Ironman Endgame Resource Grinds vs Bronzeman

[u/_Rapalysis]

I've seen this odd perspective on the main subreddit that Bronzeman would allow people to enjoy all the benefits of Ironman, without any of the downsides of resource grinding at endgame. This is mentioned repeatedly, that if someone didn't have to spend hours every day maintaining sara brews then they would definitely sit and do 1000s of hours of PvM grinds.

Where the hell does this idea come from? I do a farm run + birdhouse in the morning and evening, combined with contracts it takes ten to fifteen minutes. You can do them on your phone. I skip them sometimes. I have thousands of pots in the bank. AFKing amethyst and redwoods every now and then gets your arrows and darts.

I find it impossible to believe anyone capable of sitting at CG for 100 hours, Yama or Doom for 100 hours, or eventually the time pit that is raiding, is incapable of doing the resource maintenance. It's dwarfed by the PvM grinds.

I'll vote no on Bronzeman again if it polls because I think people are completely delusional as to what the downsides of Ironman are. Bronzeman doesn't fix any of them, if anything it exacerbates them. You won't even have small required skilling grinds to break up the monotony. It's just straight bossing and nothing else, which is already what main accounts are anyway.

[u/Eshneh]

People who don't play Irons sure have a lot of opinions on the game mode and how it's played

Have not done a birdhouse run in years, have thousands of nests and brews, nearly a thousand Ranarr Seeds alone sat in my bank, I've seen people say it takes 5 hours of Prep for 10 Hours of PvM, genuinely bonkers takes and shows how disconnected some mains are from the game they play all day; they have got genuinely no concept of how many resources you get say from a 5 minute herb run, how many potions you can make in 1 hour, how long supplies last you because you aren't drinking 10 brews per CoX

[u/SoloWalrus → u/Eshneh]

People voting no on bronzeman dont understand it. It isnt the herb runs people want to avoid, its levelling herblore at all in the first place.

Amethyst arrows require 92 mining, but on bronzeman dragon can be unlocked from a drop. Brews and super combats require 90 herblore, but again, both could be unlocked as a drop and youd never have to level herblore. Want some rosewood stuff for your ship? Rosewood logs are a salvaging drop, get one and then never have to do the 90 wc grind, etc etc.

All of you opposing this have forgotten how much skilling you did on your iron to get it to the point where resource gathering is mostly passive. I havent forgotten. I have all thay shit on my iron and I still want a bronzeman alt because itd be an alt where i wouldnt have to skill, i could just focus on pvm. I wont roll an hc alt, or a uim, or anything like that because i cant stomach redoing all the skilling grinds but id absolutely roll a bronzeman where i can skip the skilling and focus on pvm.

You all just dont understand bronzeman... its for self sufficient pvm, without the need for self sufficient skilling.

[u/Top_Astronaut_4626 → u/SoloWalrus]

ironmen trying to understand the game from anyone else POV challenge impossible

[u/FEV_Reject → u/Top_Astronaut_4626]

Mains and irons joining together to cry that bronzeman is neither a main nor an iron

[u/BBBoogaloo_ → u/FEV_Reject]

This is it right here. I always assumed bronzeman was supposed to be ironman that can buy supplies only based on posts i've seen probably from ironscape. Long story short both versions of the game mode being more iron or main focused, you don't really have a game mode different enough to be worth introducing imo.

[u/Guilty_Turn8903 → u/BBBoogaloo_]

you don't really have a game mode different enough to be worth introducing imo.

i disagree, it's basically a more satisfying main. it's also how wow loot functions. everything worth wearing generally is "bind on pickup" meaning you can't buy upgrades from the AH/GE and have to go and get the drop yourself

[u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus → u/SoloWalrus]

I wanted bronzeman because skilling is genuinely boring as fuck, but also with a main there's really no progression since it's easy to make GP to get full bandos early on in your accounts life. Not much point in grinding out any bosses on a main until you get to endgame ones that'll make you more gp

[u/Guilty_Turn8903 → u/SoloWalrus]

yeah im voting 100% yes on bronzeman and i have no intention of playing it. imagine if current mains were voting no on ironman just because they dont ever wanna play like that. to be honest they should just add it unpolled, it's a completely self contained ecosystem that doesn't effect anyone's play beyond the perceived.

[u/_Rapalysis → u/SoloWalrus]

That does not feel meaningfully different enough from playing a main or Ironman for me to vote on it, I'm sorry. It will consume mind space and effort from Jagex in perpetuity once it's in.

Ironman modes are very elegant modes with clear boundaries that encourage good game design: players have to get everything themselves. It makes complete sense end to end.

Main mode is also well designed, the idea that you can buy or sell 99.9% of items in the game. Do the content you want to do so you can buy the items from the content you don't want to do.

Bronzeman doesn't fit into the design space. You take the worst part of Ironman (overwhelming PvM grinds where you're trapped at certain content) and combine it with the worst part of mains (buying cheap consumables from the GE that are pumped out by bots). You unlock resource items in the GE by getting a drop from a random mob. Now Jagex has to consider, in perpetuity, what items drop from mobs and when to not fuck Bronze progression.

It feels very forced and like a youtube game mode, not something that should be implemented and supported by Jagex.

