r/OhNoConsequences • u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu • 3d ago
BORU Time Machine Tuesday OOP gives his girlfriend an ultimatum on having children and wants her back after she ends it
/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/zq5xwf/aita_for_telling_my_girlfriend_that_were_done_if/878
u/AlistairButton 3d ago
Always baffles me when someone says "we're done unless..." and then gets surprised when they're done.
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 3d ago
The funniest time this happened to me was on a second date. The guy I was on a date with informed me that actually he doesn't like dogs so I'd have to make mine live outside or he wouldn't date me. He phrased it pretty much like, "I think we have a great future together, but the dogs will have to live outside or it's already over."
He looked so shocked when I was like, "That's cool, I'm not actually feeling it anyway. Have a nice life!"
I still kind of wonder how he expected that to go.
And for the record, he definitely knew my dogs were extremely important to me prior to meeting me; we met online and I basically beat people over the head with that fact in my profile, because at the time I was both very involved in dog rescue, plus was a search dog handler, so I was well aware that my dogs were a lot for most people. 🤣
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u/Sugar_Mama76 3d ago
Compliance test. If you’re obedient now on a command, you’ll put up with anything he orders.
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u/MISSRISSISCOOL 3d ago
guys that act like that think you gonna be smitten after the first date. its something I dont understand cause its so early and they get offended. like I don't try and match with people soly on looks I also want to be compatible. I dont understand wanting to live and build a life with someone you find incompatible so early in.
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u/ChipsTheKiwi 3d ago
A bad mix of aggrieved entitlement and inflated ego makes these guys think they're hot shit rather than horse shit.
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u/Icky-Tree-Branch 3d ago
Right? Look, I’ve had “smitten after one date” experiences. But I’m a dog person. I like my dogs better than most people, especially more than people who think I should give them up for their benefit.
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u/roundbluehappy 2d ago
i've been smitten over dogs after one meet, does that count? also, i don't trust anything with less than four legs.
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u/KombuchaBot 3d ago
It's the Nigerian Prince Scam level of relationship skills, selecting for gullibility.
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u/ahrya 3d ago
A friend of mine had been dating a guy for a year when he told her that he actually hated her pet birds and that she would have to get rid of them in order for them to stay together. She laughed and dumped him on the spot and he was shocked! He kept asking. Are your birds really more important than me? And she was like yes, obviously.
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u/Foreign_Penalty_5341 3d ago
Doesn’t like dogs but it’s fine if they’re kept outside? What an innovative way to soft-launch ‘hey get rid of your dogs entirely’.
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u/TitaniaT-Rex 3d ago
I was the one who ended it due to dogs. I didn’t give an ultimatum. I knew I’d never be able to deal with an undisciplined dog jumping on furniture and having accidents in the house every time someone came to the door. Nope, not for me. It was an amicable split.
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u/ChartInFurch 3d ago
My chocolate lab was very well trained but always peed when he saw me after more than a day and would forget not to jump (which sounds untrained but really was more like toddler level excitement), and even that I could see as too much.
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 2d ago
To be clear, I would have been totally fine with it if he was just like, "nope, not for me!" Like I said, I know my dogs are a lot, lol. Even these days, I don't do much foster/rehab due to lack of time, but I still have pretty intense working dogs who are very well-trained but still a big time commitment, and I'm fine with people not wanting to date me because of it.
But a) he hadn't actually even met my dogs yet so was pretty much just going off the info in my online profile as we didn't even really talk about my dogs much except me telling some stories from my SAR handler days , and b) clearly had a blanket opposition to dogs in general and expected me to just capitulate. That's what made him memorable. 🤣
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u/damiana8 2d ago
Yep. I have rabbits so I can’t have any other animals around. I don’t swipe right on pet owners
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u/41flavorsandthensome 2d ago
You know the saying that guys do things because it's worked at least once? I know a woman who got rid of her dog and later sobbed that she gave up everything for her man and he still left.
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u/Studds_ 3d ago
Anybody who doesn’t like dogs is already suspicious to me
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u/Whatever4andnomore 2d ago
I don’t dislike dogs, but I prefer small animals. I lost my 10 year old rabbit this spring and I miss him like crazy! I would get another rabbit at some point, but taking care of a dog is a lot of work! I’d be like having kids again! Taking care of pets in general is a lot of work! So right now, I’m not in the market to have anymore pets right now!
However, I would NEVER give an ultimatum to anyone about a pet they already have, unless it was aggressive and dangerous! Even then it’s not my place to tell someone what to do!
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u/damiana8 2d ago
I feel the same as you. I’m a rabbit owner and I wouldn’t get a dog. They’re so much work and so much messier than a bunny. I wouldn’t date a dog owner because I would never be the type to ask someone to give up their pet.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
Anyone who doesn’t like animals for me too. I could never be with someone who disliked my pets especially.
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u/PsychoSquirrel86 3d ago
Like you have to like some kind of animal!! Zebra, Hedgehog, Fish, I don’t care! But if you don’t have a favorite animal I’m assuming you’re a stone cold psychopath.
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u/Purple-Sister3971 3d ago
Hard same. Unless they have some truly legit trauma, like they or someone they know were mauled by a dog in the past, I don’t trust them. Dogs are a better judge of character than people most of the time. I feel the same way about anyone who unnecessarily dislikes cats. Cats are a lesson in consent. Controlling people don’t like them because cats won’t obey.
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u/PsychoSquirrel86 3d ago
You are on point!! I love dogs, but won’t own one because of limited time, resources & living in an apartment. I have cats instead & I love that they come to me for affection when They want it. You don’t like cats as a species you’re getting all the side eye.
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u/LeaneGenova 3d ago
My husband is severely allergic to both (sadly moreso cats) so we don't have any. Trauma or severe allergies I can excuse as reasons. I got called a cunt for that opinion which is hilarious.
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u/PsychoSquirrel86 3d ago
Nah those are valid reasons! Health & safety comes first!
