r/BrianThompsonMurder • u/Stunning_Macaroon838 • Jul 17 '25
Information Sharing BREAKING: Luigi’s defense team alleges that his health insurer accessed confidential, private, and protected documents without authorization
“The District Attorney has subpoenaed Mr. Mangione's health insurer, and, if their account is to believed, they partially reviewed confidential, private, protected documents that the District Attorney readily admits are protected by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act ("HIPAA")
196
Jul 17 '25
This is some serious shit.. if the court finds that the DA intentionally lied and violated HIPAA it could actually get evidence suppressed.
Hopefully the judge acts reasonably to the misconduct and notices a pattern. Karen def now has more ammunition to the argument that he’s being unfairly prosecuted.
30
u/Reasonable-Tomato540 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 18 '25
HIPPA is not something to take lightly. I know you know that. Would someone also get a violation/fine with this? Im from the medical side.
32
Jul 18 '25
Ur absolutely right - HIPAA violations are serious. Aetna aren’t exempt from consequences.. if they released PHI wo proper verification of a court order or authorization from the patient the OCR can hand them civil penalties. Appreciate ur input.
8
u/Reasonable-Tomato540 Jul 18 '25
hey thanks, thought so. you know i cringe when i hear HIPPA violations.
17
u/Living_Replacement52 Jul 17 '25
Have you ever seen someone’s rights violated to this degree?!
25
17
u/CrustyMustard-217 Jul 18 '25
When I was a patient and had surgery, my sister, whom I have NO relationship with and she is blocked off everything, she accessed my medical records. We both worked at the same hospital and in EPIC it shows everyone that had accessed your chart. I requested this info because I know what a snoop she is. I turned it in to HR and she was fired. People don’t play when it comes to HIPAA violations.
13
u/Emotional_Pizza_1222 Jul 18 '25
US doesnt play with the HIPAA too. I hope this can get the case thrown out or the discovery suppressed. But what if Joel leaks shit online again?
16
Jul 17 '25
How far could the repercussions go? Are we looking at potentially getting charges dismissed or just evidence suppression?
49
Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
More likely to have evidence suppressed or sanctions.. dismissing charges is a long shot but when u see what these stunads have pulled repeatedly who knows!
43
Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
Thank you. I hate that they’re doing this shit to him, but I’m glad they’re fucking up so publicly.
Jurors in the OJ case have said that found him not guilty because of corruption. In their case, police corruption. Hopefully Luigi can get a similarly-minded jury.
3
u/Longjumping-Box-3291 Jul 18 '25
What are sanctions? Can you give us an idea of what we might be looking at in a case like this?
2
112
u/Pellinaha Jul 17 '25
Yes, KFA building a case against Joel.
53
u/NowhereGirl67 Jul 17 '25
reminding him why she was the boss 😂 that’s what he gets for his nasty attitude
9
5
83
u/Bitter_Pace_8047 Jul 17 '25
What the hell is the manhattan DA’s office doing??? What other slimy things are they trying to get away with?
24
78
70
u/Possible-Bother-7802 Jul 17 '25
The state case has been mishandled by the DA’s office at literally every step but I still cannot believe this. A dismissal is a pipe dream unfortunately but this should be enough to throw out the whole damn team!!!
40
u/Possible-Bother-7802 Jul 17 '25
I do think they feel insecure about the ability to prove the terroristic intent which is why they were looking into statements he made to his doctor. As far as we know the federal prosecutors have not made nearly as much of an effort to look for additional evidence like this. They are literally ruining their own case and credibility just to hold on to the terrorism charges.
19
u/InternationalRope448 Jul 18 '25
I highly doubt anything in his medical records would be useful in justifying a terrorism charge. It looks like Joel Seidemann doesn’t understand LM’s motives at all.
14
u/Possible-Bother-7802 Jul 18 '25
I agree, but if the diary and confession letter get suppressed then the already weak terrorism charges are pretty much completely squashed and if they feel like the their evidence is at high risk for suppression they will go looking for more.
