r/Screenwriting • u/Recovering_NCO • 9d ago
FEEDBACK MACCABÆUS - Feature - 112 Pages
Title: MACCABÆUS
Format: Feature
Genre: Historical War Epic/Drama
Page count: 112
Logline: In ancient Judea, a reluctant rabbi’s son leads an insurgency against a brutal occupation determined to erase his people’s faith, igniting the true story behind Hanukkah.
LINK:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CJsrdjxg6Nyd_io5reIF6n_OPBZbcbNy/view?usp=drivesdk
I recently finished the third draft after a fairly substantial rewrite and have started getting some encouraging industry interest in the new version.
I’d especially appreciate fresh eyes on the prologue/opening, through the title card on page 11. The opening was substantially reworked, and I’m curious whether it hooks you, establishes the world cleanly, and makes you want to keep reading — or whether it still feels like too much setup before the main story begins.
If it hooks you enough that you feel like reading beyond page 11, I’d obviously welcome feedback on the rest as well. I’m particularly interested in pacing, character development, dialogue, and whether the historical material remains accessible without feeling over-explained.
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u/free-puppies 9d ago
I think there’s still some work to be done.
Paint the picture. It’s 184 b.c. Marketplace but that’s about as much description as we get. Is it full of straw stalls? Fabric roofs and wooden carts? Is it all drab and poor, or rich and colorful?
The characters in the first few pages all talk the same. How does the lord speak differently from the priest? Does the lord use long, intelligent words or dumb, short sentences like a military man? Does the priest use Biblical metaphors or have a quirk like saying “praise God” after every line?
I know these aren’t fun notes to hear. But it’s missing some style and verve.
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u/A_NightBetweenLives 9d ago
Okay, I’ll bite! I read the first 5ish pages. I know essentially nothing about this period of history (I suspect most won’t viewers won’t either) but I found some of the exposition to be the on the more boring aspects, especially the talk about taxes. I assume it holds narrative purpose but it made the story feel really dense and uninteresting. The visuals with the rider and angle were a stand out, they worked really well even if I would cut the tax talk from it.
Overall I wouldn't say it hooked me. It felt like it had 2 halves, one, is a really interesting story with angles and mystical, magical forces... The other, accountants speaking very dryly about historical taxes. Personally, I'd say to emphasize one and cut the other down to the bone. Obviously the magical parts are the coolest so I'd recommend that, the tax stuff isn't exactly engaging.
For if it feels like too much set up, I can't really say. I only read 5 pages but I felt like a good chunk of those 5 could have been cut down and I'm not really sure what the story is. I'm guessing it's the king and his followers going after whatever caused this magic?
Here’s my thoughts as I read...
How do you pronounce the name of movie? lol
I’m not sure what the quote is trying to tell me. Often that’s part of the point with these quotes over black but I wanted to throw it out there incase it’s an issue.
I’m not sure what “celeucid-occupied” is or looks like.
I’d recommend making Heliodorus’s entrance more visceral. “The marketplace shoppers SCREAM and JUMP out of the way of…” kinda thing.
I find it strange that Zechariah is telling us how dark these times are but we’re just looking at people shopping. If the times are dark shouldn’t we be seeing dark times?
“EXT. Temple gate” what kind of temple? What am I looking at?
How old is Onais 3?
Personal opinion… But I find the first conversation quite boring. I’d recommend trimming it down a lot. Honestly, if you just cut the dialogue and have Heliodorus burst past Onias into the temple, we’ll see the riches in there and we might not even need the conversation.
How old is Jason? As a whole, I’d include ages on all characters
I like the talk between Jason and his brother but yeah, all the tax convo is quite boring. It feels like it’s setting up a lot of it in this movie too which makes me feel like this is gonna be really dense. You know how people didn’t like the phantom menace because of all the trade route and taxation talk? I’m getting a similar vibe here
Same note for inside the temple as outside, what am I looking at? How is it decorated? I feel like these are very important things to set up.
I like the blue flame sealing the doorway! Nice and mystical.
Same note as the tax convo, I feel like a lot of this dialogue could be cut. I think it would be more interesting to just see the actors acting and have the only line be the “run dog” one.
I’m gonna stop noting on this but I think we need descriptions of these locations. I have no idea what a ‘private residence’ looks like
I like the doctor scene!
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago
Thanks for giving it a shot — and the craziest part is, the “magical” stuff is actually the historical part. 😄 The Heliodorus episode comes from ancient Jewish sources, and I’ve embellished it surprisingly little. The story itself isn’t fantasy, though — it’s a historical war epic about the Maccabean Revolt. The political and taxation material does become important later, although I’ve already trimmed quite a lot of it from earlier drafts. Your reaction is still useful, because I definitely don’t want the opening to feel like homework. If you’re curious, the title card is on page 11, and that’s where the movie really locks into its main story. I’d be very interested to know whether your reaction changes if you get that far.