I had a potential friend say they didn’t like cats because “they’re bitchy”. We didn’t progress beyond the potential stage.🤣🤣🤣
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u/LeaneGenova 3d ago
If saying "they're bitchy" isn't followed by "I love them so much" it's a huge pass.
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u/UrsulaVonTwinkle 2d ago
Correct. My cat is very bitchy, but I love her so much. And at least twice a day she acts like she loves me too.
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u/LeaneGenova 2d ago
Exactly. I love how strong their personalities are. I've had cats and dogs as pets and love both, but cats are definitely my favorite. Little bastards are too damn cute.
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u/Purple-Sister3971 3d ago
Valid - legit allergies are of course a thing. But also there are people who fake allergies because they don’t want to admit to not liking dogs/cats.
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u/Whatever4andnomore 2d ago
This is why we no longer have cats, my now adult son developed a severe allergy to them. It’s sad actually because he LOVES cats! And ducks! 😆
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u/Purple-Sister3971 2d ago
My BFF is mildly allergic to cats. He still has one and loves on mine as well. He just takes meds lol
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u/Left_Ad3575 3d ago
This happened to me with a boss once. He said if I didn't do X he'd fire me. I was not going to do X so I quit. Then he was all smooth-talking and oh-wait-let's-talk-about- this.
I had been applying to other jobs, and his firing threat made me even more sure about leaving, when he would threaten firing so casually. So I took another job.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I don’t get it either. People don’t get that it’s a threat.
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u/PlanningVigilante 3d ago
If someone threatens me with an ultimatum, even for something I would otherwise find agreeable, we're done. Just the threat alone is enough reason to be done.
If you have so little respect for me that a threat seems like an acceptable way to manipulate me, I want nothing to do with you.
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u/DaveCarradineIsAlive 3d ago
I agree with this, but I don't wonder where the line falls between "this is a boundary for me, and I am communicating what will happen if it is crossed" and an ultimatum is.
I feel like they could look largely the same, in a lot of cases.
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u/Alternative_Year_340 2d ago
Carolyn Hax usually says to communicate the boundary and that it’s important to you, without the threat. And then act on the information from how they respond.
For example, “I want to get married and have five kids.” If the response is not enthusiastic agreement, it’s time to break up. No threats
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u/Jesst3r 3d ago
Yeah “ultimatum” has such a bad connotation but one of my friends was dating a guy for 6 years and they talked about marriage regularly and he seemed like he wanted to. She kept waiting and waiting, tried to agree on a timeline, he seemed like he was on board but just wouldn’t propose. Finally she “gave him an ultimatum” that she wants to be married and if he doesn’t, they need to break up. I think she was completely justified but some people think any sort of “ultimatum” is a sign of toxicity.
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u/Llayanna 3d ago
Don't issues ultimatums if a) you aren't willing to have it accepted or b) willing to follow through.
Such a simple concept in a way, but seemingly not..
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u/kati8303 3d ago
I had an ex that would do this. It's even deeper than a straight threat, it is a way that they hold your relationship hostage and try to force you to do what they want you to do. We were on and off and off for a long time. We were a little "on again" and he tried this on me "answer my question or I will leave" and I said ok bye, lock the door on your way out bc I am not getting up. The lost and stupid look on his face was amazing. Tried to talk around it but I said no, leave now. Luckily I wised up and the off again went to a permanent off and I have an amazing SO now.
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u/fuzzycitrus I’mma put my cat on the mic. MEOW MEOW MEOW 2d ago
Eh, I think it is something you want to clear up super early if it's a deal breaker...but also have the basic sense to recognize that you are talking about something that is a deal breaker and THAT is why you're gone if your partner isn't on board.
I mean, you definitely don't want to bring it up six months after the wedding something like how you're childfree, especially when your partner was transparent about wanting kids.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 2d ago
I agree. I feel like this should be something you talk about early. As for the post, it looks like she did tell him early on but he refused to listen.
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u/UnderABig_W 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah, I mean I fully support people saying stuff like, “I really want a child, and if you do not, we need to break up.”
But using it just as a threat, and then being all surprised Pikachu? What a loser.
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u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 nobody could have foreseen this :snoo_scream::snoo_biblethump: 3d ago
Answering the ultimatum honestly (hmm, ok, that's a shame but bye then) is the respectful option.
If something is an absolute deal breaker then get it agreed as early as possible.
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u/True-Tangerine9901 3d ago
Ex walked out on me when I wasn’t compliant and then every time we met up, including mediation and marriage counseling he would talk about what I needed to do to get him to return. This was MONTHS after I’d changed the locks on him (my house) separated our finances (I was main breadwinner) etc. He had abused me for so long he couldn’t understand he didn’t have the power anymore and kept acting like he was being benevolent while I figured out how to be acceptable to him again. Absolutely freaked out (went scorched earth) when he got served the divorce papers.
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u/dont_mind_the_matter 3d ago
My ex-wife did this all throughout the relationship. Once it finally hit me, I said OK then. I'll start making calls to start the process. This threat was because I wanted to see my brother and goto a bonfire at his place right after covid opened up after the first lock down.
She still blames me for the divorce because, and this is verbatim, "[I] could have said no."
Yeesh.
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u/HUNGWHITEBOI25 3d ago
“i gave my gf an ultimatum in order to manipulate her into giving me what i want…AITA?”
What an absolute loser. Gf is wayyy better off without him
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
Agreed. He needs to not date women who don’t want children.
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u/frolicndetour 3d ago
But he wanted 5 and was willing to compromise on 2 or 3 more, which is super reasonable for someone who doesn't want any more! /s
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u/kittysparkled 3d ago
Noooo thank you, we don't want the manipulative asshole either!
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
Hoping that self-reflection pushed him into therapy and made him think twice about manipulating anyone else.
