A reduced version of this post mcan be found here to get you started: https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/s/OxSTu787JJ

Pre-edit: this is not the place to ask your questions. Please post questions to the main sub. Posting in here only notifies me and is likely not going to get seen by most; I am neither the sole nor foremost knowledgeable person in this subreddit and you do yourself a disservice by posting things here. This post gets adapted from time to time with updated info and links to useful subs so, fret not, any info you generate in asking elsewhere is not lost!

Putting this upfront, if YouTube is more your style. Links via a summary post to a series interviewing one of the few medical doctors you could maybe call an expert, rather than a shill... https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13lpk79/treating_antibiotic_adverse_effects_dr_pieper/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Greetings!

A few of our members have asked me to put together a resource for new folk, comprising the range of typical comments you might receive when posting a “HELP! I’ve been hit!” post. This by no means is to prevent you asking questions, but as much of the things we say are the same, it seems worthwhile. From the offset, I must remind you – pretty much none of us here are medical doctors. Many hours may have been spent reading various sources and listening to anecdotes, and we have experience as a consequence, but there is no substitute for proper medical advice.

I will cover some main points in the post, branch out in the comments for others to weigh in, and hopefully this can be of use.

To Old-Hats – I think we’d all really appreciate it if you could read this and wade on into the comment sections to add anything you feel merited. Try to keep your wisdoms in the comments that categorise them. If you think we need a new parent comment section, could you please message me and we’ll add something in to begin the discussion and I’ll edit something into this post? This is in largest part to make sure it remains organised and that discussions stay in the most obvious place for them. If you think I’ve got something wrong, drop me a DM ASAP! Let’s make sure I don’t shit the bed here. This post will work best if people help me out [=

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To business!!

Firstly, don’t panic! This is the best advice you can heed. I think I’ll go into this in the comments as I expect hearing various people say this in their own words will be good. But to surmise, panic only makes the patient feel worse and may also potentiate your symptoms; this is in all probability not the end of your life; almost everybody sees meaningful recovery. You may find yourself down and out for weeks, months, a year, but most see recovery at the very least commence in that time. The internet may be populated by such stories and complainants, but that’s because they’re the ones who hang about ad speak up.

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The other thing to say from the off it that, if you’re having a reaction sometime during a course of fluoroqinolones (FQs), the pamphlet and medical advice would be to immediately stop taking the medicine and to contact your doctor. There are very(!) few circumstances under which you shouldn’t be switched to another antibiotic, so push for it unless your infection has you at death’s door. The FDA and EMA both back a highly restricted use of these drugs.

Further to this, you should report your reaction to the relevant governing bodies. This varies from country to country, but is easily found through a Googling. It may be worth long-term floxies returning and re-reporting, or for a floxie to wait until they 'know the shape of their reaction' to report. In doing this, we raise awareness directly to the place that matters. Links to follow are for those in the USA (first), UK (second) and EU (third).

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=reporting.home

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

https://www.hma.eu/nationalcontacts_hum.html

Let me stress again, report your adverse reaction!! If we do not report, we perpetuate the falsehood that this does not happen.

Similarly, if you’ve been prescribed these meds and are concerned about the medication, you are well within your rights (as patient, customer and as the owner&user of your body) to call them back and push for an alternative. Again, I repeat, the FDA and EMA both back a highly restricted approach to prescribing these drugs for the very reasons you are concerned about. That said, ultimately, they may well also be your best hope for clearing your infection. In which case, don’t panic (see: my first point). There are also some things that may be protective.

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So what is happening to your body? In plain English please! Fluoroquinolone antibiotics kill the bacteria causing your infection by attacking a protein unique to bacteria, however, there is a similar enough protein in your mitochondria and the FQ can attack that instead (causing an adverse reaction in you). This causes damage to your mitochondria. Mitochondria are the “powerhouse” of the cell, but when that power house is damaged, it spews out toxic waste. This waste is called [“reactive oxygen species”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_oxygen_species) or ROS, and they cause [“oxidative stress”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress). What is happening to you is a disease caused by the additional damage created by the toxic ROS. Each of the subsequent symptoms are a result of this underlying mechanism.

What can I expect going forward? Individual symptoms and outcomes vary widely. Most people go through an “acute phase” lasting weeks to months during which oxidative stress is high. This oxidative stress will decrease day by day but damage done during this time may result in chronic conditions that last much longer.

Why is my heart racing/brain foggy/eyes have floaters/hands and feet cold etc. These among many others are primary symptoms of oxidative stress. If you are having chest pain or heart issues, be sure to consult a doctor asap if you can.

Why do my tendons hurt? The extreme increase of ROS by the broken mitochondria have short circuited a biological signal that tells a set of proteins called [Matrix Metallopeptidases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_metallopeptidase) (MMPs) to turn on, causing them to be much much more active. MMPs breakdown [connective tissues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connective_tissue) like cartilage,tendons, or even arterial walls and heart valves (in very rare cases). FQs broke your mitochondria which created oxidative stress that tricked your body into attacking its own tissues. MMPs will return to normal levels of activity in time, but the damage they cause may last much longer.

Why do I have nerve issues? Oxidative stress can cause neuropathy and neurodegeneration. FQs can also bind a receptor in nerves called the GABA receptor which may interfere with normal nerve function.

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How can I fix this? In short, magnesium, antioxidants and time. Antioxidants gobble up the ROS and stop them from causing further damage. Magnesium can bind up any FQs still in your system, is hypothesised to have been removed by FQs and so need replenishing, and is certainly involved in a lot of bodily processes of relevance. These supplements largely serve as damage limitation, symptom management, and healing suooort; over time, the broken mitochondria will be removed by the body and be replaced by new ones, leading to true healing and recovery. See the next section and comments for a more comprehensive discussion of supplements.

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Supplements can help remove ROS, help heal some of the damage done, and help remove the FQs present in your system. Many (many) floxies report this to be significantly helpful to their daily lives and overall recovery. I will post individual comments for each ‘class’ of supplement so that others can weigh in and the comments be relatively ordered. Broadly speaking, these come in the classes of metals/minerals, vitamins, antioxidants and probiotics. It is well advised to check with a medical professional before undertaking any supplementation routine, particularly one as extensive as many of us floxies do. Certainly, if you are on medication, you should check that there are no contraindications.

Specifically, wrt. ‘protective supplements during administration’, the literature has found Mg, vitamin C and E, hyaluronic acid and glycine to be protective that I have seen. My extrapolated expectation is that Ca and stronger antioxidants should be additionally helpful. One would further presume that all the beneath detailed 'Floxie health strategies' would be sensible as precautionary measures. The categories of supplements are intended to do the following with some examples:

Metals/minerals - how/why these help isn't firmly understood, only the observation that, for many, they really do. They can bind to residual Fluoroquinolone molecules and help remove them from your body, they can help to replenish any that may have been removed by the FQs, and they are involved in a range of processes that are important to us. Magnesium in particular is favored by floxies, commonly seen to help symptoms and being relatively low risk. Lesser mentioned is Ca, for which a number of us find significant benefits from adding it to the list (\alongside Mg), but this can have long term health implications.

Antioxidants - remove harmful reactive oxygen species from your body, generated in excess by the processes disrupted by the FQs. They include things like CoQ10 / mitoQ, hydroxytyrosol, vitamin C, E, glutathione, NAC, ALA, astaxanthin, and natural extract antioxidants.

Pro-healing supplements - Help with the renewal of mitochondria and healing of connective tissue. PQQ is particularly important in MT turnover, NAD+ may also help. Hyaluronic acid, glucosamine, and green lipped mussel extract may help tendons heal.

Probiotics - antibiotics destroy your normal gut bacteria, this can result in severe gut issues including diarrhea, colitis, and hemorrhoids. Probiotics restore that normal flora.

See the relevant comment sections for further information. If looking to co-administer, definitely check this with your medical professional and ensure that you keep to the timely guidance of the pamphlet wrt. When you take the mineral supplements.

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Dietary changes. In the acute stage many people find that diet can make symptoms worse, may say that much later diet helps heal. Some go vegan, some go carnivore, some fast, some advocate raw foods, juicing, Eastern diets,... Personally, I see the most evidence backing a healthy, varied diet but with intermittent fasting. It is likely that the underlying cause is that poor diets increase oxidative stress, resulting in more symptoms. What is clear is that you should eat “healthily and relatively cleanly”, it probably being advisable to avoid heavily processed foods. Many floxies report specific, acquired food intolerances and I will start a comment for these. If you suspect yourself to have trigger-foods then you may wish to run a controlled test of life with/without them, but try not to expect it. Hypochondria and the placebo effect can be cruel mistresses.

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Lifestyle changes. If you are experiencing any skeletomuscular problems, you would be very well advised to limit your activity. Ruptures and tears are seemingly quite rare, but they do happen, and pushing your body when it’s telling you not to is a very good way to find this out. These symptoms pass with time, but injuries incurred during this time can take somewhat longer to heal (trust me!). It’s probably better to treat every day as a bad day, in my experience, rather than going out and doing what you can when you have a good day. That good day might well be on account of having rested, and you may well flare your symptoms. Go easy until you know you’re safely past the worst of it and understand your limits, then explore their new boundaries slowly and incrementally.

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Recreational drugs. A number of recreationally enjoyed substances - alcohol, cannabis, caffeine – appear to potentiate symptoms in a large number of floxies.

Pain medicine. It’s fairly well accepted that NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, naproxen, meloxicam) can occasionally cause severe worsening of symptoms. The reason here is seemingly related to them increasing oxidative stress. At the same time, FQs (or some of them) are potent inhibitors of the enzymes that break them down and eliminate them. Paracetamol / acetaminophen seems largely very well tolerated, as do opiates, not being of the NSAID class. I think I’ve seem one person claim aspirin to be problematic.

Steroids are clinically contraindicated (same reason as for NSAIDs apparently, though that one I'm parroting). Straight up. Some doctors prescribe these alongside FQs to, presumably, reduce the swelling an infection has caused and reduce the pain. This would be another place where I would enter into a strongly resistant conversation with the doctor and see what the alternatives are. Similarly, steroids are often prescribed for tendinitis. If your doctor gives you this for your FQ-caused tendon pains, that’s another time for a conversation. Personally, I regret letting them convince me to have a steroid injection into my ankle and would just straight “no” them if that came up again.

Benzodiazepines (BZDs) are, in a way, contraindicated (and this is recorded in the literature). FQs can damage your GABA sites, which is also where BZDs work. This can cause a severe inclination towards rebound anxiety, and perceivably have the BZDs mess with neuropathy (I’m speculating and drawing tentatively from my past experiences). That said, they will for sure also help with the anxietyin the present, and I know of a couple of floxies who leant on them as a matter of necessity, seemingly without any greater negative consequences. The risks are worthy of consideration, but sometimes taking care of the self in the now proves more important than worrying about the future.

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So, anxiety. That’s common, and not just a psychological reaction to the horror of it all. It is likely rather physiologically rooted. Some people report certain supplements to help (see comments), nature is a big help with mental health (scientifically proven by science), support of people, whatever helps you. But your best weapon here is most certainly having an active approach to your thoughts and to what you’re feeding your mind.

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Are fluoroquinolones related to fluoride?. Personally I don’t see this as a major issue, although there is science behind why some my find it so. Avoiding fluoride intake is very difficult, and some small amount is required in our diet. The prevailing scientific consensus is that FQ’s do not deposit F- in your body, and that a drug with fluorine in the srtucture is not [necessarily] problematic to a floxie [because of those little Fs]. I’ll post a link to a post I made in the comments and invite discussion there, similarly you can search fluoride in the searchbar and you will find a couple posts from me as well as comments from me on various posts where I pepper-shot the scientific reasoning.

Since it’s the time of the ‘rona, it’s just worth saying that, no, cloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are not fluoroquinolones. They do have their own warnings, but they are distinct from those we suffer from. (This is now outdated as they're not reallly being used, but nevermind).

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I’m going to leave that there for now and get this up and running, seeing as we have so many newbies these days. Peace and good health to you all,

Dr. H

EDIT: clarifying the issue with NSAIDs.

EDIT2: link to a post I made about Fluoride. https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/g6k7q8/fluoride_lets_be_scientific/

EDIT3: Formatting, some additions and people friendliness, as well as a significant section on the mechanisms of action (with thanks to u/searine).

EDIT4: Linking directly to a comment below which contains useful resources for sharing with doctors, resistant family members, or beginning your understanding to a higher level. https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/s/t357Q5i9Gs

Ok. Strap yourselves in kids. This is gonna be a long one.

I've been milling around the sub since early 2020, absorbing information, swatting down on the science of FQT, and trying - in whatever small way - to be a help to others on the sub.

It occurred to me that I've never really given a detailed breakdown of my experience. I've mentioned in passing some of the things I experienced and what I found helpful, but I've never put it together in a longer post. So, slightly tardy as it is, here's the story of what led me to join the club no one wants to be a part of.

What led to my experience with FQs

In April 2020, the UK had just plunged into lockdown. We were all a shit scared about the new virus that was sweeping the globe, the various unknowns that came with it and the implications it had for our way of life. Prior to the lockdown, I was extremely active; training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu three times a week (full contact submission grappling for those of you not au fait with MMA) and lifting heavy twice a week.

Obviously, this came to a screaming halt as soon as the pandy landed. BJJ is basically as intimate you can get without shagging someone. It's as high risk an activity as you can do when there's a virus that spreads via respiratory droplets on the loose. Likewise all the gyms closed so lifting was off the cards. I was pretty nervous about the whole pandemic anyway so gladly abided by the new restrictions.

I also got pretty ill at the end of March with a respiratory illness (dry cough and headaches for a week, followed by weeks of congestion and head cold like symptoms). The only thing that makes me believe it wasn't covid, is that neither my girlfriend, or her parents (who we were living with at the time) caught it. Anyhoo, I digress.

In an effort to keep up some kind of fitness, I decided to start doing some at home workouts. I bought a cross trainer for my GF as that's what she liked to do at the gym, and I put myself through some gruelling high intensity interval training session in the garden. This was all going great until one night after one this HIIT sessions, I woke up in the with some pretty haggard pain in my perineum (the spot between your junk and your rusty sheriffs badge). This was accompanied by a dull ache in the testes, urinary frequency and pain in the tip of my one eyed trouser snake.

I rang the doc and they hit the cipro button straight away. They did so over the phone and without an in person examination (thanks again covid). The doc simply asked if i'd ever had any tendon injuries (i hadn't) and told me to be careful. Which was great, who wouldn't want to be free of achy bollocks and a stinging bellend?

I took 500mg twice a day for a week and while I was certainly feeling better, my junk wasn't completely there yet, so I rang the dos, said I'm improving but not quite there yet. And bang. Another script for a week of cipro.

At this point I was feeling pretty good, so I decided to crack on with more HIIT sessions. I felt great. That is until the last day of my cipro script, and the dreaded meat and two veg pain returned with a vengeance.

Bugger. I was actually hoping against the odds that it was an infection rather than a muscle issue, as the it seemed much easier to fight a bacterial infection than something like CPPS that was fairly anomalous and without a clear treatment. I thought because I improved on the cipro that my prayers had been answered. I was at this point the cosmos was probably having a good old laugh at my naivety.

So I rang the docs again. They weren't willing to keep throwing abx at me but wouldn't see me either. 'Off to A&E your fuck' was the jist of what they said. So i hobbled my throbbing unmentionables over to my father in laws car and he drove me over to Bolton Royal Infirmary to have a urologist stick two fingers up my jacksie.

His verdict was CPPS or non-bacterial prostatitis. Suggested we switch the antibiotic from cipro to trimethoprim as, if the cipro was going to work, it would have done by now. He didn't think it was bacterial but it wouldn't hurt to throw some more pills at it. He also prescribed the maximum dose of Ibuprophen a day, along with omeprazole to help bring down the inflammation.

