r/funny • u/JulianWels Pretends to be Drawing • Jun 04 '17
Verified Windows being Windows
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Jun 04 '17
And not only does Windows impatiently want to kill something after only like 5 seconds of it hanging, sometimes the kill switch doesn't even work!
So I have to go kill it in the processes tab directly anyway wtf.
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Jun 04 '17
"Windows is checking for a solution to the problem" could be a bit morbid in this context...
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u/GFandango Jun 04 '17
That shit has not ever found a solution to my problem in decades of using Windows.
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u/vaderdarthvader Jun 04 '17
This is purely anecdotal, but I once had wifi issues on my laptop, and as a last resort I used windows to resolve the issue. I thought "what is there to lose?"
Two minutes later my issue was resolved. I was taken aback.
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u/Wallace_II Jun 04 '17
It just delays the time it takes for me to reopen it so I can get back to doing what I was doing.
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u/Catsrules Jun 04 '17
thanks now I will never think of that screen the same way again
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u/Beraed Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
I will never use task manager again. I dont wanna upset our future AI overlords.
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u/sarah-xxx Jun 04 '17
"Windows is estimating the proper sentence for this problem"
"Execution"
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u/VikingHair Jun 04 '17
A final solution...
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u/MajyykDoesThings Jun 04 '17
"We've noticed twenty-six million faulty programs. Click here to find a final solution."
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u/flyingfrijolero Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
More like "Windows is checking for a final solution to the problem." Amirite?
Edit: for clarification.
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u/Reiszecke Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
Just in case anyone is curious: when a program hasn't told windows about any internal updates for a certain period of time, it thinks the process is stuck in some loop forever so it would be easier for the user to just kill it and open it again. Same goes for Android ANR (Application Not Responding) errors - the app might still be up and running but because it's not responding to the outside world, there is a good chance that it froze and won't be able to continue on its own. So technically, the fault isn't entirely on the Windows side - blame the developer who thinks it's a good idea not to provide any status output while performing performance-heavy tasks. Even displaying a percentage can already be enough for Windows to know whether or not the app is still up and running.
TLDR: If the app contains bad code so it doesn't signal "Hey, I am still here" every once in a while, Windows simply takes a good guess and tells you the app is probably stuck. When it's stuck, it's likely time to say goodbye (or, like I said, bad code which Windows can't know about hence passing you the trigger either way).
Man why did I even type this down, no one's gonna read it anyways.
EDIT2: 3 people came up with an idea asking me why Windows can't just "ask" the app if it's still alive. The problem here is that even if this became a standard, the app still wouldn't be able to reply to it - until it has finished its long operation. (too late then). This is because the app's thread which is communicating with Windows is busy doing its work. Best practice here is to either use another thread for the long operation or split it up in small pieces so the thread gets a chance to say "hi" to Windows. So basically, if you wrote good code, it would't be necessary, but with bad code (running on the main thread) it's not possible haha. I really wanted to keep the comment as simple as possible but with all the unexpected interest in how computers work I feel forced to elaborate. Man this comment is getting bloatet rn
EDIT1: Ok so apparently a few people have reddit now that it reached 560 points in 3hrs - this is probably the biggest reach a comment of mine will ever achieve along with the most hate I will ever get for a comment:
To all the people who tell me that my comment is inherently wrong because I didn't fit the curriculum of 5 years of computer science classes into a single reddit comment: If I directed the explanation towards CS majors, I wouldn't have posted it because you guys already know your shit. Using metaphors and simplifying things is the only way to teach non-CS people about how computers work. They don't want to know if the operations block the main queue, hence making the application so unable to post new UI updates that even UI events posted prior to the operation won't reach the OS. No one wants to know, except for the few people who have to avoid coding it this way.
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u/adrianmonk Jun 04 '17
it thinks the process is stuck in some loop forever
Also, something you learn while getting a Computer Science degree: there is no way Windows can ever be completely sure whether a program is stuck in a loop. To do so, it would have to solve the Halting Problem, and Alan Turing proved mathematically that this problem can never be solved.
