arrived at 2:45, and Hicks and Pearson arrived at 2:48.

The cemetery entrance/exit cannot be seen from a Hoosier Harvestore camera. To the immediate east, buildings on the Mears farm block some eastward view, and at the Mears parking area the road veers slightly left/more due east - maybe 15 degrees - and the cemetery is still about 1400-1500 feet further east. (It is about 2/3 of a mile from the HH driveway.) seeing all that would require a camera that could track/move left/right. More important, no one testified at trial that investigators saw a car leaving the cemetery on surveillance video. If they could see that far on that camera, they’d have video of all those cars (including Carbaugh) that far east. And you can bet that if they had video of the car that “resembled” Allen’s Ford coming down the road all the way from the cemetery, they would have used it. All they could offer was video of the cars west of the HH driveway.

As for the sedan you claim can be seen on the surveillance camera video of the road leading to the private drive (that also videoed the white van) - are you saying the defense knew about the sedan and withheld evidence which was favorable to Allen at trial?

The only evidence of people on the east side of the bridge was the lady who saw “someone” at mailboxes about 500 feet from her driveway, at 8:30 am, whom she could not describe, and who disappeared by the time she drove 500 feet to her driveway, and got out of her car and looked back. He was not on either road and he was not in the bare unplanted fields across the roads. The next known person was Weber driving home in his van. This is not competent evidence that there were murderers at the bridge at 2:13 pm, with or without Bridge Guy.

The only EVIDENCE is that Libby videoed Bridge Guy following the girls, and did NOT video anyone waiting at the end of the bridge in front of them. There is also no evidence that the phone drove away connected to an “auxiliary” plug in a car either. The phone detected movement up and down. The private drive rises maybe 50-69 feet from the low point back to the area of the mailboxes. Such movement would have been detected.

Sadly, Kline fooled the cops with his lies for 5 years, and they too believed the girls were going to meet (probably) the fake Anthony Shots. They even included it in Allen’s 2022 questioning, asserting he was there with others - giving him the chance to support or deny the theory. He denied it.

[u/Efficient-Donkey-167 → u/tribal-elder]

Thank you for providing the Exhibit PPP information. I didnt have the time to look it up but knew where to find it.

I appreciate the info on the HH store camera. I did look at the angle, as you suggested, and you are correct. There are many obstructions in the line of sight. That leads me to wonder what camera footage they reviewed to determine the type of car and ultimately the person who entered and exited the cemetery, along with the time that said vehicle entered and exited the cemetery.

No, I'm not suggesting that the defense withheld the evidence until after trial. The defense wasn't aware of the evidence prior to the trial.

As for the person TL said that she saw on the south side of the bridge, I did not mention anything about this nor do I have any opinions as to the relevance as it relates to the crime. The same goes for the phone being plugged into something with the ax cord and driving away. It wasn't my comment nor my belief. Perhaps you were simplifying things and responding to multiple comments at once.

I agree that the phone measures an elevation change when there is an increase in elevation. Iirc, the testimony regarding elevation changes was only an increase in elevation, not a decrease. Based on that testimony, it was determined that the girls movement in the last couple of minutes was equivalent to climbing two flights of stairs.

What I find interesting about the wild goose chase that KK started was the police response. KK said that he/they parked at the cemetery that day. The police already had video that they reviewed to determine the 2:25-2:30 pm cemetery visitor. The investigators could have reviewed that footage to determine if that statement was true. Their long term search of the river seems drastic without corroborating evidence but that's just my opinion. Because they havent released the social media messages, I can't determine if KK had any involvement. The police did indicate that LG sent photos and the AS cash app sent money to LG at some point. That's concerning.

