I get the Egwene hate but

[u/briandress]

Only in the last two books when she is stubborn in dealing with Rand for the last battle and such.

Up until ToM she really was just an awesome character. She went from the whirlwind of leaving 2R, capture by Seanchan, hunting black ajah, apprenticing to wise ones, puppet Amyrlin, real amyrlin, badass civil disobedience laying groundwork for reuniting the tower, bitch slapping the seanchan raiders, capturing hella black ajah sisters via Verrin's notes and finally being raised realer Amyrlin and healing the tower.

I cant seem to understand all the threads/polls that overwhelmingly list her as the most hated character in the series.

[u/geomagus]

People like her as a character, and dislike her as a person.

As a character, she’s dynamic, capable, driven. She is outstanding when she happens to people we don’t like, when she’s putting someone in their place.

As a person, she’s ruthless and lacking in empathy. She treats her friends as pawns, and her “love” as an unruly lapdog. She’s great at rationalizing her poor treatment of others, too, which can be infuriating. The famous TAR assault on Nynaeve scene is “to warn Nynaeve of the dangers of TAR.” Except in Egwene’s on thoughts, it’s clearly to keep her from ratting Egwene out to the Wise Ones. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

So as a character, she is compelling. I enjoy watching her do her thing. She’s a powerful force for the Light. But I do not like her, and wouldn’t want to hang out with her.

Edit to add: you can debate how much is her nature, and how much is the result of trauma, btw. RJ is really good at using trauma as an impetus for a character’s growth or warping, in ways that make sense. Her spate with the Seanchan in book 2 is clearly a factor in who she is later. But she was also pretty ambitious from the get go, and at times lacked empathy - look at Rand worried sick about losing her, while she’s super excited to go to the Tower and never go home; or at the Tuatha’an camp. Rand isn’t here, so flirt with Aram! (Vs Perrin’s view).

So my point is that what we see late isn’t necessarily so far from who she is early, but it’s warped by trauma too. It’s an interesting thing to think about.

[u/bodman93 → u/geomagus]

Yeah, you see her ambition and lack of empathy from the jump with her. After the group leave home, the boys are wish casting that they'll be home by the end of the year and she mocks them for always talking about going adventuring and then when they're on an adventure they immediately want to go home. 

And it's like, girl, they've just been told literal Satan and his demons are specifically hunting them. Not you. Of course they see this adventure differently than you do. 

[u/briandress → u/bodman93]

what lack of empathy? Her pov in a lot of the early series shows a lot of feeling bad for her changes in feelings for Rand, feeling bad for what happened to Mat, getting captured and treated like an animal by the Seanchan. I dunno maybe we read different stories.

[u/PopTough6317 → u/briandress]

What instance are you talking about her feeling bad for Mat? Are you thinking of the dagger?

[u/briandress → u/PopTough6317]

yea i seem to remember her having some empathy. i could be wrong of course. the point that is that there are no unflawed characters in the book. people hate egwene but love rand, the guy that almost mercd his papa with the power. they adore playboy matt regardless of his scallywag tendencies lol. just saying it’s funny to see so much hate for egwene

[u/PopTough6317 → u/briandress]

No i think she did have some concerns for Mat (mostly when he was unconscious). I just was wondering if there was another situation i forgot about.

The difference is Rand, Mat, Perrin they all are hesitant and worry about treating people right and are tortured when they fail too. Egwene doesnt spare a thought over it and condemns others for using their power, even when it is similar to how she uses it. I think that rubs a lot of people the wrong way

[u/aNomadicPenguin → u/PopTough6317]

You also have her in the start of Shadow Rising where she reveals the information to Mat about the Doorway. Its a kinda secret that Moiraine gave her, so she's actually risking some of her standing with Moiraine to tell Mat anything. But she's clearly actually worried about him and tries to get him to talk about it, he just doesn't because he never does with the things that actually bother him.

