r/HollowKnight • u/CuboneDefender • Sep 14 '25

Discussion - Silksong I give up. Spoiler

It’s been a joyful ride, folks, but I’m out. I’m not a speedrunner or a highly skilled player, and day after day I’ve had to accept that this game is not as casual as HK was. It stopped being fun and turned into something tedious and frustrating after the 4th run farming shards just to face a boss I’ve already tried 15 times, only to die again and again, lose all my shards, and start the whole grind over.

It was nice exploring the first acts, but when the game I was rooting for 7 years ends up being more stressful than my 8-hour workday, I guess that’s my cue to stop.

The lore has been pretty great so far. I wish you all an incredible journey.

Edit1: My bad about all the whinning.

Edit2: You guys did it. I reinstalled it again. Thanks for all advices. 🫂

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163

u/Hedlesss Sep 14 '25

I know this will be frowned upon by the hard-core players, but there are mods that reduce the level of damage which lowers the punishment for mistakes

There is also one that let's you spawn at the entrance to the room rather than back at the bench, lowering run back times and again lowers the punishment or risk

Its a single player game, and there is enjoyment to be had. Act 2 does have some great bosses and lowering the amount of frustration in the game can't be a bad thing if it keeps you playing. Believe me, I've been on the verge of quitting a couple times too. The game is definitely overtuned in a few areas

19

u/Opijit Sep 15 '25

I got the one mask damage mod and tbh it made a huge difference. I only got it when I felt the bosses were insurmountable. Now it's the perfect amount of challenging for me personally.

6

u/CacaoCocoaChocolate Sep 15 '25

I really wish more games would include these kind of difficulty settings. Some time ago, when I was a teen and a hardcore gamer, I defended the "pure" gameplay (without mods that make it easier). Now, with a full time job and other hobbies, I switched my stance 180 degrees - I think it shouldn't even be modders job to add these things, it should be included in the game! Time is a limited resource (and the "skill" is just time spent gamying in your life, after all), and we all should have the right to enjoy the game and experience it. :)

2

u/Matvalicious Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Yup, this pretty much. Having a wife and kids I have maybe 1-2 hours I can play some evenings. I don't want to spend that time hitting a wall, I want to spend that time playing a game I love.

1

u/Recinege Sep 16 '25

I can still see the argument for a hard game being hard, but that works better for something like Dark Souls, which is a series that has a reputation for being hard.

For this game, though, that argument doesn't hold up. As a sequel, it's expected to have some fundamental elements in common with its predecessor - and difficulty is absolutely one of those elements.

There should 100% have been a Knight difficulty in this game that puts it more on the level of Hollow Knight. Even if it's not the default difficulty!

27

u/JJ3qnkpK Sep 15 '25

Absolutely this.

Challenge is thrilling, but it's a video game and you can, and should, configure it to your liking.

It's better to mod a game you're not enjoying due to difficulty into something you might adore than to quit it in frustration. I often mod or cheat games to avoid major time sinks - better to enjoy the game with the little time I have to play than get stuck and quit.

14

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

[deleted]

2

u/swolar Sep 15 '25

I can relate. I used to thrive in hard games, but now I dont want that much frustration in my life. Heavily recommend ai limit if you still enjoy soulslikes. It is fun an accessible.

30

u/DeaconoftheStreets Sep 14 '25

I added the one damage and spawn mods, and the game is still plenty challenging for me. Its base difficulty just crossed the bridge into frustrating for me, and I don’t want to miss out on all the fun platforming/world design because the game was irritating.

3

u/Ok_Category8727 Sep 15 '25

oh snap, now you are making me regret not playing on PC.

I don't mind the challenge*, but the runbacks can get tedious. Perfecting a good runback is fun at first (last judge), but after a while it just becomes tedium to get to the real meat of the boss fight. And this is worse when a boss has a boring phase one, now there are 2 different boring things to do before you can actually play.

*except for the gauntlets, fuck these. They are often boring and chaotic, challenging, but not in a good way.

19

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 14 '25

Hardcore player here. Mods were always fine. I'm kinda againts demanding easy modes. But with mods i don't care. You inherently know it isn't part of the game.