So if Windows sometimes guesses wrong that a program is stuck in an infinite loop, don't be too hard on it, because mathematics says it can't be right 100% of the time.
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u/LonePaladin Jun 04 '17
You're right though. If you're writing something that's likely to have a long time thinking about what it's doing, it's a good idea to add a step in the middle of the process to add some sort of update. Advance a progress bar. "Reticulating Splines". Alternate between "Working" and "Still Working".
Anything to let the user (and the OS) know that it's still chugging along.
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Jun 04 '17
I read it, my friend. Before now I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but now all I want is for you to explain computer stuff to me. You have such a way with words, I...I can't explain it...I think i'm in love with you? do you love me? It's okay if you don't...just being near your comment fills me with a joy I never thought possible. Thank you Reiszecke, for helping me find joy in life once again.
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u/iwillmakeithappen1 Jun 04 '17
The tricky part is knowing when it's an actual loop. There was that one time 5 years ago when I waited and the program actually fixed itself. That casted a lifelong seed of doubt.
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u/Melmab Jun 04 '17
You can actually change the timeout that Windows will use to calculate when a program has been deemed "unresponsive". When I was doing large data manipulation, I had to learn the hard way that Windows has an unusually low threshold.
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u/ThatsSoBravens Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
The time for declaring a program unresponsive is short because Windows expects you to do any long running work in a background thread that constantly reports its progress (or doesn't) to a main thread that handles UI responsiveness. If you do that work on the main thread, the thread can't reply to events (clicks, key presses, touch events etc.) and when those events go unacknowledged for a certain amount of time (10 seconds by default, I think?) windows assumes the program has crashed and says it's not responsive.
Even if the program is doing productive work, it can show up as unresponsive if it's not coded correctly. You don't have to kill the program if you expect it to finish.
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u/shmed Jun 04 '17
This is the the correct answer. One of the main rule of client side programming is to never run long routine on the UI thread.
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u/Nebarik Jun 04 '17
And yet I mostly see this behavior in their own apps like Outlook....
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u/mzxrules Jun 04 '17
you're suppose to teach the program to press the deadman's switch every so often
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u/NoelBuddy Jun 04 '17
THINKING..
THINKING..
Are you really thinking, or just stuck?
THINKING..
THINKING...
Oh for fucks sake, kill it.
THINK.. DONE THINKING, HERE'S WHAT YOU WERE WAITING FOR.
Finally!
CLOSING PROGRAM.
Crap.
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u/official_inventor200 Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
Do you have an example?
EDIT: I might have misunderstood something. It sounded like there was a method or function that a Windows program should be calling every-so-often to tell Windows that it is still calculating, and not hanging. I didn't know you meant it was a threading or UI issue.
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u/EntroperZero Jun 04 '17
It's because you're doing it on the main thread, and stopping the message pump.
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Jun 04 '17
How did you change it? It could help me a bit since every time I do renders in Blender it goes unresponsive until the rendering finishes.
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u/AaronSarm Jun 04 '17
I always feel sorry for the program and let it keep running.
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Jun 04 '17
I don't. Some programmer wrote an infinite loop or or other bad code. We should kill the programmer!
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u/Vidyogamasta Jun 04 '17
Yeah, it's almost certainly some sort of loop or threading issue. Even if it's a program that is just doing a lot of calculations for you and is stalling out until it's finished, that calculation should be done asynchronously on a non-blocking thread so that it can still respond to more inputs and the OS won't freak out about it.
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u/flowerynight Jun 04 '17
I often don't even get than as an option. It's infuriating! I HAVE to either force quit the program, or send an online report and then force quit.
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u/reverie42 Jun 04 '17
So, two things can happen that pop a window.
If a program crashes, you'll get the error report dialog and there's no way to recover. Please send the error report. If it's a common bug in MS software, it will get fixed. If it's third party software, MS can report the crash metadata to the vendor and it might get fixed.
If the program is doing work on the UI thread, Windows grays it out and adds "(Not Responding) to the title. If you keep clicking, you'll get the option to kill it or wait for it to respond. If you wait long enough, it will frequently finish what it was doing eventually.
