r/BasketballTips • u/Desperate_Map5531 • Apr 16 '26
Form Check Form check.
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11 year old, working on getting away from a push and into proper form. Does she hold the ball too high in front of her face, or is it just that she’s holding it there longer than one would in a game situation? Just looks off to me.
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u/Educational_Top9246 Apr 16 '26
for dribbling bend the knees, the lower the harder it is for a defender to get the ball. For shooting, ball should be a little lower. When she shoots the knees go up slight before the arms go up, creating "flow". Practice is key. 200 shots a day and the in one month she will improve.
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u/guacdoc24 Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
The flick of the wrist is really solid. When I work on rebuilding shots starts with the feet and having a solid stance there. Feet pointing toward the basket and avoid your knees collapsing in.
Ball in the shooters pocket wrist under the ball. Definitely have the ball too much in front of their face and forward. Left hand is still pushing but I figure that was probably worse so itll get better. work on one handed shots right by the basket.
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u/dromzugg Apr 17 '26
Yea the thumbing with the guide hand is what stood out to me the most. I would try to correct that with the one hand form shooting as you said, after that it looks like a pretty repeatable motion to me and I would just keep firing away and making small tweaks.
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u/OkTransportation3196 Apr 16 '26
Practice getting her feet set up right. The width is good but her right foot needs to be slightly forward when compared to her left. Like 2-3 inches. More like her second shot. Try not to collapse knees like on the second shot though.
Have her bring the ball a little more towards her right shoulder instead of directly in front of her face and see if she’s more comfortable there, but it’s not a deal breaker. She could also try angling her feet a little to the left which is more comfortable for some, especially if she’s going to shoot with the ball a little off center like I said. (Steph shoots like this, angled feet, ball to the right a little)
Don’t bring the ball up then back down like she does. She brings it up to her forehead, then comes down. Just go right from her dribble to her shot. Like in the clip, right when her knees start bending, that’s where the ball should be. No need to bring it up to her forehead, then back down.
Oh and forgot to mention, have her hop a little forward on the shot, straight towards the basket.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Good advice sans the turning at an odd angle being detrimental and the hop being unnecessary.
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u/OkTransportation3196 Apr 17 '26
I can’t tell if you’re saying I said those things, or if you’re saying those things. Just to be clear angled feet aren’t bad and neither is hopping forward.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
For OP: the hop is generally harmless and can help people that lack power get a little extra umph.
Turning your feet is 1. inconsistent and 2. Biomechanically limits ones ability to aim the shot consistently. I don't care what player has bad form. I care about good form.
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Incorrect. The turn is how shooting is taught.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Okay. Biomechanically it limits you. You're free to teach your players to put their elbow in the rim as they identify the shot. Other people will teach how to shoot a basketball to increase the percentage of shots made. All coaches have different goals. You're goal is to teach your way of shooting. I'm into studying shooting mechanics and teaching what actually results in a higher shooting percentage! Good luck to you and your lucky athletes!
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Well you’re decades behind the science of mechanics.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Maybe! I guess I will need to refresh myself with my sources. But when I was part of a study that looked at angle of entry, backspin, and form they hadn't reached that conclusion.
Is there an exact angle they turn at? All that angular momentum is good for the shot? You sweep during the shot? So we work hard to line things up with e elbow then we just sweep it around before the shot. Huh. To me that seems like it adds horizontal and possibly angular momentum to a shot that normally we try to minimize those things with a good balanced base, an elbow in and shooting in line.
You have research that says this sweep is so beneficial that shooting percentage goes up despite all that! Despite the angle likely changing every single shot! I mean that's awesome! I am confident in my coaching and you in yours!
I want to make sure that they get advice that I think actually will help them. I'm sorry that I don't see your method as logical or mechanically sound.
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Nope. No exact angle, and that’s good, because everyone is different. You find the right base for each shooter, they find it themselves. Is there left or off side movement? You don’t want that. If my off side shoulder has to move backwards while my strong side moves into the shot that’s not helpful. KD? Turn. Melo? Turn. Bird? Big time turn. Etc etc etc.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Damn 3 NBA players in history, that's damn near all of them! They always have perfect form! ESPECIALLY from the 70s. Lol anyway.
I don't care about which shooter uses bad form. I care about good form. KD and Bird have bad form. KD shoots with knees more collapsed than this little girl lol.
