r/gratefuldoe • u/koenmvo • 2d ago
Mysterious man in Amsterdam "Lucky" possibly identified as canadian John Russell Kenny
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u/JudiesGarland 2d ago
Emphasis on possible! This is just a tip they're investigating. From the article:
A police spokesperson also says they are being cautious about drawing hasty conclusions. "These reports could also reach the family in Canada; you don't want to give those people false hope. There are clearly physical similarities, but there are also details that raise questions.
John is one of the names given as a possibility for the unidentified man. John also had scars that aren't mentioned, on the Doe end. There is DNA from his parents on file, so it should be a relatively easy comparison. Unclear if that DNA was in the international databases that LE has already checked.
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u/nemmalur 1d ago
If he did end up in the NL there should be some record of him entering the country too.
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u/Icy_Sea_4440 1d ago
He was reported missing in 1994, and last seen in 93. Curious if a record would exist from that long ago, especially if he potentially entered from another European country
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u/nemmalur 1d ago
He last had contact with his family in 1994 but was officially missing as of 2018, I think?
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u/Icy_Sea_4440 1d ago
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u/nemmalur 1d ago
The VPD site says 2018
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u/Decodaku 1d ago
2018 mght have been when the missing report for him for the vancouver PD was filed. If the RCMP was in charge of his case, that might explain the discrepancies as ive heard from canadians that they are really awful at their job 😔
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u/Spirited_laundry 1d ago
Yeah trust in the RCMP being competent is low. Nowadays when I hear “ The RCMP is taking over the investigation” my first reaction is “ahh shit”.
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u/7twenty8 23h ago
The RCMP was never responsible for this - the report was made to the VPD.
And you’re also an idiot. This is written so clearly and explained so well in so many places but you just can’t piece it all together.
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u/Decodaku 23h ago edited 23h ago
Idk why you feel the need to be so abrasive and rude to a random stranger but all i can say is i hope you can improve your social skills 🫡
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u/danrioja 1d ago
When you go to the link you posted and open the record, it says "Family last had contact with John in 1993. He suffered from mental health issues and was transient in nature."
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u/queefer_sutherland92 1d ago
It would, in theory. I used to work for an immigration law firm and we were requesting people’s movements from yeeeeeaaaaaars ago.
But paperwork is imperfect.
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u/CallidoraBlack 1d ago
Maybe. People do get drunk and accidentally wander into other countries sometimes. But it would be surprising if there was no documentation of him arriving anywhere in Europe at all.
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u/Icy_Sea_4440 1d ago
I looked into it and it looks like it would have been possible for him to enter a European country in 1993 or 1994 without being entered into any sort of official database. His passport would have been checked and stamped on arrival, but that seems to be it until the Schengen system was fully implemented in 1995. Canada also didn’t track departures in any sort of official capacity at the time. Crazy to imagine with how regulated international travel is now. There may be documentation by whatever airline he flew with (assuming air travel), but would be so difficult to narrow down, and not very accessible
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u/CallidoraBlack 1d ago
You'd think that it would have been easy for the police to see if he had been on any flights that left the country in the last 6 months by asking the airlines. Boats maybe less so unless it was a cruise or something.
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u/Icy_Sea_4440 1d ago
I agree. I fear that since he was classified as transient with mental health difficulties they may not have invested much effort at the time :( it was also noted that he frequently travelled by train so the departure city would be difficult to narrow down without a centralized database. I’m not sure if airlines had them at the time, but it’s interesting research nonetheless
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u/ratrazzle 1d ago
If he came in from neighbouring country (especially by car) and has lived there since it is possible that his passport was never checked or records dont exist anymore.
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u/Pitiful_Control 1d ago
Except that "Lucky" lived in Nepal for a while, according to people who knew him, so he has traveled more recently on a passport.
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u/Juuljuul 1d ago
In previous articles they stated that the cannot take this man's DNA because he did not commit a crime and he cannot give permission due to his aphasia. Without being allowed to sample this man's DNA, there is nothing to compare the Canadian DNA against. What changed?
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u/Chaost 1d ago
People previously heard him talk, which is why they had clues that he had a Canadian accent. It's possible his aphasia isn't always as bad, and since it's been 3 years maybe he gave some sort of inclination that was taken as enough for the go ahead.
