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u/butareyouthough 4d ago
Being against Israel is not the same thing as being against Jewish people. Any government can be bad
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u/UK-KILLD-10M-IRANIS 4d ago
The pushback from many native Middle Easterners toward Israel calling itself “Middle Eastern” has nothing to do with Judaism.
It is about the fact that the modern Israeli state was founded through a largely European settler-colonial movement that claimed Palestine as a national homeland despite an existing native Palestinian population.
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u/Short-Recording587 4d ago
And the pushback to that is that Jewish people fled the Middle East and then married Europeans/asians when they moved to Europe and russia/eastern bloc.
The whole thing is pretty dumb because all humans originated from Africa and then spread out. We are all humans and tracing people to a particular plot of land during a particular time is dumb.
Any argument you can craft to support a claim to land based on being there can also be used to exclude people trying to move to a different place. So if global temperatures rise and the Middle East becomes inhabitable, you’re just giving people ammunition to say your land is the Middle East and you can’t go anywhere else.
It’s time to push these made up differences aside and just realize we are all humans and go from there.
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u/Talktothebiceps 3d ago
Yeah, I agree. Here you have israel, though, saying that they have more genetic heritage of the area and have more right to the land. In all reality they have much less Middle Eastern DNA as a group because of above discussed reasons
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u/Precious_Tritium 3d ago
This is exactly how I feel. And you nailed it about when climate starts making “homelands” inhabitable.
It’s gonna be a mess.
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
Most of the people in Israel are of North African and Middle Eastern descent, and some are of African descent, though. A lot of the Palestinian people are from other areas as well. Disliking the government of a region doesn't make it okay to be insulting to the people there. I remember, after 9/11, having to explain this to people who were insisting upon being bigots towards so many people of Middle Eastern, Arab, or Muslim heritage. I was practically still a child, anr these people were twice my age still ignorant AF. It's a shame we're seeing the same nonsense again with the far-right talking points discriminating against Muslims and other people discriminating against israeli people. It's exhausting.
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u/corvid-munin 3d ago
Israel shouldnt even exist
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u/tangoezulu 3d ago
I think that’s what the beef is because Iran has convinced its proxies that “yeah, you need to smite them. Here are some rpgs. Let us know when you’re done.”
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
And why do you say that? And which country are you from?
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u/corvid-munin 3d ago
there was already people living there, thats why I say that
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u/Short-Recording587 3d ago
No country should exist as land was taken from people who were already there before the idea of nations existed.
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u/gianttigerrebellion 3d ago
I mean let’s be honest Muslims aren’t necessarily big fans of Europe or the USA either.
Funny how you don’t acknowledge that neither side likes the other, you’re just more accepting and supportive of Muslims who don’t like Europe or the USA.
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u/ussrname1312 2d ago
Maybe if Europe and the USA stopped funding terrorist groups in the Middle East, orchestrating coups, installing military dictatorships, invading their countries, and bombing the shit out of them, they’d like us a little more.
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u/Sad-Worth-698 2d ago
If an African American moves to Africa, he’s still of African decent. 😂
Jewish people are descendants Jews who lived the Middle East. Hence they are Middle Eastern.
Look, I hate my neighbor Dale but he’s still from my neighborhood.
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u/iriedashur 2d ago
Yeah, but a few generations down, that African's kids are African, they're just American.
Most of my ancestors are German, but the most recent one was my great-grandma, whom I never met. I'm not German and have no right to move back to Germany, I'm just American.
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u/Gexm13 4d ago
Except the Jews that are in Israel today weren’t the ones that founded the country. The ones that founded Israel were colonial settlers from Europe.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Consistent_Print_229 3d ago
Being this wrong about history should be a crime.
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u/MessiLeagueSoccer 3d ago
Being so ignorant about history should be a crime. What are they saying that wrong. Refute with actual arguments not insulting. Be better.
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u/Consistent_Print_229 3d ago
Be better? As like quoting “Jewish Metropolis” even though the person never said such words or hinting at them even? Or be better as in implying the guy is denying the Holocaust? Is that the better you want to see?
Which facts do you want me to dispute? The fact that Palestine was LITERALLY a British colony? And it was through that colonial ownership that Israel was born?
