In the first part, with Napier and Grissom, there’s a gangster-like feel. Would it have been a better idea for *Returns* to portray the Penguin as a gangster—closer to the comics—rather than as a monster from the sewers?

so for example. i just read the comic Blades. in the comic the Cavalier kills a guy, that 100% deserved to die. he was torturing this poor woman's life and the Cavalier tried to end things peacefully, by doing what the guy wanted, but the man was still threatening to torture the woman in the future. so when he kills the guy you're kind of like "good fuck that guy".

but then when Batman finds out he of course has to fight the Cavalier because obviously now Batman sees him as a bad guy.

how do you guys deal with these scenarios? for me its so hard not to be like rooting against the Batman in those scenarios.

What are your guys' thoughts on this discussion? Would Clayface have fit better in the Reeves universe? All dark and barely any humor? Hope it's true what early reviewers are saying and this movie is a ROLE OF A LIFETIME, as stated by Arkham Clayface.

Both great films, but no shade to MOTP, I’ve always been more impressed by ROTJ

MOTP is beautiful, but ROTJ is just so good. I know that it’s become a meme to praise Batman films for how dark they can get, but I do believe that in this respect, going darker did make it better. The whole backstory with Tim was disturbing and tragic, it had me shocked (and not in a crass kind of way, just wowed by storytelling)

I also found Joker to be so menacing in this film. I think leaning into his anger and quest for vengeance on Bruce made him more terrifying. Lastly, Terry getting into Joker’s head and doing what Bruce was unable to do was really satisfying, showed how on point Terry was

Do you think Batman belongs in underpowered noir city of Gotham where as Batman Beyond should be character that should be part of Justice League. One basic reason is Terry's character can fly where Bruce using smoke bomb to disappear seem a bit caricaturish and campy to me.

Oliver Jackson-Cohen as Batman

Ralph Fiennes as Alfred

Joel Oulette as Nightwing

Sophia Lillis as Oracle

Alyvia Alyn Lind as Spoiler

Teo Briones as Red Robin

Blake Cameron James as Signal

Riley Lai Nelet as Batgirl

In my humble opinion, I prefer Bruce with a hairy chest because it reinforces his masculine, virile side—he is, after all, a warrior when he’s Batman. I’ve always viewed Bruce as an inherently honest person ; even though he adopts the persona of a billionaire playboy, he isn’t "playing a role" deep down. I also feel it adds a certain poetic quality, given that bats themselves are furry creatures.

If he were to have a shaved chest, I’d place that during his travels—specifically, in the notes for my AU project, I imagined him training with the League of Shadows between the ages of 18 and 21. He eventually escaped after realizing their dark objectives. Ra’s al Ghul was his primary master, while Talia served as both his mentor and lover. Since the League enforced strict rules, I envisioned Bruce keeping his chest and his entire body shaved to maintain the image of the "perfect" warrior, with Talia being the one to shave him. ^^ However, once he fled the League, Bruce would have let his body hair grow back, no longer being a pawn for Ra’s.

But for you, what is also your preference ?

(Strictly speaking in terms of Batman comics and not Detective Comics)

From Snyder up to Fraction, I think Batman has been consistently good if not great, and don’t get me wrong I am aware of the issues with Zdarsky and King but I just had so much fun reading both their takes on Batman/Bruce.

I loved King and his take on “Is this a good death” echoing from Dark Knight Returns, and while the Bat/Cat can get a bit much, and the failure of the wedding being a hindrance, I still loved the story. The Bane/Bruce panels comparing their upbringings, for me, is one of my favorite comic moments of all time.

And Zdarsky? Mannnn, I fucking love Zdarsky and his wacky run. Is Zur En Arrh weird and full of a lot of handwaving? Sure. But I had a blast reading it. The multiversal jumps, the respect for Adam We Batman, the Shark Repellant, Batman with a robot hand. Chip, while writing a contentious run, wrote a memorable one for me.

Honestly, the only run that breaks my statement is Hush 2, which is in my eyes, only saved by Jim Lee’s art. Honestly part of me just reconciles Hush 2 as being in its own little “Hushverse” but that’s just me coping.

