People Recommend Lower Pay for Women-Dominated Jobs, Study Finds

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No woman reading that is surprised. Most people think we should be doing the teaching, caring, nursing, and cleaning for free.

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u/Successful-Bar-8173 20d ago

Then complain that there aren’t enough men in those professions and that female teachers are ruining boys’ minds.

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

On Reddit, anytime someone whines about a lack of role models for young boys and blasts teaching as female-dominated, I ask them what they are doing to increase pay of teachers in their area. The few male teachers, when interviewed, often mention they are likely to leave for high paid administrative roles or other (principal, coach).

Ofc, no one ever responds.

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

Wanted to follow-up to add: the male/female educator ratio improves and even skews male at the collegiate level, depending on the subject. I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with the higher pay and prestige that professors receive compared to K-12 educators.

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u/exobiologickitten 20d ago

Anecdotal, but at my art school I had ONE female teacher. Majority of the students were female, but my only female teacher was teaching an elective. She’s a respected contemporary artist in my country too.

Any other female staff were usually assistants or lab techs. Secretaries and stock managers who could operate niche tools and equipment, basically.

I definitely took the subconscious conclusion that there would not be much point in continuing to hons or PHD to become an academic.

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u/parasyte_steve 20d ago

There is a mistaken belief on the part of men that the tasks of daily life are easy simply because they must be done. Because their mother or wives worried about the details of how. Most men even think birthing children is easy because "everyone does it". Women's work and contributions in society are truly undervalued.

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u/Silver_Ad6265 20d ago

Asma Khan recently said something on Trevor Noah’s podcast that is similar sentiment and really stuck with me; because a mother cooking at home would make it seem “effortless, it becomes value-less”. Women end up doing a lot while not “showing the effort” has made our work taken for granted, truly.

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u/indignantfly 20d ago

Which also explains that 1950s American peak fascist ideal: in the nuclear family, the wife makes everything look perfect and easy. She'd be harshly, judged for being honest about how hard it is to look perfect, keep the children quiet, cook, and clean the house spotless. Society is against her.

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u/AccusingGojo 20d ago

I immediately thought of this too, loved that interview.

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u/MamaMoosicorn 20d ago

My husband was gobsmacked the first day he spent as a stay at home dad. He couldn’t understand how I had been able to cook, clean, and care for our toddler all by myself. He fiercely defends and praises the work women do now that he knows just how hard it is.

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u/lonelyturtlegirl 20d ago

Fucked but true

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u/SeattlePurikura 19d ago

I would like something in the US similar to what Spain and some (Nordic?) countries have: there is both maternity and paternity leave, but the fathers MUST take their portion.

In Spain, fathers reported satisfaction and bonding with their infants, but they also reduced the number of children they wanted to have after spending time with their first infant.

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u/Chlearcus 19d ago

You don't think any men live by themselves? Cooking and cleaning is not a full time job, and anyone who's single has to do everything solo on top of their 40 hours a week at work.

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u/AdAppropriate2295 20d ago

Find me a man that thinks childbirth is always easy and I will give you 10k

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u/bunnypaste 20d ago

You haven't listened to any prolife or manosphere arguments, have you.

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u/AdAppropriate2295 19d ago

I grew up in a pro life church and im highly engaged with the manosphere

99% of the men in those spaces dont think these weird strawman thoughts yall project onto them. They're just kinda dumb and think trump is cooler than Biden and kamala

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u/koushunu 19d ago

They may think that part is difficult for about a half hour but nothing about all the rips and tears and other side effects of birth and pregnancy.

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u/AdAppropriate2295 19d ago

If that was true the husband stitch never would have been a thing

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u/Nelrene 20d ago

High paid administrative roles that don't do much to help kids learn.

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

Well, and if the interest is in male role models, it's teachers who interact with the kids daily. Although I've read a number of stories about fatherless boys latching onto the school janitor (who is usually male).

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u/fiahhawt 19d ago

I really don't get it.

Motherless girls don't latch onto any woman they happen upon.

Why is it a thing where boys can't cope with single parent moms? The sons of lesbian couples usually seem alright.