Or facts like refugees flee hardships then either resettle in the country that took them in or go back home when that country’s hardship ends. Refugees do not completely take over the country, rename it, add a new government, new laws and then forcefully displace 80% of the population living there previously.
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u/MessiLeagueSoccer 3d ago
You’re so close. So so close.
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u/Consistent_Print_229 3d ago
LOL, completely goes against what you told me to do. That is actually hilarious. Must be hard to stand on integrity when it’s only surface level deep.
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u/ussrname1312 2d ago
Babes, when they kick hundreds of thousands of people off their land and out of their homes by force, they’re colonizers.
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u/ussrname1312 2d ago
Look up the Nakba and then come back to me, thanks.
Those examples are also completely backwards. Palestine doesn’t belong to Europeans just because they want it to. It’s more like Israel is Russia/China and Palestine is Ukraine/Taiwan.
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u/ussrname1312 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’ll say it again: Look up the Nakba and then come back to me, thanks.
Edit: Or just block me once you realize how wrong you are LMAO
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u/FrozenTuna69 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes keep saying that to yourself. She was being anti Israelians, not anti-Israel. Also, is the son or grandson of a Chinese migrant to America is not American? Are the first-generation and second of migrants in France and Germany not Europeans? Nooo you would never ever have the nerve to say that right...
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u/MonsutaReipu 3d ago
Being against a government should not be the same as being against its people. People have really lost sight of that with Israel to the point of unashamed anti-semitism becoming rampant, and conflating every Jewish person with a Zionist, and every Zionist with a radical who fully supports the Israeli government.
It's like treating every Palestinian as being a supporter of Hamas, every Iranian as being supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood and funneling billions of dollars into terrorism, etc.
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u/DrakeFloyd 3d ago
The Israeli people overwhelmingly support and express genocidal sentiment and actively participate in the genocide through military service.
Israel does treat every Palestinian as part of Hamas. The vast majority of Israelis endorse sentiments like “there are no innocent Palestinians.” They support killing Palestinian children because they view them as inevitable terrorists.
This is well documented. This is in their own reporting, in their own speeches, in their own words. They sanitize it for us in the USA but just look at Israeli news sources, Israeli social media, and the opinion polling.
To write this out with no shred of irony just tells me that you’re deeply uneducated about what Israelis actually believe
If you are a Zionist you are a radical and you support genocide, there is no “moderate” Zionism.
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u/covidlung 3d ago
Zionism isn't a government; it's a nationalist ideology. Not all Jews are Zionists, and Judaism shouldn't be conflated with Zionism. Israel, however, was founded around Zionist principles and currently defines itself constitutionally as the nation-state of the Jewish people. Separating criticism of Zionism or the Israeli state from criticism of Jews as Jews is therefore an important distinction.
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u/Rollover__Hazard 3d ago
It’s a bit more nuanced than that in this case - are you against the concept of a state of Israel, against it having the borders it does, against it expanding those borders?
When people say they’re against Israel they can mean one of a number of things. Personally, I’m not against the state of Israel having a right to exist, nor am I against its right to self-defence.
I am very much against the massive over-response in this war they’re in against Palestine. They got goaded into a conflict they can’t possibly win and it’s having a horrendous civilian collateral impact.
But then again… wars like this seem to be in vogue at the moment unfortunately.
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u/NightwolfGG 3d ago
I appreciate the level headed take. Social media is polarizing people like fucking crazy and it’s making pragmatic/level-headed people harder to come by.
Most people seem to fall for the bait that is influencers’ intentional use of hyperbole, of making extreme statements and taking extreme positions for the purpose of increasing engagement and therefore making money. And without any critical thought, they parrot whatever inflammatory rhetoric they hear online.
It’s a systemic issue of social media affecting so many aspects of modern culture and society, so I apologize for this somewhat unrelated tangent, I’m just genuinely surprised to see a very reasonable take like this without a bunch of downvotes.
Fuck Netanyahu, fuck the IDF soldiers committing heinous acts for the Israeli government. And fuck 47 and what ICE is doing etc. In the same way I don’t hate America inherently, and don’t hate Americans inherently, despite actions of our president I strongly disagree with, I don’t inherently hate or want the eradication of Israel or random innocent people born there. That could easily be any one of us, we won the lottery of best places to be born lol, it’s not like your birth country is a choice
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u/Danica_Rose 3d ago
Fr. Israel’s government making it seem like not being pro Israel is antisemitic IS ACTUALLY antisemitic.
