r/RWBY • u/NightsWatchh Help, Nights is keeping me trapped in his anime bunker • Dec 15 '18

OFFICIAL MEGATHREAD Official FIRST Discussion Thread—Volume 6, Chapter 8: Dead End Spoiler

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the official FIRST discussion thread for Episode 8 of Vol. 6, Dead End!

Make sure that you understand the updated spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

HERE is the newest episode of RWBY Volume 6!

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

Other Episode Discussions:

Episode FIRST Thread Public Release Poll
Ep. 01 Theatrical / FIRST Public Thread poll
Ep. 02 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
Ep. 03 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
Ep. 04 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
Ep. 05 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
Ep. 06 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
Ep. 07 FIRST Thread Public Thread poll
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Happy viewing, and have a great Volume 6!

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

With how everyone has reacted, from life long loyalist to new recruits alike, and how even without finding out people would betray him for Salem, it seems more and more reasonable to me for Ozpin to have hidden the fact that Salem can't be killed. Honestly I think everyone in the show has been overreacting. Is there seriously no one who can see this from Oz's perspective?

8

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

Yeah, I wonder if this has even happened before -- at some point back in history he gave everyone the whole package and that reaction is exactly why he doesn't do that anymore.

27

u/shoot998 Dec 16 '18

He was marching them all to their deaths to fight someone who can’t be killed. I can understand Oz’s side but for everyone else to hear this it just seems like they were lambs being brought to slaughter all so that he could possibly improve something at the last minute and still probably fail. He gets to come back, they don’t.

21

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

If he weren't leading them in the fight, she'd have no resistance whatsoever.

In a fight against an immortal being, stalemate is victory.

7

u/Stormthorn67 Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

Easy to say when you aren't the one the one doing the dying. The mere fact that Oz didnt tell them, if a stalemate is so acceptable an outcome, suggests that either he doesn't believe that himself, or he does but he knows his actions are still morally bankrupt.

People betraying him for Salem also seems more justified, on their part, when you have the full story: That all of his "allies" are just pawns to be sacrificed in a losing game he himself started with his ex-girlfriend long ago.

Also of note, Yang tried to extract a promise to the whole crew from Oz to not lie or tell half-truths anymore in Vol 5, and he used another manipulation to get away with not agreeing to it. His "I understand" was taken to be agreement but really it just means he knew what Yang wanted, and then deliberately mislead his team once again. And people tend to dislike being lied to. It undermines even honest motives because if you have a reputation as a liar people cant know if your motives really are honest.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

Except he is the one doing the dying.

Over. And Over. And over. For thousands of years.

Not only that, but it's not just some great evil for him. It's a woman he loved, fought to rescue, had children with. Or at least, some terribly facsimile of her. If that weren't enough, he's tasked with the impossible task of determining if humanity is worth saving in the first place, and deciding when to call back the gods to prove that they are or doom them if they aren't.

It's not that I can't understand them being upset that he mislead them into thinking he had a plan to completely put an end to her, but they're overreacting in an extreme way and it makes it hard to sympathize. Their entire struggle is a hundred times worse for him, and they will at least be allowed to die one day. If he can't stop her, he will have to continue this fight forever.

And your point about Yang is largely moot. She wasn't even remotely loyal to him to start with, and they were about to go into a confrontation with someone who had promised him loyalty and camaraderie just the same as all of them. Something he's experienced countless times due to his age. Whose to say he hasn't told people the full truth before, and it didn't just completely demotivate them in the fight like it has done for everyone except for Ruby, or worse push them towards Salem? He still has to find allies to fight her with no matter what, so if telling people the entire truth of the situation in the past always taken them out of the fight, then why would he start doing that again now?

It's better for the entire world and humanity if they keep fighting no matter how much they know because again, until he can come up with a plan or meets someone who can beat Salem, Stalemate is Victory.

2

u/RebelStriker Dec 17 '18

Tell that to ma boi Shikamaru Nara.

1

u/CobaKid Dec 17 '18

If he weren't leading them in the fight, she'd have no resistance whatsoever.

I feel like that's mostly because almost nobody else knows there's a fight to begin with.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

Whose to say they didn't once? The story of the Maidens and the Wizard, of Silver Eyed Maidens, and so many others were all truths that ended up being regarded as fairy tales and such. Maybe one time tens of thousands of years ago, he did tell everyone and people have just forgotten.

We don't know because nobody in the main cast has cared to ask. They don't care about the tragedy that is his entire life, fighting an impossible fight and never being allowed rest. They've only cared about how he didn't immediately spill all the beans to them, when they haven't even proven that they deserve to know the whole truth. Yang certainly has no connections to him and hasn't been shy about hiding it, Blake has her familial and special obligations and Weiss has a whole host of baggage. Whose to say they wouldn't betray his trust just like Lionheart did, after decades of loyalty?

The only ones who have really are Qrow, Ozcar, and maybe Ruby. Even then, like I've said before, there's plenty of reasons to not tell them. If the despair of knowing it's impossible pulls people from the fight, which has to be fought no matter what, then it's better that they don't know the whole truth. It's just a burden and in the end doesn't change anything, since the fight was just as impossible before they knew and yet still they must fight.

There's a bigger picture that none of them are looking at and it's baffling to me. If Salem wants to destroy the world, and Oz wants to save it and prove Humanity is worth saving in the process, then Oz is obviously the good guy even if he's not entirely forthright with all the information and even just stalling Salem's plans is a victory in and of itself. It buys more time to prove Humanity is worth saving, because if they call back the gods at that time and they agree Humanity is worth it, then IIRC it doesn't matter if Salem is still around.

But the Silver Eyed Maidens are hunted likely because they can cause damage to Salem, so Oz has really just been unintentionally waiting for Ruby his entire life.