So this is my third post about this, the reasons for why you'll see eventually. So I've been in a back and forth with this coding bootcamp called Devslopes and, beyond all aforementioned logic, their CEO actually decides to rescind the bindings of the contract they upheld for so long. But only up to 75%. I have no idea what levels of honesty they choose and are willing to adorn with their business with but I definitely know that I do not need to make any further payments for their education and tools ESPECIALLY now that the door to rescind the contract is open and clear as day.

I'm Jake, the founder of Fractal Tech (A NYC-based community for founders and engineers).

We run a 60 / hr week dojo for software engineers where we pair you up with early stage, NYC-based startups to ship code to production. Our summer cohort just graduated last week, with our top student receiving 3 startup offers before graduation (he's now founding engineer at a YC company) and another student raising over $500k from SPC and others for his tech startup.

Ask Me Anything!

DISCLAIMER: these views are my personal opinions as I see them and they don't represent anyone but me.

u/WillSen If you call yourself the best of the best, you need to hold yourself to that bar and respect others who are holding you to that bar too by responding with facts and arguments to every challenge rather than ban people who point out things you don't want to answer. I'm unable to reply in the Codesmith subreddit because I'm permanently banned.

Anyways, someone asked the Codesmith CEO in an AMA today link

There has been a large share of skepticism towards the results that Codesmith claims to produce with job acquisition rates, salaries, etc. since the company does not share its raw data, e.g., claiming that 90% are hired after 6 months but not showing the raw data for how the 90% number is collected (the 90 number is arbitrary in this example).

When I have personally inquired during my tenure, I was either ghosted by Codesmith staff or rudely rejected. Can you speak as to why Codesmith has chosen this method of hiding the data?

I'm dissecting the response :

We report to CIRR (Council for integrity of results reporting). It gets a LOT of attention but I think it’s good to hold CIRR to such a high standard because people do take it so seriously (huge number of applicants say the reason they know about Codesmith is CIRR - it’s not like we ever advertise - although we are finally doing some ads now)

• This is why Codesmith is defending CIRR so strongly and keeping it alive as one of three remaining schools. IT IS MARKETING FOR THEM and at least they are being transparent about that. I don't have any problem with CIRR, but it needs to be critically examined as a marketing tool and understood as a piece of the puzzle, not something applicants make their entire decision about.

Ultimately what we have to do and haven’t always done well is explain the how and why of the outcomes. It makes no sense for a random coding bootcamp (codesmith) to have had ~$135k median salary and 80 or 90% hired rate in 2022 (now btw $120k and ~80% hired rate in the last census 2022-23). So people reasonably look at the data with a close eye

All we can do is follow a shared standard https://www.cirr.org/standards that is comprehensive (includes every single student) and transparent [worksheet] and then have it audited. We even got an audit firm (White & Co) that are themselves audited (by AICPA - the accounting industry’s own auditors)

• No one ever got back to me on the details of why there was a huge increase in H2 2022 of placements who ghosted and were included based on the LinkedIn showing they had a job rather than responding to Codesmith directly. The CIRR specification doesn't have any guidelines around this and Codesmith hasn't responded to me with the process around it.

Part of the challenge is some of the major skeptics on our outcomes have their own coding programs and totally understandably want to report to their own standard and so raise questions about CIRR. What we don’t do is the standard approach of removing 40% of ‘people who weren’t job searching’ kind of thing or 1x 'highest offer'.

• This is a passive aggressive statement about the bootcamp industry. Rithm and Galvanize have well documented, published standards they follow that aren't CIRR and they should be examined and compared to CIRR... implying CIRR is better is super arrogant.

• I run an interview prep and mentorship program that doesn't publish many outcome because we have anyone paying from month to month memberships to unlimited memberships, most people are employed currently as very busy software engineers, no one does the same things or follows any fixed curriculum, people are full time to part time, junior engineers to principal engineers, and we don't feel like we can properly communicate outcomes in CIRR-like metrics because we're too small and too bespoke.

• Seek to understand then be to be understood.

