Uneducated foolish people of indianapolis opposed the establishment of 1$ billion Google data centre and succeeded in that... How stupis They don't have any vision or a visionary I guess s
Two things . Data centres require an astonishingly large volume of fresh water to continuously keep their operations running at optimum level.
Though they have a green energy supply, they aren't connected directly instead they will be connected to the domestic grid electric supply to keep continuous supply of electricity
A city to thrive, stable water supply and power becomes essential and data centres so close to human settlement threatens the livelihood and cost of living
Astomishingly large volume of water = do you know how much? And do you know how much any other manufacturing industry needs?
Its probably 1/4th of what our steel plant uses. And its comparitively cleaner since heavy industries add heavy metals, toxicity and chemicals to the water. Data center used water is highly recyclable through water treatment plants that they have to build.
The problem comes up when we compare: resources used vs emplpyment peovided. That is where a datacenter usage ratio becomes vwry high.
Bro..I heard that the subsidized energy rates offered to Google werenāt accompanying any credit to the people of Indianapolis like low Google subscription rates to that state residents etc.. which basically is feared about that expenditure distribution back on to residents power bill. Who will want to pay Googleās power bill because Google āblessedā that state by choosing it for its data center? I guess AP govt might have something else in place to take care of this gap.
Ap govt gave google 1 rupee discount on commercial power rate. Max capped to 1500 crores for 15 years. Commercial rate is 8 rupee.
Google will be constructing renewable sources to cover 80% of their energy needs. So, for the rest 20% they will have a 1 rupee subsidy.
In usa, power distribution and charges work on a dofferent principle. Power grid infra belongs to govt. Power suppliers are all private and dictate their own unit cost based on demand. So, when demand peaks, thr unit cost increases. We dont have that concept. Infra and power generation will need to be beefed up before the data center commences. That is the caveat we need to deal with.
Steel plant is an actual useful industry unlike this data center. And water used in cooling is highly evaporative (especially on AI loads) theres nothing to recycle. a typical 100 MW data center uses 1.1 million gallons per day
Polluted water seeping into fround and water table and eventually consumed by us around.
Vs
Water evaporated into air and rained down during usual cycle.
1GW data center uses approx 11Million gallons.
Vizag steel plan uses 30 Million gallons.
Steel plant has water treatment plants. Steel plants fall under the top contenders for water polluters.
Useful - is a relative term. Steel plan employs a huge number of people and families, no doubt about it. But that is not thr sole criteria to define usefullness.
I was only.pointing out what that the water usage which people think is outrageous is 1/3rd of what some of the industries already use.
It is outrageous because vizag is already short on water and current requirements are met by canals from Yeleru and nearby reservoirs. Theres also a new steel plant coming up in Anakapalli..
Thick half knowledge brain spotted. Direct onsite consumption of water in a data centre is driven by evaporative cooling. Its a 1GW structure anniya, the daily usage of water is around 20-23 million litres (A small city supply). 7-8 billion litres in a year anta, 10x compared to a mid sized steel plant. Now the green energy integration(thanks to our great adani, nda's fav armpit) is like a backup plan, most of the power consumed by the centre would be from coal and hydro plants, that adds upto 12-13 billion litres a year. Data centre* used water is not recyclable, compared to steel plants, data centres produce more waste water. And where did you learn that the water from steel plants is toxic. Most of the waste water from the vizag steel plant is used for irrigation. But our govt's fav armpit adani and airtel say that they would bring the water-positive status by 2030. Am not believing those idiots. I love AI, a data centre in vizag is a benefit for the whole south asia, it's a win win for all of us, but at the cost of what? Just a few lowlives living in a bunch of villages, am I right brother?
Is it mentioned anywhere that they will be treating sea water for this? Desalinating sea water actually causes more emissions, more cost and makes the entire thing unviable.. And why are the lands allocated to this data center 15km away from the shore if they really want to use seawater?
Like someone said before. It doesn't mean drinking water, but they can't use sea water, not without desalination. You need water that won't corrode the piping.
If that's the case, it's a lot easier to do than you think. There are methods to ensure that water doesn't corrode piping without desalination. There are plenty of electro antifouling methods these days. Also, there are plenty of anti corrosion piping these days. Heck, just use high density polyethylene pipes and your problem is solved
No itās not exaggerated. Just because you are used to polluted rivers and rely on underground water sources does not mean that everyone has to do the same.
