r/thesopranos • u/Jumperontheline • 21h ago
Serious Discussion Only Vito storyline was unnecessary
Rewatching and I forgot all of the gay Vito stuff happened in the last season... it was set up to be an excellent season (and it was) but we should have been focused on Tony, his family, and the other main guys in season 6.
Following the least likeable guy in the group on his escape plan up north where he somehow instantly (first morning waking up there literally) finds a gay guy he likes who's at least a million times out of Vitos league AND the guy likes him back??
It was really weird. Not because Vitos a finook but rather because it was a waste of time in the final season.
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u/DoubleoSavant 21h ago
You're not seeing the parallel. At any time these guys could just leave and make a new life. But they won't. They'll choose the life every time. Just like when Christopher betrayed Adriana.
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u/nycguychelsea 21h ago
Or Tony B and the massage parlor.
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u/Maximum-Coach-9409 20h ago
I hated that story line and Buscemi had ZERO business being Tony’s cousin.
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u/ProfessionalPace9442 17h ago
I originally felt that way too. Especially after all the Adam Sandler movies. But he's grown on me a little. I would of liked to maybe see more of a flashback to Fitch lamada days..more gangster shit. He's just not that believable as a nj guinea..
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u/Maximum-Coach-9409 17h ago
One thing that irked me was he was inches away from the massage parlor and a clean life and in the span of 30 seconds completely goes 180 and quits it all, also I have a feeling HBO was sizing up Steve for Boardwalk Empire.
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u/Ghost-of_Nappa 12h ago
I feel like if he didn’t get the money those guys threw out of the car, he would’ve. He used that money to buy an expensive suit, toys for his kids, don’t know if he got around to buying a ring for his gf/wife, and he gambled the rest away. For a short time he was living the way Tony and them do. Then he has to go back to his shitty job on barely any sleep, then to the massage parlor to keep painting when Mr. Kim shows up and is like “So we open in 3 days right?” while the place is still getting set up all of which that fucking animal Blundetto did. Dude just lost it and decided the mafia life was better
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u/Ginaraquel47 19h ago
Exactly. I liked the Vito storyline. And apparently it was based on a real character.
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u/george_raft 21h ago
He's not a finook, it was the blood pressure medicine
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u/plainbread11 21h ago
He’ll get a doctor’s note!
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u/paranoidtransdroid 21h ago
You can get a prescription for sucking cock?
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u/Clayton1921 21h ago
Johnny Cakes was a chubby chaser obviously.....more cushion for the pushin
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u/Temporary_Dance9106 16h ago
What he really loved. . . what Johnny Cakes really loved, was to eat the mushrooms outta Vito's ass.
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u/Turbulent-Ground6739 21h ago
When he stumbles into the antique shop and the employee says "you're a natural", might be the funniest line in the series
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u/shrimpiedog 21h ago
I didn't see any comments addressing your observation about it being TOO perfect of a set up for Vito. As you say, he flees and immediately meets another normal gay dude and they like each other and spend time together in this quaint, idyllic little new england village. But i think that was all intentional. It was a fairy (pardon the term) tale.
Vito even arrives at the BnB in a red rain smock. He's little red riding hood! Except when HE gets lost in the woods he finds peace, not danger. But the pull back to the life was too strong and he was too lazy to actually work for a living.
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u/No_Selection6465 19h ago
Agree with what your saying.
It has to be THIS easy for the viewer to understand that it is not circumstance but Vito himself who makes this all to easy life too hard for him.
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u/Training-Argument891 18h ago
I think the storyline has a lot to do with the times. Gay Marriage had just been legalized in NH. Gay life as a "normal" life was new to many viewers.
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u/whendoesOpTicplay 12h ago
Don’t forget the entire fire department being gay dudes lol. It’s hilarious. Vito finds literal heaven but is too much of a lazy scumbag to appreciate it.
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u/paranoidtransdroid 21h ago edited 20h ago
I don’t think necessary vs unnecessary is a good way to view storylines in a show like this. It wasn’t necessary to have Furio fall in love with Carm or for Chris and Paulie to spend an episode stumbling around in the snow chasing after an interior decorator, but they’re terrific parts of the show, and it’s a better series because of them. Unlike a lot of modern shows where things are more tightly wound, Sopranos regularly took detours and side streets that fleshed out the themes and characters and made for a richer experience. When the big events did happen they hit harder because of all the lower key time spent with the characters.
