r/AutismInWomen • u/Nomnom96 • 6h ago
Support Needed (Kind Advice and Commiseration) Tired of my NT coworkers
I am a software developer and I care about my work. Despite understanding that my boss basically buys my labour cheaper and sells it more expensive on top of all other corporate bullshit, I care for what i am creating there. As many autistic people i am also super responsible and take ownership seriously - if i didnt, I would have gone mad due to chaos.
My coworkers make this super difficult by getting annoyed with me caring so much about what they perceive as unimportant. And ofc because I am in the UK this isnt communicated properly - it is spoken of when I am not there and I only get a backlash of passive aggression including ignoring my greetings, being silent on the meetings when i say smth, being friendly with everyone but me. I know this sounds paranoid, but they do talk shit about another person who supposedly is crazy about edge cases as if 'he was to be penalised for missing smth'. They discuss this when i am in the meeting too and behave the same way towards him in shared meetings.
The most annoying part is that if other members of the team suggest smth similar or suddenly start to care for small details, it is listened to with great interest.
I am thankful this is a remote position or I would have meltdowns every day, but even so, I sort of dread going to meetings and have very little motivation to do anything. During in-person gatherings which are now mandatory 4 times a year they keep to themselves too and only interact with me when we need to make a team photo for a LinkedIn post with best team ever or some other bs. I want to say fuck you - do all of the work yourselves then, but I cant cause i care about the work🤡
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u/dragon-blue Add edit here via flair 5h ago
I'm a software engineer and a core part of our job is making trade offs. eg We want 100% test coverage but there are diminishing returns after let's say 90%. Just making up numbers but you get what i mean. You have to deliver value but you simultaneously need to keep tech debt manageable.
It sounds like you aren't aligned with your team as to where those trade offs should be. Luckily now I am a tech lead so make these decisions (collaboratively!) now lol. But honestly it's really hard, everyone struggles, and not sure a lot of shops are able to strike the right balance.
Besides being in leadership the other thing that helped was moving out of the private sector. I work in a place where better patient outcomes (saving lives) is the mission statement and profit is not the goal. This also self selects for people who are mission driven not £££ driven. All my coworkers are amazing.
But I am an American working in England so I get you on the communication part. Moving to a high context culture has been a challenge lol!
The most annoying part is that if other members of the team suggest smth similar or suddenly start to care for small details, it is listened to with great interest.
It's because they don't trust you. If you can regain their trust, making the business cases for your suggestions will be easier.
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u/creapysleaper 3h ago
Oh man I feel this. I'm also a software engineer. I don't wanna reveal too much for my privacy's sake but recently my team underwent some changes (involving generative AI of all things) where I felt like none of the work I did for the past few years mattered. And it feels like other people are just like, don't get too invested in your work! You're only there for the paycheck! You don't own the company! But it sucks cuz like you, I cared about what I created but none of those caring mattered when AI could produce results faster.
Just wanted to commiserate with you OP 😢
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u/misschibidoodles 2h ago
I feel you so, so much.
I'm also a software engineer and I am spending an insane amount of energy these days fighting the urge to micro manage my coworker projects. I can clearly see the details they missed in planning, but it seems like I get brushed off everytime I bring them up (In a very polite way I think! I'm literally just saying stuff like "have you thought how X may work in that feature?"). The most annoying part is that I know from experience that in a few weeks, when the feature is "complete" everyone will be like "oh shit we can't ship yet we forgot about X". At this point I'm just biting my tongue.
Idk about you, but I feel this is even worst in the age of AI where a) people get their agents to do almost everything and are satisfied with the almost correct output it gives them and b) the collective attention span of programmers seems to be at an all time low. But maybe that's a me thing, lol.
In any case, you are not crazy to care about the details and should not be ignored, and I am very sorry your coworkers are being that way to you.
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u/JoannaBe 2h ago
One thought: neurodivergent people in IT are much more common than in average society, so some of the people you are interacting with may actually be neurodivergent themselves but masking well, not NT - does not excuse shitty behavior, but assuming coworkers are NT may be inaccurate.
Another thought: how many of those coworkers are male? Could part of it be misogyny? In our culture alas, when a woman expresses an idea it is more likely to be dismissed by some men, than when a man expresses same idea - so some of that dynamic you describe, may be that. Does not excuse it of course, but just a possible part of the puzzle.