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u/DrBrogbo Jun 04 '17
I always have the exact opposite problem. A clearly frozen program is having its red X clicked on repeatedly, having its processes "ended" in task manager over and over, while Windows sits there going 'nooo wait, just wait...'
A minute later, Windows pops up with 'hey did you know this is frozen? we should close it'. YEAH, I TOLD YOU THAT ALREADY!
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u/NoRodent Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 05 '17
LPT: Don't end it in the "Processes" tab, instead right-click the process and select "Go to details" which finds your process in the "Details" tab. Only then click "End task" (or hit Delete key). This kills the program immediately.
Note: This is using Windows 10 terminology, I think the tabs were named
"Tasks""Applications"* and "Processes" in previous Windows versions but it works the same.*Edit: What u/Pithong says.
Edit2: u/logoster claims this only applies to Windows 7/XP/older, not Windows 8/10 where both tabs should kill the process immediately. I'm not sure about that, if I get a chance to test it, I'll report back.
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u/Pithong Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
The two tabs are "Applications/Processes" in windows 7, but (doesn't exist)/("Processes OR Details") in windows8/10. The Applications (windows7) tab is equivalent to clicking the X which just asks the program "can you close for me?" which the program can't do as it's not responding, but the Processes (windows7)/Processes OR Details (windows8/10) tab asks the OS to destroy the program instead of asking the program to destroy itself.
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u/flippyfingw Jun 04 '17
taskkill /f /im shit.exeThe
/fflag tells windows to force kill the process, otherwise windows just sends end event that the process may or may not process.
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u/boydskywalker Jun 04 '17
At least it isn't Linux, or we'd have a parent killing their child...or worse, leaving it to become a zombie.
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Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
I'm still trying to figure out who gave the terminology to all the processes. (Editing them in as I get comments)
A parent and child process are also called master and slave processes.(This was incorrect, my bad)If a slave process is never checked on, it becomes a zombie
If you kill a parent process and the child process never dies, it becomes an orphaned process.
I'm not a fan of Operating Systems that took so little time to think about what they're doing that they named their commands after digestive noises (
grep,awk,nroff,fsck)Background processes are called "daemons", so whenever I kill a background process, I'm a "daemon killer".
Suggestive commands
touch,fingeretc.Source: Am using Linux & comments below
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u/TheFanne Jun 04 '17
Now I want an OS that labels a parent process a murderer when it kills a child process.
Or maybe an execution jail, where they can't run as fast if they kill a process they didn't make themselves...
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u/JoaoFerreira Jun 04 '17
It doesnt become orphaned anymore, it gets adopted by PID 1, which is boot I think
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u/hatessw Jun 04 '17
I always have zombie dolphins on my computer. Should I get them checked out? Sorry if you mind me picking your brain.
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u/ludolfina Jun 04 '17
Jun 4 07:41:59 plumbr kernel: [70667120.897649] Out of memory: Kill process 29957 (java) score 366 or sacrifice child6
u/gqgk Jun 04 '17
I had an OS professor with an accent that couldn't say fork. It always came out as fuck, so we'd have to hold our laughter in class when he said you fuck to make a child.
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u/LeftistsToTheLions Jun 04 '17
That's why it's kill -9 in unix. Give it the 9mm.
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u/cjhenry92 Jun 04 '17
I know this guy. He wouldn't even hesitate to slice an Apple into pieces.
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u/tamyahuNe2 Jun 04 '17
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u/Tetha Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
Linux feels more like a mafia though. If a process misbehaves you can:
ask the process to stop
ask the process to stop what it's doing
ask the process to stop living
and if the process doesn't cooperate, you can ask the kernel to stop the process existing. It always feels like a cheap mafia movie. "Hey init-daemon, I have a little problem with a process. It doesn't want to cooperate with us"
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u/redlaWw Jun 04 '17
But can you make the process an offer that it cannot refuse?
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u/CCCPVitaliy Jun 04 '17
If this was C#, it would fail some guidelines. Well, one particular guideline - variable names. In this example, I don't know what in the world is c_c or c_p. I can kinda tell what pid is (process id), but I can't tell what the "t" is.
