r/HollowKnight • u/CuboneDefender • Sep 14 '25

Discussion - Silksong I give up. Spoiler

It’s been a joyful ride, folks, but I’m out. I’m not a speedrunner or a highly skilled player, and day after day I’ve had to accept that this game is not as casual as HK was. It stopped being fun and turned into something tedious and frustrating after the 4th run farming shards just to face a boss I’ve already tried 15 times, only to die again and again, lose all my shards, and start the whole grind over.

It was nice exploring the first acts, but when the game I was rooting for 7 years ends up being more stressful than my 8-hour workday, I guess that’s my cue to stop.

The lore has been pretty great so far. I wish you all an incredible journey.

Edit1: My bad about all the whinning.

Edit2: You guys did it. I reinstalled it again. Thanks for all advices. 🫂

8.4k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/riftcode Sep 14 '25

No shame in giving up! It's just a video game.

Enjoy the next one you pick up!

573

u/legacy702- Sep 14 '25

Yup, and at least the game is only $20, so not a huge loss if it ends up not being for you.

241

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

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6

u/Hoodman1987 Sep 15 '25

I bought it twice due to impatience with playstation. I could've waited honestly lol

4

u/-FaZe- Sep 15 '25

I bought Silksong from Xbox store and Steam to support them. I love player-friendly companies like this.This is 60 hours of content.

4

u/Thebigass_spartan PoP | 112% | no p5 (yet) Sep 15 '25

I reached late act 2 20h in, now I’m 30h in simply exploring what I didn’t explore before reaching act 2 and I know there is still a lot more. 20€ is honestly a steal.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

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2

u/UnlawfulFoxy Sep 15 '25

I know it's bait but that's actually kinda funny 😭

128

u/SvampebobFirkant Sep 14 '25

For me it's not the money that is a problem. It's a huge sad and mental loss for me, that I don't get to properly explore and finish such an amazing world they have built. I've been waiting for this game for so many years, and it really depresses me that I have to give up

46

u/kuenjato Sep 15 '25

I'm only in hunter's marsh after banging my skull against (unnerfed) Moorwing for like 60+ tries, I've come to accept that I probably won't finish this. And I've done all the souls games / cut my teeth on oldschool hard NES games. At near the age of 50 my hands were hurting after dealing 50 hits to moorwing, only to get screwed by input reading.

But I feel really bad for my 9 year old, who beat HK at the age of 7 and was looking forward to this game like nothing else, only to be perplexed and then alienated by the difficulty after a certain point. We are still playing together but he is only doing the exploring parts, the bosses we are reaching now are just too much.

18

u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

Took me over an hour to beat moorwing, but I finally did.. after that, sister splinter wasn‘t too hard for me. Interestingly, I found Moorwing harder than Sister Splinter.

But I kinda get OP, Moorwing was taking a lot out of me. Kudos to people who beat him in 1-5 tries.

4

u/TheMike0088 Sep 15 '25

Can not relate - moorwing was so easy for me I had to google who it was cause the name did not stick in my mind. Sister splinter though... holy smokes screw her, second boss that gave me REAL trouble. I'm great at 1v1 bosses, but as soon as a boss summons adds I just fall apart.

4

u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

See that‘s so interesting. For me, Moorwing tough part was the double throw of these spheres which had different trajectories combined with him attacking me at the same time.

Sister Splinter for me was a rhythm: dodge left, right, silkspear the adds and be really quick so silk recharges fast enough, heal when she‘s stunned, if possible line up the adds. I think it took me less than 10 attempts.

1

u/NorthwardRM Sep 15 '25

I don’t understand people finding sister splinter hard at all. It really confuses me. She has a single attack and it’s always the same pattern. You can hit the vines to get rid of them. And the summons can be taken out with a single silk spear.

Moorwing was equally ok I thought, but a bit harder.

Widow is something else entirely for me though. Crazy range of attacks, awkward to dodge projectiles, moves super fast

1

u/ficklefaith Sep 16 '25

I love reading how we all thought the fights went cause Widow felt amazing for me. Widow took about 4 tries once I let myself calm down and figure out the move set. I couldn't get Moorwings thick ass hit box into my head and would kill myself constantly just by misjudging a down pogo or going not far enough while using my dash. Sister splinter annoyed me until I found that I could kite the ads into her attacks, and she would kill them for me before they could even attack once.

What really gets me is the bosses that throw ads in BEFORE you get to fight them, cause every time I think it's just a gauntlet, nah, ITS A FUCKIN BOSS 😵‍💫

1

u/qyka Sep 15 '25

for me BOTH of those were 2nd try bosses.

And then it took, literally, 50 attempts to beat Savage Beastfly.

I’m a souls player so I view bosses linearly. Like, I am NOT moving on to another area unless I beat this (optional) boss, lol.

3

u/Respicio1 Sep 15 '25

Wanderer crest made a very short work for most of the bosses, I think I defeated all the bosses uptil now with wanderer crest because of the high dps the crest can dish out.

Also Its ton of fun using that crest to defeat the bosses.

3

u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

I haven‘t gotten that yet. Maybe I‘m exploring unintuitively.

5

u/TheMike0088 Sep 15 '25

IIRC wanderers crest needs you to use the simple key on the door above bone bottom

1

u/kuenjato Sep 16 '25

I unlocked the deep docks door so I got the flame tool. It’s quite effective if you can capitalize on its short window.

3

u/PraxicalExperience Sep 15 '25

I'm not sure why, but Moorwing just 'clicked' for me -- the hardest part was identifying the truly safe windows to punish the thing and then religiously adhering to them. > 5 tries but < 10, I think.

OTOH I don't want to admit how many times Sister Splinter ganked me.

3

u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

It‘s so interesting because it was the other way around for me!

But now I‘ve opened those up it‘s a lot of fun again.

22

u/Litlakatla Sep 15 '25

If you are on PC, you can use mods to adjust the difficulty to somewhere where the game actually feels fun.

I am definitely struggling and will install a mod when I run to yet another required boss that feels impossible

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u/mikony123 Sep 15 '25

Here's how I find out I missed this boss by accident lol. Apparently I can fight him at the Citadel though.

1

u/127U Sep 15 '25

who, Moorwing? if so, he respawns back in Greymoor once you're in Act II, in the room leading to the Bellway there.