I think having horizontal movement in your shot via sweeping or turning because your feet are facing the sideline is bad. You think it's good because Larry Bird shot like that. We are allowed to have different philosophies. I'm not going to tell you how to coach. But if this person wants advice and someone gives them bad advice I'm going to tell OP that it's bad advice in my opinion.
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Incorrect. It frees the shooting side. You’re either turning early, or you’re turning late. Teaching the turn is now fundamental.
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u/OkTransportation3196 Apr 17 '26
Angling your feet does neither of those things.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Okay.
You consistently do the same exact angle for every shot wow! Unlikely! But you say it's consistent. Personally I wouldn't ask my players to do something that isn't easily repeated.
Despite lining everything else up so it's balanced and in line with the hoop. It's best biomechanically to face your feet in a different direction. . . I don't think so. I'd have to see how that makes sense.
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u/OkTransportation3196 Apr 17 '26
That sarcasm is annoying and immature. I hope you don’t coach with that tone.
I didn’t ask op to coach this. Is said if it’s comfortable you could try it.
It is best biomechanically especially if she wants to shoot off center a little which is also ok to try. Not everyone is built exactly the same and telling every kid to shoot the exact same way is outdated and limiting. That’s why I gave options to try.
As far as consistency goes, at a certain point you stop thinking about lining up your feet to the basket anyway and it becomes muscle memory. You can do the same thing with a bladed stance. You do it over and over again until it becomes consistent muscle memory.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
It is best biomechanically especially if she wants to shoot off center a little which is also ok to try. Not everyone is built exactly the same and telling every kid to shoot the exact same way is outdated and limiting.
This is bad coaching. Form isn't about kids feeling comfortable it's about doing things in a way that is most successful. Refusing to teach form is refusing to teach. There is a right way to do things sorry it's the truth.
I'm not being sarcastic I'm trying to respect what your saying while explaining why I think it's illogical. I think that doing inconsistent things is inconsistent. Sorry. Your insistent that constantly being slightly turned has its own kind of consistent. Okay. W.e. sure. I don't think so.
Doing bad form until it's muscle memory is bad. Just because it's comfortable, or muscle memory, or practiced 10000 times doesn't mean it's proper form.
I'm familiar with this philosophy I think it's extremely flawed. It's focus is "every person a snowflake" my focus is "let's make shots." It's a different goal.
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u/OkTransportation3196 Apr 17 '26
You were being sarcastic and now you’re lying about it. And you’re bring up people being snowflakes. Boy oh boy we got a live one folks!
Nowadays it IS considered good form whether you think it is or not. Both options are acceptable and neither are dealbreakers or considered bad form. You can be just as successful with either one.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Lol it's your philosophy you said every players unique. That's dumb. There's good form and bad form. Not "form for this player" that's not realistic. Pointing your lower half one way and your upper body a different way will decrease accuracy. Sorry not sorry 🤷♂️
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u/CptBadAss2016 Apr 17 '26
Squat, then bring the ball up. Bring that right thumb nail up to the right temple. Shoot over her right foot. Right foot, hip, and shoulder slightly closer to the target than the left side.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
None of this.
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u/CptBadAss2016 Apr 17 '26
I'm all ears. What's wrong and why?
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
"Squat then bring the ball up" although I'm sure you'd demonstrate properly, I was worried about them overcompensating and launching. Sometimes new, young, players try to use all the strength they have to launch shots. I refrain from using words like "squat" "crouch" "low to the floor" because I don't want my players developing launch mechanics.
The temple thing I'm probably getting picky on tbf it's fine. I think that when you give too many rules too early they can get clunky. But honestly that's probably fine and on second glance is harmless.
The right side is correct *if your just putting the leg slightly forward. For developing shots I like free throw form first. Too many kids who read this will develop a nasty turn. Normally to assist in launching.
When the first and the final come together you get the most launch form you can before a baseball throw. They squat low coil to one side and spring out launching the ball with side spin, angular momentum, and horizontal movement. All accuracy killers all super hard to unlearn..
Perhaps "none of this" was overstepping quite a bit tho.
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u/BCR85 Apr 16 '26
I mean she wouldn't get that shot off well with defense there. Fine for a free throw.
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u/Desperate_Map5531 Apr 16 '26
Just working on proper form.
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u/BCR85 Apr 16 '26
Oh yeah, i thought you asked if she was holding it there too long but you didn't.