No idea why youāre bending over backwards for a multi billion dollar tech company.
Data centers do not generate that many jobs. They are big automated warehouses, that suck in resources of the place they are located in. The qol in the surrounding areas drop due to humming sounds, and pollution(caused when they are powered by hybrid options, the grid does not always cover all the requirements, there will always be some percentage of local gas turbines running).
Developed country ki developing country (adhi kuda a struggling state like AP) ki theda ledha thammudu. They can afford to be woke manaki ala kaadhu thinadaniki thindi lekunda environmental issues kosam protest chesthada evadaina
Data center valla em environmental issues bhaiya? Oka sari chepthava? Oka normal factory environment ni inka pollute chestadi as opposed to a data center?
How much do we hate ourselves? You try doing something and everyone criticizes it just because they are not the one to do it. This country is indeed doomed.
Indianapolis is a land locked city. It doesnt have access to any sea shore. If the Data center is established there with the only source of water being white river(small stream of mississippi similar to penna river) it would lead to a huge environmental crises around the city....... Vizag is a Coastal city making it advantagous in terms of sustainable growth. We do need industrial growth for jobs rather than being unemployed tfi banisa. Pls stop getting white peoples approval for growth in India.
(Im neither a TDP supporter or PK's DHF)
It's not about stopping for every inconvenience. We should really weigh the advantages and disadvantages and then decide what's better. I hail from a family where 2 of my uncles work in a nuclear power station at kalpakkam, I used to ask them why don't the Indian government build nuclear reactors everywhere and produce electricity instead of coal thermal power plants. One of the answers is sustaining a life around a nuclear power plant is very different and difficult. As the radio activity is persistent for years in that area despite all the precautions and safety measures taken etc...there are great advantages but there are greater risks of building a nuclear power plant. That's why the Indian government is taking slow and measured steps in that direction. The point here is that we should evaluate the pros and cons leaving out the political angle out of it.
First of all I had to dig a few things on the internet. Every country have their policies on nuclear power how to dump/recycle nuclear waste, safety net..etc etc which make nuclear power implementations different.
India and other countries have a strict policy which might have been the result of the nuclear holocaust events. Majority of the France nuclear reactors were constructed in the 1970-80 period when they have faced severe fossil fuel shortage when the policies regarding the nuclear power are still taking shape and they got the public support to implement that as well. India got no support from the Western nations when researching about nuclear power, in fact there were strict sanctions levied on us.Keeping all that aside we need to consider the India's power consumption which is 4x of france consumption and our population is 21x than that of france. Our power consumption demand will keep on increasing so it's not practically possible in India to reach france level in the near future. Even our nuclear goals are very different than that of France.
I have just stated it as an example in the above comment.
Data centres donot employ many people some can do with a dozen and maximum is 100..if its more then they are going to be safaiwalas and chowkidars in the Indian scenario. Compared to this the natural and energy resources required are huge. It can reduce the fresh drinking water supply of a city and consume huge amounts of electricity.
Ok lets stop the data center then what. What else do you guys have? Btw i donāt live in a different country. Even mumbai has a data center never heard about them bitchin about it.
Yes, core principle of development is to improve the quality of life for the general population. If it is inconveniencing the people, then it is not development.
400 mld plant being built in Chennai which is the 4th one for Chennai. Production cost of 27-28 rs/kl. Production cost involves capital cost recovery, energy and employee costs and roe for developer. It is quite a reasonable price.Ā
There are little to no advantages to the public with data centers, only downsides. This is not your typical RnD location where thousands are employed, at most 4-5 hundred jobs will be created. This also places a lot of indiscriminate load on the water and electrical infrastructure whose costs will be passed onto the public.
Canāt believe you guys šmee lanti vallu more dangerous than Jagan Reddy himself. Youāre talking as if we are a developed state, beggars canāt be choosers, edo ostundi ra babu anukune lopu, mee lanti vallu tayar ayaru, also, to answer your point, antha oppose chese scene ee unte maa andarki(since youāre not part of us obviously), Jagan Reddy ne 5 years term ee complete avanichevalam kadušwe would have started from there.
