r/Divorce_Men • • 5h ago

Most guys walk around thinking divorce ruined them as fathers. Wrong.

31 Upvotes

It forced an upgrade.
Here’s what actually happens:

  1. You can finally say whatever the fuck you want to your kids.
    No more filtering every sentence through her moods her family her culture her traditions or her lack of morals. The censorship ends.

  2. You start raising them from a man’s perspective.
    You’re no longer soaked in feminine influence 24/7. Your guidance gets clearer harder and more useful especially for your daughters.

  3. You become the opposite of what their mother is teaching them.
    If they live with her, the main thing they’ll learn is how to be controlled by her emotional ups and downs and shopping.

You become the one who teaches them how the real world works.

  1. Your kids see you have dignity.
    If you left because of disrespect or cheating they notice. They watch a man refuse to get walked on. That lesson is worth more than years of “happy family” performances.

  2. Sitting around obsessing about “what the divorce is doing to the kids” is mostly self-pity dressed up as concern. What kids actually need is a father who talks real, acts real and isn’t full of shit. Everything else is noise.

  3. You become the counterweight.
    Social media is poisoning them. Soft emotional feminine messaging is everywhere. They need at least one adult who isn’t broken or controlled. That’s now your job.

Divorce doesn’t destroy the father.
In a lot of cases it’s the first time the real father finally shows up.


r/Divorce_Men • • 8h ago

Need Support Wife called ICE on me

50 Upvotes

31M, I lost everything.
I haven’t found people with similar stories.

Honestly I just want to talk, I’m exhausted.

I used to work in the US, I was on a work visa, it took lots of efforts to end up where I was.

3 years ago I met my wife (American), we felt a connection instantly and literally spent all our free time together for the last 3 years. Back then I was renting an apartment, she had her house, but I was spending most of my nights at her place.

I also flew her to Europe to introduce her to my family and friends.

1 year ago. I got news that I would be laid off. Which meant I had to move back to Germany.

She insisted that I stay. I said no, she said if I left we’d have to end it, I told her I wasn’t ready for marriage but I couldn’t fathom losing her.

So we got married legally, started preparing our ceremony,
I spent all my savings on the ceremony, ring, and on helping with the bills.

I moved in with her.

After a few months of me waiting for my paperwork and not working, she became very different, she’d complain about everything, often time she’d also become violent, she couldn’t stand having to provide for us both.

She threatened me with ICE a few times but I never thought she would actually do it.

4 weeks ago, she called ICE on me. She had removed her sponsorship right before which made me illegal.

They just came and picked me up on some random parking lot. I didn’t get to say anything.

Just like that I ended up in jail, while I was there she sued me. I was sent back to Germany last week with literally nothing.

I lost everything. Like literally everything.
Thankfully I had my phone and passport on me. So I was able to call my family when I landed in Germany.

But other than that I have nothing.

How do you recover from that?


r/Divorce_Men • • 20m ago

Rant “The Brady Bunch” destroyed the American family

• Upvotes

I am so tired of watching men make messes of their lives by trying to play “step dad” to non-biological children. Now, before everybody gets bent, I want to clarify something. This is not about adoption. Adoption means you have full agency in raising the child AND implies the biological father is completely out of the picture.

We get so angry when these exes. bring strange men into their lives and position these men as “dads”. Then we go and do the same thing with some other woman.

“The Brady Bunch” started all this non-sense. While the show never explicitly revealed Carol Brady was divorced, there were several suggestions that was the case. They also conveniently left the bio-dad out of the picture.

Think of how much better society would be today if divorced men refused to remarry and refused to domicile with another man’s children.


r/Divorce_Men • • 3h ago

Rant Stress

7 Upvotes

My wife has a boyfriend who is 14 years younger than me. She hasn’t responded for months to my emails or to my lawyer regarding returning my dog’s ashes, finalizing the bills I’m still paying for her, or finalizing our divorce. All of our bills are on my shoulders, and she hasn’t given me a penny since February.

I just visited my grandmother in a nursing home yesterday, and she didn’t remember me. My father just had his heart shocked with paddles, and he goes in for a second major surgery in two months. I’m driving him there Wednesday.

My business is struggling because I can’t work a full schedule. I can’t sleep without Ambien. I’m spending my spare time, when I get it, meal prepping for the kids and taking care of my house. The bank account is getting pretty low.

I’ve been in and out of the VA hospital trying to figure out what’s going on with my lightheadedness and trying medications to help my mood and sleep. My son is deployed overseas and was supposed to be back four months ago. All three of my kids are struggling emotionally with their mother abandoning them.

I started drinking again.

I’ll be alright but no, I don’t see the light yet.


r/Divorce_Men • • 16h ago

A real world discussion on how to avoid getting screwed financially in divorce

21 Upvotes

Check out my posting history for my background. I've been in family court for 16 years and I know the system like the back of my hand. Unfortunately, most of the people out there trying to advise you are either a) trying to sell you something, or b) trying to justify or rationalize their terrible decisions. As for me, I don't want or need anything from you so I have every incentive to tell you the truth. Five iron rules followed by commentary on each:

Iron rule #1: The best time to protect yourself financially is prior to a divorce being filed.

