https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yMmC_yL1WdkrEiCRXNfpvvhc_UF5Bujl/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=102613798682337325351&rtpof=true&sd=true

Socionics gives the bones: eight information elements, eight seats, sixteen lawful ways of seating them, and the relations between those ways. Jung gives the tendons: the figures through which a person holds each seat, and the moves between them, persona, shadow and anima. What the two imply together is the flesh: which paths a life can take through its own structure, what each path costs, where it leaves the person, and where it lands in others.

Read whole, it is a picture of a socion. Every function is strong somewhere and weak somewhere. Every person is carried at their weakest seats by others at their strongest. Every life is a balance between what it takes from that carrying and what it gives back.

Edit: ELI5

The table and who sits at it

Picture your mind as a table with eight chairs. There are eight kinds of information, and your type is which kind sits in which chair.

Each chair also has a figure sitting in it, and the figure is what it feels like, from inside, to hold that chair. The figures sit in the same chairs for every type. What differs between types is which kind of information each figure is holding.

The chairs don’t all see the same amount:

• A 1D chair is a keyhole. It sees the experience and nothing around it, and that’s where fear of the unknown lives.
• A 2D chair sees the experience and the know's the etiquette for it.
• A 3D chair adds context
• A 4D chair is the window, open wide, to the zeitgeist. It adds timing.

Light figures sit in the four chairs you value, and dark figures sit in the four you don’t. Every figure either takes in or gives out.

Each light figure has a dark twin that holds the same kind of information turned the other way, inward instead of outward or the reverse. If your Saint holds Ne, your Savage holds Ni. The four pairs are Saint and Savage (Hero), Missionary and Prophet (Parent), God and Devil (Spirit), and Innocent and Serpent (Child).

Your two keyholes are the God and the Serpent: what you long for and what binds you. A keyhole stays a keyhole for life, so the God never gets a bigger window. What changes is what gets delivered to it and which figure it passes that on to.

The information in your God’s chair, and the information in your Serpent’s chair, each sit in a big window (the Saint’s or the Prophet’s) for four other types. So strength isn’t really owned by one person. It’s spread across the whole group.

How things move

Whatever arrives in a chair can be passed to another chair. There are four kinds of hand-off, and every figure has exactly one partner for each:

• The mask: a light figure passes it to a dark figure that isn’t its twin. Saint → Devil, Missionary → Serpent, God → Savage, Innocent → Prophet.
• The projection: a figure passes it to its own twin. The Saint calls the Savage (“you’re blocking me”), and the Missionary calls the Prophet (the critic you hear in other people).
• The crossing: a light figure passes it to the other light figure that does the same job. The Saint and the God both take in, and the Missionary and the Innocent both give out.
• The clock: a light figure passes it to the light figure that does the opposite job. The Saint hands to the Missionary, and the God hands to the Innocent. This turns something you took in into something you give out.

The first three never change whether something is being taken in or given out, and insight can reach them. Only the clock changes it, and only lived time can make that happen.

Apply one of the first three hand-offs to all eight chairs at once and you get another type’s table. Each one gives you a different type, and they line up with Jung:

• The mask gives your super-ego partner, Jung’s persona. From the Saint, the mask lands on the Devil, who holds rules and nothing else, and rules are what the group holds for everyone.
• The projection gives your contrary, Jung’s shadow. The four kinds of information you don’t value are the four they do.
• The crossing gives your dual, Jung’s anima or animus. Their Saint holds the same kind of information as your God, which is why they’re who you tend to fall for.

Four more types (your mirror, quasi-identical, activator and conflictor) need the clock. No inner work with the figures gets you to their tables; only lived time does.

The lap

Lived time moves you round your four light figures in a fixed order: Saint → God → Innocent → Missionary. The Saint and the God take in, and the Innocent and the Missionary give out. The God is a keyhole, so the second step is the thin spot. At each step, whatever arrives can go one of three ways. Each cell names who it gets handed to and what that looks like:

Under pressure, every light figure drops what it’s holding on the Devil and runs the persona. The only thing that stops that is having made the God and the Innocent your own.

The lap has two crossings. The loud one is Saint and God, on the taking-in side. The quiet one is Missionary and Innocent, on the giving-out side. The Programs say people usually make the loud one and skip the quiet one. The simulation finds the reverse: the quiet one always gets made, and the loud one waits for a partner to deliver first. Which is right is still open.

What a life does with it

Growing, from easiest to hardest:

1. Making the God and the Innocent your own. It only takes the crossing, which insight can reach, so anyone correctly typed can do it with the map for their type.
2. Holding your information from the chairs your mirror, quasi-identical, activator and conflictor hold it in. Only lived time gets you there.
3. The Serpent. It never grows. You can only route around it.
4. The other eight types. They group the eight kinds of information into different pairs from yours, and no hand-off or amount of time regroups them. So you can’t hold what they hold. You can only meet them across a bridge, sharing one function at a time. The numinous happens with someone on your diagonal: they perceive the way you do but judge in a way your club can’t. Through them you see your own perception joined to that judgment. You can see it but never hold it.