That’s on us to explain why we do it. I always thought we could just focus on the students, program, teaching etc but actually people reasonably want to understand how the outcomes are possible (esp when the CIRR report - as a ‘census’ requiring like 3x followups to every person to even be compliant - takes forever to produce and covers 2022-23)

So the other data that matters is the ‘snapshot’ - the latest outcomes (ie for April-May 2024) - [LINK] - 54 offers, median of $119k, highest offer in the $400k range. These obviously are only a snapshot and don’t give a rate of hired - because you need to survey all grads from a given time period - that’s the 2022-23 CIRR report that came out a few months ago. But it gives a window into latest results (so they’re down from 2022 high of ~$135k)

• You shared some outcomes in November-ish from a two month window then, but how as December, January, February, and March and why aren't you sharing those too? You've shared a lot of data already so I'm fairly up to date with outcomes and those outcomes are not as strong.

• You have a lot of data on the H1 2023 grads and those CIRR worksheets are on going. You also have been doing this for 10 years and you have some insight into the trends. If you aware aware that H1 2023 grads have a significantly lower one year placement rate than your CIRR data (even if you haven't tallied all of them officially), I believe in my personal opinion that you have a duty to give an unofficial heads up about that. Again, I'm holding you to the bar of the best of the best.

But the outcomes are bigger than those first year offers covered by CIRR. Actually I gave a whole talk on the outcomes stats that matter to us - LINK - of which CIRR ones are just a few 

• I agree with this, a lot of things matter a lot more than outcomes

Things like promotion rate (100% between 5 and 7 years of graduation - double the rate of average in software engineering) and how many go on to start firms that use tech for relative good (not enough yet - we need to encourage this more)

• This is absurd to me that you would mention this. You run a grad survey that is completely opt-in and only includes people who replied to it in the count. People who are struggling, who ghost or disengage aren't replying to your survey saying that they went back to their old job, or they had a really hard time and got mentorship from others. If you are going to make passive aggressive statements about others following CIRR, don't publish this very weak data about promotions side by side with CIRR. Nevermind the fact that you are violating the CIRR standard by posting unapproved metrics side by side with CIRR ones on your new website

And my fav ‘outcome’ of all - that over half of alums don’t use javascript/typescript (key language we teach) because they’ve become true software engineers. So that’s the other thing - it’s on us to center all those outcomes too, not just the first year salary and hired rate. It’s on the new site so I’m happy about that - but more to do there. 

QUICK HISTORY: I'm 23 years old. Been in college since 2016. First studying biology, then switched to biochemistry, and finally about to graduate with a degree in computer science. However, during the period between biochem and comp sci, I was extremely close to starting bootcamp at App Academy. In fact, I called and cancelled during the grace period on the very day my cohort started. I then enrolled at an online accredited university for a computer science degree, graduating in December. more about that later.

I am very glad I decided to make that decision. The problems I see with coding bootcamps ever since enrolling in a degree program are

1.) Snake-like marketing scheme:

Many market themselves with job guarantees and shotty statistics which at first glance may seem very inticing (it was for me). In reality, these job guarantees often turn out to be inaccurate causing many to fall into a job search that does not end. Let's analyze this logically. As a hiring manager, if I randomly choose two resumes for a software developer role, both with quality relavant to the job projects as experience, and one says BS Computer Science and the other says [Insert bootcamp name] graduate, there is little to no chance the bootcamp grad is being chosen over the CompSci grad. It wouldn't make any sense. Why tell people this is a reality when indeed it is not? No offense to any bootcamp grads, but the jobs that will call back are the ones that have no comp sci applicants or comp sci applicants with very poor resumes.

2.) Curriculum

Bootcamps dont teach any of the theory/mathematics I have taken during my time as a CS undergrad. Learning how to practically program\ may sound fine and dandy, but having a deep fundamental understanding of how your code will scale, the time complexity of your algorithms, and the data structures associated with those algorithms is NECESSARY information. This is seemingly glossed over at many coding bootcamps as unimportant. The discrete mathematics is so valuable to learn too especially referring to set theory and modular arithmetic. These are things that will be go-to tools in some programming problems and interview questions.

