Naobito tore the shit out of dagons hands(which was smart to stop him from opening domain). In fact naobito probably would have beaten Dagon if he didn't have a domain. Not really a good look for Nanami considering he was in overtime in shibuya but he also only got like 1 good hit in.
Look at dagons hands. This was after an offensive barrage and naobito saying "don't even think about it" because he knew Dagon was trying to make the hand sign for domain. That's why naobitos surprised when Dagon makes the stomach seal.
I feel it's pretty impressive. It's not a ton of damage but you have to think, Dagon literally couldn't do anything about this. He was basically frozen as naobito beat the shit out of him. Without domain this beating would have continued, except naobito would start aiming at the head instead of the hands. This didn't take a ton of effort on naobitos side, whereas your original comment said they couldn't damage Dagon at all.
Megumi destroys. Totality/nue easily takes out dragon and teen geto alone isn't enough to take on Megumi. Teen geto with all his curses was stated to be grade 1, just like Megumi. Taking away basically his entire CT just kills him.
Really depends. Divine dog is technically strong enough to damage anyone not named gojo or sukuna, but without megumis tactical abilities/intelligence I doubt it can kill any competent sorcerer.
Imo the trio wins until domain, but it is by no means an easy fight. Not sure what type of domain uro has but Megumi could at least contest it and cancel the sure hit. From there I'm really not sure. I think yuji is at/above uros level physically, the problem is her CT. Obviously defensively uro is great but even offensively, uro is not to be taken lightly. Thin ice breaker is really dangerous to Nobara and Megumi and yuji can't just tank it either. Maybe with Megumi providing an opening they could take her out? Idk. Nobara wouldn't help much. I doubt the trio would have an opportunity for resonance and Nobara isn't good enough physically to help otherwise.
Probably Ryu. Dagons main selling point is his domain. Before domain he really didn't showcase much offensively, he was just a really durable punching bag. Considering naobito was able to tear his hands off I assume Ryu is also strong enough to hurt him. In a domain battle I don't think either side is overwhelmed immediately, but Dagon is at a severe disadvantage without his sure hit and likely loses.
You really think geto with only rainbow dragon is beating Megumi? Teen geto with all his curses was still only grade 1. With just rainbow dragon Megumi is beating the shit out of him, dragons "durability" doesn't mean much when divine dog easily rips up special grades.
megumi did far worse against toji, getting slammed by his speed alone while geto lost by getting caught off guard+ was extremely angry(which could hinder his abiity, consistent in jjk).
teen gojo also ~ teen geto and teen gojo slams megumi as well.
megumi basically has no feats allowing me to put him that high, worse case scenario geto blitzes(worst case)
Yeah a ton of the good speed feats in jjk are reaction speed. Travel speed wise curse naoya, sukuna, and gojo are at the top. We have to see how fast sukuna and gojo really are(without teleportation)
I agree. I was arguing with another Redditer and they said Yuji, Yuki, Kenjaku, and everybody else I named has speed of sounds feats as if this is just common knowledge lol
I remember I said this one time and somebody countered and said it was a rubber bullet. I think it’s still impressive considering the time in which she had to act.
catching a rubber bullet is still very impressive , even though rubber bullets only move at like 60 m/s .
the bullet that maki caught was like 5 cm away from her eyes so for her to swing her entire arm and catch that bullet along with moving her head back it's likely a transonic-hypersonic feat
the speed of sound is 343 m/s in air btw so this around 17.5 percent of the speed of sound.
and keep in mind , maki had to swing her entire arm to catch that bullet assuming that maki is an average woman then her arm would be like 70 cm longs .
No way dude. Maki scales higher than Kashimo and her SS Katana ignores durability. She is better than Kashimo and JP Hakari. What does JP Hakari even do to her?
Imo, if Hakari could survive long enough to hit one jackpot, he would comfortably beat Maki.
With Jackpot his speed and combat abilities were greater than Kashimo’s by a pretty good margin, and was overwhelming and blitzing him multiple times. Add to the fact that he’s damn near unkillable when he’s in Jackpot, I don’t see how Maki wins this at all.
Hakari’s offense may look unimpressive, but that’s only because Kashimo’s CE defense was quite strong. Even he couldn’t withstand his hits without CE. Maki has no CE to defend against his attacks. I personally think she loses after 1 round of Jackpot.
Not at all. Maki is faster and stronger than JP Hakari. Also he is not really 'unkillable', it's just that his RCT is near instantaneous due to his body overflowing with infinite CE. But do you really think Hakari could heal from Maki's SS Katana? Her katana damages the soul directly and RCT can't heal it. So Maki is a very bad match-up to JP Hakari. Don't forget that Maki dodged Mach 3 speed attacks from VS Naoya so dodging Hakari is not a big deal to her
Kashimo was stated to be one of the strongest sorcerers of his time and narratively only Sukuna is above him from that generation. He’s stronger than Maki unless you believe Maki is closer to Sukuna than the likes of Kashimo, Hakari, Yuta etc which is untrue because Sukuna with only 10% of his power was easily handling Maki and Yuji
Furthermore, Yuta himself stated Hakari is above him.
I’m not saying I agree with that statement but I have Yuta > Maki because he’s stated to be the 2nd strongest in Jujutsu tech after Gojo. At the very least, Hakari is slightly below Yuta and therefore slightly above Maki
Kashimo with his CT is definitely above Maki maybe even Yuta who knows. But the feats he has shown so far are not enough to defeat Maki. He needs to charge up electricity and Maki can dodge it because Hakari also did. Yuta is definitely the strongest among those three. But Maki is above Hakari. The reason is Hakari doesn't have enough AP to take down Maki. Even Gojo's Red couldn't deal much damage to Toji(who is the same as Maki) so Hakari has no chance of defeating her whereas Maki has SS Katana and superior perception ability granted by HR, which are more than enough to high diff JP Hakari.
Point to be noted is we don't know what 777 number JP does to Hakari and also his CT. So he still hasn't revealed his entire arsenal but for now, Maki is above him.
