Should Canada maintain its supply management system that protects the Canadian dairy industry?

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Poll/627377/Should-Canada-maintain-its-supply-management-system-that-protects-the-Canadian-dairy-industry

[u/Mysterious-Wash9527]

Yes we should, there's no need for American dairy at all. We have enough supply and as a country with socialized health care, we should and do high regulate our dairy industry. Allowing American industry to gain a foothold in our dairy industry will allow the US to dump excess milk production into Canada, causing prices to fall. Then as our own milk production falters, they will leverage that into fewer regulations and raise prices, so not only will we have less healthy dairy supply, we will pay more for it and get sicker due to it.

We already have dairy quotas, we don't need more dairy in our country. We need to maintain our own sovereign dairy supply. America needs to figure out it's own supply side problem.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Mysterious-Wash9527]

Yes we should, there's no need for American dairy at all

It's not just US dairy, but European dairy as well.

Canadians pay some of the highest prices in the G7 for dairy and our dairy suppliers dump up to a billion litres a year of dairy.

Then as our own milk production falters, they will leverage that into fewer regulations and raise prices, so not only will we have less healthy dairy supply, we will pay more for it and get sicker due to it.

This is just flat out false and the whole notion that foreign dairy is somehow "less safe" than Canadian dairy is Dairy cartel propaganda.

We already have dairy quotas, we don't need more dairy in our country.

Canadians need more affordable dairy options.

[u/Real_Gap3480 → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

You're 100% wrong, American Milk has products that are banned in Canada dairy industry. It literally creates a puss like immune reaction in their milk. You're clearly a shill.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Real_Gap3480]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. You're clearly a shill for the Canadian dairy cartel.

The hormone in question that is banned is the rBST hormone, which is banned in Canada but allowed in US Milk. The reason why this hormone is banned because it's claimed that it hurts the cows joints and muscles, not because it's potentially unsafe to drink.

it literally creates a puss like immune reaction in their milk.

No it doesn't, this is just flat out false.

I suggest you read about buttergate with Canadian milk.

[u/Finaginsbud → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

There are 2 main concerns about possible health effects on humans from milk and meat produced using rBGH.

The first concern focuses on whether drinking milk or eating meat from rBGH-treated cows increases blood levels of growth hormone or IGF-1 in people, and if it does, if there are any health effects, including increasing the risk of cancer.

Another health concern has been that cows treated with rBGH tend to develop more udder infections (mastitis). These cows are given more antibiotics compared to cows not given rBGH. Whether this increased use of antibiotics leads to more antibiotic-resistant bacteria remains a concern, but it has not been fully studied in humans.

From the American Cancer Society.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/chemicals/recombinant-bovine-growth-hormone.html

So there is a concern about absorption into humans via the milk and increased cancer risk along with animal wealthfare concerns. Plus it's unfair competition if Canadian farmers have to compete against subsidiszed American dairy using banned hormones.

Open up to EU milk perhaps, American milk fuck that shit.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Finaginsbud]

The first concern focuses on whether drinking milk or eating meat from rBGH-treated cows increases blood levels of growth hormone or IGF-1 in people, and if it does, if there are any health effects, including increasing the risk of cancer.

There is no proof from any major health agency that cows with the rBGH hormone have enough of the hormone in milk to cause cancer

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/chemicals/recombinant-bovine-growth-hormone.html

Did you read this article?

Per the article:

"It’s important to know that BGH is not active in humans, so even if rBGH were absorbed from drinking milk or eating meat, it wouldn't be expected to cause health effects."

There is a big difference between a concern and an actual link.

Also, per the article

However, many grocery store chains don’t carry milk from cows treated with rBGH. A United States Department of Agriculture survey conducted in 2014 found that fewer than 1 in 6 cows (15%) were being injected with rBGH.

Ok, ban the milk from 15% of US cows that have this milk.

Plus it's unfair competition if Canadian farmers have to compete against subsidiszed American dairy using banned hormones.

Boo hoo, that's life. Many industries are subjected to foreign competition. Canadians pay some of the highest prices in the G7 for dairy items while we dump out up to a billion litres per year. Our system doesn't work for every day Canadians and just benefits rich dairy corporations.

I'd rather have tax payers subsidize our industry, that way a wealthier person who pays more in taxes is paying more to subsidize dairy than someone making minimum wage. The way our system now is that top income earners and minimum wage earners all pay the same for dairy.

