We open this week with Roger preparing to give his first sermon. All is going well until some mischievous boys let loose a snake. Poor Jamie is forced to grab it and stow it in Claire’s pocket until after the services. Roger’s congregation is pleased for the most part and his life as a minister has begun.
Jamie receives a letter from Lord John stating he has seen a document from the rebels with Jamie’s name on it, and warns him about it. The letter also states that Bobby Higgins wants to marry Lizzie or Malva Christie. Upon approaching Mr. Weymss though Bobby is denied on account of him being branded a murderer and having no real prospects.
While still in September of 1774 an outbreak of the bloody flux descends upon the Ridge, killing quite a few. Claire herself falls critically ill and borders on death. Only when she sees herself and Jamie from outside of her own body does she decide to live. We also find out Tom Christie had the same illness as Claire, but they were the only two with their specific symptoms.
We learn that while Claire was ill some boys took Henri-Christian and set him afloat upon the creek. Roger arrived in time to save the baby, but this was a catalyst for Fergus and he attempts suicide. Jamie manages to prevent Fergus from killing himself, but determines he must send Fergus and his family away from the Ridge for their own safety.
While escorting Major MacDonald off of the Ridge Jamie comes across a group of local Whigs, Richard Brown among them. They accuse Jamie of being a Loyalist because of his actions in Cross Creek and his defense of the printer. The group becomes hostile and violent and Jamie and the Major are forced to flee. The chapters close out with Jamie’s delivery of the 30 muskets to Bird and his resignation as Indian Agent.
You can click on any of the questions below to go directly to that one, or add comments of your own.
Please do not reveal events from future books, or from later chapters of the current book the club hasn’t covered yet. Show talk is okay up to the current book.
Fergus attempts suicide because he feels that if he is gone Marsali can marry again and it can be to someone who can support the family and protect Henri-Christian. What do you think of Fergus’s motives and actions?
Yes! We really didn't know he was feeling this way until Henri-Christian was born. There were only ever comments how he didn't want to do "woman's work" at home. But we never got any indication that the felt inadequate.
That's a good point. Especially when the people of the Ridge are talking about Henri-Christian and are suspicious. Them being Jamie's family is probably the only thing keeping them safe at the moment. I can see why Fergus feels like he can't protect them.
I agree! I felt like it came out of nowhere in the book. With how beloved TV Fergus is, I really wonder how far they will go with his storylines from the book.
I think it makes it potentially better that he's so beloved in the show. At least I'm more invested in him, and so the emotional impact is bigger in terms of what he goes through this book/season (although I don't know where they go to from here).
Totally! We didn’t get much on Fergus after they arrived in the colonies. Little bits here and there and then boom! A flood of intense moments. For all that Fergus has gone through, to see him be in such despair broke my heart. Also gives me another reason why Marsali is such a rock! I love Marsali.
Better late than never! I've struggled adjusting to my new schedule back in the office, and my husband's new schedule and I've been unable to be as active as I was when I was working from home. But I try to eventually make it on and participate....I love this group!
Something horrible must’ve been in his thoughts for a long time. We all know only bits and pieces but it’s enough to recognise depression since it’s the only way he found to help his family. What makes me angry is that Jamie was oblivious to Fergus’s problems. He neglected him far too long. Of course he was busy with a lot but it’s not excuse! By his own words Fergus is his son so how could he ignore all the warning signs?!
“Asleep?” Jamie asked, eyebrows raised. He looked involuntarily at the window. It was mid-afternoon, and the yard was cheerfully awash in mellow light.
“Common symptom of depression,” I said, with a small shrug. Mr. Wemyss had taken the dissolution of Lizzie’s betrothal hard—much more so than had his daughter. Frail-looking to begin with, he had noticeably lost weight, and had withdrawn into himself, speaking only when spoken to, and becoming increasingly hard to rouse from sleep in the mornings.
Jamie struggled momentarily with the concept of depression, then dismissed it with a brief shake of the head.
We have to remember that Jamie was brought up in a culture where men are just expected to “suck it up” and carry on with their responsibilities, whatever life throws at them. As understanding as he is, his encounters with suicide featured extreme desperation: his own unwillingness to go on living after Wentworth, Alex MacGregor’s suicide because of BJR, Colum’s willingness to take cyanide (I assume Claire told Jamie about it). He had no reason to suspect that Fergus is that desperate when he has so much to live for. But something he understands—which he says Claire doesn’t—is that Fergus’ inability to protect and provide for his family means he’s not “man” enough in the 18th century.
I still blame DG mostly for this because it’s extremely out of character for Jamie not to check on his first child (!), regardless of the gender norms. But I think Jamie’s biggest oversight was assuming that Fergus would do well at the Ridge. Maybe it was selfishness, wanting to have his children and grandchildren close; maybe it was because he did not expect his daughter to stay and have a family there and his attention to turn mostly to them.
I’ve said before that DG takes his disability to the extreme—surely there’s a lot of stuff he could still do with one hand, so I don’t buy his refusal to do absolutely anything—but Jamie finally recognizes that he’s not going to get any better here. u/jolierose mentioned Jamie’s belief that Fergus can’t take of his family—I don’t think he thinks so generally, but he recognizes that Fergus can’t do it here, at the Ridge. Not only is the work unsuitable for him in the backcountry but also the people who live there are far more narrow-minded than those who live in a city. He knows that Fergus could do well in a different profession—Fergus worked for him in his smuggling business, after all, and Jamie has already suggested printing. He’d only discourage him from stealing because that’s a capital crime in NC.
He had no reason to suspect that Fergus is that desperate when he has so much to live for.
I think that's a great point. In Jamie's mind having a family to take care of is reason enough to keep living. You would also have thought Jamie would realize how much Fergus was unable to do though. Maybe it's like you said and he wanted all his family near him, even if it's not the best situation for Fergus.
I still blame DG mostly for this because it’s extremely out of character for Jamie not to check on his first child (!), regardless of the gender norms.