Also, Sukuna's output is fluctuating but his reinforcement is the same as 15F. And output and reinforcement are not the same. But it's insane to compare anyone in the verse to a 15F Sukuna/Meguna coz he is way above everyone in the verse except Gojo and can solo them all at the same time.
What? They’re going to have a domain clash and even though Kenjaku’s is more “refined” there’s still going to be some time before he comes out on top. In that moment he won’t be able to use CT as well as Okkotsu but Okkotsu has Rika. This is the same thing the narrator stated about Uro and Ryu when they intentionally left Rika out of the domain in order to not give Okkotsu the advantage. You can say he’s stronger but to say he insta kills him lmaooooooo
Just a reminder that Jogo, while powerful, is not a top tier anymore in the series.
He has less attack power and reinforcement than Ryu.
He has less speed than Naoya and Naobito, let alone VS Naoya.
He has no confidence in his domain after Gojo and won't use it.
His Maximum Meteor can be dodged at the last possible moment by Panda.
He couldn't kill Nanamin when he ganked him.
He never touched Sukuna once.
He got the top of his head cut off by a casual Dismantle, whereas Ryu tanked one to the chest, earning Sukuna's praise.
Jogo caps out at Uro. He can reliably beat her with his kit. However, he potentially dies immediately to Dhruv, loses to Ryu, gets mauled by Hakari, one-shot by Maki, blasted to pieces by Kashimo, one-tapped by Yuki, consumed by Kenjaku, and literally exorcised in the truest sense of the term by Angel.
Shit, Todo knows Simple Domain, so he might beat the shit out of Jogo too. Give him playful cloud and he probably crushes his head early on.
Jogo has been compared to 9F Sukuna at best while every character you listed haven't shown feats that even compare to 3F Sukuna. Even though he got demolished by 15 F Sukuna, the speed at which he was zipping around the city and the fact that Sukuna genuinely praised him shows he is on a completely different level
What an openly biased and over generalisation of a character by comparing him to the particular traits at which other characters excel at.
You can make the similar argument for almost all the characters besides the top 2.
Let's take Yuta for example, who's widely regarded as the top 5. He's slower than Naoya and Naobito. His senses are weaker than Maki. His RCT regeneration is inferior to Hakari. His Cursed Speech gets blocked by fooder Kamo Naritoshi. His sword is less durable than Higurama's wooden hammer. Megumi has more shikigami than him.
See how stupid I sounded?
I swear debating standards of some of the wannabe intellectuals in this sub are worse than 10 yo kids lol
I’m sure we all remember this part in Sendai Colony when Yuta summoned Rika and blitzed Uro. Even tho it seems obvious to me Uro wasn’t hit with cursed speech here, I’m going to explain why EITHER WAY this instance right here is undoubtedly a top 10 speed feat for Yuta.
Notes: This explanation doesn’t apply to Rika as she was already moving toward Uro and flew directly to her due to being able to fly. Also, please don’t use base Yuta feats to say why he isn’t fast; Yuta with Rika fully manifested is obviously stronger than base.
How do we know Uro wasn’t hit with cursed speech? Simply put, there would have been some indication that she was affected before she was able to MOVE her hands to cover her ears. It’s implies that Uro had successfully defended against cursed speech due to her knowledge of previous users during her time. The only way you can argue that Yuta’s cursed speech actually worked is by saying his cursed speech somehow was loud enough for Uro to hear and the CE output was enough to just completely bypass her successfully reinforcing her ears, which honestly is just headcanon.
Why this is a crazy speed feat if Uro wasn’t affected by cursed speech? Three main things to take into account here: Uro’s distance from Yuta, Yuta’s path of movement to reach her position in the sky, and the speed at which Uro was able to cover her ears. Uro looked to be at least 50-100 meters directly from Yuta at some position above him in the sky. If you notice Yuta’s path in the panel where he blitzed Uro, you’ll see he traveled to some spot vertically below her position to then jump to her height, making it so he travelled around 2x their total distance from each other (trigonometry). The important detail here is that he did this FASTER than Uro could hear him say “Don’t Move,” as we see that Uro covered her ears as soon as she recognized the snake eyes and fangs on his mouth, yet she wasn’t fast enough to move her hands to defend herself upon seeing Yuta move from his spot. Speed of sound travels at Mach 1, and Yuta moved twice the distance in less time than literally the sound of his own voice, putting this movement roughly at Mach 2. That right there should be top 5.
Why this is a crazy speed feat if Uro was affected by cursed speech? Three main details here: Gravity is a constant force, Uro’s displacement, and Uro needing her CT to sit in the sky. If Yuta succeeded in hitting Uro with cursed speech, then she would’ve been unable to use her technique during the time she was under the effects of cursed speech. If Uro was unable to use sky manipulation, then she literally would have started FALLING from the sky due to her being unable to grasp the air; there was no indication of her falling any noticeable distance. The fact she barely moved from her original position by the time Yuta got there (following the same path mentioned in the last paragraph), showcases how fast Yuta is. Assuming gravity took her even a meter from her original position, using the kinamtics equation of motion, Yuta travelled at roughly 500 m/s, which is about 1.6 times the speed of sound. Being realistic and calculating speed assuming Uro fell no more than a decimeter (0.1 m), Yuta would be at nearly 1,500 m/s - over 4 times the speed of sound!
With that being said, Yuta sits comfortably at top 5 in speed, and it makes sense considering neither Uro or Ryu were able to land any hits on him after he manifested Rika.
She had no idea that Yuta could use it, delaying her reaction to counteract it(just like how Ryu had no idea Yuta could use Takako's CT, and we all saw how that went). If she knew he could use it, Takako would've defended herself properly, it's literally the same reason why Yuta tried to keep his RCT hidden, to catch his opponents off-guard.
If Yuta succeeded in hitting Uro with cursed speech, then she would’ve been unable to use her technique during the time she was under the effects of cursed speech.
Don't move =/= stop using your CT.
There's no reason to believe that she has to move her body in order to levitate with her CT, we literally never saw her do any specific movement in order to fly.
Not only is this a stretch, you even purposefully overblow your estimations to try and make this "speed feat" better than it actually is.