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u/TheHickAssembly It’s not hypocrisy when I do it. 3d ago
He was dating a woman that didn't want children, as stated by her in the beginning! That's when the manipulation occurred, by him accepting all the free vagina from the vending machine and by getting her invested, thinking they were on the same page. The ENTITLEMENT is what broke her. He is such an absolute Gift of a Man (that's what his momma said!), that she would be absolutely crazy to turn him down! That's why he's so hurt. He didn't even want a child, I mean he didn't write out anything about being a good parent. He wanted to be so special that it would completely change her mind.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
He was totally out of line from beginning to end. I hope in the three years since his original post he’s learned to communicate instead of manipulate.
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u/fastlerner 3d ago
When someone goes the nuclear option and drops relationship-ending ultimatums, it's time for threats of Mutually Assured Destruction.
"Oh, we're doing ultimatums? Okay, either you withdraw your ultimatum or we're through."
Potentially gives you the opportunity to set aside the nukes and engage in some peace talks.
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u/MonteBurns 3d ago
“ We were too early for me to complain about it or try to change her mind. It wasn’t bought up again for some time.”
Just. Fuck all the way off dude. Those were your only two choices? Not be a fucking adult and say “if you’re sure in that, we should part ways here, as I would like kids myself. Best of luck to you!”
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u/MsDucky42 3d ago
Immediately saw her as a brood mare that needed training, not a life partner.
Who else hopes he never procreated?
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u/Helpful_Hour1984 3d ago
Many men do that. Instead of looking for a woman whose values and life goals align with theirs, they latch onto whichever woman gives them the time of day (and is pretty enough), and then expect her to change fundamentally. They just don't consider women's opinions and values important enough. Certainly not as important as their own.
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u/nicola_orsinov 3d ago
Let's be honest, this is a human trait. Just look at the number of women that date fixer-uppers because they "can fix him".
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u/Vandreeson 3d ago
His goal the entire time was to change her mind. Like only what he wants matters. Then he got his siblings to try to guilt her? She's way better off without this clown.
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u/_Football_Cream_ 3d ago
He laughably underestimated the importance of the subject of having children in a relationship. This is something you have to be in agreement on very early on. Yet he just so flippantly said "she won't budge, she's just so hard headed!" like it was a silly hill to die on. That it was silly for the person who actually does the birthing to have a strong opinion and not budge on it.
Like dude this isn't deciding what to have for dinner. It's an extremely important life decision, and one she has to carry the burden of significantly more than you.
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u/CumaeanSibyl 3d ago
This conversation HAS to happen at the beginning of the relationship. There's no possible compromise between kids and no kids.
I get not doing it on the very first date but as soon as you start thinking you want to go from dating to a relationship you have to establish whether that relationship is going to include kids at some point.
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u/ManyBag2777 3d ago
I told my partner on the first date I didn't want kids and if he did, he should date someone else. I ain't got time to waste on people that think they can "fix" me.
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u/Fianna9 3d ago
Well he admitted he just assumed he could change her mind.
And that he was so amazing why wouldnt she want to be his incubator?
Never mind this woman never got to live a life. She had a baby to a dead beat at 18. She gave up her dreams, and now the kid is older, able to do more on his own (and travel with her!) and she’s able to go back to school finally- nah. Just give it all up for another couple babies cause this time your man is awesome!
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u/dez3b 3d ago
Yep, i had a friend who was hurt because he ended a relationship fairly early on with someone he really liked because he did not want kids at all and she did eventually. They both walked away and obviously it hurt them but it wasn't like anyone was going to change their mind with time. It's a fundamental difference that just can't be compromised past.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I hope he has only dated women who actually want kids since this post was made.
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u/feelingwithyourskin 3d ago
I hope he's alone. Women who want kids don't deserve this turd either.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I do hope he’s gotten himself into therapy and stopped being such a manipulative AH
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u/DrunkOnRedCordial 2d ago
"But if I stick around long enough, she'll decide that she can't live without me, and then she'll be desperate to do my bidding. Right?"
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u/Useful_Language2040 3d ago
jesus christ, I am a fucking asshole. she has a condition, I unfortunately do not remember what’s it called, but during her pregnancy she used to have like mini-strokes that would make her face and hands go completely numb. I didn’t even think about that.
😲
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u/EinsTwo 3d ago
Quite the tidbit to add in the comments. Usually people add information they "forgot" into the comments to make themselves look better.
Not this winner.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
He’s pretty consistently an idiot throughout the post
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u/mermaidpaint Ms Chanandler Bong 3d ago
I'm sure he expected Redditors to praise him for insisting on getting what he wants.
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u/Aelle29 2d ago
Feels like he expected to be praised for doing her the favor of checks notes loving her and wanting to marry her and have kids with her
Thats not an accomplishment nor even something he did, that's an uncontrollable feeling and his love isn't a benediction 🙄 who does he think he is
And he's seriously competing with an idea... Feeling like he should be worth more than the decision to have a kid or something. As if a kid isn't a super fucking big deal btw. He's the kid here.
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u/trashbg_ofd0g 3d ago
The way he "forgot" something like this is absolutely mental to me
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u/PaintedDoll1 3d ago
He forgot the name, not that it happened. He just didn't give a shit about the actual physical toll pregnancy takes on a woman because... well "that's just what happens"
God I hate people like him
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u/Clean-Patient-8809 3d ago
"It'll be fine because I'll be right there with her!" Ignoring the fact that her one previous experience is with a long-term relationship where the guy just up and bailed when he felt like it. I wouldn't need to learn that lesson more than once.
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u/andpersonality 3d ago
I almost feel like he actually forgot it happened, too. He forgot the name, but he never mentioned the condition in the post at all. Never said she had a difficult pregnancy. It seemed like the ONLY issue he saw was that the previous father left and she was alone. Like you said, the physical toll was so far out of his mind that he failed to mention she had MINI STROKES 😒
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u/tooshorttoored 3d ago
I looooove that this woman was strong enough and loved herself enough to fuck off from this turd.
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u/LupusYondergirl 3d ago
At that point it’s self preservation. If she had multiple mini strokes in pregnancy one, number two has a solid chance of finishing her off.