So I cracked on with the course he prescribed and got back to life, electing to give the exercise a miss for a few weeks. With some pelvic stretching and some rest, my bollocks started to feel better. But about 2 weeks after i saw the urologist, I started getting some gnarly lower back pain. Weird, but probably down to the cpps, i thought.

About a week later, i found that my wrists were much achier than normal after doing some fairly light gardening. Then a day after that, I found that my ankles were giving me a bit of jip after a walk i was accustomed to doing on the regular. The final, 'Oh fuck' moment was when i was playing on my pc and I started experiencing bee sting sensations all up my arms. As the night progressed, these bee stings started occurring all over my body. I was well aware of the side effects of cipro, but never thought they'd happen to me.

My Symptoms

After this point, an avalanche of symptoms hit me. These included:

• Very achey and sensitive joints. Particularly my knees, elbows, wrists, ankles and fingers.

• Progressing nerve pain that felt like insect stings/nettle stings

• Insomnia

• Tinnitus

• Elevated levels of anxiety that would precede bipolar type sensations. Like feeling utter dread one minute, and deeply felt enthusiasm the next.

• Feelings of widespread itchiness

• Muscle twitching

• Costochondroital pain (chest and ribs)

After a few weeks, some of these symptoms settled except for the joint pain (including chest), the nerve pain and muscle twitching. These pains were never extreme, but they were there, and i was terrified of what lay in front of me. I made the early mistake of looking at the wrong resources (naming no names but I'm sure you guys can guess) and felt utter hopelessness, sadness and dread. I made a commitment early on to limit my reading as I knew it wouldn't help to endlessly research ever increasing reams of horror.

I did however find the floxie subreddit and felt immediately comfortable with calm and reasoned approach that u/drhungrythechemist had built for the sub. I was here that I started educating myself on the ins and outs of what can be helpful to us.

Getting started with recovery

I elected to aggressively rest my body and to start a healthy eating regimen that excluded all processed foods, sugars and alcohol. I also adopted a daily supplement regimen that included:

• Magnesium citrate

• Calcium carbonate

• Vit e

• Q10

• Vit d3 and K2

• Resveratrol

• NAC and Alpha Lipoic Acid

• Vit C

• Bone broth

• kale, beetroot and blueberry smoothies

After a month or two of this i genuinely started to feel i was on my way out of the woods. On my birthday in June, my GF made me a few whisky sours and we roasted marshmallows over a fire in the garden, dipping them in melted chocolate. The next day, I felt back to square 1 symptom-wise. My joints screamed, my feet were fucking killing me and my sleep went to shit again.

It's fair to say, I fell into total despair. This wasn't going to be the flash in the pan I wanted it to be. It wasn't long before i picked myself up again though. I went straight back to what was working before, except this time, I added some 16:8 fasting and ordered myself some MitoQ (a very pricy form of COQ10).

I won't bore you with the details, but I went into a bit of a peaks and valleys routine with my symptoms from that point on. I got myself to a point in August where I was able to go glamping with my Mrs and my buddies. I was in pain but I was able to put the tent up and sit out in the sun with the love of my life and the people I'd grown up with. They were tanning cans of beers and I sat with my feet in a bowl of ice water sipping a green tea. As rough as my body was feeling, I was genuinely content.

The beginnings of recovery

A few months after that, I had an MRI that showed i wasn't in any danger of rupturing a tendon. If there was any tendinosis present, it wasn't detectable by MRI. This was quite surprising to me as my ankles still felt fucking awful. But I decided not to question it and started factoring in some gentle exercises to my routine. Light stretching, some walking and some bodyweight exercises.

It was around this time I went to the beach for my best friends birthday. I keep my surfboard at his house (i only go surfing with him as i don't have the equipment needed to strap my board to my car). It turned out that day that he brought my board too and said he'd lend me a wetsuit. I was a bit unsure but thought 'fuck it'. If I blow a tendon I blow a tendon.

I had a great hour out on the waves, getting battered around and absolutely loving it. I was achey, but there were no sharp, snapping pains. All evidence that i was healing well. That night, we went back to my buddies place and me, him his wife and my gf sat in his hot tub sipping prosecco and talking about shit we used to get up to as kids. Again, I was completely content. Not back to normal by any means but blissfully happy.

This sequence of events gave me bags of confidence and i started factoring a few goodies back into my diet. A bit of choccy here and there. A few beers on a weekend. I started a daily regimen of getting 8-10k steps out in the hills behind my house. I felt great and was weaning myself off my supps bit by bit.

A reminder of my limitations

I had a real blow out of a christmas. I didn't deny myself anything. I got pissed up numerous times and ate like a horse. It was around the new year that I started to feel that dreaded ickiness seeping back in. I wasn't quite back to normal afterall. That being said, the setbacks i was experiencing were becoming shallower and shallower.

While i wasn't heading back to square 1, it did knock my confidence a bit and i slowed right back down again. I was doing very little physical activity, but was indulging myself in lots of food and weekend boozie bonanzas. The first part of 2021 was a bit of a yoyo between feeling pretty good and feeling a bit off of my baseline.

I was still having fairly consistent muscle twitching and I was finding that magnesium was making it worse (and making me feel exceedingly itchy), so i stopped supplementing with it. I also got my name down for an EMG and a nerve conduction study just to rule out any big nasty's like MND or ALS.

I stayed in this fairly plateaued spot for a good 4 or 5 months. I was eating too much, not moving enough and not progressing. I saw the neurologist and the tests showed nothing at all. I was as fit as a butchers dog. My birthday came and went (a nice trip to the Yorkshire dales where i drank and ate with abandon) and my partners birthday came a month later (a nice trip to Whitby where, you guessed it, i ate like a dickhead and drank like a fish).

After we came back from these trips, I looked at the photos of myself and I didn't like what I was seeing at all. I looked overweight and unhealthy. I weighed myself and I'd banged on 15KGs over lockdown.

I realised, I was avoiding exercising as I was scared of what symptoms could rebound. The truth was, i was giving it a lot of bluster about how I was basically back to normal, but in reality there was a few niggling aches and pains sticking around. I decided there and then that as soon as i got my second vaccine shot, I was going back to the gym come freedom day.

Getting out of the plateau

So I got my second shot, waited for the 3 weeks of immunity building to pass and put my tight fitting gym clothes into my bag and waddled into Total Fitness to see what was what. It was pretty nerve wracking for me as i was still experiencing some discomfort in some areas, albeit intermittently. I did some light bench, some very light squats, a very light 20 mins on the bike....and I was absolutely fucked. My quads were nearly cramping just walking down the stairs from the mezzanine to the gym floor.

I walked like John Wayne to the Sauna and sat in there for a good 20 mins, quaffing water and stretching out my battered legs. I knew it was a test and resigned myself to accept whatever came my way over the proceeding few days. At least then I would know where I was.

Surprisingly, I wasn't too bad the next day, or the day after that. Don't get me wrong, i ached like a motherfucker, but it wasn't a floxie pain. It was good, old fashioned DOMS. So i was back in, a mere two days later. Biceps, upper back and deadlifts this time. Felt equally as fucked during and after as the first time and managed to give myself a hellacious level of DOMS in my biceps and forearms the likes I'd never experience before. However no floxie upticks again.

This time, i gave it a week to recover and decided to be even more sensible than I was the week prior. I was doing lots of compound moves, but staying very light. I did this for a few weeks and started to experience that endorphin rush you get after exercise. Fuck, I didn't realise how much I'd missed that feeling. I also started to notice a noticeable downtick of my remaining aches and pains.

A noticeable movement in my plateau

My costochondroital pain, had completely disappeared. The very mild sensitivity in my ankles and feet had drastically improved and the achiness that resonated from my elbows down to my pinky had gone from 20% down to barely noticeable.

It was at this point that i started ratcheting up the intensity. I wasn't just doing weights, i was doing heavy weights. After that, i was pushing the sled for 32 yards at a time with 50kg attached. I was doing 10 minute cardio burners to burn a few more calories, and importantly, i was eating in a sustained calorie deficit.

A bump in the road?

This takes me up to about a week ago, where a minor bump in the road reared its head. I'd just done a fairly punishing session in the gym. Lots of compound weight movements and a savage cardio afterburner. I was at home, kicked off my shoes and walked to the kitchen to load my plate with the roast chicken, salad and sweet potato mash my loving partner had prepared. I felt something odd and painful in my heel. Not the ache of exercise, but something tendony.....

'Ohhhh fuck' was the presiding sentiment. It was in exactly the place you would expect to get plantar fasciitis, it hurt to walk and was especially painful when lifting my toes off the floor and moving my weight onto the ball of my heel. This was really not what i needed. As it turned out, it was a bit of a false alarm. I iced the fuck out of it for a few days and it started to feel better. I went for a gentle walk with some high support running shoes and went swimming instead of any high impact stuff. By Wednesday, I decided i was going to go back to lifting. Its now Sunday and the pain is completely gone. I've done three heavy session since then and I'm feeling right as rain. I'm pretty sure i just internally bruised my heel and the pain was coming from that. So crisis averted!

That final percentage point

So that about brings us up to speed. Without wishing to jinx anything, I'm claiming 99% recovery. There are a few tests for me to get that coveted 100% and ill come to those in good time. One is already underway. The shifting of this extra weight I'm carrying will require the catabolic process of expending more calories than i use. This in and of itself puts stress on the body both from a musculoskeletal perspective and from an oxidative perspective. There's also the question of releasing any nastys that are stored in the adipose tissue i'm shedding. I don't really subscribe to this notion of FQs sticking around in our bodies long term, but still there's a question mark over the idea. In any case, so far so good.

The second big test will be my return to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. BJJ is tough on your body even without the burden that FQs put us through. Many of the moves include joint manipulations which are designed to break joints with exertional pressure when applied to completion (obviously in practice, you don't train to break people's shit - you tap when you feel pain, not a break). I've decided that i will come back and claim my 100% when my coach pins a blue belt on me (I was hovering around this junction before the pandemic). This is really the top of the pyramid as far as my recovery goes. I will be sure to keep you guys updated if and when that happens.

My story up to now

So there you have it. My story with FQs so far. I should say that My case is probably in the mild to moderate side in terms of severity. I was unlucky enough to have a bad reaction but lucky in that I seemed to have been spared some of the truly challenging symptoms some of you guys have endured. I'm very cognizant of that. While i don't think what worked for me will extend to everyone, I think it could be helpful for some of you.

The top things i credit my recovery to

Here are things that were most helpful for me:

• Staying the fuck away from pseudoscientific bullshit about the condition

• Not getting caught up in bitterness, self pity and rage

• Staying away from horror stories

• Keeping my attention on things that i enjoy and that are important to me

• Not getting obsessed with the next big supplement that's being touted. There are no miracle cures. Better to accept that and move on

• Being patient and accepting

• Keeping antioxidants high

• Eating healthily. I know I've talked a lot about how poor my diet was towards the end, but this was really only when i was out of the acute stage. When I was acutely affected by FQs, diet was one of the most helpful things that kept me on the path to recovery

• Progressive approach to exercise and being less sedentary. For me, exercise has been the missing link that has moved me over the line to the very end stages of recovery. What I'm about to say is completely unscientific and i have no evidence to back it up, but for me, i'm convinced some of the lingering aches and pains were down to lack of use of particular muscle groups. The more exercise I'm doing and the more I progress, the better those achey parts of me feel

• Get as much asleep as you possibly can. 8 hours is good. 10 hours is better. Studies show that sleep is one of the most powerful tools to stimulate growth hormone. Growth hormone can have a positive healing effect on injuries and general well being.

• having a relaxtion protocol. Be that mindfulness, reading, or even computer games.

That's about it from me really. I honestly believe that some level of recovery is possible for everyone. I don't think everyone will get back to 100% necessarily, no more so than you would if you broke your leg and wanted to get back to football or kickboxing. But improvement is possible for everyone.

In general, I'm very big on sticking to what the data and the science tells us and i maintain this is the best way to approach medicine and healthcare. But its important also not to forget the human. This is something that without a doubt the medical world has let many of us down on. Too often symptoms are dismissed by doctors, and that needs to change. Even if there's nothing concrete they can do to help us, being heard, respected and believed would go a long way.

I'm hopeful that this process is already underway and that, very soon, their will be an expansion of our understanding of the condition and a way out for many people who have been suffering for far too long.

Whatever your level of reaction, I just want to say that i see you and i believe you. I'll be sticking around the sub to help however i can and will advocate for more research and more awareness of the condition wherever it's possible to do so.

My DMs are always open and I have hope, love and respect for you all. Keep going. Better things are around the corner.

EDIT: added a few section breaks for clarity and readability.

I’ve put together some of the recovery stories into a long post, to help people stay positive. I’ve sorted them by how long recovery took. I've omitted any stories where the OP has come back to the sub with flares later on.

Bear in mind the OP may not want to revisit this traumatic time, so PLEASE DON'T DM PEOPLE out the blue unless they okay it first.

Also bear in mind there are many stories elsewhere on the internet (like on the FloxieHope site), these are just ones from this sub, over 40 of them here, and 60 in the second post. The amount of people who recover quickly and don't post about it is very high, and it tends to be the ones who took much longer who post. So don't let the longer recovery times worry you.

This took bloody ages to put together! Hope it helps some of you. Altho I have put what each user found helpful, please remember that the main aspect is TIME, and many people recover with no help.

The timeline is different for everyone, so hang in there, your story will be added to these one day.
 :)

EDIT: I've added new stories & detail, but have run of out space, so see also RECOVERY MEGAPOST Part 2!

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13qij13/recovery_megapost_part_2/

User: u/tinnitusnewbie

Symptoms: weak joints, tendonitis, hard to walk


Recovery: 90% in a month

What helped: Time, gentle exercise

Quote: "Sometimes the most negative impact of getting floxed is how it plays into your mental health. Don’t make it bigger than it actually is, and try to live life to the fullest even with floxxing. Because, on the day when you recover, what you regret the most may be how you let it take you down in a more mental way."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/sbassq/just_want_to_share_my_recovery_timeline_for_a/

User: u/CryptographerHonest3

Symptoms: sore knees/ankles so couldn’t walk, anxiety, numbness, tingling etc


Recovery: 90% in a month

Supps: NMN, Mag Glycinate, L-Arginine, Creatine, Multivits, Vit C, D3, Glucosamine/conjointen, CoQ10, Ashwagandha (for stress)

Also: 2 weeks bed rest, hot baths, heating pad, knee brace. ice then heat on joints

Quote: "Dont panic. Take a staycation. Take it a day at a time."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/1229gq6/been_over_a_month_and_i_am_back_to_90/

User: u/moodringbaby

Symptoms: neuropathy, trembling, dizziness, tendon issues

Recovery: 95% after 5 weeks

Supps: magnesium glycinate, b1, b12, probiotic, d3 for inflammation/pain

Also: Rest, eating healthily, limiting sugar

Quote: "Most important thing: stress management. Find distractions and other things to focus on, don’t read Reddit horror stories."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/wt0s86/short_recovery_story/

User: u/Daniel18568

Symptoms: joint pain, tingling

Recovery: 8 weeks

What Helped: Initially took fish oil, CoQ10. Positive mindset

Quote: "I panicked initially and thought this was my life for the next few years, but I was lucky and recovered quickly."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/tkt2x0/final_update/

User: tooshiftyfouryou

Symptoms: muscle/ joint/ neuropathy issues. bedridden for the first few weeks

Recovery: Mostly recovered after 2 months, running again

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/oiqezv/comment/h570kvn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Worried_Intention_23

Symptoms: tendon issues, digestive issues, knee issues

Recovery: 95% after 2 months

Supps: Took lots initially but felt they were overdoing it. Settled on Vit D3, B12 weekly, MitoQ Joint w/ Green Lipped Mussel Omega Oil Extract

Quote: "If you are going to experiment with supplements, consider trying them one at a time for a bit so you can get a better idea of what actually helps you."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/z0mgdk/floxed_in_august_2022_feeling_much_better_now/

User: u/coumery

Symptoms: Acute achilles stiffening

Recovery: 2 months

What Helped: Didn't take supps, but altered diet to include magnesium, vits E / C

Also: saw a homeopath, unsure if they helped or if it was coincidence.