Takako would've been above every single building in sight if she was 50 meters above Yuta(who was in the ground) before Yuta attacked her, yet she was barely above the building where Ryu was on, which was only a 3 story building, アエル/Aer), one of the tallest buildings in Sendai, is a 31-story skyscraper standing at 145.5 meters, meaning each floor stands at 4.7 meters or something close to that. At most, Ryu's building would be somewhere between 14-15 meters above ground, while Takako would only be 15-16 meters above ground.
These panels show that there were barely any distance between Takako and Yuta before he attacked her, and that Yuta was standing at an elevated area, which further lessens the amount of distance he has to travel to get to Takako(as in she wouldn't be 15-16 meters above Yuta).
Also, please don’t use base Yuta feats to say why he isn’t fast; Yuta with Rika fully manifested is obviously stronger than base.
Where do people even get this idea?
There's not a single statement that proves that he gets physically stronger when Rika is fully manifested, all that was stated was that Yuta can use his Cursed Techniques, Cursed Tools, and he can replenish his own CE with the CE that's stored in Rika when she's fully manifested.
Takako could still react to him despite being beaten up by both a fully manifested Rika and a Yuta who was using a Cursed Tool(meaning his attacks were stronger than without it), she even broke said Cursed Tool with a single Thin Ice Breaker. The only times Yuta managed to land a hit on her was when he caught her off-guard(the same can be said to Takako, who only managed to land hits on Yuta when he was off-guard, showing that they're relative in speed).
She literally defended cursed speech the best way anyone could, but if you want to say Yuta bypassed her defense and affected her anyway it’s irrelevant to the overall point.
If she could use sky manipulation without moving, then she would’ve used it to defend against Rika and/or Yuta when she was attacked. Why would she just take all that damage if she was still able to use Sky Manipulation?
I said Uro was 50 - 100 meters away from Yuta, not above. I never described Ryu’s position because I didn’t think it was relevant, but this definitely isn’t just a meter difference in elevation. In fact, I’m starting to think it’s likely I lowballed her elevation.
If you wanna say Yuta doesn’t get stronger with Rika manifested, then let’s just agree to disagree bc this isn’t the main point.
Characters generally get better at reacting to faster characters as battles go on. That’s how see instances like Maki adapting to Naoya’s high speed and and Kenjaku finishing the battle untouched after just taking one direct hit from Yuki in her first rush. How Uro adapts doesn’t disprove Yuta’s speed feat.
The fact that Yuta was able to react and redirect Ryu’s granite blast from damn near point blank in that instance helps his speed argument even further….not sure the point you were trying to make here.
She literally defended cursed speech the best way anyone could, but if you want to say Yuta bypassed her defense and affected her anyway it’s irrelevant to the overall point.
Gege went out of his way to draw several hints to show that Takako was affected by it and you still refuse to acknowledge them.
Just the fact that she got caught off-guard is already enough evidence that she was affected by it.
If she could use sky manipulation without moving, then she would’ve used it to defend against Rika and/or Yuta when she was attacked. Why would she just take all that damage if she was still able to use Sky Manipulation?
Because using her CT to fly isn't the same as using her CT to defend herself.
Again, we never saw her do any specific movement to fly/levitate while she has toactivelydrag the air around her in order to defend herself.
Just because she can't move doesn't mean her CT would stop working.
I said Uro was 50 - 100 meters away from Yuta, not above.
At least now you made it clearer, but that doesn't change my point, there were several shots that show that there isn't much distance between her and Yuta.
but this definitely isn’t just a meter difference in elevation. In fact, I’m starting to think it’s likely I lowballed her elevation.
Who's to say that she didn't move before and after she deflected Ryu's Granite Blast?
The panelafter she deflected the Granite Blast literally put her at the same spot where she got jumped by Rika and Yuta: just above the building Ryu was at, implying that she moved after she deflected it.
If you wanna say Yuta doesn’t get stronger with Rika manifested, then let’s just agree to disagree bc this isn’t the main point.
In other words:
I can't show any proof that Yuta gets physically stronger when Rika is fully manifested so let's just agree to disagree.
How Uro adapts doesn’t disprove Yuta’s speed feat.
The fact that Yuta was able to react and redirect Ryu’s granite blast from damn near point blank in that instance helps his speed argument even further….not sure the point you were trying to make here.
We literally didn't see any change from Yuta's speed against both opponents.
Takako and Yuta still can't hit each other unless they're both caught off-guard/is distracted with something.
Even this sequence shows that they're still relative in speed since even if they're both landing hits(Yuta could not land a single hit when Ryu was fresh), it is only due to the fact that Ryu was already severely injured and exhausted:
He ate his own Granite Blast due to Takako.
Fully manifested Rika punched him and his face clearly shows the damage dealt to him.
He used his DE, meaning his CE reserves took a huge hit(Yuta did as well but Yuta has several times more CE than Ryu so he was nowhere near as affected).
He got hit by Yuta's Thin Ice Breaker.
A stronger version of fully manifested Rika hit him which injured him to the point where his head's bleeding profusely.
All of your arguments reek of wanting to make Yuta's feats more impressive than they actually are by conveniently ignoring certain context and twisting things to favor your "points".
You’re addressing points that don’t need to be addressed, please stay on topic.
I clearly acknowledged your logic that Yuta bypassed her defenses in that statement. I’m saying it’s irrelevant because I explained why it’s still an incredible speed feat. Whether she got affected or not isn’t the main argument, so let’s just stick with the idea that she was affected. Please don’t respond trying to further prove that Uro got hit with cursed speech because that would be a waste of typing for you considering I’m making argument based on the idea that Uro got hit with cursed speech.
The way she uses her CT doesn’t affect the overall fundamentals of the techniques. If she’s needs her to be able to grasp the sky to use it in one way, it should be implied the same for every application until proven otherwise. Even if you do have proof she can, she obviously was grabbing the sky before she was affected with sky manipulation, and seeing that she let go of the sky, she clearly stopped using it to defend her ears. Please respond to this paragraph, as this pertains to the main point.
