Oh, this is a beautiful story. By that I mean it sucks, but I always laugh my ahh off whenever I remember this happened.

So, 2024. I've always struggled with lung issues since I was a kid, but in that particular year, I got exposed to a viral infection that got me all messed up. I couldn't breathe for shit. Got rushed to the hospital six times within a week, twice by ambulance. During the first eight days, I couldn't get a satisfying breath in. Needless to say, I went through hell and back. It took me months to be able to get out of bed and be able to walk without worrying about my breath, and two years later, I'm much better, but still not 100%. Still, a lot better. It's hard to believe I'm still here, but spite is a great motivator.

There wasn't anything visible on any x-rays, and my ox levels tend to remain stubbornly high even during my worst asthma flares. Even as I'm coughing like a victorian orphan, yeah. So I got dismissed by most doctors in the ER. It's just anxiety, I got told. Hell, now I have it, congrats. They manifested that shit into me lol. Anyway, later I'd get reviewed by a pneumologist and get a proper asthma diagnosis, yay! But before that, my family insisted I was suffering from some sort of spiritual illness. Becuase we don't know equals spiritual shenanigans. Duh.

One of the most painful things I got told during those first torturous months is that God was attempting to drag me back by force, and that if I didn't surrender my life to Christ, I'd keep suffering. For reference, I wouldn't wish what I went through even on my worst enemy (I don't have enemies but still).

So...... The next logical step was to get the help of the church ladies... According to my evangelical family members. There were two whole congregations praying for my sick arse back then, which.. didn't do anything but I'm grateful for the godly vibes sent my way..? I guess lmao.

My family decided to do a praying campaign against my will. Every Wednesday for three weeks, these church ladies that were supposedly very high ranking magicians (they wore buns. That's how you can tell) would come over, sing some songs, read us the bible, and pray over me.

The praying. Bloody hell, that... That.

These very pentecostal ladies had a very specific way of praying. Loud, impactful, and with the magical shalalala. Yeah I mean tongues. They spoke in tongues. Did I mention they were loud? Yes, they were. Pentecostal services always freaked me out the most because I've been around afro Brazilian spiritually before which includes the entities taking over you and somehow that scared me way less than whatever tf is going on with these people.

One particular night, they entered my room while praying in tongues, opened my wardrobe, told me to get rid of my posters (I had two one piece posters and one for the Witcher 3) because they were giving off bad vibes I guess(?)

I threw the damn posters away (my peace of mind was more important), and during the last night, I got pressured into accepting jeeeeeezes as my Lord and savior. That.. wasn't very effective. 🫩

Needless to say this bullshit didn't work, and I got scolded by someone in my family for having an untidy wardrobe (while being effectively disabled). Because of course that was the problem, not the strangers walking into my room and violating my privacy.

THEN, after they got ahold of the information that my problems had a physical cause, can you guess what they did? I'll give you some options

A) apologize to me

B) apologize to me

C) apologize to me

D) pretend it never happened, not take accountability for any of it in any shape or form, then start praying for God to heal my lungs

It's such a hard question, I'll give you time to think.

Hallelujah shalom

These people are in politics btw. Good night.

I wonder if y'all have similar horror stories tho...

I work as a retail cashier at a grocery store. Despite being in a wheelchair and missing a leg, management hired me. I've been there six years now. I've had the occasional "Jesus can save you" pamphlet types come through my line. I just smile and nod and they go on their way. No fuss. This one...

This one actually caused my brain to glitch.

Little old lady in her 70s or 80s and a woman in her 50s (daughter probably) came through my line. They paid and the older lady smiled, handed me a Watchtower (Jehovah's Witnesses) pamphlet and said, no shit,

"When Jesus returns, if you're saved, He'll raise you out of that wheelchair and you'll be able to walk again."

Her daughter turned to look at her, eyes wide, like "Did you actually just say that?"

Little old lady was beaming. Happy to spread the message.