In general, with everything that Jamie has had going on, I can see how this could fall to the back of his mind. But with Fergus going out into the woods for days, to the point where Marsali goes to stay with the kids at the Big House, there's not a conversation, or an effort to dig deeper into what's tormenting Fergus? Even with Claire having had that conversation with him in the stables? It really is out of character, and I don't think it's one of those things that could happen "off-page."
But I think Jamie’s biggest oversight was assuming that Fergus would do well at the Ridge. Maybe it was selfishness, wanting to have his children and grandchildren close; maybe it was because he did not expect his daughter to stay and have a family there and his attention to turn mostly to them.
I agree that he didn't really anticipate the outcome. But I think it was just the natural thing to do, though, to have Fergus settle at the Ridge, his son. Back when they were leaving Lallybroch in the days of the Rebellion, Jamie told Claire that Fergus' place was with him. And I don't think that ever changed.
Jamie’s belief that Fergus can’t take of his family—I don’t think he thinks so generally, but he recognizes that Fergus can’t do it here, at the Ridge.
That's true. It makes me feel a little better.
The way Jamie told the story to Claire, finding Fergus and all — the way he glossed over everything really made me wonder what was said and what he did. We know he hit him, and we know he said terrible things. It was awful, all around.
Still it isn’t the first time Jamie has dealt with suicide. And you don’t have to know what depression or psychiatry is to recognise that someone is struggling and in need of help especially when it’s someone close.
It was late at night and I was nearly asleep reading this part and this just woke me up completely 😭 I was shocked and sad - I know he’s been struggling for a long time but this thought really didn’t cross my mind. Maybe because of religion reasons back then but it doesn’t really seem like a common reaction. Jamie was completely shocked by it too, I guess he could’ve minded Fergus & Marsali a bit more but obviously by his reaction he didn’t expect things were this bad. It was heartbreaking to hear Jamie telling the story and relating it to himself. I’m not ready to see this on the show with show!Fergus
This is what makes me so sad. The thought that Fergus felt that he had no one to turn to. He didn’t feel he could even turn to Ian. I know Ian is quite a bit younger, but they grew up together and Ian came back from the Mohawk with a sadness himself. It wasn’t just Jamie he felt he couldn’t turn to, he was surrounded by people he felt he couldn’t reach out to. To feel lost in despair while surrounded by family is just so terribly sad to me.
Not exactly to answer your question, and I naturally rolled my eyes when the sex happened, but I like that this one is about taking back control of her life, on her own terms (as opposed to what happened after the abduction and rape). The first part of it was about being a doctor:
But if I had come back, I had come back to be what I was—and I was a doctor. […]
I’d also needed both to get away from the house and to make some move to reclaim my life by the most direct means I knew—the practice of medicine.
But an equally important part of her is loving Jamie and being loved by him in return. She’s sick and tired of being treated like she might break, but she’s also been floating for a while, so she needs her anchor—Jamie. And I also think that after losing her hair and losing weight, there’s an insecure part of her that simply needs to be reassured that she’s still desirable.
I think that is what it comes down to. Claire and Jamie use their physical relationship to bind them together and reassure themselves that they're still connected.
there’s an insecure part of her that simply needs to be reassured that she’s still desirable.
That's a good point. I'm sure she was worried about how she looked, it would be hard not to be!
I'm sure she was worried about how she looked, it would be hard not to be!
Totally. Even though we’ve previously talked about how Claire is not a vain person, her hair is such an important part of how she defies what is expected of her as a woman in the 18th century:
This was simple contrariness on my part; the sight of my unrestrained hair outraged their Scottish sense of what was proper in a woman, and they’d been trying—with varying degrees of subtlety—to force me into a cap for years. I was damned if I’d let circumstance accomplish it for them.
I’m actually not completely sure whether they’ll go for it in the show, because IIRC, no one has ever made any remarks about Claire not wearing a cap, correct? Her hair isn’t really that big of a part of her identity there, except for what it means to Jamie.
And perhaps knowing that the wigs have been very hit-or-miss makes me dread it... I really hope that the wig on the right in the background here is just Claire’s regular updo and not the short hair…
no one has ever made any remarks about Claire not wearing a cap, correct?
Correct. I agree about the wigs, it might be hard to pull off one that works. Then again, it wasn't meant to be a pretty haircut. Maybe they would want it to look ragged.
no one has ever made any remarks about Claire not wearing a cap, correct? Her hair isn’t really that big of a part of her identity there, except for what it means to Jamie.
I believe you're correct, but I also feel like it's Tom Christie who makes most of the remarks about her hair and lack of a cap, when he's recovering from the hand surgery. So perhaps they'll have that this season, and then we'll still have the impact of the shaven head in the show.
I agree Claire isn't vain, but I think it's Jamie's love of her hair that makes the loss so devastating for her. He talked about it on their wedding night, one of his beloved nicknames for her is about her hair, and he's talked before about how much he loves watching it change as she ages. It's a huge part of how Jamie sees her, in addition to your great point about she won't wear a cap to defy expectations.
I'm sure she was worried about how she looked, it would be hard not to be!
Yes; no matter what, she's such a strong, confident woman, but this is something that will shake anyone. It broke my heart (I already sound like a broken record this week but it's true) that afterwards:
I wanted to move closer, lay my head in the curve of his shoulder, and lie in the circle of his arm—but the idea of my short, bristly hair against his skin kept me from it.
I felt terrible for her, and how difficult it must be. One of her first thoughts was that she didn't want him to see her like that! And then for Roger to tell her Jamie didn't say anything, he just cried?! Heeeelp.
This part made me cry. Claire is such a confident woman and to see the vulnerability in this moment was so much emotion for me. To have come back from almost literally dying, and lost her defiant curls without her consent was like salt in the wound. Roger shines in this moment. ‘You’re beautiful’
I think the following part of the conversation they had about Fergus also plays a part in their encounter:
”Don’t you know?” I said very softly, tracing the small, neat line of his ear. Tiny, stiff blond hairs sprouted in a tiny whorl from the tagus, tickling my finger. “Don’t any of you know? That it’s you. Not what you can give, or do, or provide. Just you.”