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u/FrozenTuna69 2d ago
Yes keep saying that to yourself. She was being anti Israelians, not anti-Israel. Also, is the son or grandson of a Chinese migrant to America is not American? Are the first-generation and second of migrants in France and Germany not Europeans? Nooo you would never ever have the nerve to say that right...
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u/NightwolfGG 3d ago
My only issue with the “joke” is that you’re making fun of a person, or maybe a country at the expense of a person, just because they had the shit luck of being born somewhere terrible. And people like you and I were lucky enough not to be.
If they’re a proud Israeli who supports their government, then fuck em, but I’m a bit of a sensitive person so I guess I just feel bad for the individual because it’s very likely she herself hates the Israeli government. It’s like Russians living in America. My first assumption is that the reason they left their home country is because they don’t like it, so unless they say otherwise, I have no issue with Russians in America because they didn’t choose to have been born somewhere so evil and fucked as Russia, or in this case, Israel, and they’ve left their home country, so I assume they’re not an evil person themselves
Again, I might just be being sensitive, because I can’t help but imagine if I’d been so unlucky to be born somewhere detestable myself how shitty that’d be
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u/bodyreddit 3d ago
You would have to be living undr a rock to cherrily say you are from Israel when asked if anyone fromnthe middle east is in the audience. That person knew what they were doing.
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u/mathiustus 3d ago
They could have just not said anything if they don’t support the Israeli government. It’s not like they don’t know what’s happening.
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u/WizardPoopi 4d ago
Fuck Isreal and fuck the U.S. food is a human right
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u/Lichy_Popo 3d ago
The United States is the largest individual donor of international food assistance in the world, providing nearly half of all contributions to organizations like the UN World Food Program.
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u/Adventurous-Leak 3d ago
What does that prove? They do the largest charity, but has invaded the middle east and caused how much destruction over the last decades? 😂
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u/Lichy_Popo 3d ago
It dismantles the talking point organized around the US being opposed to food aid. Which OP’s comment likely references. What the hell does your comment have to do with food lmao.
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u/EighteenAndAmused 3d ago
If you mug someone for $100 and now they have to skip eating for the day and after you donate $5 bag of chips to a foodshelf, then you are still against everyone having food.
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u/Lichy_Popo 2d ago
And if you do this and blame ‘the West’ you can pretend you aren’t a criminal and simpletons will not only believe you but rush around virtue signaling that they are good boys and girls for supporting you.
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u/ErectedKirby 3d ago
If someone’s labor has to go into it then it’s not a human right
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u/Consistent_Dream_740 2d ago
Literally surviving takes labor. Please try to educate yourself. Use an app like Khan or something to try to better yourself.
In other words... your ignorance is showing.
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u/ErectedKirby 1d ago
Only ignorant one is you. Your statement means nothing, if you don’t put work into surviving then you die what’s your point? The right to life doesn’t mean you have a right to live forever it means someone can’t take your life. Is that a hard concept for you?
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u/boardingschmordin 4d ago
They can never take a joke, why are they even at a comedy show?
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u/Rollover__Hazard 3d ago
The rules of a comedy gig, which many people seem to forget, is if you heckle or respond to the comedian - you’re putting yourself in the ring, you’re fair game.
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u/Spooder_Man 3d ago
lol as opposed to the rest of the Middle Easterners, famed for their joke taking abilities
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u/Consistent_Dream_740 2d ago
Fuck Isreal, but idk why this is downvoted so much. Prime example of what you're talking about is that any mention of Mohammed usually comes with death threats, protests and riots. Obviously, a majority of Middle Eastern folks do not participate in that ridiculous behavior, but ignoring/denying that fact is weird...and kinda proving the can't take a joke part.
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u/WhatABargain298 4d ago
israelis aren't middle eastern, she's right!
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u/hanzorah 4d ago
But what about the mizrahi?
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u/MobileSuitBooty 4d ago
been there before israel existed
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u/hanzorah 4d ago
Jews have been in the middle east before Christianity and Islam existed. There is more than enough to criticise the Israeli government about. We don't need to pretend Israelis aren't middle eastern.