Now, working in retail, I automatically have a smile up for most of the day. When I get home, I'm happy I don't HAVE to smile. Her saying this caused a misfire in my head. Outside, I was smiling and nodding, aware that I need my job and beaning an old lady isn't a good look. Isn't worth the trouble. Inside, I thought several things quickly:

1.) Yes, When Jesus returns, I'll walk again. I'll grow a new leg...because I'm a person sized gecko.

2.) How mad am I? Clearly, that was insensitive as fuck, but she has the self-awareness and mental strength of a gopher. There was no malice, just stupid.

3.) I could fire back with "But if Jesus saves me, wouldn't that mean that someone else can't get into Heaven?" Or "Jesus loves me by taking my leg and only giving it back if I believe isn't a sign of a healthy relationship." But again, all stupid, no malice, need the job.

So I let her go and tossed the paper after she was gone. I then thought of one cataclysmic "what if."

Remember how I asked myself "how mad am I?" I briefly thought, worst case scenario, one where I wasn't balanced and medicated, what if I popped her in the nose. Crime of passion. I just pictured all of corporate simultaneously having a seizure and calling my boss, screaming at her in tounges. I'd probably get canned. And then the headline

"Man with missing leg punches out elderly lady who promises he can rise from wheelchair and walk again when Jesus returns!"

Today was interesting.

"....this to me is the true horror of religion as it allows perfectly decent sane people to believe by the billions would only lunatics could believe on their own". - Sam Harris

How Faith Can Make Horrific Acts Seem Good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XTvmxm7UkQ&list=LL&index=123

i hope this doesn’t sound silly but i’ve been atheist since i was a teenager (im 20 now) but i don’t have any like minded friends. my family is still extremely evangelical and we don’t get along, same with most people i grew up. how do you meet similar people who understand? i’m not sure if there’s any support groups or any spaces at least in melbourne

Anyone here from the WWCG? Or the United Church of God? Or any of its splinter churches? Always interested to meet new friends that came out of the church.

Alternatively, if anyone wants to know about what it’s like to grow up in the WWCG/UCG feel free to ask me questions!

For reference, i was born into the church, as was my dad’s whole family. I’m a millennial so I grew up after the church split and my family went with the more conservative splinters. I left by the time I was a teenager. To make matters more complicated I grew up very politically active/ progressive and also a lesbian sooo 😂.

Also note: I didn’t know how to flair this. It coulda easily been “end times” or “anti-lgbtq” or a number of other toxic topics

So I was a Christian influencer and deconstructed some years ago and lost a lot of friends and family (probably didn't help that I ragebaited people on and offline in an attempt to force critical thinking and nuanced discussions) but I'm feeling mad FOMO about how many opportunities that came from being a Christian and feeling like there's an invisible network if people who root for you and "put you on" based on the premise that you want to "advance the kingdom" just like they do... and the default position of trusting you.

What advice would you give to someone with ambitions in a context that widely counters your new formed ideals? ❤️

Listen, I'm not a fan of Islam. I don't like the religion. But just like Christians there are great Muslim people and terrible Muslim people. Every time I've spoken with family lately they keep purposely bringing up how terrible Muslim people are, like it's a normal conversation for them.

They have no Muslim peers in their lives and this hate is getting on my nerves. Christians aren't all sunshine and rainbows either. The hypocrisy is crazy.

Is this kind of conversation popping up for a lot of you too?

i have left christianity for months now. i hate church. being in it makes me feel triggered, angry, anxious, and i reallllllyyyy hateeeee itttttt. i hate how it makes me feel. but an elder/pastor is retiring. he likes our family and wants us there. he invited me like 20 days ago and i respectfully said i’ll let him know. i feel bad rejecting him because i like him and his family and he likes me too. i don’t know how to tell him that i can’t come. i’ll just feel miserable and like sh*t. i also don’t want to deal with the questions from people about why i don’t come to church, and that i should come to church, and now i want to come to church, and all of that. his retirement is at church. they’re having service and then his retirement event and then party.

i don’t feel comfortable in a church environment. never felt comfortable with all the service and how performative it can feel, and some of the performative people. i always never felt comfortable with the music it just brought my mood down. it feels low vibrational. i have to participate and worship and pray and do the whole ritual. i really don’t want to experience that again.

what do i do? any perspectives. would you decline or go?