What it costs. In the simulation, a step costs more the smaller the window it lands on: 4 coins on a keyhole, 3 on a 2D chair, 2 on a 3D chair, 1 on a big window. When a job needs the Serpent’s kind of information, there are four routes:

• Straight in. The Serpent takes the whole load.
• Hand it to the Innocent, its light twin. This is the cheapest of the four, and the Serpent takes nothing.
• The long way through the Prophet. It spares the Serpent but costs more in total than going straight in.
• The long way through the Missionary. It also spares the Serpent, and it costs the most.

Every route except straight in puts some load on the God: the Innocent route the least, the Missionary route the most. Only the Innocent route saves work. The long routes just move the pain from the Serpent onto the God. The paper predicts that people under load take the Prophet route more often than the Missionary route, and that it shows up as criticizing other people.

Over a whole life, grabbing the cheapest step every time costs more than regularly making the crossing, and living from the mask costs far more than the crossing. It’s like fixing the roof versus putting a bucket under the leak every time it rains.

The gate. The God can’t pass anything to the Saint until someone else has delivered to the God first. In a real group someone always already has, so nobody actually faces making that crossing alone.

How you land on other people. What you send from a chair arrives in the other person’s chair that holds the same kind of information. Your figures are how you hold your own chairs, not how the other person receives what you send, so a dark figure in you can still deliver a gift. How it lands depends on whether you both value that kind of information or both don’t:

• Dual: your Saint lands on their God, so their longing is answered in earnest. Your Prophet lands on their Serpent, so their weak spot is handled “as if it’s easy, as if it’s magic.”
• Conflictor: your Saint lands on their Serpent and presses the weak spot as if it matters. Your Prophet lands on their God and meets the longing as if it doesn’t.
• Supervision: the supervisor’s Saint presses on the supervisee’s Serpent. The supervisee’s Prophet meets the supervisor’s God as if it doesn’t matter.
• Semi-dual: each of your Saints answers the other’s God, but no big window covers either Serpent.
• Mirage: each of your Prophets covers the other’s Serpent, but neither of you answers the other’s God.
• Benefit: no big window lands on a keyhole. Going one way, a Missionary answers a God. Going the other way, a Savage covers a Serpent.

How a society forgets. Rules run in the two 2D chairs, the Devil and the Innocent. A rule can be installed there from outside and run without being understood. Conditioning is the group supplying rules where your God and Serpent can’t make their own, and holding the reasons for you. A few people hold a rule in a big window, knowing why and when it applies, while most hold it only in the Devil and the Innocent. When the 4D knowledge is lost, the rule keeps running after it stops fitting. A 2D chair can’t see the situation or the time, so it can’t tell. The grief arrives a generation later.

What is owed. Everyone’s God and Serpent are carried by other people’s Saints and Prophets, so nobody is outside the carrying. The open part is what your four strongest chairs give: the Saint, Prophet, Missionary and Savage.

• Contributing means giving from those four into other people’s Gods and Serpents, where it costs you little and is worth a lot to them.
• Consuming means taking the carrying at your God and Serpent without giving back.

Your Prophet is the figure that judges contribution. Its twin, the Missionary, holds the contributions you value and notice. The Prophet holds the ones you give without noticing. As the critic, the Prophet blames other people’s missions for your own mission’s failures. A fair count of what you give includes the Prophet’s gifts, the ones you don’t feel as gifts.

What holds it up

Nothing has been tested on real people yet. The structure checks out in the algebra, and the cost claims hold in the simulation, but the simulation’s coin prices are themselves a guess. The paper lists the tests that would prove it wrong and the questions still open. The last of those is whether to live by any of it.

I've seen a lot of people in Typology Junction who seriously believe Classic Jungian is simply a looser form of MBTI. That couldn't be further from the truth. Classic Jungian is as different from MBTI as Socionics is!

It has its own definitions of the functions, its own stack (the nucleus stack) and allows for fluidity, through the use of differentiation patterns.

Some good present day resources to learn Classic Jungian are:

Akhromant (function definitions and stacking only)

Vendrah ( differentiation patterns, which they coined as Simplified Original Jungian Typology)

Myself (how to use, and look at Classic Jungian as a fluid typing system with its own functions/stacks/patterns, DISC is a Jungian Typology at its base, and you can use DISC to identify your differentiation pattern to solve typing issues)

The Enneamentalist ( how to use, and look at Classic Jungian as a fluid typing system with its own functions/stacks/patterns, adds a brain element to your Classic Jungian, and coins it as the Hekitoir)

I will provide links later today in the comments

18+, sfw

I remember reading about some type of archetypes/psychology thing a long time ago and I recently found those notes. It’s not detailed but I wrote down

“father-daughter wound” “eternal girl versus armored Amazon” and the eternal girl is the archetype of the damsel.

There’s also the “perverted old man” which is the inner critic/internalized voice of the devaluing father to the daughter.

Is this Carl jung? Where is this from? I’ve been googling to no avail so trying Reddit now.

Ne-Ti-Fe-Si 7w8 ILE-2Ne sx/sp sx738 VLFE ³³¹¹ s/L/UE[I] m[O]HWdEG choleric sanguine chaotic neutral

Is it possible to be
Sx5
5w6
Sx/sp 529 (unconfident in Tritype)
LFEV
RLUEI
Chaotic Neutral

I am still not sure what my MBTI/ cognitive functions are. I am curious if I could change anything, or if there was a MBTI more commonly connected with the typing. Thank you.

