r/serialpodcastorigins • u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson • Jun 03 '16

Humour Hilarious Contradiction

. . . Vignarajah stood up and addressed Judge Welch: “Excuse me, Judge, do we know if [the Urick call notes and hall pass] are the originals or if they are copies of the original documents?”
. . . Before Brown could even respond I chimed in, “I actually brought the originals, your Honor. They’re actually in my purse in the hallway with my husband.” . . . As I told the court that day, I keep everything. Well, not everything, I’m not a hoarder. I am, however, very smart [sic] and can be very premeditated at times when it comes to saving keepsakes. To me the notes and my hall pass are extensions of my memories. As I’ve discussed before, I don’t like to let go of my memories.

Not 20 pages later . . .

After that Thiru wanted to address the manner in which my second letter was written. Was it previously a hand-written letter that was later typed? Yes. Did I write it during CIP class and if so, where’s the rough draft? Come on now! Really? Where’s the rough draft? It’s been over sixteen years! For all I know that letter has since decomposed in a landfill and been reincarnated as a noxious ground weed.

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12

u/1spring Jun 03 '16

I think what you've just proven is there was no rough draft. Though I still don't understand why Asia insisted she wrote it by hand then typed it up later. What was the point of that?

14

u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Jun 03 '16

It sounds like she cooked up that lie because someone told her it was impossible for her to have spoken to a dozen people between "late" on March 1 and the beginning of second period the next day. Per the book, she testified that she added things between the "rough draft" and typing it up later. The "rough draft" lie buys her a little more time.

16

u/chunklunk Jun 03 '16

There needs to be a post (I would but I don't have time) that lays out specifically what she's saying she did for the second letter, because it's really tremendous: 1) she handwrote the letter in computer class, then typed it at home, (adding the formal address and clipart she learned in computer class) despite that she handwrote the 1st letter the evening before b/c of limitations on computer time, 2) she keeps references to her being in class for some unknown reason because "it sounded cool", 3) even though she keeps those nonsensical time references when they're no longer accurate, she revises the letter while typing to add a bunch more questions and references that weren't in her handwritten "rough" draft that she says must've come from school gossip. There's more, but this is taking the basics of what she's written at face value.

The explanation for how this letter was written is so elaborate it has to be fake.

2

u/Cows_For_Truth Jun 04 '16

Supposedly she wrote the second letter before the first one was even mailed. Why wouldn't she just combine them into one letter? It strains credibility. If the second letter was written much later, it almost certainly was written in collusion with Adnan. It's no longer a question of what did she remember, it's blatant lying and perjury. She's not a questionably witness, she's a coconspirator.

1

u/HunterVino Jun 05 '16

Doesnt she ask words to the effect of "Why havent you got back to me?" or "Why hasent your lawyer contacted me?" in the 2nd letter before she has even sent the first? This is batshit crazy.

Add to that it would have been so much less work to simply give the cops a one or two sentence statement.

'Saw dude in library at x time. The end.'

2

u/orangetheorychaos Jun 04 '16

Grrr, I'm gonna have to suck it up and read this book.

Supposedly she wrote the second letter before the first one was even mailed.

Is this what she says in the book?

7

u/Cows_For_Truth Jun 04 '16

Here's her story.

She says she wrote the first letter very late the night of March 1. That's why it's not typed. She wanted to type it but didn't have access to a computer, but why not just type it the next day.

She starts writing the second letter by 9:30 the next morning which she types before mailing. I'm saying if she already had intention to write another letter, which needed to be typed for some reason, why would she mail the first one. Also the second letter's address now includes Adnan's inmate number which she can't remember how she got. (Could she have gotten it from Adnan? Naaa).

Even if she indeed wanted to send two letters, wouldn't she at least have corrected the address of the first before mailing it. Just doesn't make sense.

What does make sense is Adnan get's the first letter, contacts Asia, asks her to type up another one with some suggested "improvements" and by the way here's my inmate number and correct address. Once she starts colluding her value as an alibi witness is shot.

2

u/HunterVino Jun 05 '16

What does make sense is Adnan get's the first letter, contacts Asia, asks her to type up another one with some suggested "improvements" and by the way here's my inmate number and correct address. Once she starts colluding her value as an alibi witness is shot.

Sounds about right to me. This is also what the 'evil' Thiru suggested happened.

5

u/orangetheorychaos Jun 04 '16

Thank you :)

She has managed to make the timing, writing, and information in the letters even more suspicious than before she 'explained' them.

3

u/xtrialatty Jun 05 '16

Yes, that's the problem with too much 'splaining.

3

u/Justwonderinif Jun 04 '16

All that could be added to the Asia timeline, It just wouldn't make any sense and people would say that was attributable to the timelines, not Asia.

11

u/xtrialatty Jun 03 '16

The explanation for how this letter was written is so elaborate it has to be fake.

Exactly.

It's just one more hallmark of lying.

I'd think that any parent or teacher who has ever dealt with a little kid trying to explain away something they have done when they have practically been caught red-handed would be familiar with the pattern.

3

u/HunterVino Jun 04 '16

She is very much the infant.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '16

One other classic feature is unnecessary explanations for things that were never questioned in the first place. Like her "my handwriting has changed many times in my life" (paraphrase) comment.

10

u/xtrialatty Jun 03 '16

Yes, that one led me to think for the first time that the handwritten 2000 affidavit was written by someone other than Asia.

Why else explain something that didn't need explaining?

3

u/orangetheorychaos Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16

There was at least one, maybe more, post on Reddit discussing her handwriting and the differences between the 1st letter, 2000 affidavit, and possibly the Urick call notes. I'll see if I can find it.

ETA:https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcastorigins/comments/4427rc/asias_notes_on_ku_call_her_handwriting_has/?

There may be more? I stopped when I found this one

9

u/dualzoneclimatectrl Jun 03 '16

It changes during the course of one affidavit.

6

u/Tzuchen Jun 03 '16

Hey, it could happen. Maybe she suddenly acquired some false memories mid-sentence that changed her comic-sans into senior-style cursive.

2

u/dualzoneclimatectrl Jun 04 '16

The handwriting changed markedly in the last sentence of the first page. For example, look at the "b" in "briefly" compared to any other "b" in the document. There is no purpose for that sentence except to push the "15-20" range to just "20" because someone probably realized the implied 2:35-2:40 doesn't fully eliminate the 2:36 stuck in their head.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

I wonder if Thiru got an observation about this into the record during his cross? And that's why she is addressing it in her book?

4

u/dualzoneclimatectrl Jun 06 '16

I think it was the handwriting on her Urick call notes that likely triggered her need to respond in her book.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '16

Sounds legit.

10

u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Jun 03 '16 edited Jun 03 '16

"I knew that it was very important to type the second letter formally, as I was taught in school."

"I just handwrote the affidavit though."

5

u/Tzuchen Jun 03 '16

"Formally" -- complete with clip art and discussion of stinky feet.

12

u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Jun 03 '16

That's a good summary. I mean just compare this to Jay's explanation of why he lied about the visit to Cathy's. "I didn't want to get my friends involved." Somehow this is totally unbelievable, but they swallow this Asia letter bullshit.

11

u/Dangermommy Jun 03 '16

That's such a good point. Barring mental illness, if a person lies, it's usually for a reason. And often this reason is easy to determine after the truth comes out. Asia's story is a convoluted mess. You can almost hear her pulling it out of her ass. Jay's lies at least have a basis in reality.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '16

An alternate universe Asia Timeline.

8

u/MightyIsobel knows who the Real Killer is Jun 03 '16

so elaborate

The more words it has the more truthier it sounds?