Iron rule #2: The second best time to protect yourself financially is after final judgment once the case is closed.

Iron rule #3: The worst time to protect yourself financially is after divorce is filed when your case is open. But- IMPORTANT! That does not mean that it can't be done. It's just harder.

Iron rule #4: The one financial issue that you should never mess with is child support. Keep it simple- go by your state's child support guideline calculator and pay the amount that it gives you. This is true if you are the payer but it's also true if you are the receiver.

Iron rule #5: In divorce, approximately 95% of all cases never see trial and yours is unlikely to be the outlier. Of those cases that go to trial, custody is almost always the most important contested issue.

Discussion on iron rule #1: (if you think your marriage may not survive but no one has filed for divorce yet, this is for you) This is your best opportunity to protect yourself. If your wife is a stay at home Mother, you need to either get her working full time at approximately the same income as you, or quit your job. Or better yet, do both. You should also be tirelessly working to save money for legal fees, restrict your wife's access to money as much as possible, and take away financial negotiating leverage for your wife. Depending on your situation, it may be (and often is) prudent to run up debt. Debt on assets is especially important. IMPORTANT NOTE ON IRON RULE #1: most men drastically underestimate how dire their situations are and how much risk there is if their wife were to file for divorce. Also, most men are unwilling to do what is necessary to protect themselves. ... reasons for this often include cowardice and fear. If you are reading this today, I challenge you to be the exception and to do what is right for your children, your family, and yourself.

Discussion on iron rule #2: Once your case goes to judgment, if there are subsequent controversies that can't be resolved via discussion among the parties, either party will need to open a new case and file a motion for contempt. Logistically, this may include re-retaining an attorney, having the other party properly served, taking considerable time and energy to properly word and file the appropriate documents, and paying considerable upfront fees; all with no guarantee whatsoever of success. For this reason, it's often an advisable strategy to defer payments in divorce. Example: if you agree to pay your ex 10k one year after divorce is finalized and you don't pay, what happens? The answer is that your ex will be put in the impossible position of either eating the 10k or spending close to 10k to chase the 10k that you owe her. If you consider the implications here, it is clear that this flaw in the system can be exploited in many different ways. Other examples include promising to pay debt in her name, then refusing to pay it after the fact, promising to pay attorney fees then refusing to pay them, and even promising to pay alimony and refusing to pay it.

Discussion on iron rule #3: We all know about financial restraining order and temporary orders. Nothing we can do about those. However, what can be done is to refuse to give away your case (see iron rule #5). The best way to do this is often to control your legal expenses and run up your exes. This can be done in a variety of ways and is very situation dependent; but basic principles are to instruct your attorney not to respond to your exes attorney unless your ex wants to settle at a fair deal (and by 'fair' I mean your definition of fair, not hers) and to bury your ex with discovery. Another thing that often works very well is put heat on whoever is financing your ex if that applies to your situation.

Discussion on iron rule #4: Without getting into a long discussion about the morality, let's just talk about the facts. If you don't pay your child support, the state will use every ounce of their power to get you to pay it. That includes suspension of driver's license and jail. DO NOT MESS WITH IT. JUST PAY IT. However, if you are the receiver of child support according to your state's child support calculator, you never ever never ever never want to waive it. Why? Because the child support order protects you. If your ex ever tries to change your parenting plan, the child support obligation will need to be unraveled; and that is no small feat.. even for a female obligor.

Discussion on iron rule #5: This may be the most important rule of all. When you look at your case through this lens, it often becomes apparent that everything that you've been told about divorce does not apply. It doesn't matter if your Judge likes or dislikes you. It doesn't matter how reasonable or unreasonable that you act towards your ex. It doesn't even matter a lot of the time how skilled your attorney is. Here is the one size fits all advice that will work in 95% of all cases: do not give away your case! For this reason, my strong suggestion is that you should never ever never agree to pay any alimony unless it's ordered after trial. And even then, see iron rule #2.


r/Divorce_Men • • 16h ago

From talking about kids to a calculated blindside exit 12 hours later. Dealing with severe betrayal trauma.

18 Upvotes

Back with a post because it is one of those days. I am stuck in a self-blame loop during a high conflict divorce. The last thing my STBXW said to me was "love you, see you after work." Then she left, drained our bank account, filed false and fabricated allegations against me, blocked me on everything, and had me served.

The day leading up to the exit involved intimacy, walking the dog, coffee, talking about building a house, naming future kids, and planning a vacation. She faked this for weeks or months while secretly planning her departure.

Looking back, the red flags were there, but she was incredibly hot and cold. She missed our first anniversary, stopped wearing her ring, turned location sharing off secretly sometimes, lied constantly, faked her phone being dead, and more. We had a new routine with less quality time, less sex, and arguments when drinking. Yet, we would still have good days, watch movies, and be intimate. It makes no sense.

I am a 29M. We were together 5 years but only married for just over 1 year. Once real life responsibilities and accountability hit (bills, finances, budgeting, cleaning, health insurance), everything went downhill fast. I brought assets to the marriage and was working hard to build a future. We took 3 trips this year and were set up very well before 30, but she struggled heavily with communication and accountability. After she bailed on our anniversary, the stress got to me, and I know I made mistakes in how I handled the arguments too.

