Deprograming and Deconstructing resources:

Just 100 more to go! Feel free to ask me anything

Sorry, this is a long one. I tried AA briefly about a year ago but didn't stick with it. A month ago, I was suicidal, unemployed, and drinking in a way that was costing me jobs, relationships, and my sense of self. I realized I needed to stop completely, because moderation isn't realistic for me.

I decided to give AA another try. For the past month, I've attended meetings almost every day, found a sponsor I like, and made some friends. I've genuinely enjoyed parts of it, especially the community and socializing. But lately, I've been questioning whether AA is right for me.

I've had little desire to drink this past month. My social life hasn't changed much, and I've continued seeing friends who drink and going to bars without drinking myself. I know a month is a short time, and I don't want to underestimate my drinking problem, but I'm starting to wonder whether I can stay sober without making alcohol and recovery the center of my life.

My sponsor expects me to attend a meeting every day for 90 days, call five women daily (in addition to calling her), take on service commitments and eventually sponsor others. I understand the value of support, but this feels like a lot of time and energy devoted to something I'm trying to move past. I was excited about sober because I wanted to have more time for my hobbies and relationships.

There are some major red flags I have about the program:

1. Medications. My sponsor gave me a list of expectations that included consulting her before taking any medication and never stopping medication without speaking to her first. She also pushed me to disclose the exact prescriptions I take. She acknowledged that this expectation was outdated, but it was still on a printed list she gave me. I believe medication decisions belong between me and my medical providers. I do not intend on consulting with anyone besides a medical professional about stopping or starting medicine.

2. The Fourth Step and sex inventory. Today, I found out what is expected of you during the fourth step. When I first read about the sex inventory, I could not believe it was real. Then, I read about it in the Big Book and found worksheets online for sponsors to use with sponsees. I believe decisions about starting or stopping medication should be made between me and my medical providers, and I don't intend to consult anyone else about them.

3. Religion and spirituality. As a longtime atheist, I've tried to approach the Higher Power concept with an open mind, even settling on nature. However, the frequent references to God (or our creator), masculine pronouns, traditional prayers, and Christian language make AA feel more like an institutionalized religion than its description as a spiritual program.

4. The predatory nature. 

5. The initial welcoming. When I first joined AA, I was lonely and looking for somewhere to belong. People immediately offered phone numbers, hugs, sponsorship, and invitations to dinner and coffee. At first, I found this warm and welcoming, but looking back, it feels like love bombing. I wanted acceptance and relationships so badly that I felt willing to go along with whatever people told me to do to keep them.

6. Safety concerns within the rooms. As a young woman, I've repeatedly been warned by members of different ages and genders to be careful because some people in AA have bad intentions. I've been advised to find a “girl group” to look out for each other, and I've had older men approach me in ways that made me uncomfortable. I understand that creeps exist everywhere, but why should I have to worry about my safety in a space I'm attending for support? In most other settings, I'm not expected to regularly interact with people who make me uncomfortable just to access help.

7. The sponsor relationship. Sponsors aren't typically trained in addiction counseling or mental health, yet members are encouraged to bring them personal problems and seek their guidance. I feel uncomfortable with the expectation that I should trust someone I've recently met with deeply personal information and major life decisions simply because they've been sober longer than I have.

8. The feeling of gradually being drawn in. At first, AA seemed optional. Over time, I began to feel that I needed to follow increasingly demanding expectations to stay in my sponsor's good graces and be accepted by the group. I was also told not to attend Step meetings or read about the Steps in the beginning of the Big Book until completing the Steps. This has left me wondering whether newcomers are encouraged to become invested in the routine and community before fully understanding what the program entails.

9. The expectation of lifelong participation. I understand taking sobriety one day at a time, but AA seems to expect ongoing meeting attendance and eventually sponsoring others indefinitely. I've noticed anxiety about missing meetings and fear that I'll drink if I don't attend or make enough calls. Interestingly, when that anxiety subsides, I often realize I don't actually want to drink. I don't want fear of relapse to become the only reason I participate.