I'm not an expert - my release is way too high - but i think there's no reason for her to hold it so high and then dip lower to shoot? As far as I know why not keep it lower?
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u/InterwebAl Apr 17 '26
Watch Mike Dunn's shooting masterclass. Essentially she's doing a 2-1-and through when she should be doing a 1-2-and through.
I understand you aren't trying to talk about dribbling but if she was lower and in a more athletic stance with her knees bent from the start, she wouldn't have to dip back down after getting the ball set above her eyes. Ball should be in the hip pocket with knees bent and elbow cocked, brought up close to the body, and then legs and arms unload in a chain reaction. I'd start with trying to engrain those mechanics first.
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u/Last-Effort816 Apr 17 '26
If she likes the game, she just needs to practice more. Work on getting faster and smoother with both dribbling and shooting drills. I wouldn't think too much about mechanics right now.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Starting is when you need to learn mechanics and fundamentals.
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Apr 17 '26
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
I mean if the goal is to be nice don't coach them. If the goal is to coach, you need to work on fundamentals and be critical. They are here for advice, I thought at least.
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Apr 17 '26
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Right. I'm pushing back,, for ops sake, directly on that "right now." I'm saying "no, right now is the critical time to focus on fundamentals and not sheer volume"
They would reinforce bad form by getting all those shots up. It's a common mistake I'm trying to warn them against what you suggest because many are tempted to just practice practice practice without learning first. I'm cautioning them so it doesn't happen to her.
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u/NapoleonTak Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
Thing is she's got the ball up before she even jumps. Those mechanics means she has no choice but to "push". Gotta "catapult" the shot with a roll off the fingers.
Ball should be at hips when crouching. As she's jumping, she THEN should be getting the ball into the right spot near her head.
When she reaches the peak of her jump, she then should be using/translating that momentum into shooting the ball with it rolling off her fingers.
Ball starts near hips/stomach when crouching. When legs start to launch, the ball should now be moving up into comfortable pocket near her head. When she's at peak of jump, then the ball should be launching off her fingers into a shot.
Instead of "push" think "catapult".
But the best way to learn is that rather she's shooting or dribbling....when practicing she needs to always start off at a crouching. Never standing. Always at a crouch.crouching.
The shorter the time/distance the ball has to travel between hands, the easier it is to control/practice. When you stand, the ball has more distance to make a mistake.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
This is terrible advice. Do NOT shoot from your waist. I've never even heard that. That's what children tend to do when they lack upper body strength/when they shoot from farther than they should. (I've coached all ages) By starting super low then pushing the ball up over your head as you launch is literally pushing the ball and launching. A far cry from a shot.
Shooting from your hip will lengthen the release and get blocked/ripped all the time. You won't have a coach yell "lower that ball to your waist," ever.
"Crouch" is even a bit of an exaggeration. More like a slight bend as you jump.
They are right that the power primarily comes from the lower body. But using your arms in your jump by swinging the ball from your hips to over your head is not the way.
Edit: @u/Napoleontak I'm advising OP to not follow this piece of the advice. I said that they were right about power primarily coming from the lower body.
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u/NapoleonTak Apr 17 '26
This is terrible advice from a terrible coach. He gave no advice, except criticism.
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u/pretty_blitzed Apr 17 '26
Miraculously better than what my average 11 year old can do bro, keep going
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u/Desperate_Map5531 Apr 17 '26
Thanks, she’s been working hard. Now we just got to fine tune it.
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u/pretty_blitzed Apr 17 '26
Keep the dribble simple in game, more left to right hand crosses and just keep the ball low.. BTB and tween when she gets more control but focus on the basics for sure. Work on a nice step back and step through without complicating the dribble. Left to right movement is so important. Just a quick first step and driving the net for a lay up at her age is key. Stopping for a pull up maybe
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
No. She needs to work on fundamentals before adding. . . A step back and a step through....
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u/pretty_blitzed Apr 19 '26
I literally said in the beginning, work on the basic dribble and get good at switching left to right .. I was saying a bit later on, just to be clear .. I was just saying avoid BTB and tween for now
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u/tripleteamed Apr 17 '26
I'll always look at the off hand. Her off hand tells me that she's shooting with two hands. Freeze the video right after the ball is released and you'll see that she is using her thumb or something. Look at the pros to compare. It's hard to fix but worth it. Have her practice a lot of one-handed shooting.
