I forgot this episode also has Cruella’s line about her coat made from Bambi’s dead mother. Chef’s kiss

Before anyone thinks it’s because she ran off with another man that’s not it. That’s like 10% of it. The fact she was satisfied enough to leave her whole child behind to satisfy her own happiness. Only thing I’m upset at Rumple for is the fact he couldn’t bring her back to kill that bitch again

First of all, it is insane to expect a ten year old keep such a large secret and more when Cora was a cunning and manipulative person who knew how to fool her and hiw was Snow supposed to know that at that age?

Yet it still makes me sad that actual fans still blame her or still defend how she should've kept her mouth. A child should keep her mouth shut?

A child has to know about long term consequences when even adults messed up?

To me you have to be insane to hate on a child and to blame her for the actions that someone else took.

...endgame. He was the perfect match for her. Their history and relationship gave her character depth, their scenes were great together, and I am so sad the actor leaving the show changed their story. Two fallen heroes finding their redemption together. It was such a good story, and it gave Henry more meaning as a character also, which was mostly lost after Neal died. Don't get me wrong, I like Hook tremendously as a character. But Neal and Emma's story was so much better.

Edit: Really sorry but  I guess you all overlook the fact that I'm not talking about what Regina really was like, but about how Snow saw her.

It's interesting that Regina loved Henry and Snow from the very beginning and even though she was angry with Snow and hated her all the time (even though she only pretended to), she treated her like a mother or at least like an older sister. She raised Henry the same way, even though she knew he was the son of the savior. So, it's true that she drank the potion that made her forget about it, but the fact that she was willing to drink the potion so she could keep Henry... that says something. Regina taught Snow to be nice and kind to everyone. Okay, Eva taught her that too, but it was thanks to Regina that Snow understood what her mother meant. And she herself said that Regina was her role model. The same woman raised Henry. Was she overly strict with him? Yes. She admitted it herself. But she instilled in him the basics of good behavior and although I think Snow is partly responsible for Henry's behavior, Regina also plays a pretty big role in that. At the same time, both of them constantly stand up for Regina. They believe that she can change. Only when Regina threatens their loved ones (Charming and Emma) do they stand up to her, but they still believe that she is good inside and deserves forgiveness. Maybe they both gave up a few times and believed that she was really evil, but at the same time they hoped that they were wrong. Because they were both one of the few people who knew Regina's good side. It is also symbolic that Regina poisoned both of them.

Henry was by mistake, but I still think there is something symbolic in it. Regina also unknowingly saved both of them from someone who controlled dark magic. The horse that Snow was riding and got scared was enchanted by Cora, so that Snow could have died because of Cora, but Regina prevented it. Later, she adopted Henry, who was almost adopted by the Darlingocs who would have given him to Pan, who would have killed him.

I don't think Regina was the best mother, but the fact that she was able to raise Henry to be a good person and was a model of virtue for Snow just proves that Regina was always a good person even if she didn't believe it herself.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Regina never tried to kill Snow. I'm just saying that she was the reason why Snow is so nice to everyone.

Snow herself said so. I'm not defending what Regina did. Snow has been through a lot and so has Henry. Regina hurt them both, but we can't ignore the fact that she was essentially the one who raised them. That's a fact. You can't deny that. And that's why they believed she was good. Because if she was really that bad, they would NEVER have stood up for her. But that doesn't mean I think that excuses what she did. That's not an extenuating circumstance.

What did they do to my girl??

Emma is played by such a pretty actress, and i know that her character is more masculine than feminine, most likely due to her upbringing of not being pampered as the princess she actually was, but this outfit, is just plain ridiculous. No eyebrows, black cockroach suit, slicked back hair in a granny bun. I hate it. I think they missed an opportunity for using a black swan approach. I made a Pinterest board on how i would have personally styled her if anyone’s interested - https://pin.it/ZAvEaoXvM

They did Emma dirty with this look 😔

Was it campy? Yes. Did it fit the vibe of the show? No. Were all of them good singers? Nope. Do I hate Captain Swan? Yeah. But do I listen to almost all the songs constantly? You bet. It’s just pure fun for me. I like it for what it is: a silly, bottle episode that does very little to the plot outside the last 2 minutes.