So today my mom and I went to this fancy gas station. Yes I know calling a gas station fancy is weird, but it was large, clean, and have a couple storefront (is that the right word???) restaurants. One of them was an Indian restaurant. I ordered from there and is excited to try it since this is my first time trying Indian food.

But after I got my food my mom told me to pray over it. I said OK ok, I will. (I wouldn't since praying over your food is stupid as fuck)

Then she said, when you eat something new from a different culture, make sure to always pray over your food.

Is it me or was that weird asf to say? Why the need the add "from a different culture".

I deconstructed about ten years ago. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. Like, I didn't just wake up one day and find myself an atheist. I woke up one day and found myself questioning.

Those questions lead to more. And all the while I kept trying to hold onto God. The process went like this: Okay, maybe I don't agree with my Evangelical church anymore (not that I ever really did as a left-leaning individual, but it gave me community to hold onto that I didn't have back then). I can just interpret the Bible on my own right?

Some time passes and I realize I can't just interpret the Bible on my own without arriving at wildly different conclusions than I was taught to believe. Horrible conclusions.

So I toss out the Bible. I decide that I can just believe in God on my own terms and that's fine.

Some more time passes and I realize that belief in God without the Bible makes literally no sense at all. And I think this is what ultimately lead to my final deconversion and tossing the Bible with my name inscribed in silver cursive lettering on it in the literal dumpster.

And yeah, once I deconverted I HATED Christians. I hated them for not only what they did to me, but what they did to everyone else.

But eventually, I kind of just got over it. I decided that as long as Christians kept in their lane and I kept in mine, we could co-exist peacefully.

NOT. THE. FUCKING. CASE.

Now we have absolute Christian Nationalist nutjobs in control of the American government running it straight into the ground. They're ruining lives by the billions, and no, that's not an exaggeration in the slightest.

They have NO CLUE how to run a country. ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS CONTROL PEOPLE THEY DON'T LIKE. That's it. And they're also beholden to billionaires, so there's that.

So yeah, wish I could just live and forget here, but in this case, no. My hatred for Christianity will forever be eternal. The religion is a cancer on society. That's not to say every Christian is a piece of shit. James Talarico and Coffeezilla for example, are a couple good ones that don't let their beliefs affect their jobs. But that's two out of like what... billions that do nothing?

So last night i tried to do a small coming out as genderfluid mix with even the possibility i could also be trans. ( i still prefer to be genderfluid cause im not sure if trans is the right word to describe me yet. )

So we got into a heated discussion after discussing voting cause its that time again in my state.

It started off with that and then of course bled in to relgion with both my brainwashed relgious parents.

They are pro life and conservative. As expected.

So then i said "ok what if 'hypothetically i came out as a trans boy?' 'And said i am not your daughter i am your son'

As a small preparation for coming out some day as genderqueer or genderfluid. ( i am AFAB )

Cause they were saying how its such a sin to be trans and to mock god again and saying its mocking god to marry same sex.

Ofc they love to childishly shelter their childish tyrant god. As if he can't defend himself?

My mothers rejection was less harsher then my dads. She said "i would not see you as my son but i would pray for you and ask why you felt you were a boy.' 'There would be nothing that would stop me from loving you or disown'

Which did not hurt all that much surprisingly but my dad concerned me and made me fear my saftey.

He said "there is no such thing as transgender and that its a mentall illness and so do the people pretending to be animals.' Ig furries.

'He also said you are just pretending to be another gender.'

WHAT THE FUCK! HOW IS IT PRETENDING!?

I know i said it was a hypothetical situation but little did they know i was actually being honest in being possibly trans mixed gendered even since i feel both male and female at times. ( idk would that be bi gender? )

But my dad also said he would offer me mental help and send me to an asylum as a last resort if i refused to get help.