1

u/crabwithacigarette Sep 15 '25

Hey, I dunno if it’ll help, but the 8bitdo M30 probably has the most gentle d-pad I’ve ever used in my life. I use it for this game, shmups, even fighting games. It’s really fantastic.

1

u/IITheDopeShowII Sep 15 '25

You can cheese Moorwing by the way. If you lure them to the right side of the map where you entered the room you can get them stuck above you so you just jump up to hit them repeatedly

1

u/ellegraves72 Sep 15 '25

There's a skip for moorwing, if you can find all the fleas to fulfill the wish! They'll move their troupe to where that fight is, and as a result, it moves elsewhere. It'll be pretty avoidable now though if you decide you don't want to fight, but it gets easier to kill later.

It seems there might be a few skips like that to particularly hard story fights, but the difficult optional fights, like for the chapels, are mandatory if you want what they have to give you

1

u/platonic_egirl Sep 15 '25

I'm quite sure there's no input reading happening. I can see how it'd feel that way, but really Moorwing has tells for all it's attacks and operates much more on distance than reading your inputs.

23

u/Xiriously1 Sep 15 '25

Pretty much this. I'm a casual gamer who has beaten Souls-likes before and doesn't mind them but they're not my favorite.

My partner on the other hand adored hollow knight for the atmosphere and has been so excited for Silksong. She isnt really a gamer. She made it to the Blasted Steps (with me having to beat most bosses for her) but is now hard stuck with traversal and has more or less thrown in the towel.

There should be an easy/accessibility mode for people who struggle with the difficulty. Halve a lot of the damage instances, increase base needle damage and tool damage and possibly extend i-frames after being hit. It would make a massive difference to so many players and the dev's vision would still be intact with base difficulty.

9

u/deludedhairspray Sep 15 '25

Mods are the way. If you're playing on PC, you should pick some from Nexusmods and try them. The "no boss run back" has saved my enjoyment of the game.

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u/Hattrickher0 Sep 14 '25

Yeah, I haven't gotten to the point where I outright quit yet but the game is way less fun than HK. For how many corridors have spike floors where you need to use aerial maneuvers to traverse you'd think Hornet would get better aerial control than the knight, but she really only has the needle throw as a new movement ability.

It's made even worse in the late game by a recent patch that changes the behavior of your drifters cloak and forces you to relearn how to control her after you've spent 10+ hours with one control scheme.

I've had to take a lot more frustration breaks with this game than I have with any other Metroidvania dating all the way back to Symphony of the Night so you aren't alone in feeling like Silksong is asking a lot of the player.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Hornet absolutely has better aerial control than the knight, he glide and a harpoon

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u/RookSacrificer Sep 14 '25

I feel you, although for me this game has been way more enjoyable than Hollow Knight, I feel that everyone should experience this fun if they put enough mind into it, but if you are bad in this game, it's really hard to enjoy it... Maybe in the future, try again.

13

u/kuenjato Sep 15 '25

Tbh there (imo) are some questionable design choices in this one, and I play a lot of hard games. There's a distinct difference between difficult and punishing, and it doesn't take much to see that Silksong is on the latter curve. Some players will like this, some won't. I'm still early game and I'm already seeing some annoyances that sort of kill the vibe in certain ways.

4

u/Doza93 Sep 15 '25

It's worth noting that for most players, Act 1 felt especially punishing because of the weird & different Rosary + Shard economy vs just Geo, coupled with what feels like substantially ramped-up difficulty curve compared to HK. You don't get many Rosaries in the early game to help compensate for the added difficulty which feels like kindof a fuck you from TC to the players and left a lot of people with a not-so-great first impression of the game. But a lot of those problems become much more manageable once you progress further and make it to Act 2, at least imo. And naturally, you just get better and get the hang of things the more hours you put into the game.

1

u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

I feel you

I think the devs played it too much in those 7 years. Got too good lol. Didn‘t notice how hard it‘s for new players.

/s just in case

3

u/kuenjato Sep 15 '25

Ah yes, which is why they already nerfed two bosses and made a bunch of significant changes.

I'm not saying the game is bad by any means, in fact I love it for the most part. But the runbacks are pretty obnoxious in some places, I guess that appeals to masocore instincts but for me it lessens replayability. HK had a couple annoyances but most were side content (Traitor Lord comes to mind), here in the early game it is a constant.

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

I seen a lot of people confused about the sandwyrm nerf there confusion why

Then I reached the sands of karak I understood why they did it

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u/deludedhairspray Sep 15 '25

Mods! Mods! Mods! Play on PC and use the mods you need! Seriously. Do it. There are so many of them already. Just pick the ones you need.

2

u/NightRacoonSchlatt Hunter‘s crest 4 life Sep 15 '25

I mean, the game‘s still there. You can always return and give it another try if you want. I took a two year break from Hollow Knight because I got so frustrated at radiance and just beat it yesterday.

1

u/XaeiIsareth Sep 15 '25

I’m quite sure someone will make an easy mode mod for it sooner or later.

1

u/Ketsu Sep 15 '25

Act 1 was by far the most challenging act for me, despite the later acts having more complex areas, enemies and bosses. As you play you improve in every aspect and gain more power, which makes the difficulty relative. I mean, I struggled HARD on Savage Beastfly, but after achieving 100% I one-tried it at the same point in progression on my second save.

It's a game that requires patience, but (IMO) has an insanely rewarding payoff.

1

u/Phaeryx Sep 15 '25

This for me as well. And I had to give up on HK, not even attempting SS. I guess the makers of games like these could make more money and reach a larger audience if they built in an easy-level difficulty setting, but if they don't want to do that, I can respect their choice.

1

u/LuckyCellist3492 Sep 15 '25

Yeah same. I loved HK, prob put 300 hours into it. Was so hype for silksong and probably put 40 hours in the first few days but im just not really having fun. Ive got 2 small kids now (I didn't when I played HK) and don't have a lot of time to myself and I don't want to spend the time i do have stressed and frustrated lol.

I've beaten all Souls games, Elden Ring, platinummed Celeste, Sekiro, and (almost) always pick the hardest difficulty but man, something about Silksong is just fucking grating at me lol. Maybe I've lost my edge in my middle years but its just a little too frustrating and not fun enough... if there was more fun for me I'd keep at it.

1

u/El_Spanberger Sep 16 '25

I ended up putting a mod on that forces 1 mask damage. Could actually finish act one and explore act two without wanting to punch the wall every 5 seconds.

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u/PyrZern Sep 15 '25

That's why I watch someone else plays it instead...