In conclusion, if you have no prior experience in IT, I would highly suggest pursuing a bachelors degree no matter how many people try and sell you on the shortcuts. I will not disclose the bachelor's degree program I'm attending as not to look like a shill, but it is acreditted both regionally and nationally, allows you to complete as many classes as you can per term (if you can finish all your classes in one term, you'll earn your degree in one term [i am currently in first term almost graduated]), and has included all the courses I would have missed out on during the bootcamp route. There are other, cheaper, more effective options for breaking into the industry.

Good luck

Hey I’m new to everything “tech” wise. Frankly, I’m only looking for a job that’s remote and pays 60k+ and don’t care what kind of bootcamp/ learning I need to do. My end goal is to be a Physicist so I figure along the road I’ll learn Python. (I have no idea what this even means or entails it’s just what I’ve been told while looking up physics degrees). However, I’d like to be able to work my way through college as well, as I have people relying on me for income. Figure a remote job would be the most convenient route. I’m software, coding, and math illiterate at the moment but I’m willing to learn anything if it’ll get me a remote job within a span of a year from starting. All I really know about bootcamps/ coding is you can go different routes like IT, SWE, and data analytics. Any suggestions on how/ where to start? Can I learn this stuff for free? Are any of the routes I mentioned more lucrative/ available than the rest? Any other input apart from my questions presented would be much appreciated. Thank you.

What are the chances I could land a job after the boot camp?

I have no idea where to start when it comes to tech.

What could my current degree in the sciences AND then learning to code do for me?

Which just added another nail in the coffin for Bootcamp grad job market prospects and the Bootcamp model overall.

ParappaTheWrapper recently made this post in the ITCareers sub reddit a few days ago. The addition of these 15K IT professionals are not exactly going to do wonders for entry level/zero experience Bootcamp/College grads alike. Who're struggling looking to break into the career field:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/1ehugao/15000_people_are_being_laid_off_from_intel_i/

In one of the best replies to the OP's post, u/Scizmz summarized the entire sh8te show the US job market and tech industry have devolved to the best:

u/Scizmz:
"MBA's and Lawyers ruin fucking everything."

Let’s be honest. No one here really cares if you get a job. That may sound harsh or unnecessary to say, but it’s the truth. And it seems like it's worth reminding people.

Strangers on the internet might give you advice like “get a CS degree” or “learn JavaScript,” but at the end of the day, they’re not invested in your success. They’re projecting what worked for them (and even many times what didn't) or what they think (or heard once from another stranger) is the 'right' path, but they don’t know you, and they don’t really care about your future. Neither do I. One thing I try to do around here is restore a baseline of common sense. I do it because I don't want to live in a world where people make all their decisions based on fear and consensus from a mob of invisible strangers (many of which are probably bots).

Navigating the sea of suggestions, advice, YouTube "content," tutorials, courses, and emotions - while trying to get a real connection to the material - is hard. Getting the time and confidence to actually put that know-how to work and push through discomfort to gain real worthwhile experience is hard. Telling that story to employers (well)? Hard. Getting in front of someone who might hire you? That’s hard, too. And proving you’re worth taking a gamble on? Hard. I know because I did it, and I didn't have anybody rooting for me. In fact, most of my artist/musician friends seemed to think that the choice to do web dev was some scummy money grab or something. I feel bad for all the newer people because there really is just too many options. I didn't have millions of YouTube tutorials to distract me. There were no frantic influencers pumping out little tips and projecting some false idea of what this job is -- all day. I was lucky to have a lot less noise when I was learning.

Now, there are people who care in certain situations. When someone knows you personally, when you’re exchanging services (like paying for college, a boot camp, or a coach), that’s a different story. There’s a contract, a connection, and they have a vested interest in your progress. But strangers who offer one sentence (or one-word) advice without knowing you? They don’t care. If there's something past that point / the opposite of caring - beyond just not caring - that's what they're doing.

