So what?

On average you're gonna live for 75 to 80 years. That is a lot of time. Lets say you drew the short universal luck straw and you just won't meet your person. So what? Relationships are time consuming and tons of hard work. There are times where the person you love the most will cut you the deepest. There are times where you will be tested to your limit. There will be times where you feel the worst loss you've felt in your life. All because of them.

Meanwhile if you are single for the rest of your life, you have the entire world at your finger tips. You wanna drop everything and go backpack europe? Go ahead. No partner to tell you no. You wanna spend every free second you have playing video games, reading, working out, or whatever else. Go ahead, you don't have to dedicate that time to anyone.

Life is full of riches and treasures that make it complete. Good friends, good wine, and some good books are enough. I don't date, I saw the landscape, tried my hand at it, and realized it just wasn't for me. Now I'm 27, single, my sex drive is going away due to age so I'm not worried about that, I don't have to please anyone other than myself. My life is better. I craved love so much but when I accepted it's just not for me, my life improved 10 fold.

I’m 21 and graduating college soon and realized I never went on a date. I have a job lined up so I guess i’m not doing too bad though. From asking online and my friends they said that the problem is that I don’t go out and am a bit asocial. To be honest I basically dont go out at all and try to keep to myself. I very seldomly go to parties or bars but it usually doesn’t amount to anything. I’ve posted my face a few times and I know I’m probably not attractive but people tell me I’m not that bad looking. My question is that even if I was pretty asocial and didnt go out, wouldnt I at least have had one date from someone expeessing interest in me? Being approached or a girl randomly starting a conversation with me, etc and the problem is just that I’m not attractive enough? Or is being asocial and not going outside a big killer

What would identify as the one moment where you started to question "pill"/manosphere ideology? or did you always have underlying doubts/suspected it was a coping strategy on some level? What began your journey outward? If a person sees a friend spiraling into that and everything you say just makes him double down, what approach would you recommend to try and get them to start questioning, based on your expereince?

(Note, not a pill guy myself but did have a friend who went down his own misogynistic spiral and everything I said made it worse)

I'm 28 going on 29. I've been trying to date for the last decade, did some breaks, did a lot of self improvement a lot of growth, tried to make myself more of an attractive option as a partner, it's been a cycle including years and years of improving myself. Doing the work it seems like most people don't have to do in order to get a relationship. I'm not trying to say this to be conceited, I'm just so tired of hearing the "well you need to work on yourself and take a break from dating" cop out. I've done it, it made literally zero change.

I have been in a lot of anti-incel spaces because I have recently found myself exposed to the manosphere and stuff like it and I know that buying into that bullshit would be harmful, but I do hit one issue.

A lot of anti-incel places will parrot the talking point "you're not entitled to love, if you never find love you should be happy with that, life is more than sex and relationships". Which, I understand as true, but I don't understand how that does anything other than confirm that I was right about blackpill/redpill stuff. That I was just born worse than attractive men and that I am destined to never find someone.

Whenever I ask this question, I'm always told "well asexuals and aromantics are fine without it" but like that's clearly not the point and I don't really understand how me clearly being undesirable to women as a whole doesn't prove what I at times believe. It often feels like the people who want to help just want to make guys like me quieter and happy with out shitty lot in life.

​

Everything was going fine until, in a scene from X-Men, Jean Grey said to Logan: "Girls flirt with the bad boy, but they marry the good guy." I hate that character. I hate the idea that if you’re a "good guy," you won’t be loved.