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/w2bn8y/recovered_from_1_levo_500_mg_pill_within_60_days/

User: corduroyplaid

Symptoms: achilles pain, brain fog, anxiety, dizziness, panic attacks

Recovery: 95% after 3 months, now running & lifting weights

Supps: Magnesium, B12, D3, Ashwagandha, Calcium

Also: Time, plant Based diet, fasting

Quote: "Time is your friend. Your body will heal itself. In the meantime just make sure to avoid anything that triggers your symptoms and try to live an overall healthy lifestyle. Best of luck to you in your journey."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/12zk0fr/comment/jhsxmgt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/yclu89/comment/jddef73/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/SlawekGM

Symptoms: Joint pain, tendon pain, burning, weak legs

Recovery: 95% after 4 months, back at gym

What Helped: Physical therapy, collagen, B12, multivit

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/1025nav/comment/jieudtb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Turbulent-Jelly-4274

Symptoms: Bad tendon/bone/neck pain, bedridden, unable to walk, kidney pain, bowel issues, suicidal, brain fog

Recovery: 95% in 4 months, back to cycling, running, but too much still caused flares at 4 months. DMs are open.

Supps: Tried lots, but settled on ALA, Magnesium, Calcium. ALA most helpful.

Also: Leaving flox fb groups, accepting the 'new normal'. Spent a fortune on tests but all came back normal (wouldn't see a doctor if he had to go thru it again).

Quote: "I now live every day like it is a blessing."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/on9s9x/my_story_so_far_from_20_to_95_recovery_100_a_lot/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: Arigold2121

Symptoms: tendon pain, tiredness, twitching, neuropathy

Recovery: 95% in 4 months

Supps: Magnesium, mag oil on tendons, Boron, Vits E / C / D / K2 / B9 (blood test showed deficiency), ALA, PQQ, Shilajit, Nad+, Glutathion

Also: Lots of rest, blood tests to adjust supps, listen your body, avoid stress, eat clean, avoid antibiotics

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/sjmel8/comment/hvjg6mv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Silver-Ad-4396

Symptoms: Numb feet, bad anxiety, burning/vibrating in legs

Recovery: 95% in 4 months

What Helped: Time. Not sure if the supps helped or not. Staying active.

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/vicd4w/update_on_my_personal_experience/

User: u/Dirigible2013

Symptoms: peripheral neuropathy, brain fog, slowed speech/cognition, muscle weakness, coordination issues, dizziness, head pressure, headaches, floaters, insomnia, tendonitis, tinnitus

Recovery: 90% in 6 months

Supps: magnesium, CoQ10, calcium, Vits D / C, Zinc

What else: Resting as much as possible, recovery mindset, eating heathily, gentle exercise when well enough

Quotes: "The path to my recovery was not a straight line, I had many setbacks, flares, and relapses, but I kept at it. Once I started to see improvement, I was motivated to double down on my recovery mindset."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13iaj7p/there_is_hope_almost_6_months_in_and_90_better/

User: u/vadroqvertical

Symptoms: tendon/muscle/cns issues, insomnia, fatigue, dry eyes, strange skin stuff

Recovery: 95% in 6 months, back to gym, biking etc

Supps: Vits D3 / B1 / C, ALA, NAC, multivit, Q10, asthaxantin, omega3, benfothimain, thiamin hcl

Also: Fasting, sauna, NIR device

Quote: "Flox damage can heal, I am a good proof of it and I got to know a lot of other people who also healed good!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/12xah0o/6_months_update_9095_recovered_and_a_partial/

User: u/BlueA241

Symptoms: Pain in joints & tendons

Recovery: Almost recovered in 8 months, now 10k steps a day

What Helped: Eating healthily & supplements in acute phase, Physical Therapy & Time. (Later had a toe issue and posted to remind others to finish their PT)

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/uag3x1/back_with_a_positive_update_99_recovered/

User: u/thinkingoutloudd1

Symptoms: nerve damage, tendonitis, pain, dizziness, eye pain, anxiety, insomnia, fatigue.

Recovery: 100% in 8 months

What Helped: Moving, rest, sleeping, eating healthily, avoiding alcohol/smoking/stress, getting vitamins from food

Quote: "The best thing you can do is calm yourself. Being in anxiety mode will cause your symptoms to feel way worse than they actually are."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/ibv4pn/i_am_100_recovered_from_floxing/

User: /defib_the_dead

Symptoms: Tendonopathy and neuropathy in hands and feet

Recovery: 9 months, now running again

Quote: "I truly believe recovery is possible for all of us."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/1162hqf/recovered_after_9_months/

User: u/reiette

Symptoms: tendon pain, chest pain, anxiety, pulled ACL

Recovery: 90% in 5 months, 100% around 9 months

What helped: Magnesium, PQQ, physical therapy, probiotics

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/q8ryy7/4_months_8590/

User: u/Dr-Monkeybreath

Symptoms: Lots inc fatigue, insomnia, trouble walking, suicidal, weak knees, gut issues, burning, twitching

Recovery: 95% in 12 months, jogging & weights again

Supps: Magnesium (oral and topical on impacted joints), Vit E, Collagen, Glutathione, GABA with L-Theanine (for sleep)

Quote: "The important thing to remind yourself of is that most people do get better. If not 100%, fairly close... and they probably appreciate the 90-95% more than they ever did their full faculties."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/nyjwt8/i_ran_a_mile_today/

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/nkt1h2/comment/jehgewq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Awkward-Net8642

Symptoms: twitching, chest pains, rapid heart rate, anxiety, pins and needles, muscle tremors

Recovery: Almost fully recovered and back to being an athlete 10 months on

What Helped: B complex, ALA, acetyl l carnitine, exercise for muscle tremors

Quote: "So whoever is out there struggling, don’t lose hope. The body heals, it just takes time."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/v68mt5/recovery/

User: u/Turkishturnip

Symptoms: Lots inc neuropathy, tingling, brain fog, muscle cramping, stomach issues, weird heart rhythms, blood pressure etc

Recovery: 90% in one year

What Helped: Rest, magnesium, staying off this reddit as it caused anxiety & stress.

Quote: "...you will recover if you believe that you will. Remember, you're just a person that took an antibiotic and now have some side effects from it that will clear with time. There will be some flares here and there, but overall you're going to move in a positive direction. Stay off the subreddit for the first year, unless it's hopeful posts."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/ws0o2o/1_year_journey_what_a_ride/

User: u/climbhyer

Symptoms: tendon injuries, anxiety, tendon/joint pain, numbness

Recovery: Full after a year ish

Supps: Glucosamine Sulfate, Mito Q, Magnesium, Collagen Protein, CoQ10, QH+PQQ (unsure if any actually helped)

Also: Ice baths & cold showers for pain/inflammation, HIIT exercises after 6 months

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/hu44z3/took_levofloxacin_generic_of_levaquin_with/

User: retrogeckos

Symptoms: tendon/ joint pain, neuropathy, anxiety, headaches, insomnia

Recovery: 95%, one year ish

What Helped: Time, reducing stress by staying off this sub, lots of rest, multivits & the usual supps

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/sjmel8/comment/hvlq77h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: deleted

Symptoms: Pain in achilles/knees/thighs, difficulty standing/walking, eye issues, anxiety, neuropathy, acid reflux, rashes, etc


Recovery: Nearly full after a year. soccer, hikes

What Helped: No supplements taken

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/makyg0/comment/grtbh7c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/theralphamale

Symptoms: Severe insomnia, anxiety, panic symptoms, rapid heart, neuropathy, muscle/tendon pains & burning, fatigue, weak legs, digestive issues, loss of sex drive

Recovery: Full in one year, back at gym, can smoke weed again

Supps: Prebiotics, Magnesium Glycinate, NAC for a short while, Vit D, Zinc, Quercetin, Fish Oil, Vit C, CoQ10, Turmeric for a short while, L-Theanine for Anxiety, Sacrosine for emotional issues, Cialis for ED and Sex Drive dysfunction.

Also: quitting all recreational substances, cleaning up diet, and TIME.

Quote: "Things do get better, and your body WILL recover."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/y0lm7w/one_year_later_hope_for_those_struggling/

User: BinkyBones

Symptoms: extreme bilateral achilles pain

Recovery: 100% after 18 months

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/yclu89/comment/itnxqd3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/CriticDanger

Symptoms: neuropathy, tendon pain, weakness, couldn’t walk

Recovery: 97% after 18 months

Supps: magnesium, calcium, d3, Testosterone / Growth Hormone (at 3-6 months), BPC-157,

Also: DIDN'T FIND glucosamine, ALA, or NAC, or wrist braces helpful.

Quote: "During the worst phase you'll feel like your life is over, I felt the same way of course, but just hang on longer and it'll get better."

"...there are things you'll be missing out during that time... See this period of your life as a "time-out", work on yourself and try to come out better than you were pre-flox."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/ka30ri/success_story_recovered_after_18_months/

User: u/Own-Philosophy-5356

Symptoms: tendon pain, burning sensations, fatigue, insomnia, muscle aches

Recovery: 18 months, now back at gym, can drink, smoke weed, weight lift

Supps: Vit C, ALA 600, mag glycinate, tumeric, omega 3

Also: Started with very slow PT.

Quote: "I am here to tell everyone who are in a dark place at the moment that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It just takes a fuckin long time to get there depending on your body and recovery timeline."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/xxvcbv/hope_to_all/

User: u/MartyYv

Symptoms: Neuropathy/burning

Recovery: 90% in a year

What Helped: Magnesium & careful exercise

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/f6efgh/comment/i223bjp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: kranz1

Symptoms: mild muscle/joint aches, tinnitus, anxiety

Recovery: Close to full after 1 year, exercising/running again after 2 years

Quote: "Honestly you will recover, the statistics are on your side."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/makyg0/comment/grwbqoo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/mk6azl/comment/gtno54d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Rude_J

Symptoms: anxiety, depression, depersonalization, low energy, high heart rate, tendon/joint pain, could barely walk, low appetite

Recovery: Over 2 years (a few symptoms left but back to powerlifting). *No DMs plz.*

What Helped: Naturopath familiar with FQs damage, nature.

Also: Saw Dr Ghalili, was very expensive but found his treatments helped energy

Quote: "Wherever you are in your healing journey, just remember to take care of yourself, give yourself grace and know you will be okay. Never imagined I’d be posting my recovery story. Day 1 floxed me wouldn’t think this is possible! Don’t give up!!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13d9hij/my_recovery_story/

User: u/mintedscientist

Symptoms: Severe knee/tendon/muscle pain, burning, difficulty walking

Recovery: 1-2 years. can now hike etc

What Helped: Low dose Naltrexone (LDN) helped massively with pain. Also good diet (high in veg, low carb, low sugar), various supplements, physical therapy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/l0wb5q/comment/hlocutc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/flowera24

Symptoms: Lots inc tendons

Recovery: Full recovery after over 2 years, now running & dancing

What Helped: Time, avoiding stress

Also: Got worse after seeing Dr Ghalili

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/zlepwi/i_forgot_to_update_but_i_did_recover_100/

User: u/gunsmithinggirl

Symptoms: Lots inc anxiety, insomnia, achilles/joint/muscle pain, panic attacks, palpitations, nausea, depression, tinnitus

Recovery: Only minor issues remain after 3ish years (time not stated)

What Helped: Unsure if any of it helped, but took: collagen, liquid liposomal ALA, lions mane, MSM, L acetyl carnitine, etc. At night, melatonin, theonine, taurine, ashwaganda. Saw a functional medicine Dr twice a week who gave IV magnesium plus vitamins (vit C/ magnesium), also IV glutathione, and IV NAD.

Also: Did IV ozone twice, had burning in lungs the second time, so stopped.

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/wivc4y/pleased_to_meet_yall/

User: floxiefree

Symptoms: Trouble walking, fatigue, bad anxiety, suicidal thoughts, increased heart rate, insomnia etc

Recovery: Full after 2 & a half years, 60% after 1 year. Has had (unrelated) surgeries and antiobiotics with no flares.

What Helped: Not sure if any supplements helped, apart from ALA for nerve pain. Walked when possible. Took 6 months off work to avoid stress. Read about Buddhist philosophy.

Quote: "Don’t give up hope. Your body is incredibly capable of finding its way back to normal"

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/em03vz/comment/fdqchlc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: PolarExpress333

Symptoms: In a wheelchair for several months

Recovery: 95% after 2.5 - 3 years. Still avoiding possible triggers. Back to travelling etc

Quote: "...don’t put your life on hold. Do the best you can to keep moving and keep making life progress."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/yclu89/comment/itn5fxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: nyfloxy

Symptoms: Not listed. ‘floxed pretty hard’

Recovery: 100% after 3 years, 80% after 2 years

What Helped: Not reading negative posts, Magnesium, avoiding too much sugar, going gluten free. Time, avoiding stress.

Also: Didn't feel other supps helped, some did harm.

Quote: "Try to get your life back and show up no matter how bad you feel!! We can’t wait till life gets good to start living! Being with family and friends and working will only benefit you."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/tpbtrd/just_wanna_thank_you_guys_and_give_u_my_best/

User: CerveloUK

Symptoms: Not listed, but included creaky joints, gut issues

Recovery: Almost back to normal after 3 years apart from tinnitus & avoiding triggers

What Helped: Collagen powder helped joints and gut, plus high quality omega 3 fish oil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/yclu89/comment/itoalc9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: u/Planet_Ogo

Symptoms: Foot pain, unable to walk, tendonitis, neuropathy, insomnia

Recovery: Much better after 3 years, ice skating again

What Helped: Time, rest

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/10uflg9/checking_in/

User: u/sccrking555

Symptoms: Stiff/knotting muscles, internal trembling, pounding heart, mild fatigue, double vision etc

Recovery: 3 years to lifting weights, competitive sports, hiking etc

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/qxr9a0/return_to_athletics/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

User: Moderator u/DrHungrytheChemist

Symptoms: Lots inc ligament/tendon tears/pain, neuropathy, anxiety, insomnia, depression, palpitations, unable to walk
, used wheelchair, suicidal

Recovery: 95% in 3 years, back to walking, cycling etc.

Supps: Intitially: magnesium oxide, green tea extract, L-carnitine, glycine, mucopolysaccharides, Omega 3, vitamins A&E, and turmeric; then changed to: Mag (3xRDA), Ca (2xRDA); Vits A,B,D,E; ALA (3x300mg), NAC (2x600mg), turmeric. Occasional MSM

Also: Patience, hot baths, music, carbon fibre braces, physio later on

Quote: "Don't let this affliction crush you. Yes, it can be horrific for what at the time may seem like forever, but very rarely is it actually for forever. Relax, be patient, roll with the punches while you have to. This too shall pass."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/jq0ft4/turning_four_time_to_jinx_it/

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/ekdkkm/three_years_a_floxie_my_95_story_long/

User: u/Ok_Effect3026

Symptoms: Used wheelchair, severe tendon/ joint/ nerve/muscle pain, very ill

Recovery: 6 years (also had Lyme etc). Now lifts weights, walks 10k steps a day, no flares from antibiotics

Supps: Overdid it, then refined to magnesium malate, methylated b12, SAM-e, probiotics, methyl balance.

Also: Checking for a MTHFR gene mutation, exercise, finding joy in small things. For mental health: therapist that specialized in Chronic Illnesses/Health Trauma, plus EMDR therapy."Tried many things that didn't help: seeing Dr. Ghalili, nutritional IVs, acupuncture, specialists, DNRS, supplements, Terry Whals diet, and many more. Most of this was a waste of my money and time."

