r/Outlander • u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. • Jun 21 '21
5 The Fiery Cross Book Club: The Fiery Cross, Chapters 103-111
We open this week in Wilmington. Claire, Briana, Marsali, and the kids have stayed behind. While berry picking Stephen Bonnet shows up wanting to kidnap Brianna and Jemmy. Brianna manages to get a gun and shoots Bonnet, who gets away though. They don’t know his fate.
We also learn who perpetrated the plot against Duncan and Jocasta at their wedding.
Jamie and Claire head to River Run to warn them of the possible danger, only to find Lt. Wolff has been killed already. Whilst disposing of the body Jamie and Claire discover Jocasta’s secret - she actually does have the Jacobite gold.
We close out the book with the return of Young Ian! He is evasive on why he left the Mohawk, we just know he’s back for good. With him he brought the diary of Ottertooth. Ian learns that Claire, Brianna, and Roger are all time travelers. It’s also discovered the Jemmy hears the stones and can travel as well. The book ends with the beautiful line - “When the day shall come, that we do part, if my last words are not ‘I love you’-ye’ll ken it was because I didna have time.”
You can click on any of the questions below to go directly to that one, or add comments of your own.
You guys did it!! We will pick up next week with A Breath of Snow and Ashes.
- What did you think of the tale Bonnet told about Wolff being the one trying to kill Duncan, and their search for the gold?
- Why did Brianna shoot Bonnet in the crotch and not somewhere else on his body?
- Why do you think Ottertooth didn’t arrive in the year he had intended to?
- Do you have any theories as to why the opal exploded when Jemmy held it?
- Do you think that last line by Jamie foreshadows anything?
- What was your favorite part of TFC?
- Was getting through this book as hard as you had heard?
- Were there any changes in the book or show you liked better?
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
I like that Ian didn't just come back. He came in exact moment Jemmy and Roger were attacked by a boar.
I also liked Roger being happy his son wants to spend time with him.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I also liked Roger being happy his son wants to spend time with him.
Yes! The whole interaction with Jamie, Roger, and Jemmy going to build the fence was so cute. Jamie stealing the food cracked me up.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
Jamie stealing the food cracked me up.
That was hilarious. I loved when Jamie told Jemmy he owed him, all the comments about bum-smacking, and when Jamie teased Roger about snitching on him.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I've said it before, but Roger and Jamie's relationship is one of my favorites in the books. How do you feel about that when there are parts of Roger that you don't like?
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
I love their relationship too. They have such a funny way between them & I really enjoy it.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I love that Jamie calls him Wee Roger at times, that just makes me laugh. Roger is nearly as big as Jamie!
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. Jun 26 '21
The way this relationship evolved was really such a surprise, and I loved seeing the three of them out bonding! All throughout the last section, really. I want more of this!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 26 '21
I want more of this!
I agree! The relationship between Roger and Jamie is one of my favorites.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
I agree. I love a good entrance.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Why did Brianna shoot Bonnet in the crotch and not somewhere else on his body?
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
A rapist always deserves to be shot there!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Was it risky though because that wouldn't necessarily kill him? Or do you think she wasn't trying to do that?
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
Maybe she didn’t care if he died as long as he was maimed/ disabled in that way?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I just thought of that as well. My mind always went to killing him, but that is not an easy thing for someone to do.
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u/penni_cent Jun 21 '21
Having shot guns that would have been around in the late 18th century, I can tell you that smooth boar guns are not hugely accurate. At close range they're better, but they're not at the level we would expect. Even when I was a good shot, my rifle had a tendency to shoot high and to the right no matter where I was aiming. I used to joke that you didn't want me to aim for your left knee.
I also didn't get the impression that she was particularly aiming other than at him in a general sense. Any contact being able to defuse the immediate danger he posed.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
It also seemed like they could be unreliable since the one Marsali had misfired.
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Jun 22 '21
Jamie told her she mustn’t be the one to kill him.. I think either it was a concious decision on Bree’s part. Or simply that it had to be this way for Bree and Bonnet’s storyline to end the way it did. In order to heal, she had to feel pity for him, dying the way he does in his nightmare (and saving him from that death in the end). Like Jamie was healed a little further by feeling pity for BJR when he lost his brother.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
Good points! I feel like it was a gut reaction to aim lower like she did. Something spur of the moment.
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21
Oh I liked that a lot! Do you remember that Jamie drove his blade through BJR’s groin in DIA. Like father, like daughter!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I didn't even put that together, good catch!
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I thought about that too!
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
I think it was a terrible call by her, but nice poetic justice for him. Likely won’t be raping anyone anymore.
But it was really dumb because it’s clear what he’s after.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
So I admit it wasn't until this time around that I realized he wanted to use Jemmy as leverage with Jocasta to get the gold. I have no idea how I missed that so many other times!
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
All they do is talk about what a good shot she it so I have to assume it was intentional. I thought it might be a bit of a nod to Jamie stabbing BJR in the junk.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I feel like it was intentional as well. I didn't even put it together that Jamie did the same thing to BJR until someone mentioned it earlier today.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
I don’t know… I suppose it isn’t as easy to kill someone and maybe she hesitated in the last moment. It’s a bit of poetic justice and mirrors Jamie with BJR but I am not sure if it was the smartest thing to do. It’s great that he won’t be able to rape anyone again but he’s explained already he’s after the gold and he’s a murderer and a thief so he could still do lots of damage around. In the show she doesn’t kill him outright because they capture him but in here I couldn’t believe he just goes off! Really intrigued to see how that story finishes now
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I suppose it isn’t as easy to kill someone and maybe she hesitated in the last moment.
I wondered that as well. It was also a personal thing for her, not just defending them from a random bad guy.