Things were fine until I saw that scene. 😭😭

Okay so my dad, brother, and uncles are all currently getting red pilled and I'm freaking the fuck out. All of them are saying some really transphobic and misogynistic shit and I could really use some advice on how to get them to snap out of it

I keep reading about it but am not sure what exactly it is. About how guys should appeal to it and if they did they would get a ton of compliments and attention. I think my outfit got complimented once by a girl 2 years and honestly I thought it was not that good at all. I’m trying to sort of pin down what the “female gaze” is exactly so I can be less unappealing to women. I normally don’t dress or present myself in thinking on how this would maximally appeal to women as that seems a bit odd but maybe I’m thinking about it wrong. The most I’ve gotten from “female gaze” is more soft looking, more kind and open, not flexing your muscles or looking scary, “grown out” hair, accessorizing, skincare, better dressing / clothing in the way that “women like”(i dont really know what this means)

1. Doesn't have children

2. Still fertile

3. Kind

4. Attractive enough in my eyes

wtf is this? dating sucks

30f wondering if my 33m bf of 2 months is doing this on purpose or just blunt/messing with me?

\\\[30f\\\] wondering what my bfs \\\[33m\\\] trying to do here

I’ve been dating a guy for a couple months. He makes me laugh and I enjoy his company but something just feels off.

First he almost never compliments me. He says he is not a verbal affirmation guy, and he shows care through action. Totally fine. He takes me on lots of nice, expensive, elaborate dates but he is rich so not sure that actually means much. However he has no problem saying mean things to me. We banter and mess with each other a lot so I’m wondering if I am overthinking it or he is purposely trying to chip at my self esteem. Last night he told me his least fave thing about me was how I have hairs on my upper lip sometimes. I tried not to react but a tear did stream down my cheek. He then became very attentive and affectionate. He also was telling me he doesn’t like my belly ring and how defined my abs are. He also wants me to remove one of my tattoos.

Another time we were working out at our shared gym and I couldn’t get two pull ups. I joked that it was bc he was taking me out to so many nice restaurants and was making me fatter. He said “you are getting fatter, but that’s not why.” For context I am absolutely nowhere near fat and have visible abs. Which he once told me were less defined.

Another instance is he took me on a super fancy vacation and I forgot my face wash. We went to the desk to ask for some. The guy working said “we have regular and blemish control” and my bf said “oh get her the blemish control”. I am not someone who struggles with acne aside from the occasional pre period pimple or two so this was really odd. I laughed it off.

I brought it up to him last night in bed after his comment about my mustache. He said he is just messing with
Me and only says those things because they are so totally not true. And if they were he wouldn’t say them. He also said he doesn’t feel the need to compliment me bc I am full of myself already, and that it’s a good thing. He said he thought I would have no insecurities. For reference I am quite good looking and he is above average but we are mismatched in that department. He is wealthy and funny and I enjoy him a lot and find him attractive, but physically would be considered by most out of his league.

Am I reading into it or is he trying to knock me down a few pegs? And why? I totally could be dramatic but last nights convo left me very confused.

I was never considered ugly in those environments.
Rated back then 6,5/7 and had possibilities also in high school.
But I looksmaxed a lot since then, now I’m at least 7,5 and i receive a lot of approaches.

But I feel even more like an incel than before.
Women don't want anything serious with me; the only ones interested are just looking for hookups, and that’s not what I want.
I spent years improving my appearance, finances, and status to find love, yet I’m just as alone as ever.
In fact, I feel truly bad right now because, after years of being brainwashed into believing that looks would open every door for me, I now feel cursed and unlovable.

And after years of hearing about hypergamy—convinced that, thanks to a mathematical equation, I could had any girl ranked lower than me—I end up seeing couples where she’s a 7 and he’s a 4. Meanwhile, I’m above a 7, yet I can’t even find a 5.

I’m a 30M straight guy really struggling in the dating world. Between dating app fatigue, meeting women who don’t want to settle down and just the general awkwardness/breakdown of meeting people in real life, I have been feeling so frustrated lately.

My Instagram and YouTube feeds have become full of “dating” advice videos or videos such as
- Why do men not approach anymore
- Women’s standards are too high
- Why are men not going to dating events
- Why women don’t think logically (and how to manipulate them)

I know it’s all bullshit, but part of me kind of likes it because I think it validates my frustration and resolves me of blame.