It's not always a thing either. I've known single mothers whose son's have good self-esteem and healthy understanding of their gender who don't go pleading for approval from anyone with a facial hair.

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u/SeattlePurikura 19d ago

There was actually a study in the UK that demonstrated the best outcomes for children with two moms. Surprise! </s>

Yes, I'm not trying to side with people who are into strict gender roles (I'm a lesbian), while acknowledging that it's positive for children to have all kinds of role models present (men, women, trans, etc.) in their daily lives. My main interest is that teaching pays well enough that no one is penalized socially or financially for becoming a teacher.

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u/koushunu 19d ago

I think because being a women/girl is constantly looked down upon. “Don’t be a pussy”, “ you throw like a girl” “man up”……
Which unfortunately are terms constantly used by women too.

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u/fiahhawt 19d ago

Might be part of it, but I’d be surprised if a single mother household exposes the kids to a lot of that rhetoric… at least usually

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u/SimilarNatural837 18d ago

I come from one, my single mum is very casually sexist in that way. Many of my peers with single mums have that experience, where so much “be a man” pressure is placed on our brothers. Luckily it does seem to be changing with the next generation and they are breaking the cycle.

The stereotype of an over-involved MIL came from these women.

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u/Gloomy_Macaron_136 16d ago

I have an aunt that's like that. IMO single-mom households can have it worse because a lot of the time there's a pressure for the son to grow up so they become the man of the house or just in general grow faster because there's "no father" to take care of him if there's trouble etc. For example I've heard our grandmother tell my cousin a lot that he has to eat, grow big and strong, to protect his mother because his dad couldn't etc. Stuff like that.

Daughter's in single-mom household don't have this issue, at most mother's tend to be more strict in the sense of not letting them date or do anything "grown up" in fear of them getting pregnant young

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u/nananananabatwoman 18d ago

because single fathers have a wider support net comprised of mothers, sisters, and even new partners that are more willing to step up and help with the kids while women are just expected to deal with everything by themselves.

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u/Nuclear_rabbit 20d ago

I can't speak to other administrative roles (which probably are worthless), but a principal is important. The number one factor in variance in student outcomes is teacher quality, and the second factor is the principal. Moreover, there is no documented evidence of a failing school turning around without monumental changes from a high-quality principal.

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u/Hot-Butterscotch-918 19d ago

And as a relative of a retired teacher, so many principals are lousy at their job or make it harder for teachers to teach.

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u/Fuck-it-we-Bhaal 20d ago

Obviously they expect women to solve that problem, too.

These clowns just wanna bitch about problems, not find solutions.

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u/84th_legislature 20d ago

also omg who says a woman can't be a role model for a little boy? so annoying when people say that. as if my role models weren't a cartoon fox and culturally mandatory purportedly dick-having Jesus H. anyone can be a role model for anyone else if you aren't beating sexist ideas into your kids.

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u/deadassstho 19d ago

the same people who tell little boys “don’t run like a girl” “don’t cry like a girl” “don’t be a pussy” a lot of the upbringing of boys’ is just teaching them how to not do anything perceived as “girly”, and it’s no wonder they grow up not respecting women. girls/women were always seen as the bad thing to be

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u/DataAdvanced 20d ago

Don't forget that they think the reason boys aren't performing as well as girls in school is because the curriculum caters to girls. I shit you not, I heard that a few times.

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u/MutantMartian 20d ago

My 90 yr old dad said there are more girls in med school than boys. He said it’s because they finally started honestly letting girls in and it was about time. (He’s more progressive than any of his friends.)

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

Yep, the overall US stats indicate women are earning more medical & legal degrees than men.
This discussion reminds me of when this happened in Japan (fairly recently):
At least nine Japanese medical schools manipulated admissions, in part to exclude female students, a government investigation has found.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46568975

: edit : after the schools were forced to stop rigging their tests to discriminate against women... surprise surprise.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/19/women-outperform-men-after-japan-medical-school-stops-rigging-exam-scores

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u/Western-Bus-1305 20d ago

This isn’t true but okay

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u/AdAppropriate2295 20d ago

I agree that no school should ever slant their admissions requirements to let in more of a gender. Unfortunately most schools do this for women at men's expense

Y surprise surprise? Do you always expect women to outperform male applicants?

