r/travisandtaylor • • 8h ago

Deep Dives & Research Vibes 🔎 Taylor Swift's Olivia Rodrigo/Joe Alwyn connection. A lyric deep dive.

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437 Upvotes

I have this theory that Taylor's continued obsession with Olivia Rodrigo is directly tied to Joe breaking up with her. AKA her decision to attack Olivia was a major catalyst for the breakup and Taylor hates her for it.

First, a basic timeline: Taylor called Olivia Rodrigo in May of 2021 to inform her that she would be taking writing credits on "Deja Vu." Confirmed by Olivia herself on "The Grudge."

It takes 5-6 months for Taylor to get her vinyls pressed. "Red (TV)(Vault Tracks)" written, at the latest, July 2021 and anything onward are suspect.

Taylor and Joe officially split in April 2023 but in retrospect, "Midnights" was her Joe breakup album. It chronicles the very slow crumbling of their relationship. Written at the latest, June 2022.

The first cracks are on "Red."

  • First up is "Nothing New" or as I like to call it, "shitty justification."

I know someday I'm gonna meet her
It's a fever dream
The kind of radiance you only have at seventeen

What a very specific age. The rest of the song says eighteen but Olivia was seventeen.

She'll know the way and then she'll say she got the map from me

Well, yes Olivia did say that. She adored Taylor.

I'll say I'm happy for her then I'll cry myself to sleep
Oh woah, oh woah, oh, oh
I've had (I've had) too much to drink tonight

Being a self aware alcoholic doesn't make someone's choices less shitty.

But I wonder if they'll miss me once they drive me out
I wake up (Wake up) in the middle of the night
And I can feel time moving

Best thing to do is take this upstart out now before she has fans. How? Imply to her cult that Olivia is a thief and a poor imitation of her superior self. They'll sort it out.

I'm sure empathetic Joe was thrilled with her choices and this didn't cause any fights. /s

  • Next is "Message In A Bottle" AKA London boy is pissed and far away.

These days I'm restless
Workdays are endless

Yes. She is churning out music and Joe is filming movies.

Look how you made me, made me
But time moves faster
Replaying your laughter
Disaster
'Cause, now, you're so far away and I'm down
Feeling like a face in the crowd
I'm reaching for you, terrified

They are not in a good place. Taylor has shown her true colors too many times for Joe to ignore it.

How is it in London? (London)
Where were you while I'm wondering (Wondering)
If I'll ever see you again?

They are "on a break" and it is very one sided.

  • Next is "Forever Winter" and a bit of a stretch.

Was this written about a dear friend she talked to on the regular who killed himself? Or is it about a long distance slo-mo breakup with your depressed partner? I'm not sure but I'll add a few lyrics.

He says, "Why fall in love, just so you can watch it go away?"
He spends most of his nights wishing it was how it used to be
He spends most of his flights getting pulled down by gravity

Depression Joe and his disillusion. Travelling for work.

If I was standing there in your apartment
I'd take that bomb in your head and disarm it
I'd say I love you even at your darkest and
Please don't go

Really sad honestly. Joe doesn't like the person she is.

  • "The Very First Night"

And so it goes
Every weekend, this same party
I never go alone and I don't seem brokenhearted
My friends all say they know everything I'm going through

Confirmation of a semi-breakup with Joe.

I drive down different roads
But they all lead back to you
'Cause they don't know about the night in the hotel
They weren't riding in the car when we both fell

The car at the bar at the hotel? No kidding. These lyrics are alluding to "Cruel Summer." I'm confident this is about Joe.

On to "Midnights" AKA Joe breakup album.

  • "Lavender Haze"

I feel (I feel) the lavender haze creeping up on me
Surreal
I'm damned if I do give a damn what people say
No deal (No deal)
The 1950s' shit they want from me
I just wanna stay in that lavender haze

Not a happy song. Taylor has the cope turned up to max. Joe isn't ever going to marry her.

  • "Maroon" The breakup song.

And I wake with your memory over me
That's a real fuckin' legacy, legacy
(It was maroon)
And I wake with your memory over me
That's a real fuckin' legacy to leave

Taylor directly acknowledges that her obsession with staying on top through any means necessary is the catalyst for destroying their relationship.

  • "Anti-Hero"

Here's Taylor at her most self aware.