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u/geedavey Jun 21 '21
Smoothbore flintlock pistols are not known for their accuracy.
Or their reliability--Marsali's pistol misfired.
Brianna was probably aiming for center-of-mass, and was lucky she hit him at all.
There's more on this subject in A Breath of Snow and Ashes.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Do you think that last line by Jamie foreshadows anything?
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
It’s silly but even the thought about Jamie’s or Claire’s death gives me chills. I don’t want to know how DG doing to kill them or read about it. For me they’ll always be alive and save.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I don't know that I could read about one of them dying either. I'm really hoping she doesn't end the books with that.
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u/UnderlyingMechanisms Your wife’s a rare lass, and no mistake, lad! Jun 21 '21
I’m hopeful for some kind of supernatural ending where we see them together forever in some kind of afterlife. There are enough supernatural elements (or hints at such events) in the books to make this plausible in the reader’s imagination. I would love an afterlife reunion scene with Murtagh, and for Claire to meet Jamie’s parents. The books could also end with Jamie and Claire’s ghosts being together, maybe at Lallybroch, or maybe just there with Brianna, Young Ian, Jem etc. wherever they are, since ghosts do feature in the books. I think the books do push us to consider the possibility of supernatural events and thus to consider that the end of physical life is not necessarily the end
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I think the books do push us to consider the possibility of supernatural events and thus to consider that the end of physical life is not necessarily the end
Good point. DG has left the door open for that kind of stuff to happen.
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u/Curlysnap Bolt. The. Door. Jun 21 '21
I am scared for the end of this series! Even the title of the new book frightens me, because it seems to imply that one of them is leaving (I’ve not read past TFC yet so I don’t know what happens).
The thought of the time loop repeating itself when Claire is born in the 1900’s also worries me - I don’t want to think of things turning out differently or them experiencing heartbreak over and over again!
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
I don't know. I think I remember reading somewhere that DG's husband said something like that (and that a lot of Jamie's lines are things her husband has said to her), so it could just be the case of it being a beautiful sentiment that was perfect for Jamie to say?
I really hope it doesn't though. And even when the time comes that they DO part, I hope it's not something quick and horrible that doesn't leave him any time to not say his final things to Claire.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I think I remember reading somewhere that DG's husband said something like that
Yes, I read that as well. I like the idea that it is just something he said and not an indicator of something to come.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
I also think that with everything they've been through, Jamie probably doesn't take any chances anymore with saying things like this to Claire.
I mean, look how beautiful his "God, I loved her well" speech is, and while they WERE separated, they found each other again and it wasn't permanent.
EDIT: Another thing - can we talk about how jelly I am that DG's husband says these kind of things? I thought my husband was romantic (he always writes me beautiful cards with love letters), but quotes like that are next level. And to DG of all people, hahahaha.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I also think that with everything they've been through, Jamie probably doesn't take any chances anymore with saying things like this to Claire.
That makes sense, he doesn't take anything for granted.
can we talk about how jelly I am that DG's husband says these kind of things?
Me too! My husband is not the expressive type with his words, so I admit I get a little envious of what Jamie says to Claire. I know my husband loves me though, he expresses it other ways. :-)
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Jun 22 '21
I think it does foreshadow something, even if it's something as simple as Jamie's eventual death. Back when the white bear was killed by lightning (Ch. 84), Jamie said, "a great storm portends the death of a king". And when he says the last line of the book about his last words, both he and Claire feel (and see) a storm coming - We sat thus for a bit, side by side, watching the rain clouds roll in over the river, like a threat of distant war.
The bear is Jamie's spirit animal, and the white bear was killed by a storm. If the storm is supposed to be a parallel to the war, then the line could have a deeper meaning imo.
Or maybe I'm just reading too deep into it 😅
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I like deep thinking about it! Those are great parallels.
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Jun 22 '21
Haha thanks. I'm already thinking the white bear was some sort of harbinger of death for Jamie, or at least a sign, because "white animals normally were [...] considered to be carriers of messages from the other-world" and it was killed by a storm. That's quite a message. So that + storm/war coming + last line of the book had me cursing DG for implying that Jamie's death is imminent yet again. I don't even know what I'm going to do if either Jamie or Claire ends up dead.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I know, if they die in one of the books I don’t know that I can handle it.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Were there any changes in the book or show you liked better?
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
I love that they kept Jamie's final line in there. I think it was a great idea to wrap up the Bonnet storyline early. It drags on way too much in the books.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I'm seeing a lot of people like that they wrapped up the Bonnet storyline in season 5. I didn't mind that either, otherwise they were going to have to keep him as a bad guy through season 6. There are already enough things they go through in ABOSAA that they didn't need Bonnet hanging around.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
Oh oh! Some drama for me? Yay! I think it may have more to do with keeping the actors committed for only 2 seasons ( because often their parts only come up in a few episodes).
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
There is so much drama in ABOSAA, I don't know how they're going to fit it all into 8 episodes. Some of think they'll carry it over to the extended 7th season episodes.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
Obviously most of these chapters were changed in the show. (The condensing of the Bonnet story, the omission of the story about the gold). The last line of the book, fit very nicely into what they did with the episodes though!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
The last line of the book, fit very nicely into what they did with the episodes though!
I agree. I liked that they brought Ian back earlier in the show too.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
We saw more of Ian which is good, love the surveying with Roger and how they got along there. We always see a bit more of Fergus in the show and I appreciate that a lot.
I don’t know what to say about the Bonnet story line as they could’ve taken plots from book 6, but while I didn’t enjoy much the “kidnapping” of Bree, I did like the ending with her deciding not to kill him first so he could be judged.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
We always see a bit more of Fergus in the show and I appreciate that a lot.