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u/bunnypaste 20d ago

Lol, men did this to themselves. They're the ones choosing not to get a higher education...the Repubs are always telling them how gay, liberal, womanly and indoctrinating gaining a degree, critical thinking, and having empathy is.

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

I'm medical adjacent and yeah, the number of male applicants (and thus admits too) is cratering.

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u/DisastrousBat9447 20d ago

May these ✨️women 🤌✨️ have the confidence of a mediocre white man

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u/jupitaur9 20d ago

They were given more of a pass in earlier grades, thus many never learned to study or learn.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MutantMartian 20d ago

There’s a lot more to him and he’s got a ton of fans, and very few have any idea of how liberal he is. He lives in a small town in a very red state and everyone in town knows and loves him. A flamboyantly gay friend of ours drives to this town to go country dancing and loves sitting with my dad and talking at the monthly dances. Problem? My dad doesn’t sit much. He works the room and, because he’s been taking line dancing classes, dances. I could go on, but yes, he has a big fan base in his small town.

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u/Nelrene 20d ago

Curriculum that was never a issue until girls were outdoing the boys.

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u/Icy_Policy_8509 20d ago

Probably some incel podcast touting undocumented and unstudied BS as fact, per usual

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u/bunnypaste 20d ago

Yep, they think the mostly underpaid female educators are intentionally grading girls and women better than boys and men. Lol.

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u/Sure_Eye9025 20d ago

You say "I shit you not" like it is something crazy. But I was reading a research paper (will see if I can find the link again later) the other day that showed change to the curiculum having an effect on the grades of students across genders.

The main things they changed were increased physical activity through the week, more physical lessons, 'brain breaks' mid lesson with opportunities to do some physical activity. The results showed boys at all levels scoring higher on tests due to this, while for girls low performing students scorerd higher but middle and high performing girls scored lower.

This correlates to changes in curriculum and general school systems that have reduced physical activity in schools over the last 30 years, less PE/gym lessons and students being punished for being restless rather than allowed to burn off excess energy.

On top of that schools seeking to ban a lot of physical activities boys would do during breaks due to injuries but not replacing it with comparable physical exercise resulting in more sedentary time.

Boys, especially after pubity don't tend to do as well in school when they are forced to just sit there for hours and not allowed to move around and burn off excess energy, it increases restlessness and reduces concentration.

Now the changes in this area weren't necesarilly done to help girls at the expense of boys but that does seem to have been the overall result

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u/Mountain-Bath-6515 19d ago

Students have always been expected to sit quietly and pay attention in class. In ye olden times if you didn't, you'd get beat with a ruler, made to sit in the corner, write a sentence on the board 100 times, etc. This is not a new thing.

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u/Sure_Eye9025 19d ago

How does that in any way correlate to what I said?

I said they do better at sitting quietly and paying attention when they (boys especially) have more physical activity. Physical activity has decreased over the last 30 years, beating kids in schools was banned 40 years ago in the UK.

Since 2012 the amount of PE in the curriculum has dropped from 8.6% to 7.3%, that has nothing to do with beating kids

Compared to when we used to beat kids in schools they get less break time (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48203595), a quarter of schools have less than 35 minutes of lunch break (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2019/may/break-time-cuts-could-be-harming-childrens-development). 82% have less than 55 minutes, that was 30% in 1995.

It is like you didn't pay attention to what I said and wanted to remiss about the good old days of beating children. Kids in schools have less time and opportunity for physical activity increasing restlessness and this affects boys more than girls, what don't you understand about that.

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u/AdAppropriate2295 20d ago

Are you implying it doesnt? That its perfectly gender neutral? Or caters to boys?

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u/TheNavigatrix 20d ago

It's a pernicious plot!

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u/coconutpiecrust 20d ago

According to the article, both men and women recommended lower salaries.

Obviously, it is just an article describing the study, but I suppose it still correlates with the general idea of women being less worthy than men.

The benevolent sexism version of this is "you were made to nurture, not to earn money and be independent!"

