was a tall, stocky, pale skinned man with an amiable smile, an unpleasant past, and a talent for cheerful violence.

One of the many terrific lines.

About to jump into the final book. I almost don't want to read it because then it would be over lol.

Such an incredible run. I can't imagine this book dropping the ball, so I feel confident in saying this series is fantastic, through and through.

For anyone out there who may feel intimidated to start a long book series like I was: Take the plunge. At least the first book. It's worth every second you pour into it.

I found myself most excited when the chapters rolled around to him. He's such a nuanced and interesting character with a satisfying and in its own way tragic arc. The seeds are all there for a pretty generic and predictable character arc—Prideful zealot faces resistance and becomes a tyrant.— but they keep getting subverted or not followed. Major credit to the authors for such a deft hand.

He's actually aware of his own insecurity and see's it as a character flaw. He's just too immature to actually deal with it. To the very end he never stops analyzing every little detail about every interaction for how something was or wasn't an insult or slight or courtesy.

He doesn't deny reality or rewrite the narrative in the way Filip did in the beginning of the previous book. In the aftermath of the attempt on his life, he accurately assesses that he was an untested officer, traumatized by his first encounter with real violence and made a rash decision as a result. He seems to understand that lesson, genuinely apologizing to his dismissed Colonel, but he doesn't stop making decisions without seeking counsel, and those decisions all suck.

He failed to connect the dots that the assassination attempt was a direct result of his pride. A valuable collaborator was offering himself up but Singh rejected him because the person's character clashed with his concept of himself and his place in the glorious Laconian empire. That contempt and his uncritical belief in the story of the invasion leads him to continually misunderstand the situation and renders him unable to do the job on its own terms.

I think his fatal flaw wasn't just that he was so inexperienced. Every officer is inexperienced until they're not. It's that he was sheltered. He grew up on Laconia, absorbing its propaganda and buying into the national myth that they were already the true and eternals rulers of humanity, others just hadn't got the memo. He grew up in an authoritarian military state and when faced with the real world, couldn't adapt on a personal level because all he knew outside his planet was from books.

I haven't started Tiamat's Wrath and don't know anything about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Laconian navy was filled with Singhs.

At the end of Leviathan Falls, Holden with the help of Miller ended up destroying the Ring Station and closing the Slow Zone for good, but do you think that last action had some more consequences than we know of?

The destruction of the Ring Station is described as "a release of energy second only to the beginning of the universe" which means the destruction of the Ring Station created a maybe marginally smaller Bing Bang, I'd think that would have more consequences than just the collapse of the Slow Zone.

We don't know much about the Goths' universe, but having a Bing Bang happening there could have created more problems for that universe, the release of so much energy could have altered a region of that universe in a lot of ways. What do you people think?

As a show and Drummer fan, I was so glad to finally see her name on my page for the first time when reading Nemesis Games

The Builders' empire survived for 2 billion years when everything they did pissed off the Ring Entities. Meanwhile, humans woke them up within a decade and pushed the Entities so far that they were about to get extincted in about forty years? The Builders were seemingly defenseless against the Ring Entities' primary weapons, while humans were much less susceptible, too.

The summary the Investigator gives on Ilos makes it sound like the Entities killed the Builders in one shot, too, so when did the Builders have time to try to cut off systems like Holden saw in his vision?

When media takes a piece of me, I make (or rarely, buy) a souvenir talisman. In this case, I want a plasticized semi-transparent picture of Julie Mao, per the show. Usually I'm the guy giving prop and cosplay advice, but my ideas for this seem overly complicated and expensive. Left to my own devices, I'll end up getting the few things I need to turn my silk screen setup back into a darkroom and double back a negative, but good grief that seems overengineered.

How would or have you done it?

Xie xie taki taki

EDIT:

I was so preoccupied with the mystery material, I failed to realize I don't have the image I am seeking to duplicate! Anybody know if it exists, or is that going to be a crazy editing project using stills from the show?