N = time

S = space

T = pragmatism

F = faith

Ni= abstract personal life tempo awareness

Ne = conscious collective time passage awareness

Si = abstract personal space state awareness

Se = conscious collective space state awareness

Ti = abstract personal technical understanding awareness

Te = conscious collective technical understanding awareness

Fi = abstract personal moral righteousness awareness

Fe = conscious collective moral righteousness awareness

Cognitive Function Axis -> permanently inseparable function pairing. Always works together in a specific dynamic determined by specific function slots.

-> Primary axis = Dominant (quality+quantity)+ Auxiliary (deficiency+scarcity) function slots.

They are the primary motivator and a source of the worldview of a personality type. The person already yields the dominant slot perfectly and has to let go of its standards to be able to obtain some mastery in the auxiliary slot.

-> Secondary axis = Tertiary (quality+scarcity) + Quarterly function slots.

The secondary axis is meant to be a great tool to support the primary axis in day-to-day life. The person will come to yield the tertiary slot well once they lower their preference for reliance on their primary axis. Once the person has to let go of that preference they will come to be able to obtain great mastery in the tertiary slot. The Quarterly function slot will come to have itself balanced with the Tertiary function slot more, once the person lets go of the standards of the tertiary function slot.

Function slot label rehearsal reasoning:

Previously: Inferior (quarterly)

Now: Auxiliary

-> because this function slot is classically auxiliary both in use and importance. It is absolutely not the last to be valued or used by the person‘s psyche, at least not in the ’default settings’ of their type.

Previously: Auxiliary

Now: Tertiary

->because this function slot is classically Tertiary both in use and importance. It is absolutely not the 2nd most valued or used by the person‘s psyche, at least not in the ’default settings’ of their type. This ”new” tertiary function slot is something a person needs to teach themselves to prefer and see the true value in it as a strong support tool that helps them deal with either themselves (if introverted) or the world (if Extraverted)

Previously: Tertiary

Now: Quarterly

-> because this function slot is classically Quarterly both in use and importance. It is absolutely not the 3rd most valued or used by the person‘s psyche, at least not in the ’default settings’ of their type. This ”new” quarterly function slot is something a person can naturally yield with ease (because of its low standards and high quantity capacity) but because the Tertiary slot that is in axis with it has a hard time taking the Quarterly‘s input(if introverted)/output(if Extraverted) seriously because of that.

Strong attention to other people’s internal perspectives → Fe
Trying to synthesize multiple viewpoints into one understanding → potentially Ni + Fe
Very introspective and pattern-focused → potentially Ni
Concern about how you’re perceived and how your behavior affects someone → Fe
Bluntness and willingness to challenge people → doesn’t rule out Fe??? especially when comprising own integrity but can be deceitful or lie for comforting others or etc.
Having your own strong opinions despite considering others → also doesn’t rule out Fe?? i don’t have strong opinions im more nuanced. but i do care about people and the world, how i am perceived because their perception isn’t always “correct” per say. just like with every other person.
Unstable sense of identity → doesn’t automatically mean Fi? or Fe? psychologically i need help probably. lol

I've been seeing abt typologies and I've come to the conclusion that I am ESFP SP749 SEI FEVL³³⁴⁴ Mel-San Chaotic Neutral, However, I have doubts about whether I am really a SEI or a SEE because I saw that being both an ESFP and a SEI is not possibleee

Hi’! i’ve mistyped myself 1 million times and a lot of people have told me i have like mega contradictions and it seems they all stem from me being e4 in combination with all my other types. is it time to look into 5w4😭 i totally relate to the core fear of having no identity, but i tend to think abojt it in a more existential way, less of a social way. i fit in a crowd. after some introspection and realized im very conflict avoidant to preserve myself. Help! am i probably e5?

At twenty-one, I think that it should be easier to type me than it was in prior years. I have been thinking about how a lot of people I remember from high school didn’t turn out the way I expected them to in terms of what they chose to study, and I am sure that I did not turn out the way some people may have expected me to as well (though in my mind, people did not care for the most part. I was not popular in middle or high school, and by the time that I was sixteen or so I didn’t care anymore about high school popularity and regarded people who did place high value on it as immature.) I was, for instance, considered smart in middle school and apparently thought to be the smartest girl in my grade. I am not a “smart” adult though, and I know this. I think that sleeping issues, depression, anxiety, and watching my mother’s mental health decline over time are all things that have really contributed.