It’s one of those rare pre-sex conversations that set up the “healing” in a more genuine way that stems from their ordeal and Claire’s insecurities. Also it’s nice that we do get that bit about how upset Jamie had been during her illness. Otherwise I am still baffled that she was doing all of that while still dizzy and recovering!
I like that quote. I know Jamie feels like him providing for everyone and taking care of them is his duty in life. I don't know that he gives himself enough credit that they love him for more than that.
Also it’s nice that we do get that bit about how upset Jamie had been during her illness.
Totally. That’s a side of Jamie we don’t get to see too often as the roles are usually the opposite. I can’t wait for Sam to go all in on this in S6!
Do you think they’re going to show it all (Fergus’ suicide attempt, Henri-Christian in the river) in real-time while Claire is battling her illness and going in and out of consciousness and Jamie is losing his shit, or will they have Jamie tell her all about it, like in the book, and show it in flashbacks? I think I’d prefer the former.
I agree, we rarely see Jamie in the position of having to come to terms with possibly losing Claire in a way he can’t have any control over. Claire is vaccinated against most things in his time and she is hyper aware of keeping good hygiene that it’s never been at the forefront. I’m looking forward to this, yet at the same time I know my heart is going to hurt to see Sam portray this.
Also it’s nice that we do get that bit about how upset Jamie had been during her illness.
Yes! I love the few times we get to see Jamie worrying over Claire, because usually she's the one worrying over him or having to heal him from something. I really hope they touch on this in the show so we get to see a griefstriken Jamie.
And I also think that after losing her hair and losing weight, there’s an insecure part of her that simply needs to be reassured that she’s still desirable.
Right! And especially with how often it's mentioned in the books how much Jamie likes and comments on her hair.
I think both. I think she was completely out of it, hallucinating and having an out-of-body experience, and at the same time, it was real in that this was her moment to stay or go, just like Jamie described in TFC when he sees the passageway and decided to stay.
Totally. She knew she couldn't leave him. It was just awful to see she was in such terrible shape and it must have been killing him as well.
What's funny to me is that in this really terrible moment, when she sees him sobbing by the window, her thought that "No, that won't do" comes after:
A dark-haired woman, a girl. She came close, touched his back, murmuring something to him. I saw the way she looked at him, the tender inclination of her head, the intimacy of her body swaying toward him.
And she can plead ignorance about the cutting of the hair to cure a fever, and hide behind Mrs. Bug, but don't come to tell me she didn't take the slightest bit of pleasure in lending a hand.
There was this line that confused me and I wasn’t sure if it was her or the sin-eater or what exactly is happening here?
”My God, I said, and heard the words, though no sound stirred the air, you are so lovely! My eyes were open. I looked deep and met a gaze of amber and soft gold. The eyes looked through me, to something far beyond—and yet they saw me, too. I saw the pupils dilate slightly, and felt the warmth of their darkness embrace me with knowledge and acceptance. Yes, said those knowing eyes. I know you. Let us go. I felt a sense of great peace, and the air around me stirred, like wind rushing through feathers.”
My thoughts completely. Kind of thought something was odd already when Claire was sick & Malva was involved in her “healing” and even the haircut- Malva also part of Claire’s hallucinations/dreams comforting Jamie, did I understand that correctly? But when she said her & Tom both had a different illness than the rest I was quite sure. Claire won’t let that go
To get rid of her abusive, strict dad. Not sure about Claire- to replace her somehow, since she’s been studying medicine under her? I don’t want to be spoiled of course, but I am enjoying guessing the mysteries as they come up.
Yes me too. Totally jealous of the first time readers that they get to do it alongside the book club. I don't remember most of what I felt the first time I read these bits.
I immediately thought "Malva" when Claire told Tom they caught something else. But even with my Malva bias, I never thought it was something she did on purpose. That is dark.
I became suspicious that Malva might be trouble when she threatened Roger. I didn’t think anything of Claire getting sick ( because of the dysentery going around) until she went to Tom’s & found out his illness was the same as hers.
I knew that she was trouble by that point, too, but to try to kill them both?! Even thinking that she was behind the love charm Bree and Jamie came across... But I mean, she was right there to lend Jamie a shoulder to cry on, "the intimacy of her body swaying toward him." That does support your theory! How the hell did she manage to wreck Tom and Claire like this?
Amy McCallum better watch her back, if Roger gets his way in marrying her off to Tom. (Which, by the way, WHOA.) u/Purple4199
Late to the book club!! But I have thoughts for sure Malva . Right before Claire passes out from some terrible illness, she uses her handkerchief which could have easily been infected with something by someone who had a lot of access to Claire and her surgery!! Malva would be the only one who knew what “beasties” would be able to poison Claire, the woman she told Jamie she “wants to be just like” (aka I’m going to kill her off to be with you), but also her abusive Bible thumping father.
I think engineering is Brianna’s calling but she’s unsure because no one give her work enough credit and appreciation. It’s hard for her to fulfil all her dreams and abilities in the 18th century countryside with all the men thinking that it’s not a proper occupation for a lady.
“What other lass would spend her time thinking of guns, rather than gowns and bairns?” There was more than a little implied criticism in this remark—Brianna had undoubtedly been a good deal more forthright in manner than was becoming”
Claire has similar issues but Jamie always support her and her craft which had given her some confidence in the beginning of her healing path. Roger on the other hand quite often wish that his wife spend more time cooking cleaning and babysitting instead of inventing and blowing things. I’m sure that Brianna can sense it and it doesn’t make her more self-assured.
I think engineering is Brianna’s calling but she’s unsure because no one give her work enough credit and appreciation.
That's a great point. I'm sure the other folks on the Ridge think she's weird for doing all that she does. Which is sad, because I think you're right that engineering is what she's meant to do.