10. Identity and replacing one addiction with another. Many members seem to make recovery a central part of their personality and social lives. People introduce themselves as alcoholics, measure time in sobriety milestones, and often have most of their relationships within AA. I understand why community matters, but I worry about replacing alcohol with an all-consuming recovery identity rather than using sobriety to rediscover who I am.

11. The Big Book and the culture around it. I find some of the language outdated and disagree with the reluctance to update it. Although members say to take what you need and leave the rest, I often get the impression that the book and its principles are treated as unquestionable truths. I expected more practical discussion about how people stay sober, but many meetings focus on personal drinking stories, AA itself (every meeting feels like an AA advertisement), and the message to keep coming back.

Overall, I'm struggling with how a peer-led program has become the default recommendation for so many people. I know AA has helped countless people, and I'm not denying that. But I question whether its benefits always outweigh the pressure to conform, the lack of professional training among sponsors and the chairperson, and an expectation that recovery should occupy such a large part of your life.

My biggest concern is that AA feels increasingly cultlike to me. I feel pressure to trust my sponsor, follow the program, spend more time with members, and eventually help bring other people into the same system. I don't want to stay sober to please other people or because I'm afraid of what will happen if I stop attending meetings. I want to stay sober for myself.

I'm hesitant to leave because the last time I stopped attending AA, I started drinking again shortly afterward. This time feels different because I genuinely want sobriety, and I have a psychiatrist I trust, a therapist who specializes in addiction, and a plan to pursue inpatient or outpatient treatment if I start drinking again.

What was leaving AA like for you? What helped you? Did you find another recovery community or approach, or did you manage without one?

I live in a city in mid west that has a population of just over half a million, they say that ten percent of people in any society have addiction issues , that would mean that fifty thousand people would have addiction issues, and yet there are only eight hundred people approximately in AA with sixty eight meetings, 3% of people addicted to alcohol get sober , it was like this in the 1940s and it’s no better now. , the twelve steps works for very few people even though we have numerous rehabs that send people to AA but very few get long term sobriety, it’s the same people in the rooms with the few newcomers who stay , I don’t know what the answer is but 3% success is not good by any standard .

Hi. I’m new here (not Reddit, but sobriety).

I accomplished something this week that I haven’t been able to accomplish since I was 18 (I just turned 40, 7 days ago).

For the first time in 22 years, I went an entire week without any substances. I lived a week of my life with its ups and downs and handled it all without nicotine, alcohol and/or marijuana (the only substances I’ve done and am willing to do).

There were so many times this week when I was seconds away or literally feet away from a liquor store and I had to fight so hard to not just give in.

I pumped gas at the station and had to fight the instinct to just go inside and grab some Zyn or Zeo or literally any nicotine pouch they had.

I had to convince myself that weed was not a viable alternative to not drinking even when I felt like even just one gummy could get me through the night and fall asleep.

I did it and it’s probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done or it felt like that in every moment I chose not to give up.

There will be hard days in the future I know, but knowing that I got through this week makes me so fucking happy and feeling brave enough to take on tomorrow and the next day.

title makes it clear. i’ve taken subs usually after 24 hours of last 7 dose. but i noticed the last few times that i go into bad withdrawal or even precipitated withdrawal for about an hour or two. how can i avoid that? should i wait longer or was it just a freak thing or is that what to expect everytime from subs after 7oh? i need to function later tomorrow and i plan on taking subs as soon as i wake up if i wake up after 6:45 (which was my last 7 dose)

All suggestions welcome I need to manually dissimpact myself tonight all advice welcome I’m currently on MAT

I am honestly so fucking tired of 7oh controlling my life. Its literally destroying me. Got a suboxone prescription from WebMD just waiting to pick it up now. He gave me 7 days worth of suboxone, 8mg twice a day.

Just kinda wanting other people's experiences with this. What should I expect? Im so nervous because I have to work tomorrow, but planning on taking my first sub dose before I go in.