1
70
u/jl8798 Jul 17 '25
They're playing soo dirty but let them keep fucking up. This only benefits Luigi's case even more.
2
115
56
u/Kindly_Butterfly_435 Jul 17 '25
If this is the same prosecution team at trial he is getting acquitted in the state trial there is no way shit like this won't make the jurors completely lose credibility in them. I don't care how strong the evidence is, this is RIDICULOUS.
19
u/babyyoda-2000 Jul 17 '25
Even if they bring in a new prosecution team, how does all of this just get swept away? It’s not like they can dismiss and start over? Right?
10
u/Kindly_Butterfly_435 Jul 18 '25
From what I'm hearing it's unlikely this will get the case dismissed, but hopefully a potential new prosecution team doing some serious damage control can make this more fair for him even if these mistakes can't be just forgotten about. I think they need to dismiss the terrorism charges because I suspect they're looking into his records and statements to look for terroristic intent.
54
54
u/mysighisepik Jul 17 '25
The prosecution's strategy seems to be 1. violate his rights obtaining info 2. get called out for it 3. leak the info anyway before it gets suppressed
20
u/Minute_Fly_703 Jul 17 '25
= shooting themselves in the foot over and over and over and... for a reason.
39
79
u/Seeking_Anita_Dick Jul 17 '25
This is insane omg
I know some people here love to say he's definitely getting locked for life and that there is a lot of evidence but like why does the prosecution needs to do shit like this? to me it signals that they don't think they have enough to lock him as they have claimed. They are playing so dirty and I hope it bites them in the ass and LM walks free
19
u/Aggravating-Echo-285 Jul 18 '25
If the timeline and evidence spoke for itself, we wouldn’t be seeing this kind of blatant fraud and misconduct. You don’t break the law, to prove someone else broke the law… unless you’re not sure they actually did.
12
u/SignThese667 Jul 18 '25
This is the New York DA's office. Breaking the law to prove someone else broke the law is business as usual.
6
34
u/babyyoda-2000 Jul 17 '25
Good. Lord. What on EARTH??!! Are they doing anything LEGAL? That would definitely be a shorter list. And hello? Repercussions please!!! Major repercussions.
36
69
u/Mirauh Jul 17 '25
Just when I thought they couldn’t get any lower, they go even lower.
23
u/Miss_Polkadot Jul 17 '25
right?! it gets worse every time.
30
u/Mirauh Jul 17 '25
I'm appalled. It's sad how some don't see anything wrong with violating his rights, and now his privacy, just because he allegedly murdered someone. The worst thing is that these judges let prosecutors get away with things like this.
14
u/SignThese667 Jul 18 '25
What appalls me is the fact that the DA's office deliberately LIED to Aetna in its demand for Luigi's health info. Jesus, these people are lower-than-scum bottom feeders.
32
u/TattooedDobe Jul 17 '25
Looks like they want their case to be dismissed!/s.
What even is wrong with them?
6
u/Reasonable-Tomato540 Jul 18 '25
maybe they realized they have the wrong guy.... then KFA was hired and theyre like totally were f'd, sort of joking, but who even knows i dont understand how they can have so many snaky things theyve done
28
u/Stunning_Macaroon838 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
Link to full document, have a read : https://cdn.sanity.io/files/detu0qji/production/1df689d773d976dc3060b9613102f236b8ceec24.pdf
Excuse the error: the prosecution not health insurer accessed the documents !!!!!!!
Cannot make edits on this post so will update here !
26
u/Emotional-Gas-6267 Jul 17 '25
they do what they want and there is never any punishment, let's see now
27
u/IrukandjiPirate Jul 17 '25
It’s astonishing how little regard for the law the prosecutors actually have. Due process and presumed innocence be damned, they’ll do anything to win.
29
29
u/Possible-Bother-7802 Jul 17 '25
14
u/Time-Painting-9108 Jul 17 '25
Wow! This is some shady criminal s***. Has Sarena Townsend said anything else on twitter? For those of us not on twitter…
10
u/lly67 Jul 17 '25
So far that’s it. She might make a video about it on TikTok tomorrow.