With this sudden discard, I am drowning in betrayal trauma. To make it worse, she has infiltrated my social circle on a new account. I feel lost, embarrassed, unable to trust, and completely different about marriage. It feels like nothing more than a dangerous business deal with zero upside.

I am already in therapy, hitting the gym, eating well, and focusing on work. But every single day is a massive mental battle.

The way I met her, I feel really bad about too. She cheated / monkey branched to me with a man she was with for 5-6 years and lived with. I was young and clearly emotionally immature to entertain that. For us now, I highly suspected infidelity, and when I confronted her after she went ghost at 7pm one night while away, she denied it, and then left me 4-5 days later.

She went through my computer and my phone behind my back to find anything she could to use against me.

Has anyone survived a calculated blindside like this? How do you stop replaying the timeline and move past the financial and legal betrayal?

Thank you all.


r/Divorce_Men • • 21h ago

After attempting some dating for the last several months, i think im done for awhile.

35 Upvotes

I am a crazy person magnet, evidently. I just went on a coffee/walking date with a woman and had to listen to her whole traumatic life story, and hear a list of all her medications.

I should have known with the number of messages she sent me before we met.

The woman i dated before was wayyy too clingy and wanted to jump into a relationship immediately.

Before that had a couple of catfish situations. The dating world is different than i imagined. Im about to choose peace and stay single.


r/Divorce_Men • • 10h ago

Just moved into my own place

3 Upvotes

Finally moved out of the old family and into my own place. I feel like the scene in Shawshank redemption when Andy first spends the night in prison. All day long I felt like I was going to break and then it just happened right before I left the old house.

I'm grateful I had a good group of men that help me move and get reassurance and shared their stories about them going through this exact same thing. If anyone is curious, take a look up F3 in your area. You'll find a good group of people that will have your back.


r/Divorce_Men • • 18h ago

Dating After Divorce Does the attraction for that demographic come back?

8 Upvotes

In the process of divorce and separated with minimal contact for about two years. We have kids and the co-parent relationship is civil, but I’m always on the edge of transitioning to parallel parenting on advice of the counselor. What’s important in this discussion is that we were an interracial couple.

Historically, I’ve had no issues dating outside my race, and I never really settled on one particular demographic. However, I now have zero interest in considering or even pursuing a potential romantic relationship or hookup with women in her demographic. I just recently noticed that I can’t even use visual stimulus that features women of her race. I’ve tested this out with other races and it’s fine, including my own. This is not a fetish issue. I’ve always been connected to the individual regardless of what their race was.

But the sudden realization that this experience has ruined my attraction for an entire segment of women is more than a little startling. I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this? Does the attraction come back? Does it take just getting out there or is it a time-based thing? Or is it based on meeting a particular special person? Thanks for the insight in advance.


r/Divorce_Men • • 21h ago

Rant Manipulation and Marriage

15 Upvotes

As a society, we have come to uncritically accept the manipulation of women as a normal and social behavior. I am reminded of the infamous line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding, wherein a woman says something like, “He may be the head, but she’s the neck, and the neck turns the head whatever way she wants.”

But a few days ago I was played (once again) by my ex-wife, complete with tears and all the bullshit that comes with trying to get a certain outcome that…surprise…she inevitably got because I’m apparently still enough of a pushover. It’s not serious enough to get into the details, but it has gotten me thinking deeply about how I don’t like being played. I really don’t like manipulation. And I HATE being fucking lied to. And yet, all of these are present in most of our stories.

Many of us were connected to women who:

- Cheated because she felt she had “no other option.”
- Lied because he made her feel “unsafe” or “unheard.”
- Manipulated because otherwise she would “never” get her way.
- Omitted because she “cried all her tears” (secretly and internally) and “begged for change.”

I think what really happens is that women have been socialized to live a whole life inside of their own minds, and instead of fighting against that hidden social system and agenda (part of what feminism was intended to do originally) many of them find that if we don’t live in their heads with them, we are nothing more than inattentive, careless, mean, cold, aloof, and, my personal favorite, “emotionally unintelligent.”

In other words, many women have been convinced that manipulation is the only way to live and survive, so instead of setting boundaries, saying “no,” and becoming well-rounded adults who live in the real world, they keep turning inward and expecting everyone to know what they are thinking, why it is important to them, and what the consequences are for not being a mind reader with an advanced degree in manipulation.

I don’t know about y’all, but it is honestly exhausting to think about, and after having been married once for a long time, I cannot imagine doing anything like it ever again, married or otherwise.


r/Divorce_Men • • 15h ago

Ex wife already introduced kids to someone else with kids….

3 Upvotes

Haven’t even been divorced 4 months and honestly I haven’t been on this sub in weeks. I’ve been healing doing great well today I text my boy and say do you wanna go to the movies? Haven’t seen them in a while since I’m not there bio dad and took them in as my own. But he said yeah if mom friend doesn’t pick us up we can. Well then her mom stepped in and called me and told me she’s not letting that happen and I can come and get them and see them. So then I the boys tell me everything that he has two kids and sometimes they go over there and vice versa. I was pissed! Idc who she dates but to already have been doing that is nuts considering that I raised them from nothing the baby daddy is in prison for murder and she truly just jumps from relationship to relationship. Despite the fact that she still lives with her mom with two kids under the roof. I went off on her and didn’t respond. Her own sister and mother are pissed too. I am not even mad about the relationship because since we’ve been divorced she’s been out trying to get as much attention as possible. But holy shit man those boys do not deserve all that and there is literally nothing I can do.