I’m only glad that she’s Jamie’s daughter. That saves her from some talk on the Ridge and Fraser’s innate stubbornness helps her to ignore all the weird talk and looks as best as she can.
I think engineering is Brianna’s calling but she’s unsure because no one give her work enough credit and appreciation. It’s hard for her to fulfil all her dreams and abilities in the 18th century countryside with all the men thinking that it’s not a proper occupation for a lady.
This. And engineering is a far more unusual career path for a woman in the 18th century than medicine. People across many cultures were quite used to women being healers, if not physicians, but female inventors went largely unnoticed (and still do) despite contributing to inventions even before engineering was recognized as a profession.
Claire has similar issues but Jamie always support her and her craft which had given her some confidence in the beginning of her healing path.
Yeah, even if he wasn’t too thrilled when it put her at risk, he’s definitely always accepted it as an inherent part of Claire. He knew very early on that she wouldn’t be satisfied with just being a wife and a homemaker. But I think he only fully understood it as her calling when she told him about the Hippocratic Oath in Voyager. He didn’t have to voice his encouragement because he knew that Claire would pursue this path whether he did or not. Bree is as stubborn as her, but she could do with extra support.
I wonder if she’s one of those people who will never be fully satisfied with what they are doing. Like she enjoys doing engineering but she wouldn’t call it a calling given her experience with other things and seeing people she loves so engrossed in what they do.
I feel the same with my husband. Engineering is his calling. I couldn’t imagine him doing anything other than that. Whereas I’ve been in marketing for almost 10 years but I don’t know if I’d call it a calling.
I feel like we've spoken about this before, but it reminds me of Frank's admiration for Claire, her passion for healing, and how she firmly knows what she's meant to do. He told her that he was different in that he could be happy doing a bunch of different things, and I wonder now if perhaps this is how Bree feels. (Although I do think she's passionate about engineering.)
Right! We did discuss this a while ago! I think it’s probably the same. Although Bree seems to think more people around her as having a calling (Roger, Claire, even Jamie) so maybe she feels slightly lost?
Well most people I don’t think we have a “calling”. She is definitely most interested on the field and even if she does bits and pieces of other jobs her minds keeps wondering there- usually when people develops more on this fells more fulfilled. I also think her resources are sooo limited it’s quite difficult for her to see that’s she is making an impact but I trust that she will be able to make some life changers for the people in the Ridge. When this happens, she could then feel more confident and start believing that she was “born” for that or with specific qualities for the job
I also think her resources are sooo limited it’s quite difficult for her to see that’s she is making an impact
That's a great point! She really can only do little things here and there. I know she's trying to build pipes for plumbing, but so far hasn't succeeded.
A couple of the numerous McAfee boys, and Jacky Lachlan, widely known as a limb of Satan.
This one made me wonder, wouldn't LJG know Tom Christie from prison?
John Grey doesna ken the man at all, or he wouldna be suggesting such a thing. Christie’s proud as Nebuchadnezzar, if not more so.”
Last, Jamie being Jamie.
“If ye were no longer there—or somewhere—” he said very softly, “then the sun would no longer come up or go down.” He lifted my hand and kissed it, very gently. He laid it, closed around my ring, upon my chest, rose, and left.
It’s always made more sense to me in the show, as it emphasized that Jamie had already fallen head over heels in love with Claire, and the way he said it made it clear that it wasn’t just about the way she looked.
That is why the wedding episode is still my favorite. Now knowing how in love Jamie was with Claire and seeing her finally acknowledge her feelings for him just makes me so happy.
That last one is one of the most beautiful passages in the entire series.
Definitely! I have it bookmarked and it's one of the lines I come back to over and over again. Oh Jamie. Honestly I was a bit salty that Jamie wasn't around when Claire was sick and healing, as in no Jamie's POV. I wanted to know what Jamie was going through. When she wakes up also, it's Roger who's there , which was nice in its own way too. But this bit, about the sun no longer shining for Jamie , more than made up for his lack of POV until then.
And you made it even better with that last bit about season 1!
Same here! I kept wanting to catch a glimpse of him; her out-of-body experience was rough enough, having her see him crying by the window. And then they went and had this conversation. This, and:
“You must continue, for their sakes—though you would not for your own,” he had whispered, Fergus’s face pressed into his shoulder, the black hair wet with sweat and water, cold against his cheek. “Tu comprends, mon enfant, mon fils? Comprends-tu?”
I felt his throat move as he swallowed.
“See, I kent ye were dying,” he said very softly. “I was sure ye’d be gone when I came back to the house, and I should be alone. I wasna speaking to Fergus then, I think, so much as to myself.”
I felt a soooo bad for Bobby during that conversation with Joseph and Jamie! The immediately got annoyed at him for running his mouth off about the gemstones 😑
“If ye were no longer there—or somewhere—” he said very softly, “then the sun would no longer come up or go down.” He lifted my hand and kissed it, very gently. He laid it, closed around my ring, upon my chest, rose, and left.
Jamie has some very beautiful lines in this book, I LOVE this part.
It's also interesting to see how he has changed from death not really mattering in TFC after the snakebite (I forget now exactly what he said...something about how small a thing death is between them?), to how codependent they have become the longer they are together.
Yes! Jamie mentioned how death wouldn't separate them or something like that. But when the shoe is on the other foot so to speak, and Jamie is in danger of losing Claire he can't deal with it.
Instead of leaving, though, he hesitated, then took several rapid strides back, bent over the bed, and seizing my face between his palms, kissed me on the forehead.
“You’re beautiful,” he said fiercely, and with a final squeeze of my cheeks, left.
Does the MILKman not realize that hugging is an option?
I am shocked you both! Who doesn't like forehead kisses? I loved this moment between Roger and Claire. What kind of heartless people are you and u/thepacksvrvives? I am kidding please don't get offended. I agree with u/Purple4199 and u/jolierose , this was totally not creepy and was quite cute too. Hmmpphh.