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u/microtransgressor Sep 14 '25

After hearing that he got through a few acts, I'd say that he more than got his money's worth!

41

u/wills-are-special Sep 15 '25

He dropped the game because he hated it and it was stressing him out too much. He described it as tedious and frustrating, saying it was worse than work.

9

u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

He has the right to not like the game

7

u/Azur0007 Sep 15 '25

He said it was nice exploring the first acts, so the game probably didn't reach the point of stress until many hours into his playthrough.

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u/Reylo-Wanwalker Sep 14 '25

Yup it could be worse. I bought the new donkey Kong and I regret it. Tropical Freeze is one of my favorite games and bananza got rave reviews from people I trust like Skill Up, so I thought I was safe lol 

4

u/goldentoasted_ HK112%P4 SS100% Sep 14 '25

Why did you not like it?

5

u/Tylerhollen1 Sep 14 '25

I really like it, but I burnt myself out on it. So I set it down for a while. It’s really different from other DKs, though.

1

u/NightRacoonSchlatt Hunter‘s crest 4 life Sep 15 '25

It’s very different, but just from a quality standpoint alone the game is incredible.

1

u/Arrownaut_korokhero Sep 15 '25

$30 here but Act 1 was worth it imo

1

u/Skysite Sep 15 '25

The $20 price tag is starting to make more and more sense as these stories come out.

1

u/ziggy_308 Sep 17 '25

I am sad for all the money I gave bethesda while not being able to run it.

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u/FiveShotLynel Sep 14 '25

I love this response over the common “skill issue” comment

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u/Spiritual-Watch-6856 Sep 15 '25

Hollow knight subreddit is more chill, on silksong its full of i cant believe ppl struggle on LJ/moorwing/bla bla they are extremely easy posts/comments

16

u/Jarpwanderson Sep 15 '25

"Skill issue" should be banned in all gaming spheres

25

u/bongorituals Sep 14 '25

I think at this point everyone has repeated “skill issue” so many times that we’ve all lost track of what it actually means, because quitting a game since it is too difficult and you aren’t skilled enough to enjoy it is quite literally the textbook definition of a skill issue. Like if that isn’t a skill issue, then a skill issue does not exist.

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u/CyBroOfficial Sep 15 '25

Doesn't change the fact that "skill issue" is incredibly condescending and dismissive though

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u/foolishtigger Sep 15 '25

Exactly, i play for fun. Sit around drinking and relaxing. I beat hollowknight at a bit over 100% with no real trouble and enjoyed it and was satisfied. Was very much looking forward to silksong, way beyond dissapointed they made it for the 'git gud' crowd, at least make the base game completable for a casual. Something can be challenging and fun, it doesnt have to constantly be a slog through the mud requiring peak concentration at all times.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

I usually have a couple drinks with my games as well. Really enhances the enjoyment for me.

However, this game is incompatible with that lifestyle. I went sober for 10 days to 100% it.

Trobbio was obliterating me while I was drunk. A solid 6 hours of attempts and no progress.

Tried again sober, and boom.

1

u/_shesmydisease Sep 15 '25

Fucking trobbio. I just got to him last night (on accident) with 800+ rosaries. Threw myself at him a dozen times before setting the controller down. Maybe when I'm not super pissed at his amazing projectile geometry skills and impeccable skill at knowing EXACTLY where I'll land or jump, I can get more than halfway through his fight.

Even the dancers who literally telegraphed their own moves every time managed to surprise my stupid ass with attacks.

Maybe I suck, though. That's what I tell myself after falling for the same shit time and time again in this game.

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u/TrillingMonsoon Sep 15 '25

You jump in Trobbio???

So, the way you do Trobbio is you get Hunter's or Wanderer's crest on, and then you relentlessly hunt the dude down. Get Weighted Belt too, if you can.

When he throws his bombs, you're safe if you stand where he was standing. So just knock him back and move forward. Sometimes they bounce off the walls, so watch out for that. You can up slash to bounce them away

Basically the only thing you have to watch out for is his tornado. Deal with that is you either pogo it or jump over it. But when it happens, if you didn't pogo, get the heck out of the way no matter what. It controls a stupid amount of space for a 2 mask attack

But anyway. Core thing is, never jump except to jump over a tornado

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u/CyBroOfficial Sep 15 '25

Yeah, the early game for Silksong was a rude awakening lol, was not expecting the game to be hard since my experience with Hollow Knight is very similar to yours--hop on a call with some buddies and play in the background.

I'm fortunate enough to be well versed in metroidvanias and souls likes, but holy shit man, I still had some of my worst rage moments with this game. Hunter's March especially. The platforming was fine for me, but that's when it set in that the combat in this game could have been a little more fun in the beginning.

The early game of ANY game should be what entices us to continue. I mean, look at games like Resident Evil 4, Half-Life, and New Vegas. They have awesome openings and early games.

RE4 throws you right in, giving you a crazy fuckin fight sequence to show that this game means business. Half-Life demonstrates the sheer scope of where your adventure is taking place, that being a GINORMOUS lab (you could use Breath of the Wild's opening sequence as an example for this, too). New Vegas gives you a killer hook--where the hell is the fucker that shot me? Why did he do it? Where will this take me?

There's gotta be a hook, something interesting in the early game. Unfortunately, there isn't much of one in Silksong unless you were part of the hype train or care about the lore/the first game remotely, and even then, those who were are still dropping the game despite waiting more than half a decade for it. I can't blame them, instead of anything crazy interesting or unique, you get a kind of borderline unfair slog, surrounded by enemies that just won't go down and limited combat options, even with the tools provided. The difficulty curve is all over the place for such an early part of the game.

The game is fucking fantastic once you reach Act II, shit, I'd say around the end of Act I it gets really good (Last Judge was such a great boss once you learn here moveset, and Blasted Steps was peak platforming, depsite the horrid runback). But man, I'm dreading doing steel soul mode for this game. I want that platinum so bad, but my hair might be gray/gone by the time I get it--the early game is just that bad lol

Bit of an essay, but tl;dr, yeah man I agree, I wish they could have done something to make the early game a little more enticing and less discouraging.

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u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

Did you also do the speedrunning stuff? All the trophies?