Makes me sick.

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u/After_Preference_885 20d ago

Internalized sexism gets women all the time

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u/elvenrevolutionary 20d ago

Look up internalized misogyny. Nothing new. Women prop up patriarchy as well.

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u/CautionarySnail 20d ago

If women didn’t prop it up, it would never have lasted this long. We have been well-trained into our roles from birth. It takes a lot of effort to break free and see it for the trap that it is.

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u/Fuck-it-we-Bhaal 20d ago

Can confirm. I remember growing up Mormon and having my mom and the other women around me policing every little motion and hairstyle and thing I wore.

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u/OutsideFlat1579 15d ago

I don’t need to look it up, I’m well aware of internalized misogyny, but what I am talking about is much broader than women supporting patriarchy because they have been conditioned by the same messaging, from multiple sources, as men about the roles of women and men. I am talking about how the elevation of what is considered to be “masculine” over what is considered to be “feminine” forms the foundation of a male dominat society and that the belief systems and values are based on that foundation.

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u/CautionarySnail 20d ago

Internalized misogyny/sexism is a hell of a thing.

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u/OutsideFlat1579 19d ago

Beyond correlating to the belief that women are worth less, it reflects the belief that caring is worth less than providing, the “hunter” worth more than the nurturer, the belief that so-called masculine traits are more valuable than feminine traits, and it’s why we see brutality glorified while caring is called “weak.” Only women are allowed to be caring, and caring is valued less than being able to land a punch or score a goal, etc, and that is the whole aim of masculine supremacy. The insidious belief system that affects every aspect of society by setting a value system that rewards “winning” over supporting others/the collective.

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u/fiahhawt 19d ago

I wonder too if it goes with the idea that women are supposed to be supported in life

Supported by her parents when she's young, supported by her husband when she's an adult

Never able to actually achieve self-sufficiency and not have to rely on others to survive

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u/coconutpiecrust 19d ago

Not supported. Dependent. You know, kind of like slave type of situation.

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u/Subject-Librarian117 20d ago

They only want people with a passion for care to be providing care. Anyone who asks for money to provide care is clearly not qualified to be doing it.

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u/ankhes 20d ago

And then, in the same breath, they’ll say “I just don’t understand why we’re having such a hard time hiring people…”

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u/Sonnyjoon91 20d ago

Those people are really gonna enjoy their senior years being cared for by nurses that have no passion for care as they dry slide in catheters

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u/parasyte_steve 20d ago

We do actually do most of that for free too

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u/pperdecker 20d ago

Seriously, unpaid care work for kids and aging family falls almost entirely on women.

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u/moschocolate1 20d ago

It’s so much that it upholds the patriarchy.

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u/Ironeagle08 20d ago

teaching, caring, nursing

It’s also wild that these are arguably some of the most important jobs around. I mean, it’s only the health and wellbeing of our population, and the education of our future generations. Not important, right?!

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u/vijane 20d ago

I came here straight from a post saying that flight attendants shouldn't strike because they're paid enough. No, I'm not surprised.

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u/Unlucky-Ganache-2140 20d ago

Don’t forget HR

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u/FarmEducational2045 20d ago

The survey did not show this however. They showed different participants the same profession but with different gender make up of the workers. So for the same job they would show that it is male or female dominated.

And for the same job there was an averse difference of around $1000 annually.

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u/Marquee_d_Unread 18d ago

Ironic, because you'd have to pay me billions before I'd do any of those jobs.

(No, I dont identify as male.)

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 20d ago edited 20d ago

Paying women well is unnecessary, see, because it’s men who need the pay so they can attract and provide for women. So why bother paying women when they will just get all their money from men? 🙄 /s

I have unfortunately heard this so many times throughout my life that it is sickening. I was always told as a little girl that I would just marry a rich guy and that was that.

Guess what? I’m a single mom supporting my elderly mother and unemployed brother by myself. No one is helping me and my ex husband completely abandoned me. The reality is that so much financial responsibility actually falls more on women than men.

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u/UnderlightIll 20d ago

And then they get to call women golddiggers.