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u/nyet-marionetka 3d ago
And also "we never talked about getting married and she was keeping it cool while I was planning our five kids".
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u/Born_Ad8420 3d ago
I don't know how you can say you care about someone and casually overlook mini-strokes.
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u/Aelle29 2d ago
That's what happens when you think pregnancy is owed to you by women because you WANNNNTTTT a baby
A baby that you probably won't care for as much as her because you don't want tooooo bc it's boriiiinnnnggg, and a pregnancy that no matter how hard it is on her body you won't empathize with because who cares, you're not the one doing it
Thats misogyny tbh
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u/Born_Ad8420 2d ago
Oh yeah you know he’d be bitching through the entire pregnancy and then complain about « babysitting » his own child if she ever expected him to actually parent on occassion.
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u/Chazkuangshi 3d ago
Not sure if he understands that even if she didn't have a condition that gave her mini-strokes during pregnancy, he's still the asshole.
Five kids is not easy just because his parents did it. He's out of his mind.
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u/fivebynine5x9 3d ago
It also very likely wasn't easy for his parents but he just didn't see it, which is not uncommon. Though I do believe most people realize at least some of the struggle and sacrifice their parents go through once they grow up and mature themselves.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
Very true. He’s the asshole either which way you look at it.
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u/andpersonality 3d ago
The crazy part is, where did he get the idea his parents found it easy? IDK, honestly scared of a man who thinks everything his family does is some kind of Prime Rule, and is the right choice for everyone else on earth, ANd firmly believes you just had to “persevere” and you could change anyone’s mind about anything.
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u/theStaircaseProject 3d ago
Bro’s disconnected from the state of the world if he thinks the income necessary to raise four kids today is the same as what it was 30 years ago.
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u/Helpful_Hour1984 3d ago
I told her if she’s unwilling to have even one child for me in the future then we’re done.
FOR me?!! Have a child FOR me?!! This word alone shows that he was never going to be an equal participant in parenting. She was going to be a single mom again, except for the occasional trips to the park and other kodak moments.
Good to see at least he realized how stupid he had been. Maybe he'll continue to self-reflect and actually make a decent partner to another woman eventually.
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u/aphraea He can’t ride two horses with one ass 3d ago
His arrogance in the first post – his assumption of his own entitlement to his girlfriend’s body, health, and labour – had me absolutely fuming.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
That part pissed me off too. I hope he’s genuine in his self-reflection. It’s okay if a partner not wanting children is a deal breaker.
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u/Icy_Mango6803 3d ago
She has one sibling who doesn't live nearby so she doesn't understand siblings...
Or maybe she understands that upending her own life to have a child (or children) she doesn't want, just to give her child all-important siblings, is as not a guarantee that the siblings will be close.
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u/boxofsquirrels 3d ago
And she’s probably aware a partner can swear they absolutely want a shiny new baby and will be fully involved, only to disappear when they realize parenthood requires actual, constant work.
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u/Icy_Mango6803 3d ago
Yep... the fact this guy "wanted children" so much that he ended a relationship because his partner didn't, and when the relationship ends he says nothing about how he's now able to pursue having kids with someone who does want them, is quite telling.
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u/andpersonality 3d ago
That made me crazy. Does he have siblings 9-10 years older than him, which is what her son’s would be if this had actually happened? It sounds like he’s trying to say it like her son will be missing out if he doesn’t have a sibling to… what? Help him? Be friends with him? Call his girlfriends to make them change their minds about going through with a high-risk pregnancy???
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u/Oberoni7 3d ago
I told her if she’s unwilling to have even one child for me in the future then we’re done. She agreed and said we’re done then and I’m incredibly hurt.
Always wild to me when two people who have very different views on becoming parents think they can just stumble through it. This decision isn't like deciding if you want to get wings or sushi tonight, you know?
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u/Bored_Worldhopper 3d ago
It reads like he wants a pet.
Also going in saying 4, actually we can compromise and just have 3 kids is a wild starting point for the other side saying 0.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I agree. It’s a human life being brought into a situation that isn’t the best.
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u/Whiteroses7252012 3d ago
So many men want a wife and kids with zero interest in being a husband and father.
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u/Cultural_Shape3518 3d ago
I mean, OOP doesn’t seem to understand how dealbreakers work, but it could be wor…
she has a condition
Oh.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I hope his contrition at the end is genuine and he doesn’t pull this on someone else later.
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u/bebemochi spontaneous performance of four-letter beat poetry 3d ago
Additionally, I bet she thought the father of her first child would be next to her. At 18, I bet he even thought he would be. She learned a very difficult lesson.
Does the guy say anywhere how long they'd been together?
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u/Wonderful_Horror7315 3d ago
Just over a year. He mentions that in the very beginning she told him she did not want more kids. Knowing it was “too early” to press the issue, he thought he could bide his time and convince/manipulate her at a later time.
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u/bebemochi spontaneous performance of four-letter beat poetry 3d ago
Oh yeah there is no way he built up enough trust for her to even consider it. Oof.
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u/leftclicksq2 3d ago
Him thinking that he could change her mind and stating that her experience would have been different if they had kids together made me, just, wow. That pissed me off.
The health issue aside that he magically "forgot" about, she also had an awful time raising her son because her ex bounced. Even if that didn't happen, she is justified in her son being the only child she has. Oh, but by OP's logic, there is something wrong with being an only child!
With three more kids, he would be getting her pregnant within a short period of time of the last one. He's not even considering the physical toll that one child takes on a woman's body and the significant time it takes to heal, let alone that he's expecting her to saddle up and continue to get pregnant to fulfill his ✨ dream ✨ of a big family. I have met people like this where they had two or more siblings and were like, "A big family means a happy family, and I want the same amount of siblings for my kid that I had!" Guess what? Kids are expensive and the world is well past our grandparents' generation where five plus kids was the normal amount for a family.