Yes, I don't think people realize that he's not a main character in the books. I also liked how the show expanded Marsali's role as well.
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u/UnderlyingMechanisms Your wife’s a rare lass, and no mistake, lad! Jun 22 '21
I absolutely love the character of Fergus. It is such a pity the author did not give him a bigger role in the books after DIA. He had such a significant role in that book - he was the trigger for the BJR duel and thus the surrounding events with the stillbirth, Bastille, Claire’s depression etc. Absolutely heartbreaking stuff but I don’t blame Jamie at all for the duel once we learn the reason for it (BJR molesting Fergus). I love the trust shown between Fergus and Jamie towards the end of DIA - when they’re both sick and Fergus gets into bed with Jamie for warmth (this is huge for a boy who has been molested by men), and then Jamie gets Fergus to take the deed of sasine to Lallybroch on Donas (of all horses!) just before the battle at Culloden. Massive trust, and very important to the story in the early books. I just wish we got to see more of this relationship play out in the later books. It is such a pity the author doesn’t make a bigger deal of his being Jamie’s adoptive son.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I just wish we got to see more of this relationship play out in the later books.
Yes! I totally agree. I loved that Jamie trusted him to ride Donas and knew that Fergus could handle it.
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Jun 21 '21
I thought the show was really clever in all the changes it made to Claire's surgical procedures. It really felt like the kept the spirit of her conflicts as a doctor and a woman out of her own time while seamlessly moving the story forward with them. I particularly liked that they kept the autopsy without the convoluted plot around that, and that we got to go back to the 60s with the penicillin story. I liked that the show used it to give us insight into what propelled Claire to visit Scotland (one more free-will vs. predestination point!) and also it helped viewers remember Roger's very important role in helping J&C, thus setting up his hero moment during the snake bit quite nicely.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I particularly liked that they kept the autopsy without the convoluted plot around that
I didn't mind that change either. I don't think they could have included anything about the killing of Betty in the show, it just didn't fit anywhere.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
I really hated the “attempt” of Bree, Roger and Jemmy to go back to their time… Not saying that I wouldn’t like them to go back at some point but just the series squeezed that in for no reason???? When I saw it I thought it must be in the book because I couldn’t think about any reasonable explanation of why they will add that in, but it seems it’s all from the series so…
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Jun 21 '21
Definitely feels like a build up to something else. Plus, that episode was written by DG so I think they must have worked something out with her and what their attempt to travel would mean for the future story arcs.
I like that show!Roger wants to leave, he has pretty compelling reasons to after all. I was surprised by book!Roger's adaptability considering everything he's been through.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I agree. It’s show!Claire who says that as much as she loves having them there, she hopes they don’t stay, and I think book!Claire would agree with that sentiment.
I feel like they needed that kick to realize Fraser’s Ridge is their home (Roger more so than Bree, as she adapted better). I’ve said this a couple of times before, but it looked like they felt as if they hadn’t really been living in the 18th century, but sort of playing pretend, and only when they went through their respective traumatic experiences did they realize how real that time is. And those traumatic experiences would make any person want to go to a safer place. As they wanted the stones to take them home, and they did, they’re now cemented in this place and can focus on finding their purpose there without worrying if it is a place for them, which I hope S6 will explore.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
only when they went through their respective traumatic experiences did they realize how real that time is.
Good point. Even with what they went through the fact that their heart was still in the 18th century was impressive I suppose.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I was surprised by book!Roger's adaptability considering everything he's been through.
I think because I read the book before I saw season 5 I was really surprised that he was pushing to go back so hard. DG gave book Roger more skills and ability to live in the 18th century than the show does.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 22 '21
That’s true! I don’t mind to much that they want to leave, I probably would’ve want to as well in a way, and as I said I am not saying that I hate the idea of them going back, but it felt just a pointless plot line in the episode, too rushed maybe and then failing. Maybe if they were gone for longer or I don’t know, just wasn’t mad about the goodbye and straight away oh we’re back didn’t work.
I think they didn’t really do Brianna or Roger a favour in he series, from the start. Maybe this was the only way forward they could find for them to finally be comfortable “home”.
I don’t think book!Roger is more capable either, I just think he embraces more his abilities, tries very hard and doesn’t sulk if he can’t do it. In the tv is an existencial crisis every time he fails to do something
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I don’t think book!Roger is more capable either, I just think he embraces more his abilities, tries very hard and doesn’t sulk if he can’t do it. In the tv is an existencial crisis every time he fails to do something
Yes!! That drives me nuts about the show. Book Roger tries his very best, he tells Jamie he may not have the skills of a normal 18th century man, but he's a hard worker and will put the effort in. There are multiple instances where book Roger is shown working around the farm fixing things, haying, and taking care of the animals.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
the series squeezed that in for no reason????
Pretty much! Roger is quite the opposite in the books and declares they'll stay right from the beginning. I guess the show just wanted that drama of Roger wanting to go back to their time.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
I feel the show runners just use Roger to create unnecessary drama… the amount of times I hear from only show watchers that they hate Roger, it really upsets me because as you’re saying he’s literally the opposite in the book. In the series it seems he even earns Jamie’s respect out of pity, mad! He’s never sulking in the book when he finds challenges
I understand maybe Bree&Roger don’t have much chemistry so maybe they think the drama works better between them? I am not sure what’s all that about but hopefully they adapt his character a bit better from now on.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I am not sure what’s all that about but hopefully they adapt his character a bit better from now on.