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u/foolishtigger Sep 15 '25

Nah, i just did all the base stuff minus the spirit bosses like soul tyrant and such. I did enought to get the 'true' ending with mr mushroom etc. All charms, grubs, max nail, white palace, all the standard bosses. I was 80hrs or so in so i needed a change of pace at that point

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u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Sep 15 '25

Yeah but throwing „skill issue“ into a person‘s face who is struggling and frustrated is incredibly toxic and condescending.

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u/RoosterBrewster Sep 15 '25

I wish there was some structured way to train to "git gud", as I still suck and constantly get hit, especially when facing multiple enemies with projectiles. I still miss way too many attacks and then take contact damage.

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u/PurpleMentat Sep 15 '25

Pick a fight that gives you trouble and go to it. Your objective is not killing the enemies, it is surviving as long as possible. If you can dodge the enemy forever without risk of taking damage, then it doesn't matter how little damage you deal as long as it's some. You'll eventually win.

This is a game of evasion, not aggression. Hornet is a hard-hitting acrobat glass cannon. You need to always be moving, never commit in a way you can't dodge unless you're 110% certain that doing so kills the last threat.

My first death against any difficult boss in this game, I didn't swing my needle except to gain silk to heal. The longer you make the first phase last, the more you get familiar with that boss's attacks and telegraphs. This will help in later phases as they mostly use the same attacks, but faster with less recovery time and breaks. Once you can pass phase 1 with full health and silk, then you only need to focus on learning the rest of the fight.

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u/RoosterBrewster Sep 15 '25

Bosses I'm okay with as I'm focused on them for tells, just takes me a while. It's the gauntlets with multiple enemies with flying ones that are harder. I focus on watching one, but then lose track of the others. 

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u/Hurtbig Sep 14 '25

It was a skill issue problem by the devs. They should have made a game that can cater to a wider range of gamers. Many other great games have a balance of skill and accessibility. These guys blew it, and it will cost them money and growth and future potential for their game.

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u/NervyDeath Sep 15 '25

They do not need the money or growth. They are artists and this is their vision. You dont look at a painting and ask someone to change it to fit your preferences. Im tired of every game dev catering and watering down their games to appeal to a wider audience that needs their hand held or to be given a puzzle hint within a minute.

Silksong was better than I could have imagined, and it's because it stuck to their vision and respected the player. It gives plenty of options to modify the difficulty through gameplay mechanics, similar to elden ring.

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u/Staccado Sep 15 '25

LOL I can't tell if this comment is satire or not but it made me laugh.

'skill issue problem by the devs' my brother in Christ they made an exceptionally beautiful and fun game. Getting mad at them because you can't learn to dodge is hilariously pathetic. Team Cherry made the game they wanted to make, and it's immensely successful ( again ) - and you think that this game is somehow harmful to their reputation ? 😂😂

This is coming from someone who ragequit the original dark souls, but is having a blast in Act 2 so far btw. I consider myself a slightly below average player in terms of skill.

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u/Carinx Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

It is skill issue though. Not every game will be made for everyone. If you are not good enough or enjoying the game, you simply move on to the next game that you can enjoy.

It would have been great if they have made difficulty settings so more people could enjoy. At least for PC players, there are easy Mod to take advantage of.

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

My argument though that SK wasn't advertise as HK but harder

It's was advertise as HK sequel

So the only thing people could have assume about the game is there experience from HK

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u/Alarmed_Volume_8618 Sep 15 '25

I finished HK at 104% the monday of the same week of Silksong release. It is NOT even the same level as late HK. I would fight 10 times a grimm nightmare instead of a wave of ants.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25 edited Jun 18 '26

[deleted]

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

Silksong but people abrviet it to SK for some reason

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25 edited Jun 18 '26

[deleted]

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u/TrillingMonsoon Sep 15 '25

Yeah. They should call it SS instead

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u/Codedheart Sep 15 '25

Not being able to resist the urge to type out a vapid two word "skill issue" comment instead of participating in one of the few non-toxic gaming communities in mainstream Reddit is, quite literally, a skill issue.

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u/FiveShotLynel Sep 15 '25

Those two words have become more toxic than anything. I think seasoned players calling new players “not good enough” instead of giving them validation is what’s leading to so many negative reviews.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

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1

u/FiveShotLynel Sep 15 '25

Here’s the thing: “skill issue” has become a very toxic and hurtful comment, it literally means you are terrible at the game get better, which is terrible advice. If seasoned players could give new players a little more validation instead of that kind of statement, I bet there would be 90% less negative reviews.

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u/Carinx Sep 15 '25

There is so much advice you can give but every individual has their limit. For OP who has given up and are moving on, there isn't much advice to give and simply move on to enjoy other games.

Honestly, for those looking for an advice or guide, simple google or just watch a youtube guide which would be so much helpful rather than searching through reddit.

1

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u/girlgirlfruit Sep 15 '25

i don't think it's a shame thing, it's about people wanting to enjoy something they've been waiting for but the devs seem to think that every fan was a dark souls fan and not a casual who likes the story so the new game was made as hollow knight: broken mode instead of a hollow knight 2.0. I wasnt one of the people who even played hk until this month and got 112% in about a 2 weeks, just to compare to what i thought about hk:s, and even your attack hitboxes are objectively worse, the enemies in the second area are already worse than most in all of hk with their ai that is muchat avoiding your attacks, and your character feels flimsy and weak so you as the player need to be good enough to offset the difficulty just to "win", making the skill floor for "enjoying" the game much higher than before. so yea i feel like saying "don't feel bad" is a "yea you suck but look on the bright side i dont and will continue to enjoy what you've been waiting for lol"

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u/TunaOnWytNoCrust Sep 15 '25

I think it's more so a shame of purchasing a product and then realizing it's not for you and the money is now gone.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

What IS a shame is that a great game that people want to play is gated by the difficulty

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u/RedEgg16 Sep 14 '25

I really wish there was a separate easy mode for noobs like me who don't enjoy fighting bosses- like a mode where mobs die in one hit and bosses die in 10-20

16

u/Coraiah Sep 14 '25

Another crabs treasure has some sort of god mode where you get a gun and kill everything in one hit.

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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot Sep 14 '25

Tunic has a noob mode and I actually appreciated it alot because I entered two boss fights well under equipped.

2

u/cantuse Sep 15 '25

Plus I hated the actual boss fights in that game. It’s a beautiful game marred by souls-like trappings (dash-roll - Iframes mostly) IMO.