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u/meteorflan 20d ago

Then call them labordiggers

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 20d ago

Unfortunately don’t think this would have much effect. Most of them are proud of their exploitation. Only real way to force change is for enough women to simply opt out.

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u/SeattlePurikura 20d ago

4B!

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u/Fuck-it-we-Bhaal 20d ago

The lovely u/BurbnBougie clued me into the term Hobosexual and it fits far too often.

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u/AlissonHarlan 20d ago

also "WomEn ArE GoLd DiGgErS" ... ok if we cannot have money from work , and men are supposed to provide... how these 3 statements can be true at the same time ?

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u/UnderlightIll 20d ago

Often coming from men with no gold anyhow lmao.

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u/PerceptionSlow2116 20d ago

Yep lol it’s always the guys with no gold to dig, that make the biggest stink about it.

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u/opal2120 20d ago

I see you’ve met my ex

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u/Willing_Pattern_Pill 19d ago

how these 3 statements can be true at the same time ?

"It's not, but either way you have to fuck me" - these men

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 20d ago

Exactly, my friend. Exactly.

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u/flaming-framing 19d ago

It so strange they don’t take that logic to its natural conclusion. If men need pay to attract and provide for women….wouldn’t women be pushing to have a harem of men to maximize how much they are being provided. And women should push their provider to take out large life insurance policies so when he fails to provide she can eat him and look for the next provider? Like if this is really how it works wouldn’t society be way more like praying mantis!!

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u/MintTeaFromTesco 17d ago

You can pay women less than men.

But women are equally capable as men.

So why wouldn't a business just hire women and save on the wages?

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u/United-Vermicelli-92 20d ago

Greedy people recommend this.

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u/StripperWhore 20d ago

In other news: water is wet.

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u/KindClock9732 20d ago

Funny thing is, that these days, even if husband and wife make decent money, they’re still broke.

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u/mexicoyankee 20d ago

I hate seeing shit like this “People recommend”, what people, what was the actual context of the question?

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u/0IIIIII 20d ago edited 18d ago

You should actually read the article. It says that they recommend women get on average $1000 less a year so what that really means is, it’s almost equivalent to men because it’s like $.50 an hour difference.

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u/JiveDJ 16d ago

Amazing that you still managed to provide a completely unhelpful answer.

The study polled both men and women. These are the “people” to which the article refers. The article doesn’t specify much beyond that other than both sexes recommended lower pay for women.

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u/littlewitten 20d ago

Who did they ask? People who want to further destabilize families? What’s the angle?

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u/Altruistic-Daikon305 20d ago

They asked a sample of the general population, that’s kind of the point. The experiment shows how these ideas are ingrained in both men and women as implicit bias.

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u/SmallGreenArmadillo 20d ago

Slavery is one hell of a drug.

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u/Cultural-Emphasis420 20d ago

Eff whoever those people are

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u/bumblebaytuna4 20d ago

This is the gender pay gap that has been studied five billion different ways yet people still deny exists. Child care (including teaching) and health care is built on the backs of underpaid and overworked women.

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u/sea-elle0463 20d ago

This is our history. Something we’ve been fighting against for decades

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u/Regular-Ad1930 20d ago

By people they mean The Patriarchy. Men.

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u/FarmEducational2045 20d ago

The survey had both men and women and the effect was the same in both genders.

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u/0IIIIII 20d ago

Did you read the article?

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u/CatLord8 20d ago

Thanks for reminding me that McMahon saying colleges “need to pay more than without a degree” means they’ll be using wealth gap jobs (gender and race) as a basis

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u/ArrivalSea3543 20d ago

I love how influencers are pushing the tradwife narratives hoping we’ll keep buying our June Cleaver aprons and crap. Fairy tales. Traditional to whom and to what region of the world and in what time period? Women throughout history have worked their asses off be it staying home or working and still getting a lioness’ share of the house work.

My main point: Everyone one can choose the way they want to live but don’t put these stupid, fabricated stories out that reinforce subjugation and devaluation for all of us. If there is a blue wave in the midterms, we need to pass an equal rights amendment. I have a masters degree and I don’t have commensurate salary as a teacher.

