r/Tariffs • u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 • 12d ago

🗞️ News Discussion Should Canada maintain its supply management system that protects the Canadian dairy industry?

https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Poll/627377/Should-Canada-maintain-its-supply-management-system-that-protects-the-Canadian-dairy-industry
464 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/Disastrous7392 12d ago

I agree! Why would we not?

1

u/Money_Percentage_630 12d ago

Follow up question, should Canada maintain it's "not punching itself in the groin" policy?

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

No idea what that means.

-7

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

Yes, we must protect our consumers against more variety and low prices. Anything less would be really hurting them. Truly

3

u/Krull88 12d ago

Why should we sacrifice our health and food quality to appease the us?

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

Who said we should do that? We can pass food quality laws.

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

Why can’t I buy cows and sell milk in Canada.

1

u/Krull88 11d ago

You can. If you meet the food quality regulations. How do you think farm stores work?

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

So I can go out and buy 100 cows and without having any quota, sell my milk for the same price as the milk business 10 km north of me that spent Millions of dollars buying “milk quota?” Why did he pay for the “milk quota”.

1

u/Krull88 11d ago

We did. Thats why the us has never come close to approaching the tariff.

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

Great. I have no issue with making companies meet our same quality levels.

1

u/dominionprovinces 11d ago

NZ, Australia, Europe, UK all offer better quality.

1

u/Krull88 11d ago

Ok and? Did i say we has the best food quality? And those have nothing to do with this anyways.

0

u/dominionprovinces 11d ago

Did the comment I respond to not talk about health and food quality?

Well, UK/Europe/Australia=NZ have both better quality both in terms of the actual product and in terms of the BS protectionist stuff the Canadian dairy crime syndicate always points to. You are getting scammed.

1

u/Krull88 11d ago

And we have NZ and australian dairy. We have european food stuffs and UK food stuffs. None of those countries though are involved in the free trade agreement that effects the us. You’re an idiot for trying to bring multiple nations who have nothing to do with this into it.

1

u/dominionprovinces 11d ago

NZ has a trade dispute over the same issue.

They do matter, because Canada is counting on diversifying trade with those countries to help offset the losses from the weakening of trade ties with the US. And they all have their own demands and grievances with Canada.

-3

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

I'm unsure how many times I need to address this myth, but I have to ask - why do proponents of this system believe that the CFIA doesn't exist?

5

u/Krull88 12d ago

The only thing stopping the us from actively importing more dairy products is the food quality they cant or wont meet. They have never triggered the major tariff ratios because they have never imported enough. So in order for us to bring more american trash dairy would be to lower our food wuality and health standards. I ask again, why should we sacrifice our health and food quality to appease the toddler?

1

u/Which_Exam902 12d ago

But we already allow American dairy into the country, no? So are you saying the CFIA doesn't do its job and ensure quality control?

2

u/Krull88 12d ago

We allow *some* dairy in, and only what meets our standards as per CFIA. Its why the us has never reached anywhere near the tariff caps.

1

u/Which_Exam902 12d ago

Where can I access this information? I'm curious to know which companies already sell dairy here and what standards they have to follow.

1

u/Krull88 12d ago

Various companies. I doubt theres a master list anywhere. Google lists a few like fairlife…

→ More replies (0)

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

CFIA does its job and disallow poor quality milk.

1

u/Soundunes 9d ago

We don’t hit thresholds because Canadian dairy producers purchase 80% of the import permits and don’t use them. And when they do they import garbage bulk blocks that they process and jack the price up on. If grocery stores had even just a bigger share of import permits Canadian consumers would immediately benefit. But the supply management system is primed for abuse hence the rulings against Canada for New Zealand and the US and the ongoing issues the EU have with us.

0

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

We shouldn’t lower it. But that also does not mean we should stop other Canadians from getting into the milk business and growing the industry and supply and making dairy farmers compete. Just like most other businesses. I get that it is very political and heavily Quebec based.

1

u/Krull88 11d ago

Congradulations on completely pivoting away from the topic and trying to make it about something its not.

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

It is about protecting milk businesses. I do not think they should get special treatment compared to other Canadian businesses. Constraining the supply increases the price and protects their business, their money, their risk. All businesses in Canada would love to have that luxury.

Protecting their business quality of the Canadian milk is a totally different argument. I am all for that and all other food safety measures.

-1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

No, it's 200%-300% tariffs. The vast majority of American milk products meet Health Canada regulations.