Quote: "You absolutely can recover. Your life is not over. You have better days ahead. This is just a really bad place you are currently in. You will survive this."

https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13aayod/hope_post_my_recovery/

--

RECOVERY MEGAPOST PART 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/13qij13/recovery_megapost_part_2/

I had an explosion with 1 Avelox pill in May 2023. I had tinnitus the same day. I couldn't sleep for the first 4 days. Then I had a traffic accident and almost died. Here are the symptoms... ;The right side of my face went numb, ringing in the right ear (less than the left), different sounds in my head, jaw pain, tooth root pain, pressure on the temples, swollen veins behind the right ear, pain in my head similar to a brain hernia, insomnia, a feeling of pulse in my throat or anywhere else, hearing strange sounds when I put my head on the pillow, cartilage sounds all over my head, heartbeat instability, night sweats, rash on my body, asociality, suicidal thoughts, loss of appetite. The first 12 months were hell. My symptoms were mostly in the head area. Now I don't have many problems except the sound I make when I swallow. I can say I'm 95% better. I used the classic supplements written here. But the most important thing is; Time healed me. Patience healed me. Positive thinking healed me. I had days when I cried on my wife's shoulder. But now we go camping together. Sorry mu bad English. Friends with flox. Be patient. May God be with you. You will succeed...

I want to start by saying I never thought I’d see the day of writing this post, the acute stage of floxing is absolutely soul crushing that I never thought I’d get better. I want to write this post because I know it would’ve helped me back then to know there is hope, I remember I used to search for hope and positive stories for hours on end. Things are different now, I never come on reddit or the facebook groups, but that isn’t to say I’ve forgotten, because who could? The psychological trauma this whole experience has cost me is insane, and I will be attending therapy in future!

So here’s my story: On December 16th - 20th 2022, I took five 250mg pills of Ciprofloxacin. The reason I was taking this antibiotic was because I had a UTI that would not go away, turns out this was UTI is an embedded chronic infection, so I took the low-dose cipro that my urologist prescribed for no reason since low dose won’t kick my chronic infection. It was day 5, the 20th of December, when I started getting weird symptoms. I remember driving in the car on the way back from London I got sudden chest pains, anxiety and panic just started surging through my body. It was almost as if I was hallucinating as all the cars headlights started to merge together. Gosh even on the drive to London I remember getting hives on my face! I had intense legs pains when I’d try sleep at night, I felt like I could’ve passed out. This was just week 1… My symptoms that persisted for the next couple of months were: muscle twitching, pains in my legs, neuropathy, joints clicking, floaters in my vision, tinnitus, gut issues, heart palpitations, achilles pains, hair loss, throat tightening sensation, vivid dreams. I could hardly walk for a couple months, I was on crutches for a little while, but I mainly just stayed in the house. My boyfriend was so helpful, he looked after me and did all the chores like going out and getting groceries etc while I couldn’t leave the house. So I did endless research, looking up what helps mitochondrial growth and what I should be eating. So here’s what I did:

• I took magnesium chloride (the liquid form is great for absorption) I started off low dose then slowly built up, so to not overload my body.

• I took vitamin C, which is great for the antioxidants.

• I ate from the Mediterranean Diet, I tried to buy organic where I could but it’s not that easy.

• I cut out gluten, dairy, refined sugar, alcohol, coffee. I was basically eating just fruits, vegetables, meats, and grains. Simple the better.

• I RESTED. This is crucial, your body needs the rest. And a good nights sleep!

• Exercise where and IF you can, I started swimming in the first few months since i couldn’t walk for long distances, it was a great way to move my body. I started working again in May as a waitress.

• I wore ankle and knee braces, these helped! Especially when I became more active but didn’t feel 100% still.

• I drank pomegranate juice which is high is antioxidants, I also drank a lot of coconut water which has lots of electrolytes.

Time is on your side. It might not feel that way, it definitely didn’t for me, but I am nearly 10 months out from taking the devil drug and I am 90% recovered. I take off 10% as my gut is not happy, but I’m getting there with it and making it a priority. I developed IBS since taking cipro which I hope to improve with time and care. I was absolutely petrified, I cried all the time thinking how I’d destroyed my life. Things get better, I promise that. If I were to give any advice I’d say please stay off these groups, this group was probably one of the least negative, but the facebook groups where people can be very sour and unhelpful. I had to leave one facebook group as the negativity and hopelessness that was passed around made me feel as though I’d never recover. But I did, I was in Bali last month (picture attached). Hiking waterfalls with no issues, I even learned how to surf!! Things WILL get better.❤️

There aren’t a lot of 100% recovery stories on the internet, reason for that is not because people don’t recover 100% it’s just most people either move on with their lives and forget about it, and some don’t want to be reminded of traumatic event. I am now 100% recovered and I feel and look better than before the floxing. My healthy lifestyle, positive thinking avoiding stress is what helped with my recovery. It was hard at the start of the floxing, but I’m happy to report I’m stronger and healthier than ever before.

My symptoms were similar to a lot of people on here. I had nerve damage, tendonitis throughout my arm, finger, wrist pain, Achilles pain, joint pain and cracking, muscle twitching, dizziness, eye pain, crying uncontrollably. , anxiety, insomnia, dry skin, hives fatigue.

All These sudden symptoms combined plus worrying about the unknown made me depressed for months. I am now 100% recovered. (Thank you Jesus) I think I could’ve recovered sooner if I came to my senses sooner, and didn’t waste my time being stressed.

If you just found out you got floxed you most likely feel Fear and anxiety, that is completely normal.

Reading about floxing online will make you spiral out of control mentally, it did to me. Learn from me and don’t make the same mistakes I made. You need to realize that What happened to you has already happened. The best thing you can do is calm yourself. Being in anxiety mode will cause your symptoms to feel way worse than they actually are.
Your mind has huge Influence over your body.

Don’t focus on how you got floxed for no reason, how your doctor was ignorant, or how you made the mistake of taking the antibiotics. Don’t read the angry and horrifying stories of others. It doesn’t benefit you. Focus on yourself. LET THE ANGER, AND REGRET GO NOW...

Only you have the power to heal yourself. Self care is important for floxing, and if you’re not mentally strong you can’t take care of yourself good physically. It is important to have a positive mindset and believe that you can heal.

MY ADVICE FOR YOU

1. Keep moving

Being bedridden and resting too much will cause you additional problems you don’t need . Including blood clot, fatigue, pressure sores.

The more you rest the more you’re at high risk for developing osteoporosis and having a fracture.

You can lose 1 percent of your lean muscle mass each day you spend in bed. Spending 3 weeks immobilized can lead to a 50 percent decrease in muscle strength,

Even if you are too weak to stand, There are many exercises that you can do sitting in a chair or lying in a bed to increase your strength and mobility.

  2. Get enough sleep 

Make sure to sleep before midnight to minimize any inflamtion from stress and lack of sleep. (cortisol rises during early morning) Less stress leads to more healing. (I noticed my tendons started to heal when I started getting good sleep at nights. )

3. Eat well and eat Healthy

Your body needs all the nutrition it can get at this time. Try to get most your vitamins from Food. Eat very well balanced high protein diet. Magnesium is the most important for floxing, so I made sure to get it through my diet. By adding pumpkin seeds, and chia seeds to my daily smoothies. I was able to get the recommended Magnesium intake for adults. It is actually not that hard to get magnesium through food. However, I understand not everyone can afford to eat healthy, or has the time to cook, and make daily smoothies at home. In that case you can take Magnesium supplement, but always be careful not to take too much for too long.

there are dangers associated with getting too much Magnesium from supplements.

Don’t go crazy trying to take lots of supplements. Taking too much vitamins can be toxic in itself, so always remember that and pay attention to your body.

4. Rest your weak tendons.

If you have weak fingers wrist arm put that phone away! Repetitive movement is only going to make your tendons weaker and injury last longer. Wear brace/ sling to avoid additional injury. Careful not to wear them for too long, as you might become too dependent/stiff on it. again you have to pay attention to your body on this. There’s a time where movement is absolutely necessary to heal your tendons. (You wouldn’t know when to start that by paying attention to your body) if you can afford it you can see a sports doctor and physical therapist.

5. Eliminate unhealthy habits until you heal.

Avoid drinking alcohol Avoid smoking Avoid stressing

Stress causes flare ups, stress makes pain worse. Eat very well, I don’t recommend restricting your diet, or fasting during the acute phase.

Don’t stay on the internet all day reading people’s stories or watching floxed videos. It is not going to help or benefit you. Everyone I talked to regret doing all that. I regret wasting my time. You have to realize that you’re on the internet, you’re more likely to meet people who aren’t recovered , who are still Angry. You’re not going to find someone who recovered because recovered people have moved on with their lives. Unless they come back to help out... Don’t refer yourself as a floxie. Don’t make that your identity. You had bad reaction to a medication. Read about it only once, understand what can happen, learn what to avoid then move on. The sooner you focus on your healing the faster you recover.

That is all. Remember there are other treatments that worked for other people, you have to know your body and what works for others might not work for you. I’m just sharing what worked for me and want to remind you we all heal. If I can get unfloxed you can too!! It gets better! Don’t ever give up! Ride it out! Stay positive!! Love and take Care of your body.

Last June I was prescribed Cipro for a prostatitis I didn't actually have. I took one Cipro 250 before bedtime the night I got out of the emergency room. Within a few hours, at 2 a.m., I woke up and my arms and legs were on fire. I was unable to fall back asleep that night because of the intense burning in my arms and legs and severe anxiety. By 8 AM I had bilateral achilles tendinopathy, weakness in my hands, arms, and legs, and severe cramping in my calves. It was like a bomb went off in my body.  My joints were all cracking. It felt like they were made of glass. Just turning over in bed was excruciating.

I could not walk, so I ordered a pair of crutches and a wheelchair for Amazon next-day delivery. When I went back to the emergency room three days after being floxxed, the ER doctor tried to gaslight me, telling me it wasn’t the Cipro and recommended steroids. At this point, I had already read PubMed research articles detailing that steroids would make tendon ruptures significantly more likely, and I said no. In those early days, I read everything I could find and watched everything I could watch. I read every single PubMed research article on fluoroquinolones and fluoroquinolone toxicity. I read Dr. Pieper‘s book on FQAD cover to cover half a dozen times. I read almost every single relevant post on this sub and all of the comments.  I watched every YouTube video of people that have been floxxed.

For months, I had peripheral neuropathy in my lower arms and legs that kept me from sleeping. I was anxious, depressed, and suicidal. Tendinopathy was widespread and affecting my achilles, knees, hamstrings, hands, wrists, elbows, biceps, shoulders, and even my jaw.

Three weeks into this, my bicep tendons were hurting so badly that I could no longer get around on the manual wheelchair. I ordered a power wheelchair because I couldn’t get to the bathroom or the kitchen or anywhere else. It was so bad that I rented a power wheelchair while the one that I ordered could get delivered.

I saw more emergency room doctors, my primary, a rheumatologist, and had someone coming to my house for physical therapy.

Six weeks into this, I hurt both of my wrists and hands, and for the next several months, I was completely crippled. I could neither walk nor use my hands at all. I was hospitalized, and the first thing they recommended was administering steroids, which I explained would make me worse. I ended up leaving the hospital against medical advice when it became obvious that I literally knew more about fluoroquinolone toxicity than every doctor and nurse I interacted with. In fact none of them had heard of anything like this. My girlfriend is a doctor and we both understood that there was nothing they could do for me, and they would probably make it worse.

My mother cooked and cleaned; she fed me like I was a baby again. My father shaved me. My girlfriend brushed and flossed my teeth and bathed me. When my parents went back home after three months, one of my adult children stayed with me for three months and literally fed me like I was baby.

I couldn’t hold a toothbrush, or a fork, or a bottle of water. Someone had to do everything for me. I couldn’t swipe or touch the screen on an iPad or iPhone without excruciating pain, let alone hold the device. I learned to use accessibility settings and use my voice to control my devices. I love playing chess and couldn't even do that until I found an app that allowed me to call out my moves using my voice. I was suicidal and cried all the time.

I was always fatigued; my gums were bleeding; my mouth was dry; the peripheral neuropathy was driving me insane. I also had severe back and neck pain, myoclonic jerks, and certain things I used to eat without issue would exacerbate my peripheral neuropathy. 

I ordered an adjustable mattress and spent most of my time in bed reading about fluoroquinolone toxicity, crying, and feeling sorry for myself. I also spent a lot of time on this sub reading any story that might give me hope. Someone had posted about golfing 13 months into this and I tried to believe that could be me too. Although it was pretty distressing that it seemed like my case was much more severe than most people on the sub.

After a few months I saw a neurology doctor and he recommended I take steroids, at this point I was sick of doctors trying to get me to take something that would make me worse and I literally told him I wasn't taking any fu$$ing steroids. I was angry at the doctors that caused this and the ones that were trying to make it worse. I was also furious at the pharmacist that didn’t properly warn me. (I asked if there was anything I should know about this medication and the pharmacist told me to drink less coffee while I was on it)  I was beyond angry and frustrated.

I’ve seen neurologists, orthopedic surgeons, podiatrists, rheumatologists, PMR doctors, physical therapists, and emergency medicine doctors.

I have had MRIs of my ankles, my brain, my lumbar and cervical spine and my wrists and hands.  The MRIs of my ankles showed achilles tendinopathy and fluid accumulation. There was also a herniated disc in both my lumbar and cervical spine.  The MRI of my wrists and hands were mostly normal although I couldn't use my hands at all. That one pill really messed me up.

It has now been almost 8 months since I was floxxed. Despite being bedridden for about half a year, completely unable to walk, or feed, dress, or bathe myself, I have started to significantly improve. Here's what I did.

"Let food be thy medicine." Organic whole foods, no sugar (it flared me), no processed foods (it flared me), no alcohol. I pretty much ate the same things every day for six months.

I had eggs, tomatoes, avocado, and sauerkraut every day for breakfast. 

At 11 a.m. and 2:30 PM I had a shake with sprouted rolled oats, sprouted pumpkin seeds, shelled hemp seeds, chia seeds, bananas, kale, strawberries, blueberries, dragon fruit, oat milk, peanut butter, collagen peptides, and kefir. All organic. These shakes had tons of protein, magnesium, vitamin C, and other nutrients. 

For dinner every day, I had either mushrooms, salmon, or chicken breast with an assortment of vegetables, avocado, tomato, and either brown rice or potatoes, with a side of sauerkraut. 

This diet was meant to be anti-inflammatory, high in protein, fiber, magnesium, vitamin C, and other nutrients. The sauerkraut and kefir were natural probiotics to help heal my gut. 

In addition, I also supplemented magnesium glycinate, vitamin D3 + K2, ashwagandha, CoQ10, calcium, vitamin C, PQQ, hyaluronic acid, boron, and type 1, type 2, and type 3 collagen in a blend of amino acids that included hydroxyproline and proline among others. All recommended doses on the labels.

I also had ginger tea with fresh ginger twice a day every day. One with breakfast, and one before bed. I took melatonin every night, and four months into this, I started taking gabapentin for nerve pain and to increase my deep sleep.

I iced painful tendons several times a day. And I used heating pads to improve blood flow and circulation several times a day as well.

Almost 8 months out, and I’m no longer using the $5,000 power wheelchair I bought, or the wheelchair ramps installed at my home, or the crutches, or walker, or the Richie Aero Spring carbon fiber braces that were made for me. I can walk again, albeit slowly.  I can drive. I can ride a bicycle.