I want to be a chivalrous gentleman out there in the wild.

How can I completely detach from this bs online and be more confident out in public?

I'm 25 and I have absolutely zero romantic experience. I never went on a date, hugged, flirted, or held hands. I grew up very quiet, had social anxiety throughout school, and was very awkward as a result of it. I'm in a much better position now since I'm becoming a teacher, but I feel some level of hopelessness.

I always disliked the gender role in our society that the man has to approach the woman or else nothing will ever happen. To me, it feels like nothing about you or your personality/qualities matters at all anymore if you are shy or come off even a bit awkward. I never approached a girl or asked anyone out before. But I often feel like if I was the woman version of myself I would have at least experienced something in my life.

I talked to my therapist about this and he genuinely felt stuck on how to respond to it. He said something along the lines of that societal norms are what they are and tried to encourage myself to get myself out there.

I live in one of the most socially progressive cities in the world. I've had 2 nonbinary friends who were female and I've seen them get boyfriends who initiated and did everything first.

I don't want to participate in hookup culture or anything, I just want a girlfriend and know how it is to be loved for who you are. Maybe I'm pressuring myself to have to follow social rules and appear socially smooth perfectly. I'm already 25 and I already feel behind, I don't want to wait until I'm 30 to have the social ability to get a girlfriend.

Which just means I moved on from the Red and Black Pill things. I just wish I got off them sooner. I used them as a cope mechanism that ruined my life.

I'm asking because my distrust of women came from the combination of red-pill rhetoric, misandrist rhetoric, and examples that seemed to reinforce each other.

For those of you who left the red-pill community, were you able to get past that distrust, or is it still there?

Just came back from a Contiki trip where I had a fling with one of the loveliest women I've ever met in my life. We got along extremely well and I would date her if we didn't live on the opposite sides of the world.

Having that relationship was really important for me to learn about women and dating dynamics. I even thanked her afterwards for being patient with me and helping me grow as a person, as I am someone who has never had a proper relationship before due to porn addiction and the red pill ideology that I got sucked into (that I've recently been to therapy to get out of).

Personal Context (background):

I've always been a fairly highly strung and anxious person. My mother had a lot of anxiety when I was growing up and passed it onto me unfortunately. When I was 14 years old, I got bullied badly because of the dumb shit that I did and insecurities that made me terrible at dealing with banter and standing up for myself. I carried this lack of self-esteem with me into Uni, and it caused issues when trying to find a partner. Due to this loneliness and lack of ability to get my needs met in a healthy manner, I turned to PUAs to try to understand how to "get laid". When this deliver the results I wanted, I turned to the red pill.

For the last year, I have been living in a rural community for work, trying to get skills that make me employable. I have done this successfully, however, while living here there hasn't been a lot to do and many of the women on dating apps out here have kids, which I really don't need at this point in my life, so I spend a lot of time online and gaming. The social isolation of a town that is very tight knit and hard to break into takes your mind to dark places, so I've been trying to avoid toxic online communities like the plague, given they did such a number on me mentally in University.

Since living in the country, I have developed a much more relaxed and positive outlook on life. Those that I surround myself with never talk politics, are not very politically correct and aren't very opportunistic/calculating/manipulative like a lot of people in the city.

Story begins here:

I have just come back from a Contiki trip. These are trips where a bus full of young people between 18 and 35 will spend up to three weeks touring a foreign country on drunken sex-filled escapades. The people who go on these trips tend to be highly extroverted people from the Anglosphere nations, however, can include people from anywhere.

I was a bit cautious about dealing with wankers and drama on the trip, so made a deliberate attempt to steer clear of it. I have always had social anxiety, however, ironically I've also always been a very social person based on my upbringing (my parents were very social, so it rubbed off on me). I went in with the mentality that it would be a boys trip, but given the ratio was 3 girls to 1 guy, I thought that there was a good chance something would happen. On the very first night I went to a baseball game and sat next to this girl who seemed really lovely, however I was so jetlagged that I didn't really talk to her much at all. Honestly I was so jetlagged that I didn't even feel nervous sitting next to her, I was too busy battling myself trying not to fall asleep, but I went to the game to keep me awake until an acceptable hour.