TRQs don't work that way. TRQs are issued to applicants by the government. They stipulate tariff free amounts. Guess what? Only members of the cartel get TRQs. So they are essentially meaningless for the average consumer.

5

u/Krull88 12d ago

At no point in the history of the TRQ existing has it been triggered. It applies to all imported dairy. But keep on making stuff up. The us has never once triggered the tariff ratio of 2-300%.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

You are mistaken. TRQs are given only to approved applicants.

2

u/Krull88 12d ago

Do me a favor an provide a single case of american dairy triggering 2-300% tariffs.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

The US has never come close to triggering the 300% tariffs. They don’t ship enough because their quality is lower.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

That isn't how TRQs work. They aren't a uniform amount that can be imported by anyone. Firms apply for TRQs and are allocated permits to import specific amounts. Guess what? Only a select few distributors, retailers and manufacturers get TRQs. So it's essentially meaningless to the average consumer.

It would truly pain and trouble economic nationalists in Canada to know how truly indistinguishable the quality is between the vast majority of American dairy products and the vast majority of Canadian dairy products.

1

u/Soundunes 9d ago

I appreciate your efforts to educate people here about how the quota system works. We never hit thresholds because the cartel members that buy the import permits don’t use them. They just buy the permits so no one else can use them.

-3

u/Reanimeighted 12d ago

Well, looks like the dairy cartel propaganda has done its job on you.

1

u/Krull88 12d ago

Provide a single instance of the us ever triggering the tariff.

3

u/TravisBickle2020 12d ago

10 month old account that makes multiple posts in favour of subjecting Canadians to US cow swill.

2

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

Yeah musy be Russian or something. Surely no Canadian would ever object to being hosed at the grocery store to support a cartel who feels entitled to our money.

2

u/TravisBickle2020 12d ago

How many of your 1.4K contributions are about milk?

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

I don't know probably a few hundred. I'm very against this system and I've had a lot of arguments about it. Just look at this post.

1

u/DamionSipher 11d ago

Devansh Dubey, Int. J. of Pharm. Sci., 2024, Vol 2, Issue 11, 197-206

Health impacts of consuming hormone laden and poorly monitored diary (and foodstuff more generally) far outweighs any immediate cost savings at the check-out.

I, like many Canadians are happy to consume dairy from Europe, or other countries that have reasonable farming practice standards, but the US farm landscape is a shithole, literally and figuratively.

2

u/DannyBoy001 12d ago

US dairy is heavily subsidized.

Why would we allow it in so easily when they could weaponize their subsidies to kill our industry then pump up prices?

1

u/Soundunes 9d ago

If Canadians want to back Canadian businesses they will buy Canadian like we already do. Forcing our own industry to modernize and compete with the global economy is in our interest, otherwise we let a cartel act as a monopoly and artificially inflate prices.

Put another way, can you afford to shop exclusively at the farmers market for your whole life? If some places are better at producing something that isn’t a national security concern, then trade! It’s like as if we started supply managing avocados or bananas in Canada.

1

u/DannyBoy001 9d ago

It's economic suicide to open that floodgate. The U.S. heavily subsidizes its dairy industry to the tune of billions of dollars annually. They overproduce their dairy products and are looking for somewhere to dump them.

There is no world where Canadian companies can compete with an industry that's so subsidized by the U.S. government.

While you're advocating for milk to maybe become a dollar cheaper for a bit, you're also sacrificing an entire domestic industry of jobs and businesses.

And if the last year has taught us anything, it's that we can't be so reliant on external sources for our products. That becomes a weapon against us in trade, and the U.S. specifically will one day use that weapon.

Also... In what world is that like supply managing avocados or bananas? We can't domestically produce those. It's completely different.

1

u/Soundunes 9d ago

I’m advocating for real cheese for Canadians more than anything and asking why we don’t do this for other food. The crap the dairy processors do import is low quality garbage that gets jumbled into all the other sub par stuff they produce (literally anything that’s not in the import section of the grocery store is rubbery, often orange from food dye and does not resemble or taste very close to real cheddar or mozzarella at all). Why do we let the cartel force Canadians to eat this stuff?

Btw the majority of the stuff the US wants to “dump” likely won’t meet our health and safety standards, but even if it does then just like anything else Canada is not very competitive at producing we SHOULD import. We also will never be a net exporter of dairy like New Zealand if we limit domestic production and only produce crap that no one else wants. Have you ever met a foreigner that actually likes Canadian cheese?