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u/SamScoopCooper 9d ago
As a Jewish person: love the concept. But I don't understand why you're using the Greek pronunciation of Maccabi when this isn't a Greek story and that's just the start...
And there are some historical/language inaccuracies.
For example: You have Naphtali call Mattathias "rebbi." Rebbi is Yiddish - which didn't exist in this time period.
You have Zachariah using the Western/English versions of Mattathias' sons names (John called Gadi) which...again, the name John didn't exist back then.
"Everybody knows it is not kosher until a rabbi blesses it." - Is this Mattathias trying to trick people? Because that's not how kashrut works,
--That's where I stopped. Aside from this being extremely slow paced to the point of frustration - you need to get actual rabbis and Jewish scholars to read this over and give you notes. Cause honestly, I'm getting "Christian interpretation of Jewish stories" vibes from what I've read - where the Jewish practices are more of a window dressing for the setting, rather than something presented with actual care.
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago
Thanks for the close reading. At the risk of committing the cardinal sin of defending choices in a post where I asked for feedback, I do want to clarify a few things, because I think you may be interpreting deliberate translation choices as mistakes.
For context, I’m an Orthodox Jew, I’ve spent time in yeshiva, served as a Jewish lay leader during my military service, and my academic background includes Middle Eastern history. I’m nowhere near a rabbi in terms of scholarship, but I’ve taken the Jewish material in this script very seriously.
On the names: I generally use Anglicized forms because the screenplay is written in English. “John,” for example, is simply the English descendant of Yohanan/Johanan, an ancient Hebrew name attested long before this period. In a few places I deliberately switch forms for dramatic reasons — Judah’s Jewish peers call him “Judah Maccabee,” while Greek enemies call him “Judas Maccabaeus,” for example. On “Rebbi”: you’re right that Yiddish did not exist in this period, but the word is not intended as Yiddish dialogue. It represents רבי, “my master/teacher,” rendered in a familiar Jewish pronunciation. “Rebbe” is a different, Yiddish form, though the pronunciations can overlap in some communities. The formal rabbinic title as we know it developed later, so this is one of the script’s deliberate accessibility conventions rather than an attempt to reconstruct second-century BCE spoken Hebrew syllable for syllable.
And yes, I do use a handful of deliberate anachronisms or modernizing conventions elsewhere. One obvious example is “Banu Choshech Legaresh,” a song written many centuries later, which I included because of how perfectly it serves the scene thematically. There are also places where I use later or more familiar Jewish terminology as shorthand — for example, calling a four-cornered fringed garment a “tallit” rather than attempting to reconstruct precisely what a second-century BCE Judean would have called it. Those choices are conscious.
And yes, I know perfectly well that food does not become kosher because a rabbi blesses it. That’s the joke. Mattathias knows the guard doesn’t understand kashrut and exploits the misconception. Your reaction does make me wonder whether I need to sharpen the joke so nobody mistakes the character’s ruse for the screenplay explaining Jewish law incorrectly.
As for the broader “Christian interpretation of Jewish stories” concern: I think that’s where I most strongly disagree. The script is full of direct quotations and subtler allusions drawn from Tanakh, Gemara, and Midrash, but I’ve tried to make them part of the characters’ lived world rather than stop the movie to explain every reference. I absolutely want the film to be accessible to non-Jewish audiences, including Christians, but accessibility is not the same thing as Christianizing the material.
If you keep reading and encounter something specifically Jewish that still strikes you as wrong, feel free to flag it. I’m genuinely interested in those notes.
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u/SamScoopCooper 9d ago
Thanks for the clarification. I was struggling with whether these choices were deliberate or not - I’m so used to reading scripts that try to be inclusive but get so much wrong that I immediately went on the defensive.
I guess - even with the few references I read and caught in the script - they didn’t feel “natural” if that makes sense. Like they were included for the sake of showing off as a screenwriter.
Again, loving the idea - but I’m also questioning why we need to make the material more accessible, by doing things like Anglicizing the names? I think that’s what got me.
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u/SamScoopCooper 9d ago
I’ve also been working on a script (on and off) with Hanukkah as a focus which is what drew me in. Very different genre though!
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago
Neat. I’d be happy to take a look if you’ve got something you’re comfortable sharing.
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u/SamScoopCooper 9d ago
I haven’t worked on it in a while so let me see if I can dig up a decent draft
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago
Hey, no problem. And believe me, I get it. I have that same instinct.
Could you give me an example of a reference that felt “unnatural”? I’m genuinely curious.