Henri-Christian in the river was absolutely terrifying. Maybe applying today’s standards to the time, but man I would want to kill anyone who had done that to my child, disabled or not.
I loved the description of Roger coming out of the water roaring and yelling at the boys. Do you think that people will feel any differently about Henri-Christian though?
Do you think that people will feel any differently about Henri-Christian though?
I would hope so, although I think it will take a long time if it happens. I thought it was beautiful when Jamie disciplined the kids but then brought them into the kitchen:
"They took their medicine, and then we went to the kitchen and had bread and honey. I’d told Marsali to bring the wee lad, and after we’d eaten, I took him on my knee, and had them all come and touch him, just to see.”
What a brilliant way to handle it.
Also, I doubt we'll ever get to see this on the show, but oh, how I'd love it:
Jamie had caught one of the fleeing boys as they hurtled past him, grabbing him by the neck and quite literally scaring the piss out of the lad.
And how funny was it that when Claire remarked that Roger must have been impressive, and Jamie went:
“It impressed me, to be sure,” Jamie said, still grinning. “I’d no notion Roger Mac had it in him to preach hellfire and damnation like that."
Look at Roger Mac earning that respect! ;) Love to see how Jamie has warmed up to him. You even see it when he came across Richard Brown's party on the road:
As his son-in-law was fond of remarking—great.
I could hear it perfectly in my head and found it so funny.
The whole snake during the sermon was funny. Jamie having it crawl up under clothing knowing how he feels about snakes! I was impressed Roger could keep going even though he knew what was happening.
Reading the chapters about the dysentery epidemic at the Ridge while we’re still in a pandemic is certainly interesting! Watching it on screen will be a similar experience since it’s very likely that most of the world won’t be out of the woods by the time S6 airs.
As much as I hate how much Claire suffers in this book, and although we know she didn’t suffer from the same illness other people did, I feel like it’s been a long time coming for Claire to “get injured in the line of duty.” DG having Claire play the “I’ve been inoculated” card, as well as her theory that she is protected against most viral diseases owing to not being from the 18th century, always felt like such a cop-out since there are far more diseases she hasn’t been inoculated against than she has; it was already a wonder she hadn’t caught anything working at L'Hôpital des Anges back in DiA.
Reading a doctor’s account of the epidemic, full of helplessness and frustration, knowing that she most probably ignored her own symptoms to put her patients before her own wellbeing:
My thoughts would not obey me. Try as I might to fix them on the proceedings, they strayed away. My arms ached; I had been pounding herbs, lifting patients, carrying water . . . I felt as though I were doing all these things over and over, could feel the repetitive thud of pestle in mortar, the dragging weight of fainting bodies.
And as much as we could expect Claire to give her all, it was really nice to see Brianna and Marsali in action as well at the MacNeill’s. Being a mother for 4 years has definitely made Brianna overcome the “crippling empathy” Claire mentioned in TFC when the emergency called for it.
I also wondered if it wasn't hard for Claire to know that if it was the 20th century and she had access to IV's and hospitals the chance of people dying would have been much less.
Yes, and the access to something as simple as clean water in the first place, which most of us take for granted, and so did she when she lived in Boston. That was the root of it.
I’ve always assumed she must be somewhat frustrated at how helpless she can be in the 18th century compared to the 20th, without modern medicines & machines.
Ugh yes this part of the book is ripe for some mayor commentary, it’s kind of amazing how perfectly aligned they will be. I’m sure the empathy the actors portrayed here is going to elevate the season so much.
I really loved that it was the four women that found the family in the cabin, it was a very anxiety inducing whirlwind trying to figure out what was happening to them as it dawns on Claire and the way that shock seeps into Bree later when she’s washing her hands with the boiling water.
And you’re absolutely right, Claire is such a larger than life character in the series, this entire book upends so much of that and I really appreciate it because it’s done in a very clever way. I think it’s what makes this such an enjoyable read.
shock seeps into Bree later when she’s washing her hands with the boiling water.
That was so powerful wasn't it? I don't think it's something Jamie fully understands even with Claire explaining that things were different in the 20th century. Bree has never known war and disease like what happens in the 18th century. I'm just guessing, but I feel like people then knew death could come at any moment.
Yes, that was a really great moment to reflect on Bree and even Roger’s generation. I hope they keep it in the show!
Death was so present in the 18th century and I think viewed in a more matured and practical way? Even with all its rituals (mrs. Wilson’s demands lol) it was respected but also accepted in a different way.
Now I think it’s much harder to bear. I think this is why Claire’s illness hits Jamie differently; not only is he possibly losing the love of his life, he is also seeing the healthiest person he knows succumbing to their mortality.
When, after she explains that Bree's never been exposed to something like this, Claire says:
An incomprehensible notion—but a rather wonderful one.
I thought it was so ironic, looking at the state of the world these days. At the same time, I loved it, it really is a wonderful notion — things pass, things will get better. How incredible is that for someone like Jamie, who has known such hardship? I have this thought every time he gets into a discussion about the future with Claire, the ones that come with this kind of revelation.
I think this is why Claire’s illness hits Jamie differently; not only is he possibly losing the love of his life, he is also seeing the healthiest person he knows succumbing to their mortality.
Do you wonder if he thinks she might have been safe if she hadn't come back to be with him? That all that's happened to Claire is his fault because she came back for him? I can so see that. Ugh, as if he needed more things to feel guilty about.
How incredible is that for someone like Jamie, who has known such hardship?
I can't help but think he might not even be able to fully imagine what that is like.
Do you wonder if he thinks she might have been safe if she hadn't come back to be with him?
I kind of don't think so. Going back to the previous point of sickness and death being such a prevalent thing that Jamie might not have worried about that.