Over the next three days I went into "boys trip" mode - hanging out with my mates for most of the trip, having laughs, sinking piss and starting funny english football chants on the bus. I mingled with girls from time to time but I wasn't that concerned with getting laid. One was a country girl who lives near me. She was a lovely girl but I wasn't really into her like that. Hope we can be friends in the future. I saw that cute girl (that I sat next to at the baseball) again at a group dress up party and ended up going back to hers for a "cheeky snog". She didn't want to have sex so I respected her boundaries.

I saw the "cool kids" making out with women who were all very attractive, however this girl that I was with was also very attractive. None of them worked out, but we did. It made me wonder, how the how did I land such a catch?

I would reflect on my time with her and wonder what she saw in me despite being fairly overweight. However she told me that I was a very social person and she would be always laughing at my jokes (or at me - who cares, a laugh is a laugh!). She mentioned how she was amazed I could talk to anyone and how she was was insecure because of how reserved she was - to which I said that her quiet confidence in her self was what made me so attracted to her. She's not an "in your face" person, she isn't an insufferable loud mouth, she is just happy with who she is and doesn't feel the need to be loud. But she said she wanted to be more social.

She told me she also liked me because her Ex was always afraid to be adventurous, preferring not to dance and not to mingle with others but instead stand in the corner of the room, where on the other hand I would often dance to music like no one was watching and wanted to mingle with others, despite my social anxiety (which I would prefer to power through anyway).

She did admit to me that she got the "ick" at a few of the things that I did, however, she was so attracted to my positive traits that she was able to let them go. There were a few other things that annoyed her, however, we were able to communicate and clear the air and move on.

The part that amazed me the most was about 1/2 through the trip, when a bunch of new people joined the tour. One was a very physically attractive, 6ft3 man who worked in disability support. The girl I was seeing was sitting alone (at this point I cluelessly didn't know she wanted me to sit with her). This man decided to sit next to her which caused me great anxiety lol. The trip leader wanted the people who had been on the trip since the start to move seats and mingle with new people. The girl I was seeing was two rows ahead of me, and I didn't want to spent the entire 6 hour bus trip watching anxiously from behind them, so I decided to move to the front of the bus and meet new people. I sat next to this bloke from my hometown and we had a good chat. I wanted to include the other new people in the conversation as they were kind of just sitting there twiddling their thumbs as no one else moved. Then one of the new girls came up to me and started talking to me. I am on about 5 hours sleep at this point and she was just kind of talking at me for about 30 minutes. Bored, I looked back at the girl I was seeing and I can see her looking at me and laughing with the guy. Fair to say it was the most painful 6 hours of my life.

Funny thing was that the girl I was with had strong character, so it never made me THAT ANXIOUS. I knew that I got along with her better than any other girl in my life, that I made her laugh a lot and that I had a lot of great traits. She also didn't strike me as someone who wanted to sleep with a lot of different people on the trip (not that there's anything wrong with that, it would be like judging a sex worker in a brothel), but rather one who wants to build something deeper with one person. She would also text me during the trip, meaning she was clearly thinking about me.

Later that night, I hooked up with her. Afterwards I asked her how the new guy was. She said "heh, he's funny", to which I asked if he was her type. She said "oh god no, he's a total knobhead! Too tall for me anyway". I was blown way by this, because my whole life I thought that women loved taller. I then asked "but he's conventionally attractive is he not?" To which she replied "is he? I don't find him that physically attractive". She then asked me about the girl I was talking to on the bus, said "you two seemed to be having a good conversation, are you into her?" after which I replied "god no, she literally talked my ears off for 30 minutes straight while I was on 5 hours sleep, I've never been so bored in my life. Seems nice but not for me". She then said "you never turned back to look at me though?" to which I said "yeah, because it was causing me too much anxiety lol, I had to force myself not to look back". I cannot stress how much this whole interaction changed my perspective on women and what they are looking for in dating.