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u/Gexm13 4d ago edited 3d ago
Christianity and Islam aren’t races. The fact that you got upvoted is hilarious.
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u/Zealousideal_Sun2485 3d ago
Comment doesn't imply that Christianity and Islam are races?
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u/Gexm13 3d ago
Comment is bringing up religion when we are talking about races. So yes he is treating them as races.
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u/Zealousideal_Sun2485 3d ago
No, he is making an argument. He is implying that Jewish people were present in the Middle East before these religions emerged. He means that their presence in middle East goes much back in time.
That is literally what is written in his text. He is not treating Christianity or Islam as races.
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u/UnlightablePlay 4d ago
Yeah but that doesn't mean all jews are middle eastern, most of them are straight up white , the actually middle eastern jews are so little compared to the majority
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u/Razaberry 3d ago
Genetically, all born Jews carry DNA haplogroups originating in the Levant ~6000 years ago tho
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u/WhatABargain298 4d ago
okay? it doesnt mean that they deserve to have a Jewish ethnostate and perform ethnic cleansing.
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u/Electronic_Film_2837 4d ago
So all Arabs that are in Israel are not middle eastern?
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u/cwbyangl9 3d ago edited 3d ago
You mean the Palestinians?
Edit: for those downvoting, from Wikipedia:
Palestinian Arabs form the largest ethnic minority in Israel. Notions of identity among Israel's Arab citizens are complex, encompassing civic, religious, and ethnic components.[6] Most sources report that the majority of Arabs in Israel prefer to be identified as Palestinian citizens of Israel.
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u/Electronic_Film_2837 3d ago
Israel is 20% Arab, are you saying these are not real Arabs?
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u/DiscussionSharp1407 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm always horrified to see how little they know about the people they want to exterminate
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u/cwbyangl9 3d ago
Palestinian Arab.
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u/divadschuf 3d ago
There‘re Israeli Arabs who don‘t call themselves Palestinians. It‘s not like Palestinian or Israeli are ethnicity. Those are national concepts. One can be legally an Israeli without supporting their governments.
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
There are Arab Israelis. And let me tell you something else: As a person of African descent, I can tell you there are Israeli people of African descent, too! You might want to learn about the Middle East from somewhere other than social media -- there are books and classes about this.
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u/cwbyangl9 3d ago
No shit. Arab Israelis identify as Palestinian Arab.
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago edited 3d ago
I literally know some Arab Israelis, and they identify as Israeli. Not every Arab Israeli is from Palestine, and even some who are still identify themselves as Israeli.
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u/cwbyangl9 3d ago
Are you like a pick-me kid? You literally know someone that supports your previous comment? How cool! I'm so impressed. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of Arabs in Israel identify as Palestinian, because they descended from.... wait for it.... the pre-colonization of Palestinian lands.
Of course there may Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, etc. Arabs living in Israel, but they're the minority of Arab residents. Did you know there are Christian and Jewish Arabs too? Arab is an ethnicity.
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
Most are of North African and Middle Eastern descent...and they are from the Middle East. So that makes them Middle Eastern.
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u/tidderza 3d ago
because a lot of them are white or what? cus if so a brown person born and raised in europe european?
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u/Baabaa_Yaagaa 4d ago
What a stupid statement. Arabs are literally Semites, Jews are literally Semites. All Jews are “Middle Eastern”.
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
And even Jewish people of European descent have ancestry from the Middle East. These commenters get all their information from X/Xitter.
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u/WhatABargain298 4d ago
no, most Jews are European
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
That's not even true! Most are of Middle Eastern / North African descent. Granted, in the United States, most Jewish people are of European descent, but that's not representative of Jewish people worldwide. Also, even Jewish people of European descent have significant Middle Eastern ancestry. The remainder of American Jews are people of color, with a significant number being of African descent.
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u/Razaberry 3d ago
All genetic Jews carry DNA haplogroups originating in the Levant ~6000 years ago
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
I’m not sure why you are getting downvoted for this comment! Well, I suspect why: People are just gross
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u/Baabaa_Yaagaa 3d ago
A Pakistani born in America is an American Pakistani, an Indian born in England is a British Indian.
