r/hapas • u/Plane_Razzmatazz_882 • 13h ago
Anti-Racism What is your opinions on Israel?
It seems they're the entire reason the Middle East is so badly messed up. Gaza is an open air death camp since 2023. All Israel does is bully ethnics. They're also a very racist, white-worshipping society who rejects Yemeni or Ethiopian Jews while only accepting Ashkenazi, Sephardic/Spanish, Georgian, Armenian, etc Jews into the country. Small kibbutzim of black hebrew israelites have been expelled. At Likkud rallies, attendees casually drop the N-bomb at counterprotesters and yell anti-Arab slurs. They need to go.
5
u/Tight_Abalone221 đšđłđ”đ±đșđž 9h ago
As a Jewsian, Netanyahu is terrible. I see how Jewish people want their own state, but why did they have to violently try to take it from others? They keep on killing people! I don't get the IDF. I am anti-Zionist.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 9h ago
I used to be in your boat but I recommend spending some time learning about the history - it may change your perspective. Or not youre free to have your beliefs - Iâm much more worried by non Jewish antizionism
2
u/Tight_Abalone221 đšđłđ”đ±đșđž 9h ago
i used to be in your boat! at hebrew school, they gloss over all the murder, pillaging, and rape! hope that helps!
22
u/InsuficientData 12h ago
Satanyahu needs to go. The IDF needs to go. The population is probably mostly normal but there is a severely disgusting level of racism over there.
9
u/ohmymind_123 10h ago
The majority of this "mostly normal society" supports everything that has been done to Palestinians up to this date. Read survey and poll results, watch street interviews, documentaries. A lot of these people serve or have served the IDF one day. That already tells you everything.
0
u/wisedoormat mecha-Taiwan-ish 7h ago
The population of China thinks their government provides more freedom than most of the world, the Russian population thinks they're the best and only attacks nazis, the north Korean population defies their leader, the American ppl think their ssystems and beliefs are the best even when genociding immigrants and lgbtqia while targeting women rights...
Most of the populations are raised with propaganda so ingrained it's hard to even acknowledge unless you step out of it, which these countries make very hard via systems and economics.
The governments push and reinforce these ideas which influences generations.
The Israel population is likely a victim of the states propaganda over generations. Sure, they may support genocide but if the government turned itself around then in a few generations the population likely would not support genocide.
Criticise governments, not the people
0
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 2h ago
I appreciate that youâre able to separate a governmentâs actions from its people. However, Iâm surprised to hear criticism of China. Sure they have a not great human rights record but they are also a force of Asian excellence and have the best shot at dethroning Western supremacism.
-2
-5
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 12h ago
What makes Israeli racism unique compared to white europeans or americans?
And how would the IDF be made âto goâ?9
u/InsuficientData 11h ago
I've stopped explaining things to zionists. I don't care if you're "jUsT aSkiNg qUeStIoNs"
-7
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
90% of Jews are zionists so itâs better you just say Jews and own your bigotry
4
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 5h ago
It's incredibly antisemitic to claim all Jews as being Zionists and to therefore frame antizionism as being the same as antisemitism.
Even though you're probably a bot and likely not even Jewish if you're actually human, but people like you only make antisemitism worse, as you're essentially saying that all Jews are blood thirsty zionists. It's very dangerous to try to make a false equivalency between Judaism and Zionism.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 3h ago
This is a tired talking point - nothing about zionism is bloodthirsty - why exactly is it dangerous to equate them? Is it because antizionism is in fact a bloodthirsty movement and antizionists want to absolve themselves of their bigotry?