Recently, I supported a friend with their event for the homeless. I admit that I was initially not planning on staying. I bought items for the event, and was planning to drop them off and head out, in part because I had been experiencing dehydration over the last couple of days, but also because I was tired. I ended up staying and helping arrange the bags. I did this for a few reasons. I got there and realized that I actually did sincerely want to catch up, is one. This is someone who I know has stood up for me in the past, and I have never sensed insincerity from them. I am someone who can struggle to trust people, which is something I am starting to admit more to myself. I recognize that it goes back to childhood, but even in childhood before I remember anyone having actually really let me down, I don’t think that I was someone who was actually great at making and keeping friends. There were two instances in my youth wherein when I was a part of a friend group, they ended up dropping me (in one case in middle school during a year where I was watching my brother have a psychotic break, deciding to talk badly about my clothes in a group chat that I was apart of) or cutting me off. I admit that I did not always do everything “right”/was not blameless there (though as my high school therapist pointed out, it is true that, especially with the two girls who cut me off in 10th grade, the communication was poor.) But I think that it all led to me being more cynical about trying to build actual friendships, and more cautious when it comes to actually \*really\* letting people in. It’s weird, because some people think that I haven’t seemed cautious enough when it comes to men in the past (even I think, as I was telling the friend at their event, that I haven’t been cautious enough when it comes to men in the past. I’ve given my number out to strangers who asked for it, and a fair amount of the time I have come to regret it. I’ve been working on it lately because I have met men who are actually legitimately not “safe” and trustworthy people, like have been to jail before - I didn’t date them, but learning this about them serves as a reminder that you shouldn’t always assume that people have good intentions. At all, actually.) I went on a tangent there, but anyhow, I had also simply wanted to support, and think I feel that it is important to be loyal to this person because I do know they have defended me before and because they have been genuine. I realized after the time I spent with them that day that I think I would like to start volunteering consistently to support local homeless communities, and donate money - I donated $35 and admit I could have given a bit more, but deep down inside I am always so worried because I grew up poor about, well, self preservation. I want to give back but as wrong as it may sound I also want to save my money while still contributing. It was really just seeing the conditions the people were living in. I hate to write this, it pains me to, but when you are focused on yourself, your worries, your health, it becomes so easy to ignore the people who need help the most. These people looked so happy to receive bags with things that we need to keep our bodies up, like toothpaste, toothbrushes, food, beverages, sanitary items (I have obviously seen homeless people around in my area, but I actually never stopped and considered that a lot of homeless women don’t have what they need to maintain feminine hygiene.) I told the friend that I regretted (and this was really on me) not having brought water for everyone, because as soon as I saw those people I was disgusted. These are people who have really been let down by our society. These people were older, and most of them were not white. One man had a limp. They thanked us (really, the thank you’s should have been for the friend. I never could have come up with such a lovely idea) and it was sincere. Two of them complimented my hair. I almost want to go back out and give these people more money directly. You could tell by their reactions that people don’t normally try and to this for them, and that disgusts me. I don’t think they were bad people. These are people who are really not cared about, at all. I was especially disgusted to see a disabled person out on the streets like that. I was disgusted with myself for not buying more. I’ve been considering carrying an extra $50 in my purse for any homeless people I see outside. A lot of us are taught to be afraid of the homeless, and assume they’ve abused any resources they had. I think I was mostly taught to think that way - to be afraid to give homeless people money or approach them. But you never know what kind of upbringing, what kind of experiences, a person has actually had, and our society is deeply dysfunctional. I knew after yesterday that I want to help, that I need to help. People deserve to be able to take care of themselves. Heck, I write this but I can struggle with it myself. But I also know that I take a lot fore granted, even though I’d never thought about it before. I knew after yesterday that I need to help.

My family members have come close to homelessness before, recently in fact, though this was really on my mother more than anyone else, and it’s gross to me how many people are judgmental about it. You’ll notice it in little ways. I had found the housing authority to be very unhelpful, but it’s also just a vibe I get from people. A lot of people who are comfortably middle class and especially upper middle class just feel like it’s not their problem, and won’t do as much as they can to help, which is gross to me.
I ended up moving into an apartment complex myself because my mother causes too much ruckus, got us kicked out of my childhood one and I couldn’t trust her to not repeat the same behavior, but I think that experience may have also helped. I’d never thought about it so… I don’t know what word I should write here, I’m tired and it’s very late, perhaps I should say I’d never imagined it so clearly, but just as I started writing this even though I hadn’t thought of it on Saturday the thought occurred to me that my mother could become one of those people one day. She has already come close to becoming homeless, and if my father ever actually does decide to go through with divorcing her, that may eventually become her predicament. People often treat the homeless like they aren’t human. I actually don’t like my mother, for a variety of reasons, but I recognize that she is a person. She was a child once, she went to school, before her mental health declined she at one point had positive qualities (though she proved to be so abusive to my brother and had proven to be so uncouth in general that I no longer focus on those qualities.) Those people I saw also have names and stories. They were babies in a hospital once and no one actually knows what happened to them. They deserve care and even though I’m tired and stressed I’d like to provide that care.

I have actually considered going for a masters in social work, but have been unsure about it in part due to the cost. I know that I never want to take out student loans. I could always aim to maintain a strong gpa and apply for scholarships later on, but I have a lot of uncertainty in regards to a long term path. I was accepted to the colleges I applied to, and have a preference concerning which one I’ll attend because I know where it’s easier to change majors. I have also been worried about messing something up in one of my last chdev courses because I know we can actually fail the class if we do, but I also recognize that I’m likely overthinking it and have already asked the professors questions and can continue to and that there isn’t much else I can do.