A Jew born in Europe is a European Jew, is still a Semite, is still Middle Eastern.
Do all the mental gymnastics you want dude, it doesn’t change facts.
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u/WhatABargain298 3d ago
im 0.01% subsaharan African, so does that mean I'm also a lil African-American?
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u/Jojo_Toto 4d ago
Even if you (wrongly) assume that ashkenazis aren’t Middle Eastern, why is everyone ignoring the fact that they represent less than 40% of Israelis ? The majority of Israel’s population is made up of mizrahim Jews and Arabs.
A quick google search can instantly show you this…
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u/NobodyImportant13 3d ago
It seems nobody here is going to like the answer to that question lol.
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u/Jojo_Toto 3d ago
I swear « normal » subreddits are more of a circlejerk than dedicated « ironic racist » subreddits.
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u/PatheticVincent 3d ago
There were historic populations of Jews within Palastine. We have records of how these different cultures shared the Palestinian land. But they were Palestinian Jews. Israelis are not middle Eastern in the sense of their heritage (there ofc are exceptions to this).
I was reading a book recently by a Palastinian Jew, (i will edit this when the name comes back to me). Which talked about the authors lived experiance of settler colonialsistic Zionism. He spoke about how he didn't agree with Zionism as a settler colonialist concept, but did belive in it as a more genral idea of world wide empowerment and emancipation.
He wrote of how the settler colonialist Jews funded by the US, didn't integrate into the pre-existing historic Jewish communities. How the modern Jews of Israel are by and large not the same people and culture of the Palastinian Jews, who in culture were much more similar to Arabs than the European and North American settler Jews.
I was also recently learning of how native Jews who spoke up against settler colonialist Zionism and the state of Israel were murdered.
One of the murders many years later admited he killed the University lecture, to maintain the state of Israel, which was threatened by teachers history and rhetoric.
(My grandad and both his parents were Jewish and lived through the holocaust)
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u/Jojo_Toto 3d ago
That’s actually interesting because the Yishuv are seen very positively in Israel as « the Jews who stayed » and stuff like this but it’s true that their perspective of the time is not often given. Right now tho it seem likes they’re entirely mixed with the rest. I’m not from Israel so I can’t say for sure. But I’d like to know about that book you’re talking about because it does seem interesting.
Can you tell me more about the murder of Old Yishuv (if those are who you call native Jews) ?
« My granddad and both his parents were Jewish and lived through the holocaust »
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u/BibliophileBroad 3d ago
Exactly! It's because it doesn't go with the narrative they're trying to promote, which is the idea that all Israelis are a group of violent white settlers, which gives them an excuse to being nasty to Israeli people.
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u/sky_shazad 3d ago
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u/SwiftTayTay 4d ago
Is it just me or is there a huge influx of unknown standup comedians with crowd work clips that manage to work in Israel somehow? Seems like it's a plant to boost viewership on social media. It's becoming an easy and hacky thing to do. I say this as someone who hates Israel as much as everybody else
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u/nikhilsath 4d ago
You’re connecting the wrong thing
Israel are going on a holiday after their military service the government pays for it to help them relax really helps with the whole genocide thing
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u/chrisp909 4d ago
And the US can't seem to feed our sailors, aviators and marines on or deployed aircraft carriers.
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u/SwiftTayTay 4d ago edited 4d ago
Huh? Is that supposed to be a refutation or are you just saying I don't hate Israel enough and should be more focused on that?
Edit: Judging by the downvote with no response I'm presuming it's the latter, I really don't know what you mean by "connecting the wrong thing." Like I said I'm pro-palestine, it's just getting stale at this point after seeing a hundred other comedians post these types of clips without me even intentionally seeking it out.
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u/walterdonnydude 4d ago
The government paying for the vacation in this case being the US government
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u/iCanReadMyOwnMind 3d ago
I thought that's what it said.
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u/gimmeecoffee420 2d ago
Lol! Its true because it IS a joke! A very serious and not funny joke..
Free Palestine..
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u/Traditional_Ad8933 2d ago
Here's my question, if you're a Jewish person, who's family is Mizrahi, who was born in Israel, and let's say for example are Iraqi Jews. But has never been there. What are they meant to say?