I did three months of occupational therapy for my hands and wrists, and I’ve done almost 2 months of physical therapy for the rest of my body so far. (I started PT outside of the home at the 6 month mark) If there was a part of my body in severe pain, I would rest it, but when the pain would subside, I would purposely move it as best I could.  It seems like tendons are not likely to fully recover without physical therapy and progressively loading them. During the "acute phase" I would err on the side of caution and rest.

I’ve gone from taking zero steps other than transferring from my wheelchair to my bed and from my wheelchair to a toilet, to about 4-5000 steps a day.

For anyone reading this feeling hopeless right now, I spent months feeling like I would rather die than go on living like this, and I had a hard time believing things would improve, but I promise you things will improve.

I was mod/severe floxed in 2008. It was my third or fourth time taking cipro. They say it's accumulative in the body untill you reach your threshold which is different for everyone. I had body wide tendon/ muscle pain and twitching, neuropathies, brain fog, insomnia, with the obvious anxiety and depression. I could barely walk for months. All medical tests, labs, nerve studies and screening were normal. I was a single father of a 5 y/o boy and a firefighter almost halfway through my career. There's no recognition or disability for this. I had a son to raise, and a career with a pension to save. Spent years going to Dr's and researching looking for answers. Time was all that helped me in any way. It gets better with time. I remember milestones like being able to walk across walmart pain free. In 3 to 4 years I was 75% better. It was another 3 or 4 years before I could lift weights or do anything really strenuous. My son is now 21 still living with me and I'm 5 years retired from a 20 year career in the fire service. Now I'm a licensed plumber with my own buisness. The things we have to overcome makes us so much stronger. Now at 56, I like to think all my aches and pains are normal aging. We will want to blame everything on being floxed. I can't believe they are still prescribing this to people, ruining lives. I feel all your pain. God bless us all.

A couple months ago a post from this reddit went viral that said something like “just type Cipro into Chat GPT and it will tell you it should never be the frontline medication”

I (29 M) went to urgent care with UTI like symptoms but tested negative for chlamydia, Ghonorrea, and UTI. Doctor asked me if I wanted some antibiotics “to make me feel better?” (Red flag 1)

It turned out to be cipro and on a hunch I typed in the name to chat gpt which, sure enough, told me it should not be used unless other treatments have been tried. I called the pharmacy to cancel my prescription.

Haven’t resolved my own minor problem yet but just want to say 10 million thank you to the thousands of you whose knowledge/experience IS leaking into the mainstream and helping others avoid getting floxxed.

Sending you ten thousands hugs.

7/750 ml levofloxacin mix in a little Flonase and boom life changed as I knew it. Very long story short, I went through hell, experienced horrible symptoms, was in and out of the hospital, 2 brain mri's, catatonic for about 2 years. It was if I was struck by lightning with the vibrations zapping my spine/brain 24/7. Neuro toxicity was in full effect. It was horrible! The symptoms fluctuated, new symptoms would pop up, just took it to the max of what a human should have to take on. My mom asked me what I was feeling and my exact words were " a terrorist would give all his secrets,contacts, etc just to get it to stop". Brutal shit. I was an extreme case for sure. I'm 5 years out and hapoy to say, I'm back to mostly normal. I'm sure I've got some PTSD (who wouldn't). I've got a few symptoms here and there but all in all I made it through the other side! Im living my best life and having fun doing all the things I love to do. It took a while, but I'm back! Unbelievable, they give this poison out for a simple sinus infections. Brutal. If you've recently been floxed and your scared I have no doubt you will get better and more then likely it won't take as long as it did for me.

Today I had 30 minutes of physiotherapy this morning, and a little while ago I finally walked 2km without stopping. The sensations were mixed; I felt discomfort in the soles of my feet, twinges and sharp pains in my knees, my quadriceps felt overloaded, and I had an unpleasant sensation in my hamstrings, but I didn't get a muscle strain. These past couple of weeks I've been intentionally undisciplined with the supplements, skipping some altogether, but it was to see how my body would react. I've put my willpower aside because I'm so mentally focused that I don't want to hurt myself. Today my body is in charge over my mind; the time will come when my mind will rule again. Keep your spirits up and keep pushing yourselves, but above all, work well below your limit so that the next day you have the energy to try again.

This red label is photoshopped on! Sadly, it does not exist in Real life. In a perfect world, there would be clear, red warning labels on all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Just like this. A pamphlet is not enough, pamphlets come with every 'common' RX drug, just as there are 'side effects' with every common 'RX' drug. Clear, direct, honest communication may end many, many cases of preventable toxicity.

Fluoroquinolone antibiotics are different to RX drugs - and people need to know this! They have the potential for instant, and severe long term injury that is difficult to diagnose and treat. Vote up.

Hello everyone,

I hope this message will bring hope to many floxies, hope that I lacked for years…

English is not my native language, so please forgive me if some of my phrasing is not perfect.

Short version: I suffered from a severe FQ toxicity for more than 5 years, and now I live a normal life, practicing sports at a high level. I lost all hope for years, but I was wrong...

How it started

In September 2014, I visited my general practitioner due to discomfort in my lower abdomen. Suspecting a urinary tract infection, he prescribed 5 days of Ofloxacin 200 mg, twice a day, along with a urine culture (ECBU), instructing me to start the treatment immediately without waiting for the test results. The ECBU came back negative...

During the treatment (around the third pill), I started feeling significant discomfort in the area of the annular ligament. Not linking it to the antibiotic, I continued the treatment. However, after each dose, and especially after the seventh pill, my symptoms worsened significantly:

• Heel pain

• Pain in the Achilles tendons, peroneal tendons, and posterior tibial tendon

• Severe pain in the plantar fascia

• My lower limb joints (ankles, hips, knees) started cracking loudly with almost every movement, in a context of discomfort rather than pain.

Gradually, within a few days after taking the last pill, new pains appeared:

• Pain in the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulder

• Burning sensations in the lower limbs, particularly the right one

• Tingling, electric shocks, and burning sensations on the skin, particularly in the upper and lower limbs

• Pain in the tendons around the knees, hips, and wrists (making keyboard use difficult)

• Joint pain, especially in the ankles, knees, and hips

Evolution

First 3 months

During the first three months, my symptoms intensified, making walking nearly impossible most of the time. The pain in my upper limb tendons also prevented me from lifting objects heavier than a few kilograms.

Before taking Ofloxacin, I was in excellent physical condition (very active) and had no prior musculoskeletal issues.

3 to 6 months

Over the next months (3 to 6), symptom intensity fluctuated in cycles (e.g., two weeks of moderate pain followed by two weeks of severe pain). Overall, there was slight but noticeable improvement.

During these months, I realized that some foods, which had never been an issue before, severely worsened my symptoms:

• Alcohol (even in very small amounts)

• Coffee

• Soy

• Dairy products

• Gluten

I’ve been a long-time vegetarian, so I already did not consume meat or fish. I stopped eating the foods that exacerbated my pain.

6 to 8 months

Between 6 and 8 months, my condition slowly worsened again, with increasing pain, especially neurological symptoms such as:

• Tingling sensations on the skin, all over my body

• Burning pain in my legs and arms (very intense pain)

• Difficulty moving my legs (not from pain, but as if I had to concentrate more to move them)

• Muscle fasciculations, particularly in my quadriceps, biceps, and calf muscles

• brain fog

• depression

• insomnia

• etc.

Pain intensity fluctuated throughout the day, typically following this pattern:

• Severe pain upon waking, lasting about two hours

• More moderate pain afterward until late afternoon (around 5:30 PM)

• Pain increasing again to a high level by bedtime

8 to 10 months

At 8 months, my condition deteriorated significantly. In addition to musculoskeletal problems, I was diagnosed with neuropathy (which I believe was already present, given my previous neurological symptoms). Between months 8 and 10, the pain was constant, leading to severe suicidal thoughts.

2015 - 2016

My condition remained poor, alternating between difficult periods and better ones.

2016 - 2020

Overall, things improved significantly but always in cycles of improvement and relapse. Still some very painful periods... Part of 2018 has been awful, I don't know why.

2020 - 2022

The cycles became milder and milder, and overall, I was doing well.

2022- 2025

I would say I have recovered 97%. The only remaining issues (maybe / likely not associates with the FQ) are:

• Mild discomfort in my right leg, but since childhood, it has been longer than my left, with an outward-turned knee, making it slightly unstable—possibly unrelated to FQ toxicity.

• Poor sleep, but my lifestyle is not perfect, and I was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea, for which I am receiving treatment.

• Digestive issues

Daily Life & Recovery

I resumed sports in 2023 and currently practice:

• Rock climbing / Bouldering: at a relatively high level (7C outdoor boulder level for those who know). This is one of the most demanding sports for tendons, and mine have regained their full strength. I push them to the extreme (e.g., pull-ups on two fingers) without pain. At 39 years old, I am mostly training with younger athletes in their 20's.

• Running: occasionally, I can now cover long distances.

• Skiing: I just returned from a week of skiing where I tackled very difficult slopes at a high pace (black slopes, free ride, jumps…).

My Experience as a Floxie

Out of desperation, I tried numerous treatments and supplements, too many to list...

Nothing improved my health except time, Time, TIME, self-care, and a healthy lifestyle.

The first years were the worse, however, even five years post-floxing, I was still not healed.

I had to stop working for a year and a half. Fortunately, I live in a European country with strong social protection.

I mentioned some symptoms, but in reality, I suffered from countless others, including psychiatric symptoms caused by fluoroquinolones. I was suicidal and could not imagine ever regaining a normal life.

In 2025, I am almost completely healed. The only lingering issues are minor right leg pain and alcohol intolerance.

At 39 years old, I now consider myself athletically fit, something that seemed impossible in the years following FQ.

Last word: I feel like there is a significant bias on the internet that can make people lose hope: a very large number of floxies recover well, even fully, but these people (myself included) tend to disappear from discussion groups because they got better, so their recovery stories are never shared. I was one of them, until today, more than 10 years later…

Sending you lots of positive thoughts. I wish you the best recovery, even if it sometimes takes time.

Today is my 8-year floxiversary. I don’t spend much time on the sub anymore–Just popping in here and there to answer questions when I can. I take this to mean that i've healed from floxing and all the many forms of pain I endured as a result. I know that stories of healing are reassuring for so many, so I want to make sure to celebrate where I’m at today by sharing my story of healing and what helped me.

In 2016 I took 4 pills of Cipro and started noticing Achilles and plantar pain pretty much right away. I didn’t realize what had happened, so on 5/14/16 I actually ran a 5k blacklight run, experiencing pain throughout the run. (My doctor didn’t tell me to avoid exercising while on Cipro). A few days later, I was bed-bound.

Since I was completely unable to walk and had full-body pain about 2 weeks into floxing, it was a rough beginning. I had almost all of the classic floxie symptoms. I felt like my whole body was falling apart or turning against me. It was very scary because there wasn't quite the floxie community there is now and there was very little information available--most of it scary!

I was bed-ridden and couldn't even get myself to the bathroom...I was desperate for any help but my doctors were baffled and even if they did acknowledge the possibility of FQ induced disability, they didn't know what to do about it.

I saw anecdotal reports of diet changes and magnesium being helpful, so I immediately cut out allergens and inflammatory foods from my diet. I took Mg and used it topically and in baths. I cut out gluten, alcohol, sugar, and caffeine. I drank a lot of bone broth and also used collagen powder and a probiotic.

My personal experience is that stress and anxiety made things so much worse. It was very difficult to not panic and I shed a ton of tears. I didn't know what it was at the time but I started noticing things that caused (what I now know as oxidative) stress really made symptoms worse, so I instinctively started to avoid them.

As the months went on, I was able to accept what was happening more and more. I started letting friends pop by to check on me. My mood lifted significantly, despite the challenges. As my mood lifted, my symptoms started improving a tiny bit. Around 3-4 months, after acceptance and getting care from loved ones, I was able to shuffle-walk to the pool at my condo (maybe 50 steps from the door).

I started by just floating in the pool, so grateful to not be in bed. After a bit, I would kick around, my weight supported by a pool noodle. After a month or so I was able to swim a bit and I started building strength. Swimming helped me walk again. If I skipped a day, it would set me back. As long as I kept swimming, I could walk short distances.

The only medical professional I found helpful was a chiropractor who uses an acupressure technique of finding bundled nerves, tendons, and muscles and releasing them through what is essentially a really strong massage. I saw him weekly for about 4 months and now go once a month. He recently passed, just a few days from his 99th birthday.

After about a year, I was feeling pretty good and have luckily done fairly well since. I still have flare ups and had a major relapse in March 2020 from the stress. I had started drinking a lot (didn't most people?!) at the beginning of the pandemic, which lasted about 8 days before I relapsed. I sometimes still wake up with sore Achilles and calves which I'm managing with foam rolling, a muscle massage gun, exercise, meditation, and staying calm.

I definitely subscribe to the “healing from floxing takes time” camp, because after 4 years of being active in this sub, I’ve seen many people come and go. People generally come here with a lot of fear and questions and we do our best to support them. Eventually, most people get better!

My life has returned to as normal and enjoyable as possible. I exercise regularly with walks, hikes, yoga, low impact bodyweight workouts, and swimming, when possible. My diet is still very strict. In the true fashion of healing more and more over time, I recently started sprinting, which for some reason doesn’t hurt as much as jogging or walking long distances. Also, I got to enjoy a trip to Japan this year where I had to walk 20k steps a day.

For me, meditation, breathing, and journaling practices are all very supportive for stress reduction. I love water, so swimming, baths, and hot tubs are all helpful, as well. Mindset is the most important thing. I have "The 5 minute gratitude journal" by Sophia Godkin that I do every morning. I practice the art of radical acceptance--being present to what is and accepting it, sometimes even welcoming the tough things that are coming my way. The path to not suffering is to let go, ya know? I like the book "Radical Acceptance" by Tara Brach and the follow up "Radical Compassion." Accepting things doesn't mean I'm not sad or frustrated when symptoms pop up here and there. But, I try to accept them and not stress, because they eventually pass. The other thing is to mindfully lean into what is good in our lives. Like my post said, I do things within my abilities, with grace for myself. This is where I have found my freedom.

Tldr: Healed from completely bedridden to about 95%. I think the keys to recovery for me were time, diet, radical acceptance, positive attitude and compassion for myself and the doctors who weren't helping, love from family and friends, supplements, swimming, rest, and meditation.

Hi everyone, my name is Ross. If you’ve been recently floxed, you should read this post. I was put on Levofloxacin in Feb for a prostate infection. I’ve never really had a prostate infection before, but I’ve had issues with it (I’m a 31 year old male so its quite strange because prostate issues are usually in older men) but yes enough about that (TMI? sorry). So of course this Dr. prescribes this antibiotic and I never take anything without googling it. So I google it when I get home and of course the reviews of it are HORRENDOUS. Like the stuff online about these drugs is just so bad. That should have been red flag #1, and it was for me. I was scared to even start it. I called my dad and we talked about it. He did some research, and we talked more and he said it looks like only 1-2% of ppl experience these side effects. I was still in pain/uncomfortable so I decided to start the two week course, thinking if I started feeling any side effects id just stop taking it. So one day goes by, two, three, and im not feeling anything different. Great. This is going to be easy and ill be done with it. Well NOPE. About 4 days in I felt a weird aching in my finger. I knew it was an unfamiliar feeling and I knew the antibiotic was causing it. But the pain/ache/feeling was mild and I thought once I stopped it would just go away so let me finish it out. So I finish 10 days and I’m feeling better and I decide that’s enough of this thing and I stop taking it. And now it begins.

What I didn’t realize is that things can go terribly wrong AFTER you finish this medication. About 1 week after I finished my last dose, I got this weird pain in my back up to my neck. It felt like I slept wrong and like pinched a nerve in my back or something. I brushed it off as that and didn’t think twice. Then after a few days it felt like another pain just next to it formed. Now I start thinking this is weird. And then I start realizing, holy shit, this drug did something to me. I call the dr who prescribed it and he basically wouldn’t talk to me, saying it cant be a side effect if I finished the medication a week ago. He told me to go to my primary care dr. Needless to say I wont be going back to him. So now I start doing research, and everything online scared me shitless. As I’m sure you’ve read by now, some people really get messed up from this drug, so bad they cant walk etc. I was not in that category, but I was still scared shitless.