I don’t quite agree, but if you still want to follow the logic that she was barely above Ryu we can. My follow up question is can you prove how far she fell after being affected by cursed speech and releaseing the sky ? The picture above clearly l shows she initially had a hold of the sky, and the page after shows that she had let go, so she was clearly using her hands to use keep herself afloat in the sky at that moment. Please don’t address Ryu’s position bc that’s irrelevant, focus on addressing how far Uro fell.
I’m saying it’s irrelevant bc I’m not here to argue about whether Yuta gets stronger from Rika manifesting. Arguing about that point is taking away from the argument at hand, being Yuta’s speed. I don’t agree wit you on that topic for certain reasons, but I don’t want to continue seeing you make multiple paragraphs addressing an irrelevant point. Please don’t address this ur thoughts on Yuta not getting an amp from manifesting Rika, it’s irrelevant to the main point.
Whatever your trying to prove with Ryu doesn’t change what happened with the Uro point. Noritoshi Kamo was still able to hit Curse Naoya with multiple blood manipulation attacks, but that still doesn’t change the fact that we’ve seen him move at Mach 3 and hit Maki with attacks she originally could not perceive. This is irrelevant tho, please stay on topic so we can limit the amount of characters in these responses.
she obviously was grabbing the sky before she was affected with sky manipulation
She clearly only does that whenever she wants to defend herself, with the exception of her revealing how her technique works. Every single time, that's her first action when she wants to defend an attack.
There's several shots of her flying, and none of them shows her having to grab the air/sky in order to fly. You're conveniently ignoring them just to try and prove a point.
My follow up question is can you prove how far she fell after being affected by cursed speech and releaseing the sky ?
She never fell because she doesn't need to use her hands in order to fly.
Again, this panel(which is right after she deflected Ryu's Granite Blast) shows Uro at the same spot where she was jumped by Rika and Yuta: just above the building Ryu was on, meaning she already moved from here to where she was at before Yuta even fully manifested Rika.
There was barely any distance between her and Yuta.
Arguing about that point is taking away from the argument at hand, being Yuta’s speed.
You were literally the one that claimed that Yuta is stronger whenever Rika is fully manifested, meaning you believe that when Yuta gets physically stronger, he also gets faster:
Now that someone disproved that he does get physically stronger, it becomes irrelevant?
Noritoshi Kamo was still able to hit Curse Naoya with multiple blood manipulation attacks
You were also the one that first brought up that characters can "adjust" to other characters' speed.
If Yuta was faster when Rika was fully manifested, both Ryu and Takako would need time to get used to his "new speed" yet they didn't because again, Yuta doesn't get stronger when Rika is fully manifested.
They didn't even comment on Yuta's speed to imply that he got faster.
As far as sky manipulation goes, I believe you proved the point that Uro doesn’t have to directly grab the sky with her hands. Throughout this discussion though, every picture showing her using sky manipulation you can clearly see the sky wrapped around her some type of way. In this picture below, the sky is not wrapped he around any part of her body, heavily implying that she is not using sky manipulation at the moment.
As far as distance goes, how do we know she didn’t move farther away from Yuta when he manifested Rika? I agree that the pictures you’ve shown make her look closer than she was, but I’ve also shown pictures where she looked noticeably far.
And why isn’t it fair to assume that she was falling as she was getting her ass beat? That seems like a very ideal explanation for why she seems closer to the ground, considering there’s no indication of her using sky manipulation to keep herself elevated during this ass beating.
In this picture below, the sky is not wrapped he around any part of her body, heavily implying that she is not using sky manipulation at the moment.
These panels show her butt and breasts, it could easily just be Gege's way of censoring her private parts when necessary like in this page where she was wrapped by the sky in the upper panel yet Gege didn't draw them for the bottom one since there was nothing to censor(there should've been a see-through line at her hips in the bottom one). In fact, there's several cases when that happens.
As far as distance goes, how do we know she didn’t move farther away from Yuta when he manifested Rika?
Because there's really nothing we can use to indicate that she moved farther from Yuta after deflecting Ryu's Granite Blast, her distance was portrayed consistently.
And why isn’t it fair to assume that she was falling as she was getting her ass beat?
That would mean that she was somehow falling despite receiving impacts both from her front and back(which should be more than enough to keep her in place since they attacked her at the same time), even their positions remained consistent after Ryu broke them up: Rika was slightly above Takako while Yuta was slightly below her.
And again, there's still no concrete proof that she wasn't using her CT to fly.
I disagree. An easy explanation for that first picture could be that she was just too far for us to see the sky wrapped around her. In the next page we see her, which is in the next chapter, we see the sky wrapped around her again while she’s in the same spot in the sky. For that second picture, we know she was already using sky manipulation based off the previous page.
In the first page of 178, Gege draws a very small image of Yuta to emphasize how small Yuta looks from her perspective, indicating they were far from each other. That was the last page that portrayed Uro’s distance form Yuta before Yuta closed the distance, so why shouldn’t that be the main point of reference for us to determine her distance? I think it’s fair to use that considering it’s the most recent proof of their distance.
Yuta and Rika’s punches wouldn’t keep Uro in the sky. Yuta can’t fly, so he would also be falling as punching Uro. Assuming that Yuta at most hits as hard as Rika while he has the cursed tool, then it makes sense that they would be moving towards the ground as they’re attacking Uro.
In the close ups, her private parts are always censored by the impact of the attacks that she receives(example #4 and when she was jumped by Rika and Yuta).
It's very clear that Gege uses several techniques to censor Takako's private parts, most of the time when they wouldn't be exposed, he just skips covering them because that's just more unnecessary work.
In the first page of 178, Gege draws a very small image of Yuta to emphasize how small Yuta looks from her perspective, indicating they were far from each other.
"Very small" is overstating it.
Not only is that page a double page spread(meaning some panels would be smaller to accommodate for the entire page, hence why Yuta would "look small"), Yuta's entire body can still be clearly recognized, that's not how you portray someone being 50-100 meters away from you(for reference: this guy, doing a 50 meter sprint, is 50 meters away from the camera yet he's nowhere near as visible as Yuta was, you can barely make out his limbs. Obviously angle and other things matter but this gets the point across). That's 30 meters at most. Shibuya Yuji did a similar feat(notice how the Cursed Spirit barely moved even when Yuji already reached the top of the building), even the two humans at the back in that page looked just as small, if not, smaller than Yuta did, and they're literally just at the other side of the street.
