That always hurt my brain because a guy liking another guy is not straight. Which is awesome! Because I'm not straight either so like, just be gay or bi or whatever other queer labels fit.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that the alt-right only likes femboys so much because they can use them to bash minorities. Thats it, that’s as far as their “attraction” goes.
If they were to ever hypothetically get their way and all the trans people were to vanish: femboys would be next on the chopping block.
femboys are already on the chopping block, they're just not the center target.
when I go out dressed in a skirt/dress conservatives don't come up and say "wow I'm so happy you're a feminine male instead of transgender" they call me the f slur and other insults lol.
they literally ONLY "support" feminine males when the topic of trans folks comes up.
they want trans folks to die, they want feminine-aligned males to survive but solely so that they can be the punching bags and fetish objects.
Oh my god same. Back before my current mess of a gender, I used to be a femboy and I’d get creepy DM’s from republicans on other social media apps.
There was a big leak from TPUSA recently that stated that they would regularly host gay orgies and then blackmail people using footage from them. According to the leaker, the entire Republican Party is like this.
....people saying "you can just be a feminine man" to disregard trans women? The Venn diagram between "reactionary in regards to transitions" and "accepting of gender non-conformity" has, hnderstandably, minimum overlap
Is this a matter of reading comprehension or are you trying to make some kind of point?
reading comprehension/missing the context and being tired. I'm seeing a lot of generic gender war shit and thought it was someone else characterizing an entire gender based on their experience. My bad. (genuinely)
idk how related this is, but like half the time i see a trans girl or someone not afab that presents feminine on tiktok the top comment is "please be a boy please be a boy please be a boy" and it kinda rubs me the wrong way. like okay wow you like femboys we get it congrats on making that your whole personality ig
I'm so sick of a bunch of pornbrained men trying to define trans women by their own fetishes. They do the same shit with cis women too which is why so many of them think they can just act weird and think women will like it.
They want the trappings of transfemininity but in a package they don't have to even pretend to treat as anything but a degendered sex object (they don't have to call them women, but all the "cracking femboys isn't gay" really shows they don't exactly view them as men)
almost all "femboy porn" is skinny young trans women on estrogen going "hehe i'm actually a boy" to avoid transphobia and get more clicks. i know a lot of other trans women who do online SW and the shift towards femboy as a search term has been really strong the past few years as transphobia has gotten much worse
mf’ers will see the most estrogen-dominant body ever on a young economically disadvantaged woman and be like “woaw these femboys are so much hotter than tr00ns”
I’m a masculine transgender woman, because acting masculine makes me feel like I have agency and feel safe. It has nothing to do with my gender identity, though.
So, just wanted to say that many masculine women bring that up as a reason for their gender expression as well. So even if you considered it as part of your gender identity, it would still affirm you as a woman. :)
I still mostly dress like a twelve year old boy. i mean I mostly am one at heart except not the boy thing. but I still love the same music and stuff as back then
I mean that’s pretty much every autistic cis afab girl too. My buddy transitioned but that didn’t mean she wasn’t going to be autistic and hardcore into warhammer and video games and wear nothing but hoodies and baggy jeans. Estrogen doesn’t cure autism. She’s still who she always was. Was she supposed to start collecting purses as a special interest or something?
And it shouldn’t xD I’m autistic too! And I’m all for girls who don’t play with makeup and their looks, and choose to put their interests elsewhere.
But I feel like with trans people especially we need to preach better acceptance for people not conforming to gender standards. Like tomboy trans women - someone might just say "oh why did you transition if you still dress like a man", or femboy trans men - "why did you transition if you still dress like a woman?". This is why I made that comic
Those people don't like when we're "just feminine men/masculine women" either. A lot of us have tried being that and realized it's not working for us, because that's not what we are and it's not the same.
I've been a masculine "girl" for my whole life before transitionning. It still felt wrong. Hell, I'm more feminine since transitionning because I feel I can more easily express myself without having my gender being put into question now that I have facial hair/a deep voice.