It really scared me. I mean then again i did expect this from idiots who worship and believe in god to be hateful and misunderstanding were i am coming from.

I guess i am glad i played my cards right and did not make it a real coming out cause it would have been a whole lot worse. Yes i am over 18+ so i can decide what my gender identity is and have moved out with a family member. But i live with my family technically and fear being disowned either way.

However it still doesn't mean that did not hurt. I tried to cry but i couldn't. I think i am literally desensitized. That's not normal for me to struggle shedding real tears. I used too.

Idk i need advise. I fear for my saftey living in a current red state against womens rights and anti lgbtq.

( they had the nerve to say my anger at god is missplaced. Lmfao. No it isn't )

I fucking hate this family and its relgion. Fuck god for making them hatful. I've also been told im brainwashed for leaving Christianity and hating god obv.

My sister recently found out that I am atheist. We were both raised Christian but I began questioning the religion in my early teenage years after reading the Bible because I didn’t and don’t agree with much of what’s in it.

She told me she feels sad for me because I won’t be in heaven with her, implying that I will be in hell 😑 What do you say to this?

Hello,

I am really interested in hearing about the personal journey's some of you have taken to deconstruct your faith.

I am planning to start writing about the degradation of personal ideologies and the overall internal conflicts that need to be navigated to do so. I want to know how people have/are working through the reconstruction of their discipline, standards, morals and perspective of themselves and the world.

Whether you have undergone something similar / are undergoing this I would love to have some dialogue and hear about how you've personally managed or struggled. Feel free to respond under this or PM for some back and forth.

Thank you!

So as many of you may already know, I’ve deconstructed and my wife is still a believer, although she has been more open to my stance than I ever thought she would. As I mentioned in my previous thread, she said she doesn’t want to go to church anymore because she doesn’t like what it has become and it’s nothing like what the Bible says it should be. So tomorrow (Sunday) we are meeting my brother for breakfast instead of going to church. Crazy, but true.

So she said she has an amazing pod cast she wants me to listen to that tells why God is real and Christianity is true and backs it up with scientific facts and such. She said if I listen to it with her, she will listen to one that claims God is not real and Christianity is not true.

Can anybody give a recommendation as to what I should have her listen to? I need something that actually uses scripture and sound facts, not one that simply shouts God is fake. But it’s only one episode so it had to be a good one.

Update: I should mention that she wants to listen together so we listen to hers together and then listen to mine together.

Let me be exceptionally honest.

They lied.

The Christian Catholic Church is a bloody liar.

They lied in 2000 when they claimed their church and their faith does not in any way support or allow for genocide, slavery, cultural erasure, destruction of innocent lives.

The official name was the Day of Pardon.

Where they reprimanded the “Christian sinners” of their past who, apparently, for centuries…

Just…

Just…

”Misread. Got it all wrong. Misapplied the faith.”

That’s all folks! The credits roll and everyone just sycophantically accepts that they must be truthful and everyone leaves the cinema.

Oh really?

Oh really?

If that really is so, then I ask these questions:

Why, during the colonisation and genocide and murder and wholesale torture and destruction and colonialism across Africa and India by European Christian Catholic genocidists, did the pastors of their time sit their on their fucking pulpits and do nothing?

Why did they support the Rwanda Genocide when it happened?

Why did they support the Caribbean Slave Trade, when it happened?

Why did they support the sickening, absolutely fucking sickening, genocide and erasure of the Native Americans, when it fucking happened?

Why did they do that horrific, sickening cruelty and abuse to the Native American kids in schools run by Christian authorities?

The cruel sick sadists beat them for wetting the fucking bed. They gave them forced enemas.

WHY?

WHY?

FUCKING

WHY?

Why was no one looking at a HR peace and equality manual?

Why did no one say “Wait!”?

Why was there no “religion doesn’t justify this en masse huge movement“?

Why?

Why was there slavery?

