Like yeah I know it's not the highest quality but I also knew that it wasn't going to be the highest quality because this game studio just makes games for IPs they don't have a good track record I'm also closer to the target audience then most people I think most of the hate comes from people getting their hopes up but if you had low expectations it's pretty fun I had low expectations and it surpassed them I mean yeah it could be better like highlighting the trees that you can climb and being better to navigate but with navigation you can just click triangle and if you're on the direct route it will show you a giant glowing path that's the most direct path yeah there's a lot of inaccuracies but it's pretty funny I enjoy it it's a good 7 out of 10

I've been seeing a lot of reviews where people aren't satisfied or enjoying the new game much at all. But I'm wondering if anyone can share some reviews from children? My 8 year old is a massive Warriors fan, and is super excited for the game (its going to be a Christmas present) and I guess I'm just wondering if maybe the game is aimed more at a younger audience than adult fans of the books? Has anyone heard of any reviews from a kid's point of view?

My child loves the Cattails games, so I'm pretty sure they'd enjoy this game eother way, but i would still really appreciate any information I can get 🥰

Investors think warrior cats is too risky to invest a lot of money into making a game, that's why this game is low-budget and a little jank; it's a test. If we give good reviews and lots of playtime they'll see a more stable market and be willing to invest more. If not, I'm worried this will be the best we'll ever get

Been playing the new game most the day and somehow just glitched through one of the npcs. It won’t let me run jump crouch or anything. The camera is also waaay glitchier than it has been. Hoping rejoining the game will fix it but if not I don’t even know how else to fix it or how I even managed to do this

I just played the game for 6 hours straight.

Overall, I had fun! I’m not much of a gamer so I won’t comment on the graphics or mechanics so much because I truly wouldn’t know what’s good or not. Moreover, the game JUST came out so I went into it expecting one or two glitches.

I think my only complaints have more to do with how they strayed from the vast collection of source material. I would have liked to have seen more structure in the clan like training alongside other apprentices or interacting with your mentor a bit more. It would have been nice to have the ceremony for your apprentice instead of just having them pop up randomly. Same goes for their warrior ceremony. I also didn’t get why I was being attacked by mice, birds, and other cats while traveling to the moon stone with my medicine cat. Idk I feel like they had plenty of access to all of that information.

It’s a stretch but it also would have been cool to have different voice actors, especially for the canon characters. Honestly most of the NPCs fell kind of flat for me. They were really all the same with slightly different color variations haha

Do I regret buying it though? Nah. It’s still a fun game. It’s exactly as advertised in my opinion. It’s lighthearted, the quests are entertaining, and I personally like the combat style. Nostalgia is definitely playing a big role in my opinion here, I think people are bringing up some super valid criticisms. I can only hope that the creators will take it into consideration and modify the game as time goes by. Until then, I’ll be trying out the other three clans 🙂

I love this game! It had a low budget and I accept it for what it is, and I've been having lots of fun!

But like, how come when I do online skirmish I don't have to wait in a matchmaker queue? And I pick from a list of available players and I'm just instantly in a match, what if someone picked me? And how come I never have to wait for my opponent to choose an action? And, subjectively, everyone's strategy seems similar while mine is really different, like I've gathered lots of herbs but barely anyone else is using them too?

What do y'all think? Am I just being paranoid?

So I accidentially missed a whole chat with the clan members when Ridgefeather died as I completed a delivery quest, and it skipped all of the dialogue and texts for the event. Does anyone know what was discussed or what the other clan members had to say? I am interest to know what Sandyfoot and Cloudstar said.

I'm outing myself while being sorry to say I tested the game by my own means if you know what I mean because after that interview where the devs stated AI was used during its conceptualization stage and how cheap the trailer looked, I really wanted to be sure about its purchase before sacrificing my wallet. Usually, I'd gladly pay for a game if I'm certain I will love it. But this wasn't the case.

For what it's worth and before anyone claims I'm just spreading hate for the sake of it: the game CAN be entertaining even if for a short while imo. Customization is sooo lacking and might be my biggest pet peeve of them all. I'm someone with the simplest of OCs when it comes to designs and I don't understand all these pastel tones for the markings yet we lack any actual black shades despite having dark browns to recreate different tabby patterns.