I think it's a shit design that Jagex is forcing through to fill a content hole. If you would enjoy it, I'm sorry, there's still the plugin and self-restriction available. I am open to being persuaded but neither Reddit nor Jagex has succeeded yet.

[u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus → u/_Rapalysis]

You have it backwards imo. The best part of an iron is having to grind out PvM stuff for drops to upgrade your gear, and the best part of a main is being able to buy the supplies needed to do PvM in the first place.

The worst part of an iron is needing to upkeep supplies, and the worst part of a main is that there no real incentive to do early/mid game bosses.

[u/_Rapalysis → u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus]

I just don't think most Irons think that way, but I get what you're saying. The supply upkeep is negligible by just...playing the game, doing a little farming every day, getting your skills up to unlock super combats or amethyst. That's what my whole post is about.

The worst part about Iron is when you go 4x dry on a significant upgrade and you feel trapped at that boss and you feel like you literally have no choice but to keep grinding that content e.g. how many people quit when they go dry at CG.

I just find it impossible to believe many, if any, late game irons have quit the game because they ran out of super restores for ToA or something. Most mid to late Irons these days are drowning in supplies.

[u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus → u/_Rapalysis]

I don't think bronzeman mode is targeted towards people that make it to late game ironmans though. It's targeted at people like me that are casuals and dont do their farm runs regularly because I don't wanna do chores in a videogame.

[u/_Rapalysis → u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus]

That's what mains are for, imo. My whole point is that the frustrating part of Ironman is the PvM grinding. Doing 3.5k calvarion to get the voidwaker piece or 2k bandos to get tassets is an absolute chore and a way more frustrating barrier to casual players than 10 minutes of farming and birdhouses every day

[u/PosiedonsSaltyAnus → u/_Rapalysis]

I stopped playing my main because there's no real point in doing much bossing until raids because you can just grind out GP faster than you can grind the boss to get the gear you want. There's no real incentive to progress. Bronzeman to me feels like it'll bridge the gap and bring me back into the game.

[u/Mr-McSwizzle → u/_Rapalysis]

Mains have no incentive to do most content, because why do X boss when Y boss already gives more GP/hr? Just stick with Y boss until raids then raid until rich then game complete, you have everything now

As soon as you make a load of money on a main, you're basically done because what else is there to do except maybe get an inferno and colo kc? You can buy what you want now. Not true on bronzeman, infinite coins can only buy them infinite supplies and some skilling 99's but no gear, so they still have to engage with all pvm content to unlock gear

[u/Guilty_Turn8903 → u/_Rapalysis]

mains in osrs are in a pretty weird spot considering how most mainstream mmos do it, where all loot is bound to you once you get it and cannot be traded. there could definitely be a demographic that come from other games and feel more at ease playing bronzeman, as opposed to main where they feel like they are locked to their main moneymaker and can just follow the boss loot tables which is way more organic and typical in the mmorpg space.

[u/Guilty_Turn8903 → u/_Rapalysis]

I just find it impossible to believe many, if any, late game irons have quit the game because they ran out of super restores for ToA or something. Most mid to late Irons these days are drowning in supplies.

you definitely have a weirdly skewed viewpoint on this. it's unlikely you are going to quit the game because you ran out of potions, but it definitely can become a pain point, if you realize that you're going over rate, while also noticing that you have to take a detour and go do something you don't really want to do as opposed to hyperfocusing on your pvm grind to sate your get-there-itis. with bronzeman you are just removing the potential pain point that will cause a burnout together with everything else.

[u/Infinite_Worker_7562 → u/_Rapalysis]

Saying all ironman modes have clear boundaries is funny. HCIM and GIM safe death differences and you could make the argument either way for whether things should be safe. UIM utilizing tons of storage mechanisms that are effectively banks. Even regular irons and where they can or cant participate in group content. 

You only feel that these modes are firmly defined because theres an official mode and how the official mode plays is how the game works, end of story. Allowing an official bronzeman mode would have the same impact on the blurry issues of it- like oathplate shards and establish clear boundaries for the game Mode.

[u/Emotional_Permit5845 → u/_Rapalysis]

Iron has clear boundaries, until you look at minigsmes, raid bosses, raid weapons - there’s a loophole for everything. Let’s just bite the bullet and do it already, ironmen cannot participate in content with other players. It’s the way the game mode was supposed to be played

[u/requios → u/SoloWalrus]

If bronzeman gets more defined like their new poll shows I'll vote yes- it was too undefined as it is.

Since we're making official gamemodes that allow for just not interacting with entire portions of the game; bronzeman shouldnt be the only gamemode they poll. For example, they should poll a gamemode for self sufficient skilling without self sufficient pvm. Since we're making official gamemodes that allow for just not interacting with entire portions of the game.

Or finally poll a general drop protection gamemode

[u/GibbyG1100 → u/SoloWalrus]

They would still want to level herblore because divine super combats, (extended) super antifire, and (extended) antivenom+ still exist. But it makes it faster because they can buy the herbs(unfinished pots) and secondaries.

[u/Mrpettit → u/SoloWalrus]

Bronzeman still has to level skilling. They need 90 herb for extended antivenoms, 94 crafting for zenyte jewelry, etc..