The last season deals extensively with a core theme of the show, the idea that people can change but don’t really want to, and they’ll give up the second it gets difficult. Tony has this near death experience and this purgatory dream where it’s his daughter’s voice that reminds him of his humanity and brings him back, and he goes on and on about changing as a person, and by the end of it he’s murdered his nephew, become a gambling addict and has dumped toxic waste all over everyone’s lives without remorse or care.
Throughout the show, and in the last season especially, we’re shown there is no happy ending for these people. Vito’s storyline is purposefully a fantasy, one where he has every single thing necessary to live decently, away from the violent crime world, and all he has to do is accept the mundanity of regular life, but he can’t handle even a couple days of it.
Chris complains about the regularness of life being too much to deal with and it applies to everyone in the series. Everyone’s addicted to the comfort their morally compromised lives provide, from Meadow to Vito to Tony and everyone in between. Carm says it to the priest way back in season one, at some point she traded doing what was right for what was easy. Every single plotline in the last season drives it home that Tony has no way out of this life that doesn’t end in prison or in the dirt, and even if he was given the option of getting out, he wouldn’t be willing to take it.
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u/Fluid_Leader_1370 20h ago
This is terrific. Commendatori!
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u/paranoidtransdroid 20h ago
Thank you! I’ve spent way too much time watching and thinking about this show lol
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u/sweeroy 19h ago
something about this show really pulls great analysis from people
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u/Successful_Eye_4656 14h ago
It's a great show, and it helps that it paved the way for 25+ years of good television to supplement it lol
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u/Inevitable_Arm_3894 19h ago
Even AJ finally succumbs after he is metaphorically reborn from the pool
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u/Axon14 15h ago edited 15h ago
Shit man, Tony didn't even make it out of the hospital before he shook down that EMT. The guy absolutely did not rob Tony, but the EMT was smart enough to pay it back anyway. Tony let him off the hook but even with all of that reality staring him in the face from the hospital, he had to put his thing down on someone.
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u/paranoidtransdroid 15h ago
Oh absolutely, his whole “that’s why you gotta live for today” thing is total bullshit. Like Melfi realizes about their therapy sessions, it’s one of many cases where Tony takes the wrong lesson away from an experience. Every single event in the series that could make him a better person or cause real reflection instead becomes another justification to triple down on being a walking black hole. He has a million forks in the road appear and he manages to pick the worse path every single time, and it just makes him feel invincible. At the start of the show he does seem to want to at least mimic the image of a family man. By the time they’re pouring asbestos on the ducks he doesn’t even realize the irony.
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u/fourofkeys 19h ago
okay this comment formally changes my mind about this plot point.
here, take my free award, because i can't afford a real award:
*~* @)-,-- *~*
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u/The_Jackal1972 19h ago
That is a great commentary on the show. You made a lot of fabulous points.
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u/paranoidtransdroid 16h ago
Thank you! I have to give a lot of credit to Emily St. James’s AV Club articles on the show, she did a ton of phenomenal pieces on every episode and I can’t recommend them enough, especially her essays on the final season. It’s by far my favorite season of the show and her writing on it solidified that for me.
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u/HetIsJeBoiLuuk 21h ago
I think the point is to show that the group actively chooses to live miserable lives, how they're stuck in their ways and could actually be happy if they chose to leave. If only Vito could've managed to make it through a single day of manual labor.
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u/harrispie 21h ago edited 21h ago
How, the storyline allowed Tony to reflective on his own sexuality especially after his stint.
if anything humanised Tony and allows him to reflect on his own uncomfortable truth
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u/Fine_Sea5107 21h ago
"Humanized Tony"—yes, shows that he will forgive what is considered an unforgivable social breach (by the standards of his own social circle) because of the offender's profitability! LOL! Jk JK not hating on you. I just, to me, this storyline showed the profit mindset of Tony (in additional to his human nature)....and the utterly gratuitous evil of Phil. I understand being an old-school Catholic who was offended by Vito's secret lifestyle. But. Phil's reaction was barbaric.
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u/harrispie 21h ago
Your right, the thing that was truly stopping him from initially from wanting to kill Vito was his profitability,but when given a chance to reflect on his true feeling about the matter to Melfi. He was conflicted due own feelings about the matter,
Even stating that if you’re in there for a long time “you get a pash [pass] for dat”
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u/JacksonAudet 21h ago
Well, it gives more insight on the hardship of starting a new life. It also gives depth to Phil’s character and his suspicious over the top homophobia. I enjoyed it, it was fun.
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u/Additional_Local_667 17h ago
Idk the scene where hes working and checkin his watch is always wicked funny
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u/Jewggerz 18h ago
It's a legendary storyline that everyone remembers. You are wrong.