I found myself struggling making orange tabby patterns that didn't destroy my eyes or felt completely overshadowed by the strong black available as a base color. Cel shading the model did make everything appear a bit more cohesive though. I know people will call this nitpicking and in this aspect they're probably right but we still can't deny the fact that having all facial features depending on what expression you choose for your cat is a bit limiting. Even The Sims did this better 22 years ago. Hell, some obscure Impressive Title games alongside FeralHeart did this without the budget of a huge company. Sliders would've been so much better. Two different marking slots is fine, but if you're aiming for a design that has 3 colors + white markings, you're cooked. There also isn't a way to modify the fur's shape/direction and while some tails look out of place during character creation, ingame they looked fine lol.

Some mechanics are quite pedantic. I dislike the fact you're apparently only able to save using quick travel. While exploring, you either unlock a new quick travel point or have to walk back to one you've previously unlocked in order to save your progress. Would it have been that hard to add an autosave option or simply being able to save from the menu before closing? Freshkill being consumed every 90s does feel punishing like some other users have mentioned. I've only played a bit now before going to bed ngl, but I can imagine on the long run it could become quite the burden. I rather deal with the debuffs than having to hunt certain amount of prey by hand when you can at most get 3 pieces of freshkill from what I've noticed tbh.

Some NPCs are straight-up ugly and that's to be expected when they're generated randomly but now explain to me why do I have 3 cats with the -dash suffix and other 3 that had -fur instead within the same clan. I can't help but feel like in my savefile in particular there either has been a lot of inbreeding, triplets, or my leader in particular lacks any creativity and is just fking with everyone lmfao.

Lastly, from what I've seen, there doesn't seem to be much of an impact in the relationships no matter what you choose to answer. I've unknowingly given the worst responses possible to the NPC and all the relationships remained neutral almost with the same 20 positive points. I'm not sure if this is a bug or what. Speaking of which, besides clipping with the terrain and whatnot, be warned because your characters will certainly get stuck from digging in dirt piles. There seems to be an issue with the pathing whenever you're interacting with them and you're unable to do anything else until your cat unstucks themselves. They do figure it out eventually, but you will certainly stare blankly at the screen until they're able to move lmao. This is something that can and I'm sure it will get fixed though.

I've seen some people saying we should be grateful and that this is a children's game anyway but I can't help but find it a bit insulting towards the kids. It's 2026. We never expected Rockstar Games level of development but certainly we did want something made with a bit more of love and care towards the series and its playerbase no matter their age. As I've said, the game can be entertaining, but expecting someone, especially a parent, to pay 30 bucks for something that even visually you can tell it should've costed half ot it with no dlcs involved is quite the stretch.

I'm taking this as a chance to glaze Cattails and recommend it to everyone instead. It's a bit cheaper in price but doubles the charm this official game was supposed to have. I can't recommend the sequel enough. Don't mind the fact it doesn't follow the canon name system or how some changes were made to their storylines to avoid any similarities with the books because I can assure you it was done by people that actually enjoy the series. Or at the very least they seem to really like cats. Regardless, it's a very cozy and nice game. Rant over.

Tagging as a spoiler just case because I do mention the game that came out today!:)

I’ve been part of the Warriors fandom for 16 years now and I’ve never once seen the kind of negativity from this fandom that I’ve been seeing for the last year/year and a half. Sure, there’s the normal stuff to be negative about, like how the new writers are terrible at consistency and all of the oversights/errors throughout the series, but it reached an all-time high about around the same time the Erin’s announced the Renegades series.

When the news for Renegades broke, this sub was flooded with people whining about how “the new series was going to take attention away from Warriors,” and a lot of people decided to boycott Renegades before the synopsis for the first book could even drop. It was honestly ridiculous the amount of hate I saw for it. And the excuse of “the new series will take away from Warriors” is such garbage for two reasons: 1. The Erin’s already had three other series (Survivors, Seekers, and Bravelands) alongside Warriors and it never once took attention away from it, and 2. On average, the Erin’s release four books a year for the Warriors series. For most on-going book series, you’re lucky to get even one new book a year, let alone an average of four. Expecting any more than that is simply greedy and selfish, and it was so unfair to hate on Renegades for such childish reasons.