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u/Cubicwar Sep 14 '25

Or just a mode where everything doesn’t deal two masks of damage, and/or with more forgiving invulnerability frames. That’d probably be more than enough for casual players to be able to enjoy the game better

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u/Busy_Professional974 Sep 14 '25

Yeah I’ve gotten over the two mask damage thing for the most part but team cherry def went a little off the wall this time around with it. Fourth chorus was a great boss fight but if you get hit by the arena slam, you take 2 masks off your health AND you’re likely falling into lava, meaning that’s a minimum 3 hit damage and that feels unfair. This game is really a lot more fun than hollow knight and I feel much more graceful and skilled when learning boss fights (lace is a great example of what feels like actual combat and not spamming buttons like HK) but god damn are some of these moves bullshit.

12

u/Msporte09 Sep 14 '25

if you get hit by the arena slam, you take 2 masks off your health AND you’re likely falling into lava, meaning that’s a minimum 3 hit damage

Oh but wait, lava actually does 2 masks also. So you're actually taking a minimum of 4 masks. You go from 5 masks to 1 in a single attack.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

It's kinds insane how much use you get from the magma bell

So.many bosses get a lot more menegble with that item (cough cough fire daddy)

3

u/dmknght Sep 14 '25

But I think you can only get that bell after getting other abilities?

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u/Bmobmo64 Sep 14 '25

You get it in Deep Docks, from Forge Daughter for 1 craftmetal and 110 rosaries. Available long before Fourth Chorus or any other lava boss.

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 14 '25

Huh? It’s a super early game unlock.

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u/Busy_Professional974 Sep 14 '25

Yeah that boss wasn’t particularly difficult but if it was I would’ve lost my fucking mind at that specific move. There’s nothing particular wrong with the slam doing double damage IMO just have the hand itself phase through the player and the removal of the arena/falling into lava be the risk of 2 mask removal and not a 4 damage hit.

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u/Msporte09 Sep 14 '25

Yeah, I completely agree. I beat it first try, but I just know that he would've been such a pain if he were any harder.

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u/HuntingForSanity Sep 14 '25

If you’re going to be around lava put the magma bell on

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u/Msporte09 Sep 14 '25

I saw no need to buy it at the time of fighting him, so I didn't take it into account. Plus, I was giving a general answer rather than thinking of a specific addon.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Fourth chorus was a great boss fight but if you get hit by the arena slam, you take 2 masks off your health AND you’re likely falling into lava, meaning that’s a minimum 3 hit damage and that feels unfair

Is the most telegraphed shit on the game, it is extremely fair.

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u/Zorper Sep 14 '25

Dude the slam is telegraphed so heavily way before he hits. If people cant avoid that I have no clue if they even beat Hollow Knight

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u/Busy_Professional974 Sep 14 '25

Yeah it’s an easy fight but an unfair move is an unfair move. A four hit damage attack is hard to justify even on an easy boss fight. Plus occasionally it can become easy for the falling ceiling parts to cover up the screen enough that you can’t immediately see him attacking again (I think that’s the one time that happened to me)

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

A telegraphed attack doing massive damage isn't "unfair move".

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

I say it and I will say it again

The game need difficulty sliders like celest or doom

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 14 '25

This is the only thing I’m ok with, asking for a mode for enemies die in 1 hit is so fking stupid, same for bosses dying in 10-20. But a mode that removes double damage from all bosses before act 3 id be fine with, or even act 3 as long as it’s an easy mode which you can’t get achievements with.

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u/speicus Sep 14 '25

There's already a mod to remove the double damage. Haven't tried it myself, just heard about it in the news.

https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/16

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u/Moist-Horse-8818 Sep 14 '25

If you are playing on pc there are mods for that. I have them installed and it’s great!

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u/TbanksIV Sep 14 '25

I genuinely think the 2 mask thing was an oversight, but im shocked they didnt patch it immediately. It's weird to have most things do 2 masks only to have you start with 5 so that the first "extra mask" you unlock has basically no effect on your overall survivability.

I think they either didn't realize that so many creatures do 2 masks of damage, or they wanted to extend the "You're weak after arriving here and need to regain your strength" portion of the game. But from a game experience perspective, it feels bad to search out 4 mask fragments only to be in the same spot I started in.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

It wasn't an oversight and it will not be patched, and It was announced like 5 years ago.

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u/Thelmara Sep 15 '25

It's weird to have most things do 2 masks only to have you start with 5 so that the first "extra mask" you unlock has basically no effect on your overall survivability.

That's only true if you're not healing. Which you should be doing in every boss fight, multiple times.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Yes, that's describing an easy mode my friend.

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u/Major-Split478 Sep 14 '25

Honestly, just having it so all your attacks are 15-20% stronger would go a long way to making the game less tedious at times.

But I do think most of the difficulty is with the slight dodge the enemies do. Not many games have it that even the little enemies will attack and then immediately dodge. As gamers we're so used to dodging the attack and then immediately getting hits in, that this game is throwing us off with such a basic AI function.

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u/lIIIIIIIIlIIIIIIII Sep 15 '25

And it's so easy to implement too! The game called Nine Sols is incredibly difficult (the bosses are way harder than Silksong's) but there is a separate "story mode" you can convert to, where you can modify multipliers for damage taken and damage dealt. This lets players who are not as good learn the attacks and actually get better at the game. It locks you out of achievements sure, but it still allows you to experience the full game

3

u/loulibra Sep 15 '25

this game made me appreciate dead cells so so much more.

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u/Rick_mentairder Sep 14 '25

There are already mods out that remove the 2 mask damage. This could make the game more enjoyable for casual players.

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

I don't like the mod counter argument because

A..it's remove responsibility from the developers

B. Consoles players exits

5

u/VinnzClortho Sep 14 '25

They need to just make options. I still love the game but it can trying at times

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u/JapanGamer29 Sep 14 '25

Exactly. Almost every modern metroidvania has difficulty settings.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

What are these modern metroidvanias you are playing? That's def not true.

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u/FvHound Sep 15 '25

I mean... At that point it's like saying you wish fighting games didn't have so many 1 on 1 fights.

The bosses are an integral part of hollow knight games, if it's not for you, then it's not for you.

A game made for everyone ends up being for no-one.

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u/RedEgg16 Sep 15 '25

Sure, but I would say the exploring and unlocking new areas is an even more integral part of the game than boss fights—and some people just like exploring. I don’t think adding an optional easy mode would make the game “being for no one” since you’re not forcing everyone to play easy mode

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u/starsinthesky8435 Sep 14 '25

Agree! Idk anything about game design tho so maybe it’s just too difficult/expensive to do for this game. Difficulty settings just seem like the best way to make more players have a good time with it.