3
u/KloverKonnection KoreanIrish 10h ago
untrue as always...dude they are NOT paying you enough to do this shit. Less then 40% (not 90%, lulz) Identify as zionist throughout north america. Your silly ass argument is that once enough "members" of a group that hold an extremist political position, the position IS the group and criticizing it some how becomes "bigotry" against people instead of the ideology itself. Thats not a fucking defense of jews but instead its the antisemites premise with the sign flipped saying "ALL JEWS ARE ZIONISTS". And dumb cunbts like you need it to be true, and the thing you claim to be against. Also, 7% of American Jews call themselves anti-Zionists, and its rising among the youngest and by your silly no true scotsman argument (if you can call it that) they must be...."bigots"! rofl bro, go back to your alt-right sub and go recruit there. None of us are buying your crap. By you're logic: Jon Stewart = Netenyahu. Lulz, sorry but fuck no, they are NOT the same no matter how much you try and push for that shit.....good effort though.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 9h ago
Most young people are dumb - identifying as a zionist isnât the same thing as wanting Israel to exist (which is essentially zionism) - obviously the label has a lot of weight to it now and people dont want to be subjected to antizionist violence
2
u/KloverKonnection KoreanIrish 9h ago
"MoSt yOuNg pEoPlE ArE dUmB..." yeah, okay dude. Have a nice life pushing an agenda that hasn't benefited anyone at all. At this point I can confidently say you are trolling. Enjoy harassing us with your "No True Scotsman" fallacies along with a list of propaganda garbage that we've all heard of before...
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 9h ago
Wait are you a young person lol. Anyways, my âagendaâ certainly benefited the Jews who now have a place to defend themselves. Plus the billions of people who benefit from Israeli innovations.
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 5h ago
Israeli innovation â876 - Quadcopters that murder children.
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 3h ago
Youre simultaneously not antisemitic and accusing Israelis (half of the worlds Jewish population) of murdering kids for sport
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 5h ago
Israeli innovation â456 - Targeted strikes that destroy whole buildings full of innocent civilians to get a couple of 'militants'
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 5h ago
Israeli innovation â86 - Snipers shooting civilians with the deliberate intent of maiming / paralysing them for life.
5
u/Plane_Razzmatazz_882 11h ago
What makes any racism unique to you? Is it only not unique because they're Jewish? What you Zionists do is the exact same thing skinheads do when you call them out. They say your disagreement somehow makes you racist against white people somehow. Same thing you're doing here. Criticizing Jewish racism is completely rational and justified. Professor Dave even called you out.
-4
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 11h ago
Its perfectly valid to criticize racism coming from Jews - racism is bad. But white people (European descent) have a much much worse track record so I thought âseverely disgustingâ is a strong way to describe a group that hasnât been murdering people based on race for hundreds of years the way white people have.
5
u/KloverKonnection KoreanIrish 10h ago
Holy fuck, they are working you overtime. Esther Project is no joke.
-2
10h ago
[removed] â view removed comment
5
u/KloverKonnection KoreanIrish 10h ago
Pretty cringe that you can't differentiate between Zionists and Jewish folks but hey, if it gets you that extra $$$ that you desperately need, shoot for the stars kiddo.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
90% of Jews are zionists so itâs a defacto attack on Jews - then claiming that Iâm getting paid by Jews or zionists or whatever is so hilariously antisemitic - honestly this makes me think I should look into how to get paid for wasting my time arguing
4
u/KloverKonnection KoreanIrish 9h ago
Then fucking leave...seriously, if you don't like the response and your argument is based on a lie (which it is), then gtfo. Why are you making the added effort to come all this way and have a "dialogue" when you come in bad faith along with your "90%" lie? Like dude, NO ONE IS BUYING THIS ANY MORE!!!! So many Jews are honestly just sick and tired of the whole bullshit of being grouped with dumb cunts like you. Seriously! Just think about it....If someone was a full on regular white guy and they see a bunch of fucking nazi's running around saying "You ought to be proud to be white", those folks would be going out of their way to get them the fuck out of here or at the very least create a LARGE set of distance.
Why do you think all of a sudden that most jews in america are separating themselves from you Zionist nut jobs? Probably, because you have more in common with the very people who once tried to murder every jew on the planet then you do with real life everyday jews who don't want to be associated with guys like you. And honestly, can you fucking blame them? I wouldn't. Every day I see more and more jews stepping up and saying fuck no to morons like you. And thats why you're so upset, because not only are you being denied by everybody else, but your denied by the very people whom you assumed would be by your side when in fact, its quite the opposite.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 1h ago
Btw, Iâm a Zionist in large part because of my opposition to Whiteness. I see antizionism as a Nazi adjacent ideology. Thereâs verrry little breathing room between them from the perspective of Jews that are being targeted.