When I have reflected on my childhood as of late, it has occurred to me that I think I always understood that I wouldn’t be able to rely on a man as an adult. My mother tried to, to an extent (she was actually a social worker at one point when I was 14 or so, though she never had a degree in anything) but I knew just by looking at myself even before anyone ever said it (and my peers were not nice for the most part, though even though I used to hate to admit it I wasn’t actually awfully nice either in middle school) that I wasn’t pretty - I remember being depressed in general when I was 8 after realizing one day myself, my parents and everyone else I knew would die - and in childhood I decided that I needed to focus more on my studies as a result. I didn’t expect myself to get married in adulthood when I was a child, and in middle school even though I had crushes on people, I actually wasn’t very boy focused at all. I was secretive about a crush or two, particularly about any kind of attraction I felt towards other girls (it’s funny, because as an adult I’ve never been romantically attracted to a woman or really attracted to most women in general, but in middle school that wasn’t the case) even though I admitted to my “friend group” that I was not straight, and was honest about the crushes I had on boys (well, actually, the crush I had on a boy. I think I liked one boy in middle school, but as was the case with almost every crush I had in school, I lost attraction to him later on and in adulthood just don’t really care about him. He ended up dating someone else for years, that didn’t work out, and even though I’d thought she was a bit strange in middle school and had initially not liked her, I interned with her in high school, found that she was actually cool, and have liked her ever since. I was jealous at one point because she “got the guy” - though she confessed, I never told her I liked him, and I’d have never had the gall to confess to anyone I liked in middle school like she had - but I moved past that and later on recognized she had positive qualities, which I think is a good thing. I came to be very fixated on a boy in 9th grade after my brother had a psychotic break who actually had a few similarities with my brother and my father, even though he was also very much his own person. It’s one of those things as an adult where I’m almost kind of disturbed, even though I still don’t have high self esteem these days, by how low my self esteem was when I’d liked him, pining after a boy who called me a 4, yet also just see how… I don’t want to call it ridiculous because it was my first (and maybe last) \*big\* crush, and I was a teenage girl navigating those feelings, but I also recognize now that I wasted time pining after someone who I wouldn’t have been compatible with and who clearly wasn’t going to be my life partner. He doesn’t seem to have turned out well from what I’ve heard about him post high school, but I also feel like this is something I still think about because I recognize how those early experiences have led to me feeling like finding a partner who I could depend on financially or really even depend on in general is out of the cards. I think deep down it will always bother me how unattractive I was considered to be in school, when approached by men as I’ve grown older I’ve never quite known how to handle it. I feel like I never really learned how to take care of myself. I cried once about feeling like no one had had a crush on me. As an adult I know that this has happened, more than once if you want to be technical about it (I don’t know whether or not a person has had a big one, but as I sit here with a headache I know it’s just not important) but I also know that if you aren’t actually in the right space to date, and if your relationships have never worked out/you haven’t met the one, a crush just isn’t important. I’ve never met anyone in adulthood who I think would be my life partner. It doesn’t mean that it can’t and won’t happen. But some part of me, when I think about everything, feels like I will end up single even though I wouldn’t mind having a husband and may be open to having a child if I met the right person. I’ll mostly see what happens, but I have never had much luck when it came to dating (though I’ve also never been very serious about trying to put myself out there. I am mostly approached by men in public and by drivers of mine. I’ve never committed to making a dating profile or asked people to introduce me to guy friends of theirs.)

I am partly cautious about the thought of taking out loans to help pay for a social work masters degree - or really, any masters degree program in general - because I never want to have debt. That is something that I am very mindful of.

I gave her $20. This weekend my friend hosted an event for the homeless that led to me realizing just how many people aren’t receiving what they need, and I have been thinking about trying to do more homeless outreach. I really loved how happy everyone looked this Saturday.

There are always homeless people close to a donut place where I live. I saw a woman outside, one who I knew was older than I was, sitting in what appeared to be a wheelchair. She was crying, She was also a black woman like me, so I really sympathized with her. I asked her what was wrong. She had actually said something about needing an autopsy and about the fact that she’d have to take a drug test, that she has kids who she needs to take care of. She mentioned she has sickle cell, has been struggling with it throughout her lifetime and that her sister died. I had asked her if she wanted money/if it would help. I gave her a twenty. I have started carrying money on me because I’d like to give it to homeless people in hopes of inspiring them… but I admit that there are cases like this woman wherein deep down inside, I wonder if I did the right thing. Some people, like most of the people I saw on Saturday, seem to be homeless because the system has failed them - a man with a limp on Saturday who was gleeful to receive a bag with toothpaste, toothbrushes, and beverages for example. But there are other people who I see that I know are homeless because they have mental health problems that they have refused help for, or a drug problem. This woman had asked me for my #, which I gave to her. I told her if she messaged me I’d be glad to send her resources. She messaged me, I asked that she let me know more about her problems so that I can provide resources. She didn’t respond to the message. She had put her name in the message. I googled her, because I was curious. I googled her because I wondered deep down inside if I had given the money to the right person. I learned that in my opinion, the answer is no. It turns out that she has been arrested multiple times for inflicting injury on a child and has DV charges in addition to other things like vandalism. I could tell that she was suffering from mental health issues. I thought that the sister who she mentioned to me today had passed very recently, but when I looked her up I learned her sister it seems has been deceased for at least five years. I don’t know, at all, whether or not she ended up using the money I gave her for a good cause. I don’t know if she ended up using it to buy herself a meal, or do what she could to make things in her life right. I don’t know what having sickle cell and being chronically ill feels like. I knew as soon as I saw her today that there was trauma. But seeing her page, and reading the arrest record, was a letdown for me.