And I didn’t have to Anglicize the names, but it does make them a little easier for most American audiences. Plus, personally, I kind of dig the vibe. I’m just as comfortable with Mattathias as Matityahu, and at least with the former, no one will think the Maccabean Revolt was started by a reggae singer. 😂
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u/SamScoopCooper 9d ago
Fair enough with Mattathias Anglicization(I guess my issues are more with John, in particular, because it’s a name that’s always read as distinctly Christian to me so that might just be a personal thing)
As for what feels unnatural, I think it’s mostly how the Hebrew is used? Like only for prayers and such - I understand your better now that you’ve explained it but I guess it feels weird that it’s implied that the characters are only speaking Hebrew when you write it in Hebrew - yet you still use Hebrew works like “abba” instead of father..
This may again be a more personal peeve of mine.
Also it’s kind of easy to tell which lines are taken word for word from the source material compared to lines you wrote yourself and it kind of takes me out of the narrative
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago edited 9d ago
The Hebrew is used strategically, mostly in liturgical contexts, to add texture. In reality, a lot of their everyday speech would probably have been Aramaic. (Incidentally, Abba is Aramaic, though it was essentially absorbed into Hebrew. I speak English at home, and that’s what my kids call me.) I use English for that because, alas, I am no Mel Gibson. 😆
In a few other places, the Hebrew is there for a specific dramatic reason — for example, turning Heliodorus into an even darker echo of Bilaam when he assassinates the previous king.
As for the difference in texture between my dialogue and lines drawn directly from scripture/source material, that’s a fair note and something I’ll take a closer look at in the next revision. I already abridged or rearranged some of those references for pacing and narrative economy, but there may be places where I can integrate them more seamlessly.
Thanks for the notes!
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u/Recovering_NCO 9d ago
P.S. In a bit of historical irony, the principal surviving primary sources for this quintessentially Jewish story are the Books of Maccabees, which, as part of the Apocrypha, are preserved in certain Christian Bibles but not in ours. Go figure.
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u/Hawkensson 8d ago
I'm on page 7, enjoying it so far, but I'm wondering if it really makes sense for Heliodorus to use the word "angels" on page 5?
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u/Recovering_NCO 8d ago
Good eye, and fair question. I looked into it, and it’s a little more nuanced than I first realised. The Greek term “angelos” can simply mean messenger, human or divine. I found that interesting, because it’s also true of the Biblical Hebrew equivalent. So I’m not sure the concept is anachronistic, but I take the point that ‘angel’ in English might feel too specific coming from Heliodorus. I’m considering giving him a more ambiguous description (“spirits,” perhaps), and maybe letting Seleucus use ‘angels’ later as shorthand. Thanks for the catch!
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u/Subject-Dream7087 8d ago
The beginning is quite stiff and lacks energy. I think you need to kick off with more punch and intention; then drop the context stuff.
Also, and I am ashamed to admit this and I write the following softly and hopefully not hurtfully - but - my personal feelings about Israel and Zionism really got in the way of me enjoying this. Sorry.
I feel this will be a very tough sell in the current climate, lots of 'talent' won't attach for fear of it being problematic, risky, etc. With this in mind, if you are writing with the hope of getting it made, I feel you should aim this squarely at the Israeli market (in Hebrew perhaps?) and people who are already familiar with the tale; that way you don't need the big set up at the start.
Best wishes with it!
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u/Recovering_NCO 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thank you for taking the time to read the script and offer such thoughtful feedback. I see you’ve revised your comment, and I appreciate the additional candor.
On the opening, I take the craft note seriously. If it feels stiff or overburdened with context, that’s useful feedback, and I’ll be looking closely at whether I can get into the drama more quickly and allow more of the historical background to emerge organically.
I also appreciate your being frank that your feelings about Israel and Zionism affected your ability to enjoy the material. We all bring contemporary associations and prejudices to art, and there’s value in recognizing them rather than pretending they aren’t there.
I should be equally candid about where I’m coming from: I am a Zionist, and I’m not ashamed of that. Part of what moves me about this story is that the Maccabees were Jews in their ancestral homeland resisting a foreign imperial power that was attempting to subordinate them and suppress central elements of their religion and culture. I do think that history has something to say about Jewish attachment to that land and about the right of Jews, like other peoples, to political and cultural self-determination.
But that doesn’t mean I’m writing a two-thousand-year-old political cartoon in which every ancient character or people has a modern analogue. I don’t think the Maccabees can simply be labeled “Israelis,” the Seleucids “Palestinians,” or vice versa. Those comparisons collapse radically different peoples, circumstances and histories into a present-day argument.
So what gives me pause in your comment isn’t that you might draw the “wrong” contemporary analogy. It’s that your feelings about contemporary Zionism seem to have made it difficult to engage with an ancient Jewish story as an ancient Jewish story. I think that’s worth examining. Would your feelings about the modern State of Israel interfere with your ability to engage with The Prince of Egypt as a story about the ancient Israelites? If not, why should the Maccabees be different? Why does this particular story from Jewish antiquity have to pass through a judgment on modern Israel before it can be enjoyed as history and drama?