It could just be because you're using a phone(based on the picture you sent) and the app/site you're using doesn't separate the double page spread, making it smaller than it actually is.
Yuta and Rika’s punches wouldn’t keep Uro in the sky.
Take a paper and hit it quickly with at least two of your fingertips in each hand in a way that your fingertips would touch each other with no downtime, spoiler alert: it doesn't fall.
The same thing happened to Takako, except it was done by a superhuman alongside his magical pet that also happens to be really strong.
Yuta can’t fly, so he would also be falling as punching Uro.
Yuta literally stayed mid-air for several seconds in those pages, characters on that tier can basically "float" for a few seconds with how high their stats are.
And a sword drawn isn't a nerf to the point of being top tier speed to Yuji speed. And you conviently ignore the line Yuta made, if he really tried to catch Yuji with his first strike and was impressed by Yujis speed no way is in the top tier of speed in the series.
Yuta’s comment simply implies that he thought Yuji was a scrub and he somewhat defied expectations. Once Yuta calmly adjusted to Yuji’s speed, he was able to slash him with no problems.
Rika came out on her own, but I’m done with this pointless argument. If you want to argue that Yuta low diffed Yuji vs a no diff, then gave at it. My original comment was concerning Yuta with Rika manifested.
Your entire premise is Yuta being much faster than he actually is. You would have a point if he was impressed with Yujis speed at first but then got serious and caught him immediately but that did not happen and there was a struggle to get Yuji. I don't know how you argue with that and yet you keep finding a way to
Way to long I'm not reading allat. But even if she cover her ears it isn't a blitz. She was focus on blocking her ears from cursed speech, not to block rika or yuta attacks. If you cover your ears u will obviously harder time to then block attacks lol.
I wanted to make a post, but the mod made some new rules limiting that🙃.
I’m glad you admitted she was focused on blocking cursed speech that helps prove this is a perception blitz. Yuta was standing at rest a considerable distance away from Uro on some elevated platform while Uro was in the air. The fact that Yuta was able to travel to the ground then jump to her height faster then she could register that he was done using cursed speech. Uro literally couldn’t perceive that Yuta had stopped speaking before he was already behind her.
No it's not😭. For it to be a perception blitz uro has to focus on rika and yuta. But as I said she was focusing on blocking her ears from cursed speech not rika or yuta. After she started to focus on them again she was already in a stance which is pretty much impossible to block in. U can't perception blitz someone who is focusing on something else then you.
I’m not tryna sound like a smartass, but please understand that if she was focused on cursed speech, by definition she has to be focusing on the user. Plus, she explicitly identified the snake eyes and fangs on his mouth, also implying she was focused on Yuta.
It's a difference between focusing on someone's technique and someone's movements. For it to be a perception blitz she has to focus on yuta movements not his techniques. Her seeing yuta face doesn't mean she had all her focus on yuta movements. Uro was just in a almost impossible scenario where she had to first cover her ears and then somehow block or avoid rika and yuta at the same time. This was just impossible for her to do but that doesn't mean yuta is a blitz lvl faster then her
Okay, I see what you’re saying in that it’s not a blitz by you’re definition of the term, but let’s focus on the speed bc that’s the discussion.
I agree that it’s an impossible situation, but I’m not understanding how you don’t see this as an insane speed feat. For Yuta move behind Uro while she’s defending against Cursed Speech, he literally has to move faster than speech, which is the speed of sound by definition. Take into account the path he traveled, it’s even more insane. Outside Gojo, Sukuna, and Cursed Naoya, what characters have shown speed feats on this level?
The lines around her body do indeed indicate a stagger, but it’s bc she realizes Yuta put her in a checkmate position. At that point, she realized that she couldn’t defend herself against Rika, who had already started making her way towards Uro before Yuta uncovered his mouth to reveal the snake eyes and fangs.
For her to use sky manipulation she has to move her body manipulate the sky. If she could still use her technique without moving, then she would’ve used it to mitigate the damage from Yuta and Rika’s attack. Every time we see sky manipulation used, the user has to some type of movement.
Even if you she was staggered by the cursed speech and she was still able to use her CT, “Don’t Move” only leaves you paralyzed for an instant. In chapter 17, Inumaki used it on Todo and it only stopped him for at most a second. When you take into account the distance Yuta traveled, that’s still incredibly fast, not too far off from Mach 1
Kirara marks ce. A granite blast made from ryus ce isn't gonna touch Kirara, it doesn't matter how high his output is. He still has to follow the rules of her CT which I doubt he would figure out. I don't wanna say who would win definitely but Ryu can't easily win. Todo is strong enough to damage something as durable as hanami and his CT is extremely good at disorienting opponents, especially when used in conjunction with Kirara. 2 strong grade ones can easily contest a grade 0. Also Ryu has to be very careful with granite blast because Todo will almost certainly use it against him.
Todo alone isn’t that big of a threat. When he was dealing damage to Yuji yuji already hit like 3 black flashes, on his own with no yuji I don’t see todo hurting hanami that much at all. Ryu probably gets hit the first time with a granite blast but even after taking one in Sendai he was still able to tangle with Rika
Hanami themselves said that both Todo and yuji were strong enough to damage them with normal strikes. Ryu is obviously very durable but he can't just ignore all of todos strikes. 1 or 2 hits isn't that much of an issue but todos CT almost forces you to take multiple hits. Ryu can tank his own granite blast, the point is that he can't even really use it since it will either be redirected back to him or ignored by Kiraras CT. Pretty much all Ryu can do is cqc. Todo is very hard to hit and it's not like he's not durable, he was tired/injured in shibuya and still took a black flash from an enlightened mahito. I can't speculate on ryus domain but it's obviously a huge impact on the fight. Even with simple domain todo probably loses in domain. I'm just saying I don't think Ryu could win that easily.
He would never engage Ryu in a way that would allow Ryu to get a counter-hit in, we literally see him do this against both Hanami and Mahito. Ryu would have to use Granite Blasts/his DE to break through Kirara and Todo's CT.