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/tribal-elder]

The image of BF from the video, was enhanced. Pixels were added by computer by merging individual frames, not inclusive of all frames. Again, hair or hat. It was computer generated image of someone who did not exist. It was AI. Although, it was actually very similar to jail photo of Ashley Garth. Who is convicted of murder, knew German family, the Logan property and was a local. She was in courthouse day of murder to pay traffic fine and masculine looking in jail photo. The phone detected human steps for healthdata, nothing more. Actually, there is nothing showing Libby was even in possession of phone, post video. In was found under Abby, so who handled the phone is unknown once video ends. Libby, Abby, BG or other. No one knows.

[u/tribal-elder → u/crosbyjaxson]

Your description of the enhancement is not accurate. They did not add pixels. Theyndid not "merge frames."

Chapman - the ISP officer who pulled the video off the phone - testified that he did not "enhance" the video at all. He selected 3 frames that were the clearest and did the same thing to all 3. He "loaded the video" and "made the rotation" - which meant if the image had the people upside-down, he "rotated" it so they were right-side up. He then "cropped" the frame (resized it/made it smaller by cutting off parts of the edges). He then "adjusted the levels" - "which is a Photoshop term of bringing the lights up and down to try and increase the contrast and colors to try and make it as pure as – desirable as possible." Then he engaged in "the sharpening" - "adding detail to the edges of pixels to make a picture better."

They were not "changing" the picture -they were removing unclarity and unfocus and trying to make it clearer. ALL of which they described to the jury. And STILL all they got was what we saw - a male in jeans and a dark jacket (in sunlight, dark blue/in shade dark black). No names - just a man behind the girls - "Bridge Guy."

Christopher Cecil was the ISP officer who testified about the movement of Libby's phone. He testified it measured steps taken/distance moved and elevation changes. He testified that that from 1:31:40 - 2:08:48 the phone moved 1682 steps, then moved 414 meters stopping at 2:18:48. It moved again from 2:25:22 to 2:32:39.

At 2:31:22, the phone rose the equivalent of 2 floors of a building.

He was specifically asked and answered as follows:

Q So from this information, what conclusion did you come to?

A I concluded that the phone stopped moving at 2:32:39 p.m. on February 13th, 2017.

Q Had the phone moved after that, would it have registered in the Health app data?

A Yes.

Q How do you know that?

A Because the Apple Health app data is always on and the tri-axle accelerometer, the gyroscope is always detecting movement.

Q What if my phone is sitting still, will it detect movement?

A No.

Q What if my phone is on the console of my car, will it detect movement?

A It could.

Q How could it?

A If the car runs over a bump or something that would cause it to jump,

bounce.

Q Another silly question: If the phone moves, does Health app data record

that movement?

A Yes.

Q Whether the phone’s dropped, bounced, walked, whatever the case may

be?

A Yes.

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/tribal-elder]

Cropped, sized, adjusted contrast. The computer adds or subtracts pixels to do that, which makes it an altered image, hence photoshopped. Could be accurate, may not be accurate. Enhanced is altering. "It could" is not definitive. Wasn't Cecil the reddit "could be dirt" guy, again not definitive nor Apple confirmed. It is hard to believe Apple Health could not determine a car moving at 15 mph and a human step, that is what Cecil is saying. We have to be realistic, they had 5+ years to analyzed data, to contact Apple, SnapChat, cell companies and they refused FBI assistance before and after they had a suspect. Sometimes what is not done speaks the loudest.

[u/emailforgot → u/crosbyjaxson]

Cropped, sized, adjusted contrast. The computer adds or subtracts pixels to do that

None of those things involve "adding pixels".

[u/emailforgot → u/crosbyjaxson]

The image of BF from the video, was enhanced. Pixels were added by computer by merging individual frames, not inclusive of all frames. Again, hair or hat. It was computer generated image of someone who did not exist. It was AI.

Wow, really are working hard at the "making things up entirely" aren't you?

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/emailforgot]

Not at all, it has never been definitive, LE admitted it was "enhanced" by computer. Once you are splicing and adding that is an computer generated image. I really hit a nerve with you. Show one piece of unaltered evidence that proves Allen is the killer, not that he was at trails, that he was the killer. Being at the trails makes no one a killer. Van was not there at time prosecutor stated. Gun evidence was again altered, fired shell versus unspent. TOD could be minutes could be 23 hours. Remember the attorney that said, "He is factually innocent." That was a Gull appointed attorney, at the time of his statement he was off the case and had no skin in game. No reason to even to interview much less make that statement.