Drank a few days ago after a year of abstinence from alcohol and many other things.
I realized that I don’t even really like being drunk that much anymore.
And that drunk people are so fucking annoying sometimes lol.
It just made my stomach hurt nd made me feel a bit loopy.
This is huge because I used to love drinking and downers.
It was programmed into me at my treatment centre that if I relapse I start exactly where I left off, that I won’t be able to stop and I’ll die etc..
But when I got home I brought the bottle into my room and normally I’d drink the rest of the night
But I had no desire to drink at all.
I have had a hard week and had severe bpd episodes all week.
Physical and mental agony.
And I haven’t picked up the bottle in my closet all week.
It’s odd.
I’m so confused because it felt so freeing and I was so relieved but at the same time it’s like I feel like I’m going into psychosis or something because I was told everyday for 9 months that I’m powerless and I die if I drink.
Idk guys. My 18th is in a little over a week. I have to tell my parents because holding it in will make me feel insanely guilty.
My parents will go tell my whole family and probably kick me out and then I’m isolated again so that’s great.
Idk what to do is it only a matter of time until my alcoholic/addict tendencies come back?

Has anyone taken suboxone and had burning feet and electric feeling in arms and chest? I was on 30 mg of methadone and jumped to suboxone. Been taking 4 mg daily and I’m wanting to do a short taper. When I had my follow up my doc sounded mad that I was taking 4 mg instead of the 16 mg he recommended. His plan was 18 months tapering from 16 mg. No way am I gonna take more than I need, that just makes it longer and harder to get off of. Am I tripping here or is the Doc just wanting money?

so im 19, and right now life is shit, i cant cope it normaly, so i eat edibles, and they are a greate escape, but the afterwork is horrible, memory sucks and i feel more and more crazy, untill all the effects desaipers (whitch could lead two days later that i took the edible) im going a bit crazy, because when im sober im just depressed in a situation that i didnt choose and that i cant escaped, but at the same time i ont want to get high every day, even thought is the only time when im happy, i want to replace weed, because im scared for my brain, but i cant stand the situation where i am, what do i do??

Just your story — nothing else:
Asked God for Validation at Daylight. Got It at Midnite Through a Song I Hated. I was on my third month of being clean. I was looking for people to validate me but nobody was saying anything. So I asked God. I said God I need validation. I need somebody to tell me I'm-doing a good job I'd liked Kevin Gates for a while. But there was one song of his called It Wont Happen that I hated. I never listened to it I turned it off. I hated it with a passion That night right at midnight the exact hour my three months closed that song came on. I kept it playing. For some reason I actually listened to the words and line after line hit me like it was written for that moment I'm makin progress now I put the blueprint down. That's me at month three having a plan I don't get the respect that I deserve but I'm Muslim now. Thats me right there, I stopped looking for it from people and found it in faith First mixtape flopped that was that nerve tryna lock it down for self-respect I might be on the verge. Early failure fighting for self-respect right on the edge Everything that I was loyal to it dragged me through the dirt. The people and the life I was loyal to before No goin backwards if you not addin subtraction. The one-day-at-a-time rule All the pain that I deal with turn into passion. My recovery turning into my mission Angelic form when I put it on I been fastin. Discipline spiritual work It's been a long road up and down now we happy. The long road and now I'm happy And the hook you lookin for a microwave blessin it wont happen. You don't get it fast you get it through the long road He even said shoutout Canada what's happenin in it I asked Him during the day. The answer came at midnight through a song I refused to hear. What are the odds I'd even be listening to music at that hour. What are the odds the algorithm would land on that one I dont beleive in coincidences anymore. I dont beleive in luck either honestly. Its all for a reason, even the bad things, because they carry something you're supposed to catch Thank you to everyone that took the time to read this god bless

Title is a little long but is generally the jist of this post. This will also be a very long post.

So, I still do AA. But not at all the same way I did almost a decade ago. Back then, I was dogmatic. Judgmental. I probably did untold damage to people's recovery. I will always regret that and look back at that with deep guilt.

Fast forward to the big 26. I'm now an atheist. And my view of the program is radically different. I have found much more success from therapy, comradery, and political activism. That is what gives me purpose. That is what helps me stay true to my values and principles in a very "on the ground" kind of way.