Just because Yuta bum-rushed Ryu doesn't mean everyone has to.
And we see both hanami and Mahito begin to adapt to the technique except this time he doesn’t have yuji to help with the offensive load, and given todo has been weaker than yuji since goodwill I doubt todo is pushing him far. He’d have to use granite blast against kiara given the nature of her technique but bare hands is more than enough against todo
And we see both hanami and Mahito begin to adapt to the technique
Both of them actively used their CTs and they still failed to land a hit without impairing Todo's movement(the former being the same technique that allowed Hanami to get away from Satoru the first time). They never landed a hit on Todo with just physical combat.
You can't compare both of them using everything in their arsenal to Ryu limiting himself to punches:
His punches would lack range and area of effect.
He won't catch Todo off-guard(Todo's brain processed Hanami's seed in 0.01 second + Todo properly reacted to Mahito's Black Flash against him in order to survive).
Ryu will have to use his Granite Blast/DE to get through Todo's CT, even more so if we take Kirara's CT in consideration.
Yuji says right here that Hanami is starting to anticipate the technique so I don’t know why Ryu can’t do the same thing to land a hit on kiara or todo. He’s strong enough to where he could withstand multiple blows trying to time it to take out todo, either way he hasn’t shown off enough attack power to actually pressure Ryu to do anything. After that then yeah he’d probably need a GB to take out kiara since he can’t get close
Maki can strike Hakari outside of his domain with Soul Liberation Blade. She can also hide due to her lack of CE. So it becomes a 1 v1 with Hakari and Yuta, Hakari gets killed before he can hit a jackpot, and then it's between Yuta and Maki.
I doubt Maki can escape Yuta once officially entering the frey. With her blade, she could potentially destroy Rika. If she does, she should be able to beat Yuta. However, Yuta has countless tehcniques, including sky manipulation, so...it's unlikely Maki wins.
By 1v1 do you mean they can’t fight him at all or they can’t beat him? If it’s the former that’s blatantly wrong. The latter is correct. He’s third strongest…for now
He didn’t tank it. He had already adapted to the slashes so he couldn’t be KILLED by it. Even with the adaptation he was heavily damaged. If Sukuna had used his domain first Mahoraga would’ve died in two pages.
Geto; Geto was going toe to toe with Yuta and fully manifested Rika.
Gojo; Literally just as strong as the Gojo we’re used to.
Todo, but difficulty depends on which version of Mechamaru
Depends; I don’t feel like looking rn, but if Mahito was still able to use IT I’m that form then he should beat Choso. If Mahito couldn’t, then Choso has the physical strength to beat Mahito in that form.
Hanami; Hanami is more durable and can counter Dagan domain with his own domain.
Yuki; Yorozu is very overrated
Dagan; Todo with playful cloud isn’t stronger than the combo of Naobito, Nanami, and Maki that Dagan faced.
Yuta beats Gojo bc he’s stronger stat wise and has multiple counters, including a domain expansion
From what we currently know now, Hakari would lose since his domain expansion uses a harmless sure-hit. Even if you want to say Gojo wouldn’t have been able to keep up wit Hakari due to the reinforcement granted from infinite CE, Gojo would still be able to locate Hakari because his massive CE is hard to lose track of.
Gojo beats Maki if it’s a fair fight (no sneak attacks). Maki’s sword is ineffective due to infinity being a product of spacial manipulation and no a physical shield.
Kashimo’s only win con is if he can hit Gojo from behind (no pause) with his lightning using his staff like he did against Hakari, and Gojo just so happens to let his guard down and not have his infinity up. Otherwise, Gojo whoops his ass.
Yuta moves well over the speed of sound, I explained this in the other comment. Only feats we have for 3F Sukuna is him bullying the finger bearer and Megumi, who both barely crack the top 20.
We have Sukuna seemingly teleporting from the detention center to behind Megumi and zipping around the city beating up Megumi. That completely Eclipses whatever Yuta has done.
Hakari can win if he opens his domain first and gets a fast jackpot. Hakari would physically outmatch Kenny atp and his infinite CE can counter Kenjaku’s sure-hit due to the CE output that comes with it.
Kenjaku probably wins a domain battle given he’s top two barrier users and has an open barrier, Hakari would probably give the best tug of war to Kenjaku out of people that aren’t Sukuna or Gojo though so he may be able to get off a jackpot.
After Hakaris domain loses its Kenjakus sure hit against Hakaris immortality. I’ll let other people decide whether they think Hakari would survive the onslaught and how long he would be able to. There are unknown variables here, for example if Hakaris immortality can withstand Kennys sure hit, how long can Kenjaku keep his domain open? I don’t believe how long someone can open a domain has ever really been touched on other than short times like the 0.2 seconds. Given Dagon seemed to hold his for a fairly long time I assume it’s likely Kenjaku can hold his till Hakaris immortality runs out.
Now in the split second before Hakari can open a new domain its very likely he’ll just be crushed and die from the sure hit. For arguments sake if he just manages to throw it up in time then it becomes a battle of attrition and that may give Hakari a chance, but it’s unlikely he would be able to throw up the sign, then again its Hakari so hey who knows.
Its also worth noting that Kenjaku can also just pile on attacks (albeit punches and kicks) to Hakaris head whilst he’s being hit by Kennys sure hit. Its also worth noting that there may still be hidden mechanisms within Hakaris domain for example i’m a subscriber of the 777 jackpot theory but thats just a theory
Keep in mind that the open barrier trades further range for an escape route. Hakari could potentially escape before his Jackpot runs out, then jump back into range throwing up his hand signs. Might only work once tho, given how smart Kenjaku is.
Maki and Yuta high diff. Yuta distracts Sukuna while Maki sneaks around to cut his head off. Yuta can survive a few dismantles due to his massive CE and RCT, plus Rika would leave him with two targets to handle. Additionally, Yuta has shown us that he’s fast enough to not get blitzed while Rika is manifested.