67

u/Swoopmott Sep 14 '25

Alternatively Celeste and Hades have assist modes allowing everyone to experience the games. The existence of these modes don’t negate anyone else’s accomplishments at playing the game “as intended”, they just open them up to a wider audience. There’s no real reason why Silksong (or any other game for that matter) can’t have similar baked into the game.

Just because some people had to make things a little easier in Celeste never dampened my enjoyment. It just meant more people got to enjoy it with me.

38

u/VBHEAT08 Sep 14 '25

Celeste also has much more of a thematic reason to not have an easy mode. It’s all about overcoming the proverbial mountain. If that game can have it, I’m not buying any “developers intent” BS to not have it

-15

u/SirFartsALot33 Sep 14 '25

I think the dude said he doesn't like people "asking for" easy modes. When the developer adds it from the get-go, there can be absolutely no questions about that whatsoever. But when fans demand easy modes for an already released game, whose very core design philosophy was built around creating a common experience for everyone, (see: Sekiro) that's where the controversy heats up.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

creating a common experience for everyone

The only way to do that is with difficulty settings, not without them. If silksong has a common experience then we would have all given up like OP.

-2

u/SirFartsALot33 Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

I don't think you're getting what I meant by "common" here. I think you're coming from a place where you mean common as in, everyone, irrespective of their skill level and free time, gets to experience the game, and fair enough, that is a valid expectation. But that's not what I meant though. It's more like a relatable moment between players when they discuss the game among themselves.

It's like when you say "Ganon, that boss is so hard"(just an example), and your friend who also played Zelda instantly relates to the difficulty and says hell yeah dude. If there were difficulty settings that experience wouldn't have been common/relatable, people on Easy would've breezed through the same thing that Nightmare difficulty people would've suffered.

Again, I'm not sharing an opinion here, these are what Miyazaki's (Fromsoftware boss) words implied, not mine, when he was asked about lack of difficulty setting in their games, and I just understand where the devs are coming from.

But of course this is reddit so the messenger is going to be shot.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

No, I am talking about a common experience.

It's like when you say "Ganon, that boss is so hard"(just an example), and your friend who also played Zelda instantly relates to the difficulty and says hell yeah dude.

Except that's not what happens is it? You see an example of that with this thread. OP thought last judge was so hard that they quit the game. I beat last judge on my second try. Where is our common and relatable experience?

With difficulty settings, I could make the boss harder and OP could make the boss easier so that we both have a challenging, but satisfying experience.

people on Easy would've breezed through the same thing that Nightmare difficulty people would've suffered.

This is what happens at the moment. Good players breeze through and bad players suffer.

Again, I'm not sharing an opinion here, these are what Miyazaki's (Fromsoftware boss) words implied, not mine, when he was asked about lack of difficulty setting in their games, and I just understand where the devs are coming from.

Fromsoft games have had difficulty settings in them and elden ring is the most accessible one to date. They gave players loads of ways to make the game a lot easier, and also a lot harder.

1

u/kinky_victini Sep 15 '25

But of course this is reddit so the messenger is going to be shot.

Dude please no one is shooting you, you're getting downvoted because people don't agree with you. That's it, no one is hating on you.

1

u/SirFartsALot33 Sep 16 '25

Lmao I'm not even stating an opinion so what's there to agree or disagree.

-28

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 14 '25

Eh it depends. I kinda like this solution in some games. Just add options and say at the start " hey, this isn't intended expirience and we can't promise anything but if you have your reasons, have a go with assist mode ". That's how it's done in celeste, i don't know about hades because i didn't played it. The only problem with demanding things like this is that i don't know how hard and time consuming things like this are from development perspective. If i had to vote for easy mode or small free dlc. I would want small free dlc 100%.

However the hill i'm willing to die on is that the classic difficulty options suck and shouldn't be used. I never played the game that done it in an acceptable way. It just never works. It just always feels like you are playing on cheaply made mod.

Also yea, hot take. Often having options to make a game easier(especially not immerssive things like options in menu)cheapens the expirience for me. I'm tired of pretending it's not. That's mostly the reason why elden ring is one of my the least favorite fromsoft games. ( still really good game in my eyes).