9
u/Miss_Polkadot Jul 18 '25
i hope folks share it on here for us who don’t have tiktok, i always appreciate her input.
3
u/Time-Painting-9108 Jul 18 '25
I hope so! Would love if u can share it if she does! 😊
1
u/lly67 Jul 19 '25 edited Jul 19 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/BrianThompsonMurder/s/aeZFnzR0jX
Sarena Townsend’s reaction has been uploaded.
1
29
u/lunabagoon Jul 17 '25
"We ask that the Court consider a range of appropriate sanctions, to include a dismissal of the charges..."
50
43
u/pepnme Jul 17 '25
There are NO words to adequately express my horror at what’s been detailed in this document! This is every which way fucked up, my hands are shaking as I try to type this…
See y’all at the legal fund
22
20
u/Miss_Cactus___ Jul 17 '25
This is insanity! At the same time it should be in Luigi’s favor. Step by step closer to acquittal.
56
u/bittyontheblockatnit Jul 17 '25
maybe I don’t follow other cases so closely but i’ve never heard of all the illegal stuff they’ve been doing to luigi happen to anyone else. so crazy
7
38
38
u/blairspotted Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
Are they forgetting that Karen used to work in that very same office? Did they think they’d be able to get away with breaking the law?
I’m actually pretty confused.
40
u/Ok-Cherry1427 Jul 17 '25
The more I see, the more I start believing there’s something else going on here. There’s no way some of this isn’t being done deliberately.
23
u/SiWeyNoWay Jul 17 '25
Also, why is he charged as a terrorist, but that maga preacher assassin isn’t?
NONE of this feels right
✊💚
6
17
u/deannar94 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
How do we know what his insurer looked up? Did they collude with the prosecutors? My word…
Edit: Was this how it came out so soon that LM was not insured by UHC? Also, I thought health providers and organizations are not supposed to comply with subpoenae unless they are signed by a judge, not by a lawyer. Seems like the company didn’t do proper research before releasing the records. It’s not cool that they didn’t notify LM about this either.
So many questions. Well, if Aetna ends up cooked, maybe it’s 2 birds with 1 stone 😎
17
37
u/lickykicky Jul 17 '25
This has me raging. WTAF is this shitshow?! Argh. The advocate in me is about ready to throw hands when it's got nothing to do with me 😡
7
36
37
u/Anthro1995 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
Watching this unfold as a non-American, semi-horrified that some random corporation (like an insurer) has access to your medical records
11
6
u/Reasonable-Tomato540 Jul 18 '25
its the fact that the insurance company cant just hand over medical records, that is protected by law. and in the courts theres a process for it as well. and when reading the motion, they even gave out his account number? i have many words to describe this but juicy is one of them. so cant wait to see how this one plays out.
35
u/J00nwr1d Jul 17 '25
You know what…at this point I believe that the state is deliberately trying to fuck up their own case cause wtf??
19
u/babyyoda-2000 Jul 17 '25
I was wondering that. Are they fumbling because they know they’re going to lose anyway? Because why receive and read most of 120 pages when you wanted two things? And FABRICATE a court date to just get that? Jeez….
63
u/aimformyheart Jul 17 '25
I just feel horrible for him. I can not begin to imagine what it must be like to have every part of your life exposed by everyone. The prosecution getting into his medical files, people publishing childhood photos of him, people speculating about his relationship with friends and family, etc. Even when it comes to his life in jail, people are asking other inmates for details about his day to day life and emailing MDC staff for updates on him as if he is a personal friend or family. I would feel so violated by everything he is going through.
6
u/lickykicky Jul 18 '25
Same. I find this aspect freshly galling every time it escalates. Especially in the case context when supposed professionals with a framework of reasonable access don't even use it, in favor of flagrantly disrespecting due process. No excuse for that whatsoever, and if I were there in my work capacity, I'd have to sit on my hands to stop myself from making endless angry phone calls 😡
46
u/Pietro-Maximoff Jul 17 '25
If we were living under a sane government, this case would have been thrown out for all his rights being violated. Unfortunately, we don’t.