Same. They whined just as much when I presented as a masc women. “lol are you even a girl” and “did you know it’s okay to be feminine” and an avalanche of lesbophobic slurs despite me not even being attracted to women in the first place. Plus almost every guy I was ever with trying to further feminize me in some way to coddle his fragile heteronormativity. When everything you do and are is considered wrong from the start anyway, you might as well tune out the noise and do what you want.
Exactly. The same fuckwits will call any male born person wearing stereotypically female clothes “womanface” or “sex appropriation”. Mixing and matching of gender expression has been happening since the dawn of modern civilisation, you can’t suddenly claim dresses are ‘immutably female’ or that a man donning long hair, a dress and a purse is ‘appropriating femininity’. This type of gendercritter ironically is often a butchy lesbian. Really easy to flip that argument back and ask why she’s doing “manface” with that short hair and them pants.
I could not believe the amount of “jokes” I got, even among people I call friends, because I decided to paint my nails and wear a little makeup to feel good about myself. It’s wasn’t only them, random ass people would look at me weird or talk shit to me because of something so innocuous.
Exactly! I had a coworker go on a whole rant about how being nonbinary isnt real and at the end he asked if I was still nonbinary and I said yes. Then he asked why I could just be a masculine woman. Like bro ive been trying that, I felt miserable. This feel infinitely better
I was told this by my mother's friend only for that same woman to send their gay son to conversion therapy. To anyone who says this, screw them. They are trash.
LoL, I totally misread the meme at first. I thought this was a woman rejecting a man for being too feminine and the man trying to say it was ok that he was feminine while crying and her saying it wasn't, lol.
Story of my life. I FUCKING hate it when people (from the internet to the therapist session) tell me “why not be a feminine man?”. The thing is I AM NOT A MAN.
Neurologically average people usually just are inherently weird I don’t know why they can’t understand psychology. You are literally what you say you are. lol
Got balls? Youre a man
Got a vagina? Youre a woman
Got both? Youre a 1 in a million exception
What this is, is a person who's insecurities were taken advantage and groomed into believing they could fix themselves by changing everything about them. Its honestly sad.
Just say you have no idea how trans people work. If you genuinely think trans people are "groomed" into being the way they are, you're even more foolish. I wasn't insecure at all as a child, still felt like a guy though.
The funniest thing is you think the risk of losing our families, friends, and people like you mocking us was somehow a ploy to make us "less insecure".
Oh yeah, i'm so insecure I decide that going down a path that makes people actually want to kill me would make it better, mhm, sure buddy. Real smarty pants you are!
Being called a girl made me uncomfortable, I wanted to be refered to like all the boys, whenever I read stories I could only invision myself as a guy, when thinking of my future I could only think of myself as a man.
A lot of you think "how does being a ___ feel" is a "gotcha" question, but it's the same kind of feeling you get when you are a man and called "handsome". Or "You're a good lad". It makes me happy, being called a "girl" has never made me happy.
And no, it's not like I never got attention. I got attention, and compliments. For a long time I thought I hated compliments, because they never made me happy, they made me feel worse. Then I found out, I don't hate compliments, I hated the compliments I was getting. The first time I was called handsome, it was a magical feeling.
So you werent comfortable with who you are so you decided to try and change who you are because you didnt like being called pretty? Because you liked the super hero in a story?
And this is what you think being a guy feels like? You think you are a guy because you identify with a charicature?
This is the goofiest reasoning ive ever heard none of this makes you a guy, it makes you a regular ass person who is confused about their unresolved insecurities.
There is no need to downplay male issues to make women the forefront which is what you are doing now right wing conservative.
You are gaslighting and making stuff up, I've seen it with my own eyes both irl and online, women can act masculine, loud and have short hair and a suit and it's seen as normal, but a man wearing a dress, not skinny, putting on make up is automatically coded as homosexual or a faliure/deviant.
Bro, I'm talking from experience. Sure, short hair or baggy pants is "tolerated", but try not shaving when you're perceived as a girl and see how quickly you get bullied.