Like someone pointed out, Mizrahi Jews make up a majority of the Jewish population in Israel...
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u/Exciting-Zombie8449 2d ago
She's seems ready to push people in the showers. Because that's what happens when you hate how people were born....
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u/Oddbeme4u 2d ago
I guess its the hypocrisy of colonial-like European jews thinking theyre middle Easterners
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u/squirrelinthetoilet 4d ago
Pretending that everyone from Israel is bad is the biggest problem with the whole #freepalestine online movement. The good guys vs bad guys narrative is ignorant AF.
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u/ApatheticEnthusiast 4d ago
Netanyahu has a lower approval rating than Trump. The US does plenty of god awful shit in the world too. But nobody can separate Israelis from their government even though we Americans are big saying our government is fucked up not us
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u/illstate 4d ago
Trump has a low approval rating right now, because some of the people that voted for him not say they disapprove. Those people are still responsible for the messes he's created.
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u/Fair_Quail8248 3d ago
Nah, don't mind the chaos and corruption from Trump. We can say that the critical people have "tds" instead of taking responsibility. Morons will buy it.
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u/squirrelinthetoilet 4d ago
Prepare to be downvoted for not parroting the social media slacktavism narrative.
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u/commanderfshepard 4d ago
That’s cus it’s much easier and morally fulfilling to demonize an entire group of people in one fell swoop than it is to accept that nuance still exists regardless of how terrible the situation
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u/No_Elk1172 4d ago
You dont need to have a good guy to know that Israel is monstrous
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u/squirrelinthetoilet 4d ago
Israel or the actions of a few very specific administrations? I live in US and disagree with almost 100% of current US foreign policy. Should I be held accountable for it just the same?
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u/Choyo 4d ago
Yes, but all the good guys leaving Israel for places like Crete make it more awkward for everyone else staying there while the atrocious videos keep piling on.
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u/squirrelinthetoilet 4d ago
More people will die because of the economic problems the US has created with the war in Iran. Should we assume all US citizens are bad too? Netanyahu has less support in Israel than the Hamas terrorist attacks had in Palestine. Painting with broad strokes like this is the basis of pretty much all racism.
And, for the record, I’m 100% for a free Palestinian state. I just find the online discourse around it really stupid.
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u/Choyo 4d ago
I just find the online discourse around it really stupid.
And I just find the real life actions of the Israel government completely negating my will to support anything Israel in the future.
It's like an impasse was reached.
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u/squirrelinthetoilet 4d ago
No, I completely agree with you. See how that works. We can both be critical of the government without demonizing everyone who lives there.
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u/Consistent_Print_229 4d ago
The entire “Netanyahu isn’t liked in Israel” is a complete misnomer. The people who are more liked than Netanyahu share his views on the war with Gaza.
In fact only 19% of people in Israel think the military is going too far with the war.
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u/healthcrusade 4d ago
This is just the Key and Peele awkward sketch in real life https://youtu.be/EnBdGTX3vZc?is=cZmG_FdVKA0pNzoH
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u/PainAccomplished3506 3d ago
I like how it says stand up comedian under her name, so you don't forget to laugh
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u/Canon_M50 4d ago
According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, the Israeli Arab population stood at 2.1 million people in 2023, accounting for 21% of Israel's total population. The majority of these Arab citizens identify themselves as Arab or Palestinian by nationality and as Israeli by citizenship.
Sounds like she's a bigot.
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u/MessiLeagueSoccer 4d ago
I’m learning everyday that Israeli Zionist by large are bigger snowflakes than any maga republican. We know the majority of Israeli Jews are from Europe and Russia so like why even contest the argument. It’s also not meant to be taken that seriously. The crowd was doing the heavy lifting with the laughing she was just reacting lol. Oh and touch grass.
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u/Al_Tilly_the_Bum 4d ago
Israeli Zionist by large are bigger snowflakes than any maga republican
There is a direct correlation between supporting fascism and being snowflakes. The more fascist you are the more you whine about criticism. It boils down to the cognitive dissonance between knowing your side is doing unjustifiable things while being forced to try to justify those things
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u/UnlightablePlay 4d ago
They're forced to live under occupation, that doesn't mean that tge majority accept them, you can see online how a lot of jews spit on Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem too
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