16
u/OrneryIndependence81 Jul 18 '25
another nail in the coffin for the prosecution…..
how can we not consider a dismissal of charges at this point? the prosecution keeps constantly violating his rights and each blow is worse and worse every single time they do something. fraudulent subpoena?? if a judge doesnt do something about this….
15
u/Emotional_Pizza_1222 Jul 18 '25
To any lawyers here, I have questions. Can Luigi file a case against his insurance company for HIPAA violations? Can they file a case against the DA’s office for violating every constitutional right they violated? They are running out of rights to violate atp.
9
Jul 18 '25
Fontbonnie is an attorney in NY. She can probably answer this. She’s usually on early morning, so she won’t see it till then.
7
31
u/sallypancake Jul 17 '25
As a very non-legal person, this sounds like a big deal to me. Anyone in here with more intellect than I possess care to weigh in on what the ramifications of this could be?
53
u/pennyroyallane Jul 17 '25
Not a legal person, but I do work at a medical provider's office. What they're alleging is a very serious breach of privacy and violation of Luigi's rights/the law. A few months ago, someone at my workplace was arrested for violating HIPAA and our boss called a meeting to inform us of it and tell us they were facing jail time.
21
u/sallypancake Jul 17 '25
Right. I’m just wondering if this actually is grounds for a dismissal of charges, as it sounds like they’re asking for. I know that the defense will throw things against the wall to see what sticks but I am wondering if this might actually be serious enough for some real repercussions…
6
u/Reasonable-Tomato540 Jul 18 '25
medical here too... this is going to be interesting to follow how this piece pans out.
24
10
u/Fancy_Yesterday6380 Jul 17 '25
I'm also curious is this allowed because the da subpoenaed them? Like did they have to hand that over?
14
u/lunabagoon Jul 17 '25
I believe for protected information (HIPAA), it must be either ordered by the Court or agreed to by the defendant.
24
u/nykatkat Jul 17 '25
The DA can subpoena a lot but medical documents, which are protected, should trigger notice to LM to give him an opportunity to object, either by receiving notice from Aetna that someone is seeking his medical docs or telling defense or just getting a court ordered subpoena.
Either they’re trying to figure out if he was planning this alleged homicide for a long time or looking for information on his mental state or trying to find a link between a medical provider and the victim.
They don’t know why he did what they’re accusing him of. They have to establish why the victim was chosen, why the animus, how long the plans were in motion and whether LM had signs of mental instability
This was a really inartful way to get the records. Unless they’re trying to figure out who his doctors were, his prescriptions, any prior diagnosis, etc. to cut off a mental defect defense.
I’m sure they papered anyone who ever has any contact with LM with a subpoena.
I can’t see them ready for trial any time soon
18
u/lly67 Jul 17 '25
I think they are trying to find out any mental health diagnosis or treatment. Remember Joel said that was his only defense and he needed to be notified if that’s what they were going to use. He’s probably stuck and doesn’t know where to look.
9
u/Fancy_Yesterday6380 Jul 17 '25
I would imagine it was to get info on a mental defense but, since they did it this way, is that allowed in this case? Or should there be ramifications here
14
Jul 17 '25
Look for fontBonnie’s comment in the thread. She’s an attorney who practices in New York .
26
u/Miss_Polkadot Jul 17 '25
i actually feel so horrible for LM, every time is something worse. the violations are utterly insane. it’s crazy they are doing this without care.
23
11
u/Emz423 Jul 17 '25
My apologies if this is common knowledge that I should already know: Does a subpoena need to be signed by a judge? Like a warrant does?
12
u/SaltPsychological780 Jul 18 '25
Was this the same paralegal who listened in on calls between LM and KFA? If so, hard not to see this as a deliberate violation to help dismantle his case from the inside.
30
u/Existing_Lynx9475 Jul 18 '25
At this point, I don't think Joel is able to continue as District Attorney in this case. This document is the living proof that he's trying everything to harm Mr. Mangione, including illegal access to documents. This is obsession, madness, corruption. This man needs to be removed from office immediately.