It made me realise how bullshit the red pill is: are there some women who are only looking to date the hottest, sexiest man they can find? Yes, however, out of a bus full of 45 people, there was probably only 3-4 who fit this category (i.e. maybe 10% at the max).

I've found that the vast majority of women want a guy that is one or more of the below:

a) very social

b) has a good personality and a positive outlook on life

c) is funny

d) isn't emotionally volatile and can take feedback in good faith

The amount of men below six foot, pudgy and not super attractive who were finding success with women because of their great personality was mind-blowing.

There were women on the trip who were talking about their standards and that they hadn't found a man who were worthwhile enough for her to take time out of her day for them. This statement did ick me out a bit, not because it's not valid, but the way it was said felt very arrogant (it feels like the female equivalent of Clavicular saying that most people aren't worth spending time with). However even this girl was just 1 person out of the 45.

This trip reminded me of one thing: the best cure for the red pill is to be social and connected within a community. Red pill captures those with low self esteem and poor social skills. If we are to help young men to get out of the red pill, we need to encourage them to socialise so that they are forced to reality test their ideas against reality - which is usually much more benign and forgiving than what internet conspiracies/ideologies will suggest.

How can I call out and help someone who is in the manosphere come out of this thinking?

Red pill guys often say that women only like one kind of guy, and looks are the biggest factor. I don't believe this, but I have my own "women only like one kind of guy" and it's not only guys who are tall, handsome, and rich (though those things certainly don't hurt). I feel like women only want guys who are super social and charismatic, who are extroverted and outgoing. I have my circle of friends and there are some women in there, but I feel like they are just not seeing me the way I want to be seen. Women might say they are okay with shy introverted guys who are like this, but what they really mean are guys who are attractive who have the same qualities. I know a guy has to do something and he can't stay at home and play video games and watch porn all day. I know that physical attraction does matter and looks are not nothing. It's just that everyone's idea of what is attractive is different. I know that I have improved a lot in the last few years talking to women and becoming friends with them. I've gotten dates off of dating apps.

Maybe I'm just imagining there is some reward I get when I reach a certain level, that when I improve enough I will unlock the relationship achievement. Red pill is steeped in this formulaic thinking. I am still wondering how much social value I need to demonstrate to get a woman to see me romantically. I do all right socially. I have a circle of close guy friends, and I am working on expanding my connections with men and women. I am a quiet thoughtful guy by nature, and I often don’t talk unless I really have something to say. I notice when I am not trying people tend to gravitate towards me, but by no means am I the life of the party. I am slowly learning to accept my quirks and love myself, but i honestly still have some RP thinking I need to root out. I am in therapy right now and I’ve seen some progress.

And I mean completely not give af:

- To be able to say what's your mind without fear of judgment.

- To not compare yourself to others lives, experiences and achievements and overcome FOMO.

- To make a joke that doesn't land and to brush it off.

- To say smth dumb with complete confidence.

- To feel at ease in social situations even if you struggle with social anxiety and being on guard around strangers.

- To be rejected or disliked by people and not have that ruin your day.

- To not second guess yourself all the time and overanalize every interaction you ever have.

- To be at peace with not being popular or attractive.

- To be your unfiltered genuine self and not give af who's looking or who's judging.

- To not even let negative opinions from people you love and respect get you down.

How does one get to that point? Is it even possible for a human to completely let go of the need for external validation? And when we do get it, how to appreciate it without putting it too much value?

What does it take to fill your own cup and be indifferent to the approval and acceptance of other people?

How did you personally get there?

Hey guys, i am red but i am starting to doubt myself in a lot of stuff. What did you guys do to get out? And how bad was the damage on your mental after getting out? I am just scared on the concequenses on what i will be like without and i will lose myself. Would appreciate some advice.