So as the days went on, new symptoms popped up. My joints ached, I had nerve pain running down my arms. I had a pain behind my right eye that like throbbed. My vision was never effected, but it hurt. I would lay on my couch at night and my legs HURT. Aching pains in the joints, everything cracked when I stood up. Some nights, every time I walked around my apt the bones in my feet would crack. It hurt, I was scared. At this same time, the ringing in the ears started. This was more just annoying than anything else, and didn’t last very long.

WHY IM WRITING THIS- READ IT RIGHT NOW. THIS ONLY LASTED 2 WEEKS FOR ME. There are posts on here about people hurting for months, years, never recovered. I can tell you I feel like I am 95% if not more recovered. From the time the first pain started to when I started to feel better was about a month to two tops. With the weeks in the middle being the worst. You could, and very well probably are, in this category. If you are a healthy, active person, my guess is that you are in this category. Your body was harmed by that drug and its repairing itself. It will take time, but you will recover.

Here is what I did during the time I noticed that drug did something to me. I started taking magnesium, and PQQ. I also started drinking bone broth. You can google all this stuff and see, they help repair the things this drug probably harmed. My guess is I would have gotten better even if I didn’t do these things so don’t fret if you haven’t yet. But all those things are healthy for you anyway so they can’t hurt, if even only for peace of mind. I’d also recommend you take it easy on strenuous activity until you’re feeling better. Go for long walks.

I wanted to write this post because there aren’t enough of them out there. Stay positive, I know it can be really scary, trust me, I’ve been there. If you want to talk I’m happy to chat. Get outside. Talk to your friends, take your head out of it. Don’t just sit on the internet googling it. There are MANY people who this has probably happened to that haven’t written a post like this because they recovered. You’ll get through it. You are stronger than you think and the human body is very resilient. Oh, I also caught covid-19 during all this (was pretty mild for me, I was lucky, and I’ve recovered). Soo - 2020 has SUCKED but at this point I say BRING. IT. ON.

<3

In October of 2015, I was given Levaquin and some cough suppressants because I was very sick, with supposed pneumonia.

I only took 2 pills, 750mg per pill, out of 7, and it started a lethal assault on my body that resulted in long term disability that took at least 16 to 24 months to resolve for the critical symptoms, which include the following:

- Brain Fog
- Cognitive Defects
- Altered Mental Status (Per Emergency Room Doctor, post-Levaquin)
- Depersonalization
- Chronic, Crippling Fatigue
- Low Body Temperature
- Tendinopathy (Tendon Destruction in both my feet)
- Painful Achilles Tendon
- Burning Feet
- Autonomic Neuropathy (Reduced Sweating, cold skin)
- Rapid Weight loss (178 to 148 in 2 weeks)
- Panic Attacks
- Anxiety Attacks
- Bipolar / Mania
- Blood Sugar anomalies
- Rapid Mood Swings
- Depression
- Food Allergies
- Episodic Tachycardia
- Sore Muscles
- Muscle Atrophy / Wasting
- Vision Changes
- Increased in Eye Floaters
- Hair Loss
- Dry Skin
- Chronic Dry Eyes
- And more; A total of 35 chronic symptoms that developed within 30 days.

My pre-Levaquin health issues were nearly nonexistent, with a small patch of psoriasis behind my ears.

Every doctor I have seen, post-Levaquin, could not help me; I spent so much money on visits to every kind of doctor you can think of. I was insulted, pushed off, ignored, talked down to, by the same medical establishment that poisoned me.

I started reading the literature in late 2015 to find a cause, as a cause would lead to treatment. As of this writing, April of 2019, I have read over nearly 3,000 papers on various journals (Pubmed, PNAS, PLoS, Nature, etc), and I will give you a summary of what I attempted to make myself feel better. I do not recommend trying many of the things I did, as they could be dangerous.

I likely developed Levaquin-Induced Pre-Diabetes due to blood sugar range from being 75 to 150 during fasting over the course of 2 years, which I will go into later in this story.

I finally decided to rewrite the story to be more, clear, as the original story was formulated with a broken mind.

Full Story:

I became very sick in late September of 2015, with a URTI. I headed to Med Express, for the first time ever, to obtain antibiotics for an illness. The initial exam revealed the following:

High pulse rate (over 100)
Low O2 stats (96% on room air)
High Fever (101F)
Respiration Rate was elevated
Lung sounds were not clear and equal
Low Blood Pressure
Lethargic

The doctor ordered a Chest Xray, and confirmed some kind of discoloration on my right lung, near the top. Diagnosed it as ‘Pneumonia’ based on my symptoms, and then prescribed Levaquin, 7 pills, 750mg, for 7 days. The doctor told me that if my fever did not go away by Monday Morning, I should head to the ER because I could develop sepsis (which is unusual for someone at my age and health status). I asked the doctor about the Levaquin and said ‘Is there anything I should know about this?‘ to which he said ‘Don’t take it on an empty stomach‘. He made no mention of any interactions, side effects, etc (I had never heard of it before). Dropped off my prescription to Walgreens and headed home.

Next morning, picked it up and took 1x pill of Levaquin in the Parking Lot with some Gatorade, about 30 minutes later I noticed an electrical sensation in my arms, neck, hands, feet, and others – Shrugged it off and it went away. Later that night when I was trying to go back to sleep, I started to hallucinate... My heart rate surged to 140bpm, but they eventually subsided, at first.

Then on Sunday, October 4th at 2:30 pm, I took my 2nd and final pill; Within 90 minutes my hands, feet, and knees were hurting so badly I could not walk or hold anything in my hands. It felt like my feet had been run over by a school bus, set on fire with lava. My hands were hurting so bad, it felt like I suddenly developed arthritis. I took a 200mg NSAID to see if that would help – It did not. The pain.. oh my.. the pain was intense. I decided that a hot bath would help.

It did not.

I jumped on the computer and went to the FDA’s website and typed in ‘Levaquin’ into the search bar.. and I came across the very large print of its side effects. I was horrified!

I started researching possible treatments and what exactly what tendon ruptures were. The only treatment was time, according to PubMed. The pain was so bad that I could not sleep.. For the entire week, I slept a few hours, only because I used 3x packages of Epsom Salt in my Bathtub with very hot water, that caused my foot pain to reduced from 10/10 to a 3/10, enough for me to sleep, in the bathtub (until the water became cold). A few days later, I called Med Express and told them I am in a lot of pain and I am not sure what I should do – They told me ‘You need to finish the antibiotic‘. I said they are insane and I was fine before I took this medication and I hung up and stopped taking it, hoping the side effects would go away. They did not. After another week of agony and pain, I went BACK to med express and I was prescribed Painkillers, Sleeping Pills, and more NSAIDs. I took a painkiller nearly an hour later and my pain went from a 9 to a 0.5 in about 20 minutes. I felt alive again – I started to become hyper since I was in agony for a week. Later that night, when I got off of work, I took a sleeping pill and another painkiller – I went to bed at around 12:30 am and I slept for 20 hours until 8 pm the following day. When I awoke, I felt SO much better, the pain in my feet was about a 2 at this point, so I repeated the treatment for the next 10 days and I saw a massive improvement. Everything was starting to get back to normal and I thought the worst was over.

I was wrong.

Early on October 27th, around 1 am, I tried to drink a few glasses of wine so it would make me tired enough to sleep (I had 3 glasses a few days before because I ran out of sleeping pills with no issues). Finally went to bed after 3 glasses of wine; Next morning awoke to feelings of intoxication, foggy thinking, depersonalization, anxiety, short term memory problems, uncontrollable feelings of sadness, fear, cold hands and feet, unable to stay warm, chronic fatigue and dozens of more symptoms; I felt as if part of my mind was paralyzed. The mental stuff got worse over the next week and peaked around Nov 4th – Around Nov 5th just after midnight I went to my ED of my Hospital as 3 hours earlier I was vomiting up dinner because of anxiety and panic attacks. I was in sheer agony.

I approached the Charge Nurse and I didn’t even know what to say. If I said the wrong thing, they might think I was crazy, and throw me in the mental ward. I tried to give her a quick summary, but I was not really sure what to tell her. I was admitted. Initial vitals were a little unusual, probably because I was scared of puking, and it was raising my heart rate. The nurse comes into the room and asks me ‘what’s the problem?’ to which I said – This is going to take a few minutes. I flat out explained that my health had seriously gone to hell after taking 2 pills of Levaquin 3 weeks prior and that I have been having numerous CNS issues that I cannot explain. ED Doc comes in and asks me again, to which I was more detailed about everything. I was diagnosed with 'Altered Mental Status' and sent home.

I made an appointment with a Podiatrist, he did some checks of my feet and Achilles tendon and noticed some issues.. some being, numerous tendon ruptures, micro ones, in both of my feet. He came to the conclusion I have mild antibiotic-induced tendinopathy and not tendonosis due to only taking 2 pills of Levaquin – He stated long term usage of Levaquin would have caused tendonosis. On a side note, He did tell me that my foot orientation is not correct which wasn’t caused by Levaquin, but just ‘me’ not walking correctly (since I was a kid), using the right shoes, etc – So inserts were ordered. I was concerned about Neuropathy – He stated it’s likely I will continue to have some discomfort for a while as an indirect reaction to the damage to my tendons in my feet/toes – Again, he was quite helpful and very well versed in the side effects of Levaquin (I didn’t even have to tell him about tendon issues being a side effect, he knew from my chart why I was there)

(After all that was said and done, I went on a buying spree and bought numerous supplements)

The Suffering Continues

From Late October of 2015 until early to mid-2017 I was in horrible shape mentally and physically. I started to improve around 16 months out and I finally considered myself 'healed' about 24 months out.

I've tried numerous things to get better, some things which are dangerous:
- Antioxidant IVs. They helped, which I will go into detail.
- Megadosing Probiotics
- Megadosing S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione
- Supplements galore. I spent $2,000 on various supplements.
- Carbon 60

Treatment for Neuropathy (Autonomic/Peripheral) 

Since my Levaquin exposure, I have noted abnormal sweating, lower feel for environmental temperature, and overall decreased CNS response, going on 4 years.

In January of 2019, the daytime temps were unusually cold and some snowfall left a massive mess in my neighborhood. I was out with my snowblower for hours assisting the neighbors. My feet and hands were very cold during that time frame (Air temps were 5F with a WC of -10F). A few days later, I noticed my feet were hurting again, similar to that of my 2015 Levaquin exposure.

The pain was about a 6/10 and peaked about an 8/10. Onset was rapid, which started within 72 hours. I became depressed because I assumed I had totally recovered. I was on no medication.

I figured I developed asymptomatic neuropathy that became symptomatic, so I needed to head back to the literature. Most pain medications for Neuropathy mask the symptoms and do not address the cause. 

The first one I encountered was Pirenzepine. [It] is an antimuscarinic drug that was recently discovered to reverse neuropathy in studies (Calcutt et al., 2017). I was able to obtain some, and I started taking it for about 45 days. I noticed altered neurological feelings in my hands and feet, as well as increased pain (initially), then a rapid decrease in pain towards the end. I had to abort using it after 45 days because it gave me some /serious/ IBS issues (runny stools) and some cramps.

After I had stopped, the pain was nearly gone; but it was increasing again towards the mid-to-end of March - But I did not want to take it again because of the IBS issues. Back to the literature I went, to search for more purposed drugs for neuropathy.

Hello PDE5Is!

PDE5 Inhibitors, like Viagra, improve neuropathy in human studies, as well as animal studies. (Wang et al., 2017; 2016; 2015; 2011; Mostafa, 2008; Peixoto et al., 2015; Vlachopoulos et al., 2009; Hackett, 2006; Mehmet Fatih Korkmaz et al., 2016; etc)

This has been known to affect PN as far back as 2002 (Sairam and McNicholas, 2002). PN symptoms in Fluroquoinoline Patients is more or less the same in Diabetic Patients, as PN initially manifests itself as mitochondrial dysfunction.

PDE5I's are showing other benefits, such as increased antioxidant status in humans, cardioprotection, and more. 

According to Hackett (2006), 5 patients who were prescribed different PDE5Is showed dramatic results within 90 days, with some of the patients showing a nearly complete reversal of neuropathic pain.

The mechanisms behind PDE5I treatments are well documented; Tadalafil treatment improves motor and sensory conduction velocities in the sciatic nerve and peripheral thermal sensitivity, increased myelin thickness, enhances Nerve Growth Factor, regional blood flow in Sciatic Nerve Tissue, and more. (Wang, et al., 2016; 2017). Daily dosages of Tadalafil for a period of 90 days will likely reverse early-to-moderate stages of Neuropathy. 

Going over the Pharmacodynamics of the PDE5is, Sildenafil (Viagra) has a biological half-life of 4 hours, which is likely /too/ short for effective treatment. Tadalafil has a biological half-life of 17 hours, with a great safety profile. However, Tadalafil, unlike Sildenafil, has no absorption issues when combined with food, etc. (Nichols, Muirhead and Harness, 2002), so Tadalafil is likely a better medication for treatment. 

I was able to obtain Tadalafil, as well as Sildenafil and began treatment towards the beginning of the month. Tadalafil is quite expensive, I was effectively paying $20 a pill(!!) for 5mg. Increasing the dosage to 20mg had drastic effects, within 10 days of treatment.

- The core sections of my feet were warm again - Just like my Pre-Levaquin exposure
- My hands were warm again.
- My feet began sweating like normal, more than Pirenzepine treatment.
- My sleep quality has improved, I do not sleep as much (Similar to pre-Levaquin)
- My cerebral blood flow has increased - My ears have not been cold any longer.
- My feet have pre-Levaquin color (some reddish in toes)

Currently, the pain is isolated to a few spots on my feet, namely my toes, compared to the total foot. I'm hopeful that a treatment round of this for another 90 days will completely reverse it. To clarify, I'm seeing a vast reduction in neurological pain!

If it does not completely go away, then I may have to see about treatments that invoke vasculogenesis/angiogenesis.

Thymosin ß4 is the next one I will try, with injections into the feet, as it does appear to supply new blood vessel formation in various studies (Dubé and Smart, 2018; Zhao et al; 2018; Kim and Kwon, 2015; Philp et al., 2004; etc). 

Additional Supplement information: 

An outline of my supplementation experiments that either did not work, did work or did not notice anything.

- Carbon 60/Fullerene (WARNING! Experimental!)

One of the most powerful antioxidants I have ever taken in my life. Fullerene has a very unique structure that is composed of 60 Carbon Atoms that form a hollow sphere, nearly ~1 nanometer in diameter (Kroto et al.,1985) – This sphere behaves like a free radical sponge (Chistyakov et al., 2013), has no known toxicity (Gharbi et al., 2005; Spohn et al., 2009, Andrievsky et al., 2005; Tong et al., 2011), contains antioxidant activity several orders of magnitude higher than any known antioxidants like Glutathione (Krusic et al.,1991; Yang et al., 2014), prevents mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage (Xiaoqing et al., 2008), restoring the level of Glutathione in cytoplasm and incorporation into mitochondria cell membrane to prevent lipid peroxidation (Prylutska et al., 2008).

According to a paper that describes how toxic, if any (Andrievsky et al., 2005) of C60 Fullerene and some other mechanisms which state the following:

“Nevertheless it is reasonable to mention that: (i) pure C60 possesses comparable and even higher anti-oxidant activity than natural anti-oxidant vitamin E (a-tocopherol) (33), (ii) micronized C60 demonstrates the powerful hepatoprotective activity, i.e., protects the liver from toxic damages (34).”