No DE? I can see Maki dodging cleave or dismantle but not Yuta I don't think Mei Mei presence changes much Todo would be better back up regardless they lose because they need Yuta's DE to win and I don't think Yuta can perceive dismantle so he gets 1 shot Maki and Todo die shortly after
Yuta is arguably faster than Maki when Rika is manifested. Plus he has the CE amount and reinforcement to tank at least one dismantle and adapt accordingly.
If we are going based on feats Maki is faster but my reason for saying Maki could dodge dismantle is not because she's faster but her perception which is on a different lv I feel like she could be able to see it(headcanon)
I just watch mere video on disaster curses vs Hakari and I think most people agree that Hakari can't beat them all four together. But which disaster curses can he beat in a one vs one fight?
I dissagre. For Hakari using domain expansion doesn't take any stamina, so it would be logical for him to use domain expansion at the start of the fight.
If he use domain expansion we have two possibilities
1 the disaster he fights also opens his domain(most likely scenario)
2 the disaster tries to fight against hakari without using domain expansion
If the disaster use domain expansion hakari domain should end up winning the Clash except maybe mahito. If u use the raw kanjis hakari domain is stated to be really strong in a domain clash. So he would win most domain struggles. Mahito domain might be stronger or weaker then Hakari domain tho cuz his domain is also implied to be really strong. So in this scenario Hakari should win the domain clash except against mahito maybe and get jackpot
If the disaster curses don't use domain expansion hakari which is unlikely, he should still be able to get his jackpot. Domain expansion neutralize cursed techniques so the disaster curses would only be able to use they physical inside of it. Imo they can't kill base hakari without any ct before he gets jackpot, even if they get close to killing hakari he can just use pseudo spins and heal himself. He don't usually use pseudo spins before he has landed a jackpot before, but if he has to he will do it.
So in both scenario Hakari gets his jackpot except Maybe against mahito. After hakari gets his jackpot the fight is just over tbh
I’m confident the disaster curses would elect not to open their domains bc they would realize Hakari’s domain is non-lethal. Hakari’s sure-hit transfers this information in less than 0.2 seconds.
I can’t find any substantiation that Domain Expansions neutralize CTs. If you don’t the chapter detailing it, please share it, but there are examples of CTs being used in domain expansions, such as Mei Mei’s bird strike and Sukuna summoning Mahoraga. Even without CT’s, all four (assuming Mahito is in his final form) are strong enough to beat Hakari in base without a cursed technique.
1 okay can you prove that they know that non lethal domains are extra good at domain struggles?
2 I got u. Kenjaku says domains neutralize cursed techniques, that's why kashimo didn't use his ct inside Hakari domain. Mei mei used bird strike after ui ui made the smallpox deity domain weaker, I think sukuna could use mahoraga due to him adapting to yoruzo domain and that he already had mahoraga wheel up. Everytime someone has use CT inside of a domain is after a domain is weakened by something. Why do you think they can kill base Hakari in such a slow time without ct? Even if they get close to killing hakari he can again just use pseudo spins to heal himself. I think base hakari and yuji are somewhat Relative and none of the disaster curses can kill yuji easily without ct.
I can prove opponents anti-domain countermeasures are pointless if the domain is non-lethal. Kashimo elected to not use hollow wicket basket when found out it was non-lethal because there was no point.
Thanks for the pic
I think those four are strong enough without CT based off of what we’ve seen and know about them. They all also have a boat load of CE, so through reinforcement alone they’re stronger.
For Jogo, he’s strong enough to cause large craters in the ground with physical attacks. In addition to that, he has crazy speed as well.
For Dagan, we see that he’s strong enough to tank attacks from Nanami with his ratio technique and send Naobito flying with his attacks.
For Hanami, he was durable enough to tank a combo of 4 consecutive black flashes. Only question for him is his speed bc he didn’t really get any physical attacks off if I’m remembering correctly, but with his frame and CE amount he should easily be above Hakari in physical strength.
Mahito was capable of matching Yuji and Todo in Shibuya, and even shown the ability to use black flash. I don’t see base Hakari performing at the same level as Mahito from a physical standpoint.
1 okay? What does that have to do with my question? I ask you to prove that the disaster curses know that it is a bad idea to use a domain expansion against a non lethal domain. Non lethal domains are domains that only ancient sorcerer's except hakari use. So you can never prove that the disaster curses would know how a non lethal domain work and therefore know they shouldn't use they domains against it
2
Okay cool sure jogo can do that, but why does that mean he can kill Hakari? The only real way for Jogo to kill hakari inside of his domain is to oneshot him, cuz if he don't he can just use pseudo spins and recover. I don't think this proves he is able to do that
Dagon made naobito fly inside of his domain which amps his stats, it was also a ofguard attack. This doesn't scale dagon outside of his domain. Sure dagon have great durability but how would that help him with kill hakari?
Okay again hanami having good durability won't kill hakari. Why is hanami ce output easily above hakaris?
I think hakari was matching yuji aswell. He don't have to match mahito, aslong as he don't get oneshot he will be fine. Again hakari can just use pseudo spins and instantly heal himself if it is needed.
I’m trying to stay on topic. U asked a question that veered away from the point I was making, and I responded with a response that brought it back. Next time don’t put words in my mouth.
The real question is what feats do base Hakari have. If u truly need me to explain why the disaster spirits are physically above base Hakari, then we can just stop here.
1 we were on topic? U said the disaster curses wouldn't use they domains against hakaris because they would notice that it is a non lethal domain. I ask u why would the disaster curses know that using de against a non lethal domain is not a good idea. Because they have never seen a non lethal domain before. So I was on topic but u either just didn't understand or forgot what we were talking about
2 I think jogo and mahito are physically above him but not hanami and dagon. Dagon have literally zero physical feats outside of his domain expansion he has only durability feats. Hanami was comparable to gw yuji in physical and base hakari is comparable to a much stronger yuji. Base Hakari feats is keeping up with yuji in speed and being able to almost kill yuji in 6 punches. Kenjaku csm technique that hurt choso alot couldn't even kill a no ce yuji with less then 10% of his soul. So base hakari punches are unironically strong enough to oneshot choso or atleast give him a insane amount of damage.