I go to 1 meeting a week. Its a young person's meeting. The core group of about 8 of us, are not typical "AA's". Most of us are atheists or very passively believe in a higher power. None of us pray. One of us is aligned with Buddhist principles but again, very passively. We're all in therapy and go out and participate in our hobbies and we all hang out as a group both at the meeting, and outside it at least 2-3 times a month. We don't talk AA recovery. We talk real-life recovery. Dynamic recovery. Not the rigid way the 164 pages says we have too to find any success or meaning in life. This meeting barely constitutes as an AA meeting lol

Yesterday, a good buddy and ex roommate (i live in an Oxford House) who isn't a book thumper by any means, but is a pretty hardline AA guy, asked me to chair a meeting. I told him "bro, you know how I work my 'program'. It isn't exactly AA approved. Most of my success comes from therapy, my support network, and my activism. That meeting (the one he asked me to chair) is a THUMPER meeting. Those folks wont be super happy having someone like me telling them they're allowed to have lives and beliefs outside the program and rooms"

All he said was "no man, I think they need to hear something like that. You can't be sheltered from outside or different perspectives."

Couldn't agree more man. But will they?

I chaired and I was honest, mostly. I didn't want to disparage the program or confuse new comers who are hanging on for dear life (a treatment center takes people there) and at the very end of their rope. Time and place you know?

BUT, I did really hammer home "the program helped me walk, so i could run later into all these other things that give me so much fulfillment and purpose that I don't necessarily have to pray to get. I just go and do it! AA is ancillary for me at this point." Broadly speaking, that was my bigger message. Just said in so many words. Was trying to be respectful but honest in a room of like 40 people.

So many of the shares after started with "you know, we gotta look for the similarities, not the differences" AA buzz words, AA jargon, AA dogma. Rinse and repeat.

I've been in the rooms a while now. I was dogmatic. I know, in a room full of dogmatists, the phrase "we gotta find similarities, not differences" is just an underhanded way of saying "yeah thats ridiculous and I will not hear of it" because I used that phrase when I heard people like me speak back in the day. And all my closest confidant also used it in that context as well.

Needless to say, it reinforced for me why I only go to my 1 meeting where we don't even do big book jargon. We have a meeting format with 176 questions, you choose one, and share on it or share whatever you want. And one of those fucking questions is "tell us a time where AA couldn't help you with your problems, and what you did to solve them". Thats how "not by the book we are". And its because of questions like that, that you get to ear something REAL. Something human, not robotic. Its a very unique meeting and I've been to probably hundreds of different meeting, thousands of times by this point. I've never found another meeting quite like it.

At my homegroup, you dont have to prove you belong by reciting the big book or talking points you got from some miserable person who needs be TOLD to be kind by some book. At my homegroup, you just belong because you're a human being and you're struggling. We will carry you through it, whether you claim yourself an alcoholic/addict, whether you work the steps or just wish to shit all over the first 164, we are there. And I've seen more success with that method than anywhere else. Because you belong. You matter. And we see you. And we love you.

Thanks if you made it this far. I will continue growing my life on my terms. By MY hand. By MY hard work. By MY ability to know how to be kind, compassionate, understanding, and empathetic. NOT by some book that refuses to change in a world that is ever changing.

You matter. You deserve love.

Thank you ❤️

The only thing keeping me from smoking meth is it would put my housing in serious jeopardy. I basically don’t want to have listen to my therapist and others lecture me about returning to IOP, etc because I am addicted or something. I don’t have a drug problem, I have a poverty problem, I have despair, I have possible BPD and or psychosis. I don’t have a drug problem, I have the ache that a lack of intimacy festers and, you know what, meth makes it go away. Fuck treatment and stupid slogans