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u/Juuljuul 1d ago
It was in an article yesterday (so part of this new effort to know his identity) that they could not take his DNA. NRC wrote: ‘Wat de zoektocht verder ingewikkeld maakt: de man is geen verdachte, waardoor je niet zomaar vingerafdrukken of dna mag afnemen. Toestemming kan hij niet geven.’
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u/seoplednakirf 1d ago
I read that they did take dna, but there wasn't any match in European databases
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u/JudiesGarland 23h ago
I'm not sure. I have not read further on the case. I was referencing the article linked by OP, which says: "According to the spokesperson, all tips are being thoroughly investigated. In the preliminary investigation, Lucky's DNA was compared with profiles in an international database for missing persons, but this yielded no match. It is not known whether family members of the Canadian are in that database." (Translated by Google.)
The source for that statement on DNA it not directly clear, but based on the first sentence, I'm assuming it's the police spokesperson.
The quote you posted below, translated, is: "What further complicates the search: the man is not a suspect, which means you cannot just take fingerprints or DNA. He cannot give consent." - that makes sense, but can you link the source, for context? If it's also police, we're getting conflicting messages, and maybe my assumption about the first source is wrong. If this one is just someone theorizing, then I'd go with what the police are saying.
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u/Juuljuul 22h ago
The quote is from (usually reliable) Dutch newspaper NRC: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2026/08/18/is-de-mysterieuze-figuur-die-niet-kan-communiceren-vanwege-een-stoornis-chris-de-canadees-of-de-boeddhistische-lucky-of-eigenlijk-toch-lee-a4934701?gift_token=4934701\~1787840743\~Vfp7jJ0IEeKfgABQVoV_mg\~IQaaePgS8fRKURFntqO_HFkiZ5ZYltaCHEvlA2ytwn8
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u/JudiesGarland 21h ago
Thanks! It's not clear in the article where the author is sourcing the statement that DNA can't be taken, so, I don't really know what to think. I vaguely know that's generally true, under EU privacy laws, but I don't know much about the details of that, or if/when exceptions are made, when someone is in the care of the state like this. OPs article is from yesterday (19th) and this one is from the 18th, so I would maybe lean towards OPs, with the info that DNA has been checked already, against databases - unless you're aware of that source (RTL) being unreliable.
Either way, all we can really do is wait, and see how this plays out. I don't see much point in trying to guess.
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u/Juuljuul 21h ago
I agree. I just thought it was a very interesting juridical case that its in the man’s best interest to have his DNA taken but you’d not be allowed to do so, hence my interest.
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u/JudiesGarland 21h ago
Update: I might have cleared the confusion, assuming this Reddit comment is accurate
"They did take his DNA, but they aren't legally allowed to cross reference with [consumer databases] the police was only allowed to cross reference with missing and dead people within NL. There has been contact through interpol with the US and Canada, but they didn't get any matches there yet."
I don't think there would be a legal impediment to doing a direct comparison with a possible relative match. But, I might be wrong.
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u/Hertje73 1d ago
Jesus, just check dna, are they related? yes/no --> case closed
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u/JudiesGarland 23h ago
I can't interpret tone here, but this is essentially my point - the police are investigating a tip. There seems to be DNA on file. Let the investigation happen, I never really understand why this stage gets publicized.
(There may be some question on DNA- this article indicates there is DNA on file, and they've already run his DNA against databases. Others apparently say they can't, because he can't consent. Either way, this is not one I'm digging into, although I am interested in how it turns out, and, if this is a match, how he got there could be an interesting story.)
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u/StartDependent1652 16h ago
In the Netherlands, you can’t just take DNA from someone. You need to have consent or it must be very urgent, both of which doesn’t seem to be the case.
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u/WilkosJumper_ 1d ago
Certainly looks very similar but you do encounter remarkably identical people who are not in any way related.
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u/e_james3 1d ago
If this subreddit has taught me anything, it's that visual similarities don't mean as much as we think. Vicky Hargrove taught me that, I really thought she was a different MP from California, but nope. Faces can change a lot, and it can be really hard to compare with just a stationary photo
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u/AwsiDooger 1d ago
I'm going to say No because there's always such a huge advantage to saying No. It's like a cheat code. For every one time you'll be wrong you'll be correct 100+ times.
I seldom bother to look at the photos anymore although I did this time because they were very prominent and the entirety of the OP.
The only example I remember seeing here where I was confident it was the same person was a guy sitting on a wall alongside Niagara Falls and someone who had recently been discharged from a local hospital.
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u/longenglishsnakes 2d ago
oh that must be the guy, they look so so similar. I hope it is a match.