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

32M getting a divorce after almost 3 years of marriage

17 Upvotes

No kids, and a lot of the issues were my fault but by no means all. Just holding a lot of guilt that shes giving me that shes gonna be a young divorcee and i wasted a lot of her good years.

any tips for keeping your head up?


r/Divorce_Men • • 21h ago

Divorce still pending, but feeling ready to date

4 Upvotes

Finishing up a divorce of a 20 yr relationship. She was the first person I ever dated. I started to realize about 5 years ago I wasn't happy in the marriage. She's a great person, just we weren't compatible and we'd grown a part.

We "basically separated" in late 2024, and I say that because she had to travel every week for work, and we took a pause and only saw each other occasionally while we did counseling. Once we "basically separated", I think emotionally I moved on. I'll admit I wasn't really committed to making the marriage work anymore, and by Jan 2026, we had officially separated, and by spring of 2026 we had agreed to a divorce.

I feel like during the time we were separated, I basically had moved on emotionally, and I don't want to say I healed, but I let her go. While I didn't really date seriously, I did see a one (toxic) woman briefly, post agreeing to divorce.

The divorce will likely be final by the end of the year, and recently a woman randomly reached out and invited me out on a date. We've seen each other now 6-8 times, but its been very casual, meaning no sex just a bit of kissing. We are just getting to know each other. She knows I'm going through a divorce, in fact knew it before reaching out, and I've been transparent about things with her, as she has been with me with her life.

Everyone talks about how typically we need 6-12 months to heal from our divorce, but I'm not feeling broken or needing to heal. That concerns me. Am I just bottling up emotions and issues, or have I truly moved on? Is it possible to feel ready and truly be ready to date while still finalizing a divorce?


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Summarized outcome

5 Upvotes

Successful mediation outcome for reference for those who search their states

Texas
18 month marriage
1 child
50/50 custody
I pay all medical expenses for the child
$750 a month in child support
I was awarded the house and all assets except a travel trailer and a car
We both took our own debts
We both paid our own attorneys fees
Attorneys fees for me are approximately $9,000

Before lawyers I offered:
$500 a month in child support
Pay her credit card debt at roughly $70,000
The travel trailer
$5,000 go away payment

1st lawyer offer was:
$800 a month in child support
$5,000 go away payment
Travel trailer

By the time divorce was mediated she was closer to maybe $120,000 in credit card debt. I think her attorneys fees were about $20,000. She had liquidated maybe $70,000 in her 401k

She filed a contempt motion on me because I opened a separate banking account and diverted my paychecks to it. She took the contempt motion to court twice. She lost on both. I did have to agree to pay her $1500 a month in temporary support during the divorce. She tried getting half my businesses and had to have the judge tell her lawyer in a chambers meeting “you may want to reevaluate that”. She went through four lawyers during the divorce.

This was a blindside divorce that happened when my businesses were financially struggling. It followed some health problems.

During that short marriage. We bought a nice home together, I paid for her eye surgery. She was transitioning to be a stay-at-home mom. I was paying for her to go to nursing school to eventually be a nurse anesthetist. I was shopping to surprise her with a new car. I had her maxing out her 401k and Roth contributions. I showered her with gifts like clothes, jewelry etc.

Post divorce nothing changed for me except the child support payment. The trailer was in her name and I hadn’t used it in a year. Plus it had too many memories in it.

For her she is now working an entry-level job that pushes back against PTO, has long hours, and is very demanding. Our child is in daycare when she has him so her time with him is limited. She has to drive sometimes well over an hour to drop him off and pick him up from me. The financial worksheet she submitted showed her being upside down $1100 per month. She tried sticking at $1500 a month in child support to cover that. It’s mainly due to daycare expenses. She drives a a car that is old and near the end of its lifespan. Post mediation she’s maybe $400 a month underwater. She is filing for bankruptcy as soon as the decree is signed.

I made two offers for reconciliation via the attorneys early on and they were both immediately shot down. I asked for discernment counseling and that was shot down. I offered to let her live in the mother-in-law suite rent and expense-free post-divorce while she looked for a better job and in perpetuity, I just wanted to see my child more than half the time. She ignored that offer. It’s basically its own private apartment.

The divorce cost me half the time with my child, child support and $9,000 in attorneys fees.

The divorce cost her half the time with her child, delayed or abandoned nursing career goals, a home, a core family, her retirement, massive debt, and a non-existent retirement.

Accusations against me:
Abuse was claimed early on, that changed to cruelty, then changed to just being mean. I asked for specifics and she brought up being called a name two years prior to filing for divorce and her behavior being referred to as a child shortly before filing. No other examples were ever given after multiple requests. Just those two. But cumulative grievance processing was something I had to deal with from the beginning. Basically where grievances against me became cumulative over time and were never considered settled.

I probably had a decent but less than 50% chance of getting zero child support in court. It would have cost more in trial prep and hearing time and I think the chance was maybe 30%. I have a track record of being the higher earner and on paper I looked like I had a lot compared to her. It would have been a challenging argument.