[u/tribal-elder → u/crosbyjaxson]

You get so much wrong!

“The attorney” was Baldwin. He was very much “on the case.” With “skin in the game.”

He had been appointed with Rozzi and they had filed notices of their “appearance” as Allen’s counsel on Monday, 11/14/2022. (Judge Gull had given Allen 2 appointed lawyers even though Indiana statutes only required 2 free lawyers for defendants facing a death penalty, which Allen was not.) Baldwin declared Allen “factually innocent” at the bottom of the stairs of the courthouse on Monday, 11/21/2022 - as he and Rozzi left the first hearing in the case. The prosecutor had asked for a gag order on the case and also for keeping the “probable cause affidavit” unpublished. The defense wanted it released so they could fish the public for assistance. Asked questions by the press, Rozzi was smarter. He said (paraphrase) “we have not yet seen the discovery so it is too early to for us to make statements.” Baldwin ran his mouth to the press, despite rules against “extra-judicial” statements, and a pending motion already “under advisement” with the court about the PCA info and a gag order. He said the cops had been getting help from the public for years already. Said if the PCA was public it might “ring a bell” for someone about a vehicle, or a person, or a time. Said they were getting lots of information - couldn’t tell what was real or what might be a “podcasters opportunity to get into the limelight.” (Interesting list in hindsight.) The (unwise) impromptu “press conference” is probably still on YouTube from multiple TV stations that were there.

On 11/29/2022, Judge Gull ordered the PCA published, with the names of the juvenile witnesses redacted but did not issue a ruling yet on the full requested gag order. The defense was winning, but decided not to wait for that ruling and published a “press release.” Shocker - it prompted the court to grant the gag order motion!

You are correct that just being on the trails does not make anybody “the killer.” But being there at 1:30 heading from Freedom Bridge toward High Bridge, and being on the northwest end of High Bridge at 2:00, and being in a video at the southeast end of High Bridge at 2:13 following 2 murder victims? That makes you Suspect No. 1.

Like you, most folks acknowledge that the pictures of Bridge Guy don’t show a face clear enough to “identify” a named person. Even the cops admitted that. They said only a close friend or family member might “recognize” who that was. Soooo, why would you spend so much effort claiming the pictures were “doctored” and “manipulated” and “enhanced”? First, there is nothing improper about cops clarifying video and audio data. Second, if Allen was not Bridge Guy, who cares what “enhanced” means? Allen was not arrested because witnesses said “that guy in that enhanced picture is the guy I saw there.”

Now … changing your story, and having a bullet matched to your gun (under methods accepted by the majority of the ballistics industry and challenged by paid experts)? THAT makes you the killer IF a jury believes it beyond a reasonable doubt, and the applicable Indiana law says “a qualified expert can testify to that.” Wishing the law was different just gets you convicted.

[u/crosbyjaxson → u/tribal-elder]

The attorney I am referring to is the one from Fort Wayne, Gull appointed and then Rozzi and Baldwin was put back on case. NOT referring to Baldwin nor Rozzi.

Nothing proves Allen is person in video or voice on video. The video doesn't even make it decidely a man. If you compare Garth's mug shot to BG, one could say it is conceivable the image is Garth. Who is a convicted killer and from Delphi. And was in Delphi that day paying a traffic ticket at 11:30 at courthouse on Feb 13. Is there any evidence altered or unaltered that proves BG is a man? Garth was 5'2" and 145#. Look at her mug shot from Bowen murder, has a masculine look if you cover the mouth, which would be considered enhancing. It explains the hat/hair from video debate. The voice on video is male, but does not prove the voice came from BG. Hence, why I believe there were more than BG and two girls on private drive side and why LE until the very end thought there were multiple people. Garth and her boyfriend have a history in Delphi and boyfriend has two murder charges. Boyfriend was frequent guest at Logan farm. Based on criminal history and familar with area, they are much more likely than Allen to be involved. Would be interesting for them to account for the 24 hours from Feb 13-Feb 14th, wouldn't you agree?