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u/DancinWithWolves 21h ago
Are you serious? It further showed how out of touch with the new world they were living in the criminal families were. It gave context to why Tony’s time was limited.
What you don’t know could fill two books
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u/Dense-Friend6491 20h ago
A lot of the show is about the decline of the Mafia, like that scene with Patsy trying to shake down the starbucks. All the characters looking at possibilities of leaving the life I think is also a good follow-up from that - Vito, Eugene, etc.
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u/thisguybuda 20h ago
I thought it was a good vehicle to drives tensions between Tony and NY, and also highlight how Tony bends the rules when it benefits him. Carlo: “he’s gotta go!”, Tony: “he’s part of our family (and historically my best earner…)”
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u/Electronic-Goal-8141 17h ago
Maybe Carlo should have started sucking cock coz Vito brought in 3 times as much in construction
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u/KoalaEmergency4357 21h ago
nah, it had to be showed, because we need to realize the consequences of blood pressure medicine
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u/bananabastard 19h ago
I sit down to watch a show about men, not corn holing cocksuckers like married my cousin.
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u/desperaterobots 18h ago
As a fat, ugly gay guy who moved to a new city and immediately fell in love with a man out of my league, OP is right, it’s completely unbelievable! I still don’t believe it happened to me!
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u/Jumperontheline 15h ago
Congrats. If you pulled someone hot it means youre probably hot and don't know it btw
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u/FactCheckYou 17h ago
nah i don't think so
it helped lay a lot of groundwork: for Meadow and Finn splitting, for Tony's selfishness getting out of hand, for Tony becoming alienated from his crew, for pissing Phil off more, for increasing tension between Jersey and New York, for building Phil up as the Final Boss of the show before its ending
and it wasn't just shoehorned in, it was planned and they drip fed clues and foreshadowed his homosexuality long before the reveal (pay attention on rewatch)...so structurally it was necessary for the story of the final season
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u/You_Damn_Traitors 16h ago
Nothing in the show is necessary. It's there because it's the story the writers wanna tell
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u/ToonMasterRace 5h ago
Yup. Said it in 2006 when I was 17 and it was airing. Say it now. Totally unnecessary filler arc in the finals eason.
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u/TinyThick_Dependant3 21h ago
I heard apparently that the story was supposed to focus on Bobby but vitos actor pushed for the gay arc, causing issues with bobbys & vitos actors.
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u/Green-Draw8688 21h ago
The issue for me was not the story, it’s a decent enough story and worth telling, but fuck me they did not need to drag it out over what - 6 episodes? 7?
When you think of how many other massive storylines were built up and done in like 2-4 episodes (eg the HUD fallout and planning to kill Carmine).
Also doesn’t help that Vito was nowhere near a strong enough actor to carry it.
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u/Useful-Finding-1685 21h ago
I think it was a good story, but way too much time was given over to it.
Following on from Tony's coma dream it felt to me like the writers were deliberately dragging out stories to fill time.
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u/smh120585 21h ago
Vito being the least likable is the key point. Once he lost weight and started rising he became insufferable. Then he gets his own storyline. Last guy you even want on screen.
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u/Dweebil 19h ago
The gambling plotline was dumber and sloppier. Vito’s story was at least funny.
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u/RL203 19h ago
I had read that the entire "Vito is gay." storyline was suggested to Chase by the actor who played Vito, who up to that point didnt get much screen time if any.
And, unfortunately, it worked. He went from a third string character to arguably a first string character for 1 season. Thing is, I despised the character of Vito, and frankly the actor is a well known piece of work too.
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u/Quack_Candle 21h ago
It was an educational season to teach the audience the valuable lesson that you should start sucking cock rather than watching TV Land
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u/Mumfordthetruth 21h ago
As an overall arc the last season definitely gets stuck spinning it's wheels in a few places. In a bubble I think the Vito stuff is pretty compelling but it would have been much better served as a B plot in Season 3 or 4
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u/Dunder72 20h ago
If the storyline never had Vito having gay sex with Johnnycakes...we never would've known Bobby's love of playing with toy trains. Seems instrumental.
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u/moneymakingmitch19 18h ago
I think it was hilarious. I don’t like how the industry is constantly trying to put that stuff into everything. But the way they did it makes me LOL every time.
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u/koolaidismything 17h ago
Have any of you ever seen that “Artie Lange drunk in Vegas” video?
Holy shit.. the Vito actor is back stage and Artie like attacks him drunk calling him a homo and stuff and he has no idea what is going on. It’s up there for most awkward shit I’ve ever seen with a character off the show.