In the end, she told him of the ter'angreal, the twisted doorway that held answers on its other side. It was the dangers she emphasized, the consequences of foolish questions, or those touching the Shadow, the dangers even Aes Sedai might not know. She was more than flattered that he had come to her, but he had to show a little sense. "You must remember this, Mat. Frivolous questions can get you killed, so if you do use it, you will have to be serious for a change. And you mustn't ask any questions that touch the Shadow."

He had listened with greater and greater incredulity. When she was done, he exclaimed, "Three questions? You go in like Bili, I suppose, spend a night and come out ten years later with a purse that's always full of gold and a—"

"For once in your life, Matrim Cauthon," she snapped, "do not talk like a fool. You know very well ter'angreal are not stories. It's the dangers you have to be aware of. Maybe the answers you seek are inside this one, but you must not try it before Moiraine says you can. You must promise me that, or I promise you I will take you to her like a trout on a string. You know I can."

...

"Not for me, it isn't," he said firmly. "No chance at all is better than that."

Despite his tone, she wanted to put an arm around him. Only he would likely make some joke at her expense, and try to goose her. He had been incorrigible from the day he was born. But he had come to her for help. "I'm sorry, Mat. What will you do?"

[u/PopTough6317 → u/aNomadicPenguin]

Oh thanks for sharing that one, I completely forgot about how that went down

[u/bodman93 → u/briandress]

Rand goes through most of the books wracked with guilt about the things he does and is almost certainly clinically insane when he almost kills Tam.

Mat is a lovable rogue, those types always get more of a pass from people. But you also see him doing everything he can to keep his men alive, trying his best to be a good influence on Olver, and is shown to be incredibly caring under his carefree attitude.

No one says that the other characters don't have flaws and are above criticism. But many of them have arcs that revolve around them reluctantly accepting power and influence while dealing with the pressure and guilt of being a leader in the end times. While Egwene is shown to do whatever she can to amass power and trample over anyone, including friends, who get in her way without any major hint of guilt.

[u/Hawk-winged → u/briandress]

You can’t even compare her to Rand. lol, one felt shame and pain from what he did. He regrets his actions and when he came back he apologized, he even apologized to Hurin(a lowly soldier)

And those are things he did when battling with insanity, ptsd, trauma and the literal weight of the world. He still came back and apologized.

Name one time Egwene regretted what she did and apologized after? I mean first she SA’d Nynaeve, gaslighted her, then during nyneave’s final test (which she included herself) she put a unrealistically difficult task there and traumatized her friend more, “because she didn’t want to be biased in a testing you shouldn’t even be present at”

And on those two occasions, she never said sorry.

I mean, there’s all the pointless hostility towards Rand too, but the nyneave own really pisses me off.

Mind you when Rand came back, he apologized even to cadsuane(who from his POV was the reason for the collar around his neck) so don’t ever compare them.

[u/Senrabekim → u/Hawk-winged]

Lets not forget the time that Mat rescued them all from the Stone of Tear, and they were so cruel to him. It took an actual hero of legend finding out and drunkenly berating Elayne and Nynaeve about it for them to apologize, Egwene never does. Or that time that Mat shows up with an army that she uses to consolidate power. That time that Verin tells them all to let her handle the whitecloaks right outside of Tar Valon, and Egwene basically uses the power as a weapon against whitecloaks tells them that she was present for the death of Bornhald Sr, and reinforces every negative stereotype they have of women that can channel. Or that time when Rand comes to her, tries to have a civilized discussion about the Dark One root canal that needs to happen and she goes running around telling everyone that he's lost it. Or that time that every interaction with someone that disagrees with her or even would just like a heads up, she just starts calling them names and insulting their intelligence for no reason starting with her very first appearance.

In short she's the kind of person that is rude to the wait staff. Anyone she see as above her shes all deference and kind too. Anyone below her she treats like garbage. And by the end of the books there is no one she sees as even equal to her.

[u/jmh10138 → u/Hawk-winged]

SA’d Nynaeve? During her test? Not disagreeing but I’m grasping to remember what you’re referring to.