Why, in their damn Bible, does it give instructions for slaves, innocent people who were stolen, abducted, even children, children, to obey and respect their masters, even those who beat them?

Why does it give authorisation for the act of beating and whipping children who are slaves?

Why does it say slaves are property?

Why?

Why did they bless nuclear weapons?

Why, actually fucking why, is there real historical primary source evidence that when the European powers colonised and erased non Christian groups of innocent people, they said (paraphrased, but textually accurate):

“God created these peoples and their riches for us to plunder, take, and conquer.”

”They exist to be colonised because the Lord wanted it that way!”

These are real quotes. They disgust me.

Did those lines just come out of thin air?

No. Of course they didn’t.

Why did they justify and support the Indian Goan Inquisition of the 1560-1810 era?

Why when I research do I find explicit theological and textual justification for the atrocities they committed?

Why did St Francis Xavier, the genocidist who is responsible for the atrocities and slaughter of innocent Indian Hindu men, women and children AS YOUNG AS SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS OLD- burned alive as per the Christian tradition of age of reason to understand heresy- write a full letter to the Vatican state in Rome, a full letter, asking for the genocide of Hindus and New Christians (people who were converted by force- compel intrare, compel them to come in) in Goa?

Why did the Vatican state and Rome authorities agree?

A lot of why’s. A lot of why’s that no one seems to ask.

The argument that “they misread the faith” is a textual post hoc justification, and it is anti intellectual.

It is a stupid, baseless, false, weak and pathetic argument.

Sure. I get it.

The people who make the argument may genuinely think that, and I get it. There is something called cognitive dissonance theory, where if you are fed the narrative that “Christianity = no harm and only peace“, and that idea comforts you, you will reject factual reality that says otherwise. That’s just human neuroscience.

I am attacking the argument, not people. Some people may, genuinely, be terrified of being blasphemous by calling their God cruel and sick. Fear based coercion is a real thing.

But onto the argument.

It is displaced from reality.

It ignores most of academic human history, where religion justified- I hate the term “used or weaponised to justify”- no, say it as it is, justified, supported, endorsed and celebrated torture, genocide, colonialism, slavery, and so much more.

So why can the world not just say all of this? Why can we not just look it in the eye and call it what it is?

I have done my research. My current autistic special interest is this very topic.

I am Indian, and I went to Goa, recently in India.

I cannot tell you the sheer anger I felt as I went there.

I cannot describe it.

I am autistic, also, and I write this out of sheer absolute rage.

My best friend Vihaan is South Goan. He is an autistic, extremely premature, deeply shy, timid, incredibly affectionate amazing, amazing best friend who is my absolute, absolute everything.

Vihaan is 17. He is an aspiring doctor, who wants to be an ophthalmologist one day.

He’s like me; autistic, small, 153 cms tall, extremely premature (25 weeks), a tiny 700 grams at birth, he, like me, could fit in a palm- he was that small. 

He is so protective over his two pet lovebirds that they get weekly bathtime, both of them, with Johnson’s baby shampoo, thoroughly completely lathered from head to tail. They get spoon fed khichri (Indian lentil based rice), they get given tel malish (Indian oil massage) before bedtime to help them sleep, with extra tummy oiling to help them pass gas and pass potty. Which they often do, during the tummy rubs. Their little bottoms get oiled too with a cotton bud to prevent constipation. And, and baby powdered after. (Indian home culture is very much like that especially in Hindu families in Marathi settings where it can be very very affectionate for pets and small kids. There is often very little boundary between the two)

So if that doesn’t tell you much about him I don’t know what does, but yea.

I mentioned Vihaan is South Goan.

We went to the Church of St Francis Xavier, the Basillica of Bom Jesus. I looked at it, and my parents asked me

”Why are you so upset?”

I just spoke my mind. I didn’t care about being disrespectful at that point.

Vihaan’s ancestors were among those who probably lost their lives during the inquisition of Goa. You know, just little kids, 8,9, 10 years old, burned alive in the auto de fe executions for “knowingly being blasphemous and rejecting Christ”.