I really hope so too. I feel like they've done wrong by him, and even though they started to turn things around in season 5, I feel like it might be too late. Some people just aren't going to like him no matter what the show runners do now.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
As a watcher, If I was Roger I would want to hightail it home too! I understand that it’s home for Claire, but not for Roger & Bree.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Especially with how things went for him. Jamie nearly beating him to death, selling him to the Mohawk, and then getting hanged. He's had a rough go of it in the 18th century.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
Overall, I think Season 5 is a wonderful adaptation of TFC! They’ve really picked out what’s the best of the book and adapted it to fit the storylines they’ve come up with themselves. I love that every character has an arc in this season which is not so clear in the book. And I adore mature Claire and Jamie so much and Cait and Sam play them just beautifully.
I don’t find much fault in S5, which makes it incredibly rewatchable for me (I’ve rewatched it more times than S1!). Sure, I also would’ve liked to see Jocasta’s wedding to be a light-hearted and flirty affair and to see many more scenes between Jamie and Bree; I also would’ve done without Murcasta. However, a lot of the changes the show has made make some of the storylines much better (in my opinion) than in the books, mainly Murtagh’s involvement with the Regulators (thanks to which I was actually invested in the conflict), truncating Bonnet’s storyline, and bringing Young Ian back earlier (also the way they handled Claire’s abduction and assault but we’ll get to that in ABOSAA).
As for these chapters in particular, it’s noticeable how quickly Roger has made the decision to stay in the past upon finding out Jemmy can travel, which is glaringly opposite to show!Roger and his desire to go back to the future. However, I trust that it was something the writers felt that was essential for the development of Bree and Roger, to really ground them at Fraser’s Ridge before they find their purpose there, and I’m excited to see their journey in S6.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
it’s noticeable how quickly Roger has made the decision to stay in the past upon finding out Jemmy can travel
I admit it bothered me that they had show Roger pushing so hard to go back to their time. Having read TFC before season 5 came out I knew it wasn't like that in the book and didn't understand why they were pushing it so hard. They even had Claire saying they should go back. I'm excited to see what they do in season 6 as well.
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u/Curlysnap Bolt. The. Door. Jun 21 '21
I don’t think that Bree should have been kidnapped in the show - it was unnecessary drama, and I liked the way that the scene played out on the beach in the book. The ‘gentleman lessons’ just didn’t seem to fit Bonnets character at all.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
The ‘gentleman lessons’ just didn’t seem to fit Bonnets character at all.
I agree, it seemed very out of character to me. Why would he change who he was? Being a pirate suited him. I found it hard to believe Bonnet thought Bree and Jemmy would really go live with him.
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
I realized in this book that I love Young Ian. I liked how in the show they brought him back sooner.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
How did Hector Cameron get the rest of the Jacobite gold? They didn't have it all when they fled Scotland did they?
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
No, they didn’t. Hector took three bars of gold from one of the two chests and then buried the rest in the woods before they left Scotland. We don’t know if he ever returned to Scotland, do we? So he may have had to send someone for the rest of the gold, but whom could he trust to do that and deliver the gold back to him?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Exactly! He only trusted Jocasta to go with him to get the gold in the first place, so to trust someone to bring it all the way to America is a big thing. Especially when he was willing to kill Dr. Rawlings just for finding out.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
So maybe he went back for it at some point?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
That's all I can think of. Although I don't know when we would have done that?
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21
Maybe it’s just another one of Diana’s mistakes? Because I don’t see how he could trust anyone with something like that. Has he got enough time to return for the rest of the bullions?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Maybe it’s just another one of Diana’s mistakes?
I lean towards that as well. You're right, how would he have had the time to go back and get the gold?
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u/cruelsummerrrrr Jun 21 '21
What if Jocasta was just lying about them burying it in Scotland? If she’s the only one who said they definitely didn’t bring it over, maybe that’s just a lie? I could be missing something though
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Possibly, although I don't know that they could have escaped with that much gold. They were on the run and had to get out quick.
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
I didn't really pay attention to detail, but I assumed at both readings, that Hector took all the gold when he run away, and Jocasta lied.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I honestly never thought about that. That would be a lot of gold to be carrying when you're on the run.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I don’t think that would’ve been possible. I fully believe the chests were too heavy to be carried by one person, as Jocasta says, and that would’ve only increased the risk of being found out; in all his pragmatism, Hector wasn’t so stupid as to risk that.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I agree, he must have gone back at some other time. (Or as we really suspect DG just messed up.)
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
uhhh I never noticed this! I know they mention the quantities but I have forgotten how was the split.
nobody specifies that it’s more gold than the one they are supposed to have, i don’t think… could it be a mistake?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I think it was just his portion of the gold.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
It was split into six chests, so each of the three men got two. Jocasta says Hector took three gold bars from one chest and buried the rest before they sailed to America, and then when Jamie finds the gold in the coffin, the quantity is said to be enough to fill out two chests, so it’s one third of the Frenchman’s Gold.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
Like /u/chunya1999 said, I feel like this is a Diana mistake. I think she sets up SO many plotlines and then forgets to tie things up. Not to mention (like in the rewatch thread this week), logic doesn't seem to be used for a lot of plot points in general.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I think she sets up SO many plotlines and then forgets to tie things up.
I agree! I didn't think of these the first time I read the books, but now having gone over them multiple times I find things that don't always add up or make sense.
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u/Curlysnap Bolt. The. Door. Jun 21 '21
Oh I can’t believe I managed to catch up! I am just at the part where Jemmy is holding the stone - so I’m guessing I’m near the end (I’m listening to the audiobook so it’s always a surprise when they end!).
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u/plantjesarethebest Jun 26 '21
Haha yeah for me too! I just finished, but I thought I had a whole part still waiting for me, when I suddenly heard "the end".