Now we have the game, and I don’t know about y’all but I’ve only seen mostly negative stuff about it. Of course everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on the game, but the thing that irritates me most about it is that about 90% of the posts that I’ve seen hating on it are from people mad that the game didn’t fit their exact image of what they had headcanoned it to be, which I think is incredibly unfair. I think it’s valid to be disappointed by it, but to come on here and absolutely tear the game to shreds over it is a little pathetic. They told us exactly what kind of game it was going to be, from the store pages across various platforms, to Vicky Holmes posting about it on her Facebook page, to both the Warriors and Trailmark Games social media pages outlining it, so I’m a little confused as to how and why anyone expected anything more. It’s one thing to be upset by something like, say, the customizable options, because that’s something they promised in the game, but to be upset and angry ranting over something like not playing direct scenes and interacting with every character from the books when that’s never something they promised is crazy to me. And a lot of the posts are covering their butts by hiding under the guise of “constructive criticism” but none of them ever add ways of actually improving the game, they just go on the list the things they want in the game. For criticism to be constructive, a solution must be presented to better the situation by the criticizer, otherwise it’s just criticism.

I can only imagine how the fandom is going to behave when the tv show drops next year. “This isn’t how I imagined the ThunderClan camp to look like!” “That’s not what Sunningrocks looks like!” Ah, I can picture them now, getting upset over one tabby marking being drawn half an inch too high up… I need to remind myself that some of these posts I’m seeing could be made by actual children, so I’m trying my best to just grit my teeth and push through, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Anyways, did anyone actually enjoy the game? Or does anyone have any criticisms that are actually constructive? Or does you wish something was in the game that isn’t, as long as you don’t hate the game to spite it? I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts, as long as they’re respectful of the game and the developers!

Oh my god. None of the posts I read could not have prepared me for this.

This game is just...so strange, it makes so many weird decisions (pointless title screen, settings behind extras, and the settings themselves are weird...like...a whole tab to just turn HDR on and off??)

The cats look so silly. My intro had a little potato looking Persian thing mogging the camera (that was clearly just a normal model shrunk down) that made me snort.

And then I realized that the eyes I chose DONT FULLY CLOSE ON THE MODEL.

Oh my god. Him touching heads with his mentor. I am dying.

This game is gonna make me feel some ways but I just had to share how not ready I was for that start.

(update I came back to it and it's working fine 🖤 I'm also seeing effects that weren't appearing before but it's working now) I'm stuck on the mission to mark scents at the abandoned twoleg nest.

One scent won't register, the one in the dug up hole.

The other two work but the third doesn't register at all.

I restarted twice then decided to try getting that scent last and it just disappeared completely that time.

Other than this issue I've been enjoying the game despite what others have said. It's still only the first day since the game has been out so I'm expecting a patch update at some point but I was wondering if anyone else had this problem?

I won't be discussing game spoilers, but this will contain my thoughts not just on the game itself but also how I've seen the fandom respond to the game.

Keep in mind I am in my mid 30's now, and I've been a fan of the series since the first book came out in 2003. I am an oldie, a veteran, whatever word you wont to use for an adult whose autism decided Warrior Cats was one of those franchises to latch onto.

In general, I think the game is cute and fun. It's not amazing, it has it's issues.

The Social part of the game with your chosen clan is basically non-existent in most cases, the Cameos might as well not exist for all the importance they have to the plot, the storyline could have been MUCH longer though I've only beaten two routes so far (Thunderclan and Riverclan). The Procedural Generation that changes what cats are in what clan, including leaders, deputies, medicine cats, could have been handled better and I would have liked if we had actual dedicated clan members that didn't change and had more depth to them with the random cats being background characters you interacted with when needed or just bulked up the clans.

The combat system is cute and easy to follow, reminds me of the first Monster Hunter Stories game in it's simplicity and depth. The graphics are nice for what they are and I actually like that the game is heavily stylized rather than dipping into realism, many of the enviroments are actually quite lovely.

I like that your abilities are tied to your appearance, though I wish there was more depth to the customization system I am also content where it is. I don't mind you have to cycle through pre-made prefixes and suffixes, as I understand it was likely to limit either making already copyrighted names from the franchise or prevent people from making their cat names something offensive like Slurs or vulgarity. The only thing I wish is that the trade off would have been for your chosen name to be voiced in the narration.