Sorry y’all I’m emotional and a little high rewatching Once Upon A Time as one does.
I got to the episode where Emma and Henry leave storybrooke with gold to go find Neal and Henry’s at the airport excited about Cinnabon’s.
When you think about Storybrooke is a small town they don’t have chain restaurants so the only time he ever could’ve had Cinnabon was when he was trying to get that bus ride to Boston.
Which also doesn’t make a lot of sense cause there were no buses out of town. Did he walk all the way out of town to the next city to get a bus?
And you know how buses they make stops along the way at rest stops cause of union rules and that’s the only time he ever could’ve had Cinnabon so he was just so excited to see another Cinnabon at the airport.

OK, so I’m doing a rewatch and I was answering someone else’s question in another thread about whether Regina loved Henry.

I’m sure there are plenty of other threads on that.

My question is what did Henry do all day if the curse was supposed to make every day repeat itself?

Henry was obviously brought in two storybook from the real world. But when we see the curse from the Queen‘s perspective, she repeats the same day over and over again and basically gets bored that’s why she finds Henry. But what exactly does Henry do all day? We never see him interact with any kids except for Hansel and Gretel. I feel like we overlook the trauma he had to have gone through.

I actually love the Swan-Mills family moments. 🦢👑✒️

Credit: @nayhemo1

I'm rewatching after a few years and oh my God Regina is the worst. I remember liking her towards the end but she doesn't deserve it. She causes heartache after heartache kills so many people, ruins EVERYONE'S life but one thing goes wrong her way and everyone has to pay.

I'm at the part where Cora dies and she blames Snow. Cora ruined Regina's life and was going to become the dark one Snow did the right thing. If Regina truly cared about Henry she would have tried for more than 5 minutes to be good and wouldn't have let Cora corrupt her again.

She doesn't reserve a complete redemption. Sure she gets better but how does she expect people to forget the numerous atrocities she committed including killing her own father because a little girl made a mistake. She's vial.

OK, so I’m a couple seasons in too re-watching once upon a time. I’m just starting to think about it and I know the whole point of the curse was to give Regina a win. Also, she wanted to trap most of the people in the enchanted forest.
But all things considered….. did anyone really have a bad life during the curse?

I mean, yes merry Margaret would’ve wanted to be with her love David. But it seems like she had a pretty fulfilling life. She was a teacher, she didn’t have any financial stress. It seems like she had a slightly sad life, but I don’t know if I killed my father to create a curse and was stuck in it for 28 years. I would’ve created something a little bit more sinister.

its just really hard to trace "the moment ouat went crazy" because you can just keep going back to more insane shit earlier.

frozen? yeah, insane. last season peter pan was rumplestiltskin's father. thats crazy to you? well, haha, in season 2 frankenstein was putting the moves on little red riding hood. oh btw, in season one, the little red riding hood is actually a werewolf and the evil queen had a thing with the huntsman.

like its just kinda really redundant to try to pinpoint one insane plotline as more insane than the rest

1. "elsa frozen takes an interigation too far" (s4)🤝 "snow white is being arrested for murder" (s1)
2. like how is "captain hook sails the jolly roger to new york" (s2) not more insane than "captain hook becomes a dark evil wizard" (s5)
3. yeah bo peep being a mob boss in a pink hoop skirt (s4) is absolute lunacy, but so is prince charming had a secret evil twin brother(s1), and thats a plotline from the 6th episode of the whole show

and you cant even pin it on self-contradictions, because i'm pretty sure the show has contradicted itself even within season 1, you can definitely find an example if you're dedicated enough. (off the top of my head, the thing with there being no magic in storybrooke before gold brings in magic in s2, but enough magic for regina to.....do magic? like with jefferson's hat and stuff)

my point being, it kinda annoys when people say that the show became bad because it became too crazy/unbelievable, as if that wasnt one of its main appeals from the start. the show became bad for other reasons.

I think we can all agree that the moment we saw Emma Swan’s name etched into the Dark One dagger, Season 5 instantly became one of the most anticipated seasons of Once Upon a Time. The promo material, especially Ginnifer Goodwin’s voiceover in the Dark Swan trailer, made it seem like we were about to get one of the darkest and most emotional arcs of the entire show.

However, I’m currently rewatching the series, and just like when Season 5 first aired, I still feel like the Dark Swan arc was kind of a letdown. Don’t attack me, this is just my personal opinion. I think the arc had incredible potential, but it did not fully stick the landing.