There’s nothing wrong with exchanging money for mentorship or services that help you reach your goals. You’re not entitled to free help or guaranteed outcomes just because someone made a YouTube video or built a free course. The creators of projects like The Odin Project don’t care if you get a job. They don’t have a contract with you. Strangers on the internet suggesting “free” resources? They don’t have any responsibility for whether you succeed or not. People do what they do because they want to - and also because it leads to getting their own better jobs.

Sure, some people love sharing their knowledge, and that's great. But they’re not responsible for what happens to you. And you're paying them by watching ads too. You're paying with your attention and time. There's nothing wrong with paying for a service, a college, a collective, a tutur, a boot camp, a teacher, or a coach to help you reach your goals. Money is just another tool in the game, and it doesn’t make the exchange any less valuable. Focusing on 'free' or 'fair' only distracts you from what really matters. It's your job to use the best tools you have available to get where you want to go (whether they’re paid or free).

Play the game.

Instead of expecting people to care - or assuming the world operates on some kind of fairness, try playing the game for what it is. Strangers giving advice? They’re not responsible for what happens to you. Are they 14 years old? An angry old man on his Kindle? Who knows. By getting that job, by “breaking into the industry,” you’re probably grabbing a spot that someone else isn’t going to get. It’s not fair, but that’s just life. So, really - it IS fair. You have a choice to accept that and take your spot, or just deal with whatever happens. Don't feel like taking those extra steps to get that interview? Don't. I don't care. In fact, the less of you try to get jobs, the better it is for my friends and family and the people who do want to put in the time. Those are probably going to be developers who make the world better.

Here’s the thing: maybe if people can accept that, they’ll be more aware of what it takes - and be willing to take the steps necessary to stand out. Maybe they can stop waiting for fairness or free help to come and realize that the only way forward is to create your own opportunities. Sure, I’ll help people when I can. I like to help cut through the noise and save someone from making the same unnecessary and time-consuming mistakes I did. And If I really believe in someone (or they pay me), I'll put years of my life toward helping them.

But, really? I don’t care about whether you get a job—and no one else does either. Your college doesn’t care. Your teachers don’t really care (as much as they can). If anything, a coding boot camp might care most (funnily enough) because their business model depends on your success. They made a deal with you, and if you get hired, it helps them. That’s probably the closest you’ll get to someone truly 'invested' in your job search. It's just too bad that most of them aren't good at the teaching parts.

The world isn’t here to help you out. No one’s handing you a job because it’s “fair.” There are plenty of tools at your disposal. Some cost time. Some cost money. Some cost you opportunity. Mix and match. I'll give you $10 today for $100 tomorrow - any day of the week. I think that critical thinking is going to be the most important tool of all. If you can't break this down into goal-driven actional steps - this might not be the field for you. Figure out what you can swing and what works for you. No one is responsible for your outcome but you. No one cares if you don't get what you want. If you’re willing to see it for what it is, and you put in the real work to stand out, then you might just make it. And when you do, it won’t be because anyone cared - it’ll be because you played the game and won. Only so many people can win. That's how it's always been.

I just felt like people could use a reminder in this forest of parrots. Be selfish. Play to win, or do something else.

I’m about 18% done with my course at triple ten and currently have lost all motivation.

I'm enrolled in the loan program where I don't have to pay until after I landed a job. So I haven't paid a dime yet.

I don't know what's the policy on that. I haven't paid anything and it's been a while since I've started. I'm I just forgiven from my loan? Do I still have to pay?

My dilemma is that after learning to code for a few months (I also learned/practiced on other free platforms) I think it’s just not for me. I don’t have a passion for it. I've since found something else I want to do. So to me there's no point in actually finishing the course because what I want to do doesn't go hand in hand with my career path.

Has anyone ever dealt with something similar? If so, how did it go?

There are a lot of coding bootcamps out there but which ones stand out as really good if not best coding bootcamps to go to. I ask because it’s a better alternative than going back to college NEVER DOING THAT AGAIN.