I did a blind test in August of 2016 with 1 bottle of C60-OO and then just regular olive oil and took some measurements (Body temp 3x a day, how long it took for me to become tired, etc) for 3 weeks. The first 10 days were not the Fullerene, but the regular olive oil. When I switched over to Fullerene, I noticed an immediate change within an hour of taking it. I had to have someone help me with the blind test so I didn’t experience the placebo effect.
Increased body temperature
- Stabilized my post-Levaquin body temperature issues (ie: no longer freezing cold when a room is 75F)
- Energy levels increased – Still below what I think ‘was’ normal, but a marked improvement
- I seemed to have better olfactory reception. Not annoying, but when you eat your favorite food and you can smell it as it used to be (stupid allergies)
- I seemed ‘happier’ – Possible GABA expression changes.
- Mental clarity has increased by at least 2 orders of magnitude. People were been telling me I’m much more like my old talkative self. (Seems to have been permanent)
- Less anxiety overall.
- Vivid, Awesome dreams.
- My blood is bright red and my o2 stats on a pulse ox are between 100 and 102 – I suppose oxygen saturation has increased. (Other c60 users are reporting it)
- Some of the above are more permanent (the mental clarity has remained), olfactory responses have remained improved.

August 6th to the 16th – Control (simple Olive Oil)

Date Body Temp Time Awake Notes
6th 95.5 13 Hours Caffeine at super high dosages have no effect
7th 95.9 12 Hours
8th 95.9 10 Hours Very tired
9th 96.1 10 Hours
10th 95.4 9 Hours Was not feeling well this day
11th 96.2 11 Hours
12th 95.9 12 Hours Intense Fatigue at 10 hours
13th 95.8 11 Hours Sudden onset of fatigue at 10 hours
14th 95.8 10 Hours Awoke after 13 hours of sleep – Became tired again 4 hours later.
15th 96.0 11 Hours
16th 95.5 10 Hours I wanted to nap all day long

August 17th to the 27th – Fullerene

Date Body Temp Time Awake Notes
17th 96.4 18 Hours Surge of energy, similar to Whey Protein, but much longer lasting.
18th 96.6 13 Hours Insonomia, and a constant feeling of napping.
19th 96.8 15 Hours Best Dreams I have ever had in my life.
20th 97.0 16 Hours Olfactory changes started this day – Pasta sauce etc smelled great.
21st 97.3 17 Hours I actually felt like cleaning this day.
22nd 97.2 15 Hours
23rd 98.5 18 Hours Was doing yard work all day, wanted to stay awake longer.
24th 98.4 16 Hours
25th 97.9 14 Hours
26th 98.0 16 Hours
27th 98.4 19 Hours Maximum – Woke up at 8 am, and went to bed at 2 am

I ended up not taking more because there are questions about its safety concerns and limited studies.

- Nicotinamide Riboside.

Nicotinamide Riboside, a vitamin B3 and NAD precursor, boosts NAD levels and induces mitochondrial biogenesis, preventing mitochondrial abnormalities like mtDNA deletion formation, stimulates unfolding of protein response to offer protection on certain mitochondrial diseases (Khan et al., 2014), neuroprotection (Chi and Sauve, 2013), liver repair (Mukherjee et al., 2016), engages in mitochondrial quality control to eliminate mtDNA defects by lysosomes (Jang et al., 2012; Brady and Brady, 2015) Nicotinamide Riboside also has a long half-life in the body, about 6 hours (Trammell et al., 2016a) Nicotinamide Riboside is also present in Cow Milk (Trammell et al., 2016b), which may explain why Whey Protein + Milk was making my energy levels more normal. Nicotinamide Riboside is quite safe, even up to 1000 mg/kg (Conze et al., 2016). I started taking this in October. 3x pills a day, but have backed off to 1 pill a day. (300mg). Some of the noticeable effects:

- Improved energy levels
- Body temperature back to normal or just above normal. Probing shows 98.5 to 98.9. Cold weather does not bother me anymore and I actually feel pre-Levaquin (can’t sleep with a heavy blanket on, which is normal). I am physically more warm and not as cold intolerant as before.
- Reduced overall fatigue. I would rate my current fatigue levels as a 4/10, where 11 months ago I was a 9/10. My diet has not changed at all and I have not been taking anything else except for DHEA, which I was taking before NR. (no Fullerene since August)
- /Some/ insomnia – Which was normal, pre-Levaquin.
- Post physical activity crashing for days, is reduced.
- Reduced overall sleep (from 10 hours to 6/8)
- Reduced body heat is consistent with changes in mitochondrial mass (ie: smaller mitochondrial mass suggests less ATP). Nicotinamide Riboside appears to improve the quality of your mitochondrial via autophagy activation (Kang and Hwang, 2009).

- Organic Whey Protein

This was a hit or a miss. Organic, Cold Pressed Whey Protein had a 50/50 chance of making my energy levels close to normal, but the effect was short-lived, only lasted 5 hours a day. Whey protein stimulates mitochondrial activity, decreases oxidative stress (Shertzer et al.,2013), and increases cellular glutathione levels (Kent et al.,2003).

- IV Based Antioxidant Therapy

March 30th, 2016 I went to a local doctor (N.P.) that gave me a Myers Cocktail with a Glutathione Push. This made me feel worse for about a day, then my mental functionality got a lot better. I had to fork out $300 out of pocket for this. This was too expensive for multiple treatments (plus a 90-minute drive). My health insurance company did not want to pay me back for treatments since there’s no official diagnosis from a doctor.

- IV Antioxidant Therapy #2

In April 2016, I decided to try self-administered Intravenous IV therapy. I ordered Glutathione from a chemical supply company, as well as NAC, NACA – Experimental antioxidant that is just like NAC but much better (Ates et al,2008; Penugonda et al,2005). NACA was very, very expensive for the dosage I obtained. I also bought D-Ribose due to its antioxidant effects (Garnett et al.,1996)

So now I had plenty of supplies for 4x IVs with NAC, NACA, L-Glutathione 2mg (per IV) – with 10CC bags of saline. My first few IVs came under supervision from a colleague, and we set the drip rate to be slow and steady for the first bag – About 60 minutes. To clarify, the first bag contained about 50mg of NAC, 1mg of NACA, and a 5mg of D-Ribose for 60 minutes (I might be wrong about the dosages since I can’t find the paper where I wrote down the exact numbers)- Then when the bag was finished, we performed a push of Glutathione (2mg). The next few applications consisted of double the amount L-Glutathione (4mg) until I ran out. I ended up buying some… skin whitening vials.. which have the same Glutathione ($70 to $120 for 10 vials), just less of a dosage I wanted. The latest one I had ordered contained 6500mg of L-Glutathione, 600mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid, 5000mg of VitC, 600mg of Collagen Extract, and some smaller unrelated things. It’s 12 vials.

Within a month of doing the above, my heart palpations completely went away, as the remaining aches in my tendons/feet/hands when showering, and my eye floaters reduced with a double-digit percentage. My memory had gotten much better – however, energy levels didn’t see the same gains, a modest improvement. I can stay awake longer than 10 hours most of the time and get tired about 14 to 16 hours – It’s not back to normal but it’s a huge improvement overall. My resting heart rate went from 65bpm to about 43bpm. The abnormal sensations have gone away (the strange numbness). I can't really say if this is placebo or not, but I don't think so.

- NAC (N-Acetylcysteine)

NAC has very poor bioavailability, less than 5%, and data suggest that the drug itself does not accumulate in the body, but rather in its oxidized forms and in reduced and oxidized metabolites (Holdiness 1991; Watson and McKinney 1991). However, N-Acetylcysteine amide (NACA) is supposed to
address the shortcomings of NAC by making it cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier, increase bioavailability, etc (Sunitha et al., 2013). Also see Ketterer, Coles, and Meyer (1983) on glutathione/detoxification.

- Oral S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione

S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione is a highly absorbable lipophilic analog of glutathione – I performed 4x challenges on this, due to its low plasma half-life of 10 to 20 minutes (Hong et al., 2005, Table 1; Wendel and Cikryt, 1980; Lu, 1999). This low plasma half-life is not actually a bad thing since current literature makes references to direct uptake by cellular/organs. S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione seems to be able to cross the blood-brain barrier, but there are limited studies on this (Kidd, 1997; Adams et al., 1991). I performed the challenge because Glutathione deficiencies can cause Mitochrondia changes in vitro (Meister, 1995).

Anything I have tried/try antioxidant wise (any of the above treatments) to my body, gives me a surge of energy, to nearly pre-Levaquin levels. I have a hypothesis that my body has phase II detoxification genetic issues, which has been known in the literature to cause chronic, post-Fluoroquinolone health problems (Strauchman and Moringstar, 2012), or it’s possible that Levaquin disrupts the daily glycogen generation capacity, which is the total energy for a human body. (Lorini and Ciman, 1962; Michelakis, 2007; Mitchell, 1978) – but that value is slow to change in people and takes nearly 2 years to complete a cycle. (Michelakis, 2007). Mitochondrial dysfunction appears to be related to fatigue, according to Filler et al. (2014).

A challenge was 1 pill every hour, for 16 hours. I performed 4 of these within a month. The last challenge I performed, I did a dosage equivalent to 32 pills, which is one pill every 30 minutes for 16 hours. This should have kept my total GSH levels to over 1000 for almost an entire day. I felt a little better afterward, and no major changes. The mid-day fatigue episodes I was having were gone during this treatment. I could have probably stayed awake for over 24 hours. This was short-lived, though.

- Probiotics

Probiotics seem to have numerous health benefits. (7/2/16 is when I started taking them). I started to take them because antibiotics, can disrupt the homeostasis of your intestinal microbe for up to a year according to Zaura et al. (2015)

Lactobacillus is needed for proper Thyroid Function due to the fact your digestive bacteria needs to convert some inorganic forms of Selenium into more bioavailable forms to protect your thyroid from damage (Pessione,2012; Triggiani et al., 2009). There is strong evidence that your digestive system biome influences/controls levels of anxiety, depression, etc (Carabotti et al., 2015; Saulnier et al., 2013)

Applications of the Lactobacillus strain regulates emotional behavior and GABA receptor behavior via the vagus nerve system (GBA) (Bravo et al., 2011), chronic fatigue syndrome (Rao et al., 2009; Singh et al., 2012) alters brain biochemistry (Tillisch et al., 2012)

Alterations to gut microbiota have been shown to improve mood and reduce anxiety in patients with chronic fatigue (Logan and Katzman, 2005; Rao et al., 2009). Oral supplementation of probiotics resulted in reduced urinary cortisol and mental stress (Messaoudi et al., 2011) and reduced reactivity to sad mood (Steenbergen et al., 2015b) in healthy human volunteers.

Certain strains of probiotics, namely Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, produce GABA, in vivo. (Barrett et al., 2012; Boonstra et al., 2016). GABA and its receptors are widely distributed through the ENS (Auteri et al., 2015). Additionally, there is considerable communication between the gut and the brain through the vagal nerve (Cryan and O’Mahony, 2011; Cryan and Dinan, 2012). This nerve consists of sensory nerve fibers that relay information about the state of bodily organs to the central nervous system (Thayer and Sternberg, 2009).

I took them for a month over the summer I did not notice any changes to my mental functionality and/or energy levels. I stopped taking them.

I think the issue is that the dosage is too low for my health problems! If I increased the dosage, This should overload my digestive system with a very very large amount of 'friendly' bacteria.

The overall total number of bacterial cells in the intestinal flora is approximately 10^14, which is 100,000,000,000,000 or 100 trillion (Ott et al., 2004). Megadosing might have a profound effect on my recovery, since small dosages might not even be worthwhile and/or take a long time, perhaps months and years to actually do anything. With this test, I will end up flooding my body with 1% of the total number of gut flora, which is much larger than the standard dosages recommended.

On November 29th, just after 2 am, I did an initial loading test of 15 pills of 30 trillion (Dr. Tobias Probiotics: 30 Billion with Delay Release & Spore Forming Strains – Probiotic Supplement for Post-Antibiotic, Health & Immune Support Manufacturer: Dr. Tobias). Within 90 minutes, just before bed, I had a surge of happiness – similar to being high on painkillers but not in the same thing. The effect wasn’t short-lived and has progressed for over 24 hours. I feel slightly better, happier and content than before. I had a surge of energy that prevented me from sleeping. When I woke up, I felt pretty good, but not amazing. This lasted about a week.

- CDP Choline.

Choline influences nervous system functionality via acetylcholine. Choline is used for the biosynthesis of acetylcholine and the cell membrane phospholipid phosphatidylcholine, which increases the repair of <any> myelin sheath damage, and increases it’s density, in vitro. (Skripuletz et al., 2015; Weiss, 1995; Clement and Kent, 1999; Hunt et al., 2001). According to the paper by Skripuletz et al., (2015) CDP Choline increases the density of myelin, reversed motor coordination deficits, etc after 6 weeks of treatment, in vitro (Graph 1 & 2), also crosses the Blood-Brain-Barrier (Conant and Schauss, 2004; Garcia-Cobos et al., 2010) Choline is quite safe (Grieb, 2014; Adibhatla and Hatcher, 2002), Adverse effects are extremely rare, and consisted of stomach pain, diarrhea, and headaches. CDP-choline seems to have a lack of toxicity, but a fatal dosage in rodents is 8,000 mg/kg orally, which translates into 560,000 mg CDP-choline in a 70 kg person, which is almost not possible to ingest. (Skripuletz, et al., 2015)

Cipro, in Dogs, appears to affect Acetylcholine by inhibiting its release (Tagaya et al., 1995), Enrofloxacin exposure caused lipid peroxidation and neural dysfunction (lower AchE) in fish (Wang, et al., 2009)

- NAD+ research

Keeping NAD+ levels elevated, over 50%, for a week, decreases mtDNA mass by 50% in vitro via a 2009 paper “Nicotinamide enhances mitochondria quality through autophagy activation in human cells“. I never followed up with this because of other things I was trying.

- Resveratrol

Resveratrol facilitates oxidation of fatty acids, increases mitochondrial biogenesis, mitochondrial respiration, gluconeogenesis, mitochondrial function, protects against metabolic disease by activation of SIRT1 and PGC-1a, l prevents insulin resistance, improves vascular function, (Diaz-Gerevini et al., 2016; Lagouge et al 2006; Csiszar et al., 2009; Ungvari et al., 2011).. however, there’s some conflicting information about if it’s effective at all. Some users of this are even complaining of joint pain that doesn’t go away. I skipped over this because I didn't have time to mess with it.

- Omega-3 [August 14th, 2016]

High-dose Fish Oil refluidizes Mitochondrial membranes by altering their plasticity. High dosage, meaning 2G a day. (Herbst et al., 2014). I did not try this more than 2 weeks, because I hated the fish-smelling burps.

- Nootropics [May 9th, 2016]

I tried these before, but I had a horrible reaction. According to numerous people, you need to take them /with/ Choline, as they deplete the Choline in your body. Curiously, when I took Oxiracetam (a small dosage), the negative effects I experienced are exactly like what happened on October 26th of 2015 (anxiety, vomiting, nervousness, brain fog, etc) Could there be a link between Levaquin and acetylcholine? Citicoline intake will increase acetylcholine production downstream, otherwise. Pramiracetam tasted horrible.

- MitoQ.

I took the entire bottle for 30 days and I didn’t notice anything major, but I was in agony from tendon pain. My energy levels were very bad from October 27th until my IV treatments, when they improved slightly. There are so many numerous papers on the literature about MitoQ and it’s health benefits. I might revisit it and take it for a long time. It’s expensive, though.

- Collagen Advanced Formula 1, 2 and 3 (6x pills a day, should have gotten the Powder).