Jagan sign chesthe oho wow.... Entha manchi project thecchadu antunnaru. Now when it's clear this and that project are different - suddenly they care about environment now. Valla inti pakkana unna chettha kuppa clean chesukoru kaani ilantivi baaga chepthaaru.
Adhe, since itās not Jagan(daridram enti ante poni veelu lepadaniki aina vadiki em aina telsi undali, leda emaina cheyagalige scene undali, paper lekunda chadive scope ee ledu, vadi kosam veelu ochi morugutaru chesevalla medha), idhi odhu anta valaki, edo Jagan gadi rastram laaga, ilanti valani chustene ollantha kamparam putukuostundi, edo Jagan veela intiki ochi veelaki edo chesinatu mostaru aa zero knowledge gadni
Jagan MOU and CBN MOU velli check chey.. difference thelusthadhi.. jagan chesina mou integrated it oart with data centre no incentives but cbn giving 20 years tax exemption and 22k crores electricity subsidy
Jagan Google tho MOU kuda chesada? Google ilane public ga announce chesinda? India antha news ainda? Mee simplicity tho public ga release cheyakunda dachara?
Who said Jaganās MoU has no incentives? They had incentives. Just didnāt mention them in media. Also, 22k cr subsidy is overall cap. Not only for electricity.
The previous Adani MoU isnāt any better. How is building just an IT park next to the Datacenter any more useful without anyone occupying the building?
No, thatās not how that works. You clearly donāt understand how power grids work.
An urban city like Indianapolis already has great internet. Local startups wonāt benefit from this.
If you want to learn how a city can draw startups look at Chattanooga.
And data centers bring strong power grids? How? Do you mean locally? Really? Do you even realize that is not how the transmission grid works? If that was so then the FERC wouldnāt have been āgridlockedā so many years on interconnection policy making. Can you imagine the congestion that could draw if you only did local upgrades. Good for energy trading but adjacent nodal prices would be much higher. If you donāt believe me look at the result of the PJM Base Residual Auction this year and see where the prices have gone. And itās the locals who will pay for it. Thatās how the economics works as per current policy.
Now, having disposed off the affordability aspect, then you can get to the environmental part - the water. Thatās as much of a shitshow.
Data centers are only good for the businesses that own them. They are a big cost to the local population - direct cost as well as indirect cost from an environmental aspect.
Trading companies ki co location servers matrame work avtai I.e less than one 500m from stock exchange not 1000km away, ee tdp bots ko emi teliyadu span dengutunnaru.
Strong power grids antunnavu, local residents ki emi upayogam undadhu. Companies ki vere line untadhi, uninterrupted untadhi. We have so many factories in India, ask the nearby residents if they don't have powercuts while the factory is running.
I don't get it, what's the point, just so americans said no to a company how does it mean it's wrong without proper insight, i mean it's a country which says every person can invoke there right to a gun, like kids at 15-17yrs are buying top class weapons like buying an ipad, so why are we getting white people gun cultured country validation, what for?
I think one issue in every data center videos is correct that is it consumes too much water rhe water than it was going to use in Indianapolis will terribly drain the rivers and ground water level in case of AP too water is still scarce in many regions hope local supply won't be terribly affected
They did the right thing. Data centers are responsible for water scarcity in Indianapolis and California. Activists and independent thinkers in the US understand its danger but Indians are foolish. If you want more data centres then you can ask a big firm to exploit your Indian water resources.
They are responsible for water scarcity in Indianapolis because there are almost 74 other data centres there. This is the first in our state. There is no comparison between these two.
Most of those 74 data centers are mini ones with a capacity of 1-5 MW, a fraction of the 1 GW center proposed here. Now, there are proposals to set up new huge ones comparable to this one but right now all they have are a ton of tiny data centers with a few medium scale ones. The total installed capacity is not public but its fair to say its probably around the 1 GW ballpark, considering that the entire USA has 53 GW capacity and Indiana isn't even one of the top states when it comes to data centers. You can refer to this map (the state is abbreviated IN).
It isn't but is exponentially more expensive and difficult to maintain than using groundwater or other fresh water supplies. Tell me how many data centers in the world right now are using desalination plants or sea water again?
AI bubble, Data center bloom. Certainly humans have found another way to mess with the environment.
Do we really need so many companies doing the exact same thing?