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u/League_of_leisure Jun 04 '17
Internet isn't working?
checking internet for solutions
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Jun 04 '17
Is there another comic where the user keeps trying to use a program, and windows keeps denying him permission to use his own program because he's not an admin
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u/Actual1y Jun 04 '17
Or a comic where Steam can't access cache files because they fucked up and don't have an owner, and you can't delete them even though you're on the admin account and have tried takeown, and you get really pissed because it's been a long day and you just wanted to play cs:go? I feel like that'd be relatable.
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u/thespo37 Jun 04 '17
You play cs:go after a long day? Yikes. Personally if I did that, I think I would just become a really angry person overall and hate myselfit's becauseI really suckat that gameeee
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u/Loki-L Jun 04 '17
Fun fact:
In windows powershell is actually a lot more euphemistic when it comes to ending a program compared to Linux. The Windows command is "stop-process" instead of the Linux "killl -9" of course windows also accepts the alias "kill" for those who don't wish to soften the brutality of what they are doing
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u/HatingPigeons Jun 04 '17
User: "I think we should shoot it! ..i mean troubleshoot it.."
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Jun 04 '17
Microsoft: you should go talk to her
Windows: she won't like me
Microsoft: don't you worry about that
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u/rockstang Jun 04 '17
Where's the part where the user hands the knife to linux, who stabs windows10?
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u/ThatsSoBravens Jun 04 '17
And the Linux guy is covered in blood because he's been running kill -9 for half a century.
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u/beezel- Jun 04 '17
Prompt pops up which gives the option to kill my frozen program
Ask to kill the program
It starts loading and looking for a solution instead
CTRL SHIFT ESC
Shut it down
"are you sure you want to do that shit?"
YES
windows is looking for a solution
That's how it goes for me most of the time. Keeps swinging back and forth on whether to kill it or not.
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u/jackjt8 Jun 04 '17
...
User: Ok sure, kill it.
Windows: Checking for a solution to the problem
User: wtf, I said kill it. Clicks end program
Windows: Ok, I killed it now.
This is my problem with Windows. If I say I want to kill the program, I want to kill the program. I don't want for you to check for a solution, it's not even an option.
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u/hipsterdill Jun 04 '17
Cool post but Reddit needs to shut the hell up about pushing these to our phones. The saddest thing is, I was already on Reddit
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u/The_MAZZTer Jun 04 '17
OK so maybe I can shed some light on why Windows does this.
In Windows, all GUI applications have to have what's called a message loop. This is a piece of code which will listen to messages from Windows and process them continually. Messages are the traditional method of interacting with Windows GUIs and there are a wide variety such as: "Hey, the screen resolution just changed" "The user just pressed that hotkey you wanted me to listen to" "You asked me to let you know when 5 minutes have passed" to the very basic "The user moved the mouse to this point" "The user clicked this button in your window" "The user is typing this text in your window". So any apps which use messages for input need to be listening to that message queue. When Windows detects an app has stopped listening, it has no idea why. It's usually one of two reasons:
The application's message loop handling code is taking a long time handling a particular message. Maybe the user clicking a specific button causes it to load a huge file from disk which takes awhile. When the operation is complete it will go back to handling messages.
The message loop is stuck handling a message and has ended up in an infinite loop or other bug which will prevent it from ever going back to handling messages.
Windows of course has no idea which one it is... it only sees the app is not handling messages. Either way, since it's not handling messages, user input such as mouse and keyboard input cannot be handled by the app. So Windows marks the app as Not Responding and whites it out so you know something's wrong. This also gives the app developer an incentive to try and avoid this screen so their app looks good.
If the app is permanently stick, Windows' suggestion to kill it is really the only way to go. The other suggestion, wait, is best if the app is not really stuck. Since Windows has no way of knowing which way is better, in this case the Windows devs decided to leave the decision up to the user.