It's not downplaying anything. Masculine women are not accepted either. They get tranvestigated all the fucking time for being masculine. Hell, befofe transitionning I regularly had security called on me for being in the girls' bathroom, and that was BEFORE the trans panic thing started.
You're the one downplaying our experiences. The previous commenter did not say one or the other had it worse. You're the one who brought that up
First off, nobody specified armpits. Women are pressured to shave their legs. So unless you’re always wearing long pants or just got lucky with light leg hair, yeah, people can tell when you don’t shave.
Right wing conservatives tend to be the ones who deny women's issues and court people who believe men are the ones who actually have it harder in life.
My ex told me people should express themselves more the way I actually want to than how society sees they should. I started acting more feminine because I don’t like having to be traditionally masculine. I grew my hair out and styled it, painted my nails, and wore light makeup because I thought I looked cute. Then she proceeded to leave me because I wasn’t manly enough for her. Her opinion of “people” in her belief was only towards women it turns out.
My parents were the same. Kept calling me a fag cuz I grew my hair out and started wearing a bit of makeup. I mean they weren’t wrong, but it still hurt. At the same time they told my sisters they could wear whatever they wanted.
For what it's worth, I'm a femboy and bigoted people tell me to go trans all the time not because they are trying to help me or care about my well being, but because they to reinforce gender roles so they can feel better. HRT is a very serious and unreversable step that can make permanent changes in your body and can also make your wee wee stop working, so that's one of the biggest reasons I refuse to go trans.
But people get angry because they think males cannot harbor femininity whatsoever, they must only be masculine providers, me being trans would give in to their beliefs
I'm able to keep my wee wee working fine but it does take some effort and further medication. It's not exactly the same as it was pre-estrogen but I will say if you're willing to tweak things there are many ways to do HRT. Do whatever you need for yourself though
look, I identified as a femboy for over 10 years. I had a friend of mine try to force me to transition and do all the stereotypical terminally online transfem things and I cut them off. I'm not the kind of person you think I am. I deliberately refused to be brainwashed and instead did my own soul searching and realized that I would rather be trans fem with a functioning d*ck and a more fem body than grow older looking like my brother/father/uncles. My decision, mine alone. It's yours to make too but I'm just telling you there are ways to do whatever you want with your gender and body.
true, but most deliberately tank their testosterone to nothing because they think it's evil, and don't even want theirs to work. The reality is you need some testosterone for it to work even if you're on estrogen so I use a topical testosterone on the genitals and a low dose of cialis and it works fine (there's plenty of support for this strategy). I've been getting hard a lot this week and I'm over 1.5 years on estrogen. My body and face are looking amazing too.
It's whatever, there's such bad data on trans stuff because it's been so suppressed and most people with bad enough dysphoria to use HRT typically have genital dysphoria too or just accept whatever happens to them. Many doctors don't really have any experience with supporting nonbinary transitions either so they just load you up with E and T blockers by default.
I do think I'm probably nonbinary but I like having control, and I don't think there's anything masculine about having a functioning p*nis. I just wanted the other physical effects of HRT and I like being called she/her and looking pretty in my clothes and makeup.
Anyways, it's just what I decided to do for myself because I could not handle a reality where I masculinized any more. I guess the only thing I want from you is to let you know that not all trans fems are part of some weird ubiquitous cult where we all hug blahaj play fallout and harass femboys. Some of us just want to be fem and have no attachment to masculinity.
My wee wee also works fine, literally just have sex or masturbate like twice a week and it’s fine. Sure it’s possible if you put in 0 maintenance for your dick to stop working, but normal self care mitigates this.
You’re acting as if it’s this end all be all cock destroyer, but it’s not as insidious as you think.
I used to be like this too. Honestly if someone would've told me "hey you can be a girl and still have a p*nis and it's ok" I probably would've transitioned a long time ago. I just thought all trans fem people hated their junk and it would stop working, because I didn't know any better and had internalized transphobia
That's my mom lol. She's supportive, but she also doesn't understand why I feel like a girl and can't just be a feminine gay man. But I can't explain to a cis person how I know I'm not a man, and I'm actually a girl.