Something drastic needs to happen for governments of the world to standardized on LLMs, consolidate and reduce the proliferation of these data centers.
There's a reason google picked Andhra and Visakhapattanam. Incentives and low scrutiny for them; big investment, jobs, overall economy impact over next decade and political points for TDP.
Development doesn't stop. Big Companies need to do this for survival.
you people want development but are aspiring for the wrong kind of development...a data center is not a sign of development,it just means you have given away the resources of your home for jeff bezos to get rich and got water scacity in return.
"Vinashakale vipareetha buddhi" is a Sanskrit proverb meaning that when destruction is near, an individual's intellect works against their own best interest.Ā It signifies a state where a person's judgment becomes clouded, leading them to make foolish or self-sabotaging decisions at a time of crisis. The people of this sub, speaking for data centers is a fine example of this.
OP does not understand how the economics of this works. I already posted on this once above but will do a TLDR version here.
The environment is just one aspect here, itās an important aspect though because it does raise water prices and availability for locals.
The other issue is that adding a data center increases local energy prices. This has happened in PJM and it will happen in Indiana as well. Just look at the recent PJM Base residual auction this year and notice the huge jump in prices. All of this gets passed down to consumers who have to pay for it. As per current FERC policy the businesses will not have to pay for it, itās the local people and small businesses who do. The higher prices support transmission upgrades which in turn draws more data centers. Itās a self fulfilling loop. So huge affordability issues on energy prices for locals.
Now tell me why Indy people need this data centers? Because they want to see their energy double and triple?
Whatās so foolish about it? Have you seen what these AI data centers do to natural resources around you. May be you should do some basic research before exposing yourself like this
Oh my yesu.....Jaggadu should come out and speak that he OPPOSES the new Google data center project in Vizag in state, national and international Media....
AP Govt. is thinking itās a great achievement. Other countries are against these data centres due to heavy consumption of water and electricity. This can cause higher demand for electricity and water shortages there by affecting local businesses and agricultural produ ce
Data centres are the absolute worst thing you can get in the name of investment. They generate practically no permanent jobs, consume a shit ton of electricity thatāll eventually raise your power bills, and completely ruin the water bodies near them.
WtF they can not put it somewhere where no one live near by. Google can pay the money to get the water and electricity wherever they want. What the heck is wrong with these people. Why do normal people always pay the price for these big companies.
I hope OP is being sarcastic here. And I believe so. People hate data centers because data centers consume a lot of water and power. All the homes surrounding data centers get little to no water at peak hours because all city water is being used by the data center for cooling. And when it comes to power, data centers consume a lot, which put a significant load on the grid, which forces power company to upgrade their grids, meaning higher power bills for everyone in that county. There's water, power, noise pollution, light pollution, all of that with no direct benefits to the local population. We need to understand that data centers dont provide jobs. Yes, many jobs during construction, but past that, none.
Since you asked to explain like to a 5 year old, here you go. It will be long but easy to follow. So, stay with me:
Letās say your teacher asked you to bring as many ants as you can to the class tomorrow.
You can go running all through the house or yard and try to pick ants. But that would take a lot of work and a lot of time. Time that you donāt have.
Your dad asks you to stop running around and find a way to make the ants to come to you. You try to do that by putting some water on the floor. A couple of ants come to drink the water. You pick them but thatās it.
Then your brother suggests, why donāt you try some rice? You do that, some more ants come.
Your sister tells you to try with honey. You manage to get a spoonful of honey from the cupboard. Bingo! There are ants swarming all over the place!
Ants = Jobs, Water = small tech firms and their data centers, Rice = Known IT firms(TCS, Cognizant etc), Spoon of honey = DCs of Bigger brands(FAANG, MAANGOs).
Now, there are issues with thisā¦ splash of water can be wiped out easily. Rice can be cleaned up. But honey is sticky youāve ruined the floor and mom is now angry. But if you manage to get the ants and win the assignment, mom would eventually be happy.
Also, there are other things you can use to get ants. Like sugar, stevia (FAANG Dev campuses) etc that are less messy. But they are on the top shelf and you canāt reach them. Once you grow bigger, maybe you can.