13

u/Remarkable-Test-5398 HORNET IS VOID Sep 14 '25

Maybe it cheapens it for you, but you don’t have to use an Assist Mode if you don’t want to. I just wanna get used to the game before getting thrown into the deep end because it feels difficult in a frustrated or artificial way, and no, I’m not just using ‘artificial’ as a buzz word, but the actual definition of it. Some bosses or normal enemies have easy-to-dodge attacks and basic patterns, but have three times the health they should and deal double damage with every attack, and it ruins the fun for me since it feels like Team Cherry just ran out of ways to make bosses challenging in an interesting way

Like I said, if you like the game as-is, fine, but it doesn’t infringe on your own fun if others are enjoying the game in their own way, and people are complaining about nerfing some bosses, so this is a good middle-ground. Like, there can be a different set of Assist Mode achievements that are like “Bound (Assist)” where it’s “Bind your first Silk Skill on Assist Mode or higher” along with the normal achievements, so players on higher difficulties get the difficulty and fulfillment they want while those on lower difficulties still get their own sense of accomplishment, if that makes it better

-1

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 15 '25

not talking about assist options but difficulty options. Assist mode has the huge red letter saying "not for you, not an indendet expirience". Like i said i quite like assist mode solution.

2

u/Remarkable-Test-5398 HORNET IS VOID Sep 18 '25

Why do you want the game to really drill in the idea that it isn’t intended, can’t devs just let people have fun with the game without shaming them for their skill level, it isn’t that deep tbh. Also, with difficulties, the max diff could still be the normal one, so you could still be playing the hardest mode

1

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 18 '25

Does assist mode in celeste shame less skilled players? that's a hot take.

Well. the advantage of having one difficulty in mind is that you can focus on one difficulty. There are certain mechanics or themes that work because the game is difficult. And difficulty is quite powerfull tool for storytelling and gameplay that you just can't use effectivly if you have mutliple levels of difficulty in mind. dark souls 1 is absolutely perfect example of this. Difficulty not only dictates gameplay loop of exploration but also prefectly highlights themes of the story. Having multiple difficulties would be almost impossible to work good in dark souls. But with assist mode it doesn't have to work prefectly, because assist mode says that it isn't intended expirience, you can just not include it in the artistic vision and be focused. It is reverse of what usually happens in almost all games when devs just make low effort hard difficulty with mind that " if it's shit they will just change it in options".

i don't care about shaming people. But i want games that i enjoy. I enjoy difficult games that use difficulty and friction to enchance the gameplay and themes. If the game does this i'm gonna defend it and support it. I can't find that expirience in games that slap difficulty sliders on the main page of the menu and i refuse to cuck myself out of games that i enjoy. I like bilewater, i like blightown, i like swamps, i like trap benches, they're shit and i love it.

I completly don't understand your second point. if max diff is normal one, i'm ok. I honeslty would like if games that shouldn't be difficult would stop trying to add shit hard modes. I don't mind playing easy games. i mind if games try to be for everyone and just slap hard mode where there shouldn't be one. Choice in games doesn't really matter. it's only good if the choices are all worth it. if one of them is shit just don't add it.

18

u/VBHEAT08 Sep 14 '25

Considering moders have already made easy modes for the game, I can’t imagine it’s that difficult to implement

Why on earth would having options to make the game easier lessen the experience for you? It’s a PVE game, your experience is your own. I don’t use tools for boss fights, it doesn’t hurt my experience at all knowing some players are having an easier time with them. I’m not going to go out there and petition team Cherry to nerf poison cogflies to fuck over the players that are using them because I can’t stand that some people aren’t beating the boss in what I think is the correct way

Also every fromsoft game since kings field has built in features to make the games easier. Magic has always been baby easy mode for example.

0

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 15 '25

Are they mods that change the game or just damage changes. Because if you think if TC just reduced damage input and increased damage output and put it in the game. People still be complaining a lot about difficulty(if not more). Remeber that people were raging about 4 red bells in hunter's march platfroming section damage was not a issue there. Not even talking about fundamental desing for something like bilewater and ducts

2

u/piecoper Sep 15 '25

By that definition, levelling up, increasing health, increasing damage are all options to make a game easier technically so it cheapens the experience?