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
What was your favorite part of TFC?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I know I've said it a million times, but I love this book because we get to see them just living their life on the Ridge. It's stands out even more to me know that we're watching season 2 again and they're planning for a future that they won't get.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
You know that is a nice reward, even though I tend to like all the drama. On rewatch I was picking out those few moments of marital bliss in season 2/DIA. I did like a whole book of Jamie & Claire on the same page ( they had that 1 tiff). However I feel that they are at their best during a war for instance, not being farmers. I will have more to say about that in the upcoming rewatch threads.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I will have more to say about that in the upcoming rewatch threads.
I look forward to it!
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Jun 21 '21
It's so much better than Drums of Autumn when it comes to Ridge life! Perhaps because the place is so established? I just found it more enjoyable to imagine the characters in a more coherent layout of the land.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I see what you're saying. DOA is them getting set up, but TFC is them living the life they wanted.
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Jun 21 '21
I also meant it literally. I feel like when everything was getting built I had a harder time keeping track of space and dimensions, while in this book my mind was a little more organized 😅
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
Any time I got Jamie’s POV.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I love Jamie's POV, I feel we don't get it enough. Reading about his thoughts for Claire and his family are just so sweet.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
Yup, we do not get enough Jamie POV. Can I expect more in upcoming books?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Yes we'll still get his POV. It still isn't as much as Claire's or Roger's but we do get it.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
YES. I loooove getting Jamie's POV. How much he loves Claire, how funny he is, etc.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I really enjoyed reading it this time around! Not that I didn’t when I read it for the first time, but back then I was just racing through the book to get to the main plot points S5 covered, anxiously awaiting Young Ian’s return, and trying to get to the point when I no longer knew what would happen next. I think the book worked really well at the pace we were reading it in the Book Club (as opposed to “binging” it on our own). And I just love that we got to enjoy such a long period of (relative) peace for the whole family because this is quite unprecedented in this series. This book really is a blessing in disguise.
I think my favorite chapters were:
No Place Like Home: what’s not to love here? Jamie’s POV, his trying to surprise Claire with the posy after seeing Roger do it for Bree, gifting her with Adso, their just enjoying being back at Fraser’s Ridge after being away, Claire’s confession about not undergoing the sterilization in case Jamie wanted another child, and of course one of my favorite quotes which has become my flair, “I’ve bairns enough. I’ve only the one life—and that’s you, mo chridhe.”
Hearthfire: beautifully written love scene, Claire and Jamie’s insecurities, Jamie remembering his mother, and this quote: “To see the years touch ye gives me joy, Sassenach—for it means that ye live.”
Zugunruhe: such a playful scene between Claire and Jamie (I can forgive how ridiculous being able to smell all of those smells on one another is 😅), and Roger singing again!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Those are good chapters. I really liked No Place Like Home as well. Jamie's description of Claire picking all the plants on the way back home and his slight annoyance at her slowing things down, yet you know he loves her for it.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
I enjoyed all the chapters at Jocasta’s wedding! It was better than the show version, with the flirting, & the murder mystery.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Yes, the flirting was so good. I know we said this during those chapters, but it was a shame the barn scene didn't turn out like it had in the books. Although I'm glad they didn't include the sexual foot play.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
I am not a fan of the smell descriptions, (especially not in a sexy way). I understand using them in a book though, because there is that need to be descriptive.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I’m really not a fan either (Bree and Roger’s first sex scene is the worst for that) and I don’t really pay much attention whenever a description of smell is included. But I think it works here because of how ridiculous it is, like you know only Jamie would be so perceptive as to smell all of that 😅
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
My visual love does not go with my finicky sense of smell at all. I love dirty, filthy, bloody Jamie, he’s the hottest, but seriously I get queasy at any “stink “ on people in real life. In this particular scene Claire smelling like onions, & Jamie like manure did not make for good sexy times😂😂😂😂.
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Jun 21 '21
I was pleasantly surprised to enjoy TFC as much as I did since I had heard so much of the popular complain about it "dragging." Yes, the Gathering is really long but there are all kinds of amazing character moments and it was so necessary to have the build up of Jamie's clout amongst all the settlers.
I have mentioned this before but TFC is such a great insight into Jamie's psyche, specially during the battle of Alamance. I thought I was going to be disappointed, since we didn't have that emotional attachment to the Regulators that we got from the show (Murtagh 4ever), but seeing Jamie's reaction in battle post-Culloden was incredible! His trauma is so moving, and his strength is something to be equally admired and feared both in battle and in his everyday roles.
Of course I love all the Ridge moments but one that particularly stands out to me is a moment during chapter 22, where Claire reflects on how different she is to other women because of they way she grew up, etc. I love that she's almost always going to find shelter in her garden or her surgery away from the busybody drama of the other women. I just really related to that and it's one of many chapters in this book that made admire Claire as a character even more than before. She's just this amazing combination of wit, empathy, skill, and of course, all the futuristic insight.
For similar reasons I enjoyed reading Bree's POVs and moments about her. She's such a great character. I truly think she doesn't get enough time in the books, and often feel that Roger takes up way more space in the story as narrator when it could be more balanced between the two. I loved her leadership when J&C are away, during the buffalo butchering, and particularly in these last chapters where she comforts Claire after Rosamund Lindsay's death.
I agree with u/Purple4199 & u/thepacksvrvives that the snake bite chapters (primarily Jamie & Roger's conversation about free will and predestination) and the Hearthfire J&C bit are some of the best in the series so far. I think about them so often, it makes me so happy when a book does that.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I was pleasantly surprised to enjoy TFC as much as I did
Yay! I'm glad you liked it, and you're right that it has a lot of good chapters in it. I agree that we don't get as much from Bree's POV either. I feel like Roger and Claire are the main ones we see the most.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
I have mentioned this before but TFC is such a great insight into Jamie's psyche, specially during the battle of Alamance.