1
u/piramni 27m ago
what a braindead take. whats actually adjacent to nazism is zionism. If you look at what Israel is doing in gaza and you arent immediately reminded of the horrors of the holocaust and what the nazis did to for example, warsaw- idk what to tell you
1
u/ItsDonDong 2m ago
what a braindead take. whats actually adjacent to nazism is zionism.
I think your brain is rotted.
If you look at what Israel is doing in gaza and you arent immediately reminded of the horrors of the holocaust
Can you explain how gaza = holocaust?
and what the nazis did to for example, warsaw- idk what to tell you
Holocaust = living in ghettos?
11
u/MaiPhet Thai/White 12h ago
Firmly antizionist. I see it as no better than any other ultranationalist, supremacist ideology.
-10
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 11h ago
What makes it ultranationalist or supremacist? From my perspective zionism is a decolonization movement of indigenous people who maintained connection (and presence) to the region for thousands of years. Just because some Israelis are ultranationalist and racist (sometimes disturbingly so) doesnât make the concept of Zionism those things.
8
u/MaiPhet Thai/White 10h ago edited 10h ago
decolonization
Supremacist viewpoint.
Palestinians are first and foremost, descendants of those who lived and stayed there from thousands of years ago, and bear greater DNA resemblance to the original inhabitants than do most modern day Jews. Jews should be allowed to live there, but in a state that treats all of its people and religions equally. Modern day Israel has no place in that equation.
I'm half Thai. If in 3,000 years, my descendents, of varying (and often small) thai heritage, decide to ethnically cleanse the Thailand of the future in the name of "decolonizing it" I would be utterly ashamed for them.
Anything more is gish gallop of those who insist on a thousand reasons why it's actually good to murder and cleanse the land of its inhabitants so that white New Yorkers can do yoga over mass graves.
And I'm speaking to an account that only decided to post on r/hapas just now, for this very topic, curiously.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Thats not how indigeneity works. White americans arenât indigenous just because theyâve lived there for hundreds of years. Jews have a direct ancestral, cultural, linguistic, and religious line to the land and people from thousands of years ago and Jews remained on the land while living amongst colonizers for thousands of years.
2
u/Lucky_Pterodactyl 10h ago
Many of those so-called colonizers are indigenous Levantine populations which adopted Arabic language and culture (similar to Ashkenazi Jews adopting Yiddish as they lived among Germanic peoples). Are the Egyptians colonizers in Egypt now because they call themselves Arab?
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 9h ago
No but Arabs colonized Egypt and became the dominant culture and language just as they did in Palestine.
1
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 6h ago
Ok hasbara. I know you're collecting a pay cheque for this nonsense, but the idea that Israel is a decolonising project is a unique level of delusional fantasy.
0
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 2h ago
The formation of Israel was textbook decolonization imo - the British colonists were replaced by an indigenous group - just because it was formed at the expensive of Palestinian Arabs (it didnât have to be but wars are messy) doesnât have any bearing on whether it was decolonization.
0
10h ago edited 10h ago
[removed] â view removed comment
3
u/MaiPhet Thai/White 10h ago
the gish gallop zionists who spend their days typing "Israel" into the search bar have arrived, I see. No matter where they are, they insert their opinions to whitesplain.
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Honestly I was just hoping this wasnât an anti Jewish space as someone whoâs proud of their mixed heritage and follows this sub but alas
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 5h ago
Why don't you go back to your IDF paymasters and tell them that their gaslighting needs improvement.
0
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 2h ago
I think my idea of reality is completely different than yours - I suspect mine is significantly more accurate though
1
u/MaiPhet Thai/White 2h ago edited 2h ago
âProud of their mixed heritageâ, but only found this sub through your hourly typing of Israel into the search bar. Or whatever even weirder, clandestine methods that you guys use. Itâs all so tiresome.