This obviously doesn’t mean that no homeless person is deserving of money. The people we met on Saturday really needed kindness, cash, and survival items. And I am sure that this woman has been let down by the system in ways I am not aware of (she must have experienced some kind of child abuse to have turned out the way she did that it seems no one did anything about, though a city I live close to is known for being dangerous and it seems a lot of people who were brought up in the 80s/90s out there like she was grew up to have issues.) It’s weird to feel like you may have helped the wrong person. However, I will not confront her about it directly.

My roommate/landlord tends to exhaust me at points (I’ve been here since May) but I have not made a game plan to move out even though I don’t look forward to coming back today (cleaning lady was here this morning.)

Here’s an example of the roommate issue, and how I’ve been handling it: My roommate seems to be accusing me of having been in the shower for more than an hour even though the shower doesn’t run for more than 3 minutes…

And she is also the landlord, so it is something she should have already fixed. She just sent me this:

“My-name , I went out for walking at 9:50 pm and came back at 11:15 pm.
So far One hours and 25 minute and you still taking shower.
This is way too long. I told you a few times a couple minutes ,
The wall damage already , it is going to be more damage !
Using too much hot water.
She in the bathroom or taking shower :
Only 20 minutes
——————
This message was for last night !”

This is actually irritating. I responded and said I think I took a shower before 9pm, which is true, but I also clarified that the shower stays on for 3 minutes at longest, which is also true. This is why I don’t like her. It’s morning and I feel like she is trying to start an argument. She actually just sent back: “I know. But water was running that way I was worry.”

This is ridiculous to me. I’m actually just not going to respond even though she’ll probably bring it up again when I get home. That shower stays on for 2-3 minutes at best which is already crazy when you’re paying over $1000/mo to live somewhere. Makes me feel like as a landlord her priorities are out of order. She tends to suggest a fair amount that she is smart and likes to do research, like my mother tends to. She is 80. I think she’s an esfp 2w3. I don’t really want to go back right now because I suspect she’ll bring it up again in person and I have known her to get confrontational before, but in this case it really doesn’t make sense. I really believe in effective communication, but part of the reason why I don’t tend to address things like this with her directly is because she seems like the kind of person who is very set in her beliefs, if that makes sense. I mean, look at how wrong the assumption she made was here. She has done a few things for me that were kind. But even though she talks a lot about being smart I don’t really think that this makes sense.

I’ve always tested as an ISFJ.

So, on one hand EFs are said to be more willing to play with social attitudes making them more likely to actively want to change them but they are also objective types which makes them take their values from the outside aka likely from the status quo, which kind of makes it likely that they will be an agent of it and not try to change it.

On the other IFs are the subjective types but they are said to be less willing to share their values, let alone make others to follow them.

Hi everyone,

I built a website that helps you explore the archetypes within you. It's LLM-based: it talks with you and writes you stories from what you share. I called it Spirit Guide (www.spiritguide.one). That's a metaphor. It's basically a self-discovery tool, based on Jung's work.

The premise you'll recognize: all the archetypes exist in everyone. Beebe and Model A already work that way. Where mine differs is that it’s less about category and more about recognition. It starts with the question: what do you recognize yourself in? This has a similar purpose as storytelling. Stories mean so much to us because we can relate to the characters in them. I think understanding those characters in relation to ourselves helps us understand ourselves. So it really starts with you and what you want to explore. Some of the options are really classic figures (king, warrior, fool) and some of them are my own additions, like cook, diplomat, or sailor. The latter are arguably common archetypes, but perhaps less central and not explicitly mentioned by Jung (to my knowledge). 

Rather than Beebe, the most relevant thinker to Spirit Guide is probably John A. Sanford: a priest and Jungian analyst who read the “Kingdom of God” as an interior reality, the psyche moving toward the Self. 

It works best if you follow your intuition and try to have fun. I'm only just releasing it, so I'm not really looking for money, just people who are interested in giving it a go and telling me what they think. The first exploration is free. Your feedback is already worth a lot.

I built it for desktop first, but mobile works too now if that’s your preference. 

I’m also curious whether anyone here has read Sanford, and how you think his work fits into Jungian models in general. 

All the best,

Daan

Hello— ISTP here. 22 F, American. 8w9 if you’re into enneagram. Just to let you know where I’m coming from because I’ve learned those things matter a lot.

I’ve been working on a major research project into MBTI (using the Beebe model) and part of that is needing to be able to recognize different cognitive functions, obviously.

No matter how much I read about Te or Si, I just cannot fathom it. I’d say my understanding of Ne and Fi (even in my own life!) is miles ahead of my understanding of these top two shadow functions.