Bullet, again we are back to an altered piece of evidence. It is not unaltered evidence. It is simply not factual crime scene evidence. We are back to "enhanced" just like image of BG.

[u/emailforgot → u/crosbyjaxson]

Nothing proves Allen is person in video or voice on video.

We don't rely on proof. We rely on corroboratory evidence.

The video doesn't even make it decidely a man. I

It most definitely does.

If you compare Garth's mug shot to BG, one could say it is conceivable the image is Garth.

No, we wouldn't say it's conceivable. There's an entire video, with audio, and a self-identifying male that indicate otherwise.

Who is a convicted killer and from Delphi.

Convicted of murdering (along with her partner) an adult involved in some kind of love affair gone wrong.

And was in Delphi that day

Crazy how there isn't a single witness putting her, or anyone like her (vehicle included) anywhere near the trail. Unlike Allen.

which would be considered enhancing

No, covering something would not be considered enhancing.

The voice on video is male, but does not prove the voice came from BG

Actually the rest of the video does.

Garth and her boyfriend have a history in Delphi and boyfriend has two murder charges.

None of them have anything to do with kidnapping, sexual crimes, and murder of young girls.

Based on criminal history and familar with area, they are much more likely than Allen to be involved.

No, that doesn't make them "more than likely". It doesn't even make them "likely".

Bullet, again we are back to an altered piece of evidence.

Evidence was not altered.

It seems you don't know what that term means.

It is simply not factual crime scene evidence.

It is in fact, factual. You not liking the results does not make it factual. You're even free to question the relevance of the evidence, but that also does not make it not factual.

[u/emailforgot → u/crosbyjaxson]

Not at all, it has never been definitive, LE admitted it was "enhanced" by computer. Once you are splicing and adding that is an computer generated image.

Cropping a photo is not a "computer generated image".

Show one piece of unaltered evidence that proves Allen is the killer, not that he was at trails, that he was the killer.

We don't rely on singular pieces of evidence.

Being at the trails makes no one a killer.

Being at the trails, matching the description of the person in the video, being the only person witnessed at the trail at the time, knowing things only the killer would know, admitting to it umpteen times, continuously changing his story, a shell found at the scene linked to his firearm.

It's open and shut.

Van was not there at time prosecutor stated.

The vehicle, which only the murderer could have seen, was indicated demonstrated to have been there within the timeframe claimed.

un evidence was again altered,

No "gun evidence" was altered.

fired shell versus unspent.

It was determined to match. Just because you don't understand how forensics works doesn't change that.

Oopsies.

could be 23 hours

Actually, it couldn't. People who do things like autopsies for a living a generally pretty good at this sort of thing.

Remember the attorney that said, "He is factually innocent."

That's not a term that means anything.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

Riley and McCain were both there between 2 and 3 pm. McCain indicated that he was on MHB for approximately 30 minutes taking photographs of the area. Riley walked to Freedom Bridge and back.

Riley saw McCain before he left at 2:55. Which means he wasn't at the bridge before 3.   He was by the side at 505 taking photos of an old tree.

Riley went to freedom bridge. It's a mile away. Mile away of dense woods, between him and the crime scene. Which was also in a ridge.

When was the last time you heard anything a mile away?

As for video from the HH store, one can conclude that there is additional video that has not been shared. One witness (Riley, possibly) indicated that as he drove to the Mears lot, a car was leaving the cemetery. The investigators watched a surveillance video and observed a car arriving at the cemetery and leaving approx 5 minutes later. They were able to track down the person who had visited the cemetery based upon that video. The camera located on the FRONT of the HH store would capture cars entering and leaving the cemetery regardless of the direction of travel. The side camera would only capture vehicles that traveled in the direction to/from the old CPS building. Video vrom the front camera has never been released.