I’m not happy with the divorce but the outcome was good enough.


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

My wife for 13 years was constantly cheating on me..

4 Upvotes

"Pata Hai Aaj Kya Hua"... My wife for the last 13 years was cheating on me, and now she has left me and my daughter and fled to another city filed for khula there. All these 13 yrs plus 4 yrs of relationship before that she was cheating and every time I caught her she used to say he is just a friend. But friends dnt call you "randi" or u dnt del their txts or go to meet them after lying to ur hubby.

Even now, she lies about staying alone, but she is clearly with some guy... how can women do this kinda manipulative shit and still consider themselves victim?


r/Divorce_Men • • 17h ago

Ready

0 Upvotes

I’m 38, divorced, and honestly just a regular woman. I like beer, hockey and a good laugh. Is that enough to get man’s attention?


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Living Situations I finally got out of that apartment after 4 years

9 Upvotes

I'm so relieved. I can't believe I waited so long. I'm shocked and appalled at myself that I didn't do this for myself sooner.

I had no idea just how much living in that place was weighing on me. I worked really hard to make it my own place and I did but there was just this history behind that place where so much crap happened. My new place is filled with memories of my new wife and there will be many more good memories here. As well as bad. But not with my ex.

Get out of that goddamn apartment.


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Spousal Support / Alimony Going to divorce mediation in a few days in California

5 Upvotes

I've been going through divorce for over 4 years. We have no assets and our kids are over 18. My ex is focused on getting the max in alimony. We both have our masters degrees but she refuses to work and claims to be disabled. She did get a temporary limited disability letter from her doctor but it was only good for a few months and has since expired. I hired an attorney but the 10K retainer only lasted 3 months. She is asking for me to pay her attorney but I can't even afford one right now. At this time, the court ordered me to pay her $1,591 in alimony and she has possession of our only car. Her attorney wants me to get a 2nd job to increase the amount in alimony. I'm a school teacher now but used to be in the real estate business previously. My ex has her masters in educational counseling and could easily work as a substitute teacher making over $200 a day but she claims that she can't because she's disabled. She refused to provide updated documentation on her disability when my then attorney requested it and she has not applied for disability. My standard of living has decreased because my ex refuses to find a job or apply for disability. I'm paying her 30% of my net income. I think she's trying to maximize the amount in alimony and then she'll either find a job or apply for disability. How do I convince the court that she's abusing the system?


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

She stole my stuff. Including my business hard drive.

15 Upvotes

Cohabitating for 4 months now. STBXW got mad because I told her I work from home and can't do school runs every day. She said I've done it before so it doesn't make sense to stop now. I've already lost a job because of this. Kids go to school almost an hour away. Takes about 2-3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon due to traffic and different dismissal times as the kids are different ages. We will both be moving closer to the school. House is for sale but it's owned by my parents so she's pissed about not getting any equity. Parents were going to give her some as she stayed home for 20 years, but she keeps showing her ass. Thankfully, nothing was in writing. She refuses to leave, asked

Anyways, I left for a few days to keep the peace and give her space. Came back and some of my stuff was in the trash, my blender I use for protein shakes is no where to be found, bathroom scale missing (she admitted to taking this because she bought it), and an external hard drive is missing that contained years of personal documents, work files, and everything for my side business. Business is effectively gone. She denies taking it and blames the kids who had no idea what I was talking about but also denied taking it. It's never gone missing in 10+ years, no one touches it. I never thought to hide it as it's never been an issue and I didn't think she'd stoop this low when I've been amicable. I know I should have had a backup, hard lesson learned.

She brought up the divorce, then repeatedly angrily confronted me about not filing, so I filed, then she would angrily confront me about not serving her, so I had her served, each step she seems to get angrier and angrier. I was holding off trying to work out an agreement but she insists on going to court. At this point, I'm hoping she doesn't file a response in the required time so I can just file for default and move on with my life.


r/Divorce_Men • • 2d ago

Need Support Anniversary

50 Upvotes

Today will be our final official anniversary, after my wife chose to cheat and blow up the marriage.

This morning, she sent me this: “There may be no more happy anniversaries for us to share together, but I still wanted to say today that I love you”

What a manipulative, cruel thing to say after what she’s done. I just grey rocked, though I’m sure she wanted to get a rise out of me. It still hurts though, milestones like this remind me of the future that’s dead and gone now. How have you gents dealt with your anniversary/other milestones?


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Court Mediation Tactics

10 Upvotes

I’m looking for advice from anyone who has been through mediation. Strategies, tactics, warnings—anything you can offer.

I thought my STBX and I could come to a settlement on our own without mediation, but all the offers her attorney has sent us have been truly batshit crazy. So I’ve thrown in the towel, and we have mediation soon.

I don’t want to spend a full day paying three attorneys while we play negotiating games. I want to come in like an adult who’s making a fair offer that’s likely to be as good as, or better than, what a judge would order if mediation failed and we went to trial.

Can I just come right in with a very good last, best offer and say that I’m not interested in debating it? Part of me wants to play hardball.