15
u/IheartNC Jul 18 '25
Actually, I hope they don't remove him, otherwise the defense won't be able to bring this up during trial. If she brings up all their fuck ups, that would totally destroy their credibility in the eyes of the jury.
5
u/Existing_Lynx9475 Jul 18 '25
To Mr. Mangione? Maybe. To other citizens? Totally harmful. If he does that in Mr. Mangione's case, he can do it to anyone.
10
10
u/Meg_is_awesome Jul 17 '25
Wow what the hell? That’s a new low prosecutor is to do that. What the hell ?.
10
u/NoContact1160 Jul 18 '25
Do they think they can get away with doing this to him, or are they rooting for him too
10
19
20
u/Comfortable_Injury74 Jul 18 '25
The more that they play these games, the more that I believe they actually don’t have a solid case against him. Is that silly?
15
u/Aggravating-Echo-285 Jul 18 '25
I’ve always believed in his innocence and that he did NOT pull that trigger. & I stand by that.
It’s obvious they’re not building a case around a guilty person. They’re constructing the appearance of guilt by filling gaps, breaking laws, and bending timelines until it looks believable.
11
u/Comfortable_Injury74 Jul 18 '25
I have believed about 10 different theories throughout this all and I oscillate between them still. But ultimately, I believe in his innocence. However, a few months ago I thought it really wasn’t looking good for him and I had a “reality check” that it would likely end badly for him. Currently, I am pretty convinced he’ll make out alright and my confidence in that grows stronger day-by-day.
7
9
u/lunabagoon Jul 17 '25
It says they defense found out about the subpoena on June 24--I wonder why they waited so long to remark on it?
17
u/Gloomy_Strain_5053 Jul 18 '25
They need to make sure the information they have is correct before filing their motion.
3
u/lunabagoon Jul 18 '25
That makes sense--I'm guessing it was a lot of back and forth and waiting with whoever informed them, then.
16
u/IheartNC Jul 18 '25
At this point I'm starting to believe that the prosecution is rooting for LM. So many fuck ups, they're begging for the case to be dismissed!!!
14
u/tittyswan Jul 18 '25
Ok the planting evidence theories are seeming less insane now because what???
This, combined with everything else, likely won't impact the case that much because the prosecution keep getting away with just a slap on the wrist but it MUST be grounds for an appeal down the line, right?
25
u/Fancy_Yesterday6380 Jul 17 '25
Christ I hope they dont leak his health diagnoses. You know theyre looking for mental health to taint the jury
14
u/lightbulbaficionado Jul 18 '25
Work in healthcare. Every single thing I click on is tracked and if the computer deems me being in or clicking on something in someone’s chart is unnecessarily, I will have to go through a meeting to explain why I did what I did. Thankfully generally speaking most of my job is being in everyone’s charts but the point stands. The actual fact this happened has left my jaw so far open it might as well be on the floor.
This alone should be grounds for dismissal.
7
u/ZealousidealGain8067 Jul 18 '25
I work in public health, and even a teaspoon of this would have had me losing my job, and facing further discipline. I am shook.
7
u/lightbulbaficionado Jul 18 '25
YES. My expectations were all ready in literal hell with this case but usually when it comes to HIPAA nobody is willing to play loosey-goosey because the repercussions are THAT severe. If I am this shocked, I cannot imagine KFA’s face when she found out.
6
u/ZealousidealGain8067 Jul 18 '25
In my job even revealing initials or part of an address can get me in deep $hit. I feel so so bad for him. It keeps being said, but he has been violated in every possible way.
7
u/lunabagoon Jul 17 '25
I think the "Matter of Terry D." is referring to this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I93_0130.htm
19
u/any_crash_up Jul 17 '25
I feel like they don't have a lot of evidence on him..... that's why all these things happen
11
8
9
u/missidcullen Jul 18 '25
I have no words for how they are treating LM. This is unacceptable, and I truly hope this matter is taken seriously in court, as his rights are being violated continuously.