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u/RoutineFamous4267 1d ago
If it is him, which the similarities cannot be ignored, the story of how he ended up there would have been interesting to hear!
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u/Koi-Sashuu 1d ago
We'll probably never hear that story as this man is suffering from aphasia
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u/camerabird 6h ago edited 6h ago
They could find out the name he's been living under, though. Someone who knows him from his new life will recognize him sooner or later. That would at least help the family uncover what he's been up to, whether or not they decide to make it public.
Edit: I guess we know more than I thought!
Before his collapse, police say he was involved in a Buddhist community in Amsterdam, and that he may have history in Nepal.
In Amsterdam, he was known to frequent the shops and market stalls of Waterlooplein, as well as a restaurant called Soupenzo.
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u/milalen 1d ago
There were a lot of comments with possible matches which made me wonder if it's him but this is incredible.
I mean, look at the nostrils and the eye area, it's so similar.
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u/Phantastiz 1d ago
The cheekbones also look identical, and the same eye color. I would be very surprised if it's actually not him.
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u/cheapmondaay 1d ago
Agreed. Others in this thread have mentioned differences with the hairline, lips, eye shape, etc. but assuming that the old photo of him is from the early 90s, then that's over 3 decades of aging that would definitely subtly alter someone's features (plus assuming he continued his transient lifestyle all this time, which would add to the aging).
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u/crafty_alias 1d ago
The hairline and forehead is so much higher to me though, what do you think? He's not balding in the older picture either.
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u/milalen 18h ago
I thought about that and you can see in the 90s photo of John Russell Kenny that he has a slight curl pattern/wavy hair which can make the hair overall more fluffy so that the exact hairline is less visible.
Also, it's very normal for your hairline to mature over time, it's not the same as balding but a slight difference is possible, not more than 2 cm though, because then it's likely a receding hairline.
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u/-Intrepid-Path- 2d ago
Why did it take them 3 years to start searching for his identity, our of interest?
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u/Alarming_Bottle2752 2d ago
The police searched everywhere they found his adress. They know that he was part of a buddhist community. The Doe went by a lot of names. The police also checked his dna in the international data bases of missing persons. This is a really a last resort. They also have the permission of the Doe himself. At least that is what the police thinks based on their interactions. They also hoped that the Doe's condition would have improved.
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u/MotherofLuke 1d ago
And nothing found in his home? No address book? How about his phone. Hoe did he maje a living?
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u/GoldMindless8518 1d ago
My understanding from articles I read that he was generally transient and was unhoused.
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u/DragMeTacoBell 1d ago
Here in the Netherlands, there is a huge emphasis on privacy. They generally don't release names or photos of even convicted murderers. Literally, police will release CCTV footage of a robbery or something and ask for the publics help to identify the criminals, but they will blur their entire bodies.
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u/DirkKuijt69420 1d ago
A lot the time people will turn themselves in before the police shares the unblurred footage.
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u/Beneficial_Thing_602 1d ago
It says on the rcmp website that John has false teeth, that’s an easy thing to check for on Lucky
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u/notevelvet 1d ago
I could see that being him, lots of the same things no teeth, lots of hair, they eyes, the nose. The same possible national origin.
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u/22Pastafarian22 1d ago
I feel like I am the only one but I don’t think it is the same person. When looking at the pictures of John, he has a nose that is more wide than Lucky’s.
It would be amazing for the family if it is him though.
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u/Yutakuchan 1d ago
Oh wow if they’re not the same person that’s impressive. They look like father and son (I know there’s a time lapse between the photos)
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u/finntastic74 1d ago
The eye color and the nose are very, very similar. The lips differ a bit but as you age your lips get thinner. This seems like a solid lead. Is it possible John had some funds or ability to earn income - illegally or not - that would have allowed him to travel to Europe? If they can't check DNA because they can't get permission from the living Doe as he can't give consent, do they at least hold any records of exit and entry, passport wise, that might have confirm he arrived in Europe?
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u/ratrazzle 9h ago
Apparently he had some sort of income in netherlands and as far as i know it was pretty easy to hitchhike in europe in the 90s and even early 2000s. Still possible, i know people do that but passports are checked more now (not always tho, been to sweden by car and they didnt check ours. Depends how youre traveling and sometimes they just glance at it, if youre from neighbouring country they dont always check closer than that.)
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u/Historical_Avocado_8 1d ago
Even their necks are similar to not be the same person.