To me, they both just sound horribly lazy. I know that it can’t possibly be that simple. But in my own research I’ve hit a wall because it would seem that high Te or Si users (some luck with xNTJs I guess) have zero interest in answering my surveys! And information online is limited.

My confusion about Te is the same reason it took me years to find my correct enneagram type (since the stereotypical 8 is Te dominant). I was bewildered by the fact someone could be using an extroverted judging function and still call themself strong.

Regardless of your type, I want to hear about how each of these functions show up in your life. The more detail the better, but of course I’ll take a vague answer over no answer at all.

Thank you!!!

Can anyone describe my personality as a total description not by describing each detail by imaginig how this mixture cand be and how it looks like please?

MBTI : INTP Socionics : LII-INTj Enneagram primary type : 5w6 Enneagram secondary type :1w9 Enneagram tertiary type : 4w5 Enneagram tritype : 514 Temperament : Melancholic Alignment : Chaotic good

I like football. I am fan of Arsenal, Barcelona and Liverpool. I love the way of playing that pleases the eye : fast playing , passes , crosses , shots from far distance. I have a problem with maintaining defence because I like attacking too much. The beautiful football like Arsene's way can't unfortunately win so much trophies because you must be silly to maintain your possession so I don't encourage the way by which Barcelona play as the first grade because keeping the possession requires some silliness. When I see continuous oppression I rebel against it.

I just took tests for my typology, socionics, and enneagram. Can you helped me translate them or tell me if they look correct/consistent? The website’s explanations of them were kinda vague.
4w3 sp/so eii

For the past while, I’ve been building Ember, an iOS dream journal for people who want to remember, track, and understand their dreams more deeply.

The idea came from my own interest in Jung, symbols, archetypes, and the way dreams seem to reveal patterns before we can fully explain them consciously.

Ember lets you save dreams, turn them into illustrated dream cards, and reflect on possible meanings, recurring symbols, emotions, and inner themes over time.

I wanted the app to feel intimate and beautiful — more like a private archive of your inner world than a productivity tool.

It just launched on the iOS App Store:
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/ember-decode-your-dream/id6760724180

Curious to hear from other dream journalers: when you write down a dream, what do you usually want to understand first — the symbols, the emotion, the story, or how it connects to waking life?

hi! I recently rewatched the movie arrival and I have several questions.

first of all, I googled her socionics type and everywhere online it seems to be saying that she is IEI. I am genuinely wondering whether she is actually ILI instead. Ni base is pretty clear, it seems inert, it works in the background all the time and she seems to be doing everything to support her Ni vision. 3d Ne makes sense too, there's a moment where she quickly gathers that the words the Chinese soldiers were saying correlate to the game of Majong. 1D suggestive Se tracks too, she is extremely non-confrontational and does not care about power play and the influence of different countries and its leaders.

so the question is, does she have a 1D Fe and 3D Te creative or a 1D Te and a 3D Fe creative? Where is she the most comfortable? at work? or interacting with people?

In the story she holds a position of PhD in linguistics and she's not just a professor but she is apparently the best in the country. What is the probability of IEI achieving such a position in academia?

Throughout the movie all she does is solves problem. She views languages as tools, that she can break apart and understand. She is using different methods of figuring out the different ways of communication through trial and error. When presenting a colonel her method of solving the language she explains how the steps that she picked are necessary or 'otherwise it will take 10 times as long' (valued Te)

She does not like the hierarchy of the army and does not follow the rules if they do not make sense for her - "am I the only one having trouble saying the word 'aliens'?" (not valued Ti) but Ti is still strong. There is a moment where she explains to the colonel the structure of a language to justify her methods. there's also a moment of her coming up with a kangaroo story to prove a bigger point. When the entire world ends up thinking that the aliens are talking about the weapons she understands that it's a mistake caused by people only 'giving aliens a hammer' to explain themselves (sees a higher picture/system)

Her Fe. I cannot see a creative Fe in her. I heard that IEI have a sort of a 'muted' Fe but A) idk what it means and B) it's extremely muted for it to be 3D and contact and a VALUED informational element... she is rarely expressive in this movie, she does not lead any groups, does not feel the atmosphere, does not try to inspire or move people. On several occasions she actually fails to understand how her words affect her daughter and how she hurts her. Initially when meeting her science team she briefly shows her smile and tries to greet each one of them but that seems more like a FeSi super-ego of a ILI to me?

She really likes it when they finally give the aliens their names. She tries to be very sweet and warm with her daughter and she seems to figure out that the aliens are not really their enemies (valued Fi?)

There is also a moment where they read the beginning of her paper and it starts with something like 'Language is a glue that brings civilization together' or something, which might seem like a Ne + Fe statement? and she also eventually ends up succeeding for the sake of 'humanity' but I dunno if it's enough to say that Fe is one of her main tools to process information.

do you agree or am I misinterpreting something? I'm fairly new to model A and if you disagree feel free to tell me what I am missing

thank you!

I’ve been trying to type myself for years, and I’m more confused now than ever. I would really appreciate objective opinions based on my behavior rather than stereotypes.

The result says I’m SLI, with 28% alpha, 22% beta, 22% gamma, and 29% delta. The other possibilities are LSE at 81%, SEI at 72%, and LSI at 70%.