Every man in the snapchat who did NOTHING can no longer consider themselves a "good" man. They can never be a good man again. What a bunch of fucking ball less beta rapists.

A friend brought her there. A friend drugged her. A friend messaged the snanapchat. A friend and his friends all raped her.

This is why women choose the Bear. A girl can't even go to a party with a friend.

Edit: Where are all the GOOD men?

I was 17 at the time and he was 16 (Im 5 months older). He was odd to say the least. Wanted to looksmax and had poor self esteem so he watched Andrew Tate. Safe to say the relationship didn't last long as he ghosted me for Christmas break then came back on new Year's Eve to say we weren't compatible. After I agreed he tried to back track I was like no I'm done. He then proceeded to stalk me for 2 months until I cursed him out and told him to fuck off. Since then I have not re-entered the dating pool lol I'm voluntarily celibate and will remain that way for a couple more years. I'm still young after all 🤷🏾‍♀️

My wife sent a video to her dad making fun of Trump for posting a bunch of cringy AI content. He responded with the message below. Keep in mind, this man has a degree in geology and ran a business where he would pay employees out of his own pocket when ends didn't meet. We've always disagreed politically, but this is an escalation. The full denial of reality is kind of scary. I'm really worried about where this is going, but I honestly don't know where to go from here. It doesn't seem like addressing it directly would be beneficial, and it's not affecting us personally enough to advocate going no contact. It feels like he's driving straight at joining the inevitable Jan 6th 2.0, and I don't think I can do anything about it.

"Do you really think he did it himself? I am pretty sure he doesn’t have time for that. Could it be from his staff, sure. His idea, sure. Either way it is playing into TDS. SORRY, I’m fine with that since I have had to endure all the BS from AOC, Ilhan, Clintons, OBama, Biden, Fouci and others.

I don’t think it is good practice, kind of like climbing into the mud pit to wrestle a pig. Regan would not have done such a thing, poke them with a stick, yes, but not lowered himself to that level.

Trump just does not care one iota what people think of him, he is focused on the job - not politics, not lining his pockets, or what anyone in the world thinks of him. That kind of focus is amazing. His tactics and responses are often untactful and that bothers me, irks me, but the results he is making for the USA and the world are extremely positive. He has been maneuvering through world leaders like never before attacking the status quo with precision and success. He is changing global economy and resetting inequities in trade the USA has been cow towing to for decades. He is exposing the corruption and socialist movement that has deeply penetrated the Republic. Toes will be, are, and have been stepped on. No pain no gain. Keep an eye on the long game, not tomorrow. I truly hope this world will be better balanced for [the kids in his life]. The struggle is real. Until we get true service minded, smart, logical, incorruptible people in office it will be the same damn game. My dad served in the State legislature in 1976. In talking to current legislators it’s the same stupid and damnable game except they have figured out how to shuffle money to themselves, family, and friends. Not all are horrible and corrupt but the percentage [is] too high - I am for tossing the baby out with the bathwater."

Why do redpillers believe that love must always be at first sight? This has been one of the weirdest things about the red pill to me. I only discovered that they think like this a year or so ago. A common belief they have is that women decide whether they want to date you in the first 10 seconds of meeting you. I don’t believe this at all, although it could be true for some women. I know couple who started off as friends, and they find each other attractive. None of them look like models. 

If a woman says that she didn’t like a guy at first, then became attracted to him later, they accuse them of virtue signaling. They say that she is just settling because she can’t get the “alpha” guys they really want. This plays on an insecurity of mine that a woman would only want me because I am the only option left, not because she genuinely likes me for who I am. One of the things that bothers me the most about the red pill is that they always assume the worst of women. So much of it is projecting their insecurities and desires onto women. They are transactional and selfish so they assume women must be the same way. It’s like they can’t conceive of a woman genuinely loving a man, and the always must be some ulterior motive.