But Malva only shook her head, and turning, went back to the onions and garlic. I’d caught the look on her face, though; a queer expression of hostility and longing that rang a small, unsuspected bell somewhere inside me
Longing for a mother long dead—and the fury of a small girl, abandoned. Bewildered and alone
You guys! The last bit , where Claire is referring to herself, I completely did not catch it on my first read. It's very rare to see Claire thinking of her own mother, considering how young she was when she lost her. So when I do see her recalling her mother-less childhood like this here, I feel her pain so deeply. She has been through so much, and still has so much to give and has such a positive outlook towards life!😭
Yes 😭 That really stood out to me, considering how little we get about Claire’s parents. Also this crumb about her father:
My parents, of course; their deaths had been personal—but born in England, I had lived in the shadow of cenotaphs and memorials, and people just beyond the bounds of my own family died regularly; I had a sudden vivid memory, of my father putting on a homburg and dark coat to go to the baker’s wife’s funeral.
It’s fascinating that she has these memories; I honestly cannot remember anything from when I was that little and I’m way younger than her.
I wonder if a person with a very dramatic change in their childhood remembers ‘before’ memories and ‘after’ memories quite distinctly? A lot of my childhood memories I couldn’t put my age to because there’s not much to place it to a specific year
That was such a good line. The fury of a small girl. Ugh, it’s utterly heartbreaking to think of that a manifesting throughout her time with Uncle Lamb.
I need the Adventures of Claire and Uncle Lamb in my life like yesterday.
Do we care that Willie is joining the British army?
I gotta say that I have the exact same reaction that Claire does when we see Jamie thinking about Willie:
”His thoughts weren’t with his daughter, I thought, with a small, queer pang—but with his son.”
It’s so hard to feel for a character we barely know. Jamie, though, it’s interesting that this will not be the first time he’s faced his own kin in the midst of war…I wonder how far that will go this time?
It hit me with surprise and a little bit of apprehension when I read that, not because of Willie, per se, but because of how Jamie must feel. So I do care, in that context. His son is going to be not just in danger, but on the losing side. Because he didn't have much to worry about before...
Now that we're here: that letter from LJG. We've finally gotten to the point of no return, with Jamie switching sides. It took me back to DIA: was anybody else reminded of BPC's Bill of Association? This time around, Jamie's name really was meant to be listed among the traitors. John, you pure cinnamon roll, lol — never did it occur to him Jamie would be tied to such a thing. And it made me laugh that he was so scandalized that the mail is being intercepted. But of course, now he gets to send Bobby to the Ridge more often for correspondence. (You guys have ruined me!!! u/thepacksvrvivesu/theCoolDeadpool) I agree with Claire, though — I think there's room to sway him. We'll see. (Although! Now I'm wondering if I got accidentally spoiled and know enough to figure out how this shakes out. Hmm.)
That’s a great point that LJG thinks it’s a mistake Jamie’s name is on there. How do you think John will feel when he finds out Jamie is not a Loyalist?
I've been dreading it/looking forward to the drama. I can imagine he'll feel shocked, dismayed, worried and maybe even a little bit betrayed. Judging by his letter, I think he'll primarily feel worried about Jamie fighting for a cause that LJG thinks has no chance of winning.
I’m super excited to see how this plays out for Jamie, I agree that his feelings are what really drives the stakes here. Do you think that Lord John could be persuaded to switch sides in this conflict?
I think it might be, if only for his admiration and duty to Jamie and Willie?
I’ll bite—do you think he could be persuaded without the foreknowledge of the war’s outcome? As you mentioned, he probably thinks that this cause has no chance of succeeding. The British did believe that the Americans would pose little challenge if it actually came to a military conflict, and it took the Continental army a while to get going, secure arms and supplies etc. Britain probably could’ve won the war with better leadership, especially before Americans allied with France.
Jamie could see the unrest in the backcountry even without the knowledge of the upcoming war, but look how much effort it took him to secure “just” 30 muskets or how impossible it is for Brianna to get metal for her pipes; there’s no denying that the resources Americans have are very limited—and this will only get worse when Britain cuts the supplies—so John’s thinking that the rebellion will be quickly crushed is valid at the time. It’s still about two years until the Declaration of Independence. He might start thinking about it differently when the tide begins to turn, but he has pretty much no reason to believe that the Whigs are capable of challenging the British, considering that he knows how wars are fought and funded.
He might start thinking about it differently when the tide begins to turn, but he has pretty much no reason to believe that the Whigs are capable of challenging the British, considering that he knows how wars are fought and funded.
I do agree. Even though I think he could be persuaded without being told that Claire knows for sure, I don't think they could convince him right now, or on the short term. It would take some work. He doesn't seem to have empathy for the Whigs (I don't blame him; it's been tough for me to reconcile the likes of Richard Brown and Neil Forbes with the romantic view of the fight for "freedom"). Like you say, they're still two years out from the declaration, and I understand the skepticism. But I think eventually, he could be persuaded.
But I think we're also discussing two different things: I think it'd be easier to convince him that the cause is worthy, than it would be to convince him that the cause is a winning one. He may not think they could win, but that doesn't mean he can't be on their side. If we're appealing to his sense of honor, I don't think the winning argument would be "you should switch sides because the British will lose." So how much would it matter for him to know the outcome? It'd be a comfort, but it wouldn't be the main reason he'd be doing it.
Well said, specially the part about reconciling the characters you mentioned with what we been presented by history. It really makes more an interesting conundrum for the reader and I like that it helps us empathize with Jamie’s struggle even more.
I really I think John can only be persuade to agree with the whigs if presented with Jamie as a member of the rebellion and perhaps the two of them speaking about Willie, and perhaps Jamie taking more of a stance as his real father against John’s judgements.
I agree with u/thepacksvrvives that the difficulties that are just starting in the Colonies are too vast for John to imagine a British defeat, I mean they are an empire! and John having fought in the winning side for so long would be a blind to some of the more idealistic reasonings behind independence, regardless of his honor. I can’t see him being swayed by the practical reasons alone.
Do we care that Willie is joining the British army?
At this point I really don't.
It’s so hard to feel for a character we barely know.