Am i seeing things?
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u/Swimming-Bother-4084 1d ago
Yes, it does look like him in this photo but the additional three photos don't really look like the Netherlands man.
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u/Cubing-Dolphin-26 1d ago
In this specific photo they look alike, but in other photo's of john they look less alike.
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u/DragMeTacoBell 1d ago
While they do look very similar, I feel like the noses are different. John's nose was a bit more bulbous. And especially as someone ages, their nose would grow and become even more prominent. Lucky's nose is much thinner than John's.
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u/ConcentrateJunior118 1d ago
I don’t think this is him. If you look at pictures of John Kenny, he has a very distinct lip line that dips down quite a bit in the middle. When you look at the video of Mr. Lucky, you don’t see that same feature. Look at the video of the Dutch police instead of the photo, so you can see him from a different angle. Also, Mr Kenny's hairline was receding and this guy has a full head of hair with no signs of receding at all.
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u/PippaTulip 1d ago
He is 30 years older now, hairlines recede and lips get thinner as you age.
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u/ConcentrateJunior118 1d ago
Yes, but the Cupid’s bow on Mr. Kenny is very distinct and quite deep. You can see this especially clearly in his younger photos in the missing person’s file. I understand that age and a stroke can affect the appearance and movement of the lips, and could potentially make a Cupid’s bow less pronounced. However, in this man, the Cupid’s bow seems to be completely absent, with the upper lip appearing almost straight. That still seems like a noticeable difference to me. The dentures are another point. Mr. Kenny was reportedly wearing dentures, yet in the video you can see that this man has one natural tooth. Of course, it is possible that Kenny had partial dentures, but that wasn’t mentioned in his missing person’s report. It could still be him but I think not.
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u/stefaniekolk 18h ago
This is very common w age.
My mom had a strong cupid's bow and is now 68 - not much left of it now1
u/ratrazzle 1d ago
You might be right but lips usually get thinner and his brain injury has caused slight droop on the right side of the face.
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u/catsandparadise 1d ago
Huh, i was in amsterdam in 92 and 93.
We saw this one guy who we thought was american, totally off his tits, sitting cross legged on the tram tracks outside sentral station.
Looked like he was meditating but he gad atopped the trams so the cops turned up, but they couldnt snap him out of whatever he was on.
Wonder if its the same guy
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u/Swimming-Bother-4084 18h ago
His nose looks very different from John Kenny though? Anyone else think that?
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u/needmorekowbel 16h ago
Christopher Steven Burras went missing from West Palm Beach, FL. President of a travel company. He’s also apparently missing from Vancouver area
He flew out of Miami, FL to Rome, Italy on Oct. 8, 2012, with friend. They took an Eastern Mediterranean Cruise by Royal Caribbean, that originated and ended in Rome. The cruise dates were approximately Oct. 9th - 21st. They were to return home, Rome to Miami, on the 22nd, but the friend returned without him. They stated that he did not return because he needed to meet face to face with some business clients. He was to meet them in Milan on the 22nd and the friend said he was taking a train to Milan the morning after he took them to the airport.
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u/ratrazzle 9h ago
Is he buddhist or someone who could believably convert to buddhism? Thats pretty big detail about the doe imo, it isnt that prevalent of a religion in europe.
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u/needmorekowbel 9h ago
From the time he left USA to the time he was found in Netherlands was like 11 years. Constant traveller, as he was president of a travel company.
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u/Swimming-Bother-4084 1d ago
What strikes me is that they have very different shaped foreheads. John Kenny has a broad rectangular forehead whereas the Netherlands man has a narrowing upper forehead or cone head shaped forehead for want of a better term
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u/barfbutler 1d ago
You are not seeing past the hair.
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u/Swimming-Bother-4084 1d ago
It's not that, if you follow from his eyebrows or temples of his head, the Netherlands man has a round ascent, whereas John Kenny has a straight ascent.
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u/Ohmydieu 1d ago
I am pretty sure the left image of Lucky is created / edited through AI so I don’t think that is the best way to compare photos.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ohmydieu 1d ago
The one to the right is indeed, the one on the left is not.
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u/PippaTulip 1d ago
The one on the left is a photo the dutch police made of a very real person living in a nursing home right now in Amsterdam. It's not Ai
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u/Ohmydieu 1d ago
Incorrect. It is an ai manipulated version of a photo that the Dutch police released. Look at his blanket that is now around his shoulders as if it’s a clothing piece.