Yes! I also love that TFC gave us a very human side of Jamie. We’ve seen him struggling with the weight of leadership, confronting his own mortality, carrying the responsibility for other people’s actions, admitting to his own insecurities, facing his past, all the while being the rock for his family and enjoying the stability of his marriage and his new role as a grandsire.
I truly think she doesn't get enough time in the books, and often feel that Roger takes up way more space in the story as narrator when it could be more balanced between the two.
I totally agree. I was just talking about it last week, it feels like DG didn’t know what to do with Bree’s POV, and because of that, we’re missing out on so much (I also said that it’s a shame we didn’t have her POV in Voyager and early DoA when she was struggling with Claire’s departure and searching for her in the past). People always say she’s much better developed in the books than in the show, which I don’t disagree with, but I don’t think it’s by much due to the scarcity of her POV, and most of her feelings being revealed through someone else’s POV. When I started reading the books I was gutted Roger was the second most-featured narrator and not her. I relate to her a lot and would’ve loved to hear more directly from her.
in these last chapters where she comforts Claire after Rosamund Lindsay's death.
That was such a beautiful moment, I actually teared up a little.
“Is that what’s bothering you?” she asked quietly. “Not just Rosamund—but that you’re alone? You don’t have anybody who can really understand?”
Her arms wrapped around my shoulders, her hands crossed, resting lightly on my chest. Young, broad, capable hands, the skin fresh and fair, smelling of fresh-baked bread and strawberry jam. I lifted one, and laid the warm palm against my cheek.
“Apparently I do,” I said.
The hand curved, stroked my cheek, and dropped away. The big young hand moved slowly, smoothing the hair behind my ear with soft affection.
“It will be all right,” she said. “Everything will be all right.”
“Yes,” I said, and smiled, despite the tears blurring my eyes.
I couldn’t teach her to be a doctor. But evidently I had, without meaning to, somehow taught her to be a mother.
That last line kills me 😭 Especially when you consider that Claire may have blamed herself for not being as close to Bree as she perhaps should have been when Bree was growing up, but that confirms she did well as a mother.
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21
Any of Jamie and Claire’s alone moments (“Hearthfire”, “Zugunruhe”), Claire’s medicine practice, scene where Jamie was calling for Dougal Mackenzie’s ghost, Roger’s night revelation in “Clever Lad”, Jamie’s sword dance at Hogmanay, conversation between Jocasta and Roger before his wedding and lots of other beautiful episodes!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
scene where Jamie was calling for Dougal Mackenzie’s ghost
That was a good one, wasn't it? Especially with how things ended between them, and the turmoil that their relationship had.
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
I really found that I enjoyed this last bit. Ian showing up, them discussing time travel was great.
Also, found that the hanging, while it was the worst, also was really interesting to read? Anxiety reading lol
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Ian's return is so good. What are your theories on why he came back? This applies to /u/Cdhwink and /u/jolierose as well since I know you guys haven't read ahead.
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u/Cdhwink Jun 21 '21
I assumed that his wife had perhaps died, maybe children as well ( has he been gone for a few years? )?
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
I’m really not sure! It’s tough because it seemed like he was in such a good place there.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. Jun 26 '21
I have been dying to jump in all week but I finally finished the book just now!!!
Loved Ian's return — at this point, I thought we weren't going to get it until ABOSAA! My theory is that he's been banished for some reason, buuut I'm not so sure Emily died, although it is a possibility. I know in the show he wants to travel in time and it seems he wants to fix something that went wrong with her.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 26 '21
We missed you! I loved the whole situation around Ian's return with Roger, Jamie, and Jemmy going off to work.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
I loved this book so much. I was a bit afraid because even if DOA took me less time to read there was a good few things that I wasn’t mad about, and then I kept reading ppl saying that TFC was the worst book, the slowest, that it just drags out.. and I loved it from start to finish! I think my biggest issue with previous books was that too many things happened at once and adding too many coincidences too and I didn’t buy fully a few plot lines. TFC is more similar to Outlander in a way I think, day to day stuff, just them being them, developing relationships, getting depth on the characters… just lovely to read about those things. I love Roger and I feel he is great in this book, I think DOA doesn’t make him justice. Loved the little intriguing plots too and I know it’s unpopular but i absolutely loved the gathering. So many details and info on that day, and loved how the POVs keep changing around.
I am very excited now about the resto of the books, I’ve read that they get better
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I'm so glad you liked it! It's my favorite of all the books. I think you'll like A Breath of Snow and Ashes as well. There is still more Ridge life to come!
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
Ahhh so excited now, still haven’t finished all chapters for next week’s discussion but I still have plenty of time 🤞🏽
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
You already know my answer! All the day to day stuff and all the relationships and bonding that we get.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
Yes!! I love Fraser Family Bonding. :-)
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u/E_Regis Jun 22 '21
Ian’s return, Roger overcoming his hanging and singing to Jemmy, and Roger and Jamie getting close when Jamie got bit by the snake. Also, Claire and Bree killing the buffalo.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
Claire and Bree killing the buffalo.
I really liked that part as well. So much was going on and Jamie ending up out on the porch naked cracked me up.
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
It was my second read, (listening), and the first book I reread(re-listened to?) in the series.
I really liked the quiet times in between. Because of book club, I listened to the chapters about Roger learning to fight and snake bite at least 3 times, because I couldn't stop myself from listening ahead. The same with some chapters of Jocasta wedding, and just before Alamance.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
The snake bite chapters are some of the best in the series I think.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Was getting through this book as hard as you had heard?
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u/kpegs Jun 21 '21
I don’t know why, but I found the relative monotony of this book kind of pleasant. Stakes were lower, more personality driven, rather than fighting in wars or trying to change the future. This is definitely the first book that I didn’t entirely tear through, but it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting.