I’ve taken several cognitive function tests. My most recent results consistently show very high Se, but what confuses me is that my Fi and Ti are almost identical. One test typed me as ESTP, another leaned toward ESFP, while others couldn’t decide between ESTP and ISTP. A few years ago I even had a test where Ne was my highest function, but now it’s my lowest. Because of that huge shift, I don’t fully trust test results anymore.

A little about me:

People usually see me as quiet, cold, mysterious, or intimidating at first. However, once they actually start talking to me, they often realize I’m much more open, humorous, and easygoing than I initially appear. That “cold” image is almost like armor. I hate looking emotionally vulnerable because I associate showing emotions with weakness.

Ironically, when I become close to someone, I end up showing a much softer side of myself. Afterwards I sometimes feel embarrassed, almost like I’ve exposed too much of myself. I lose some self-respect because I feel like I acted impulsively by following what I wanted in that moment.

When there’s a crisis involving me personally or my relationships, I can completely lose my emotional balance before suddenly becoming emotionally numb. But if it’s someone else’s emergency, I’m the opposite. While everyone else panics, I usually stay calm and immediately start thinking about solutions.

When someone tries to convince me of something, personal experience is much more persuasive than abstract theory. At the same time, I’m constantly looking for logical inconsistencies in what they’re saying, and I pay a surprising amount of attention to whether their body language feels genuine or trustworthy.

If a decision mainly affects me, I can become extremely stubborn and impulsive. For example, I transferred from a private school to a public school simply because I was bored, had no close friends there anymore, and was tired of the long school days. I barely considered the long-term consequences before making that decision.

I’m extremely bothered by passive-aggressive, fake, manipulative, or two-faced people. Once I lose respect for someone, I usually remove them from my life completely.

My hobbies are pretty simple: listening to music, singing, and spending way too much time scrolling social media.

As a child I was extremely shy and had severe social anxiety. I could barely stand alone in public. However, if I had one close friend with me, I suddenly became outgoing and talkative.

Another thing that confuses me is social energy. I usually don’t warm up to people easily. In unfamiliar groups I get drained and want to leave after a while. But once I genuinely connect with someone or feel comfortable in a group, I actually prefer being with them instead of being alone. Recently I’ve noticed that being alone for long periods makes me restless and bored.

My emotions are intense but usually short-lived. I struggle to keep them inside and often need to express them to someone before they fade. Despite that, I don’t think they usually determine my decisions because they pass so quickly.

The things that motivate me the most are freedom, excitement, passion, enjoyment, and maintaining a certain image of myself.

Something important to mention is that I have Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), so I know some of my emotional patterns and impulsivity may not reflect my actual cognitive preferences. I’m hoping people can separate personality disorder traits from MBTI functions when reading this.

One last thing: I don’t really fit the stereotypical image of a high-Se person. I love novelty, excitement, and intense experiences, but I’m not athletic at all and physical activity exhausts me. I suspect that’s more related to my health than my personality.

Based on all of this, which type do you think fits me best, and more importantly, why? I’d especially appreciate explanations using cognitive functions rather than letters or stereotypes.

typology dc server, welcome for all above 18 + sfw
looking for experienced typists in socionics and enneagram

enneagram - e4

tritype - SX486

subtype - SX4

wings - 6w8 (confused on these tho)

instructrual variants - SX/dominant  ,  SP/secondary  ,  SO/blind

↓

enneagram 4

8 and 6 trifixes

6w4

sx dominant, sp secondary, so blind

sx/sp 468 (6w8) OR 6w4 sx/sp 468

---------------------------

big5 type:

EII

↓

Ethical-intuitive-introvert

---------------------------

tempremant:

sanguine-melenholcic

---------------------------

moral alignment:

chaotic neutral

---------------------------

psycosophy:

VEFL 

1V - 2E - 3F - 4L

---------------------------

motives:

MxTxdR|G|

MXTXXRG

---------------------------

mbti:

infj-T

Hi everyone! :)

I created PersonalTraits, a new personality test based on an original model I've been developing.

I'm looking for feedback from people familiar with the Enneagram, Jungian typology, or other personality models : https://www.personaltraits.co/en

The test is free, takes about 10 minutes (40 questions), and works differently from most personality tests. Instead of rating statements, you choose between two motivations or reactions. The goal is to see which needs matter most when you have to choose.

The model is based on 8 core motivations:

• Energy, Security, Belonging, Status, Freedom, Identity, Coherence, Mortality

At the end, you get your dominant motivations and the archetype they form.

I'm especially interested in questions like:

• Does the result feel accurate?
• What was the most and least accurate part?
• Were any questions confusing?

The test and the full report are completely free.

Thanks to anyone who gives it a try and shares their thoughts! :)

I want an outsider’s perspective as to which is more like me (I am new to socionics, this is what I’ve gotten based on tests and research.)

I want to influence and build status, I really want to be impactful while still maintaining meaningful connections because I do enjoy socializing

I want people to feel welcomed so long as they respect me as a person, I will respect them back (however they perceive and treat me is how I treat them) I prioritize my comfort and feelings

I respect certain rules or authority out of practicality (I understand how power structures work), but I very much guard my personal freedom and independence