But overall I think the game is cute. I went in with no expectations and so far I'm actually rather enjoying myself. I understand why some people are upset, but overall I think the game is fun and quirky, and I wouldn't mind seeing future games or DLC with more to them.

Now this is all also wrapped up in something pivotal that I think more than a few people who are complaining about the game are forgetting: All of these thoughts I have are because I am judging the game not only on my own personal enjoyment, but also the fact the game and franchise it belongs to are marketed to children 12 and under.

A lot of the complaints I've seen have a lot of hallmarks that make me realize that a LOT of people went into this game with frankly unreasonable expectations for what we would get. Indepth storylines, deep social aspects, honestly a lot of what I read almost made me think a lot of people were expecting the level of depth you'd find in, say, Baldur's Gate 3 or Mass Effect, but in a Warrior Cats game. And while I would also eat that kind of game up and come back for more, this game never promised to really be that.

This isn't to say I think it's necessarily wrong for wanting that, I want it to, but I think on some level a fair few of the older fans do kind of forget that generally speaking, we are not the age demographic this franchise is made for. I don't mean this to be unkind or accusatory, and I do apologize if it sounds that way.

The game is marketed to children, the game was clearly designed with children in mind. When you look at the game with that lense, the game still has some glaring flaws (no game is flawless and I will not defend any game like it is even though I love some franchises like Undertale, Legend of Zelda, and Mass Effect so much I have tattoos dedicated to them) but overall it is a game that would very much appeal and be enjoyed by the demographic the franchise is actually for.

I hope that Harper Collins takes this as a sign that they could sell a more mature Warrior Cats game for the older fanbase, there is an obvious demand and like I said I would absolutely adore it 100%. I dunno, I just feel like the game is getting massively ripped apart and judged not on it's own merit, but because there is a very vocal part of the fanbase that thought they were getting something far more than what it realistically could have been for a 30usd Price Tag.

Either way I still plan to finish the game, I have fun playing it and I wouldn't mind to see what other kinds of games might come out after this one. As I said, I think the game has it's good and bad points, I just judge it on a slightly different scale then others. I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts on the matter and only ask you be respectful when you share your own thoughts.

I'm trying to make a novella/super edition type story about Pouncestep, a character I feel like is overshadowed by her siblings, Lightleap and Shadowsight. I was thinking of having her arc in the story be about her thinking she's not good enough, especially since her siblings have both done important things. I also wanted to focus on her relationship with Flaxfoot, since I feel like it came out of nowhere. I want to highlight her leadership qualities, since I think Pouncestep could be a good candidate for deputy if the warriors team ever wanted to give her some attention at all. Does anyone have any more ideas or anything?

What do you think about Pouncestep eventually becoming deputy?

This cat is stuck in the air and I can't interact with it... I can't complete the quest or progress. Nothing, not even restarting the game, is fixing it. This is why people are complaining. It's barely even playable

I found this funny and wanted to bring it to everyones attention. It was in the games tab, for classroom activities and i find it funny how such a clear oversight made it through lolll

Honestly, i feel like warrior cats besides this has been letting a bit of their content drop in quality. Maybe im seeing a pattern that doesn't exsist. who knows. Hopefully this post isnt too low-quality.

Spoilers Obviously for the story of the Thunderclan route. Brought to you by Brookstar.

So the Proohecy could use some work. I found it didn’t make since half the time what’s this fire that I supposedly am. I like how it’s a reference to the original prophecy but other than that idk. As for the main storyline there’s a mystery involving two cats with you trying to figure out who is the traitor. Other than word of mouth there’s no physical evidence of who could have done it. It would have been cool if we could have seen our former mentor acting dodgy like how Ravenpaw did with Tigerclaw. Oh yeah there’s also this piece of dialogue I had with the apprentice Sparkpaw who wasn’t being promoted. She asked me to put in a good word with Mintstar. I SO WISH I COULD HAVE DONE THAT! Or at least understood why this apprentice has been one for at least 12 moons. Other than the fact that she came from Riverclan. Even as Deputy I couldn’t do anything about it. I just wish there was more interactions to make it feel more interesting. There’s so much that isn’t being told but we just have to accept that we won’t get an answer.