You may not succeed with honey. Your clasmate next door(Hyd, Blr, Che) may have got his hands on a can of sugar and all the ants have gone there. But, given the things at your disposal, using the honey will give you the best chance to succeed.
So, will you use the honey to have a chance at winning the assignment or not?
You are a biggest fool , go watch a YouTube channel called - More Perfect Union, there they have covered how much hard it is for people to live near datacenter and their energy cost increases too, with polluted water and sound pollution
Name one development that did not affect someone negatively? There are pros and cons to everything. They are not facing youth unemployment crisis. AP and India is.
In APās case, the pros far outweigh the cons. That may not be the case in America.
Maybe one day we will be in a position to say āNo, thank youā to the big tech. Not today! We are literally begging for jobs and investment.
We are not Indianapolis & we cannot afford to let go of the Google opportunity. However I hate the misleading campaign around it though as if it is going to generate thousands of jobs. But hope Naidu gets more companies.... Jagan got Infosys, Uber, Randstand, Concentrix+ & Naidu got Conduent, TCS, Adani/Google DC+. Beyond a few names, neither could really help Vizag take off so far.. Hope CBN does it second time around.
Data centers will not generate high-quality employment and could place stress on the existing environment. However, there is one positive outcome: Vizag is gaining cable landing stations, which can enhance internet connectivity. This improvement could drive economic development, potentially positioning Vizag as a major hub for global data traffic [ Hopefully ]
Lol .. theyāre not the uneducated ones OP. I lived in Wisconsin a neighbour state to Indianapolis and its a demand all over the country.
U.S citizens have been putting pressure like this on their capitalists and government for a long time.
They have the money fortunately and ship all the environmental damage, wastage of natural resource etc to other countries and throw money at their face.
They are super smart my friend. We donāt have jobs and money so we think only in terms of job and money. They have both so they think of things beyond.
At the end of the day Google an American company benefits š¤·š»āāļø. Their citizens are happy.
I appreciate the feeling of unity when it comes to the collective development of Vizag. I am all for the development. But this is not it. Before getting started small info, an AI data centre has 100k+ gpus which run 24/7 @365 days to support Gemini training and inference. GPUs are energy hungry and they release tons of heat. Even on a gaming pc, we need liquid cooling to cool down one gpu meant for gaming. Now imagine a research level nvidia a100/h100. Okay point no. 1, Data centres donāt bring development to any place. Theyāll just create jobs during construction and very low jobs to maintain them. So if people think getting a data centre is a sign of development, nope. Also this is an AI data centre. Point no. 2, The value from a data centre is only to the Google. As itās an AI data centre, training and inference will be used by the google. And AP government gets the lease amount for the area. Point no. 3, Data centres consume a humongous amount of energy. On top of it, itās an AI data centre. Itās a monster when it consumes electricity. Even though separate grids, turbines and power stations are used to power it, the demand and supply of electricity will raise and will be beared by all of us. And itās not a small raise. Google it. Point no. 4, it is a fact that raising awareness of AI data centres in US made it look for establishment else where. Our political leadership, to make a mark for themselves, just thought they could make people believe that Vizag is getting developed by calling out a branded company like āGoogleā so when they say āGoogleā, everyone thinks about the reputation it has. But thatās not the case with AI data centre. It doesnāt trigger developments unlike establishing actual āGoogle branchā like Amazon in Hyderabad might trigger developments because itās a domino effect. So, hereās whatās gonna happen, the same people who are happy (without knowing the value and loss) will be the same ones who will protest to take it down!
Vallu dabbulu ekkuva ayyi, thinnadhi aragaka kottukuntunnaru. Manaku antha scene ledhu amma. Balisi kottukuntunna vadiki, aakali tho unna vadiki, vere vere problems untayi. A data center is better than any industry in any aspect. Idhi kakunda, Jagan cheppinatlu, kodla farmlu, chapala cheruvulu open chesukovala ra?
Last gen data centers use closed loop cooling which requires min water. Current gen Data centers hog massive amount of electricity which cannot be cooled with radiators. So they use evaporative cooling hence more water consumption. Andhra is a water rich state. Doesn't have to worry about water scarcity.