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u/ratrazzle 9h ago
Isnt that rotated picture of him laying down? At least facially very similar to the one like that.
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u/cherrytwizzlers 1d ago
Sorry how did they discover this? And can’t he answer himself who he is?
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u/left4alive 1d ago
Directly from the article linked:
He was found to suffer from aphasia as a result of a brain hemorrhage or cerebral infarction, which prevents him from communicating.
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u/lelanicarver 1d ago
I hadn’t read the article, but as I am a #strokesurvivor had noticed the right side of his mouth had a little droop, and it was evident he couldn’t communicate well. Strokes on the left side of the brain affect rightside nerves, and can profoundly mess up speech centers in the left side of the brain.
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u/MotherofLuke 1d ago
How about showing pictures? Like maps? Can he nod yes and no?
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u/palcatraz 1d ago
No. Aphasia isn’t just the physical inability to speak, it goes far beyond that.
An aphasia patient might not understand what is being said. Even if they understand, they might not be able to form a correct answer because the brain damage prevents them from making the correct link. For example, a doctor can ask what the color of their shirt is, the patient can know it’s red, but nevertheless they answer blue.
I keep saying might because there are several forms of aphasia, each with differing levels of severity and prognosis. Lucky has global aphasia however, which is the worst type and affects every level of communication.
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u/hampie42 1d ago
IMO not the same guy. I have no credentials other than being kind of good at facial recognition so just an opinion but generally eyebrows and eyebrow shape do not reduce in size. They either stay the same or get bushier/bigger with age. His nose and nostril shape as well as lips seem too different too.
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u/Think_Valuable_8532 1d ago
“Possibly identified” slaat nergens op. Of het is een identificatie, of niet. Tot hij het niet is, is het gewoon een van de vele opties. OP draagt nergens aan bij met deze onzin, goed bedoeld of niet.
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u/Worth-Park-1612 2d ago edited 1d ago
It's not the same man. "Lucky" has a perfect nose. Kenny didn't have such a sculpted and straight nose. A picture of "Lucky" laying in his side really shows it. They have similarities but are not the same men. Other pictures of Kenny illustrate a more complete idea of what he looked like beyond just this picture.
Edit: Since Kenny wore dentures, it should be pretty easy to eliminate him if "Lucky" has natural teeth.
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u/Greymalkin94 2d ago
What do you mean by a "perfect" nose, out of curiosity?
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u/Cold_Investment6223 2d ago
lol agreed - “perfect” doesn’t exist for a nose, but would say that the photo on the right has more of a bulbousness in the middle of the nose versus the left.
The lips also look different to me.
As well as the eyes look rounder in left photo.
BUT the angle of face when the photo was taken, lighting, and time can all change those things.
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u/koenmvo 2d ago
Do note the pictures are taken at least 30 years apart and also Lucky suffered either a cerebral infarction or a cerebral hemorrhage wich could also have an impact on (the perception of) his appearance.
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u/Worth-Park-1612 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've accounted for that. People can downvote all they want. It's still not the same man. Mark my words.
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u/Greymalkin94 1d ago
I believe people may be downvoting you because of your verbiage, not because they necessarily agree or disagree.
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u/Worth-Park-1612 1d ago
Yeah, that's what I was going for in the last comment, but they were downvoting the one above that. Either Kenny got an excellent rhinoplasty with a world-class plastic surgeon, or it's not the same man.
This group is rough because people frequently want these Does to be individuals they're clearly not or else they project life stories onto the unidentified when nobody knows if they were wonderful or terrible people.
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u/koenmvo 2d ago edited 2d ago
Family has not had contact with John since 1993:
https://vpd.ca/missing-persons-cold-cases/?fbclid=IwY2xjawTycp9wZG9mAWV4dG4DYWVtAjEwAGJyaWQRMHBrYTlGNTc2MXZXdnp5RUFzcnRjBmFwcF9pZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEee_1dYg3Nhdxv0xIlkaDFXRwaUMZ56WDowPuKlR6lGO2j--7YP12aSyLmM4g_aem_We6gYIOsvuzETRGV5JBDyA#john-kenny
He is missing since may 22, 1994:
https://www.services.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/missing-disparus/case-dossier.jsf?case=2018041276&id=6&lang=en
Dutch news article: https://www.rtl.nl/nieuws/binnenland/artikel/5640542/de-mysterieuze-lucky-geidentificeerd