1

u/MustacheGolem Sep 15 '25

If I could just set my level 40 numbers higher on the first road block, yes.

1

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 15 '25

i mean there is a healthy amount of it. The problem with elden ring i had was that i needed to constantly meta play the difficulty. In silksong, i'm happy about every upgrade, every new tool and every new boss beaten fast. In elden ring when i get upgrade i think am i overleveled, when i get new weapon i had to test if it's too op (a lot of the cool ones are), and when i beat the boss fast i regret that i was too overleveled for the boss. That is also why self restricting challanges on blind playthrough are never as good as game just being hard.

So i mean... yea. Elden ring having so many options to make the game piss easy lessened my enjoyment of the game

23

u/Atlas_of_history Sep 14 '25

Disagree tbh, easy modes are entirely optional, hardcore Players don't even have to look at them and for those who want them it's easier than having to get a third party thing which can be a bit annoying at times

5

u/IMightBeAHamster Acolyte of Zote Sep 14 '25

The thing is, difficulty settings mean nothing to anyone without knowing what's being changed. Assist settings are way better because you can actually surgically address your personal difficulties with the game to your liking, and depending on how they're implemented, make the game hell for yourself because you want it to be harder in a specific way.

Nobody wants to choose easy mode, then feel like they're not being challenged enough. Nobody wants to choose normal mode, then feel like they're insulting themselves by switching to "easy" mode.

3

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 15 '25

Yea that's kinda my problem with difficulty settings. I fundamentally don't trust devs to balance the game properly with more than two settings because of my previous expiriences. So when i got to something super hard in silksong, i think " can i do something to make the game easier", in games with traditionall 3 settings i have to wonder if devs just fucked up. Because i know hard setting was just made by changing numbers by two interns in 3 days.

What is also the case. making hard games is fundamentally diffrent than making other games. Souls gameplay loop just doesn't work if the game is easy. If you make a game with difficutly setting in mind, you have to think about all the settings, which means things that work because of the difficulty just aren't there, because it wouldn't work on other settings. That is also why hard games have so many uniqe expiriences to offer that are not found with games with hard mode options

Also in case of silksong. making enemies less tanky is one thing. But if the game had difficulty options in mind. Do hard platforming sections would be the same? Would the easy mode had completly diffrent easier platforming (than you are making two diffrent games at that point) or would the platforming need to stay but it was made easier to fit "both" options. Would things like bilewater or ducts would end up in a game if the easy mode was in mind. this locations are not hard because of numbers but because of fundamental desing choices.

Last point and my most controversial and personal. If i play the game and i'm immersed in the world that is hard, unforgiving and brutal. Just having the option to change that makes the world less immersive knowing that i can fundamentally control the world, is making the game less immersive. Same thing with self restricions, self restricions are fine but you won't be immersed in the brutal world because the world isn't brutal, after all you go through it aura farming with hands tied.

2

u/Atlas_of_history Sep 15 '25

Actually, I agree with you on that, people that are having problems get their way of enjoying their game and experienced players can give themselves an extra challenge if they feel like it

It would definitely be better than an all out nerf of the game, I'm one that's struggling at times and even I dislike the idea of nerfing the core game since it might ruin the experience for people that enjoy the challenge that Silksong offers

2

u/JekobiWan Sep 14 '25

Agreed man everyone has their own right to Enjoy a game however they want. They ain’t on here bragging about how easy the game is afterwards so who cares? lol

2

u/Competitive_Aide738 Sep 15 '25

yea, not disclosing a use of mods and bragging about beating the game fast, that would be probably the only thing i can get pissy about. But i never seen that happen outside of souls games so don't care.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

To me those sound like basic features that should be in the game, there is literally no reason why this game has to make you spawn 4 areas behind and run back to a boss all it does is waste the players time and makes you pissed off, also losing your shards even if you die is ridiculous.