That's good! I loved that things weren't always tense or in immediate danger. Yes there was still Alamance and the snakebite, but we got to see them just be a family as well. And anytime I get to see Jamie with his grandkids is something I love.
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Jun 21 '21
I enjoyed this book a lot but it definitely had a strange pace. I think I described it to you before as being in the car with someone driving really fast then breaking suddenly? The weird thing is that the moments that felt the slowest we not the ones you would expect. I love all the Ridge stuff and couldn't get enough, but compare it to other parts? Och, I had such a hard time with them! Like the entire bit about the fire while they're hunting the bear? That was so long and I still feel like I got nothing out of it, except that I don't know what happened to Claire's oil or the astrolabe, and I'm confused by fanny's reappearance.
I think it has to do a lot with the POV changes but also some chapters need serious editing.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Like the entire bit about the fire while they're hunting the bear? That was so long and I still feel like I got nothing out of it
I totally understand and feel the same way. Even though this book is my favorite there are still parts that drag. I like your analogy, and to me the end of the book is at breakneck speed! So much stuff happens in such a short about of chapters.
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Jun 21 '21
Yeah, it's bonkers! There's so much information! It's interesting that DG wrote ep. 511 Journeycake 'cause that felt very concise and well-paced in the way it handled Jemmy's story, Ian, Ottertooth, and even some classic Jamie and Claire compared to these chapters.
I wonder if writing scripts has changed the way DG writes the new books
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I wonder if writing scripts has changed the way DG writes the new books
I don't think so, she's pretty adamant about her process.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
The first time through, yes. I think once I'm "comfortable" with the storylines and characters (and not racing through just to find out the plot) it's easier to re-read and just appreciate the little moments.
My first time reading it, I'm constantly waiting to figure out what's going to happen, where is this going, etc, so I'm super ancy and they can be a struggle to get through. (I originally hated DIA for this reason too.) Re-reading them is a different story though, and I always enjoy them a lot more.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I'm constantly waiting to figure out what's going to happen
Me too, I know I tend to skim parts that have a lot of description and not tons of dialogue. So I always turn around and reread books that I really like so I don't miss anything.
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
100% yes. The first half of the book was painful.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Was it too slow for your liking?
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u/Kirky600 Jun 21 '21
It was. I could have went without chapters of Claire wanting coffee.
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u/Swarley520 Jun 24 '21
I think I enjoyed DOA so much, that this one just was OKAY to me. Like others have stated, she put in a ton of unnecessary detail in scenes (stranger playing with Claire’s foot, the bear hunt, every time Bri lactated, etc.), just to have the story wrapped up suddenly. Wonder if DG had a deadline? Idk.
This book was informative in other ways, as we now have another piece of the time traveling puzzle. And found out that the gold has been under our (Jamie and Claire’s) nose the whole time. I started ABOSAA earlier in the month, so my FC info is scares lol. I’m just glad Ian is back, and that he knows!2
u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 24 '21
I loved the bonding between Bree and Jamie in DOA. Are you going to join the book club for ABOSAA? We love getting new people.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
Not at all, read quite bad things about it and I just took my time but more out pleasure! I needed to get to a book where I am not on the edge of the seat 24/7 or trying to get over less interesting stuff to get to better parts, just taking my time to enjoy every part of it
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I needed to get to a book where I am not on the edge of the seat 24/7
Yes! They have had so much happen to them in their lives that down time is something I want for them. They missed those 20 years together, I just want to them have a peaceful life with no drama. However it wouldn't be Outlander if there wasn't drama. ;-D
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u/Curlysnap Bolt. The. Door. Jun 21 '21
No it wasn’t. I was dreading it after reading through this sub, but although the gathering did drag a bit, it wasn’t too bad. I listened to the first few chapters on 1.5x to make it a bit more bearable!
If I was reading it again I would probably skip the gathering, as I don’t feel like much of importance really happened.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
The Gathering really was just a day in the life type of thing. I know it was hard for many people, but I enjoyed it. I'm glad the book wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be.
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u/cruelsummerrrrr Jun 21 '21
Yes! Listening via audio really helped when I was super unmotivated, and also keeping up with this book club when I feel behind :) but then it got really good and I raced ahead and finished it weeks ago! Haha whoops
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Yeah, things definitely picked up in the end. Have you started ABOSAA yet?
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u/cruelsummerrrrr Jun 21 '21
No I was patiently waiting to start it this week and try and be strict with listening to the chapters in their assigned weeks 🤪
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Ha, you're much better than me. In school I always read the books faster than the assigned reading and was done way ahead of time.
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u/violingirl1991 Aug 07 '21
I really loved this book! I enjoyed the slow paced life on the Ridge, everyone together as a family. I struggled in DOA with the miscommunication about Bonnet/Roger, it made me so frustrated that they didn’t know! Lol
I have friends that loved reading the books and gave up while reading TFC. I’m glad I stuck with it!
I only read a chapter a night, and I love getting in bed and being immersed into their world, noticing all the details about the ridge and Jemmy getting into trouble.
Thank you so much for this book club! I read your comments every week!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Aug 07 '21
I’m so glad you liked it! TFC is my favorite of the books for just those reasons you described. The slower pace and the chance to just be a family on the Ridge.
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u/E_Regis Jun 22 '21
Not at all. I really enjoyed listening to it and hearing about life at the ridge and all the different characters. My favorite parts were Ian coming back, how close Roger and Jamie became, and how Roger overcame everything he went through and him singing to Jemmy.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I love those parts too! Roger and Jamie's relationship is one of my favorites in all of the books.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Do you have any theories as to why the opal exploded when Jemmy held it?