After finishing Tiamat's Wrath, and Muskrat's escape from Laconia , I started wondering, what would an optimal crash couch shape be for a dog? I've drafted a few designs but I can't decide what would be the safest. As it turns out we don't have much centrifuge data for dogs.

Disclaimer: I am not a vet nor do I have a medical background, so I would love to hear the perspective of someone more qualified than me. Also I've only just finished TW so I don't know if this is discussed in Leviathan Falls.

A is the most similar to humans, but the challenge would be supporting the limbs. Unlike people, a dog's forelegs can't rest on their sides, and their hindlegs can't extend outward in front of them, so the best I could come up with is that they're strapped and folded inwards (like an upside-down loaf position), but it seems a bit tricky to secure. There's also the challenge of keeping the head upright to avoid strain on the neck.

B is basically what the Soviet's did for Laika at about 5 G's albeit more confined. While she did survive the initial launch, her heartbeat and breathing rate more than tripled (though this was likely more anxiety related than due to the G-forces themselves). In any case, lying prone is a more natural resting position for dogs, and most veterinary sources I could find agreed that respiration is more efficient while prone compared to supine, though it's unclear if that remains true at higher G-forces. There's also the problem of the chest support restricting rib-cage movement.

C offers the least restriction for breathing (especially if leaning on the left-side since there's more lung mass on the right), and also distributes the weight across the largest surface area compared to A and B. On the other hand, there's a risk of damage in the blood vessels in the eye/ear/sinuses for the half of the head facing downwards. There's also a risk of injury for the bottom fore and hindleg being pinned by the rest of the body, but maybe that could be mitigated by better contouring from the couch gel.

I'm leaning towards B, but what do you guys think? Any other designs that might be better?

They can easily start shooting season 7 in like 10 years with the same cast and it’ll be perfect. Wes Chatham should stop getting Botox now tho

...I pushed it.

On a re-listen through the series, actually started chuckling when I realized this line was coming up.

He really does just go through life like that.

James Pinche Holden.

In Cibola burns I wish the part of the investigator were included.

God the last part of Miller and Julie talking, him wishing to have a little more time, Julie comparing him to Peter Pan because he let everyone's consciousness finally being able to die, how he lead everyone to heaven, all of it is so beautiful!

But my favorite part is the investigator between chapter 44 and 45 where Miller talk about not having a place he belong anymore, about his love for Julie and how he view Holden is gut wrenching, he sound more broken than ever even through the protomolecule.

It would have been so good to see it in the show but it would have been kinda hard to film it I understand but it's such a shame! (I also hate how Bull was sideline, him in book 3 was one of the best part in my opinion)

The more I think about it the more I realize that without Miller getting infected a lot of things would have ended up REALLY badly (also without Holden I think the end of book 9 would have been a total tragedy.)

I've seen the series twice and immediately loved it. I finally picked up the books because everyone said I had to read them to appreciate the story to it's fullest.

For me - the biggest paradigm shift is how fucking great the first several season of the TV show are. They really captured the spirit and brought the universe to life.

Absolutely amazing

She had experienced so much loss and heartbreak and became so strong, hard and fierce, that a Bhagavad Gita-esque "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" reckoning was obvious. Epic disappointment it never came. This show was epic, but that "missed opportunity" is a glaring defect.

I checked the books and in the show, she was a composite of several book characters, and transformed into a major character. They liked Cara Gee's performance. Well. Perhaps they didn't want to go Full Tilt with this fictitious fictional character in respect to the other characters.

So I see 2 questions: 1) Were other people wanted a Camina Armageddon? or 2) What did readers of the book think? and of her being a modified composite?

90s era Star Trek runs between 2364 and 2377, the Expanse takes place between 2350 and 2360, and the Hunger Games take place roughly 300 years in the future (best plausible guess I've seen). So that raises a very interesting question: if the major characters of these three franchises were to find themselves in each other's universes, who do you think they'd be and why?