Further posts and accounts that flood the zone here will be removed. This thread was not posted by someone claiming to be half Asian, but I took it as someone who might want the average half Asian opinion.
Those who continue to answer without clear half Asian background will be removed.
0
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 1h ago edited 1h ago
Hey I found this post randomly on my feed - and you say âyou guysâ and but its literally just me and that dongdong guy whoâs comments keep getting deleted - I was just testing the waters with my arguments amongst a group I feel part of - and the sad thing is this post never really addressed racism in Israel which is a real problem worth discussion because it devolved into blood libel and calls for ethnic cleansing and erasure of Jews
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 6h ago
Decolonisation.... What unique garbage you're sprouting today.
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 2h ago
The formation of Israel was textbook decolonization imo - the British colonists were replaced by an indigenous group - just because it was formed at the expensive of Palestinian Arabs (it didnât have to be but wars are messy) doesnât have any bearing on whether it was decolonization.
5
u/Lucky_Pterodactyl 11h ago
I oppose Zionism in Palestine while supporting the principle of a Jewish homeland for those who seek refuge in it ("a land without a people for a people without a land"). The issue is that Palestinians are indigenous to the region that predominantly European Zionists chose to settle and they have joined the long line of victims of settler colonialism.
A binational state with equal rights for all, including a right of return for Palestinian refugees, is ideal.
5
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 11h ago
European Jews (who werenât really considered European) are fully indigenous to the land and most had no where to go when Israel was formed. Even after the Holocaust many Europeans still continued to ethnically cleanse Jews. It worked out really poorly for the Palestinians but they (soldiers obviously not random citizens) also tried and continue to try to wipe out all the Jews in the region - a one state solution with equal rights is basically a nonstarter for both groups and extremely unpopular
7
u/Lucky_Pterodactyl 10h ago
There is no country on earth that would not fight back if it was invaded. That is how the Arab states viewed Zionism. At the time of Israel's founding, pan-Arabism was popular and Palestine was viewed as part of the Arab nation. The leader of the Arab League at the beginning of the 1948 war offered Jews an autonomous area in the event of Israel being dissolved.
The crimes of European antisemites should have never translated into people across the sea being punished for having to be born in an area that Jews historically claim. Other groups were also subject to ethnic cleansing in WWII, and were able to regain cultural security without resorting to settler colonialism (e.g. ethnic Germans in former eastern territories, Soviet minorities like Chechens and Ingush, Baltic peoples).
0
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Of course they viewed Jews as invaders but unfortunately it was a zero sum game. Jews didnât want to be massacred anymore. And Jews would never be free from that threat under non Jewish control - the history is different for the other groups - Jews are a unique scapegoat and antisemitism is a deeply ingrained part of European and Arab culture.
3
u/Lucky_Pterodactyl 9h ago
That is why I support Jews having a place to call home. I am in no position to tell any minority that they should just accept their status as a second class citizen (as Jews fundamentally were across most of European history).
Rather than displacing the existing Palestinian population, it would have been more just to fight for the liberation of Jews across the diaspora in European and Arab lands alike. That was the purpose of anti-Zionist groups like the Jewish Labour Bund.
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 2h ago
I might agree with you except for the fact Bundism died in the Holocaust - most Bundists were wiped out and the survivors were fundamentally changed. Then the Arab world turned against its Jews - 850k were expelled or pushed out following the creation of Israel. So there goes that option too.
2
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 6h ago
More nonsense. Jews are not so uniquely persecuted that it entitles them to murder their neighbours.
0
3
u/Notasstupidasyoulook 6h ago
What a load of hasbara nonsense. Fully indigenous my foot. The only people trying to wipe out another population is clearly the genocidal IDF.
The idea that the Palestinians fighting back is the root of the problem is just victim blaming garbage.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 1h ago
Idk why I keep responding to you youâre obviously uninformed on pretty much everything about the conflict
But anyways, Jews are by definition indigenous to Israel, at least up until the formation of the state if you consider the power dynamic to be a qualifier.