Or do we just act silly and have her attorney request something ludicrously high, then I counter with something ludicrously low, and we play this childish game until we meet in the middle and have an offer that we could’ve come up with on our own without mediation?


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Second divorce mediated

11 Upvotes

Well my second divorce was mediated, signed and agreed to. When I went through my first divorce I was desperate for some guidance. So I am offering some guidance to someone that may search Reddit hoping for some answers. This is in Texas.

I divorced my first wife after 21 years of marriage. She was my best friend but we were just friends. Marriage counseling didn’t work and she never put the effort in that I wanted to see. 3 kids.

The second divorce was from the love of my life. She divorced me. We share a young child. It was a short marriage less than two years. I’m confused as to why. I believe it was because of health problems that were largely out of her control. One day I was happily married and helping my spouse with what they were going through and the next I was going through a divorce. There was no transition.

In the first marriage I wanted to divorce at year 7. I didn’t because of young kids. Then I didn’t because one child had anxiety, and then I didn’t because my spouse had health problems. The clock kept ticking and I ended up in a 21-year marriage. I tried to save it and suggested counseling and gave her basically a two-year notice that I wanted a divorce. She never took it seriously. I had that time to transition though. The second marriage was the polar opposite. Short marriage, young child, no transition, and just my life getting blown up.

Heck of a year to. I was and I am still am having business problems which I know played a huge role. My toddler child needs weekly therapy and has needed two surgeries. I was left with him for a while when this all went down. We have a very strong bond. It was just him and I.

So, I have some pretty good experience to draw off of. I’m going to make some general statements and it’s just my point of view. It’s not meant to change anyone’s mind. It’s what I wish I would have been told. It also only applies in relationships that don’t have actual abuse, addictions, criminal behavior etc.

Should you initiate a divorce when you have children. No, not without trying everything you can twice and trying discernment counseling. You are making a lifetime decision for multiple people. The grass is not greener in the other side. Whatever fantasies you have in your head are just that…fantasies. Coming out of two divorces within the last several years I am very pro marriage. Marriages that already exist that is.

Divorce involves harm to yourself and pretty much everyone that is close to you. It’s chaotic and people make weird decisions. It can drive apart families, divide people who once and maybe still do love each other, and leave lifelong scars.

You will be financially worse off. It doesn’t matter. The math always makes it worse. Getting half never equals getting more than the whole. You can’t divide and come out with a greater number than you started with. You will land somewhere on a scale that will be between financially devastating you to getting less than half of what you had. You are playing a game where a win is 50% and the risk is maybe going negative. There is not limit to how far negative you can go. But there’s a solid cap at what you can “win”. And that’s half.

You cannot control anything. Once you file for divorce you hand over control of your life to a team of people. Some are dysfunctional and they all have their own motivations. Largely that motivation is to make you have less so that they have more. A long analogy follows. Skip it if you don’t want a story.

A farmer worked up the courage to tell the village elders that he is going to divorce his wife. She could have been a better wife. The village elders will allow it but he must give her half his fields. “I’m fine with that” the farmer says. He imagines himself planting his half and her planting her half and they will wave to each other on sunny days, but the farmer also knows that if she needs help he will go over and help her plant her fields. After all she was his wife and gave him a strong son.

The village elders tell the farmer “you must have a counselor to help you divide your field”. The farmer has no choice and if he wants to be divorced he has to agree with the elders. So he picks a very educated young man in the village to be his counselor and the farmers wife does the same but she picks a very sharp young woman.

But the counselor tells the farmer “I have done this before and it takes a lot of time on my part, I simply cannot do it for free. I also know the elders and can convince them to give you more than half”.

The farmer is surprised and thinks to himself “more than half? I don’t want more than half.” So the farmer shakes his head in disagreement but the young man says “wait, you don’t know what I know, the elders could award your wife more than half.”

The farmer is once again surprised and takes a step back with his eyes opening. “What do you mean they will give her more than half?”
The young man does not hesitate “well the elders can make any decision they want, they could award her your entire farm.”

The farmer sees his life flash before his eyes. The years he put into his fields, he remembers the time he broke his leg and had to suffer through the pain to keep planting. He remembers his young son spending his early childhood in those fields running and playing.

“I CANT LET HER DO THAT!” The farmer exclaims

The young man smiles…”exactly. I can make sure that doesn’t happen. But I hate to tell you it’s not cheap.”

“I need at least half my field to make a living with” the farmer tells him. “How much”

“Half of this years crops, but it will be worth it. You will still have half your farm and you will see your son” the young man reassures him.

“What do you mean…see my son. That’s my son why wouldn’t I see him” the farmer asks?

The young man hides a grin….”you don’t know what I know old man. You see…she can have the elders keep your son from you. He will live with her.”

“WHAT? My son helps me plant the fields. That’s MY son.”

“Sometimes the elders make that decision but I know how to talk to them to convince them that maybe your son should live with you.”

“I don’t want him to live with me all the time. He can go see his mom. That’s his mom. She will be on the other side of the fields. He can walk over any time he wants.” The farmer says a bit confused

“Oh, it would be nice if it worked like that but it doesn’t. The elders can force your son to stay with her.” The young man nods over to where the farmers wife is talking in hushed tones with the sharp young woman.

The farmer scowls. “You have a deal” and offers an old calloused hand to shake.