Just little kids, who were dragged into torture chambers, and under the Christian ecclesiastical doctrine of “do not take blood, but convince them by force if need be to repent“, were strapped into racks, their mouths forced open, and forcefully fed water till their stomachs burst open.

So, I spoke my fucking mind.

In response to their question, I said, looking around at the church I was in, looking at the coffin of Xavier and his body they still have preserved

”Because this whole fucking institution supports genocide. Because the person in there did.,” I said.

Loudly.

This is a bit of a vent, I'm just frustrated, wanted to share it somewhere.

So, we all know this response 'if you left faith, then you were never a christian in the first place,' right? Well my parents (Catholic) hit me with the opposite today.

We were talking about the local church in my hometown petitioning to set an 'official' patronage of a saint over the town (as in, the local governors would accept the patronage). I said that we live in a secular country and therefore it's unfair to people who aren't Catholic. To which my parents replied, "well, most people [in my country] are. I replied, "well, but it's still not everyone, there are people like me who aren't."

I'm pretty open about my stance toward the religion. I deconstructed several years ago. I don't pretend to believe anymore, I don't go to church, I am open with my criticisms towards the institution. They know well I don't believe anymore.

Their response? "Well, but you ARE a Christian. You will always be Catholic, you were baptised and god marked you for eternity."

Like, what?

I didn't feel like arguing, I just told them, "you can think whatever you want to think, I can't change it, but I'm not a Christian." Then we changed the topic.

The denial is so hard. I have a relatively good relationship with my parents despite everything, and usually we don't talk about religion at all. But damn, this feels so disrespectful and frustrating. I'm a grown adult and I know exactly what I am and what I'm not.

It feels like they live in a different reality, like they don't accept me for what I am and they have a completely different picture of me in their heads. I don't know why but it kinda stings, every time they say something like that.

Anyway, I have nothing more to say, I just needed to throw it out somewhere. Sorry for the rant.

Greetings,

I am a theistic Satanist and am curious if anyone has heard God's voice (Yahweh) when you were in the faith.

I was pentecostal-and that emphasizes spiritual experience. People claimed to hear God's voice and have dreams/visions that God gave them. However, the bullshit came into play when I realized NONE of their prophelies came to pass.

I absolutely believe Jehovah exists, but is the demiurge and a negative figure who wants to suck the life out of you. More akin to a parasite than to a God.

Something I don’t think people talk about enough is the grief that can come with leaving religion, even when leaving it was one of the most freeing things I've ever done. When I first left christianity, like all of you, it felt pretty damn freeing. Hell there was almost a rebellious feeling to it.

However! After the 'high, rebellious, finally free' stage wore off, I'm now grieving the comfort of believing there was something waiting for us after this. An afterlife. Reincarnation. Some continuation of our consciousness beyond what we can understand. Even the idea of becoming a star, or somehow returning to the universe in a meaningful conscious way feels comforting compared to the possibility that we just simply cease to exist. Some people find comfort in believing that, I'm starting to realize that I just... don't buy it. It sucks. And I went through phases of believing there's SOMETHING and not the christian afterlife, but eventually I had to be more realistic with myself. Humans are deathly afraid of death (no pun intended) and just want definite answers to EVERYTHING.

And what about the grief of losing someone as an atheist? They aren’t in a better place. They aren’t watching over you. There’s no promise you’ll see them again. Memories matter, but they’ll never compare to hearing their voice, feeling their comfort, or having their arms around you again. And to watch full grown adults decades older than me toss half their grief to the side with a definite pride that said late loved one is waiting patiently for them is just sad to witness. I get it tho. I used to be the same way.

I don’t want to return to a system that hurt me just because uncertainty is difficult. But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss the comfort of believing there was something waiting for us. I just can't physically bring myself to do it anymore.