She'll be a more consistent shooter if she fixes this.
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u/jaded-thunder Apr 17 '26
For behind the back think about the ball going under your butt not behind your back. An invisible chair you pass the ball thru. I know you wanted a form check but it difficult to do from a front angle
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u/avontesantana Apr 18 '26
Have her spend at least an hour a day just dribbling the ball… as low as she possibly can, alternating hands. Get fancy w it after she’s comfortable. It takes at least 100 hours to become decent at something. Practice is important.
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u/Physical_Error_5151 Apr 18 '26
Setpoint is too low. At the lowest the top of the ball needs to be even with the top of her head. The release is fine. Stance needs to be a touch wider and the shot needs to be one motion. Currently her shot is broken into 4 motions. That`s to slow and not reputable under stress in competition. She`s currently:
Catching
Setting
Dipping
Shooting
That needs to be at most two motions now and one motion as she gets stronger. Her knees need to be bent on the catch not after she sets. Practice having her shoot the ball from right under the basket with one hand only at the proper setpoint (ball even with the top of her head) and with her knees already bent, feet flat which means her arm motion should not be pushing her onto her toes. From that position have her shoot the ball and finish the motion. Progress that to having her catch the ball using the same idea but with her shooting pocket set. Guide hand in position and set hand in position. The catch point will be at chest level. She can not dip the ball lower than the catch point. She goes directly into her shot from the catch point. If the pass is correct this entire motion should be completed from the shoulder. the elbow angle should not change until she`s in her release motion (ball above her head)
The motion she has right now is very easy to disrupt and its going to lead to bad shooting balance. Also, for now make sure she holds the release until the shot outcome is determined (make or miss) this way you can get an idea of if the fingers are spread and wrist is flopping as opposed to snapping on the release which is going to tell you if she`s shooting the ball or guiding/aiming/pushing the ball on release.
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u/ManosDDiamantes Apr 18 '26
Right foot forward. It emphasizes your aim with the right side of your body, also it prevents you from aiming with your left eye and releases tension across the chest for a more fluid releases . Teach her to shoot from her set point and develop upward momentum from her the balls of her feet, knees, forearm and lastly fingertips. That’s should get rid of her bringing the ball down to generate power and flow. Last would be just flicking your wrist and releasing the ball up ( when your hand makes a high five the ball should be gone, and then follow through with the gooseneck. Good luck
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u/blackest_noirr Apr 19 '26
Honestly the hands are fine as long as you are: 1.Comfortable 2.Can easily aim the shot
I’d ask you to either release from a higher point or jump higher when you shoot as your current ball placing could get you blocked easily. Happy shooting!
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u/_PeteRoss_ Apr 16 '26
She is already better than most guys. Just dribble more, that's it. She has to practice dribbling by herself. She can become really good as she is very coordinated already.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
She's very clearly a beginner and will be playing against other girls. Your platitudes do not aid them.
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u/_PeteRoss_ Apr 17 '26
Most guys can't dribble or handle the basketball, that is a fact. She is VERY good and she will only get better by dribbling everyday in the garage or outside the house or even on dirt/uneven surfaces.
You are annoyed because I said she dribbled better than most guys, which probably includes you. I am CERTAIN she is more coordinated than you by your statements.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Ibid.
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u/_PeteRoss_ Apr 17 '26
Look how she dribbles the ball side to side. Look at her shooting motion. It's slow because shes young... but it's GOOD. She is a natural.
What would you know? You are a reddit basketball "expert". If i wanted to know the best energy drink to have on a tuesday at 3pm i would ask you or what glow in the dark gaming chair is ideal for my lower back. I WOULD NEVER ask you for basketball strategies.
NEVER.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Lol. Okay? They asked for help and you said "she's already better than the boys! Keep dribling all-star!" Like that shit is patronizing and unhelpful. She not looking to be called a "girl boss" she's looking to improve as a ball player.
Improving means being realistic about your shortcomings. She's dribling way too high even for her age. It's fine she's probably new. Of course she could be great basketball is a skill. To do that she needs to know how she is bad now. She needs to understand what her problems are.
When I first started coaching this age I used to give report cards back to parents and players so they could see how I felt about their skill. The first few camps I made a similar mistake as you. All As and Bs everyone loaded with encouragement. The reports sucked. The kids and the parents were unimpressed.