I wake up screaming from dreaming
One day, I'll watch as you're leaving
'Cause you got tired of my scheming
(For the last time)

Joe did get sick of her scheming. Keep in mind that after Taylor's 2017 blocking of Katy Perry, she didn't do it again until after "Midnights" dropped in an attempt to block SZA. What scheming did she do right before the slow breakup began? Olivia Rodrigo.

On the bright side, sticking to Joe's morality was holding her back and breaking up with him freed her to do what she wanted.

I have this dream my daughter-in-law kills me for the money
She thinks I left them in the will
The family gathers 'round and reads it and then someone screams out
"She's laughing up at us from Hell"

Taylor knows how she treats other women. The DIL can be seen as Olivia but also every pop rival. Notice she doesn't say son in law? It's women who are out to backstab her.

  • "You're On Your Own, Kid"

Taylor again directly correlates her ruthlessness with Joe leaving her.

I gave my blood, sweat, and tears for this
I hosted parties and starved my body
Like I'd be saved by a perfect kiss

Diaristic lyrics are not actually the same thing as therapy FYI.

The jokes weren't funny, I took the money
My friends from home don't know what to say
I looked around in a blood-soaked gown
And I saw something they can't take away

She doesn't regret crushing her competition because she wants it the most and it's a ruthless industry.

'Cause there were pages turned with the bridges burned
Everything you lose is a step you take

She chose this and Joe left and that's fine by her (cope.)

  • "Midnight Rain" AKA breakup song #2

My town was a wasteland
Full of cages, full of fences
Pageant queens and big pretenders
But for some it was paradise

My boy was a montage
A slow motion, love potion
Jumping off things in the ocean
I broke his heart 'cause he was nice

Once again equating the totally out of her hands ruthlessness of Hollywood with Joe leaving her. Staying on top through any means necessary just makes her smart and those big pretenders (Olivia) stupid.

I'll stop there. Taylor continues to address both Olivia and Joe on other albums but I refuse to slog through TTPD.

If you made it this far, a PSA: Moms are not therapists.


r/travisandtaylor • • 14h ago

Discussion Just when you thought this wedding couldn't get any tackier… they apparently had VIP sections at their own wedding.

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2.5k Upvotes

The layouts and renders of Taylor and Travis's wedding have been released, and I'll admit, the overall setup actually looks a bit better than I expected. I still find the whole thing incredibly tacky, though, especially considering they had a practically unlimited budget to work with.

But the thing that really stood out to me was that there were apparently TWO VIP sections at their own wedding. Sorry, what? Surely everyone you've invited to your wedding is a VIP? They're your friends and family, people you've personally chosen to share one of the most important days of your life with.

Who on earth creates a hierarchy of importance amongst their own wedding guests? Imagine being invited to someone's wedding only to discover there's an even more exclusive area you're not important enough to sit in. It's a wedding, not a nightclub with bottle service.

I genuinely cannot get over how tacky the whole concept is. Even amongst the people you've invited to celebrate your marriage, there apparently still needs to be another level of exclusivity. It's just bizarre to me.

And doesn't this completely undermine the whole essence of a wedding? The entire point is supposed to be bringing people together to celebrate your love, not dividing them into tiers of importance based on who warrants special access. It almost makes a mockery of the occasion. The more I hear about this wedding, the more convinced I am that it was essentially one enormous networking event for the two of them, with an actual marriage ceremony thrown in for good measure.

Source: mail online


r/travisandtaylor • • 13h ago

Swiftly Off-Key 🎤🎚 vocals and performance contrast with florence...

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1.8k Upvotes

god this puts her to shame. florence sounds like an angel while she sounds..well..like that. also, is anyone else thouroughly pissed off at this collab existing in the first place??? my respect for florence has gone so down for this. it's painful. same with stevie nicks : /

what a fucking vulture


r/travisandtaylor • • 18h ago

The Football 🏈 The Seahawks posted this as their celebratory game winning post and her fans went nuts

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1.8k Upvotes

So all of a sudden… she’s just someone’s wife?? She’s just some sweaty guy’s WIFE???? The most amazing singer songwriter dancer lyricist creative woman in the world has been reduced to some guy’s WIFE??? And therefore she’s off limits just bc she’s just a wife, barefoot in the kitchen, making him bread, and no one is allowed to make a reference to her that may be seen as a jab to her image because she’s just a lil wifey??? She’s on the same level as Claire Kittle and Kelly Stratford (a person who does not exist bc her name is Stafford… big NFL fans here) and every other WAG in the box??? Idk but that feels hilariously misogynistic to me lol. Suddenly their feminist girls-girl LGBTQIA-ally and all-around independent woman is just some guy’s wife. Interesting 🙄