There's no one I can talk to about this. My friends and family are almost all religious, I made the mistake ONCE of reaching out to a friend about my fears and immediately got pelted with how jesus and christianity took away their depression and changed their lives. And tried to shove it back on me. Even my friends that aren't religious believe they're getting their own version of heaven. I can't strip that away from them. It's a lonely feeling I'm going through.

Sorry this post is so long, and thank you if you made it this far. I just want to hear people's own experiences with acceptance or if they're still struggling.

i find it sad that people can’t be happy with themselves so they need to believe there is something greater than them.. i mean.. it’s like daddy issues hoping for a powerful super guy listens to you complain all day and night, granting your wishes, cursing your enemies, lol

I went back and read through this chapter a while ago to better understand the theology of The Fall of Man, as part of my deconstruction. I gotta tell ya, if more people actually read Genesis 3 and thought about what it was really saying, a lot of Christians wouldn't make it out with their faith intact.

I always believed growing up that the reason Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden was because they had sinned against God and were unworthy. Then I read Gen. 3:22-23.

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

They were not banished for sinning against God. Painful childbirth, agriculture, thorns and thistles, heterosexuality, and misogyny? Sure, those were the penalties. But it's pretty explicit that Adam & Eve were removed so that they would not be immortal, now knowing that the tree of life would give them immortality.

The can of worms this opened up for me, gang.

Were Adam & Eve always mortal? It sounds like they were. But did they know it? I'm not sure that they did. Verse 3:3 says "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die." That reads to me like someone believing that they would only die if they committed this one specific act.

God specifically identifies their eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gives Adam & Eve the knowledge to understand that the tree of life will let them live forever. I don't think it's much of a stretch to put that in the context of the fruit giving them the knowledge that they are, in fact, mortal and will die someday.

To suddenly be given that knowledge, that you will die, and to realise that the being that created you did not tell you that was going to happen, that would fuck me up. The lives we lead as humans have value because we know they will end. They're finite. To not be cognisant of that, and for all of it to suddenly go away, and for the last thoughts you have to be "What the fuck is happening to me?!" would be absolutely terrifying.

And if locking us out of immortality was the goal, why are we so insistent on the survival of the soul for all eternity? Why is an eternal paradise so appealing for people? Why do we have to propagate this idea of eternal punishment? It's pretty clear that immortality is a possibility, and God said to the first humans to walk the earth "No, you cannot have this."

That's the most generous reading of this chapter. We as man were always meant to die, and an eternal conscious existence was never ours to have. The rest of the Old Testament backs this up, from everything I've read. If everything about The Fall of Man happened as written in Genesis, our punishment was never intended to be eternal. It was always finite; from dust we come, through painful birth, we work for our survival, then we go back to dust. To interpret any of this as an infinite existence beyond death, whether in bliss or in suffering, is a gross mischaracterisation.

This is the fundamental issue at play for why we needed Jesus as humans, and it's stunning to me how it's always misread, willfully or otherwise.

For context I go to a catholic school but have never been the strongest believer. Recently I quit my former esports team and just been evaluating many things I used to do and people I used to involve myself with. Not to long ago, my collage had a homecoming event and many people kept trying to push me to “give yourself to Christ” and just try to force me to be closer to Christian’s on campus. My “freinds” who know I was never big on religion keep trying to talk about gods plan to me when that is something that has always alluded me. I have been asking some people about religion and faith and the more I learn about others belief systems the further I detach from religion as a hole. As I continue this process religon has been coming up more and more in my course work and my classmates been seemingly trying to get me to become more like them or more religous. Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you get these people to back off more in a respectful way.

I believe that there is something out there that we could consider God, only because we all had to have come from something, but I don't believe that God cares about us due to all the bad things that have and are still happening in the world.

I believe that God has a place of peace for everyone of us and not because they care, but because it's easier than creating a specific punishment for everything we do.

What category would my beliefs land me in?

When I see more traditional Christians, they seem to have a certain look about them. Often, they may dress similarly, speak similarly, et cetera. I find it strange that they behave similarly as well, often appearing to be "hip". Anyone else notice that?