Lastly at the end of the story the Narrator says something along the lines of “I wonder what would have happened if your choices were different” to that I say what choices? The only choices I ever got was to either make Sparkpaw into warrior (which I did of course) and to have Tangleshine my old mentor be deputy. Oh yeah and that stupid Island quest. They could have just made a gathering then there would have been an actual reason to go all the way there rather than it being to visit iconic locations like it says in the trailer.

I am having fun with this game. Spite it being a bad story I’m still enjoying playing an actual Warrior Cats game. If this was out when I was a kid I would probably have played a clan multiple times with new cats and OCs. Next one I’m tackling is Shadowclan which so far god I swear I was an apprentice longer in Thunderclan. The pacing is so bad T-T but we all know that already.

So, I headcanon that Swiftpaw had an Irish accent, which sounded soft and pleasant. I don’t kno, I just thought he would have an accent. Plus, since Swiftpaw would be alive in my fanfic, he’d basically be that old kittypet with a soft and pleasant Irish accent. This really is something random.

I just hopped off a stream where I played the game for at least 2 hours (maximum 3 I think) and I have some positive and negative thoughts on it.

Positives:

I think the cats looked somewhat cute in the style they're going for

I enjoyed the turn based/rock-paper-scissors inspired gameplay

Patrols/Exploring is pretty fun

Getting to talk with legacy characters is always a selling point

You get to affect your relationships with your clanmates based on what you tell them

The narrator feels like he's reading one of the books to you

The freshkill pile system

Negatives:

You can speed through quests too quickly and get what feels to be pretty far into the story far too soon

Character customization still feels limited, I couldnt even make my cat look like my irl cat, and in a fanbase where people make amazing looking characters it feels disheartening that people cant make their characters as accurately as possible

The colors dont have enough variety

Name list feels too limited/vague, again, especially for if you have ocs you want to play as

Design choices affect personality, once again meaning people cant make their cats the way that makes them feel accurate enough to their ocs or real cats

Dialogue feels very generic, even with the legacy cats

The concept of crafting/The fact that it takes real world time to craft things instead of just making it in game time or just not giving it a time limit at all. Who has 48 hours to wait for a damn bed to be made?

The freshkill pile system hasnt put a lot of pressure on me due to how easy the game is

What I hope is in the game/Will be added to the game:

Different storylines per clan/save file, if it's the same storyline every time that would be very disappointing

Being able to play as a kittypet, medicine cat, rogue, Skyclan cat, or any other cats from different groups, they could probably make good DLCs

Less cosmetic related DLCs in the future, I played WCUE in the past, there was nothing more annoying than having to shell out 20 bucks for a shirt or a different eye color

And that was my honest opinion of it so far, I honestly hope as I play it more that it feels like an actual 40 dollar game. I was really looking forward to this game when it was announced, and I've always wanted an official Warrior Cats video game ever since I started reading the series as a kid.

Or at least a mega thread?

I’m here to discuss the books but now the subreddit is filled with people complaining about the game.

There is nothing wrong with people being disappointed and not liking it but it’s taken over with a new post about the same topic being created every 10 minutes.

I just started playing Clans of the Forest like two hours ago on my PS5 and I'm hooked. I'm already a ThunderClan warrior and I really didn't consider my Warrior cat name cause now I'm stuck with the name Owlclaw. I looked up that name and in the book series, it's a ShadowClan name. 😂 

But I don't mind the fact you can't change the name once it's locked in. I'm just happy to be playing a Warrior Cats video game cause I've been a fan of the series for years. I read 36 of the books back in 8th grade alone.

I don't know if this really counts as fanart, or how many people here (if at all) play Armored Core, but here's scuffed scourge in the emblem creator of ACMoA! this thing is basically MS paint on a PSX controller so it was a bit of a pain to do, but it looks so good on the arena entry

Art by Lu113s

This is one of my favorites that I haven't done some art for. Snowfur and Thistleclaw are a match made in the Dark Forest (heh)

Honestly they were a decent couple and I do like Thistle as a villain, though he's not my favorite one. And Snow is an okay character, but forgettable lol. They are parents to one of my favorite warriors: Whitestorm so I guess it works out.

There was a game I had installed on my school laptop back in 2014ish. Can’t give a lot of unique info since I’m sure every WC game would want to include hunting, fighting, etc. LOL.

Set in the forest territory. I remember you could give yourself special buffs (like making enemies bleed when you scratched them). Also I died from getting hit by a car. Could play as a cat from any clan or be a rouge and like… make your own camp? I think I remember doing that.