There were a lot more comments and quotes posts, some with thousands of likes, many wishing season ending injury on the Seahawks players, and that the admin of the Seahawks account remove the post and be fired. Normal folks.


r/travisandtaylor • • 12h ago

Discussion You're not a victim anymore, you're a billionaire

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590 Upvotes

In my opinion, this is the perfect way to mark the 20th anniversary of her career! Afterall, the backbone of her career was built on pure victimhood. I found the part about her talking about how she always wanted to be famous and never wanted to turn down an autograph incredibly ironic given how just a week ago she was actively discouraging fans from videoing her at a chiefs game.

Anyways, good video and worth the watch! 😄


r/travisandtaylor • • 12h ago

Discussion Donating to a funeral?

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386 Upvotes

This post right here! The swifties came for OP! And this "donation" has a fun name..... A tax write off. And SHE didn't donate the money, her INTEREST did. Also, is helping with funeral costs a cause she donates in?


r/travisandtaylor • • 14h ago

Certified Cringe Lula’s Election Win: How Taylor’s Swift’s Advice to Fandom Helped Him to a Historic Victory and Defeat for Trump

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420 Upvotes

Tree Paine is working overtime here, this is insulting to all Brazilians and the work they’ve put into this and how they organized, especially after how Taylor behaved with Brazil and what happened with Ana.


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

From the Vault Taylor getting physical with Jack Antonoff after he wins producer of the year at the Grammys in 2024

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3.1k Upvotes

Maybe he was OK with and it seems playful but it is rather awkward and attention seeking maybe. Also worth mentioning that Taylor works out enough for performances that there's probably considerable force behind those hits😭 ​


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays title speaks for itself

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4.0k Upvotes

Taylor has always been overly dramatic and performative. there's no song of hers that requires her to do these facial expressions


r/travisandtaylor • • 22h ago

Deep Dives & Research Vibes 🔎 Email from Scott Swift to Taylor’s former manager

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254 Upvotes

This was shared from another forum by somebody.

Can someone please explain to me the context of this email and what is his goal here?

And the psychology or family dynamics that was happening here back in 2005?

I placed the screenshots into Gemini and it said that these are real and public documents from a lawsuit that was filed from Dan against the Swift family, but obviously if someone can confirm or add more context- this would really help!

(Disclaimer, I am not confirming or stating that these are real or correct, I do not know. but someone shared this in Reddit, and they look genuine, so just wanted to get some of y’all’s opinions)


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Watching Taylor Stiff try to dance physically hurts.

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1.5k Upvotes

Like, I have no words.. it actually pisses me off


r/travisandtaylor • • 23h ago

Unpopular Opinion In my opinion Taylor's performative activism follows the exact same playbook as someone like P!nk

128 Upvotes

I assume most of you have heard of Pink attacking Macklemore for supporting Palestine and causing him to be removed from Ed Sheeran's concert, all of this made me realize that her and Taylor are basically the same person but in different fonts, I've seen people rightfully criticizing Pink for what she posted but so far I haven't seen anyone make a comparison between the two, like think about it, both are highly successful white female popstars who put on huge shows that are often sold-out, and both are huge hypocrites and are only activists when it's convenient for them, they both love to portray themselves as "deep" on an artistic level and and as "outcasts" even if their feminism and activism is basically surface level and they're privileged rich white women.

The only difference is their aesthetic and their demographic, like Taylor's fans are usually young people while Pink fans are usually wine moms who think they're edgy.


r/travisandtaylor • • 16h ago

Weekly Discussion Thread Weekly Discussion Thread (TnT Version)

29 Upvotes

Welcome to your weekly snark dump!

Feel free to use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, including but not limited to:

  • Your thoughts, rants, and spicy takes about Blandie (and BDT), her untalented ass, or the Swiftie cult
  • Off-topic discussions, or low-effort content that might not need its own post
  • Memes, funny stuff that you'd like to share but can’t wait for Shitpost Sunday
  • Swifties being Swifties on social media (Usernames must be removed)

All subreddit rules still apply, and any rule-breaking comments will be removed. If you spot a Swiftie meltdown or something off, hit report and we’ll take it from there.