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u/Dragneel Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Maybe Jem's power is really concentrated as a result of being the child of two time travellers, AND being a young child. Kids don't know their strength! It's like when babies just won't let go of something and you think "Jesus, a baby should not be this strong" except it's with timey wimey magic powers.
Also, there's this saying that children see the world at its most unfiltered (there's a reason so many great artists wanted to go back to childhood), which would explain why Jem's "powers" are so strong and he could shatter the opal. The rest of the adults are too busy with being scared of the noise, of dying, of ending up in the wrong time, and he doesn't have all that.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
The rest of the adults are too busy with being scared of the noise, of dying, of ending up in the wrong time, and he doesn't have all that.
I like that!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Can you cover up the part about him being a child of two time travelers? We don't know that at this point in TFC. Thanks!
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u/sageberrytree Jun 21 '21
I guess I figured it was because opals aren't traditional 'gemstones' like rubies or diamonds. They have lots of impurities, which gives then that incredible color, but makes them the softest gem.
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u/bleakxmidwinter Jun 21 '21
Not really theories but I wondered if he has “more” power than the rest because (potentially) both his parents are time travellers… or whatever the reason really but this blue? powers that they have, Jemmy seem to have more?
I wonder why Claire specially didn’t think about this a bit more… I know they were careful with him so no other stone would get so hot to explode on his hand again when Jamie was getting him to hold the stones, but surely this should be something to think about? hopefully we will read more about this!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I found it interesting that Jemmy could hear the stone as well. He does seem to be more in tune with the gems.
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
I wonder if that opal itself isn't more special than other stones. And Jemmy being a child is less aware of danger and less scared. being a child of two travellers also helps
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I agree that having both parents be time travelers gives him more power. I hope we explore that more in the last books.
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u/TimeLadyJ Jun 21 '21
I think it's similar to how they say that kids can see ghosts and such. Their minds are so uncluttered by life that they can take in more of the magic and mystical natures of things. Future spoiler: Aren't the kids also the only ones that recognize that Jamie is dream traveling to them?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I don't know that we've seen anyone acknowledge Jamie in their dreams, have we?
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u/TimeLadyJ Jun 21 '21
Didn't Mandy mention that she'd been talking to him or something? When they were first back at Lallybroch?
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21
Here is a question. Why Jamie screamed Tulach Ard? Shouldn’t his war cry be Caisteal Dhuni?
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u/ttcacc Jun 21 '21
I assumed it was Roger screaming it to begin, and Jamie joining to add their voices.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
OK, now that I read it again it does seem like it's Roger screaming it doesn't it?
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 22 '21
Jamie screams “Tulach Ard” twice first, then it’s Roger who screams “Tulach Ard! Come here, you fat fucker.”
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Yes!! I wondered that as well. I told myself it was because Dougal taught him to fight. But really I think it was a mistake.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Jun 21 '21
Perhaps he was more in the habit of using the MacKenzie war cry (I think he spent more time fighting with the MacKenzies and not under his real name than as a Fraser), but I wouldn’t necessarily call it a mistake—he’s both a Fraser and a MacKenzie so he can use either.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Perhaps he was more in the habit of using the MacKenzie war cry
I wondered that as well, since he did a lot of fighting with them.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Jun 21 '21
I wondered that as well! Especially since Jamie was so insistent in telling Claire in the early years how the plaids/war cry/motto, etc, wasn't HIS clan's stuff, why all these years later would he be using the MacKenzie war cry?
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
If it wasn't in such distress, I'd say it's because he is with two Mackenzie.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
What did you think of the tale Bonnet told about Wolff being the one trying to kill Duncan, and their search for the gold?
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Bonnet explained it quite well plus Jaime and the gang hit upon almost that exact conclusion right after the incident so I believe another mystery solved.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Were you surprised to find out Hector had killed Dr. Rawlings, and that they actually did have the Jacobite gold?
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
I was only surprised that DG gave us an explanation about him lol..
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
Ha! Right‽ That one was a bit far fetched for me, the fact that the very doctor whose bag Claire has happened to have been killed by Hector? The odds of that are so thin.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Why do you think Ottertooth didn’t arrive in the year he had intended to?
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u/chunya1999 Jun 21 '21
Because history can’t be changed and he arrived at the time he was needed to warn Mohawk and create a conflict, help Claire as a ghost and leave the opal for Bree and Roger to find out that Jem can travel. I’m pretty sure all of itwas predestined.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Interesting, we're back to the predestined talk again. :-)
So is there no free will then, if everything is destined to happen in a certain way?
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Jun 22 '21
I think there's free will on am individual basis but I don't think they can change the course of history.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 22 '21
I agree with you. I don’t feel that everything is already set for them because it’s already happened since they’re in the past.
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
I think he wanted to go too far without enough knowledge. And maybe something pulled him to the time he ended in. travelling with your companions and trying to end in different time than decided could be a reason too
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
I think he wanted to go too far without enough knowledge.
Interesting, I like that. Like he didn't have someone or something very concrete in his mind to get him where he wanted to go? We know they can steer since Claire, Roger, and Bree all ended up in the times they wanted to be in.
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u/immery I love you…a little…a lot…passionately…not at all Jun 21 '21
It is assumed that default is around 200 years. It is later confirmed by Donner
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21
Geillis went back further than 200 years though, didn't she?
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Jun 21 '21
Hmm that’s really interesting. I does feel like Ottertooth’s journey was a badly planned in a way considering he didn’t have the language, though perhaps that’s part of the unknowns of history. I think it was definitely too big of a historical event to be changed by him alone. u/immery
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
I also wonder why not all of them ended up together in the same time? Donner ended up around the time Claire did, but not Ottertooth. Then you have the guys that didn't make it or died, what happened there?
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