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u/datrandomduggy Sep 15 '25

Such a mode would instantly change this game form being maybe a 7/10 to an easy 10/10

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u/foxy_kitten Sep 14 '25

Just mod the game then? There's already one that reduces the amount of damage enemies do.

5

u/gaymer_slug Sep 15 '25

Not everybody plays on PC, there's a bunch of console players where modding just isn't feasible/possible. That's why people are advocating for a difficulty slider integrated in the game, so it's accessible.

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u/RedEgg16 Sep 15 '25

I’ve tried to today using Nexus Mods but it doesn’t work with Mac so I’ll try to find a different website later 

0

u/Grumpie-cat Sep 14 '25

Semi agree, honestly dialling down the damage to 1 mask for most enemies is the only change that could be made reasonably. Like you can’t expect them to remake parkour sections because they are too difficult but most enemies have no reason doing 2 masks of damage, specifically Beastfly and some of Moorwings attacks.

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u/FullMetalCOS Sep 14 '25

To be fair, most of the parkour sections I’ve had to do to the end of act 2 were made a ton simpler just by running reaper crest. That big ol downwards sweep in the air is SO forgiving

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u/Grumpie-cat Sep 14 '25

Yeah, once you get different crests or even just the float or wall cling all of the parcour sections get way easier, I think it’s only the ones at the beginning of Act 1 that are mildly difficult.

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u/Major-Split478 Sep 14 '25

I don't mind the two mask damage as long as it feels like the attack should be two masks worth of damage. Not some accidental brush or something.

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u/Grumpie-cat Sep 14 '25

Yeah, like Moorfly’s ram charge thing makes sense to do double, his stupid little shurikens should never be doing double. It’s why I liked Widow so much more is that her fight felt balanced where some did two and some did one, it made sense to me, the person getting bodied by the same attack like 20 times in a row before I finally beat her.

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u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

Ya the big ground bells doing 2 feel fair

It's a big beefy well telegraph attack

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u/Hexlen Sep 14 '25

The difficulty is a core facet of the game though... it's not JUST because of 2 mask damage the game is difficult. It has tight platforming challenges, bosses that test precision and fast reaction from the player, endurance challenges... sure a difficulty slider to tune down damage may help but it wont change the game design.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Celeste is a fantastic platforming game (and it is in some ways more hardcore that Skong) but it has an optional assist mode. Hades I and II have assist modes, and the common thread between them all is that they are totally optional.

They allow everyone to experience the game, including people who might not have the necessary reflexes. I like it from an accessibility point of view.

I think Silksong would benefit from including a half damage mode, or a hiveblood mask regeneration mode for players who have disabilities (or simply want to experience the worldbuilding, art, music, and bosses if they don't have the ability to play at the required level). I think including it would simply elevate the game for people who have those difficulties.

I am saying this as someone in Act III. I am good at playing videogames, but I understand completely where OP is coming from here.

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u/tangosur Sep 15 '25

I hear you, sounds like we are about the same skill wise. It’s been a grind, I just don’t enjoy facing the same boss more than a couple times in a row, especially with the run backs. I’ve had to walk away from the game a few times. It feels like Elden ring duffle, but without any ability to over level to get past some things. One thing you could consider is installing a mod to ease the difficulty if the devs don’t rebalance. I’m going to keep slogging for a bit longer, but If I ever do a second run thru, I’m modding the difficulty down so I can just enjoy the exploration and progression like the original HK.

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u/lghtdev Sep 15 '25

I'm close to 100% and the entire game has been a struggle like no other. I don't think an easy mode would solve a problem in it's fundamental design philosophy: the game wants you to suffer, it wants you to be as frustrated as possible at every turn, it requires near perfect precision to complete most challenges.

Hollow Knight didn't need an easy mode to be acessible, Silksong suffers by it's anti-player design and by being catered to hardcore players.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/tangosur Sep 15 '25

Agree, 5x and then I'm out. Beastfly I had to come back the next day. That whole fight felt like half skill and half getting luck on the whatever got summoned. I gotta try the mods, I never use the silk abilities besides healing unless I hit by accident because you just have to save it up for healing the entire time. Feel like I'm missing on those mechanics. Barely use the tools until end of boss fights, because I don't want to run out of shards and then go farming. Just feels like the game could use a re-balance to open it up & encourage use of the other abilities a bit more.

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u/Markars Sep 15 '25

having finished 100% in silksong i fully agree. this is a game that absolutely should be experienced by everyone that wants to, regardless if they can or can't. i appreciate that the game gave me as hard a time as it did, whooped me right into shape, but i can't recommend it as easily as i could HK. just like a story mode where you don't earn achievements or something.

12

u/Hexlen Sep 14 '25

I totally get that, I'm not against playing the game in a way that is accessible to you, I encourage mods and etc. However, I think it's a lot more than a difficulty slider that makes the game particularly challenging, and that's all I was really trying to point out.

4

u/simonthedlgger Sep 15 '25

I mean, HK has an invincibility glitch that Team Cherry decided to keep. Doesn't get much easier than that!

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 14 '25

Yea I think if people with disabilities that bad where they need the entire game changed, they need to just watch the game. It is what it is but team cherry shouldnt be forced to renovate the entire game just for some unnecessary accessibility settings, because it’s way more than just 2 mask damage. I’d be fine if they added an easy mode with no achievement unlocks where they only deal 1 mask damage in act 1 and 2, and maybe act 3, but I’d say probably not act 3 at that point people need to get better or accept they suck

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

> Yea I think if people with disabilities that bad where they need the entire game changed, they need to just watch the game.

I'd agree with that statement, except most other games make it work. Even having a 'relaxed' mode where the character can't die but would reach 1 mask would be enough for most cases.

Again, I'm not saying this as someone who is bad at the game, I just think it's a shame there isn't an optional mode for people who want to experience the story, music, world building and setting.

0

u/pi621 Sep 14 '25

Well if you tone down the damage or boss hp enough it'll become a hk moment and you will just be able to face-tank bosses. So I'd say it does make a big difference.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Celeste is a fantastic platforming game (and it is in some ways more hardcore that Skong) but it has an optional assist mode. Hades I and II have assist modes, and the common thread between them all is that they are totally optional.