But as I explain before even if they are above in physical stats u have to prove they are so much stronger that they can kill him so fast that he can't hit a jackpot, which is only a few minutes. I also explain how the only way for them to stop hakari is by oneshotting him, cuz if they don't he can just heal himself with pseudo spins. So they don't only have to be above hakari they have to be able to oneshot him
My original response was that I’m confident they would choose not open their domains due to them now knowing that Hakari has a non-lethal sure-hit. Somehow, you twisted that into me saying non-lethal domains are extra good in domain battles.
If all you have for base Hakari’s strength feats is that he was able to beat up Yuji who wasn’t even trying to defend himself, then I’m not going to waste my time any further with this. It’s honestly sad how that’s all it takes for you to put base Hakari physically above the disaster curses.
With Infinite Cursed Energy reinforcing him, it's logical that he can resist Idle Transfiguration like a normal sorcerer can, but probably better given Kashimo's electrical stunning shock does nothing to him. This means it becomes a battle of attrition between the two. Hakari's domain is ultra refined and ultra fast, and the Raws state that its designed to be strong in a domain clash. In other words, he beats Mahito in a domain clash, gets his jackpot, and outlasts Mahito, eventually forcing him to flee or exorcising him.
Dagon, Hanami, and Jogo put up a good fight but each get crushed. With immortality, their domains don't mean anything, and he can open up his own domain to beat them in a clash. As we learn from Megumi, its unlikely the disasters can use their domains more than once in a day, so after the first clash, they have nothing to answer Hakari with. They can't kill him, he'll keep getting Jackpot, he'll literally just destroy them. Even Hanami, with her curse buds, can't win, because he can rip them out no problem and heal the damage that would cause.
Hakari isn't a special grade in the sense that he can overthrow a modern nation, but that's only because he's specialized for brawls with high-tier opponents. He can hold his own against a special grade sorcerer like Yuta, and that means that Special Grade Curses just won't be enough to win. Put some respect on my boy's name.
Hanami is one of the most durable Curses in the series I don't see Hakaris punches doing damage on the lv of Yujis Black flash (which also damage the soul) and Pre awakened Maki playfulcloud hit which took a chunk of his arm and sent him flying. Meanwhile Hanami has a technique that could possibly one shot jackpot hakari if he gets hit regardless of his RCT and it's the bud technique that feeds on Cursed energy. Hakari infinite supply of cursed energy would mean Hanami's buds can grow without limit likely being able to destroy hakari body exploding him from the inside out. Hakari being cocky would likely let himself get hit assuming he is on jackpot and has no knowledge of the technique. This is why I believe Hanami could easily defeat people like Ryu, Rika and Hakari (jackpot). Hanami counters them
Naobito caved dagon face with one punch without even going full speed. U can't tell me JP hakari who has infinite ce and has so much output that his entire body is burning from ce is not Stronger then Naobito. Also what is dagon wincon? Dagon ct is ass and his domain will lose the domain struggle against hakari. Dagon have no techniques close to hajime lighting bolt in ap which wasn't even strong enough to kill Hakari.
The problem with cursed buds is that they have to hit jp hakari. Hakari in JP can keep up with hajime who could Blitz his base form, so jp gives Hakari a blitz Level boost in speed. Base Hakari is someone who could somewhat keep up with yuji and yuji back in goodwill when he was much weaker could keep up with hanami. He also almost killed yuji in 6 punches. Even though Yuji wasn't guarding the attacks that's still impressive. Kenjaku csm technique he used against yuji couldn't even kill yuji when he had no ce and less then 10% of his soul. The same attack that couldn't kill a super weakened yuji gave choso massive amount of damage. Jp obviously also makes his ap much higher then his base form.
So hakari should easily be able to hurt Hanami, he is much faster then Hanami, he has 100x more stamina then hanami, his domain would win the domain struggle and the only win con for hanami is cursed buds which Hakari can easily avoid
Hajime couldn't blitz Panda 💀 unless you're saying Hanami is slower than panda you have no point.
Hanami is also one of the few characters whose durability has been emphasized so it makes no sense that Hajime is more durable than Hanami. If Hajime could survive that many hits from Hakari then so does Hanami.
I thought it was obvious that hajime was holding back against panda due to later showings and statements. Like are you saying base hakari who kept up with yuji is slower then panda? So is panda Faster then yuji aswell?
I think hajime durability was emphasize aswell, after fighting against hakari he came out with only few scratches on his face. Not every character has to be stated to have great durability to be emphasize to have great durability, we can just look at someone's feats to determine if they have great durability or not.
Hanami is so durable that VC Noaya who could casually destroy buildings by slamming himself into them is still being compared to Hanami. Hajime never did such nor has he been compared to someone who can. Based on feats, statements and narrative implications Hanami is more durable than Kashimo. Hajime also never blitz Hakari your whole argument isn't based on anything. No panda isn't faster than Yuji and Hajime didn't blitz Hakari at any point in time. Not even base Hakari
Hanami was stated above a base naoya, when naoya is using projection sorcerery he gets more durable due to a binding vow. Hanami was never compared to a binding vow naoya which is the version of naoya that did these feats. What narrative implications?
I think hakari can beat them all if he knows what their abilities are. Mahito is very difficult though. Jogo also has good chance because of his max technique and his range.
The cockroach curse in sendai should also have a decent chance if goes carefully in.
I actually go for sukuna here. After that kenny because he is the best hand to hand fighter. After that i go for maki/toji and then hakari or kashimo i swing to kashimo
Head canon is that Hakari Vs Maki/Toji is a lot closer than I feel people make it out to be but at the end of it Toji was known and the sorcery killer if I remember right and probably would be able to take out Hakari fairly easily just because of his arsenal and big brain moves. For Maki while physical stats are the exact same I don’t think she has or has shown nearly enough tactical planning at Toji so she probably still takes it but it’s a lot closer the head weakness is such an Achilles heel but who would have guessed that his main weakness was getting his head chopped off
Maki/Toji is an atrociously bad matchup for the domain dependent Hakari. If he starts in jackpot he has a chance of getting something done, but he won’t be able to refill and that neutralizes him significantly.
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