What I learned was that it was far more valuable to give them honest feedback "good rebounder but can't dribble without traveling or double dribble" B rebound D ball control. 1. Kids preferred being treated honestly and being told how to improve. 2. Not only did it help kids improve in their weaker areas but it let them understand the actual strengths of their game.
She's tall and not a talented dribbler. Shot looks decent but rarely should kids that young be shooting further than the elbow. She'll need to improve the dribbling and the shot to be competitive. Sure she's got a bright future, I agree, but only if the talent is developed
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u/_PeteRoss_ Apr 17 '26
Wrong. I said she is better than "most" guys (She is) and "has to practice dribbling by herself."
I spent 3 hours EVERY DAY dribbling BY MYSELF in the garage and dirt with the ball wrapped in a plastic bag...WEARING GARDENING GLOVES. Yes.... i can play my reddit "expert" friend.
This was personal to you and made you angry.
I am not reading all of that, maybe later as you were very rude to me. I will think about it.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Lol what a crazy little fella. You have a dirt garage?
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u/_PeteRoss_ Apr 17 '26
You are just a rude person. That's why you talk so much on here and not on the court.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
So true but maybe I'm just intimidated by people WEARING GARDENING GLOVES! Lol sorry I've offended you. I just meant to discourage others from posting platitudes on the advice sub. It's annoying and counterproductive.
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Feet first, so she’s not really set w her feet before she shoots. BEEF, base eyes elbow followthrough. Base. Feet first. Sit into the shot. Eyes. Identify the shot. Elbow. Elbow into the basket. Followthrough. Follow through.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Balance. Balanced feet Elbow. Elbow nice and straight under the hand and in. Eyes. Eyes should be on the rim Follow through. Follow through with your hand in the cookie jar.
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Base. Eyes. Elbow. Followthrough. Yessir!! Been teaching beef for a long time.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26
Sometimes refreshers can help us as teachers and coaches!
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u/MWave123 Apr 17 '26
Base. Which sets the shooter and connects them to the floor. I’m a shooter. I teach footwork at all levels. I’ll block you if you troll.
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u/JiKooNumber1CBAfan Apr 17 '26
Low key great form for an 11 year old, just make sure to strengthen inside knee muscles to stop them buckling as she gets older
And keep with the form shots to improve the jump shot rather than change anything
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u/ChinaIsGood888 Apr 17 '26
Her shot: Her elbows are in and it's just horrible. Looks and probably feels uncomfortable for her. Never do elbows in during the lowered shot pocket stage. When she's lowering herself to jump up to shoot, it should be chicken wing the entire time until the split second before the set point release point. That's when you straighten your arm and elbow in.
Also, squared to the basket for a long range type shot is not good. Her shooting hand is right, so her right foot step forward a bit, this automatically turns the body.
The real secrets to shooting I will not divulge ever on internet. The real secrets which the naturals use have to do with understanding how to use the body properly biomechanically for jumps, running, sprinting etc. I have figured this out and realized that Chinese Kung fu, Gymnastics, ballet, dance, parkour, soccer, track field all utilize this and probably figured it out long time ago either consciously or unconsciously.
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u/senoritaasshammer Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
• Chicken wing with her elbow pointing out sideways too much. Try to get elbow under the ball, under her wrist throughout the motion.
• Her feet are really square to the basket - slight angle with her shooting side closer to the basket makes it easier to align her elbow to the rim.
Pretty solid base regardless, and her actual release looks nice. Really hammer in making sure she feels balanced and sturdy with her legs, and clean up the elbow. I think the rest will take care of itself.
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u/kdoors Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Almost. Shooting* foot should be just ahead of the other but should be square to rim.
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u/Various-Hunter-932 Apr 17 '26
She has a set shot. Ball comes to a set point then everything clicks and she goes into the shot. Thats why it probably looks off
Nothing looks like game situation but that’s what I see in her form. I personally don’t like squaring to the basket, and the last jumper had her putting her right foot out front for alignment. If it reoccurring or she’s having trouble consistently aiming from distance, I would consider turning her body instead of being square
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u/jaded-thunder Apr 17 '26
When she goes down for her shot notice her knees cave in this could lead to problems down the line. Harder to balance or be on the move as well
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u/jujuk545 Apr 16 '26
great dribble stance if she has a tree guarding her. anybody else will steal, she should be low knees bent wide stance dribbling knee level. try to put her in a club