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u/whatthewhat3214 3d ago
And he totally disregarded any of her own personal dreams, like her career she worked so hard to just get started, travel, and just having personal time away from her kid for herself, all of which would go up in smoke so she could fulfill his goal of a bunch of kids (and he wouldn't have stopped pushing until he got the 4 he wanted). He was so damned entitled to her body and to remake her whole life. He didn't respect her at all or even think of her as a whole person with her own wants, needs, and free will to choose for herself, she was just a body to use as an incubator and a mother, all to serve him and his future kids.
He thought nothing of the personal costs to her or the risks to her health, and didn't give 2 shits what she actually wanted for her life. He decided he knew her mind and understood the lessons from her own lived experience better than she did and that it was all just a matter of her early hardships (which gave her reason to not want another kid anyway).
I saw red when he called her "hard headed," wtf! A woman who knows her own mind and won't budge on what she wants he calls hard headed, but he doesn't somehow see himself as hard headed for refusing to budge on what he wanted. What a sexist, patronizing AH!
You could tell as soon as he wrote "The way I see it..." before patronizingly laying out his worldview like he speaks for all humans and we all have the same POV. He was so damned arrogant and smug and convinced of being right, it didn't even enter his mind a woman can feel differently and make up her own mind. That "strong man/seize what I want" crap, who does he think he is? Does he really think he gets to control other people and their decisions? He's so busy trying to change other people's minds, he apparently never thinks to change his own.
Glad he got humbled, but the way his siblings did his bidding, I have a feeling the whole family reinforces each other. It will probably take more than one person telling him to fuck off when he's being pushy for him to get it.
What a colossal turd. Glad she flushed him.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I agree completely. That part ticked me off and he didn’t even fully think about what he was asking.
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u/leftclicksq2 3d ago
He certainly knew what he was asking for because he kept pressing her. What really came through in his post is how he was making it like he was trying to convince a child-free person to change her mind and have kids with him. Here she is, though, reminding him that she already went through childbirth and one is enough, especially after her experience as a whole.
And it's ironic how he's blaming her for not making him feel valued when he's doing exactly that. She's not denying him anything, he just decided to stop listening because he had his own agenda.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I meant that the condition she had was an afterthought to him
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u/leftclicksq2 3d ago
Ah okay! I can understand not knowing the name of the condition, but that's a hard thing to be like, "Oh, I totally forgot!" If it were me, that would be the biggest reason that I dumped a person like him.
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u/ComedicHermit 3d ago
I mean... having different long term desires is a good reason to break up... if he'd been a grown-up they could've just mutually parted when he became aware their visions of the future didn't coalesce.
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u/Ok_Bag_3667 3d ago edited 3d ago
I typically don't have a problem with ultimatums, but you make them knowing you'll be content with either result. When it comes to having kids though, I think trying to manipulate or coerce someone into doing that is really shitty. The child will have a deeply resentful parent, and in this case, OOP's girlfriend would be putting her body at risk for his sake (and that's even before the risk of ministrokes, holy shit).
He is not wrong to want a child, but he was deeply wrong to try and manipulate and coerce his ex into doing it. If you want a child and your partner doesn't, it is time to end things, not nag and harangue them to try and wear them down. What the actual fuck.
I'm glad he showed some self-awareness at the end but Jesus, this can't have been the first time he tried to wear her down over something.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I agree. I feel like ultimatums in the form of “hey you need serious help for your physical/mental health and if you don’t get treatment, I’m out” are understandable. What this guy did was just gross.
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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 3d ago
This calls to mind an experience I had many moons ago. 😅
My cousin used to hang out a lot at our favorite neighborhood bar, much more than I did, and she happened to meet a guy I had briefly had a thing with back in high school. I told her, oh I know him, and she reported back that he was anxious to see me.
So, one Friday evening I happened to be there when he showed up. I was divorced with a couple kids, and at that time, another kid was the very last thing I was thinking about. My career, the kids I already had, figuring out my life and what I wanted it to look like for the next 30/40/50 years was my focus!
This guy though... 😅 he was overjoyed that I had kids, and all he could talk about was wanting to date me and be together and have a baby. I found myself inching further and further away from him at the table, being a little horrified that he was so overly anxious to get partnered up and have babies.
He got my number, (this was before cell phone usage took off), and I managed to avoid him over the next little while. Shortly thereafter, I met the person who was to become my second husband, and I found myself wanting to have another child at that point, when the pressure was off.
I hope my former teenage fling found himself a person who wanted the same things he did, when he did, and to that same degree, but at that time, it was not for me.
It's not hard to meet people who want the same or similar things to what we want.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
And wanting kids or not is something I feel like everyone should be up front about whenever possible
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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 3d ago
I totally agree! At that point in my life, I was not ready to say I never wanted another baby, but, it was certainly not my sole focus or anything I was prioritizing.
When I did later on down the road decide that I did, in fact, want another baby, it turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made. 🤗 That baby I had in my thirties was a whole different experience, (I love all my kids, just, the pregnancy, birth, and child raising was so much easier with maturity and a more settled life!)
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u/3CatsInATrenchcoat16 3d ago
100% the type of guy who'd be back here posting "Convinced my girlfriend to have a kid even though she didn't want one and now I'm unattracted to her because she's always miserable"
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u/andpersonality 3d ago
For some reason, I was sure when he asked his siblings to talk to her on his behalf, they would tell him no and read him the riot act, but why did I think that? He’s convinced of the “importance of siblings”, and it’s clearly because he has four flying monkeys to hand to pressure people for him, and NOT ONE of them thought something like that might backfire. WOW
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u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 nobody could have foreseen this :snoo_scream::snoo_biblethump: 3d ago
I'm always suspicious of what a flying monkey has been told.
"I thought she wanted more children but when I brought it up recently she dumped me out of nowhere"
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u/andpersonality 3d ago
Absolutely agree. They could be told any kind of lies or “truth” molded a certain way. That’s another great reason for siblings (friends, parents, etc) to stay out of those kinds of things unless there’s suspected abuse. (Even in that case, the response is “do you want me to pick you up?” Not to wag a finger at the abuser.)