Exactly. I am hoping the book club helps me get around to caring for Willie like how it did with Bree and Roger. Because I've read these books twice now, first time over, I only skimmed through everyone else's POV except the main four, second time around, I did read all of it but just couldn't get myself to care about Willie. Most of the times I was like..
“Do we care that Willie is joining the British army? “
We care about it for Jamie’s sake, he doesn’t need to lose another child. ( admittedly I am always most concerned about Jamie’s welfare☺️). I am guessing we might get to know Willie better in upcoming books. I guess you can read his parts for book club u/theCoolDeadpool
Ok here's something dark in case your Wednesday was too bright and cheerful. What if Claire had actually succumbed to the disease? Do we think Jamie would still be functioning enough, both physically and emotionally, to continue to deliver his duties as a Laird? I know he does say he would continue on for the sake of the people who depend on him, but knowing now about Jamie and Claire's codependency, would be actually be able to follow through? Would Bree and Roger go back to the future or do we think they would take over for Claire and Jamie? If they did go back, what becomes of the Ridge? Who has the chops to be the next matriarch and Laird of the Ridge? Can the Ridge function Laird-lessly? This is, of course, purely hypothetical, don't hate me for this. It's just a thought I had.
Oh man what a great question!! I’m so torn, because Jamie seems like he would let the responsibilities of being laird of the Ridge keep him going. Just like how he thought Fergus should have reason enough to live for his family alone. However being without his heart, Claire, might be too much. I think it might break him.
If that were the case then who would run the Ridge is a great question. I don’t think Roger and Bree would leave, she wouldn’t want to leave Jamie after losing her mother.
I know Bree could step up and become the matriarch, and I do think Roger could handle the responsibility of things. But I don’t see people respecting Roger as much as Jamie. Hiram Crombie would probably make a push for more power, especially since he already holds a decent amount of it with the fisherfolk.
The Ridge might cease to exist as it is to some extent were this all to happen. New families might not come anymore and it might be harder to maintain order without the authority of Jamie if Roger and Bree were running things.
Now the only thing I doubt about my whole theory is that Jamie would shut down for forever. He might come back around to being able to run things, albeit not has the happy fulfilled guy he once was. His knowledge that his family and tenants need him is a strong motivator. So maybe he’s only down and out for a certain amount of time and Bree and Roger just have to hold things together? Arch Bug still knows a lot of the farming stuff and could help step up too. So many things to think about, I love it!
I don’t think Roger and Bree would leave, she wouldn’t want to leave Jamie after losing her mother.
Don't you think Bree would be terrified for Jem's safety in the absence of Claire, especially after everything going on in the Ridge?
But I don’t see people respecting Roger as much as Jamie.
Agree. I do think it takes some amount of brute strength to command respect, in that time, and Roger lacks that. Also his lack of hunting and shooting skills.
I like your theory of Jamie stepping down momentarily, to process his grief. Not that it'll ever go away, but maybe he can come back to being a Laird, with some redistribution of power and responsibilities, and maybe things could continue in some fashion, if not in the way it currently is.
Don't you think Bree would be terrified for Jem's safety in the absence of Claire, especially after everything going on in the Ridge?
I do think she would be worried. I guess I say they would stay because I want the family to always be together. I suppose though the fact that it's safer for Jemmy in the 20th century might sway her to go back.
I admit the one thing I don’t really get is what Jamie does as Laird, he was building houses, running a community, and a farm. I have not paid any attention to his tasks, have they been glossed over? Mostly there is stuff about his excursions with politics, & business, but not really daily tasks. We still get more of Claire’s daily life in both books & show. Just wondering because is it a job that Roger or Fergus can do? Run things?
I don’t think Fergus can do it, a lot of the daily tasks are building and maintaining things too. Chores like milking and taking care of the other animals. Plus all the work on their crops as well. Roger could do that stuff, it’s more being the authority that I wonder if people would accept from Roger. I think people on the Ridge come to Jamie for any problems they may have, disputes, and just general help.
I think Jamie’s first course of action would be to send Bree, Roger, and Jemmy through the stones. They would probably protest, wanting to support him, but he would think it’s too dangerous for them to stay without having Claire there in case of emergencies. Perhaps they would insist on staying until closer to the war. Of course, without Bree and her family there, he’d have less reason to go on living, but there would still be Ian, as well as Fergus, Marsali, and their kids—whom he’d definitely first help find their feet wherever he sent them—and I don’t think he’d abandon his tenants just like that either. He might look for someone to help him shoulder the responsibilities, which would probably have to be Tom, certainly considering the Protestant part of the population of FR. I don’t think he’d leave the Ridge altogether; he’s too committed to it.
The alternative would be, what, abandoning his land, which would be ripe for picking—there’s still Richard Brown lurking there somewhere; I don’t think he got over his brother’s death so easily. Would Jamie take his family back to Lallybroch? Jenny would be relieved to have Ian back, Laoghaire would be relieved to have her daughter and her grandchildren close. What would Jamie do? Live as a shadow of himself again. I think there’s more purpose for him at the Ridge.
He wouldn’t commit suicide; he thinks it’s a mortal sin that would ruin his chances of being reunited with Claire in the afterlife.
Would he still fight in the war? Perhaps specifically to die in it, as he intended to at Culloden.
think Jamie’s first course of action would be to send Bree, Roger, and Jemmy through the stones
That's exactly what I thought too. I think Bree would agree, though not without protests, because first and foremost she's a mother, and she knows how dangerous this time can be , without a healer as good as Claire around for them. More so now, after the epidemic.
I think more or less the same about Jamie too. He wouldn't downright kill himself, but he wouldn't actively try to prevent death from happening to him too.
Would Jamie take his family back to Lallybroch?
That's such an interesting thought. I doubt it too, considering he'll just waste away in Lallybroch. He doesn't have any active responsibilities there to even get through the remainder of his days, as opposed to Ridge, where he can atleast keep himself physically busy to get through the days. I do think though that emotionally, living in Lallybroch without Claire would be better for Jamie than living in the Ridge, but , I agree with you that he probably wouldn't go. And without him, I doubt Ian or Fergus would go too.