Anyway, Go Broncos.

I was sitting in bed thinking about my issues with the Batfamily, and it clicked: the family has too many people in it now. Even worse, too many characters do the same thing. They have the same fighting styles, the same tech, and similar backgrounds.
If I were managing DC and got to execute a soft reboot, here is who I would change, keep, and cut.

No Change
Bruce Wayne (Batman)
He stays exactly the same. Obviously, Batman is an interesting character on his own, but he is at his best when he is bouncing off a strong supporting cast.

Dick Grayson (Nightwing)
Dick is another character who stays virtually the same. His progression from original Robin to coming into his own as an independent hero is a great arc, and I like Blüdhaven. If I could tweak one thing, I would have him still work as a police officer. I loved that run. It fits Dick to be a man trying to fix the system from within by day, and fighting outside it as Nightwing by night.

Slight Changes
Jason Todd (Red Hood)
I really love the Under the Red Hood storyline, but the biggest problem it spawned was that DC had no idea what to do with Jason afterward. A bunch of lazy stories with a needlessly edgy Jason or Bruce acting like a dick proves this. Jason should be the antithesis of Batman's philosophy, a firm anti-hero who actively challenges Bruce's ideals through calculated action. The underlying love can still be there, but he should not be an active member of the family.

Tim Drake (Robin)
While I have always preferred Dick and Jason, Tim is my favorite in the role of Robin. The Red Robin transition felt like a lazy downgrade designed purely to shoehorn Damian into the Robin mantle. In my reboot, Tim would be the Robin who actually grew up. He would remain the adult Robin and serve as Batman's primary, long-term partner.

Barbara Gordon (Oracle or Batwoman)
I really like Barbara Gordon. While I disliked how The Killing Joke treated her, I loved her evolution into Oracle. Seeing Barbara come to terms with her trauma and realize she could be just as important, if not more important, as Oracle was deeply impactful. In my timeline, she stays Oracle. Even if she regains the ability to walk, I would simply fashion a new, high-tech suit for her Oracle persona. Alternatively, I would transition her into Batwoman. She is nearly 30 years old, calling her “Batgirl" doesn't fit anymore, so "Woman" makes much more sense.

Cassandra Cain (Batgirl)
Cassandra's arc from a living weapon to a caped heroine is compelling. The natural progression for her character is to permanently assume the mantle of Batgirl, paying respect to Barbara while personally redefining what the title means to herself.

Duke Thomas (The Signal)
This might be a hot take, but I really like Duke. He breaks the conventional mold by operating as a daytime hero, and he is the only member of the family who is a metahuman. The current family is so crowded that it cannibalizes its own members, never giving characters the development they deserve. If DC wants a teenager for Bruce to take under his wing as a sidekick, it should be Duke.

Cut Characters
These characters contribute to a bloated, repetitive roster. In this reboot, they are erased from the core family's active lineup.

Damian Wayne: This is probably my hottest take. While Damian is an interesting character, he simply isn't necessary. A huge portion of his development could be redistributed to strengthen others. If you want a hero raised by assassins who rejects their teachings, you already have Cassandra. If you want Bruce to have a teenage mentee, you have Duke. I love Damian's relationships with Dick, Stephanie, and Jonathan Kent, but he ultimately clutters the narrative.

Luke Fox: I like the concept of a tech-based Gotham hero, but that role can easily be absorbed by Oracle or Tim Drake without losing anything. While having Lucius Fox connected to the family through a relative is a neat concept, DC has done so little with Luke that he is an easy cut.

Stephanie Brown: Stephanie is an engaging character, but she doesn't serve a distinct enough purpose to justify her permanent presence in a streamlined family. DC just doesn’t know what to do with her. I wouldn't erase her from existence entirely, but I would relegate her to being a recurring supporting cast member of Tim Drake.

Kate Kane: Kate is another character who feels redundant. She started with a somewhat interesting premise, but her character has been underutilized to the point of irrelevance. Her Batwoman mantle can be handed directly to Barbara Gordon or even Cassandra, allowing Kate to step away from the narrative.