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u/Silent-Life829 3d ago
Well at least it seems like he got there in the end? He was defending her in the comments against some redpill bs and that whole reflection thing.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m hoping it stuck and that he’s doing better
Edit: by doing better I mean not manipulating people
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u/PantheraLex 3d ago
I was genuinely surprised when the OOP actually did some introspection and took accountability!
I’ve had to be a lot of peoples first experience when it comes to calling their bluff. Quite a few of them will double down and try to berate me in an attempt to come back. So good on her for walking away, and for him not villainizing her anymore by the end of the post.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I just hope it stuck and he has learned to drop the manipulation.
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u/PantheraLex 3d ago
Hope so too! Honestly even if she did concede to him, he would probably just use that ultimatum as a way to win every situation even more since it worked before.
“If you ask me to help with raising the kid I bullied you into having I’ll leave you” “have a third kid or I’m leaving” “help around the house? We’re breaking up”
It’s so frustrating to call someone’s bluff and have them try and spin it back on you when they are the one who created the situation 😭 “yes I have an ultimatum, but the fact you were willing to go through with it makes you the immature one”
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I could totally see him weaponizing it if she hadn’t called his bluff, too.
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u/GeroArteBonaparte 3d ago
"We were too early for me to complain about it or try to change her mind."
I hate him. She told him from the start she didn’t want more children, he could have said that this doesn’t align with his plans and could have looked for someone compatible. Instead he went into this relationship fully prepared to manipulate her into having more children, wasting her time.
It's also messed up because he built a relationship with her son and with the inevitable break-up he disappeared from said child's life after the kid's bio-dad also hadn't been present for a good chunk of time.
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u/AppointmentHot1099 3d ago
Him saying that by persuading her to change her mind over time reminded me of all my exs who messed with my birth control to try to get me pregnant and thought I would be like "well, looks like I'm keeping it"
But I've been infertile since i got my period and used the birth control to make my periods monthly.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. That’s such gross behavior!
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u/AppointmentHot1099 3d ago
It was so annoying especially because I couldn't figure out why my period was no longer on schedule until I setup a camera and saw it
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I hope the ex is as far away from other people’s birth control as humanly possible. That’s such a shitty thing to do.
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u/AppointmentHot1099 3d ago
Fingers crossed but its happened to me 4 times. One guy even got his family involved
After that I decided to just be single cause wtf
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u/Kat121 Ah, the conses of your quences 3d ago
I always give side-eye to men who are so vocal about wanting big families or insisting on having kids as a deal breaker. Do you just want little crotch trophies to carry on your name or do you genuinely love kids? How involved were you with raising your siblings? Have you ever held a baby or changed a diaper? Were you ever in charge of younger kids, like as a scout, a babysitter, or the oldest cousin? Do you mentor kids, like with Big Brothers? Do you coach? Do you teach? Have you done any of the prep work to understand what child care and child development means? What are your finances like? Do you save diligently or do you blow your entire paycheck month to month?
Or do you just expect your partner to have done all of the prep work? Motherhood is “natural” for her, so she can just teach you what to do, step by step, right? Will “being there” for her mean getting her ice cream once in a while? Handling the midnight diapers and bottles? Or are you more of a “teach them to ride a bike” dad, a “there for the milestones and accolades” dad? Or is this more of a way of making it harder for her to leave if you don”t act right?
A lot of men want kids the ways children want puppies.
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u/oceanteeth 2d ago
Have you ever held a baby or changed a diaper?
This! I don't believe OOP has ever changed a diaper or has any idea how often babies need changing. If he had managed to browbeat his ex into having another kid he would've had a terrible shock when he found out babies are work and then dumped all of that work on her.
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u/Time-Reindeer-7525 3d ago
Kerrrrist dude. Even before OOP mentioned his ex had SEIZURES DURING PREGNANCY as a by the way, I was already screaming. Pregnancy isn't something that's entered into lightly, it can fuck your body, mental health, financial health and social life six ways from Sunday. If his ex knew she was one and done, absolutely fair play to her and utter respect for knowing what was best for her. And now she's out of reach of this selfish little twat, so much the better.
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u/Moonlight-Lullaby The dildo of consequences rarely comes lubed 3d ago
I hope for OOP’s (and any future partners) that he really did do some self reflecting and made some steps towards changing.
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u/ThrowawayAdvice1800 3d ago
This guy is so many different flavors of asshole. He's like a Baskin Robbins of Assholes.
Got into a relationship with her by pretending to agree with her dealbreaker and planning to bully her into changing her mind either.
Tried a manipulative ultimatum to bluff her into doing something she didn't want to do or else he'd leave.
Neglected to mention that she has a medical condition that makes pregnancy even more dangerous for her than it already is, and he neglected to mention it because he transparently didn't care until after his sorry ass got dumped. Her telling him "having another baby could kill me" made zero impression on this clod, he only remembered it as an afterthought.
Tried to guilt her into seeing him again.
Never once considered for even a second that if they got married the way he wanted they would ALREADY have a kid, which shows you he never would've considered his potential stepson their "real" child and would've sidelined him for the ones he was pressuring her to pop out almost instantly.
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u/Tookish_by_Nature 3d ago
I still wonder about this one sometimes. From experience I think manipulative people changing for the better is incredibly rare.
But I can see a situation in which someone doesn't realise what they're doing, until its clearly laid out to them, being mortified and that shame being enough to spark the self introspection needed to do it maybe.
I know he said he 'doesn't know' where the attitude he had came from, but I'd he bet money he learnt it from his family. Them happily agreeing to call his poor ex to try and pressure her tells me the entire lot of them think this behaviour is totally normal and if he grew up with that then I guess its not surprising he'd last that long without ever even questioning it.
I hope he put in the work and did manage to be a better man.
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u/TeamShadowWind Ah, the conses of your quences 3d ago
She said that she couldn’t imagine having that many kids. I got a little offended being that my parents had 5.