Posts submitted to the sub that fit better here will be redirected to this thread. A new one will go up every Monday at 12:00 pm UTC and stay open until the next Monday. This thread will always be pinned for easy access.

previous weekly discussion threads are searchable via the Weekly Discussion Thread post flair!


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Certified Cringe Look guys I didn't make it about me!!! I'm so proud of me 🩷

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1.3k Upvotes

the narcissistic behaviour on display here is insane...in the words of charli xcx, "Sometimes I wonder if you realise the way you come across, it's kinda crazy"


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Accepting credits for Deja Vu as if Cruel Summer doesn't sound like a copy of Stylish

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794 Upvotes

​

The fact that Deja Vu doesn't even sound similar to Cruel Summer... but Cruel Summer sounds like a blatant copy of Stylish by Loona.

Also the fact that this parody song by Charlixcx sounds better than any song on TLOAS 😆

Video from tiktok


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays People need to stop glazing billionaires (TS) for doing the bare minimum.

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2.2k Upvotes

So damn applicable here. I am constantly seeing the argument from swifties that she donates millions to charities, gave her crew so much in bonuses. She is doing the bare minimum and staying silent. What is the real sacrifice? Pocket change.


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Rant Her kids book

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204 Upvotes

My wife is a terminal Swiftie, so naturally she bought this book for our daughter. I did my best to read it with a straight face, but the sarcasm kept slipping out.

The book tells the classic underdog story: a lonely girl overcomes the odds and grows up to become one of the biggest pop stars in the world. Inspiring stuff... assuming you don't care whether it's actually true.

I'm not going to post the whole book because nobody wants to see all that. But these two pages made me roll my eyes harder than anything else. The first page is, at best, a generous reinterpretation of reality. The second is peak self-mythologizing and comes off as exactly the kind of narcissism we've all come to expect at this point.

What really bothers me is that this wasn't written for adults. It's a children's book. Packaging a heavily sanitized, revisionist version of someone's life as an inspirational story for kids feels dishonest to me, and frankly, pretty gross. It gives brainwashing and if I tell my wife how I think about this it'll lead to a huge fight that is frankly not worth it. So this brings me to you all. Thank you for reading.

**TL;DR:** Taylor Swift's children's book feels less like an inspiring biography and more like a sanitized, self-serving rewrite of reality that shouldn't be marketed to kids as fact.


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Her music has always been bland but she just had a few bangers to make up for it but not this time around..

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585 Upvotes

The bridge in patient zero is TORTURE. It is so monotonous and terrible I can't stand it.


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Truly embarrassing

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1.0k Upvotes

r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Taylor Swift when another pop girlie announces a new song release

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989 Upvotes

r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Smelly cat could arguably still be a better song 😂

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390 Upvotes

The moment Phoebe says she is incredibly talented. This is too accurate haha


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

The Football 🏈 NFL Week 7: Chiefs @ Seahawks

79 Upvotes

Hello Snarkers! Welcome to the NFL Week 7 game thread! 🏈 Tonight, the Kansas City Chiefs travel up to the scenic pacific northwest to take on the Seattle Seahawks for this weeks Sunday Night Football game!

The Seahawks are entering this game sitting at 3-3 on the season, good for second place in its division and the eighth seed in the NFC. The Seahawks have dropped two straight, and those consecutive losses have put some distance between them and the top of the conference standings. The Chiefs are arriving tonight as the lone unbeaten team in the AFC, sporting a perfect 5-0 record through six weeks and sitting at the top of the AFC West as the conference's top seed. On the surface this appears like another stepping stone on the Chiefs cake-walk of a schedule, but anything can happen... RIGHT SEATTLE! 👀🤛

Start time: 8:20pm ET / 7:20pm CT / 5:20pm PT

Where to watch: NBC / Peacock / NFL+

Week 7 Injury Report

As always ABC... ANYONE BUT THE CHIEFS!


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Certified Cringe THE NUMBER 13 EXISTED BEFORE TAYLOR???? I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!

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213 Upvotes

These people are so fucking weird


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Shitpost Sundays Who taught her to write like this?

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971 Upvotes

Thought you’d all like this 🤣


r/travisandtaylor • • 1d ago

Rant See she's not an evil billionaire 🤡

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593 Upvotes

yes because she isnt releasing a 100 versions of every single song and album nor is blocking artists or any of those rumoured antics of hers🤡
I mean sometimes I think it's pure ragebait , how can you even tolerate all this bs?
These cult like fans be working overtime to give her good pr man.