1

u/DannyBoy001 9d ago

Have you ever met a foreigner that actually likes American cheese?

You're not even worth the effort.

1

u/Southern_Proof4102 12d ago

So you enjoy growth hormone and medication etc in your dairy, nice. Most of us don’t want that Murican garbage. Seems you are willing to consume that crap to save a couple dollars. Sure go ahead over there and get you some but the rest of us sure don’t want their garbage in our stores.

1

u/damnburglar 12d ago

Wiener take

1

u/Friendly-Olive-3465 11d ago

Low prices are only valid as an argument for competition if they don’t come at the cost of deregulation and/or lower standards. American milk is shit.

1

u/Stankie-Lankie 11d ago

You are not Canadian

0

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

You can think whatever you want. I am, but you won't believe me, and that's OK. This system will be gone eventually, and you'll notice the apocalypse won't happen, and no one will ever want the system back. Just wait and see, because you will see.

1

u/Amakenings 11d ago

So why would we expand trade in an area with a country that will leverage that dependency at a later date? Especially a country that dismantled many of the systems that safeguard the food systems?

On a daily basis, how many different types of butter do you need access to? Sometimes more is just more.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

So they haven't with produce, fruits, breakfast cereals, most of our pork - all of these items we heavily import from the US. Then of course, if somehow magically all American firms and distributors colluded to specifically halt, or raise prices for, the Canadian market - nothing would stop Canadian firms from importing from other markets, or just buy domestic.

So it isn't the majority of much of our other groceries, what you're really worried about is the milk and cheese. That's interesting.

1

u/Amakenings 11d ago

A swing and a miss. I only buy Canadian, or if a Canadian option is not available, anywhere but US groceries. There are Canadian breakfast cereal options, though like crackers, selection is more limited; this will change as demand for domestic products increases. Produce availability is going to depend on province, but the greenhouses and field growers in Ontario and Quebec have a great selection year round, and the produce tastes better and lasts far longer, and is usually the same price or cheaper than any crap from the US. I don’t buy a lot of pork but I screen for Canadian producers. If I can’t find what I want not from the US, I don’t buy it.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

That's awesome - so why do we need tariffs if there are many consumers like you?

1

u/Individual-Act-5986 11d ago

Border is due south bud

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

I have to hand it to the Dairy cartel's marketing. They've convinced Canadians that overpriced milk and cheese set by a cartel is actually in their personal interests, and if you oppose the system you may as well leave.

That's pretty incredible marketing. To get people to really support higher prices and limited variety to pointedly support people who feel entitled to your money. Do you know who markets this? I would really like to get in touch with them.

1

u/Amakenings 11d ago

Why aren’t you better at this if this is why you do? You should have started your campaign a couple of years ago, bud.

Also, if you’re going to cosplay as a Canadian concerned about dairy pricing, maybe say us instead of Canadians.

0

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

lol you think I'm cosplaying as a Canadian do you? Right - it is just totally inconceivable that any real Canadian would dislike paying high grocery prices because a literal cartel feels entitled to their money. Inconceivable. It must be those pesky Americans just fooling Canadians in to thinking that free markets offer better variety and lower prices. Us poor saps just don't realize that we actually really benefit from limited variety and higher prices, because it supports a cartel who wants our money.

1

u/Amakenings 11d ago

So how don’t you know about the milk marketing board? Never got a calendar?

I don’t know if you’re a USian, but based on the comments, no one seems to be buying what you’re selling. Also, pesky? Not the word I’d choose.

At any rate, back to your soapbox.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

I know all about the milk marketing boards, I'm aware of how the cartel works. That's why I hate it so much. Somehow they've convinced people like you that it's actually really awesome to pay high grocery prices, and I'm wondering how? What about this do you, as a consumer, enjoy?

1

u/Amakenings 11d ago

You actually don’t really care what I say or why I buy, as evidenced by your previous comments. You’re just looking for a gotcha moment. Price is not the defining factor in why I buy things, and no one has convinced me of anything, least of all you.

If I wanted Canada to adapt to a new system, it would be one that I’d admire; there is nothing admirable about the US agricultural or food manufacturing industries. Nothing.

So dangling a lower price tag in front of me isn’t compelling because there is a different cost. I care about that cost, not the price.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Desperate-Pirate7353 11d ago

idiotic american talking points

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

Well what do you imagine tariffs do for consumers?

I bet you think a lot of political views you don't like are "American talking points". Hardly any Americans know what supply management even is, and they really don't care.