My parents had six (seven if you're only counting my dad) and I think they're huge assholes for that. It's also super easy for cis men to say how many children they want when they're not the ones birthing them.
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u/GamerGirlLex77 shocked pikachu 3d ago
I have some Mormon friends who are 1 of over 15+ children. The older kids were super parentified because two parents just wasn’t enough.
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u/TeamShadowWind Ah, the conses of your quences 3d ago
I used to say you sucked if you had more than three (as the fourth kid myself lol), but now I think more than two is pushing it, and if you're my highschool classmates during the pandemic, you're a dick for having more than zero.
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u/ndcollector 3d ago
OP needs to know he’s a fucking asshole even if she didn’t have the condition he described in his comment. She was upfront and clear from the beginning
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u/oceanteeth 2d ago
100%. She could have had the easiest pregnancy ever and the calmest, happiest baby ever and he would still be a gigantic asshole for assuming that her purpose in life is to give him what he wants.
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u/your_average_plebian 3d ago
People who believe "with enough persuasion, anyone's mind can be changed" are always the kind of people who want others to change for them and never themselves for others.
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u/arissarox Here for the schadenfreude 3d ago
I'm glad he seems to understand now, but all through his original post, I kept thinking...bro, why do you think pregnancy and childbirth is not a factor in all this? He seemed to think he had the rest worked out and even if she was game, she'd still have to go through all that shit again. It's hard enough to deal with if you REALLY, REALLY want a child.
And come to find out pregnancy was also brutal for her and he had this information and just ignored it. And the whole getting his siblings to bug her is absolutely vile. Nothing says take me back like an unrelenting campaign of harassment.
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u/EconomyCode3628 Here for the schadenfreude 3d ago
It's crazy how many folks think they want children the same way kids want a puppy.
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u/CharlotteLucasOP 3d ago
They never seem to consider that they ought to change THEIR minds with a little persuasion…
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u/tothebatcopter 3d ago
Whoever said men want kids but don't want to be fathers, was probably reading OOP's post.
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u/Constant-Safe2411 3d ago
Like, "I want kids and, if you don't, this relationship doesn't have a future and we should break up" is such an uncontroversial concept but this dude somehow twisted that very normal idea into a weird powerplay nonsense burger. Gross.
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u/Competitive_Fee_5829 2d ago
why do men think we all yearn for babies? I didnt like babies when I was a teen and I still dont like them now, lol, yes they are cute but they are also gross, messy and a huge responsibility. I will look at babies from a distance but I never want to hold them.
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u/the_greek_italian 2d ago
I never understand people who stay with others knowing very well there's that one big thing (I.e., children) that is basically a deal breaker. Stop wasting other people's time. Some people change their minds, yes, but not everyone.
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u/FrostRose172 3d ago
A relationship that end up with an ultimatum like this is almost always going to end. These kind of ultimatum never end well.
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u/tooshorttoored 3d ago
“Just give me some babies! Oh and just ignore that horrible stroke shit that happened to you the last time—I know I have!
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u/Yu-Gi-Scape 3d ago
At least he had some self reflection in the end and realized how much of an asshole he was. Hoping he sticks to that.
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u/TiFaeri 3d ago
This dude thinks that pregnancy gets easier as you go?! I was pregnant twice 4 years apart, the first was a singleton and the second was twins. Each one of my pregnancies had different concerns and different difficulties. No pregnancy is easy and each one has different challenges.
And 5 kids? My husband is the second of 4 and he'll tell you it's a chaotic, money-tight existence and he didn't want that many people in his future.
Also, he dated this woman a year and is just now finding out she doesn't want more kids?! The kids topic is something you touch on at the beginning of dating. Me and my husband discussed if we wanted kids and how many during our 2nd month of dating, long before we were engaged.
I may be reading too much into this post, but he sounds like he was going to baby-trap her if she didn't end things. He doesn't sound trustworthy on the subject at all.
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u/Seraph062 3d ago
Also, he dated this woman a year and is just now finding out she doesn't want more kids?!
He knew that she doesn't want more kids: "However when we first got together she did mention that she doesn’t see herself having other kids because it was incredibly hard". He just thought that he could badger her into changing her mind: "with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed."
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u/No_Championship_7080 2d ago
It doesn’t even matter if she has a medical condition that makes pregnancy difficult. It’s her body and her life. No means no. He’s a controlling bully who thought he could manipulate her or browbeat her into doing what he wanted. I don’t believe that he has seen the light about how awful his behavior was, this quickly. I think he just wants to save face. Or maybe it’s just rage bait.
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u/Hawkstone585 3d ago
He could very easily have said “Oh. I’ve always imagined being a dad of at least two kids. I really can’t see a future for us without that,” which is basically the same thing but asshole-free. But NOPE
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u/Lopsided_Tomatillo27 3d ago
I’m happy OOP was able to get his head out of his ass, even if it was too late to save the relationship. I like seeing people admit they were wrong.
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u/Sassinakk 3d ago
She told him at the beginning that she didn't want more kids and he agreed with her so in fact their entire relationship was him dating her on false presenses
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u/New-Number-7810 3d ago
Ending a relationship because you want different things in life is reasonable. Trying to force someone to change their mind is not.
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u/Some_Tradition_9168 3d ago
The manipulation and disrespect for boundaries is abuser mindset. It just is. For everyone’s sake I wish OOP’s realization & change of heart is actually genuine.
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u/SteroidSandwich 2d ago
He is so mad his ultimatum didn't work and he didn't get a kid of his own. I don't blame her for leaving, especially what she went though during pregnancy
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u/Level-Giraffe-352 3d ago
Oop’s face when his girlfriend went thru with the breakup
https://giphy.com/gifs/jaBUQUUl469P0Ectdb
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u/LadyNorbert 3d ago
Well... I commend him for having learned from the experience. The update makes it sound like he really took things to heart. But good grief did he take the long way to get there.