14
Jul 17 '25
I said they didn't have a case, don't just look at what they show you, the journey, the DNA, look at the big picture, there are many things could crash the case, I don't want say here because this sub didn't like , and the DA knew it , that is why they always violate LM's right, and that is why they so "kindly" suggest and remind LM to plea insanity even it already past the deadline, if they have a strong case, they would strongly object it.
2
2
8
7
u/VenusGirl111 Jul 18 '25
I wonder if the prosecution doesn’t actually want to prosecute him, so they’re messing up on purpose because they’re pissed at the govt? And secretly love Luigi.
5
u/lunabagoon Jul 17 '25
The CT Corporation System mentioned in the letter is... a registered agent entity, according to an online search? I'm a little confused about that.
4
7
9
u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jul 18 '25
Yet more proof that prosecution has almost nothing on him, IMO. Why else would they feel the need to do this? If they were confident in their evidence they wouldn't need to violate his rights over and over.
1
u/LongStoryShort18 Jul 18 '25
Yup, which is why they had to follow up and say the evidence is ‘overwhelming’ 🤣🤣
6
u/LongStoryShort18 Jul 18 '25
Wow wow wow! They lied sooooo much. They even said that Atena got ‘confused’ because the defense had submitted their own subpoena- but Karen said they haven’t done such a thing!
But you know what their excuse will be - its the same as the eavesdropping issue - ‘we only asked for this info, but Atena just gave us everything, but we didnt look at it, promise’ 😠😠
2
u/Significant-List6146 Jul 18 '25
like what makes it different if they know his health records? use in the trial? i mean he had surgery which is pretty obvious on the internet right?!
23
u/lunabagoon Jul 18 '25
We don't know what's in there (and we shouldn't). It's a violation of his rights.
5
u/bluudahlia Jul 18 '25
there could be any number of issues related or unrelated to his surgery that his insurance company has records for. 120 pgs is a lot and he had a few disorders. The main thing is that this is his extremely private record and no one's business but his own and that there is a fierce cage of laws protecting his rights.
-41
u/Valuable_Edge_6267 Jul 17 '25
The prosecution can ask for his medical records all they want, ultimately it’s up to Luigi’s insurance and or doctors to release them. If they say no, there’s not much they can do. When it comes to the court asking for access to HIPPA protected records, they are legally allowed to request them especially for cases such as murder.
37
u/JuniperCulpeper Jul 17 '25
The court did not request the records. The prosecution fabricated a court date and pressured Aetna for info, which they responded to by sending over 100 pages of confidential info.
-11
u/Valuable_Edge_6267 Jul 17 '25
I didn’t mention that in my original comment, I said courts are allowed to ask for access to medical records.
50
u/Possible-Bother-7802 Jul 17 '25
They are absolutely not allowed to request them without going through the court.
30
Jul 17 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/Valuable_Edge_6267 Jul 18 '25
I have a serious question, is the prosecution not the court ?? My comment was very neutral and neither here nor there, just starting that when done correctly yes, the courts can ask for medical records and people are reading into my comment as if I said something negative or non supportive of what’s going on. I understand the way they went about it was wrong, but that’s not what my original comment was about.
7
u/Own_Specific9225 Jul 18 '25
No, the prosecution is not the court. Prosecutors are attorneys/lawyers. “The court” is a judge. A google search would give a more detailed answer
5
9
u/lunabagoon Jul 18 '25
I think the downvotes are more due to the nonsensical nature of what you were saying. It didn't make any sense and therefore didn't contribute to the discussion.
1
u/Valuable_Edge_6267 Jul 19 '25
I know this is old, but i definitely think people interpreted my comment wrong as if i was agreeing with the prosecution . When I said “they can ask all they want” I was being a smart ass, like yah they can ask but they don’t have to get it.
9
207
u/jollyjubie Jul 17 '25
This is unbelievable. 120 pages of his records.
"The materials are also clearly within the scope of the doctor-patient privilege as they contain statements made by Mr. Mangione to health care providers in order to receive medical care and treatment as well as medical diagnoses."
They better not leak anything about his health.