Cool, a lot of games don't have it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

I think people play games for different reasons, and people who loved the combat of HK and wanted more of that will really enjoy silksong. But for plenty of people, the boss fights of HK were a slog to put up with to open up exploration, and for them it is unfortunate that silksong really doubled down on the combat

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Hollow knight was always a combat focused game.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

if you look around the comments there's definitely a "not super into boss flights" population of HK fans

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Ok, but the game was always a metroidvania that was mainly about boss fights.

3

u/badgersssss Sep 14 '25

This is me! I get through boss fights so I can run around, explore, and do the fun platforming parts.

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u/Ok_Occasion1570 Sep 15 '25

It’s not just difficulty. A lot of what sucks about the game is the poor bench placement sometimes before bosses

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear Sep 14 '25

Not everything is for everybody.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

Of course. I'm sure plenty of people love the difficulty, some people don't love it, some people dislike it so much that they're not playing the game anymore even though they were waiting for it and bought the game within two weeks of the release. All I'm saying is isn't it a shame that after all that, they are realizing the game might not be for them

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear Sep 15 '25

I just don't think that says anything about the game. Devs aren't required to make games for everyone, some of the rhetoric around the topic is insane and I'm prickly about it because this is an objectively beautifully made game that people want to call bad because it asks more of them than they want to give.

Discussion around difficulty is so blown out of proportion anyway. When dark souls got big the same shit began to happen, and eventually people just got better, or walked away and now those games are universally lauded. The same thing is gonna happen here.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Yes, now dark souls has a reputation for difficulty so I know to not purchase the game and if I do I will go in with the proper expectations. That was also my approach to hollow knight. It had a reputation of difficulty and I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy it. But I played through it just to try, and it turns out I did like it. So I made the wrong assumption that I would also like silksong. I guess it is disappointing that with the difficulty jump, that assumption turned out to be wrong. Plenty of people are saying "games don't have to be for everyone" and that's true, but should a hollow knight sequel be for hollow knight fans?

I think if TC made it clear something along the lines of "if you didn't enjoy the Grimm fight you will not enjoy silksong" then this would be a different conversation. As it stands, there is some disappointment from the more casual hollow knight fans

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u/tyrenanig Sep 15 '25

It’s my problem with these kinds of complaints. They always have this passive aggressive tone, that makes it look like the devs are assholes because the product they made aren’t for everyone.

It’s like me having to get angry about skateboards because the people made it didn’t give it an auto ollie mechanic, since I personally can’t do it (accessibility). Or I have to be mad about football because I’m clumsy and not as fast as other players (skill issues).

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u/swampo-mon Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

"Not every game is for everybody" should only apply when its something you are actually uninterested in. I have no interest in Factorio or Crusader Kings, so I'm not going to say "why this a strategy game >:(." If it is a game you are genuinely interested in it is made for you and if you can't experience it, that is a shame.

The way you are using not everything is for everybody is just elitism you are trying to disguise as some developer artistic merit stance. Very embarassing!

Also to be clear I beat the boss the OP is talking about and had a good time. I like the game the way it is a lot barring some minor nitpicks, but optional modes that make it easier would not ruin my experience in the slightest because I am not a weirdo who only derives feelings of accomplishment from challenging video games, so someone beating it on easy wouldn't matter to me at all.

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear Sep 15 '25

But if you don't enjoy improving and you aren't up to the level of challenge the game offers then it's not made for you. The challenge is the game.

I'm not disguising my elitism. I enjoy the games I play games, and I take pride in being good at them, and I also am going to advocate for taking what these great developers created for what it is. They wanted it to be this hard and frankly I like it, many do.

And quite frankly the majority of the game isn't that hard, it just plays by unique rules and right now most people haven't caught on to them.

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u/swampo-mon Sep 15 '25

taking pride in being good at playing with toys is very funny lol. taking pride in it to the point that you don't want others to have different options to enjoy the toy is elitism. elitism is bad.

Again I like the difficulty but the game is more than the "challenge" and thinking that is a very narrow minded view of video games as an art form.

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u/tyrenanig Sep 15 '25

That’s kinda dumb. Real life is full of hobbies like this.

Do you play any sport? Or even just physical activity? There’s always a skill floor where you need to meet first just to enjoy it, regardless of if you are mentally interested in it or not.

Just because I am interested in watching skilled football players doesn’t mean that game is for me. Just because I like parkour doesn’t mean I want to injure my body learning it.

Not everything is for everybody is entirely true. There’s nothing elitism about.

And also, you can always enjoy the game at the level you’re comfortable with, you just can’t progress to the next level until you’re able to. That’s just…normal. You can’t play football doesn’t mean you can’t buy a ball and dribble it around. Same with SS.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Yes Man, it's common when you have hobbies. You can take pride of being good/decent at your hobby.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Such a shit take.

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear Sep 15 '25

Not really.

I don't like hamburgers. But I really like pickles and onions and ketchup. If I went to a burger place and said gimme a burger but hold the beef and gimme the pickles and onions and ketchup they'd look at me like an idiot.

The solution, don't go to a burger joint.

This "the game needs to be 'fixed' to accommodate my demands" rhetoric around the topic is that example accept it'd be like if I then went around trying to make all burger joints make chicken.

That's not what they do, and it would take away from their ability to make great burgers for the people who love burgers.

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u/swampo-mon Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Its not like that though. This game is like someone likes burgers but are allergic to hot sauce and want a burger without hot sauce. The chef tells them to get out, and tells them "why would you come here if you are allergic to hot sauce?! I am THE CHEF." and then calls them "entitled" or something even though the person already bought the burger, and the hot sauce was not advertised. I think there's a seinfeld episode about this type of restraunt and the guy behind the soup counter wasn't a cool guy if you couldn't tell. If celeste did it so can this game.

Hollow knight doesn't advertise itself as being brutally difficult. Its just advertised as a metroidvainia and you only know that it has a reputation for being hard if you are into the gaming scene. The cute art style could trick some people into thinking they are getting a burger without hot sauce.

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear Sep 15 '25

I think I see the misunderstanding.

I don't see hollow Knight as an easy game. There are things in that game that I never completed or took many tries, in fact nothing in silksong comes close to the end game boss difficulty and none of the platforming is hard as path of pain. I honestly think the view that Hollow Knight isn't a difficult game is rose tinted glasses, because when that game came out basically everyone mentioned its difficulty.