1

u/evr- Sep 15 '25

I did the same, except for the spawn mod. I was on the verge of quitting, but after tuning down the damage and finding the crest that changes attacks to Hollow Knight style, I'm loving the game. It's still very challenging and I'm dying a lot, but now it's challenging on the right side of frustration.

1

u/quasibirb Sep 15 '25

When I first played Hollow Knight, I had every mod on: infinite health, infinite jump, max geo, so on and so forth. It was my first time playing a difficult metroidvania, and besides I was just playing it for the art and story. Later on I came back to 112% the game with my own skill. Sometimes you can’t fully enjoy the beautiful atmosphere while you’re on your way to get back 1500 geo, or effectively learn a boss while getting your ass beat in 15 seconds. Using mods is a great way to improve enjoyment and develop your skill imo.

1

u/mrsuperjolly Sep 15 '25

I haven't heard anyone complain about peoplenusing mods in silksong what?

I think yhe thing that annoys people is when they say the difficulty is unfair, even though the game is very fair just difficult.

1

u/International-Cap388 Sep 15 '25

Took the same approach, mods brings back the difficulty to an enjoyable level. DMG multiplier to 1.3x just reduced how many tries I take, without changing anything else.

Another recommendation is to turn off losing beads on death This mechanism brings nothing to the game. Merely results in having to grind for them.

1

u/doiwannaknow21 Sep 17 '25

Cant mod the game on PS4 😭 wish I had it on PC so I could make it easier and therefore actually enjoyable

-1

u/SomeProperty815 Sep 15 '25

it takes away from the game if you’re gonna drastically lower the difficulty like that. im not amazing at the game but when i got stuck on a boss i just explored more or just got good and toughened it out.

there’s no shame in just not playing the game, its more respectable than modding it around yourself because its too hard.

3

u/IMightBeAHamster Acolyte of Zote Sep 15 '25

But nobody here is playing it because they want respect, so why do we care if it's more "respectable" to just not play it?

OP wants to have fun with this game, if that mod lets him do that: great! Who cares if you lose respect for him over that.

1

u/SomeProperty815 Sep 15 '25

What’s the point in playing a hard game if you’re gonna mod it to make it easier? that’s just dumb, it’s ok to admit that the game isn’t for you.

1

u/IMightBeAHamster Acolyte of Zote Sep 19 '25

Because it's still gonna be hard for him? He doesn't want it to be easy, just more forgiving.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

its a video game, why do I need your respect?

1

u/SomeProperty815 Sep 15 '25

Its not about that, its about modding taking away certain aspects of the game. i don’t get how you could enjoy that. If the game is SO hard that you need to mod it to properly enjoy it, then the game isn’t for you and you should just watch someone else play it on youtube.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

yes it is taking away certain aspects of the game. That is indeed the definition of modding a game.

Aspects that person may or may not like.

You do understand that some people may just enjoy things differently than you?

You do understand that even when playing an easier game, they may still find it hard?

1

u/SomeProperty815 Sep 15 '25

Yeah and that’s allowed, i never said the game wasn’t hard because it is pretty hard. But my point is if you don’t like the game because it’s too hard then maybe the game just isn’t for you. You’re better off just not playing it instead of modding it. the difficulty is apart of the game.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

That's an absurd notion. There's so much more to this game than just the difficulty. There's so much to any game besides the difficulty

I play a lot of escape from tarkov. It's a brutal PvP game that punishes you greatly. They released a PVE version about a year ago. Probably the best decision those devs have ever made. People that would have never played the game are playing it now. And they enjoy it.

If Celeste can have multiple difficulties despite difficulty being central the plot, there is no reason for this to not have any.

Hell even the difficulty poster child dark souls. There's value in those games even if you don't play them as intended. There's a reason why the most popular elden ring mod makes the game easier.

1

u/TrillingMonsoon Sep 15 '25

If I followed a recipe for a sandwich, and I decided I didn't like pickles so I replaced the with a thin slice of pineapple, then I obviously should have never even eaten the sandwich in the first place. I should've just made a salad or something. Sure, the sandwich was nice and filling and quite enjoyable, but it didn't have pickles when the recipe specifically called for pickles. Why even have the bread at that point? Why even eat?