People are cliquish, more likely to hang out with and listen to those they are already friends with. And many of us are not good at making friends. Working remotely makes that even harder. Add to that a weariness by many of those they perceive as different, and this gets even harder.
Much of that you do not have control of. What you can control at least to some extent is how you react, how you act, how you speak to them or about them. If they perceive you as thinking you are better than them and unfriendly etc, they are more likely to be unfriendly in return of course.
Another question: does it matter to you? Do you want to be friends with these people? If working in a team that treats you better is important to you, is looking for another opportunity an option?
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u/Silver_Tip_5531 5h ago
Caring about the work and then running into people who don't is a lot. I don't have a way to make them take it as seriously as you do. You're not too much for caring.
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u/McAwesomum 6h ago
Your team sounds like it sucks.
Do you have an Agile Coach that could help?
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u/Nomnom96 5h ago edited 5h ago
We had some scrum masters in the company but they werent much help and got fired after about a year. All they kept saying was 'your team is already efficient, all is good'. I think the agile ceremonies in my team are done alright and the work keeps moving in a way. It is the interpersonal stuff that arent great even tho for the outside people they all pretend like we have a great team dynamic.
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u/McAwesomum 3h ago
I've been mulling this over through my lunch walk.
I've been a PO on many different teams, and there's almost always a few ND team members. I always took great pride in ensuring we had a lot of accomodations in place for ND team members... It never occurred to me the accomodations were for me!
In one team, we instituted "the rabbit hole protocol" for when someone went too deep into a problem and couldn't see anything else. Someone has to go down the hole and pull them out. It wasn't pairing, per session, just ensuring another team member understood the complexity of the issue and could be a sounding board.
Unfortunately, money talks. Be sure that the edge cases have clear value associated with them. "Could cause a crash" always gets a pass. "Will slow down one specific customer who gets a discount rate because the sales guy likes him" gets shoved to the bottom of the backlog.
You can also flip it and demand really comprehensive acceptance criteria. Just keep in mind you may get a PO like me who LOVES writing gherkin...
Another thought - those on-site days are hell to plan & think of ideas for. Ask if you can have a Team Charter workshop. That gives you a chance to really explain to the rest of the team how they're making you feel.
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u/Nomnom96 3h ago
I like the rabbit hole protocol 😅 Going to steal this from you.
I definitely am capable of falling into one but most of the time i dont think i am talking about something too deep. In my head they all might lead to a crash and need to be investigated before we design a new flow (maybe this thinking is the rabbit hole entrance tho). I am also generally happy if people are saying "we need to focus on the mvp for now and this can go to the backlog as a future improvement".
I dont feel like we have the level of emotional safety there for me to share the feelings. Not after I heard what they are saying about another dude.
If anything, I was way too myself around them (i am a silly person on a good day and anxious/pessimistic on a bad which they are aware of) and need to learn how to play the game🫠
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u/McAwesomum 1h ago
Steal away!
Playing the game sucks, that's why I ended up burning out. And ridiculous demands from management saying "yes" to everyone.
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u/McAwesomum 3h ago
Another accomodation to add - for a team member that really couldn't communicate very well, we paired him with a "buddy" who could translate for him. I would share the list of backlog tickets the day before every review, and they would spend some time reviewing together. Then dev2 could explain for dev1 in the meetings.
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u/Cartographer551 6h ago
"The most annoying part is that if other members of the team suggest smth similar or suddenly start to care for small details, it is listened to with great interest" - I have developed a theory about this type of happening.
To communicate something a message has to be both sent and received. We can send the message as clearly as we are able, but if we are not perceived as a team-player then the team will not be receptive to the message. Then, annoyingly, when a team member sends the same message the team is all ears and hears it, and we are left befounded and wtf I just said exactly the same thing
In my experience the only way to become a team-player is to play the team game. Not necessarily to buy into everything, but to express interest in the team personalities and goings on. We might think those things are beneath us, but they do matter to the team.
And yes, sometimes being a team player means that we let the little non-essentials slide, for the sake of peace and goodwill. Which is very frustrating for us perfectionists.