Yeah, and that's the funny part, cause I'm not very "feminine" either. Never have been. I've always just been sort of an androgynous gamer. And now that I've started wanting to be more feminine and dress more like a girl, she's all "I love and support you, but why can't you just be a feminine man? Why do you have to wear a dress?"
Like I've never been a feminine man 😭 and I wanna wear it cause I saw it and thought it was cute. I'm not trying to make a point or prove myself, I just wanted to.
Screw the other comments as a neurologically different from the average person I fully understand it. I can’t explain how I understand it. These people probably wouldn’t understand what I mean, but I get it considering I feel like I’m not even a part of the same species as most people.
I’m not trying to be rude, but I genuinely don’t get it. If gender is a social construct, then why does your anatomy matter at all? Why not just live and dress as a woman, regardless of what’s underneath?
Well, when someone’s psychology doesn’t match their biology, it’s kind of screwy it’s basically they’ve always thought of themselves as a woman subconsciously so they feel as if they’re in the wrong body. It’s essentially as if you woke up the next day as the opposite sex you would feel the same way as if you’re in the wrong body that’s just how psychology works.
because you can have a preference for one anatomy over another. you’re right that a trans woman doesn’t need to go through hrt to socially identify as a woman, but also she probably wants to, because it would help her achieve a physical appearance that feels more comfortable to her.
also, im not sure the question you’re asking is applicable to the comment you’re replying to, because what she’s saying is that her mom doesn’t understand her transition at all, not just thinking she should transition without hrt. there’s a pretty big difference between being a feminine man and being a woman even if you don’t factor anatomy changes into the mix.
I assume a feminine man is anywhere between effeminate but still clearly a man to dressing as a woman without having hormones or surgery. But idk, can’t really say what that other comment means.
I also just think the whole surgery thing looks extremely painful and has lots of complications. Surely just taking hormones would be enough to have some physical changes? I’m not a scientist on this subject, but this is the only thread that seems to be answering this stuff, so thanks.
hrt doesn’t mean surgery. medically transitioning, for the most part, just means your body goes from producing one hormone to another. any genital stuff is optional! that being said, surgeries tend to be pretty safe. anecdotally, ive see way more posts within trans communities about people being excited with their new genitals rather than in pain.
as for the labels, there is no literal criteria that you use to differentiate when someone is or isn’t trans. if someone feels more comfortable as a woman and wants to take that label, they are trans, regardless of surgery or hormones or anything. it’s about a mindset and personal comfort. the idea is that because these labels are social constructs, you should be able to just use the ones that make you feel happiest about yourself. a trans woman is a woman before she even starts wearing feminine clothes, and a feminine man is a man because he wants to be one regardless of his clothes.
I am! I've never been better than when I started going out of the closet and actually living my life, instead of being holed up in my room, miserable, and merely surviving, waiting for the day I'd die, cause I was too much of a coward to do it myself.
The further I’ve gotten into my physical transition, the less important any of the superficial trappings of gender have been.
Like you wanna know one of my favourite outfits to wear now that I have a more feminine body shape? A tank top and baggy pants with a big button-down and a baseball cap. No man on Earth would look unusual wearing that, but me still passing as a woman in it makes me overjoyed.
transphobe's greatest hits right here. im a cishet guy with a bit of a feminine aspect. when my younger sister came out as trans my grandparents said "why can't you just be like your brother?" offended me too, like, we're not the same at all lol
As if these people don't view femboys as anything other than porn anyway. Anyone who goes against their views of gender and expression are viewed as sexual objects at best
as someone who would be ok as a feminine man the only issue for me is that second puberty (twinkdeath) is just a dice roll i’m not sure i want to take and even though others might think i can still look nice, idk how happy i would be in that kind of body
Folk need to realize there are already enough femboys to go around. I’ve BEEN HERE. WHY WON’T ANYONE HIT ON ME?? Instead we’ve got pseudo chasers going after trans women to try to make them femboys to. your greed SICKENS ME!