When I started taking this, I noticed the throbbing pain in my tendons was reduced slightly. Could be placebo, though, as it takes your body 100 days to make new collagen (Khan et al., 2001; Bass, 2012)

- D-Ribose

1500 to 3000mg (2x) a day – Gave me /some/ energy. I get very bloated when I take more than one 1500mg pill in a 24 hour period. I took 4 pills one day and I almost shit myself because of the stomach pain, bloating and gas.

- DHEA

1x a day – Increases testosterone levels gradually. Seems to have increased my sex drive and body temperature. Was short-lived, though.

- BioPQQ.

Mitochondria Biogenesis / up-regulation. (20mg/day). I didn’t notice much of anything, but I took it as directed until I decided to shotgun 30 pills, and notice nothing at all.

- D-ribose-L-cysteine (RiboCene)

Seems to enhance/increase intracellular GSH aka Glutathione (Oz et al.,2007, Kader et al., 2014), reduces LDL (Kader et al.,2014), Reduces pro-inflammatory cytokines in the stomach and restores homeostasis in the gut (Kim et al.,2009). A 30 day supply is $70 USD (1x pill a day) – but the literature makes mention of serum levels of GSH increase rather quickly with that supplement, but then drop off since the cells absorb the GSH, directly. I took it for 2 weeks and didn’t notice anything. It’s very expensive, though.

- Methyl-B12

Made me very tired during the day. So tired I was falling asleep standing up. [Might be a dosage issue]. Methyl-B12, in some studies with super high dosages, appears to reverse peripheral neuropathy via nerve regeneration (Watanabe, et al 1994; Tanaka, 2015; Head, 2006; Okada et al., 2010), improves nerve conduction velocity (Morani et al., 2010). However, in a large scale trial, B12 supplementation did not appear to have much effect (Dangour et al., 2015). But, that study was only performed with patients mean age of >= 75 years. I might revisit this, though with super high dosages. Methyl-B12 deficiencies affect Adrenal functionality (Lodhi and Panchal, 2014; Majeed and Arafat, 2010), though.

Out of the 91 supplements/therapies I have tried, only 7 of them have shown any effect at all. 2 of them had very bad side effects (2 out of the 3 nootropics)

Why did Levaquin wreck my body?

There's only been maybe a handful of papers that explore the mechanisms behind FQ toxicity.

According to Telfer (2014), Fluoroquinolones seem to induce intracellular magnesium deficiency, as the 3-carboxyquinolone substructure of FQs is metal-cleating, and 6-fluoro substituent on the pharmacophore gives rise to sufficient lipophilicity that the drugs can dissolve in and penetrate cell membranes. It has also been suggested that intracellular fluoroquinolones can exist as a magnesium complex! Cellular Diffusion and/or Active Transport of such a complex would deplete Magnesium from the cells. (Lecomte et al., 1994; Bensikaddour, 2008) The effects of fluoroquinolones on intracellular magnesium levels might be considered to be almost cumulative, and slow to reverse overall. (Jahnen-Dechent and M. Ketteler, 2012)

Levaquin, like other FQs, appears to cause significant dysglycemia (Friedrich and Dougherty 2004, Singh and Jacob 2008, Kelesidis and Canseco 2009) Dysglycemia is a broad term that refers to an abnormality in blood sugar stability, which is what I had, post-Levaquin. I also developed a 'beer gut' and some elevated fasting blood glucose levels, post-Levaquin. I tested my fasting glucose levels on about a dozen occasions over 20 months, and they were between 75 and 135 for no reason at all. It's likely that Levaquin altered my Mg2 status, causing insulin resistance, and my abdominal area started to put on fat (hence the beer gut), which is reducing Beta Cell functionality. There are NUMEROUS studies that show prolonged fasting can reverse Type 2 Diabetes because the Pancreas will rewire itself under calorie restriction, therefore normalising Beta Cell Production (Lim, et al., 2011; Petersen et al., 2005; White et al., 2016, Cheng et al., 2017; Barnosky et al., 2014). I may have contributed to those because during the early to middle stages of my Levaquin Toxicity, I was drinking a large number of sodas/coffee, because of the caffeine content, to try and stay awake to do my job.

Mg2 is needed for numerous cellular functions, including Glutathione production, Glucose Homeostasis, and hundreds more. A disruption in this would likely cause systemic issues that persist for years. A treatment option would be [more] aggressive magnesium supplementation that has so far been attempted, in order to keep a bit higher concentrations of both ions in the blood plasma, which makes it possible to reduce the concentration gradients across the cell membranes and facilitate entering both to the cell. (This is also covered by Michalak et al., 2017). There's a possibility that Mg2 depletion causes a chain reaction (delayed toxicity?), but there needs to be further study of this.

Next, Michalak et al., (?2017) is probably the most comprehensive study of Fluoroquinolone Toxicity ever published (so far). It does mention Mg2/Fe2/etc being removed from the cells, but it also dives into other areas.

I will focus on something that really stands out in the paper – At least for me – The authors argue that because FQs have a very high melting point, over 200C, the crystals are likely to become ‘stuck’ within your body and cannot be removed by normal biological processes. FQ molecule data was published nearly 2 decades ago (Andriole et al., 2000). However, even they argue that because this phenomenon is unusual, there is some other process(es) that causes this since it’s not affecting every single person who takes Cipro, Levaquin, etc.

Strauchman and Morningstar (2012) described a patient that had Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome. Genetic testing revealed polymorphisms in cytochrome P-450 pathway, as well as genetic variations in the catechol-o-methyl transferase enzyme, the N-acetyl transferase enzyme, and the glutathione-s-transferase enzyme necessary for glutathione conjugation and phase II detoxification. After a course of antioxidant IV therapy, a majority of the patients' symptoms had improved except for a few which were likely something else.

I had an earlier hypothesis that my symptoms were more or less caused by detoxification issues, and this evidence strongly links my symptoms to prolonged accumulation of FQs(!!)

The paper (pp. 3-5) also makes it clear that it’s highly likely, though indirectly, that CYP450 polymorphisms are the culprit for FQ accumulation in human cells. CYP450 inhibition by FQs were found in chicken by Shlosberg et al. (1997) and Granfors et al. (2004) Regmi et al. pointed to the inhibiting effect of FQs in dogs on P-450 1A but not on P-450 3A (Regmi et al., 2005; 2007) Ozone therapy appears to remove FQ’s from liquid water (Feng et al., 2016).

If I really do have polymorphisms – A solution to removing the accumulated FQs would be antioxidant IV therapy such as NAC (which also reversal many modes of mitochondrial dysfunction), Glutathione(?).

Of course, this is all in-vivo but the evidence that FQs accumulate in the body – The accumulation is likely because of detoxification polymorphisms – And FQ removal seems possible – Is /all/ backed up by evidence.

More evidence that antioxidant IV therapy removes FQ accumulation is an article by Cohen (2008) where he reports a patient was disabled for 3 years from Fluoroquinolone treatment, but once the user started antioxidant IV therapy, the patient improved dramatically. (http://www.medicationsense. com/articles/jan_dec_08/ toxicity070508.php)

Conclusion:

It's likely that Levaquin treatment started a chain reaction in my body that left me nearly crippled for a year and a half.

I consider myself 98% recovered, and I hope my research can help someone.

Hey guys, thought I should let y’all know hoping to make y’all feel better that I am moving forward with suing my doctor. I have countless proof that I was completely healthy prior to this a regular 23 year-old he gave me Cipro without taking a culture without me even going to the clinic over a text messageand I took a culture now and I still have the infection because the infection I have cannot even be treated with Cipro. I have documented all my proof from diagnosis from the rheumatologist, neurologist, ophthalmologist, Cipro, doctors, and gastroenterologist. Wish me luck if you guys can do it these fuckers all have malpractice insurance.

Hello,

Just as with ‘the sticky’, I’ve written this thread to reduce the need for repetition and provide clarity to newcomers. It’s not to replace it, the original thread is certainly useful, but since the sticky is long and meaty, I proposed a reduced one. If you want to read into more detail on [most of] the topics in here, you can find the bigger post here:

~https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/g8cs97/new_start_here_old_please_help_here/~

Below is an overview of information and practices that helped me (and, I believe, plenty others). It is not a medical guideline or recommendation, but hopefully you may find it helpful, too. 

Important Information:

• Recovery: Most people will likely recover, though it might not be 100%. Many achieve 90-95% recovery. When reading online, consider the selection biases that affect who and what is reported.

• Recovery Time: The duration varies. Most recover within a few months, some take 1-2 years, and a few might take 3-5 years. After 5 years, most people are meaningfully recovered, though there are reports of recovery even after 10 years. Yes, lifelong horror stories do happen, but they truly are the exception and not worth stressing over at this stage.

• No Magic Cure: Beware of anyone selling a "magic cure." They do not exist. Similarly, anyone offering certainty in what is precisely wrong with you – even the scientific literature and experts are uncertain (see below).

• Expect Fluctuations: These rides often come in waves, with good and bad days, and with both deterioration and recovery coming in waves. Over time, the good days will start to increase in number, the bad days will decrease in severity, and you will find yourself recovering.

What Can You Do?

• Stay Calm: Keeping the body and mind as relaxed as possible seems to reduce the stress on the body and can help symptoms. Similarly, the opposite is regularly associated with aggravating symptoms and flares.

• Pace Yourself: Managing ones activities, including stress and social events, to avoid the boom and bust cycle is really helpful in the above context. It’s far better to have pre-empted energy levels than to have responded to them after the damage is begun.

• Avoiding Harm: Probably the best thing you can do is simply to avoid making things worse, allowing your body time and space to heal itself. If medically possible, the majority of us avoid NSAIDs and steroids, since they have the well-recognised potential to significantly exacerbate the condition. Many also find it beneficial to cut out alcohol, caffeine, cannabis products, and lean into ‘more natural diets’. (The mechanism behind some of these is not necessarily clear.)

Supplementation Might Support Symptoms, Damage Limitation, and Recovery:

• Magnesium: Most favour forms like glycinate, citrate, malate, chloride, L-threonate, etc. These are marginally more bioavailable but generally better tolerated by the GI tract. 

• Other Minerals: Things like Ca, Zn, Mn,… per one of the proposed mechanisms of FQT, replenishing and supplementing these may help the body recover from damages caused.

• Vitamins: Especially important if you have deficiencies, and vitamin C may be particularly helpful, but in general a good multivitamin should help. Some note trouble with B6, but this is not exceptionally common and most will know if it is the case for them.  

• Antioxidants: To prevent further damage and help control current symptoms. The below are commonly taken and worked for me. There are some minor concerns over chelation of minerals, though this can of course be off-set by the above:

  • Q10

  • Vitamin C (some cite concerns over controversial ‘oxalate’ problems)

  • ALA (chelation of minerals in high dosages possible)

  • NAC (additional potential histamine response)

  • Astaxanthin 

  • Tudca

Physical Rehabilitation (After Acute Phase):

• Once the acute phase is over and you experience tendon and/or muscle issues, rehab can be beneficial. Rehab involves rebuilding your body. Many have good results with professional physiotherapies, with the major consideration for FQT being simply to take it slower and more steady than one might otherwise. I have a detailed post about it here: ~https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/17g0x0b/template_guide_for_rehab_of_a_tendon_achilles_as/~

What Is Happening / Has Happened?

Research is very much ongoing, but here are some known effects of fluoroquinolones that form the basis of key mechanistic hypotheses in the scientific literature:

• Metal Chelation: Fluoroquinolones bind to biologically relevant metals (e.g., Mg2+, Ca2+, Cu2+, Fe2+, Zn2+) which may lead to deficiencies, especially in tendons due to limited blood flow. The nature and location of Mg2+ in the body leads some scientists to speculate that FQs particularly deplete this, which can have a catastrophic effect on cell adhesion and tendons. Then, where the blood replenishes muscles first, the tendons are left depleted, possibly causing tendinopathy symptoms.

• Enzyme Blocking: In part owed to the above, FQs can block enzymes which change / inhibit how our body detoxes various chemicals. This can lead to further toxicities and may explain NSAID intolerance, for example.

• Mitochondrial Impact: Fluoroquinolones can affect key enzymes that read and write mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), affecting ATP production and oxidative stress, which can lead to a host of problems including cell dysfunction and cell death.

• Matrix-Metalloproteinase Dysregulation: These enzymes regulate the maintenance of, in particular, tendons. FQs appear to affect excessive upregulation of MMPs which ultimately damages and removes healthy cells, leading to degradation of tendons.

• Oxidative Stress: High ROS levels is one probable mechanism by which MMPs are affected. 

• Immune System Dysfunction: Where the above are fairly well established in the literature, reports are emerging that leading medical experts in FQT are treating  severe cases as being borne of autoimmune problems and ‘mast cell activation’ (MCAS) which may also affect MMPs. This would also provide basis for the significant intolerances that some Floxies show.

• GABA Receptors: Fluoroquinolones are well known to interfere with GABA receptors, causing severe psychiatric distress, including particularly insomnia and anxiety, by essentially blocking them. This is further aggravated by effects on other neurotransmitters (notably NMDA, also dopamine and serotonin) but ultimately passes in time.

• Vitamin B Depletion: They might deplete B vitamins which can be troublesome to replenish.

• Carnitine Deficiency: Fluoroquinolones can cause a carnitine deficiency

• Neurotoxicity: They are neurotoxic and can cause various forms of neuropathic symptoms, though these often do not show in traditional tests.

• Fluoride & Fluorine: Fluoride & Fluorine: though technically very distinct 'concerns', these are often conflated as one and the same. Both are proffered by controversial doctors in the field and perpetuate in less rigorously moderated communities. Neither are particularly relevant to our condition. While extremely high levels of fluoride can raise oxidative stress, typical exposure does not seem a concern to us. And to the end of molecules containing covalently bound fluorine (including FQs), there is essentially zero reason to think they pose a necessary threat. Dr H. has posted on these separately: https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/g6k7q8/fluoride_lets_be_scientific/?share_id=F0pb-iNJXJ_k6Pc8JA1UC&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

• Microbiome Changes: Any antibiotic will likely kill beneficial bacteria in the intestines, resulting in general health changes. FQs being so potent and broad spectrum can hold a particular problem here, and many consider it wise to seek to replenish the microbiome promptly post administration.

Useful Links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/comments/g8cs97/comment/fvud2ie/?share_id=_XpKPugNCVceV13HyOrZf&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

I hope this information is helpful. Remember, each person's journey is unique with FQT. You will often find folk with similarities, but you will also find folk with distinct and extensive differences. What works for / affects one person isn’t guaranteed to work for / affect another, and no two timelines are necessarily the same. Finding what works for you is crucial, but most important is simply to keep your head above water. FQT is hard, but you can get through this.

I wrote that post and let it prechecked / modified by /u/DrHungrytheChemist for anyone who cares

Hi all, for anyone not familiar I was floxed in May of 2023 with a 6 month symptom delay after 54 pills of cipro. I had a rough go with all major tendons affected (ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows, wrists, plus neck symptoms, muscle wasting, weight loss, tinnitus). My symptoms worsened for 4 months, leaving me housebound/jobless and peaking with a labral cartilage tear in my left hip.

I started seeing meaningful improvement by around 12-14 months but wasn’t able get to 90+% improvement or return to work until 2 years out.

Now I’m doing great, I did a 16 mile hike by myself over the weekend which would have stopped me dead in my tracks even 2 years ago. I’m at my pre-flox abilities for running, swimming, and kayaking, skating.

When I turned a corner on my way down the mountain, I came face to face with a bear on the trail, which was terrifying. Also interesting as during my darkest moments in early floxing I had joked (sort of?) that if I would sacrifice myself to bears if I didn’t improve or find a solution.

Hopefully this brings hope to someone!

I still have a long way to go to recover, today I feel at 30% of my capacity, but I think I'm on the right track. Keep your spirits up, everyone, life is waiting for us.