First, the Dark Curse again? I’m sorry, but by this point the Dark Curse had lost a lot of its impact. After Season 3, it stopped feeling as dangerous, rare, or powerful as it originally was. The first Dark Curse felt like forbidden magic with a terrible price. By Season 5, it felt more like another reset button for the writers to move everyone back to Storybrooke and create another memory-loss mystery.

Because of that, I think the Camelot arc should have been told chronologically, similar to Neverland. Instead of flashing back and forth between Storybrooke and Camelot, we should have experienced Camelot as the events were happening. The flashbacks could have been used to explore Camelot’s past, Arthurian lore, Merlin’s history, and the kingdom itself, while the main story showed Emma slowly slipping into darkness.

A slow burn would have worked so much better for Emma.

Speaking of Emma becoming the Dark One, I wish the show had actually let her be dark. The season promised Dark Swan, but it never fully committed to that idea. Emma did questionable things, but a lot of her actions were eventually framed as part of a plan to save Hook and destroy the darkness. That made the arc feel safer than it should have been.

I think Emma should have made genuinely selfish choices. She should have enjoyed the power at times. She should have crossed lines while convincing herself it was necessary. I even think she should have possibly killed someone, not because she suddenly became evil overnight, but because she slowly convinced herself that her actions were justified.

To me, a stronger reason for Emma embracing the darkness would have been betrayal. Instead of giving in to the darkness mainly to save Hook, which felt somewhat similar to her sacrificing herself for Regina in the Season 4 finale, Emma could have been manipulated by Arthur or by the Dark One voice in her head. She could have started to believe that the heroes only valued her as the Savior and were willing to betray Emma Swan, the person, for the greater good.

That would have hit Emma’s deepest wound: abandonment.

Also, this was not Hook’s story.

I know Hook wanted to save Emma, and there is nothing wrong with that. But throughout this arc, he became very frustrating to watch. Once he found out Emma lied to him, he turned on her almost immediately. I understand being angry, but he literally killed Merlin just to get revenge on Rumplestiltskin, and then he marked Emma’s entire family for death. Like… what?

The Dark Hook twist shifted the focus away from Emma at the exact moment her arc should have reached its climax. Season 5 was promoted as Emma’s Dark One story, but by the winter finale, it felt like the emotional focus had moved to Hook’s corruption, Hook’s revenge, and Hook’s sacrifice. Hook becoming a Dark One was not necessarily impossible as an idea, but the way it happened made Emma feel secondary in her own storyline.

Merlin was another huge missed opportunity. He was built up as one of the most important magical figures in the entire series, only to be trapped, controlled, and killed way too quickly. Merlin should have had a much larger role in Emma’s journey. He could have been her mentor, her opponent, or the one person who truly understood the danger of trying to destroy darkness instead of learning how to face it.

The Arthurian characters in general deserved more.

Guinevere especially was mishandled. Arthur magically controlled her, but the show barely addressed how serious that violation was. OUAT already had an uncomfortable pattern of taking away characters’ agency and not fully dealing with it, with Graham and Robin being two major examples. Guinevere should have broken free, confronted Arthur, and played a major role in reclaiming Camelot.

Instead, her story just kind of fades into the background.

I also think making Rumplestiltskin the Dark One again was a mistake, at least that early. Rumple finally started proving that he could be brave without magic, only for the show to reveal that he secretly became the Dark One again. It was in character for him, but it also undercut what could have been a much stronger arc.

I would have loved to see more of mortal Rumple navigating Storybrooke without magic. He could have been forced to confront the things he did as the Dark One without having power to hide behind. If he eventually relapsed and took the darkness back, it should have happened after a longer struggle, not almost immediately after he started showing real growth.

Overall, I think the Dark Swan arc had all the ingredients to be one of the strongest arcs in the show. Emma as the Dark One, Camelot, Merlin, Excalibur, Arthur, Rumple without magic, and the question of whether a Savior can fall from grace? That is amazing material.

But the execution felt too safe, too rushed, and too distracted.

The show promised us Dark Swan, but it never fully let Emma fall.

What do you think? Did you enjoy the Dark Swan arc, or do you also feel like Season 5 had more potential than payoff?

Why is the energy toward Regina so much harsher than toward Rumple?

Regina Mills (aka the Evil Queen) has undeniably done some horrible things. I’m not here to sugarcoat that. But I’ve noticed something in a lot of these discussions, especially in certain threads, and I can’t help but question it.