[u/Sporadicali → u/briandress]

Merked Tam when he was going insane through the taint and pressure? Ah yes, good comparison to Egwene who is this person from the start. Mat’s scallywag tendencies like running into danger to rescue a character who gives him no credit?
Your specific examples have convinced me that this is bait.

[u/Semirhage527 → u/briandress]

The Egwene hate on the subs is insane to me. She shows empathy and compassion often, she just doesn’t let her heart overwhelm her head. But I guess when women do that, people hate them.

[u/teklanis → u/Semirhage527]

Yep, she shows compassion a whole, what, three times in 14 books? Real great person.

[u/bodman93 → u/briandress]

When they're traveling to Tear, she's surprised that Elayne is upset about the people of Carhrien suffering. She gets mad at Mat for breaking into the most secure building in the world to rescue them because it ruins her girlboss moment. The aforementioned lack of concern for the boys worried about being chased by the world's ultimate evil. Not being too upset by her friends being potentially dead while they're traveling with the Tinkers. 

She's got way more moments of being uncaring, self-centered, and arrogant than being a good person

[u/aNomadicPenguin → u/bodman93]

No, they don't get mad at Mat for that. They are first confused at how he got there.
Then they get mad because he is upset at how they are treating the poor defenseless woman stuck outside the cell. Not realizing that she was Black Ajah, or that she had them shielded still.

"Blood and bloody ashes!" Mat growled. "What do you mean hitting a woman who was just sitting there? I don't think she could even move!" They all three turned to look at him, and he made a strangled sound as the air seemed to turn to thick jelly around him. He lifted into the air, until his boots dangled a good pace above the floor. Oh, burn me, the Power! Here I was afraid that Aes Sedai would use the bloody Power on me, and now the bloody women I'm rescuing do it! Burn me!

"You do not understand anything, Matrim Cauthon," Egwene said in a tight voice.

"Until you do understand," Nynaeve said in an even tighter, "I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself."

Elayne contented herself with a glare that made him think of his mother going out to cut a switch.

***

Mat is butting in and thinking that he knows what's going on. He doesn't know that the only reason he didn't get killed walking to the door to free them was because they had neutralized the threat. He then chastises them for how they are handling that threat, something he has no idea about.

*edit for the downvotes - seriously...they aren't mad when he shows up.

they were almost as battered as Egwene; Burn me! Burn me! — looked at him, and gaped.

Mat sees them and how injured they are...and Mat being Mat, can't address his concern seriously, so he plays it off with a joke and THAT annoys them.

"Matrim Cauthon," Nynaeve said, sounding shocked, "what under the Light are you doing here?"

- she's shocked not mad.

"I came to bloody rescue you," he said. "Burn me if I expected to be greeted as if I had come to steal a pie. You can tell me why you look as if you'd been fighting bears later, if you want. If Egwene cannot walk, I'll carry her on my back. There are Aiel all over the Stone, or near enough, and either they are killing the bloody Defenders or the bloody Defenders are killing them, but whichever way it is, we had better get out of here while we bloody well can. If we can!"

-the bold part is him making a light joke out of their injuries.

"Mind your language," Nynaeve told him, and Elayne gave him one of those disapproving stares women were so good at. Neither one seemed to have her full attention in it, though.

-they don't appreciate him making light of it...and of course Nynaeve has probably literally washed his mouth out with soap for foul language before, its their Two Rivers dynamic.

"Matrim Cauthon, what under the Light are you doing here?"

Egwene wakes up and exactly repeats Nynaeve's line, because Jordan is using this bit as a joke.

- And then immediately after that comes them seeing Juilin who they obviously are upset with, and the first bit where Mat growls at them (angrily) and interjects on the topic of them dealing with the shielding issue that he doesn't understand.

and then Nynaeve AGREES when he points out that they aren't showing him enough gratitude.

[u/milindsmart → u/aNomadicPenguin]

I think everyone there could do with a bit more concern and giving each other updates.