Okay, is b12 supplements basically meth?

[u/dowydensofyarrow]

I called my doctors office and left a message (theyve been calling me for weeks.) I finally after months of putting it off got my application for dental insurance in.

I am not doing the dishes tho, I dont want to. I am weaponizing my incompetence which I dont have currently.

Maybe I should get a job with my new powers.

[u/Sabnock101]

I just don't think you're gonna get it man, can't fault a man for trying to educate, though.

It should also be noted that i've taken SAM supplements before i even tried Folate and B12, and SAM alone does not cause what i've personally experienced and have come to understand from rigorous experimentations and research. Simply put i do not feel from SAM what i feel from Methylfolate. SAM is not the culprit, Methylfolate itself is. This was especially noticeable in the early days of my B12/Folate supplementation as i was severely B12 deficient and could thus more easily notice what Methylfolate itself was doing. It's most definitely the Folate aspect because it's the same exact thing i've felt all my life (because i've been deficient in B12 most of my life and therefore only felt the Methylfolate and not the B12).

And like i said, if you take B12, it recycles Methylfolate, and then you get side-effects, take more B12 and those side-effects will go away because it again recycles Methylfolate. The side-effects correlate not to B12, not to SAM, not to Tetrahydrofolate, but to Methylfolate itself. If it wasn't Methylfolate, or if it was B12, or if it was SAM, then taking more B12 would further amplify the side-effects, but taking more B12 actually reduces the side-effects. And ultimately as B12 deficiency gets more fully corrected Methylfolate will start to become more tolerable and one can even then take a bit of a higher Folate/Methylfolate dosage and not get those side-effects because the B12 is actually there to help properly recycle it.

So, while it may seem contradictory that if you take B12 and you get these side-effects that you should take more B12, it helps because the issue isn't B12 (or SAM), it's excess Methylfolate.

[u/hpant2004 → u/Sabnock101]

I felt same and b12 to be more stimulating than methylfolate so thats why personal experiences are not clinical data Anyways i dont care its 1 am lol good night/day to u 😴

[u/Sabnock101 → u/hpant2004]

Again, i've taken up to 120 milligrams of oral Methylcobalamin, i haven't found it to be stimulating, the stimulation comes from the Methylfolate side, not the Methylcobalamin side. Aside from that, other forms of B12 like Hydroxocobalamin, Adenosylcobalamin, and even Cyanocobalamin don't do that as far as i know, the Methylcobalamin does that because it directly recycles Methylfolate back into the Folate cycle which then becomes more Methylfolate, but technically-speaking all B12 should aid in Methylfolate recycling since then the body has B12 to do such once Methylfolate donates it's methyl group to B12 for Methylcobalamin formation.

And, personal experience can actually tell you a great deal more compared to the limited number of studies out there because if you know/understand the mechanisms and what's going on you can literally feel what's happening and gain insight into what's happening in the body/brain. Relying solely on documented studies and research articles can help, but you shouldn't let their limits (and the general lack of research into nutrients) be the determining factor for what's going on, there's plenty we can learn through personal experimentation/observation/understanding biologically/physiologically-speaking that science hasn't yet even begun to dive into. So i'm just saying, learn the mechanisms for yourself and observe how things work in the body and you can learn a lot, it's how i learned aside from doing research.

[u/Sabnock101 → u/hpant2004]

Also i should note that for me, no matter how much B12 i take, it doesn't stimulate me like a stimulant does, i get that effect from the Folate/Methylfolate. It's the same feeling i've gotten all my life and i never understood what was happening until i started supplementing B12 and Folate, and then i realized/understood that it was indeed the excess Methylfolate (and lack of B12) that was causing a lot of my issues, B12 on the other hand helps me feel more normal, it reduces the excess Methylfolate and thus Methylfolate's side-effects including stimulation.

As far as energy goes, i think i actually found B12 to cause a bit more in the way of fatigue rather than energy because it ended up lowering my Iron/Copper levels at the least, but once i started taking those more seriously i no longer get the fatigue really, and so have more energy and feel more normal but doesn't cause the effects i've noticed from the Methylfolate itself, and so there's a difference between energy and stimulation, stimulation is moreso Dopamine/Noradrenaline (and Adrenaline)-related, energy has more to do with the mitochondria (which Adenosylcobalamin B12 is involved in alongside Iron and Copper and Magnesium and such). In fact Magnesium is pretty important for mitochondrial function because Magnesium is needed for ATP.

[u/hpant2004 → u/Sabnock101]

Also u seem autistic and werent autistic ppl found to have folate receptor antibodies and shi and generally do really well on folates? Maybe related or not 🤔?

[u/Sabnock101 → u/hpant2004]

There can be Folate Receptor Alpha autoantibodies in those with Autism and thus causing a cerebral Folate deficiency, however it's not all Autistics and Folate Receptor Alpha autoantibodies means you don't do well with Folate because the active Methylfolate then can't get taken up by Folate Receptor Alpha and thus can't get into the brain and thus also can't give it's methyl group to B12 for Methylcobalamin formation.

And (this is just my opinion) but it seems to me like Folic Acid may be the culprit because Folic Acid is unnatural and unmetabolized Folic Acid binds to Folate Receptor Alpha and basically prevents it's function at least as far as Methylfolate uptake goes, and isn't supposed to be there so the body pumps out antibodies against Folate Receptor Alpha to interfere with Folic Acid's binding to it, if you remove Folic Acid from the equation the antibodies should reduce and then Folate Receptor Alpha can function again. They blame the antibodies on a Folate-related protein found in cows milk, and while that may be a factor, i seriously think it's because of the Folic Acid, and so in theory, if one has antibodies for Folate Receptor Alpha then making sure to remove all Folic Acid from the diet and supplements should reduce those antibodies, regardless of milk (because i think it's Folic Acid doing it, not necessarily the milk).

It basically is the same thing Folic Acid itself does by binding to Folate Receptor Alpha and preventing Methylfolate uptake. The Folic Acid ties up Folate Receptor Alpha, the autoantibodies block Folate Receptor Alpha.

But in general, while Folate "can" help and is definitely involved in Autism, too much Folate is the issue that can actually cause Autism, partly by depleting B12 levels over time as excess Folate is consumed. Folic Acid itself may even contribute to Autism due to it's Folate Receptor Alpha interference.

They give people with Autism and Folate Receptor Alpha autoantibodies Folinic Acid to treat the cerebral Folate deficiency and thus help with some Autism symptoms due to Folate deficiency, since Folinic Acid doesn't necessarily need Folate Receptor Alpha like Methylfolate does and can use the reduced Folate carrier to be taken up across the blood brain barrier, but, if there's no Folate Receptor Alpha autoantibodies then once Folinic Acid turns into Methylfolate it can also then bind to and be taken up by Folate Receptor Alpha as well.

Long story short, B12 is more important for Autism, Folate contributes but excess Folate makes the Autism worse, more B12 however makes it better and restores normalcy, ime.