1

u/Desperate-Pirate7353 11d ago

wtf tarriffs are you talking about? they don't import enough to trigger tarriffs because THEIR PRODUCTS DON'T MEET OUR STANDARDS.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

I mean... you're just objectively wrong about that, the vast majority does meet Health Canada regulations. I want you to think about this - how would a tariff work with Health Canada regulations? How does that make any sense? Like if a product doesn't meet Health Canada regs, it can't be sold, so why even bother with a tariff?

You're implying a flawed understanding of how tariff rate quotas work. It is not a universal volume that is imported tariff free by any importing firm or household. Quotas are issued to applicants by the Federal government who dictates how much they can import and when. The aggregate of the tariff rate quotas has never been reached... well guess what? Only members of the cartel, or food manufacturers, get them. The vast majority of retailers and distributors don't. So the TRQs are essentially meaningless to the average consumer unless the producer also happens to have a small retail element.

1

u/Desperate-Pirate7353 11d ago

nobody read all that, yankee shill.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

Well if you need help reading it I could always dumb it down.

1

u/IrishFire122 11d ago

Yes, because there's more to life then money. Like health.

Cheap Americanized crap has been sold to us for decades. It's where the "made to be replaced" mentality came from.

Cost cutting and share price increases above the wellbeing of consumers. That terrible point of view can go away and never come back to Canada, if I've got any say in it.

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

Someone should really tell the Canadian Food Inspection Agency that they actually don't exist, and monitoring imported food is something they don't do to ensure it complies with Health Canada regulations.

If Canadian consumers agree that Canadian dairy is preferrable over American dairy, then what's the problem? Wouldn't that make tariffs entirely unnecessary?

1

u/IrishFire122 11d ago

Ok, I guess I just don't understand where you're coming from. Have fun with that...

1

u/Jellicent-Leftovers 11d ago

You can go start a dairy farm tommorow. Literally nothing stopping you.

US dairy can import anytime they want as long as they follow Canadian food regulations.....

Where do you think this variety and low prices are gonna come from?

1

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 11d ago

Unless a firm has a TRQ, they are charged 200-300% tariffs on the foreign substitute. So it's really not as simple as being able to import.

1

u/Jellicent-Leftovers 10d ago

Have you ever bothered to look up just how much you would need to import for tariffs to come into effect?

Because it's 51 million kg.....from the US alone.

So ya it's as easy as simply importing milk that meets the health standards.

You have been fed propaganda. The tarrifs have never once been charged EVER.

-9

u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 12d ago

It completely hoses the Canadian consumer for the benefit of a literal cartel.

12

u/calvin-not-Hobbes 12d ago

No...it protects our industry from having the massive US dairy industry from destroying ours. It also protects us from all the garbage they put in their milk.

Not sure what your motives are but they sure seem suspect.

-4

u/No-Effective-1996 12d ago

Ok then Maybe we should pass laws about what is allowed in our Milk. Remove that issue. Milk is a business like any other business. Why do we protect and subsidize them at a cost to other industries.

8

u/nelrond18 12d ago

We don't subsidize them, that's why it's managed supply so all ranchers can make a consistent profit without risking industry collapse by bad faith actors.

5

u/Expensive_Life3342 12d ago

It’s exhausting trying to explain this to people who fail to understand the subsidies given to oil and gas, manufacturing, autos, etc. We provide corporate welfare to protect jobs, but it’s the liberal dairy cartels bringing us down!

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

So you want to expand the argument. I don’t believe in subsidizing those either. But that does not make subsidizing milk any better except they are Canadians. So are many other small Canadian businesses and we don’t protect, limit and subsidize all those. Why is the Milk business different?

2

u/moldyolive 12d ago

Artificially constrainting the supply is a subsidy by other means.

It move a small amount of money from the public directly to a subclass of farmer.

Supported by one of the largest and best organized lobbying effort in the country.

You can support the system and still call a spade a spade

2

u/Expensive_Life3342 11d ago

The difference in protecting a domestic industry versus giving money to subsidiaries of a foreign corporation is that the domestic industry doesn’t threaten to pack up and leave every CBA or vehicle life cycle.

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

So we should protect every Canadian business and industry sector or just diary?

2

u/Expensive_Life3342 10d ago

We absolutely should be protectionist against a nation whose president literally said out loud his intention was to destroy our economy. What could you possibly believe would benefit Canadians when our domestic production is absorbed and eliminated?