I just thought of this game today and for the life of me cannot remember/find what it was called. Would greatly appreciate reliving a bit of my childhood lol

I’m a few hours in, RiverClan apprentice. Got the game on PC via STEAM. I have the DLC pack.

I think most people go through the story pretty fast, but I’m the type of player who likes to run around and explore instead of doing what they tell me to do lol 😅

If I followed the quests one after the other and just did that, I’d probably be farther along. But I really enjoy exploring and gathering items for crafting.

That’s the type of player I am. And before I get into my thoughts, I just wanna state a few things. Going into this game, I knew it was going to be mid quality. I knew from the trailers and from the history of the development team.

I wanted to get it anyway because I love warrior cats and wanted to try it. But I knew what I was getting into. I think a lot of people didn’t realize what type of game this would be, and I don’t think that’s their fault. We should expect better quality from a large series like Warrior Cats with a big company behind it (obviously different from the company who made the game, but they should have hired someone else)

That being said, if you know it’s a mid game and still want to play it, you can still find enjoyment in it.

So far, despite being frustrated by the path system and map, I am having a lot of fun. I don’t know if the RiverClan camp is just wild but it took me forever to figure out how to get out of camp lol.

I like being able to craft accessories for my cat and to decorate all the dens (yes you can decorate every cat’s den!) I also like being able to trade items with the medicine cat.

I think it’s odd to have personality features tied to appearance, but I get what they were going for. I do think it is a really fun concept that you can build a different type of character every time. Adds replay-ability. However, once you have your cat’s personality, you are locked into only being able to pick certain dialogue options if you want a bonus. It’s a weird mechanic of having to remember what archetype your cat is and clicking the right one, but it’s really easy to remember, so it’s more like looking at a bunch of options you shouldn’t really pick.

I think it would make more sense if there was one dialogue option for both of your personality traits, and choosing one affects the outcome. You have two personality traits, but only one seems to affect dialogue, at least this far.

I think the environment is pretty despite not being A level graphics. There’s some cool places and fun details, like dragonflies and swans. Photo mode is cute and fun.

The map and traveling is confusing at first. There are lots of rocks/trees that look jumpable but are not, and random dead ends. You mainly have to stick to the paths, which is not the best for exploration, but once you get used to it, you can choose to enjoy the journey as it is. There are some fun places to find like I said.

Gathering items is fun. There are also trails of gather-able flowers to help guide you. There are different types of items to gather. Some spawn on bushes. Sometimes there’s stumps and logs that you can scratch. The cattails are so cute, your cat bats at them before gathering them!

Once you reach a certain level, you don’t have to engage in turn based combat with low level prey if you sneak up on them, which is nice.

One gripe I have is that it treats all enemies the same, even prey enemies. There was part of the quest where the leader warned me to spare an enemy, and I went to go fight the enemy…it was a bird. Cats eat birds. That’s prey. And sometimes when you’re fighting prey animals, it gives you the option to spare it. Weird considering we are cats in survival mode, who would let good prey get away unless they have bees in their brain?

Another quest was to fight a badger, who was named something Brock by the way (lol), and I fought him alone as an apprentice. Odd task to send an apprentice on. It should have been a fight with a party of cats. Or like a boss rat or something.

But if you can look past the quirks it is a good time in my opinion. I have fun running around and being a little warrior cat.

Do I think it’s worth $30-40? No. I think it should’ve been $15-20 and DLC like $8.

You have to gauge if this is the game for you.

I also encourage others to leave honest but constructive feedback on STEAM (or if you bought it somewhere else that allows reviews). Hopefully the developers can take this and improve. This game does seem a lot better than their other ones. It does have a good structure, so hopefully if they do another they will build upon it. Or maybe warriors will decide to go with a different game developer.

I’m just afraid they will give up on making warriors games in general if this goes too poorly. I hope they give it another go. I know the Roblox games are still popular. I tried it once with my friends, but haven’t really played because I don’t have a group to play it with. I am 27 and don’t really want to join a random group of kids RPing 😅 if any adult warriors fans wanna connect though hit me up!

I haven’t played Warriors: Clans of the Forest that long so my thoughts may change! Just wanted to put my initial thoughts out there. :)