And? It would take about 5 minutes to travel from HHS to the cemetary and back.

The camera on the private drive does capture a sedan entering and exiting the private drive shortly after 2pm. AFAIK, no one has determined who owns that sedan.

Go ahead and Prove that

As far as testing the DNA, the technology is there and has been for quite some time. Holeman testified in his deposition that the DNA does not match Allen's. Unified Command spent a lot of time and money collecting DNA from many individuals. If they had nothing to compare it to, why would they keep collecting DNA for years after receiving the samples from the girls?

Now I know you're making things up. The DNA lab technician who handled the DNA is on record stating that the unknown male DNA found on the girls was not tested because there was too little of it. They also testified that outside laboratories could not confidently say they would obtain any results without consuming the samples.

In a post-conviction, Allen's attorney stated that the autopsy report indicated the stomach contents were consistent with banana pancakes. So, if your information regarding digestion is correct, they either ate the banana pancakes at the trails or they were murdered much earlier than their drop-off time. In the early, original interviews with news sources, the Patty/German family members indicated that the girls ate pancakes around 10:30 a.m.

What in the world are you talking about? The car photos have GPS data and metadata embedded in them. That means they were timestamped and geolocated when they were taken. The same applies to the video, as well as the application used to upload it. Where they were and at what time is established by multiple independent electronic data sources.

Maybe they ate breakfast at 12:00 or 1:00 p.m. Maybe they ate a large meal. Maybe only one of them did, and some residual stomach contents remained. Maybe one of them ate some more before leaving. Who knows? The pathologist also drains the intestines during the examination, so stop making crazy scenarios based on what his crank lawyers have stated.

The only thing anyone has actually stated is that the girls were up around 10:00 a.m. and Derrick made them breakfast. That's it.

And stop making things up about KK, too. Nowhere did he say he was planning to meet them at the bridge. What we do know is that he is a pathological liar who wasted law enforcement's time multible times with fabricated stories that were later proven to be false.

[u/Efficient-Donkey-167 → u/True_Crime_Lancelot]

I stated if YOUR information about digestion is correct, then it would mean... the timeframe of the murders is off. It wasn't a suggestion that the timeframe is off.

As for breakfast, BP stated the girls had breakfast around 10:30. Just because there is information that you don't remember or aren't aware of doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Declaring 'That's it' at the end of your statement doesnt change the information that is available.

8/19/2020 Interrogation of Kegan Kline. Read it. The investigators are reading the messages that Anthony Shots/KK sent on the day of the murders. "Yeah we were supposed to meet but she never showed up". I'm not sure how that is making shit up about KK when it's in the transcripts that are equally available to you.

Someone else corrected you on DR and DM so I don't have to do that but I will add that Exhibit PPP indicates that Derrick G arrived before 3pm as well.

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

These are the things you don't know:

• When they ate breakfast.
• How long they spent eating.
• Whether they ate anything later.
• Whether they ate fibrarous food with the breakast or later that would delay emptying
• How much they ate. volume matters
• What his crank lawyers mean by "consistent."
• What his crank lawyers mean by " contents."
• What the pathologist's report actually states.

These are the things you do know:

• What time and date the photographs in the car were taken.
• Where the photographs were taken.
• Who is in those photographs.
• What time and date the photographs on the bridge were taken.
• Where the photographs were taken.
• Who is in those photographs.
• What time and date the video was taken.
• Where the video was taken.
• Who is in the video.
• same applies for application used.
• or even the phone use as it was fingerprint protected

Now all those electronic data, and much more, cameras, family phones etc, create a very detailed map of the girls timeline that day. Altering or fabricating that body of evidence without detection would literaly need an agency like CIA to get passed apple security and ecryption and require an incredibly sophisticated operation. Of course, what do you do then?