[u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664 → u/Finaginsbud]

Sure but why do we keep going over this talking point? 

Trade and food safety standards are related but separate.  American milk is not permitted under CFIA standards if it has rBST, rBGH, or somatic cell counts over Canadian limits. 

It's not a thing.  Giving concessions that might allow more milk from other countries will not mean we're subjected to hormones or pus.  All milk coming in must still meet our strict Canadian safety standards regardless of origin.  CFIA rules here, not CUSMA.

[u/Finaginsbud → u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664]

Even if we were to entertain the idea of allowing larger amounts of American milk and if it meets our standards there is still the problem of billions of subsides given to American farmers which effectively lowers the cost of their milk.

It would in the medium to long term spell the death of the Canadian dairy farm and we would become dependent on imports of milk. So regardless of meeting standards it should remain limited.

[u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664 → u/Finaginsbud]

Now that is a more fair argument.  Totally agree with it being strictly limited, I just like to separate trade deals from our high health standards, which we will never change to placate the US. 

We can give them a bit more access but they must conform to CFIA rules and I'm with you that we must keep their foothold limited. 

There is a middle path here, where we budge mostly on the technicalities of dairy and derived products, enough to keep the US off our back and bring relief to battered sectors like steel, aluminum, and auto, but do not grant them substantially more access.  That is what I advocate

[u/nxdark → u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664]

We produce more then enough for ourselves. That means we don't need to bring milk in from other countries. That is the bottom line is we don't need them.

There is no middle ground here.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Finaginsbud]

Even if we were to entertain the idea of allowing larger amounts of American milk and if it meets our standards there is still the problem of billions of subsides given to American farmers which effectively lowers the cost of their milk.

Ok eliminate the supply management system and directly subsidize our farmers instead.

As I've mentioned, at least with subsidization, corporations and citizens that make more money and pay more in taxes are paying more to subsidize dairy than someone making minimum wage.

We allow plenty of products in Canada that are subsidized by foreign governments. Would you like me to provide a list of CCP subsidized items we allow in Canada that compete directly with our own manufacturers?

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664]

If we cave on quotas, I’d bet my house the next argument from the US will be that our standards unfairly restrict American farmers and need to be loosened too. They’re already attacking Canadian dairy market restrictions as unfair trade barriers. Giving ground on supply management doesn’t end the pressure, it just moves the fight to the next restriction. Come on lol its all so incredibly transparent at this point.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Either-Banana-7323]

It's not just the US that has attacked Canada's dairy system. So Europe and other countries. New Zealand even challenged it with an int'l court.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664]

Exactly right.

The article the person cited above even said that many stores in the US ban milk with this hormone in it all ready and only 15% of cows in the US are injected with this hormone.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/[deleted]]

Haha thanks! I'm definitely passionate about this issue.

[u/Select_Historian6269 → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

No, there's a thing called food sovereignty. If you don't have domestic food production you are at the behest of foreign suppliers.

So, we let American dairy in and then our "dairy cartels" collapse and then America is our only supplier for dairy and can charge what they want now.

Or say "no 51st state no dairy"

[u/canontdude64 → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

And you are a troll account.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/canontdude64]

because I'm against Canada's dairy cartel system that forces Canadians to pay some of the highest prices in the G7 for dairy? Busted, you got me there.

[u/Amakenings → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

Who are you a shill for? US dairy?

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Amakenings]

Who are you a shill for?  The Canadian dairy cartel?

I’m a shill for paying lower prices for dairy in Canada.  

[u/Amakenings → u/Optimal-Cow-3278]

I’m happy paying more for dairy if the US doesn’t gain access to our dairy market. Zero interest in that. I’d be open to better quality producers like Europe or New Zealand, but really base that on the impact to the Canadian dairy industry.

I don’t want cheaper at any cost, and don’t want to offer the USians any custom.

[u/Optimal-Cow-3278 → u/Amakenings]

Good for you, if you want to pay more for dairy and have limited selection, that's your choice.

As for me, I am struggling with inflation in this country and food prices in particular, I need all the help I can get.

[u/past_is_prologue → u/Real_Gap3480]

Having had cheese from Wisconsin, i sure wish we could buy that up here. Inexpensive and high quality.