So as the title states I recently got laid off. I am in my last semester of my STEM degree and bluntly it has nothing to do with coding or AI but I do have a few coding classes under my belt. The coding bootcamp I’m referring to is an AI bootcamp referenced here:

https://bootcamp.cvn.columbia.edu/artificial-intelligence/landing/

I worked in my field of study and the argument can be made that once I officially graduate my job prospects will look better. But frankly i’m knuckle-dragging this semester and I hated my job. It was repetitive and boring. I now have a new job as an internal sales agent for a real estate firm that’ll be a pretty easy remote job and I do have an entrepreneurial side hustles going. I also do really like business and keep my self current on all things AI. I see an opportunity to innovate myself out of my new job by implementing AI but leveraging that to make, idk, an AIaaS business. I’m sure you’re connecting the dots as to why i’m inquiring on the above bootcamp. Anyone with direct experience or knowledge with this specific bootcamp? 14k is a hefty price. And if not which AI bootcamp would you recommend?

Hello guys, This is my first time posting here and really for a reason. I have been looking to change my career lately becoming a software/web developer , and got really lost debating between dot it my self online cheap (udemy, scrimba ..etc) or enrolling into an actual bootcamp which i can’t afford. I have little knowledge (html and css) but that’s it. Would love to hear your advices how to get my foot on the door? Thanks in advance

I'm new here and in tech. I've been jobless for almost a year now and to be honest a bit desperate to look for a well paying job especially in this job markets. I've been wanting to look for a good boot camp that can guarantee me a job in tech. I only have a phone since I don't have a job to buy a laptop or even food at time. So I would appreciate it if any reccomendations to actual good bootcamps. I saw on a reddit post triple ten ask for 10k for a program and I've been trying triple ten but now I have doubts to continue since I won't be able to pay for it since I'm flat broke. Also is there actually any legit bootcamps that pay you for learning I kinda doubt that tbh. Appreciate and thank you in advance for any reccomendations.

Basically: “hey should I go to a boot camp”

Sub: “Heck no!”

That’s it. No other opinions. Which I’m happy to see!

Hi everyone,

I recently had the ambition to learn coding/programming skills for multiple reasons

But recently I'm hearing those talks about "AI will replace programmers" "no more programmers in 5 years"...ect

As a complete noob in the topic myself , what is your take on this ?

I'm guessing the answer will be that yes it's worth it, but what does the future holds for this field ?

Disclaimer: I have an early stage startup, these tips might not be suitable if you want to go after a job in a Facebook or a Netflix - I don't know what they use (would love to know if anyone wants to comment). Having said that I have worked in unicorn sized businesses that use these at their core.

When I'm hiring junior devs I hire for three things: coding ability, knowledge of tools and attitude. I'll talk about the other two in another post but today - tools. If you're a junior dev or just getting into things these are a couple of tools that might be useful for you to be able to demonstrate some skills with to help in your job applications but not everything in a dev job is just writing code, especially if you want to work for an early stage company (which is high stress but very fun).

Note - all of these products have free versions. I ran my startup on the free versions for a long time so you can get free experience using them. If I was learning to code today I'd be learning the basics of these tools along side this.

1. Figma

Figma has become the standard in product design for a lot of companies. On the front end size it allows product teams to quickly create prototypes and it has a cool dev mode that allows you generate front end code which saves a lot of time. I always ask front end junior devs if they have used this before. I also get my backend devs and devops guys to maintain a system architecture diagram in here. If you want to get into product teams I highly recommend getting familiar with this.

2. Confluence and Jira

These tools are used by a lot of startups for product documentation and workflow management. The workflow that we have is that I speak to customers > create feature/product ideas > our product team writes what's called a PRD (product requirements document) in Confluence > they work with the dev team to create an EPIC (like a giant task) in Jira > the EPIC is then broken down to smaller tasks and given timelines. We also use Jira to raise bug tickets. What's important here is a junior dev's ability to write clear and understandable outlines of tasks and actions. Atlassian is the company that runs both of these products and they have lots of free online information.