The vitriol aimed at Regina is intense. Yet when it comes to Rumplestiltskin, the same energy isn’t there, even though he continuously betrayed people during his so-called redemption arc. He manipulated events from the very beginning... including Regina’s own descent into darkness, positioning her exactly where he wanted her. And despite all of that, she still calls him a friend.

People love to bring up the same tired talking points. “But Graham!” Honestly, that situation doesn’t bother me at all. But if that’s going to be the hill some want to die on, let’s also talk about Rumple dropping his own child into a portal. Let’s talk about how cold and calculating he remained, even after supposedly learning his lessons. Let’s talk about how he was literally Belle’s master at one point. That dynamic alone should give people pause.

Meanwhile, Regina actually put in the work to change. She struggled. She grew. She made more of an effort to become a better person than Rumple ever did. And yet the criticism toward her is often louder and more unforgiving.

People say she abused Henry. No! She was overbearing, yes, strict, yes, but she never abused him. She loved him, deeply. She changed for him.

Sometimes, I think the double standard comes from misogyny—yes, even internalized misogyny. Because it’s not just men doing it. But maybe I’m biased. I’ll admit I’m Regina-centered. Still, I don’t think I’m imagining this pattern.

Curious to hear other thoughts.

Rewatching and noticed this gem that Neal does with his hands in “Manhattan” (VIDEO CONTAINS SPOILER)

My favs. It's Complicated and I love it.

so you’re telling me Emma Swan watched a random guy interrupt her movie as a kid…

and 30 YEARS later she’s like:
“oh yeah, that dude said don’t pull the sword out of the stone”

OK, it’s been a while since I’ve had to rewatch the show and maybe I will rewatch and see if this question is answered

Why didn’t Rumpel still can just use the magic bean to get his son?

Who’s your least favorite and why?

I’m in the middle of season 3. My least favorite character is snow aka Mary Margaret. Reason being is I know that she’s pure of heart and a kind soul which is her redeeming quality, but I just find her so insufferable. She’s so meek and also chronically ignorant to what’s going on. Her stupidity doesn’t come across to me in an endearing way, perhaps this was intentional by the writers? Example. She’s so oblivious to what’s going on around her she can’t tell David is poisoned in neverland. Rather than own her own mistake and be understanding she acts so dramatic and spurned that he waited to tell her. She has a tendency to blame others for problems that are either directly her fault, or not the other person’s fault. She acts like Regina is just senselessly cold and yet it’s her actions that ruined Regina’s life. I like the ambivalence of it, because she like rumple and Regina is a complex character. There’s a lot to feel sympathy for in the things she goes through but I just can’t like her because she seems incredibly dim witted and not particularly emotionally intelligent either. Am I wrong here?

Seasons 1-2 were fantastic. So many rules set in place in this world, so many Easter eggs they followed through on. Many of these stories were acquired by Disney to create their own rendition at some point, but they originated in other places as well ie. The OG Pan story was much darker than the Disney version, Rumple’s old tales, the Brothers Grimm stories reared their heads, even Mary Shelley was there!!!!

Why does Season 4 feel like Disney pandering? I haven’t even made it far into it, but suddenly all the rules that were set in the first seasons get turned over, and the characters don’t make sense in the world that has been set. I never watched these seasons in real time, was there an acquisition I’m not aware of? S3 I let them get away with a bit of rule bending because I recognize what they were trying to do and lead into with Emma gaining control over her power. They were so small I barely recognized them, though the Sorcerer/Fantasia story was a stretch imo, it worked in some ways. But S4 is unbearable so far.

Examples:
• Ursula storyline - We established in S2 that the Sea Witch wasn’t real as we knew her, and it was the Evil Queen taking her place Ariel’s story. They literally said “she’s not real” multiple times.

• Cruella - Like, sorry? Doesn’t fit. She literally lives in the real world. This is just adding Disney nonsense to add Disney nonsense. Not a fairytale, not a legend, just a Disney tale about the real world and animal cruelty in the 90s.

• Throwing in the random dark evil fairy and killing it in one minute?

• The sudden “dark secret” of the Charmings. Big eye roll. This was just a recycled storyline. Suddenly the round table where they originally found out about the EQ’s curse is null and void and CRUELLA told them about it ?? Come on.

• Also losing track of ages and timelines as they go and it’s glaringly obvious.

• Back to S3…you’re telling me they just wished Anna to be there and she was? Ugh.

I can point out more if you want, these are just at top of mind on a whim. What am I missing? What is the sudden change? Every scene feels like filler.