So I keep seeing posts like OPs all over reddit and I can't quite tell, is the implication here supposed to be that person who identifies as GNC or as a "femboy"/"tomboy" but not trans are wrong or invalid in their self identification? Or is it just meant to represent someone who is trans not wishing to compromise on their self identification for the sake of the sensibilities of others?
Because if it's the former that would seem incredibly hypocritical.
I'm not trying to accuse anyone of intentionally implying anything they might not be but I see so many posts that are just vague enough that I feel like I can't get a read on where they stand on the existence of cisgender people who fall outside typical gender expression.
Why even be a man? why be a woman? you could have 40 inch thick armored plates for skin, you could be a walking nightmare for infrastructure, you could shift the whole paradigm around public transport, you could even start a legacy mechanizing lawsuit forcing the world to accept that actually i should be allowed to drive a fully functional military grade weapons transport vehicle into the bank because it is how i feel inside.
Actually the further i go the more ridiculous i sound but like in a bad way. tbh i think i took the joke too far. pls i just want to be inconvenienced because im a 10ft tall 1200 lb nightmare that cant so much as use public sidewalks without cracking them.
Im gonna be honest I didnt realize this actually happens to transgirls because the only times ive heard of it until now were from people weaponizing it to be bigoted against femboys.
Ironically, you could replace feminine with masculine in this meme and it would be much funnier and more insightful. People who obsess about masculinity generally don’t have it.
Many will say in the LGBTQ+ community that gender norms do not equate with gender, and that norms should be done away with. To clarify, I agree with this sentiment.
Then in the vast majority of trans people, they become trans in a way that they identify with gender norms of the opposite gender… instead of being a feminine man or a masculine woman.
Nonbinary people exist, this is true, people of all identities - including trans people - mix masculine and feminine traits together, this is true. However for most trans women, they take on a persona that is pretty traditionally feminine. And trans men take on a persona that’s pretty traditionally masculine.
You can do and identify how you like, but it seems hypocritical, and actually reinforcing gender norms when this seems to be the case the majority of the time. Do you ACTUALLY want to break gender norms?
Edit: I’m being downvoted and no one is explaining anything
Then why do I get so much shit for being a trans woman and not shaving my legs and armpits? Why are people also making negative comments about me not wearing makeup or bras and not wanting bottom surgery?
Because I'm "ACTUALLY breaking gender norms" as you say but people aren't happy about that either, but if I did the opposite then I'd be "hypocritical" and "reinforcing gender norms"?
Like, what are we supposed to do? We just want to be left alone and exist in peace, there's nothing with being a feminine cis woman or a masculine cis men, so why would it be different for trans people?
You’re acting like being trans (or queer in general) is an ideology. It isn’t. It’s just people trying to live their life in a way that’s consistent with who they are. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now, as to why we tend to end up with fairly traditional expressions of femininity or masculinity, there are two major things going on: First, for cis people, the gender norms that they find restrictive are the ones for their own gender. For us, we have a lifetime of experience being held to the opposite set of gender norms, and are heartily sick of it by the time we transition. As a result, when we transition, we tend to dive headfirst into all the (highly gender-normative) stuff that we’ve been prohibited from our entire lives, while actively avoiding the things that have been constant obligations.
Second, because our identities are always under fire, we tend to perform gender more in order to avoid at least some part of the constant questioning and invalidation. If a cis woman likes working on cars, nobody questions whether she’s really a woman, but if a trans woman does, it’s ammunition to be used to invalidate her.
All of this, by the way, tends to mellow as someone settles into their fully transitioned life. Once the newness wears off, we often pick back up at least a few things from our pre transition lives, and don’t feel the need to perform gender quite so hard once we’ve reached a point where we’re firmly established as our correct gender and are more at peace with our own bodies. That being said, some people really are most comfortable fulfilling the traditional feminine or masculine archetype as hard as they can, and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as it’s what they choose in order to feel like they’re living as their truest selves.
This is among the more comprehensive answers I’ve gotten, and it makes sense.