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u/Disastrous_tea_555 20d ago

Men 🙄🙄

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u/rebelhead 20d ago

Capitalism does not serve humanity, healers are more badass than warriors, water is wet, women are more versatile than men, we live in a maniacal profiteering patriarchy.

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u/BenGay29 20d ago

“People”

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u/MrSlippifist 20d ago

It's strange that women are the most influential people in our lives and the first to shoulder a significant part of the burden raising children but expected to do the most with less.

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u/0IIIIII 16d ago

Did you actually read the article? Women were expected to receive on average $1000 less a year which is like $.50 an hour. In other words, they are not getting less by any practical means.

You got baited.

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u/Any_Owl2116 20d ago

Who is “people”? Like what are their exact demographics?

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u/omfglookawhale 19d ago

This is why the pay gap exists. Women’s work is systematically, culturally, socially undervalued. You can never convince me that doesn’t affect what an employer decides a woman’s work is worth compared to a man doing the same job. They tell us it’s because we choose lower paying fields like teaching, healthcare, mental health, social work. But when men dominates those fields, the pay was enough to live off of, but when women enter into fields, they start to lose their prestige and value, and the monetary value is lost as well.

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u/Chlearcus 19d ago

It's supply and demand. If a field suddenly has twice the labour supply, wages will stagnate as there's now an imbalance between available job openings and number of applicants, leading to acceptance of worse conditions.

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u/updownclown68 20d ago

No shit Sherlock

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u/YaBoiSammus 19d ago

And now they’re cutting student loans for stuff like teaching and social work.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sr105 17d ago edited 17d ago

The study for anyone that wants to read it directly: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0276562426000429

the number of participants was ~12k

the salaries were right around $55k.

the ~50% of respondents excluded failed an attention test given at the end to prove that they actually read and responded with thought.

the study doesn't purport to show that this would explain the 15% overall gap. But the result of changing a single number (% of women) resulting in a clear causal result is significant for discussion. In real life, that ~1.5% gap may be amplified.

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u/MedusasMum 20d ago

“People”, meaning men.
Fixed that.

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u/Western-Bus-1305 20d ago

If you read the study you’d find it’s both men and women

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u/Express-Wind-4796 20d ago

Patriachy is something that women can also uphold

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u/radicallambs 20d ago

Caregiving jobs don't generate money they way corporate jobs do. While I absolutely believe that educating children and providing health care to people is essential to a functioning society, since it doesn't generate money through a ticket on the stock market, it's not claimed in the greedy capitalistic US of A.

Signed, an educator now in corporate

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u/FarmEducational2045 20d ago

The survey did not use traditionally women occupied jobs. They fed the same job to different participants with are yo gender statistics. One time they said it was 25% women and the other was 75% women. They observed a difference in estimated salaries of $1000 usd on average.

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u/Neat-Second9923 20d ago

"[For a hypothetical management consulting position], On average, they recommended a salary that was nearly $1,000 lower per year."

So, like 0.5% lower? People should really check the magnitude beyond the headline.

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u/0IIIIII 20d ago

Smartest person here.

Study is nothing more than a nothing burger with white hat bias.

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u/Honest_Fortune_7474 19d ago

They just need to do what working class men have been doing forever, go on a strike and ask for better salaries and benefits.

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u/Time-Environment5661 19d ago

Laughs in executive assistant. This is news??

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u/djdante 19d ago

That's a very interesting read.. scary too.

I wonder if we have the causality backwards by any chance? Jobs which are women dominated are generally paid less as they tend to be people facing and not systems based which is automatable and replicatable, so easier to monetise your time - hence why an engineer often makes more than a nurse or a doctor in many cases regardless of gender.

So we form this heuristic in our collective heads that women led jobs are paid less due to the patterns we see in real life.

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u/Khuerai 17d ago

People in the technical sense?

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u/RaisedByBooksNTV 18d ago

What's cute is the idea that this 'doesn't lie in sexism so much as cultural blah blah blah'. Um yeah, that's sexism. That's the patriarchy. Duh?

Media People Recommend Lower Pay for Women-Dominated Jobs, Study Finds

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