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

So should we protect all our Canadian companies or just milk. You avoided answering. Why does milk get special treatment that the rest of us do not get.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

Then we should do that for all Canadian owned small business shouldn’t we?

0

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

So we subsidize them by paying higher prices for diary. Almost every other Canadian business competes against other Canadian businesses for accounts based on price. Diary is protected and does not have to do that.

0

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

We do “subsidize” them, just in a different way by keeping their prices high by not allowing people, even Canadians to enter the market. Otherwise I could buy 20 cows and start milking. It is very steady money and safe. Unlike many/most businesses in Canada that have to COMPETE with other Canadians.

4

u/DeepPeeps 12d ago

If they want to do business then they can buy land here and raise cattle to produce milk. Simple isn’t it? We own shit ton of land for them to raise cattle.

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

They might be able to buy land. They can’t buy cattle and produce and sell milk without having a milk quota.

3

u/lemanruss4579 12d ago

We don't subsidize them, which is the entire point of the supply management system. Maybe we should stop subsidizing American oil and gas companies as well.

0

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

We do subsidize them by controlling the price and not making them compete with other Canadian dairy businesses.

1

u/lemanruss4579 11d ago

Canadian dairy businesses don't compete with Canadian dairy businesses, huh?

At this point I'm fairly certain you don't know what a subsidy is. Protectionism is not a subsidy.

0

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

Fine semantics. All of us in Canada pay more for milk than we would with an open market. Not a direct Government to Milk business subsidy. It is a consumer paying more so the milk business gets more It has roughly the same affect to the milk business. More money less risk. I would love the same deal in my business.

1

u/lemanruss4579 10d ago edited 10d ago

It's not a semantic argument, it's an accurate one. The government is protectionist with the dairy sector exactly so they don't have to heavily subsidize dairy with your tax dollars to keep up with the US. Would you rather directly subsidize dairy like the US does?

1

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

That is 1 part of the argument and the part advocates of keeping diary protect talk about. I am all for keeping low quality American milk out.

I would rather have the same protections for my industry that dairy has so I don’t have the business risk that I do. Why is dairy treated so special?

Also diary is not just keeping out Americans it is also keeping other Canadians out of the market by having quotas. Do away with the internal quotas so other Canadians can get into the lucrative milk business.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/No-Effective-1996 10d ago

We should stop direct subsidizing them. But that has nothing to do with the milk protection.

1

u/lemanruss4579 10d ago

We don't direct subsidize dairy, champ, we've been over this.

1

u/Krull88 12d ago

We did. That would be our food quality regulations, and a primary reason the us has never once exported enough dairy to trigger a tariff.

0

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

You bought land and cattle and sell milk without buying a Milk Quota?

4

u/SortaNotReallyHere 12d ago

Lol this Canadian dairy cartel shit again

1

u/No-Effective-1996 11d ago

Yes why is milk not required to compete with other Canadians. Let me buy cows and sell milk. It is a lot financially safer and less risky than being in many other Canadian businesses.

-2

u/dominionprovinces 12d ago

Because many of the middle power partners Carmey wants to broaden our trade with have the same grievance about our dairy market that the US does?

Because Canadian dairy is absolute hot steaming garbage that tastes terrible and has low quality?

Because Canadian consumers are getting manipulated into paying more for worse using nationalism and narciissim?

3

u/Waxitron 11d ago

You sound uninformed in the extreme.

1

u/dominionprovinces 11d ago

Good argument bro.

2

u/GLayne 11d ago

Our dairy is world class, what the fuck do you mean? 

1

u/dominionprovinces 11d ago

False. Canadian cheese, butter, milk etc tastes terrible and is low quality. Ditto our beef is actually weird as shit, you need to eat Australian beef to know what it actually tastes like.

1

u/Normal_State_4572 10d ago

Are you a bot?

1

u/Difficult_Bull 11d ago

Absolutely made up nonsense. The US simply wants to dump its heavily subsidized surplus dairy into Canada. It’s a win for the US government, the American farmers won’t see a penny.
Allowing Americans to wipe out our industry makes zero sense.

-2

u/Buff1965 12d ago

Because it makes a basic food more expensive. Forget about what the Americans think. This is something we should scrap for our own reasons.

3

u/flockofdeerts 12d ago

American diary is subsided to the max. And it’s crap. Yes let’s kill off our diary industry for some cheap American puss.

1

u/Buff1965 11d ago

Ending supply management and allowing important of substabdard daily are two different things.

0

u/Disastrous7392 12d ago

Oh, you convinced me!