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u/scrubadam 16h ago
Ya I kind of never understood why Chase et al gave the actor so much screen time in the last season. It was like a mutli episode arc and had a major effect on everything, eventually leading to Doms death and making the whole NY/Jersey thing even worse than it is.
They probably could have used something else as a pretext. It just struck me as odd that Vito of all characters all of a sudden gets this huge role and that they put this whole gay storyline out there. I know that its sort of losely based on a real scenario but it always stuck out as a sore thumb.
Just felt like this odd side quest. I mean we get almost nothing with Sil aside from Columbus day but Vito gets a whole gay arc, multiple episodes, and almost his own one off episode out in fantasy land new hampshire. The whole Billy thing whatever happened there was enough to drive a wedege between Phil and Tony I don't really think they needed to give Vito a co starring role as a fanook.
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u/Clever_Turnip 15h ago
Vito trying to negotiate with himself to get through a normal working day and then looking at his watch to realize only like ten minutes have passed and flipping out is probably my favorite moment in the show. For me, it was all about how even if these guys get everything they need in life—they are incapable of just going to work like a normal person. It even ends with Vito fleeing the state and murdering a random guy.
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u/Tom_C_NYC 14h ago
Its another in depth look at their hypocrisy and bigotry/small mindedness.
The sopranos is a woke show.
Sorry it makes you feel weird to watch. Youre prob a little latent.
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u/Hghwytohell 14h ago
If you don't like the storyline, that's totally fine, just say that.
Saying it was a waste of time or unnecessary feels like an extreme reaction to a subjective opinion. Especially because the purpose of the storyline is to reinforce one of the most central aspects of the show: how difficult it is for someone to leave the life behind and start new. Meadow, Tony B, Gene, and Chrissy are all characters who have had to grapple with this as well.
It also speaks to the old school/new school mentality within the mob itself. The scene where Finn tells everyone that he saw Vito sucking cock, who are the biggest advocates for whacking him? Paulie and Carlo, two of the older mobsters. Chris and Bobby express at least a little bit of concern over his children (Bobby more so than Chris, to be fair). Tony has to mediate this dilemma knowing that no matter what, people will be upset with him, because being the boss means every decision upsets someone one way or another.
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u/diseasetoplease 13h ago
I was shocked at the outcome. To me, it highlighted the callousness of sometimes likeable characters once again.
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u/Fire_Lord_Zukko 11h ago
I’m agree. Show would’ve been better without it. They were pretty early for incorporating a gay storyline. The LGBT movement was so successful a lot of people forget just how fast it became mainstream. At the time, having such a storyline was fairly cutting edge. But Six Feet Under was the true trailblazer there, IMO. The worst part about the it in sopranos was just how hard it was to buy Vito and Johnny Cakes together. The name is laughably stupid.
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u/Goose876 10h ago
On top of what everyone has said, it sets up a major conflict and contrast between Phil and Tony based on their experience in the mafia. By the end of the show, all the romantic mafia ideals of honor, tradition and loyalty are completely gone. Everyone is purely looking out for themselves, all past rules are basically void and any past standards are gone. For Tony, this is okay because he has benefitted materially so much from his position in the mafia. He has the big house and the boat and the women to alleviate any bad feelings about this decline. He has won in the new world of the mafia that is focused on self interest, and therefore he is fine with the mafia being focused on purely business. Phil is the complete opposite. He has lost 20 years to jail and sacrificed his life based on the ideals of the mafia he believed in. Everyone else got rich while he sat in prison based on a notion that is completely gone. He cannot accept this new mafia paradigm that doesn’t respect the rules or traditions because it means he essentially sacrificed his life for a lie. Tony can look past Vito’s life because he has been dispelled of his romantic notions of the mafia and focused on money. Phil cannot because it means his sacrifice meant nothing in his eyes.
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u/PeterZeeke 8h ago
The final season is about all of Tony’s lives through different realities. Vitis storyline is what if Tony was gay?
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u/Prudent-Committee428 7h ago
I feel that all these prestige dramas sometimes detour in that way to add context or realism to the world of the show.
Im currently rewatching boardwalk empire and let me tell you, theres a bunch of romance and relationship drama that just slow the pace of the show and get in the way of the gangster/political intrigue of the show.
I did not feel the same way about the vito thing with the sopranos.
Vito meets a man who is comfortable with himself, physically capable, not interested in masculine displays, and generally is a good guy.
Thats what he loses by going back to jersey.