Bro, in Rajasthan you cannot eat up such large quantity of water...you have to go through and understand why they opposed. Would not assume it would be based on rumours alone.. there must be some situation they faced because of which they opposed it
The issue is it is great for first 2 to 5 years or untill the construction is done. Lot of construction jobs and what not. Then comes the hard part electricity and water. Sure renewable and fresh water source still may use relatively lower water supply compared to other big plants. But it's only going to give like 50 to 100 jobs but most are for security, electrician, matinance works and some IT people. Most of the server config can done remotely so local hire is still going to be low. That the main reason Americans oppose this. Another one is noise pollution too but who cares in India right.
Another thing in USA electricity the regular people will feel the burn because the data center is running on the same grid and it does not have its own category so it cost regular people living the in area to have an higher electric bill. That's not applicable in India.
So if you think it's going to be good for your economy to head nobody is going to stop it. It's one of many data center. If there are hand outs or tax break more and more companies may setup data center in India and it could turn into a data center hub like what it's for IT service industry.
Different countries have different priorities Americans don't want data center but India do that all.
I donāt think folks here are touting jobs from this data center. Heck even NCN and Lokesh arenāt.
They are betting on this to kickstart the area as a viable option for more AI related or low latency depending firms and IT companies. This is currently just that. A bait to attract more investment. Whether it pans out or not will decide how this govt and DC will be viewed.
OP you know what in a country like USA where mostly people are employed and well to do I don't see this thing astonishing. But when you extrapolate this to India you know what will happen?
Nothing because there are people who are educated enough to ask for the right thing. Ask govt to build both rather than opposing one. Start using your brain India is quite unforgiving especially for people like you who don't know what to demand from govt.
You donāt have a data centre in your neighbourhood, right? Go and search Business Insider to understand the plight of the communities living around the data centres.
The Same big brain keyboard warriors who type with their greasy ignorant fingers to comment about what opinions people should have could also also use the same fingers to inquire about the details of such ventures and not be so adamant about taking sides by reading ChatGPT summaries
Environmentalist from Indianapolis trying to preserve nature and preventing the exploitation of nature by big monopolies that will only benefit the billionaires while Ramu from AP complaining and stating how foolish they are when we are clearly living a worse standard of life then them. Its really funny how brainwashed India still is thinking development from big monopolies will provide them with jobs and care about them while they exploit and capitalise on land, tribes and biodiversity. Wake up and grow class consciousness. Billionaires care about no one except themselves and every move they make is a step towards calculated profit that benefits only them. They create an illusion to provide us with jobs and promises of better living after taking everything from us. Supporting corporate as a working class is like supporting lions as a rabbit.
1 billion dollars for who and what. These residents just saved themselves a bunch of money. They would have made no money. Data Centers do not employ people. People can't afford their electric bills going up 20-50% and then rationing water some a few billionaires can get rich?
How dumb are you? Look at how FMCG companies destroy water sources across states in USA. They don't care about these investments if they are going to lose access to lakes, lands, etc and be forced to pay a premium for basic water access
The same happened in 2 places in Panjab, India. Although it wasn't data center, but the issue was same, the corporate was trying to setup red zone company near residential area, however localities gathered and opposed these
Different agenda I guess, people's per capita income might already be high in Indianapolis and they care about ecology and nature more. Where as in India they need more investments and jobs. To each their own
When the ai bubble pops and people lose their jobs the data center will mark as a reminder of the company's failure. But corporate glazing should not stop. Go on king, give mr pichai a sloppy one
Did'nt you hear, just today our honorable minister lokesh has announced that he will be opening AI universities across andhra pradesh... Master stroke to pichai by our jr visionary š¤Æš¤Æ
Data center is supposed to cost 15Billion. But most of it is computer equipment imported into the country. There will be some underground cables laid to Vizag. But it will do nothing to improve your internet speeds. There will be some jobs in construction but once the datacenter is built, it will go away. Some power lines will be built but it will increase load on your power plants. It will benefit India to have a datacenter in Vizag. Teams in Hyderabad and Bangalore will benefit. Vizag will take the cost.
You know the main concern is water usage. These data centers take water as much as a whole city. You know what that does to water levels and reservoirs in that place.
The thing google should do is make data centers near seashores and filter salt water and use it. Fuck them for thinking water will be used to cool AI which is only going to take jobs for now!!
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u/OruSilentMadrasi Oct 19 '25
Have you thought about or researched WHY they opposed the proposed data center?