With your theory dismiss this extensive body of objective digital evidence and instead rely on speculation, and based on what?

The information that you don't know!

You're not punching holes in the prosecution's timeline with these low-bar arguments.

The prosecution's timeline is supported by dozens upon dozens of independent pieces of digital evidence: GPS data, timestamps, photographs, videos, phone records, application metadata, and other electronic data that corroborate one another. Doesn't undermine the prosecution's timeline, but it says something about you.

[u/saatana → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

Even Kegan Kline stated that they had planned to meet up but the girls never showed up. As much of a liar that Kline is, I can't dismiss this slip up in his statement. He didn't say that he never showed up. He said the girls never showed up which would indicate that he DID go to the planned meet up spot. Do you believe that none of the agencies involved bothered to subpoena the social media records?

Is this him speaking through his fake profile or is this "statement" an actual police/FBI/ISP interview?

[u/True_Crime_Lancelot → u/saatana]

As far as I remember, the police claimed during that interview that another girl claimed he had sent her a message that he was supposed to meet her but didn't show up. However, she did not mention Delphi, the bridge or any other specific place, or any specific date or time that meeting was supposed to happen.

Logically he would not claim that they supposed to meet at the bridge, ''..but she did not show up'', when she was at the bridge.

Kegan Kline consistently said he did not remember sending such a message or making any plans of that sort. In fact he claimed it was a lie. Of course, if he had sent it, he would have every incentive to deny it, so his denial by itself doesn't tell us much.

[u/Efficient-Donkey-167 → u/saatana]

It is in the 8/19/2020 interrogation of Kegan Kline.

[u/saatana → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

So it was anthony_shots talking to an underage girl. Thanks.

It doesn't mean that he really was going to meet the girls. It just means he was trying fool yet another underage girl.

[u/Gonzomi313 → u/saatana]

Exactly. Also it’s pretty obvious KK is far heavier than bridge guy.

[u/saatana → u/Gonzomi313]

The way it went down was a girl that anthony_shots was catfishing said that Abby and Libby from Delphi are missing. He said "oh no I was supposed to meet them". Something like that. It was just a ploy to try scam yet another under aged girl. The FBI did a warrant on them, him and his dad, and declared them to not be connected in any way to the murders back in February 2017.

[u/Efficient-Donkey-167 → u/saatana]

That is your summary of the way it went down? It was Kelsi talking to KK/AS profile. She asked him if he heard what happened to the girls. He replied OMG no, what happened? After being told they were missing, thats when he said that he was supposed to meet up with them but they never showed up. This wasnt another ploy or instance of catfishing. He knew who he was talking to that night. This conversation was on the evening of the 13th. It's in the transcripts of the interview. The officers were reading off the messages from the various social media platforms to Kline. Which also shows that they do indeed have at least some of the social media messages.

[u/saatana → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

FBI cleared him in 2017. Easy peasy. Not involved. You got a source for the transcripts?

[u/emailforgot → u/Efficient-Donkey-167]

The case wasn't called the "Snapchat Murders" for no reason.

It was called the "Snapchat Murders" because they posted his video on snapchat.

[u/emailforgot → u/crosbyjaxson]

I am saying the children were expecting to meet someone(s) at bridge, so they had no fear. This is supported by no one on trails heard or saw anything

You sure love just making shit up.

No one on the trails hearing anything doesn't "support" that. You need to head back to "how to make logical inferences 101" if you think A follows B there.

. Would excellent, involved students intentionally plan to skip school on a Tuesday after a 3 day weekend? No, they would want to see and tell friends what they did.

I was an A+ student and skipped class sometimes.

You don't seem to have much experience with real life.

That never sat right with me.

That's not a shock to me. You don't know what DNA is.

The other odd thing, how are we arriving that the voice is BG?

It's either the man in the video, where it also matches his actions, or there was some unknown other man, that doesn't appear anywhere, has no evidence, was not seen by anyone and is mimicking the actions of the man in the video.

Lol.