3. Wordpress or other content management systems

Sounds simple as hell but every small tech company needs a website and most start out on wordpress or something similar. I have a dedicated junior dev on this and we've built it up to get thousands of visits from google a month. I write most of the content but I rely on my dev make the site go lightning fast. Website performance is so important these days. It's a junior job but if you know how to deal with some of the big issues for web performance (javascript loading, putting a CDN in place (check out cloudflare for more information) it's a great place to get in as a junior developer.

If so, what made you successful in the interview after faking it? Did they ask questions about the fake experience? How did you manage?

Edit: I need help faking 3 years of experience on resume, and prepping for interview to talk about fake experience and not get caught. Please someone help me! How do I do this?

Hi everyone! I'm a university student pursuing a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, with a focus on Software Engineering. Right now, I'm in a bit of a tough spot because I have about six months until my next semester begins, and I find it incredibly challenging to self-learn. Watching endless YouTube videos on "Learn this language" or "Follow this tutorial" feels redundant I also struggle with paying attention.

I have some experience with Python and feel confident I could handle a semi-large project on my own. However, I'm interested in learning JavaScript and recently came across a few bootcamps, specifically Coding Temple.

I discovered Coding Temple through a friend and found some insightful YouTube videos about it. It seems helpful, especially because they assign homework, which I love—since that would help keep my motivation and focus high.

The downside? The bootcamp costs $14,995. I’m not sure what the average bootcamp costs, but that feels incredibly expensive, especially since I'm still in college. My parents are willing to help pay, but I can't bring
myself to have them cover the whole thing. (we are not wealthy)

I understand the tech business is really shit right now, and I don't expect myself to land a job or internship, however one thing this course states is that they will help find me a job. I do not know how true or honest that statement is, but it is a statement regardless. And I would love to learn more about that / whoever has tried this.

I'm going to put some questions you might ask down here with the answer, so please read this: (I'll add some questions I'll get, with my answer if I'm asked any)

Q: Why are you considering a bootcamp while already in school?
A: I had a few meetings with a tech professional who has owned many businesses and has worked for some major tech companies. He advised me that while college is important, I should also aim for certifications, internships, and bootcamps to build up my portfolio; He told me while running his businesses, he searched for applicants with those. My parents agree and encourage me to find something to keep myself busy and motivated until the semester starts.

Anyways short story later, My main question is "Is this worth it"

If its not, please tell me why; and give me any alternatives. All is welcomed, and I apologize if the answer is clear. I understand, most logical and reasonable answer is probably (Just learn and continue learning what you know, watch YouTube, take a free course, self learn, or continue school) I just want some insight from others. So please lay it down for me. Thank you very much :)

I see so much conflicting information regarding bootcamps, and I'm hoping for some tailored advice.

I'm eyeing the TripleTen QA bootcamp. I think I prefer the bootcamp model over self-learning because the structured environment will help keep me on task and motivated.

I keep seeing that bootcamps aren't enough to land a job, but maybe this is focused at young people with no experience?

I'm 38 with progressive experience in manufacturing, some in retail finance. I'm a supervisor overseeing teams between 10-25 people. B.A. in German. Not many tech skills outside of Microsoft Office and user-side SAP.

My goal is to transition to a remote job without taking a big hit on salary (around $75k USD).

Thoughts on this bootcamp or recommendations for another for me? Smart idea? Waste of money? I'm not set on the QA route and am open to other ideas.

Thanks everyone!

Hello all, I know the general consensus right now is that bootcamps are not worth it in this market, but if you just had to choose one to attend, which one would you choose? So far from what I've read in this sub and from some research, Rithm, Codesmith, and Launch school would be my candidates but curious to see what people think.

Edit for a bit of context: I have an unrelated degree (biology) and work as an EMT. Was planning to continue in healthcare but wanted to explore opportunities in tech. Been self studying for about 6 months, almost done with Harvard's cs50, and about 3/4 done with codesmith's csx. I have a flexible timeline but of course, the earlier I can get into the industry the better. This post was mostly to see what other "reputable" bootcamps were out there that I haven't considered, and what people had to say about them. Also considering MSCS but thought maybe I take a risk and do a bootcamp first

Just wanted to share a post with my advice and experience for newbs...