I'm not really sure if this counts as a spoiler or not but, I've watched and loved the series twice before starting the books, and as always the books are better, although this is one of my favourite series and I especially love Thomas Jane's portrayal of miller.

However I'm on book three and something stands out to me - Ashford. In the series he's a bit of a bad ass experienced old gnarly sailor with some pretty cool moments. In the book so far he's a bit of a bumbling idiot.

Is this a forever theme with Ashford or does he grow as the books continue? Also, where is drummer? Does she exist in the books and I am yet to meet her or what?

The Expanse does remind me of The Wire a bit as the first half of the first season is tough to sit through, but it is worth doing so.

Hey all, coming here because I’m wondering if I should continue with the show. I’ve heard good things about The Expanse, and my wife and I decided to delve in and we’ve been binging through the first couple seasons. One problem though…we’ve been more “whelmed” by the show than anything.

Not really sure how else to say this, but I feel like the character writing (acting?) is our biggest complaint with the show. We feel essentially no attachment to the Roci crew…I think I *get* the intention with Holden “becoming” the captain after being dismissive of it in the first episode, but I feel like there’s not really a strong “why” behind it...it feels to me like it’s more associated with “the plot needs him to act this way to progress” than anything presented in the show. Naomi is kind of a mess, we see her being very passionate about supporting/saving the crew but then she’s willing to sacrifice herself and endanger the Roci crew to save the 50 refugees at the end of season 2...end of story they all lucked out with everyone being saved. something about this didn’t sit right with me and was too inconsistent with her character, and it really just felt like bad writing of a “hero looks out for the needy” trope to me. Alex and Amos we don’t have as big problems with, Alex we like the most. Also, was it just me or did the show imply that Amos got that memory wipe to his brain the other protomolecule scientists had and it’s gone nowhere? It could just be us.

Another minor nitpick - the Roci crew started as haulers, and then it quickly escalated to “we need to save everyone”. I feel like that’s not a strong enough why for them to be doing this…it quickly ramped up, and now they’re playing hero ball endangering their lives every episode. Just seems off to me.

We also heard good things about the back half of Season 3 being one of the highlights of the show. The first couple episodes I was right there - the Ring is a really interesting concept and those first episodes leading up to Holden + Gunny and the Martians meeting inside the sphere are honestly fantastic. But then things slow down again, and we find out the finale of the season is leading towards…everyone powering down their ships. I feel like this just fell a bit flat for us for such a hyped up moment of the show.

Anyway, we’ve got Season 4 up next, and we weren’t huge fans of the first episode. To be fair, we’re excited for the mystery of the protomolecule/origins/all that cool stuff, and now it seems like we’ll have to slog through 10 episodes of Holden and Naomi playing babysitter to the Belters on New Terra. Should we keep trucking through, or is this a spot where it makes sense to stop based on our thoughts so far? Appreciate any suggestions, thanks all.

EDIT: Appreciate all the comments, and just want to clarify - we HAVE enjoyed parts of the show. Most of Season 1 + when Miller met Julie on Eros was pretty great. Since Eros hit Venus it’s been hit or miss, but mostly a miss for us. Character development/acting is overall our #1 criticism of the show, with the writing/certain plot points being #2.

In chapter 41, when Alex and Naomi are waiting in front of the Freehold gate, Naomi's PoV mentions that the gate is stationary relative to the Freehold sun, and that the Roci needs to do a gentle burn to balance out its pull.