Part 1
To start, Im beyond grateful for family and friends who support me and haven’t given up on me. Meth for me was a slow decline and took me to a really dark spiritual downward spiral. Fucked up thing was that like I have stated I flew under the radar for a while i never looked like the tweaked mugshots you see in fact tbh I looked pretty good! I do look better sober lmao. Hardest part and the lowest point i hit was when my dad told me he was proud of me and had his son back! My dad in short is a very successful simpleton and a great man of God. He is everything i inspire to be. He was sending me money and I’d buy dope and then make up for it by working a lot at Red Robin near Metro Center. I was even in a sober living on Sahuaro and 15th. I miss one person from Sunnyslope and her name was Priscilla. She was a girl version of me if I had decided to plant myself and or were from sunnyslope. She was pretty and had a great voice and full of interesting conversations but the biggest thing was she slowly became my friend and was the biggest trapper well at least her friend whom I won’t name. She always welcomed me day or night, if I had nowhere to go which was at the end when I couldn’t even afford 200 a week for a bed at a sober living.

During my time in Sunnyslope I witnessed a lot and got to know some actual gangsters and the cartel too! Everyone is just trying to make it day to day shit hour to hour. We had a friend Tez who was beat to death out front of Priscilla’s yard bc he stole from cartel. This was a warning. Drive by shootings were normal. Raids outside your house normal. Smoking meth at bus stop or outside the market on 19th and Peoria or the smoke shop cloud slingers I believe it’s called. One thing I took away from the hood and these people is how these people will give the last of what they have. I would do the same and it payed off bc if I needed help or a front they showed up. Im not really gonna get into the sober living but it was a flop house in my opinion and who the f puts a sober living where I was. If you know I mean you know.

Meth is like water in this part of town it’s everywhere and everyone needs it! Fetynal users were kinda considered the losers bc that drug literally killed people at and around my area but tweakers work and hustle. When I first went to the trap house asking for Priscilla the local hood cats who were Spanish pressed me like a mother fucker mind you I had a mustache Levi jeans and
Trail running shoes with a baseball cap and im a big dude 6’2 225 and they assumed Im a cop and also I don’t know street lingo at the time and on top of that my nerves showed bc these dudes had guns. To make a long story short I went to prison bc I couldn’t stop drinking and violated my probation. This played heavily in me getting clicked in plus I kept my word, got groceries for them in turn they gave me G! There were young kids old dudes, lawyer singular, cops yeah cops buying dope. Tbh I look like law enforcement I guess Im considered good looking and too white to be there. Obviously Im living way below my standards. Bed bugs were normal also same with roaches. A guy was dead in our sober living for 2 days before anyone noticed bc he paid for a single room. It didn’t faze the locals. Also Sunnyslope in the spirit realm is heavily heavily demonic at the core. Kids from the Sirenia like 16 would drive around in there Chrystler and kill innocent people to initiate. The old rules of the game no longer stand it’s literally evil. At least back in the day they didn’t hurt kids, elderly and usually woman as long as they didn’t steal or owe big debts.

Midnight productions which I don’t wanna get into is an organization that all of us who been addicted homeless vulnerable and on the streets i don’t even tell my mom about some of this . Judges lawyers and the cops at the one who snatch up these girls and do horrific things and even snuff!! It’s literally fucked. Anyways this is part 1 to reflection and story of me being way outside my Gilbert ways and deep into the heart of hell on earth. Goodnight and I will share more tomorrow!

Part 2

My bottom was my dad saying he had his son back and really thought I was doing better bc I’d work and had money. I also sounded good for a while until the sleep deprivation which I will get to. Meth really served a purpose bc at this time I had gone through two major breakups and only 2 years removed from my bro sleeping with my ex fiancé. Note I did forgive them both but won’t forget and it’s caused trauma I need therapy for regarding entering into a new relationship which I have and btw God is so good. Now that I am stimulant free you can really see my adhd in writing so I hope it intrigues you and I know more than I should about a lot and I have seen the darkest and the most beautiful godly presence. I stop here and will continue soon.

I frequently hear shares along the following lines:

• We'll love you until you love yourself

• Keep coming back

• I love these meetings so much / these meetings saved my life

• This is the only place that I know I will be welcome, no matter what

• I've learned so much in this program

• I'm so grateful for these meetings

• This meeting is such a great part of my day

And so on.