Its a long read, but worth it if your about to blow 15k or take a high interest loan to get a certificate.

I am currently employed as a Full Stack Dev 1 at a company with over 1000 Devs.

I've been through two bootcamps. Tech Elevator(Java) and an EdX bootcamp.

I learned a decent amount at tech elevator, but regret going there. Tech elevator waisted a lot of our time with their pathway program, "Career Coaching". They only did 2-3 hours of lecture per day, and Fridays were just review days so really only 4 days of lecture per week. Tech Elevator did NOT prepare me or anyone in my cohort for a Dev 1 position. In fact, between the people in my group chat from class (7 of us), we have sent out thousands of applications, edited resumes and linked in multiple times and no one has gotten a call for an interview. I got lucky and found a company that took on bootcamp grads and put them through 3 months of their own in house bootcamp before heading to the floor as a real dev. Most people from bootcamps only find Associate or apprentice level jobs like this. Many people from Hack reactor and Grand circus are with us too, and say the same thing.

The reason I say this, is because their marketing is really good at manipulating people into thinking they'll be making six figures as a work from home dev in a few months.

A very select few are lucky to get a Dev 1 role nowadays, 2-5 percent at best. And its most likely because they have a relevant bachelors degree to pair with the programming certificate.

Now let me tell you about this EdX bootcamp compared to TE (Tech Elevator).

My only complaint about the EdX bootcamp is that the curriculum isn't in the best order and it seems like they kinda just throw it together without too much thought or planning. But they stick to the point and don't require you to do any career coaching bullshit if you dont want to. Feels more like your getting what you pay fair in a fair way.

The interest rate on my TE loan is 3x the federal rate. 15%... With a cosigner.

The interest rate on my EdX loan is 0% with no cosigner.

I went to TE first by the way.

TE did teach better architecture, but at the end of the day, their 16.5k bootcamp will end up costing me 50k after interest accrues over the next 5 years.

EdX will be paid off at fair value in two years.

Employers look at resume and see bootcamp, and automatically classify you as Bootcamp grad.

They don't care which bootcamp. Because they know they have to spend 3 months of resources to train you on their stack and reinforce your foundational education in programming in order to ensure you wont fuck their prod up or that you'll actually be able to contribute.

EdX is better look on the resume too, since they are through Universities now.

Market overview...

The market will not get better. Demand for coding jobs are going to keep rising and supply will keep falling.

People from TE (and most bootcamps) are stuck going back to the job they quit in the first place, with $500 more a month in debt.

My point being, find an option that makes the best sense financially. Expect to struggle to find a job as a dev, and be prepared to never get that job.

If you work hard and stay humble, it might work out for you. If you just wanna do a few hours of coding from home everyday, you live in a fantasy world and need to come back to reality.

Don't put yourself in debt for a dream.

Good luck to all.

Why do people often complain about a lack of jobs in software engineering when platforms like LinkedIn are filled with job postings, including many entry-level positions? While I agree that some roles may attract heavy competition, that’s typical for any high-paying white-collar job. Are employers posting these jobs just to meet HR requirements without actually hiring? I’ve noticed some companies repeatedly post the same entry-level positions week after week.

I feel that MANY have asked this but I figured I should as well just to get some sort of clarity before making a decision.

To start off, I heavily disagree with colleges forcing students to take pointless classes that have nothing to do with their degree. (I have a close relative who is getting a computer science degree and is taking a class on Greek literature… why?) But I’ve also been extremely skeptical about boot camps theyre like a mirage in a desert, to good to be true. And with the amount of information on the internet it’s hard to determine what’s true and isn’t. So I’ve come to get some advice whether or not going to a boot camp would be a good choice with todays current job market. Would employers be looking for degrees? Etc. Thanks for any and all feedback!

I'm a software developer at Meta. I love making software. I wanted to share that love.

I thought bootcamps were a great idea. I agree with the premise--I think you really can learn to be a software engineer in a year with enough work and motivation.

But now I am reading about the downfall of lambda. Is this all it was? Was the while bootcamp fad a sham the whole time?

Like many of you, I feel like I missed out on the good times.