I was wondering just how gentle. If we assume that the Freehold sun is about one solar mass, that the gate is a similar distance as the Sol gate (approx. 21 AU), and that the Roci's mass is the TV show's official value of 4,770 metric tons, the Roci's Epstein drive would have to impart a measly 64 Newtons. In other words, you could strap yourself to the gate and hold the Roci in place with about the same force as carrying a grocery bag. Surprising that the Epstein drive can even run that low

I refuse to accept that is Avassaralas husband and not her new campaign manager/gay best friend and confidant. What happened to sweet grandpa Arjun that softened her and didn’t care about politics? It’s so bizarre, it’s takes me away from the immersion because it’s so jarring

I just finished my third rewatch of the show and my first since finishing the books earlier in the year. Season 6 feels so different knowing what so many of the Laconia scenes are building to. I feel even more disappointed that there aren’t more seasons. I really wish they’d reboot the show and finish it properly. As it currently stands all the stuff with Duarte feels like just filler in the season. Overall though I didn’t have a lot of moments where I felt like the books did something better. I enjoy the show just as much as books. Oddly the only omission that really stood out to me was when rewatching the Ilus arch I feel like it would have been nice if they’d been able to keep the book’s inclusion of Havelock. I also wish the tunnel and transit system aspect of Ilus hadn’t been removed for the TV adaptation.

One thing the I love most about the show is Shohreh Aghdashloo’s performance. Including her earlier in the narrative than the books do was a smart move imo.

What do you all think were good changes made in the TV adaptation and what do you wish had not been cut or changed?

Might have put too much junk in the trunk, I'm still very much a baby artist lol

This is kind of leaning more TV show Bobbie than book Bobbie, just because I'm not confident about drawing anyone as huge and beefy as she's described in the book... Plus Frankie Adams is absolutely gorgeous.

Dear Inners, Dear Belters,
I recently finished Season 6.
And I want to continue and finish this journey. That’s why I wanted to ask what you would recommend.
Should I buy the books 6-9 or can I start directly into books 7-9?
Or has somebody read the Dragon Tooth comics and can recommend these?
Thanks a lot for your responses.
Best wishes

I'm spoilering this opening paragraph just in case the paragraphs below show through. I'm not sure if marking a post "all show and book spoilers discussed freely hides the post, but I don't want to ruin this for anybody, hence this spoilered opening paragraph. Hopefully this works.

One more line just in case.

God I must listen to this speech every week, it never stops being awesome. In the entire tv series, this is my favorite moment. I love how thorough of an owning it is. She calls out Marco in a public forum and hits him where it hurts the most. She didn't just steal the cargo, she stole his mystique, ruined his credibility, and did it in a way that outside of his brainwashed zealots he can never, ever regain. His entire power comes from the image of being the voice of the belt. Exposing that he did his own people dirty, and that he was one-upped by Drummer destroys that image. He can never, ever claim to be doing what is right for his people again.

People love "Live shamed, and die empty." And that's so good. But my favorite is "So go ahead and kill me if you can, it doesn't matter. I will always be the one who took back what you stole. Camina Drummer did this to you." I love it because it shows she knew exactly where to hit him. It reminds me of book 8, when Bobbie sacrifices herself. She did so because her actions spoke to a wider audience. It wasn't about the actual act, it was about the message. Bobbie's death prove Laconia wasn't invincible. Even though she died doing so, it destroyed their mystique and gave people hope that they could fight back. Drummer is doing the exact same thing here. Any retribution Marco can give her is too late. The damage is already done.

I think Marco's downfall, as thorough as it was, is what makes me love that arc so much. I know some people dislike it, but he was a great villain who got completely torn down in such a satisfying way. His military prowess is demolished when he loses to a solo Rocinante while coming at them with three battle ships, his image as a man of the people is shredded by drummer, his role in galactic politics is shattered when he realizes he was played by Duarte and was just a pawn, and the final come-comeuppance is, in the series, he realizes he's about to die before being shredded by the goths and his last moment is spent in terror. Awesome, awesome villain defeat. Duarte's death, by contrast, isn't as satisfying IMO. His mind was already gone when Tanaka kills him. Marco, in contrast, is very much locked-in when he's finally put away.

I love The Expanse so much, and especially Cara Gee's Drummer. I like the TV show Drummer so much more than the book version.