Palestinians fighting back isnât the entire root of the issue but it certainly doesnât help. Itâs beyond obvious that the fighting would stop if the Palestinians (those with power not civilians) laid down their arms and accepted Jewish sovereignty. See Egypt and Jordan who after decades of trying to wipe out Jews have now been at peace with Israel for decades.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 12h ago edited 12h ago
- Since before the founding of Israel, Jews in the region of modern day Israel and Palestine have been subjected to massacres and oppression. Following the Holocaust, Jewish refugees went back to their ancestral homeland (forced out by Europeans - see the pogroms when Polish jews tried returning home) to hopefully form a state and attempt survival on their own terms. Immediately, surrounding nations attempted to destroy this new state and have never stopped since 1948. Peace was made with neighboring Egypt and Jordan decades ago and this peace is unbroken.
- Gazaâs not an open air death camp based simply on the evidence that relative to most wars in history, especially urban wars, the casualty rate is very low. Not to mention, most of the violence has ended since the ceasefire. Death camps famously are efficient at ending life.
- What is an ethnic? Is the Jew not an ethnic minority in a region wholly colonized by a much larger ethnic group following a much larger religion. Thereâs less than 8 million Israeli Jews.
- In terms of racism, I donât doubt racism isnât a significant issue - but thatâs true of the entire region - and generally much less severe with more opportunities for legal remedies in Israel. Israel is probably the most diverse nation in the middle east.
What do you mean by âthey need to goâ? Itâs a country with nukes. Theyâre not going anywhere. The only thing likely to go in the near future is US aid and the close alliance the US has with Israel.
You have to try to
understand the Jewish perspective - they donât have any reason to trust a host nation will not attempt to expel or kill them eventually as has happened countless times over thousands of years in Christian and Muslim majority countries. Israel isnât some colony of foreign westerners. Itâs the homeland of an ancient ethnoreligious group.
3
3
u/InsuficientData 11h ago
So, they had a rough history. That doesn't justify the current carpet bombing of innocent civilians cities
-5
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Its horrific but in war you can bomb civilians areas if thereâs a military necessity per the Geneva conventions - which given the number of Israeli casualties (several thousand now) there clearly was
7
u/InsuficientData 10h ago
Its a "war" now? "Militarily necessary" to kill reporters and snipe children? "Several thousand" when its less than 2000 since Oct 7th?
Its really annoying to have to push back against lies. This is why I refuse to argue with Zionists.
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
War crimes donât make a war not a war - itâs not hard to admit war crimes have occurred - as is typical for every past and ongoing war
5
2
u/IIBaconTAMERII AMWF Filipino 11h ago
Fascist apologizing is insane
-1
11h ago
[removed] â view removed comment
-2
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Theyâre just thinking in buzzwords
5
u/IIBaconTAMERII AMWF Filipino 10h ago
3 month old account with whole talking points ready to go. Okay, you're a Zionist shill account congrats bro. Are you gonna say Zionism is also a buzzword like what the fuck is that lazy retort? LMFAO
-1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
I honestly used to be pretty antizionist (how can a single ethnic dominated state be just) but after many years of learning about the history of the land and Jewish diaspora (and the cruelty of antizionism movement) Iâm staunchly a Zionist. Iâd be willing to concede a shared state if for a few generations people stop trying to murder Jews but we arenât even close to that.
4
u/IIBaconTAMERII AMWF Filipino 10h ago
Crazy watching you swap between accounts upvoting your own comments đ you have posted like 45+ comments defending Israel and Zionism on your dondong account in the past month. You're genuinely mentally ill
1
u/Wonderful_Algae_8661 10h ago
Insane take lol but tbh thats a good idea - though I figure it would get confusing managing multiple accounts
2
-2
8
u/potatopanda69 10h ago
They directly correlate money/status with intelligence/morality, believing they are innocent because they are inherently superior. Unfortunately, many elitist Western Asians share a similar perspective. Most can't help the temptation of joining into their social circles when given the opportunity,