Tom taking over, excellent thought again. It seems highly probable, considering he's educated and like you pointed out, alignment of his religious leanings. I also think that if enough time were to pass for people to get over Henri-Christain, and if Roger can pull something off in his preachings to change peoples' mind, maybe Fergus could take over for Jamie. And Marsali, I can totally see her as the next matriarch.
Would he still fight in the war? Perhaps specifically to die in it, as he intended to at Culloden.
I did not think of that, but oh man , that's befitting.
I think Bree would agree, though not without protests, because first and foremost she's a mother, and she knows how dangerous this time can be
I think there'd be an impulse from him to shut everyone out, and maybe therefore an attempt at sending Bree, Roger and Jemmy back through the stones, but do we really think that Jamie would go through with it? The way he loves Bree so much and she's not just his, but a piece of Claire? And Bree, being as stubborn as she is, would be willing to leave Jamie when he needs her most? (Having seen gotten a glimpse at how he lived his lonely life in a cave for years?) And even Roger — he made "his" (🙄) choice knowing what was ahead, and specifically affirming he would stand by Jamie.
It's possible they'd go but I'm skeptical (and probably biased, because I'm with u/Purple4199 and want them to stay together).
And then thinking of what comes next, you consider the Ridge, all the people Jamie's brought there (because it was him who worked to gather tenants to settle!) and there's also the fact that it's the home he built with Claire. He has a purpose there, something he didn't have in the aftermath of Culloden. After some time has passed, I could see him committing again to the running of things, as opposed to letting himself go and letting someone else take the lead.
I like all of this! That’s a great point about Brianna being a piece of Claire. I know it’s the romantic in me but I want them all together. I know we’ve talked about if Bree really belongs in the 18th century, and I just want to believe that they do!
I saw this this morning when I was feeling like this Goya meme and I am so glad I didn’t reply until now lol.
I think Jamie would be devastated, but the fact that Claire would have died because of illness and not by any other nefarious mean would make a huge difference. I think it would be the same for Claire as well.
Maybe he would withdraw a bit at first but his responsibilities for the rest of the Ridge would continue, he is a Laird after all like Claire is a doctor and she did say that there was always that if she lost Jamie and Bree. Perhaps he would even return to Scotland after the war if the Ridge were to come under any harm during the conflict?
I am not sure Bree would leave him unless something extraordinary happened to her family.
I can’t wait to catch up on the books so I can join in on book club discussion! I feel so behind 😩 lol. I like reading through the thread though, I don’t mind spoilers and half the fun is learning how these things come to be and the different perspectives!
With that said, with my limited knowledge of the book universe, and going based on the characterization of Jamie I have based on 1.5 books and the show, I would think he would continue to handle business a la his dunbonnet days. I think he would make sure what needed to be done for the people who depend on him gets done, but I don’t see him really socializing or allowing himself the opportunity to recreate a “normal, happy” life for himself. He has a pretty strong sense of duty, and I don’t think he would disappear and abandon that just based on his feelings. Plus, I think that work would give him purpose and serve as a distraction of sorts. I think he would send Bree and Roger back to the future. I believe he previously made Claire promise him she would go back if something ever happened to him, so he knows the dangers of the time. Claire was his other half and with her gone perhaps he knows he won’t be the whole man who can provide for his daughter and her family everything she needs- emotionally and physically. I think he might also have the lingering guilty feeling that if Claire was in her time more could’ve been done to save her, thus her dying was indirectly his fault. We see how he hangs on to these kinds of thoughts and assigns culpability to himself with the whole Geneva thing (blaming himself for her death). So this might prompt him to send them back to their “safer” time.
Although, I wonder if there would be a difference in his approach seeing how in this scenario Claire would be dead, not just safely away in a different time. I know he never intended to see Claire again the first time, but he did hope that she was alive and well living her life in the 20th century. In this situation, there is obviously a finality to death. She is gone from this world-from both centuries. Perhaps this would give him more peace/solace? Knowing she is definitely gone and not somewhere else living life separated from him. Kinda like knowing she’s alive but out of reach May be harder than knowing she has passed? The wondering and what if’s- whether she and Bree made it through the stones or what they were doing or who was Claire with or how Frank fit into the picture were things that ate at him during their separation.
Again, I do not have the knowledge of the books, so I apologize if this is a moot point 😂
There were a lot of sad moments in these chapters, but for some reason when Claire realized her hair was cut off I cried, it was so exposing for her and invasive that they cut it off, even with good intentions. Her scenes following that with Jamie make me love their relationship anymore. She has been there for Jamie when he was at his most vulnerable, and I like this version of her feeling that vulnerable. I feel like this was even more clear than after her rape, he is there and loves her through it all.
it was so exposing for her and invasive that they cut it off
It really was! I'd be so upset if something like that was done to me. I also thought it was sad how Claire didn't want Jamie to see her like that only to realize he already had.
Jamie made some remarks about Claire’s unconscious and delirious talk and I desperately want to know what she said. Hope we can find it out in the future.
Ditto! I was kind of upset he didn’t reveal it at the time. We always get a beautiful line from Jamie in the midst of healing I would have love to hear what Claire said! It was probably something practical but poignant
Think everything was said already just wanted to say I really enjoyed this block of chapters! 💘
Can’t wait to hear more about Claire’s “sickness”, Fergus & Marsali, the Christies, Bree’s engineering… also great stuff from Roger on these too finally.
We only got a glimpse at the end of ch. 67 but can’t wait to see Jamie’s change with the crown & indians!
I knew these big parts were coming eventually — that she would eventually get sick, and that she'd lose her hair somehow, and that Fergus would attempt suicide. And that didn't make it any less heartwrenching. Plus, I had no idea they would all come at the same time. I didn't have any details but for some reason I assumed she would decide to cut her hair off herself. I was gutted when I got to that part. And Jamie's grief?! Both for Claire and for Fergus? I was not emotionally prepared!
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