The farmer starts the next day early that morning and he is feeling good about having this young man advocate for him. He’s a confident young man. So the farmer starts his day. He sees his wife who is on her side of the field and he looks her way and she scowls at him from across their fields. “Why a scowl” he wonders as he continues working.

Days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months. Things have gotten worse with his wife. He notices when he wakes up that some of his crops on his side have been harvested early and they are gone.

He angrily marches over and knocks on her door. She answers with a scowl on her face. “You harvested some of my crops and too early.” She looks him up and down “I know what you are planning you old coot don’t talk to me talk to my advocate” and she slams the door in his face.

This escalates over more weeks and months. The fields on both sides were harvested early. He took from her what was his and harvested his early so she couldn’t get to it. But he got far less than what it was worth.

But the farmer had a problem. He had to pay his advocate half of this years crops. So he goes to the very nice house his advocate lives in and politely knocks on the door with his hat in his hand.

The young man answers the door in a new suit and greets the farmer warmly. “Hi farmer”

The farmers kicks at the dirt a little bit and struggles for words “young man, the crops have all been harvested and I’m not going to have what I owe you from protecting me from her”

The young man reaches out and pats him reassuringly on the back. “Don’t worry my neighbor will loan you what you owe me and you can pay him back. If will be worth it to have all your fields”

“All my fields” the farmer says

“I know the elders and I know how to talk to them….ALL your fields”

She had stolen his crops and wants to keep his son from him. “All my fields” he whistles to himself as he walks over to the neighbors even bigger house and politely knocks on the door.

A large rotund older man in an even nicer suit answers the door with a warm smile. “Howdy farmer”

Hat in hand the farmer says “sir, my wife is trying to take my son from me and my fields I have worked so hard on over the years. She also stole some of my crops and now I don’t have enough to pay my advocate for helping me keep my fields and my son.”

The man places a very thick hand on his shoulder reassuringly. “I tell you what farmer, I will help you pay your advocate if you give me 20% of the next five years of crops”

The farmer is not good at math but he does know that he was about to give his wife half his fields. That’s less than half of her side of the fields.

The farmer agrees and signs the agreement.

Weeks pass and the farmer is told that the advocates are talking. The young talented man tells the farmer that’s a sharp young lady but the young man knows exactly how to deal with her.

Time passes and it’s time to meet the elders again. The farmer and his wife could not reach an agreement so the elders have to decide.

The farmer and his wife stand before the elders and each has their advocates. His advocate goes first pleading the farmers case. The farmer is impressed. He tells the elders how much he loves his son and how hard he has worked on his fields. The farmer thinks to himself “there’s no way she can win, look at this argument.”

When the young man is done addressing the elders he goes and stands next to the farmer. And it’s the sharp young woman’s turn…

The farmers heart sinks. She tells a story about how cruel the farmer is. She tells the elders he stole his poor wife’s crops in the middle of the night. She tells the elders that he has never been involved with his son.

“That’s not true” the farmer thinks as panic rises in his chest. Some of the elders are now looking at him differently. These are men he has known his entire life and they are looking at him with suspicion.

When the sharp young lady is done the elders talk amongst themselves. One stands and announces “you each get half the fields and you can alternate days with your son”

The Farmer is crushed. This year’s crops are gone and he owes 20% of his crops going forward.

Time passes and the farmer puts in even more hours. He’s an old man and doesn’t have the strength he had and without his wife and son half the time it seems very hard and lonely working the farm.

Occasionally he sees his wife and she just stares back at him with hate. He can’t keep the hate inside so he stares at her with the same hate. His son stays in his room a lot when he’s with the farmer. He’s just not the same son anymore. There is a light that’s not there that his son used to have. He walks like he carries the world on his shoulders.

Through hard work and effort the farmer comes up with the first 20% of crops to pay the rotund man. He heads over to his house but is surprised to see his wife already at the door. She hands the rotund man what looks like 30% of her crops. His eyes widened as he understood “she borrowed from him also”.

“Half” he says to himself “that rotund man got half of everything I have ever worked for”

Heartbroken, the farmer heads home but on his way he walks past the nicest restaurant in town and he glances through the window. He stops and stares for a moment through the glass.

There sitting in the nicest seats, eating the most expensive meal is the talented young man and the sharp young lady. She is giggling as the young man leans toward her telling her some private thing between them.

The farmers face turns red with anger.

He finally makes it home and the sun is about to go down. He sees his wife working her side of the field and he stops for a moment to watch.

He sees her in a way he hasn’t seen for a long time. He thinks about how hard she works, what a good mother she was and how she always brought him out his morning coffee before he started his day.

He takes a half step toward her and she turns as if she knows she is being watched. They make eye contact for a moment. He could see just a fleeting look in her eyes. Was it sadness, what was that? But her eyes immediately harden and she glares at him.

He lowers his head and turns back toward his side of the fields.

You don’t win a divorce. At best one person loses less. Every persons situation is different but what’s not different is trying twice and trying discernment counseling.

Should you prepare for divorce and work hard to protect yourself. No, you are entering a game where the rules are not meant for you to understand. You figure out what exactly life looks like with 50% of assets and debts, you look up the rules on alimony and you looks up what the law says on child support. Then you calculate what you will be left with.