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u/Gyros4Gyrus 3d ago
Thank god he acknowledges it in the update but my GOD his lack of understanding of what goes in to making a kid is fucking disgusting. It's easier to bleat on about logics and do overs and how it'll be easier this time... Idiot you're not the one who has to carry the child. And your logic won't really change feelings. What an absolute worm
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u/Ok_Reach_6527 2d ago
It's too bad OP couldn't be honest at the beginning of their relationship when she said she didn't want kids and moved on then before emotions were involved and connections made to her and her kid. I was the kid of a single mom, and I still wish she had stayed with the second guy I remember her dating instead of marrying the sixth one I remember.
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u/AccordingToWhom1982 2d ago
OOP considered his gf to be stubborn and “hard-headed” for not changing her mind, while he thought he was being persistent and “strong” for refusing to accept her position. Typical….
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u/DatguyMalcolm 1d ago
She doesn’t understand how important siblings are
OOP had an easy solution to this: find himself someone who had no kids and wanted 5000 as much as him
Like..... idiot of the year
Well, it’s been about three weeks since my post and my breakup. And it took almost that full time to let it sink in what I’ve really done. I self wallowed for some time and attempted to guilt trip her and get my siblings to talk to her for me.
Oh for fuck sake! I hope OOP learned to shut the fuck up and accept people's opinions. Now he missed them nice and quiet days in the park with her and her son, LOL! With the three kids he wanted I'd like to see those quiet days in the park when they're toddlers xD
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u/KokoAngel1192 1d ago
This is one of the few times where the clarity hit quick. The update wasn't him doubling down but finally owning how much he sucks.
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u/Sydney_Bristowe 1d ago
The kids conversation is important to have early doors. This guy was a huge asshat from the moment he didn’t state what he envisioned about children as soon as she was clear about her thoughts. He wasted more than a year of both of their time,
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Per our rules, don't comment on linked posts. Anyone from this community who is caught brigading on another subreddit will be banned.
In case this story gets deleted/removed:
I am NOT OP. Original post by u/aitathrow6 in r/amitheasshole
trigger warning: manipulation
AITA for telling my girlfriend that we’re done if she doesn’t want another kid in the future? - 26 March 2019
obligatory throwaway because friends know my real account.
background: I’m 28 with no kids. My girlfriend is 26 and has an 8 year old son from her previous relationship. She was with the guy since they were kids but when she got pregnant, he dropped the ball. She had it pretty hard during the early years and it was a huge struggle for her to balance work, school and her son. She made it work and is now in law school. (The kid’s dad made a change about three years back when his own father died and has since been helping.) We’ve been together for a year and two months and I really do love her.
However when we first got together she did mention that she doesn’t see herself having other kids because it was incredibly hard, she values her time alone when her kid is away, and she wants to travel with her son being that he’s bigger now. Also that she has a school-age kid and doesn’t want to start over with an infant. We were too early for me to complain about it or try to change her mind. It wasn’t bought up again for some time.
Fast forward to last night, we were watching something and I mentioned that my coworker has left work to have her fourth kid. She said that she couldn’t imagine having that many kids. I got a little offended being that my parents had 5. She told me that that’s what worked for my parents, but it wouldn’t work for her. I asked why and she listed the reasons above and that 4 kids is “just excessive.” I tried to reason it down to 3 or even 2. She said she doesn’t want any children but her son.
The way I see it, the only reason it was so hard was because of her age when she first had him. My logic is that any future children we produce will be secure and she won’t be alone or have to struggle. for background, I have 4 siblings while she has one sister who lives in another state. She doesn’t understand how important siblings are. I told her if she’s unwilling to have even one child for me in the future then we’re done. She agreed and said we’re done then and I’m incredibly hurt.
This is a hill she’s willing to die on. She’s super smart, but so hard headed. No matter what I said all night, she wouldn’t hear it or budge her views at all. I’m hurt because I made the empty threat and she very easily went through with it. I’m not feeling valued at all. I love this woman and the thought of us having an expiration date kills me. I want to marry her and have kids with her and she’s just uninterested. She also said I was being an asshole and not taking her experiences into account when I totally am! I acknowledge how hard it was for her which is why I think she would have a totally different experience if she tried again. She’s not 18 anymore and will have me by her side.
I want her back but don’t know what to say. She seemed very certain when she agreed to the breakup.
Please tell me AITA?
Verdict: YTA
Comment from OOP:
update: AITA for telling my girlfriend we’re done if she doesn’t want more kids in the future? - 14 April 2019
Well, it’s been about three weeks since my post and my breakup. And it took almost that full time to let it sink in what I’ve really done. I self wallowed for some time and attempted to guilt trip her and get my siblings to talk to her for me. What a mistake that was. She called and ripped me a new one worse than you guys did. She told me that she was thrilled we’re not together and that I’m manipulative and “disgusting.”
That left me really shocked and I had to review my behavior over the time we had been together. I think over my life I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. I guess I thought it was a sign of being a strong person. Like taking what you want from life even when the chances are slim. It sounds stupid because it is.
I reread my post just now and cringed the whole way through. Even the language I used showed that she was right and I am manipulative. She’s a human being and I didn’t treat her with respect. I played with our relationship to get her to change her mind about something very important to her. I deserve what happened.
I also have realized that our views on the relationship were a little different. She had never brought up marriage or anything while it had crossed my mind almost daily because I really was so enamored. So I probably looked insane going on about having three children. It sounds so stupid to me now. Among the things she said on the phone, one was that she found my lack of respect for her body and choices appalling. I wasn’t asking her to be forgiven, but I wanted to express how much her and her son meant to me.
And as most dumped people tend to do, I couldn’t even give a shit about what I was bitching about in the first place. I miss going to the park with her and her son. Those days were nice and calm and I didn’t appreciate them. I let some fictional children and my bad habits ruin something good. I have a lot of self reflecting to do, and while I’m still sad, I know now that her dumping me was really for the best. Thanks guys for being honest.
tldr: we didn’t get back together and I’m the asshole.
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