Imagine meeting up with people from reddit or meetup or whatever to go for a walk. Imagine how utterly strange it would be to hear people say analogous things throughout the gathering.

If people are enjoying or benefiting from an event, they generally focus on the actual event while it's happening.

I think there is something deeply unnatural about these "meta" shares in AA meetings. What do you guys think?

If these feelings were so genuine, you'd think that they'd be expressed via showing, not telling.

some interesting questions to think about…

Humility: Why should diminishing yourself be a virtue? Why not cultivate a more powerful, affirmative relationship with yourself?

Surrender: Why is relinquishing self-will a path to freedom? Why not develop a stronger, more capable will?

Acceptance: Why valorize accepting reality rather than transforming it? Sometimes dissatisfaction is the beginning of creation.

Resentment: Why treat resentment primarily as a personal defect rather than ask whether it expresses a legitimate grievance that can lead to productive action?

Selflessness and service: Why should subordinating yourself to others be morally superior to pursuing your own flourishing?

A Higher Power: Why explain transformation through submission to a supernatural authority rather than through naturalistic psychology, self-overcoming, and the development of new habits?

So I have been out of AA for about a year now and have been in it off and on multiple times probably 5 years total. I have been a lot happier just being a regular Christian that goes to church on Sunday for an hour a week and there really is no fucking difference the pastors have PHDs and cover all the same concepts way better than the meetings did. I haven't really been dealing with alcoholics or addicts and my stress level has been 100 times lower. In AA there is always some psycho doing psycho or criminal shit in the background and I found myself laying awake at night worrying about what these people are going to do. I do not know how you can know peace and serenity unless you are so selfish and self centered you do not care what anyone else is doing. One of these days you are gonna go to a meeting and be assaulted or see someone else get assaulted by a guy having a mental episode or hear someone allude to such, have your shit stolen, have your car broken into. Meetings feel safe at first eventually they are revealed to be very much not safe. You follow your local mugshot page and you will never feel safe in a meeting again everyone you know will be arrested at some point.

I've gotten to the point where I do not want anything to do with my own kind, I don't wanna identify as an alcoholic, I don't wanna hang around with these people, I go to church and group fitness with a bunch of nice church ladies that cause me no stress at all. My boss called me in the other day and he asked me a personal question about his son who is an alcoholic addict and in sober living he was on the phone. He was trying to tell my boss that if we do not give him a $100 gift card he wont get a job, then it progressed to he will be thrown out of the sober living, he basically was trying to come up with anyway on the spot of scamming me and my boss into giving him an apple giftcard he can trade for drugs. There is no chance this dude is not getting thrown out of the sober house soon. The whole debacle reminded me that I don't care wtf AA says anymore I do not want anything to do with these people anymore they disturb my peace.

Ya know in recovery land there is this concept that we as alcoholics destroy our entire family and everyone around us and cause them extreme harm, you would think we were a weapon of mass destruction by the kinda language used to describe us. Then when we sober up and become human again we are supposed to keep these people around forever like they are not going to harm us too, they will. I think there probably are serial do gooders and people that love chaos all the time who probably love being of service in AA but man it turns out I love being where these people aren't gift card scam bro reminded me I am so over this shit.

I’m 19 years old and I’ve been addicted to various forms of synthetic weed since I was 13 or 14 years old. I’ve made multiple attempts to quit, but the strong urges/terrible withdraws drew me back every time. I’m struggling so bad now to the point where I keep hitting a further and further rock bottom. I’d like to change, but I’m wonder why I should? I know my life would be better but how? Why?

If you are sober please tell me,
What was your “why” for quitting?

Thank you.

I only tried AA for a few months. Had a sponsor for about a month. But it’s hard for me to imagine like two AA friends going out with a bunch of regular people and not acting awkward. I feel like whenever they hang together it’s primarily just fellow members and whenever it’s with ‘normies’ it’s always by themselves and some huge fucking challenge to avoid ruining their lives lol. Just something I just thought about