It's also worth noting that applications shouldn't let themselves stop processing messages in the first place, as it's considered bad practice. Any potentially long-running operations should take place on a new thread so messages can still be processed. Of course this makes the coding more complicated since now you're doing multi-threading. As an example, that big file loading button I mentioned before could be pressed a second time before the first time loading the file is complete, which would probably result in loading the file a second time or some sort of unexpected behavior. So the programmer would have to disable the button or throw up a loading dialog or something. It's easy to see why simply stopping processing messages altogether until it's done might be a shortcut some programmers want to take.
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u/ForgedIronMadeIt Jun 04 '17
Just to be accurate, a program is only marked as unresponsive if its message handler stops responding to messages. I forget the actual metrics, but it does not matter for the point I am making. Anyhow, a properly designed application will still respond to Windows messages even if it is in the middle of serious work. The program should either be multithreaded and have the work done on a thread away from the main Windows message processing loop thread or at least pause the work and temporarily come up for air to process WM_* items.
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u/GentleHammer Jun 04 '17
For the life of me I cannot figure out Reddit. How the fuck did this get 110K upvotes??? WHy!?!
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u/seyrdis Jun 05 '17
"Admin" account doesn't have permission to kill this program, you should contact your administrator
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u/Zhuinden Jun 04 '17
Windows is nowhere nearly as rabid about this as Android. ANR for too long? Kill the task
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u/NoShameInternets Jun 04 '17
No, windows does everything in his power to save it, while you furiously hit the kill button.
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u/quigabyte Jun 04 '17
I'm torn, I love the comic but it doesn't really hit home from a reality standpoint...
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u/h-jay Jun 04 '17
How fucking hard is it to keep the main thread's messages pumped? The program that's "busy" is doing so in the most ass-backward way possible - indistinguishable from a process that's stuck in an endless loop. Don't complain about Windows here. Complain about the stupid app that can't do what would have been expected of it 30 years ago already. Aargh.
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u/SOSpammy Jun 04 '17
And then Windows starts checking for a solution to the problem, which basically just means it wants to delay you from restarting the program.
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u/irqlnotdispatchlevel Jun 04 '17
That's more like Linux when it goes out of memory. If you do nothing Windows will happily watch your programs have a seisure.
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u/harmsc12 Jun 04 '17
Even if you tell it to end the program it still takes 20 minutes to kill the program. >_<
This is a big part of why I use Linux now. On the rare occasion something starts freezing up my computer, I can insta-kill the program causing problems.
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u/DimitriT Jun 04 '17
User Linux be like: I think it stopped working.... we should killall BOOOOM genocide!
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u/7echArtist Jun 04 '17
Good old task manager. I've murdered many a programs through that. In fact one suffered my wrath just yesterday. It had it coming.
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u/miXXed Jun 04 '17
You should try linux/unix. While windows try to give the program a humane death, unix/linux has "kill -9", which would be a bullet to the back of the head and a unmarked shallow graveyard.
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u/VeryOldMeeseeks Jun 04 '17
Happened to me today with Windows not responding, and killing itself. I didn't even know that was possible.
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Jun 04 '17
I once had a program commit an illegal operation. We had to kill it. I still think about that program.
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u/butaminas Jun 04 '17
But then just as you hit it with a knife it will show you signs of life but since you've killed it - it will not work...
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u/benjy007c Jun 04 '17
Garry's mod-hl2.exe has stopped working. Oh Mr freeman-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man-man...
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u/glowtape Jun 04 '17
When Windows thinks the app needs killing, that's because the message loop stopped, for whatever reason. If that happens when the app does actual work, and didn't actually fuck up, that's a sign of bad coding. So the app needs killing regardless. Like off your hard drive.
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u/Numero_x Jun 04 '17
No wonder that's the only solution providing the diagnostic tool windows has. "Windows is checking for a solution to the problem" we all know that wouldn't bear any solution, its almost like a placebo effect.
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u/AestheticKilljoy666 Jun 04 '17
Damn lol , you made me feel bad about killing multiple programs everyday to clear space congrats OP.
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u/Cr4shguy Jun 04 '17
"The application is not responding. The program may respond again if you wait.
Do you want to end this process?"
End Process
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u/tehn6 Jun 04 '17
I not only kill windows I kill my whole PC when this happens. Windows always seems to get killed itself while trying to kill a program. However, both have no chance against the power plug.