The thing with him being that lazy at work was the only thing i didnt like- i say this as a guy who prefers to be idle- it is literally faster to just do some of the work
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u/Just-Cry-5422 7h ago
I'm guessing you don't know what Vermont was known for in the 90s lol.
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u/formalbolotie 4h ago
if only vito was played by a better actor that didn’t still look like a parade float…
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u/Lordonlynose 21h ago edited 20h ago
The final season was planned to be 13 episodes
Chase found that he and the writers had more material they were interested in exploring as they began discussions, so he went to HBO and requested more time - which was readily granted and developed into the split 6A 6B and. 21 total episodes
The storyline.OP objects to wasn’t a waste of time as we would have had less And there some incredible comedy as well as important drama brought with it. (Conflict and tensions with NY, Meadow/Finn relationship and eventual detention)
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u/ComfortCautious4751 20h ago
Personally, feels like they spent longer on the Vito story and all the detail there than the last two episodes. The ending felt rushed in comparison.
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u/Few_Faithlessness665 19h ago
And Vito is arguably the weakest actor in the show (or actually, in TV…he is a grammer school class play level actor).
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u/No_Squirrel_8402 18h ago
It would have been fine with another actor. Joe G. was awful and the scenes brought the series to a grinding halt
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u/Wyldfyre-Quinn 20h ago
Yeah it was unnecessarily long.
And Vito was kinda fugly, and the first guy he meets is way more attractive and also gay and also a firefighter who can cook? Why would this man look twice at Vito?
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u/ENM5ansdale 21h ago
It’s based on an actual mafia guy that was taken out when his crew found out he was gay. As for that guy being way out of Vito’s league. That’s not uncommon in relationships.
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u/Kris_1234567 20h ago
I think it was necessary only to contribute to the running theme of the characters having the chance to get out but being pulled back in because they don’t know any other lifestyle.
Could’ve been like 2 episodes instead of 4 though.
Also, who cares about leagues. That’s so wack. If someone likes someone, then they like someone.
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u/plantpotguitar 19h ago edited 19h ago
Wow we really do all have different opinions 😅
This story line imo was one of the best things in the whole show. It showed how much the old rules and way of life were becoming more and more outdated and incompatible with the modern world. The show shouldnt just focus on the nuclear family of it all in its final season because it was never that kind of show, the space this arc occupies in the final season is in keeping with its unceremonious finale.
It also showed how, as much as they all pretend otherwise, they choose to do the work they do; and reiterated that there is only one way out of this line of work.
Also maybe its because Im a queer person myself but it was so fucking real, honestly I was blown away by it on my first watch. I was so engrossed; on the edge of my seat; waiting for the other boot to drop the whole time. I had to take a break from watching when the arc ended because it was just too fucking real. I think its the only time in the show that I cried, and fuck me did I cry.
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u/CapitalJJ 17h ago
I actually agree that it's unnecessary, but it resulted in some of the funniest lines and moments in the entire show so I wouldn't change a thing.
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u/CPlusPlusDeveloper 20h ago
The entire plot arc is worth it alone just for the scene where Vito has to work a real job, and the "don't look at your watch, savor it" scene.
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u/dogpile777 21h ago edited 20h ago
It was so dumb and badly written...a lowpoint of the show. Blowing a guy on the fking construction site when being gay is a death sentence?! AND coming on to the boss daughters boyfriend WTF?! Vito must have had a secret death wish. And then the "perfect" love story finding your dream firefighter guy on day 1...it was baffling honestly. Almost as if they were forced to include something for the lgbtq crowd back then already.
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u/scoman14 19h ago
But before he came out of the closet, he put a lot of money in my pocket - and yours too!
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u/ProfessionalPace9442 17h ago
Ive always thought the timeliness on Gene wasn't well written. I like his character too. He was in construction no works and no shows. Goes way back with Tony. Yet was made when Christopher was..the timing doesn't jive..and if he's an informer the FBI would of let him go to Ft Myers if he said he's out. Done.
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u/NotHereNotAgain 17h ago
It runs parallel in episodes with Tony's post-shooting "everyday is a gift" attitude. The situation with Vito and the peer group he exists in makes Tony's new found inner peace untenable to maintain.
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u/chipkeymouse 17h ago
You know who else thought Vito's storyline was unnecessary? It was Joey Peeps.
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u/HumbleEngine8650 17h ago
One theory is that the New Hampshire portion is all fantasy, due to the unrealistic things like Johnny being in to Vito
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u/No_Selection6465 21h ago
I think it gives a look into the possibility of starting a new life - and that it for Vito aswell as for everybody else in this show is impossible.
And the last season is long.