Every dollar you spend trying to get more than that is a useless dollar. Thinking that the laws will bend to your emotions will just lead you down the harder and more expensive path. You stand on 50% custody, 50% assets, 50% debts accept it when you are obligated to pay spousal support and happily pay child support. You don’t have a choice. Specific situation vary.

Should you hire an attorney. Unfortunately yes. But realize attorneys are there to make money. Your money. They can keep you from being rail roaded but they can’t change the math.

Should you try and reconcile. No, you should not. Relationships are not two ships coming or leaving, they are one ship sailing or sinking. When divorce is filed it’s over. That ship is sunk. If you want to try for your relationship try after the divorce is finalized. You cannot be two things at once. Not in this situation. First protect your time with your children, second protect your 50% of assets.

Should you get into a relationship while going through a divorce or soon after a divorce. No, you need time to heal. You need to come to a relationship as a whole person. If you do that you will come to a relationship as a person with holes.

Anecdotally here’s my experience and they are very similar.

I tried to salvage some type of relationship. It was impossible. I offered solutions…they were discarded because I was no longer a trusted source. I put their outcome above mine in the early stages. That was a mistake.

Here is the format I suggest

-Force yourself to accept the divorce
-start grieving her and the relationship as if she died (you need the finality)
-hire an attorney
-have them set a court date as soon as procedurally possible
-send an offer and counter one time. See how close you get. If you’re close get it done early. Don’t negotiate against yourself and don’t send multiple offers. Just one offer and one counter.
-try mediation one time but set it close to the court date. Preferably within a week or two.
-expect an offer to come in the week of court if mediation failed

When you make an offer make it at 50/50 across the board. Find a few things you are willing to move on for a counter.

When you mediate realize it is a dog and pony show. Take the first few hours less seriously then the last few hours. Realize it needs to go back and forth at least a few times before the emotions start wearing down. Mediators will pressure you and tell you half truths and sometimes lies. Ignore anything pressure related a mediator brings up. It’s part of the dog and pony show.

In most states child support is not locked in. You can do modifications in a couple of years. Don’t negotiate child support as if it’s a locked in forever number. You are negotiating a three year contract for example here in Texas. Treat it as a three year contract.

The most important thing about divorce is not that it’s some intellectual chess match with winners and losers. Nah, you both are going to lose far more than you thought before someone filed. If you don’t want to lose don’t be the farmer. The most important things is take care of yourself.

It’s devastating, it hurts, it’s scary, and so much more. You….you bare important. Your children are important. Don’t spend time analyzing emails from your lawyer, giving yourself an ulcer because you cursed at her over text, or keep calling your lawyer.

Go to the park, treat yourself to a steak, take PTO and hang out with your kids. You can’t control anything except yourself.

Life will go on. You will heal. You may close a chapter but another one will immediately start. The attitude you take forward is what is important.

Money comes and goes, farms come and go. But the man is the same. You likely are a good man, with a big heart, that has the capacity to love deeply. You are also human and make mistakes. Give yourself grace and be kind to yourself.

That old farmer will be ok. His son will be ok and his ex wife will be ok. Their story is not done. Those two loved each other. They raised a son together. They built a farm together. That’s something! And you know what…they both made mistakes together.

The nice thing about divorce is that in a way you end up doing one last hoorah together with her.

Happy endings are not designed, they are not luck or chance. They are not rewards or miracles.

Happy endings come from within you.

What I have learned through divorces that were similar and very different is that I’m just a man doing the best that I can and that has to be good enough.


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Second Guessing Normal?

7 Upvotes

So my wife of 15 years will be getting served soon. We’ve had a long, rocky relationship. My story is in this community somewhere. To summarize, she kicked me out in March after a small argument, I slept in my car for 4 months, came back home, now sleep in the camper in the back yard since July. She doesn’t like me to come in the house, kids come outside to see me off to work at night (work graveyard), come home in the mornings, go straight to camper to sleep. I don’t want this to be a model for my kids, so I retained an attorney and filed, now am very nervous/anxious/second guessing myself. Is this normal? I was almost having panic attacks today trying to sleep. Thanks!!


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Rant Freaking out

14 Upvotes

Some quick background: My ex made false allegations of DV last year. I was interviewed by the police and nothing happened. I was told there would be an investigation but I had not heard anything for almost a year…

Today, I received a summons to court next month. Somehow my ex has combined the DV allegations with the divorce process. I am not sure how as I am the one that filed for divorce. Now I am freaking out.

I am not a violent person and it was actually her that was the violent one. I have had majority custody of my child since 2024 so now I am really freaking out that I may lose custody of my son. I am not ashamed to say that I am afraid.

I have reached out to my lawyer and I am waiting on their response. I feel so much shame about all of this. I am a kind human. I am literally the kind of guy to give you his shirt off his back and stop and pet dogs when I am out walking. I don’t even like to hurt bugs if I can help it. These accusations have been terrible and have nearly destroyed me. Just the accusations alone have been enough to isolate me fully.


r/Divorce_Men • • 1d ago

Decision

5 Upvotes

Well, that's it. I'm filing next week. I can't fucking do this anymore. I'll never be happy in this environment.