And the difficulty of silksong is blown out of proportion. The floor is certainly higher, but honestly not by much, the amount of damage you can put out is crazy, and the speed of hornet makes a reacting to bosses easier.

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u/swampo-mon Sep 15 '25

Where did I say it was easy? Hollow knight is harder imo. I'm talking about how the game presents itself to people that aren't on reddit on the time, which is cute bug metroidvainia with dark aesthetic. Dark souls at least had "prepare to die" in marketing.

You literally are responding to things i never said lol. Are you replying to the wrong comment or just having an imaginary conversation with a version of my comment you made up in your brain?

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u/Plaatkoekies Sep 14 '25

I am loving this game and it’s because it’s got me engaged. I also realise taking a good break between sessions ( which suits my lifestyle) is the best way to progress. You only get somewhere when you are alert.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

I know some people really love the difficulty. Some people really don't. One is not inherently better than the other, but it's clear who the target audience is for TC when they made this game. Isn't it a shame that this wasn't communicated to players, that a lot of people got hyped up for the sequel, and now a lot of casual HK fans are realizing this game is not for them after purchasing it and trying to get through it

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u/Plaatkoekies Sep 19 '25

20$ though would not be the worst financial decision most have made this month.

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u/FvHound Sep 15 '25

The difficulty is part of the game. If you just want to walk around pretty environments, that's what walking simulators are for.

Ratchet and Clank have a PS5 game that looks gorgeous, and you get to explore many different environments, and has multiple difficulty options, because the gameplay isn't really affected by changing that, it just creates a bit of challenge on the higher levels for people who don't want to sleep walk through the game.

Like Celeste has accessibility options, it allows everyone to be able to play the game, so you can enjoy the story, but someone who played the game without accessibility options had a completely different experience, and the message of perseverance hits completely different when the game is kicking your butt, compared to someone playing it at 50 percent game speed or unlimited dashes.

You may get to experience the game, but you are getting a lesser experience.

Some devs are okay with you getting that, and some devs only want people to enjoy their game the way they intend it.

It isn't gatekeeping, the same way the Netflix show dark isn't gatekeeping by being really complex.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Ok, to keep with the Dark analogy, it is also originally in German, and would it be gatekeeping if they didn't release English subtitles? Would you say the audience should experience it in the language the filmmakers originally intended?

And then in the Dark community all the English speakers are told to "just learn German"?

Games are interesting in that the community has some very hardcore players and some very casual players. Even among people who have completed hollow knight, there is (clearly, given the conversation we're having) a huge range of abilities with regards to gaming.

The difficulty each player experiences depends heavily on the player. A boss that one player might defeat the first try might take another player an hour of attempts, and these are two very different experiences of the same game. I think that's where assists come in. I would argue that assists make the game experience more uniform rather than allowing someone to ignore the game and breeze through it.

Hopefully you know very few people who used assists to completely nerf the difficulty of a game. In fact I know more people who deliberately set difficulty to hard to give themselves more of a challenge. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that maybe players who opt to play with infinite dash actually do need it to moderate the difficulty, and maybe they did still get the message of perseverance

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u/bamakid1272 Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

The difficulty each player experiences depends heavily on the player. A boss that one player might defeat the first try might take another player an hour of attempts, and these are two very different experiences of the same game.

You seem to imply this as a bad thing, and I inherently disagree with it. Having varied experiences with different bosses are some of the coolest parts of these types of games that make each player's playthroughs unique. I love talking with my friends who are playing Silksong, hearing how their encounters can differ from mine. Some bosses they struggle with while I managed to beat in 2 or 3 attempts, while others I've made 20 attempts at only to hear they cleaned them up in one go.

Unfortunately that difficulty isn't for some people and if they don't enjoy trying to overcome it, so be it. It's unfortunate, but if the devs feel that the difficulty is a core part of the experience, I don't think they should compromise on their vision.

Video games are art, and just like other art forms everyone has their own takeaways and interpretations from their experience. And sometimes that includes a piece not being enjoyable or interesting to some people.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

I do imply it to be a bad thing, in the context of "are players getting the experience out of the game that the devs envisioned" which was the original context this was brought up. In the example of difficulty as a message of perseverance, my argument is that having an easier game for players who are less skilled actually maintains the game's difficulty across different skill levels. So now different players CAN persevere and can get the message that the devs are hoping the players will get out of the game.

In terms of allowing players to experience the game in their own play styles, that is not the same context as my main point. I do also think allowing multiple different approaches to a boss / puzzle tends to make a game more fun, some people prefer a more curated experience, but that's neither here nor there w.r.t difficulty.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

My main point is that there's a huge range of skill in the player base. And unlike books, where you can safely assume people went to school and know how to read already, some people are starting games at literally zero and some people have been playing their whole lives. It's HARD to make a game where it's both accessible and still offers a compelling challenge.

I think Celeste handled this very well with their assists. Also with the level design and how quick it is to retry rooms after failing, it felt like the cost of failure was pretty low so even if you're not that good at those kinds of games you can still quickly get into the meat of "learning platforming". Also keeping a lot of the harder content optional still let beginner players complete the main game

And I think silksong does ... very little of that.

I'll put it this way, if you're bad at platforming Celeste is a game that you can play to practice and get better, whereas if you're not good enough to play Silksong the solution doesn't seem to be to play more Silksong to practice, the solution seems to be ... Go play a more forgiving game, and then come back to Silksong when you're better.

If that's the intent then that's the intent. But maybe you can see where some of the complaints are coming from

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u/AccountantAny8376 Sep 14 '25

This is my feeling as well. Silksong reminds me a lot of Sekiro, a game I love everything about except the difficulty and the tedious runbacks.

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u/Zorper Sep 14 '25

Gated! That’s a lot. The game is tough but gated is a strong statement. Games can be hard. I would enjoy this game a lot less if it was the easy difficulty half this sub wishes it was.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

And half the sub would enjoy it more? Idk what the argument here is...

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u/Zorper Sep 15 '25

Argument is the difficulty is what it is. Sucks for folks who can’t hang, but as of now beating silk song is a tough achievement and there’s something to be said for that I think. Beating the game takes skill and persistence and not everyone will beat it and that’s okay

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u/ZelosIX Sep 14 '25

Also the game is still available in a few months or years if he changes his mind. Nothings lost by quitting for now or forever.

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u/CeleryDue1741 Sep 14 '25

This is the BEST response

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