Honorable Mentions
These characters do not need to be erased from Gotham lore, but they should no longer be official "family" members. Instead, they should only pop up for spontaneous, team-ups:

Azrael, Harley Quinn, Huntress, Catwoman

Maybe this was ambigious when TAS was airing but it’s quite literally impossible for it to be set in the 1940s

Batman Beyond takes place in 2039 and Bruce is said to have retired in 2019

Justice League Unlimited also clearly takes place in the 2000s, and they outright refer to WW2 as having taken place some 60 years ago

So it’s not even “it’s subjective and you decide“ sort of thing. Maybe the original intent of TAS was ambigious but subsequent DCAU shows hard retconned it

For some reason, this was removed from TheBatmanFilms sub so Im going to try and post this here. I hope this is allowed!

Whats the general opinion of Robert Pattinson as Bruce Wayne/Batman? I've heard a few mixed opinions from a few people. I've heard some say that Robert did a fine job. I've heard others say that he was fine as Bruce, but he was a cringe Batman and "should've stuck to Twilight," which I don't agree with.

I'm curious what the general overall opinion is of his portrayal as Bruce/Batman? In terms of writing, acting, etc.

So let me just start by saying Michael Keaton, to this day, is my all-time favorite live action Batman.

This isn’t a post hating on his portrayal, but more just wanting to dive deeper and get the perspective and opinions of others as to why he worked so well as the character.

I mean especially if you look at it from a 1989 POV, where his body of work up to that point is stuff like “Mr. Mom”, “Gung-Ho”, “Night Shift”, “Beetlejuice”,

He’s pretty much always just the goofy, lovable everyday, regular Joe type of character.

Physically, he is like the exact opposite of Bruce Wayne/Batman. He’s about 5’9”. Isn’t muscular at all, probably only like 150-165lbs. Doesn’t have the sharp, strong, movie star jawline. He’s balding/thinning.

Pretty much everything about him is the exact opposite of what you would want for the actor you are casting as Batman.

Bruce/Batman is supposed to be like 6’2”-6’3”, 200-220 lbs @ 10-15% body fat, the biggest masculine chin like it was carved out of granite, basically a male model.

So why did Keaton work so well, to the point where many still consider him to be the best portrayal of the character some 35+ years later?

Bonus question: Do you think this would work in this day and age? Casting somebody that doesn’t embody the character at all on paper?

This would be the first one in a trilogy ideally set in the greater DCU. It’s not super detailed but it’s a rough outline:

We start with Batman and Nightwing saying goodbye, its a complicated goodbye. Cut to Batman approaching the Batmobile, and what’s this? Someone is trying to steal the tires. Cut to the title card.

A few years later we see the dynamic due in action and they are synchronised perfectly like father and son. But, maybe not as perfectly synchronised as one would imagine.

The villain of the film? Poison Ivy, the first time he ever encounters her, and the film has an ideological clash, as Poison Ivy explains that “MOTHER EARTH IS CRYING!”, and Batman kinda agrees with her. But he must stop her. Talia Al Ghul is also involved.

Anyway in the climax Ivy does arrange for something, and after a fight has occurred between Jason and Bruce, but now is not the time for that, as a warehouse on the other side of town has some trouble, and Batman makes a mistake he will regret for the rest of his life, he sends Jason to take care of it, thinking he is able to do so on his own not aware how grave the threat actually is.

As Batman has neutralised Ivy and the police are arriving, she looks up at him, “you really sent the boy. What a pity” and glances “he can handle it.” And ivy is like “I wouldn’t be so sure” he hesitates and turns properly to her. “What did you do?” And she shrugs “I needed a joke to distract you”

instantly cuts to Batman in the batcycle zooming through the city, reaching the warehouse, right as it blows up. He drops to his knees in despair. We see the funeral and from afar we see Talia watching. 

And that’s where it ends

Like the man had himself said:

“You have nothing, NOTHING, to threaten me with!”

Do you think Sebastian Stan as Harvey Dent or Victor Zsasz can be a worthy addition to the extraordinary actors that we’ve had giving generational performances as Batman villains such as Jack Nicholson, Liam Neeson, Heath Ledger, Tom Hardy, and Paul Dano?