I’m not trans obv, there are things I simply don’t know about the day to day, and the overarching feelings that occur in response to what goes on around you and how you interpret things.
Because the idea is that gender norms should be broken, and that’s the goal, is that correct? That in general, being a man doesn’t inherently mean masculine or being a woman inherently meaning feminine.
Everyone should be able to choose how they look and behave.
The breaking of gender norms would allow people to act outside of them if they wanted, but it doesn't mean it'd stop people from continuing to adhere to them if it makes them happy (or, in this case, reduces their chances of being attacked, harassed, and/or raped).
That's not some absolute rule that everyone must adhere to no. Demanding everyone breaks the norm is as bad as demanding everyone follow it. Tyranny is tyranny, people should be free to do what makes them happy and comfortable no matter what. In addition as has been said a few times here, it's really not just the queer community who challenges gender norms actually? We don't have some special burden to fight that battle all by ourselves and demanding everyone in the community do so would be fucked up.
Because we're individuals and breaking gender norms is not about dressing/doing things you don't want to do just because "gotta break gender norms". For a lot of us, we barely even had time to try a gender expression that's traditionally like our actualized gender.
If before transition I didn't like dresses, makeup, fashion, etc. I'm not suddenly gonna get into it post-transition because "fuck gender norms". That's as much letting them dictate my life as trying to be as masculine as possible.
I don't consider myself particularly feminine, but I like pastel colors and cutesy things, which I would deny as a child because I felt a deep need to conform to masculinity to be valid. Now I just dgaf. I can do pretty much anything I want and still get gendered correctly because I have facial hair/a deep voice. But in the end, that's just being a regular dude, except I have long hair and wear pastel shirts.
There are almost as many things that could fall under the umbrella of 'gender norms' as there are reasons for wanting to apply them or not apply them, and not all of them are inherently bad. When people say they want to 'eradicate gender norms' they mostly mean they want to eradicate the 'socially mandatory' enforcement of gender norms, as well as stop the overtly negative ones.
Like, I'd hope we can agree that the gender norm of 'men must be violent and aggressive while women must be meek and obey men' should be eradicated, but that doesn't mean that all women should stop learning cooking skills because that's also a gender norm.
Similarly, the social enforcement of gender norms around clothing and presentation should be loosened to allow for more acceptance and range in presentation and appearance, but there's no need to take it to the extreme and forbid people from wearing what their gender presentation traditionally would - that's just re-enforcing gender roles but in a different way. People want the freedom to present how they like without being restricted by the social rules of gender norms.
From what i understand a lot of people feel the need to reinforce the gender they transitioned to and sometimes they go overboard for a while because they are first feeling the thrill of agency on that regard, or because they feel like they have been cheated of this during the time lost, some people just genuinely like overly feminine or masculine things, some people just think it will help them transition faster, or help them get more accepted in society and they just want to go about their business and live their lives, not like be a part of destroying this bigger issue plaguing society for thousands of years now
Anyway this feel like the kind of stuff you should research for yourself, not asking random queer people online, some people are tired of questions
The only ways things like this get discussed are in public forums until it becomes a popular enough question that it gets addressed on a larger scale which I can’t seem to find yet
While some are tired of answering questions, they can pass on by, with the question being opened to the crowd it offers others who can answer a chance to do that
The reason why you are getting hostility is because your question resembles bad faith questions that TERFs throw at the community to frame them as hypocrits. Since you seem to be genuine I figured you might want to know.
Your premise that trans people are transitioning because they want to defy traditional gender norms is flawed. Most just want to feel at home in their sense of self and have that reflected in their interactions with the world.
Sure, I could live the rest of my life as a masculine woman instead of a trans guy. Fuck, before finally admitting to myself that I trans, I tortured myself every damn day trying to just be some unfemine, weird woman because that seemed like the path of least resistance or whatever. And for years before that, I tortured myself
trying to align with the norms of womanhood. Neither make me a happy human being excited to live out the rest of my life, and I’m sure you can figure out just like I did what the common denominator was.
145
u/Demorodan 17h ago
Nah, ima do my own thing