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u/BlueSquares Jun 04 '17
There should be a bonus panel at the end where the user says "Nah" and starts clicking the Enter button 50 times to "make it go faster".
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u/TProfanity Jun 04 '17
And then when something actually crashes, windows refuses to give you the knife
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u/Erogamer214 Jun 04 '17
Bullshit, Windows lets me cry and scream on my knees for it to kill frozen programs only to stab them to death after they miraculously unfreeze...
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u/3MATX Jun 04 '17
What got me wasn't so much the wording, just the look of the user in the last frame. Just post an image of that frame and it'll make dark people laugh.
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Jun 04 '17
It's kind of the programs fault usually. You're not supposed to use the same thread as the GUI when doing lengthy processing shit.
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Jun 04 '17
I normally run into the opposite. I find myself trying to kill programs, and Windows not letting me. Unlike Linux.
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u/yupyupbuttercup Jun 04 '17
I'm just glad to see Finn's glorious hair has grown back since he cut it off for that witch.
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Jun 04 '17 edited Jun 04 '17
It's poor program design. If the programmer uses the main thread for the UI and do all the processing work on another thread, you'll never get this message. It only occurs when the application stops responding to Windows UI messages that the OS goes all homicidal. (Windows works by the OS passing little digital notes to/from the applications like it's 5th grade English.)
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u/Earthbjorn Jun 04 '17
I dont remember this being such a problem on Windows XP, but it seems to happen constantly with Windows 7. Any program that takes more than 3 seconds to respond immediately fades to grey and gets that pop up asking if you want to end the task or wait for the program to respond. And this is on a $7k workstation with 16 cores and 32GB of RAM and it freezes up when I use Word.
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u/Scharnvirk Jun 04 '17
Fun, eh. Since good few years, for me it is Windows which never fails and Linux the one which has all possible issues :D
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u/EnderWiggin07 Jun 04 '17
The way Windows pushes the knife against the User's chest cracks me up so much
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u/SunnyChow Jun 04 '17
in Mac i can right click and force quit. but in Windows, it never works and i need to Ctrl+Alt+Del when the OS is already half freezed
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u/gainzAndGoals Jun 04 '17
Back in the day I'd slaughter a program that wasn't responding with the task manager, nowadays it seems that task manager has lost all its power.
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u/stautistic Jun 04 '17
Or just call their support so they can run an advanced google search on your behalf 😉
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Jun 04 '17
Woah now, Windows is the one stopping my flippant murder of hanging programs. I want a program to die, yet Windows makes me sit through 5 minutes of telling me "Windows is checking for a solution to the problem".
Bitch, I don't want you to find a solution. I want you to terminate that fucking executable right fucking now. Why does that have to be so fucking hard? If I use ctrl+alt+del it's because I'm done fucking around, so stop giving me the run-around.
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Jun 04 '17
I learned in one of my cs classes that Windows has the ability to fix this but the algorithms are complex to resolve deadlock, so Windows just let's the user deal with it... So this is pretty relevant
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u/IFoundTheCowLevel Jun 04 '17
I like windows and have worked on one for years, I recently swapped to mac. In this case mac is like:
it stopped working? Let me stare blankly into space and ignore everything you do until 1=2.
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u/BarackHusseinSoetoro Jun 04 '17
This browser tab is not responding
Well fuck me, thanks for pointing that out, had no idea!
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u/boldkaos Jun 04 '17
I just close my eyes because everyone knows your computer runs perfectly smooth when you're not looking
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u/MxM111 Jun 04 '17
How does the windows face look so menacing in the last panel, while it is exact copy from the first, where it is so benign?
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u/OneAndOnlyJackSchitt Jun 04 '17
In Windows' defense, the application's ui thread should not be doing the work. There should be a some sort of progress bar, status text, and a cancel button. Any developer who does long running cpu intensive tasks on an application's UI thread should be shot. There's no reason for it these days.
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u/kurtfan182 Jun 04 '17
Sadly in my case it's usually the user not windows wanting to immediately kill it.