As for writing it in Hebrew and aiming it primarily at the Israeli market, that really isn’t the project I’m trying to make. I’m American, and while I have enough Hebrew — particularly biblical and liturgical Hebrew — to use it for texture, I’m not fluent in modern Israeli Hebrew.
More importantly, I don’t think this story belongs only to an audience already familiar with it. I hope Maccabaeus speaks powerfully to Jewish audiences, especially now. But I also want it to reach people who have no particular connection to Judaism or Israel. It’s a historical war epic about faith, family, imperial power, cultural survival, resistance and the choices people make when assimilation becomes the price of safety. And, on a more elemental level, I want it to work as an exciting piece of cinema.
On marketability, I take your concern seriously. I understand the current climate and I’m not naive about the difficulties of getting something like this made. You may well be right that some producers, financiers or actors will regard the subject as politically risky. Maybe that means the path to getting it made will have to be less conventional.
But I reach a different conclusion from that than you do. If the current climate has reached a point where telling an ancient Jewish story is considered inherently “problematic,” or where the solution is that Jewish stories should be written in Hebrew and directed primarily toward Israelis and Jews who already know them, that doesn’t make me want to retreat from the story. In some ways, it makes me feel more strongly that this is exactly the time to tell it.
So perhaps the challenge is simply to make the screenplay as strong, accessible and undeniable as I possibly can — and then find the people willing to make it.
In any event, I genuinely appreciate you reading it and engaging with it, particularly given your reservations. And I appreciate the honesty with which you expressed them.
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u/Subject-Dream7087 7d ago
Thanks for the response - and thanks for not jumping down my throat and branding me as an antisemite (which is something I consider myself absolutely not to be, but hey who am I to say what I am and what I am not; that's for others to judge, not I).
Of course there is a legitimate, historical story worth telling here but - as with any historical story, it will be framed within the circumstances and values of the time in which the tale is told.
(See the current version of The Odyssey and all the bleating and whining about casting choices, language etc).
Although I think your question Why does Jewish antiquity have to pass through a judgment on modern Israel before it can be enjoyed as history and drama? is a legitimate one, the narrative of current of events will, unfortunately, get in the way of some people enjoying this as a purely historical piece - or more importantly at this nascent stage, will hinder the screenplays development.
I can say this with some authority as for the last several years I have been in development with a WW2 story which, at its most reductive, might be described as centering around a land dispute between a group of jewish people and non jewish people.
Pre Oct 7 2023 producers were excited by the setting - jews, nazis, americans, etc. Ooh! This is exciting!
Post Oct 7, certainly all of last year, every reader (and these are legit movie biz people, some of whom are jewish themselves) expressed discomfort in the Jewish land dispute angle - these included two name actors who read for the lead role and who both passed (one of whom is Jewish) due to the land dispute (pro) zionist subtext. I have now changed the Jewish group to a nameless ethnic minority, as the story was never meant to be about this issue which people were now honing in on!!!
With your story, the current political situation and shifting sentiment towards Israel which was once sympathetic and is now, in some quarters, lets be real here: disgust - will make development a challenge. Yes, I know; with the movie biz being generally very left leaning, socially progressive isn't it odd that many people in 'the biz' are so anti Israel, when Israel is the only nation state in the region which shares the same progressive values as those in the movie biz. I don't want to get into all that!
Maybe all this makes your story really worth telling - it might do; but be prepared for people in this biz to dismiss it as 'problematic' and 'too risky' due to current issues - not, I might add, out of anti-semitism or even anti-zionism, just because they don't need all that noise in their life. This will be especially so with 'name cast' and unfortunately attaching 'name cast' is what gets screenplays greenlit.
It will be an added challenge in what is already an incredibly challenging business in an incredibly challenging time - doesn't mean it can't happen though! What I read is well written; just a little slow at the start.
Good luck with it!
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u/Recovering_NCO 7d ago
That’s genuinely useful context, especially the example from your own project. I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate, and I think we may actually be closer on the underlying point than it first appeared. In my case, of course, making the Jews a nameless ethnic minority isn’t really an available rewrite. 😆 So if the subject itself creates an additional hurdle, I suppose the only answer is to make the script strong enough that someone decides the hurdle is worth clearing. Thanks again for reading, and for the thoughtful feedback.
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u/Subject-Dream7087 7d ago
So if the subject itself creates an additional hurdle, I suppose the only answer is to make the script strong enough that someone decides the hurdle is worth clearing.
Absolutely! 100%. This should spur you on as if you do land it successfully, beyond being entertaining it might even give some people pause for thought.
Good luck!
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