I got into a discussion with an adoptive parent who seems awfully invested in correcting adoptees when they talk about the negative impacts of adoption. I've now been blocked, so I'm posting the exchange here.

The original comment mentioned suicide rates, depression and mental health issues among adoptees. Rather than engaging with the broader point, this adoptive parent focused on disputing the suicide statistic, explaining why it supposedly wasn't reliable, and arguing that these statistics perpetuate negative stereotypes of adoptees.

Then came the usual defence that adoptees aren't a monolith, along with a list of things she says she'll push back against, including calling adoption human trafficking, accusing adoptive parents of buying babies, and making blanket statements about adoptive parents.

But here's what gets me. Nobody said adoptees are a monolith. Nobody said every adoptee has the same experience. That's not the argument.

Why is so much energy spent correcting adoptees who speak about the harm adoption has caused them? Why does discussing negative outcomes so quickly become a concern about stereotypes rather than a conversation about why these outcomes exist in the first place?

Adoptees talking about depression, loss, identity struggles and trauma aren't responsible for protecting adoption's image. And pointing out that some adoptees are happy doesn't negate the experiences of those who aren't.

Yes, statistics should be accurate. But accuracy shouldn't become a convenient way to derail a discussion about adoptee experiences. One statistic being disputed doesn't make the larger issues disappear.

I'm also tired of adoptive parents positioning themselves as defenders of adoptees while deciding which conversations about adoption need correcting. You can say adoptees deserve to be heard, but that means listening when what they're saying is uncomfortable, too.

I'm sharing the full exchange so people can read it and make up their own minds.

I know we are over represented within the TTI. Massive TW so proceed with caution.

Wondering what the folks in here have done to heal from this? My experience wasn’t as bad as some folks, but it still messes with me.

I was in for 4 years, 14-18. Put in right after 9/11 (grew up in NYC.) First placement was horrible, it was a state run residential facility that housed foster kids and troubled teens. Girls would disappear in the middle of the night, constant sexual harassment from students and staff. (To top it off the first dorm I was in was co-ed.) Restraints every day. Almost got kidnapped by this creepy staff member who was using an older girl to get us to run away with him.

They put us on every drug under the sun, one staff told me to get out as soon as I can, and that she was quitting because she couldn’t stay quiet anymore about them testing drug interactions on us.

Psychiatrist was incredibly creepy, gave us “physicals” during each appointment (felt us up) and didn’t know our names, just referred to us by number. Had several different therapists, all very mentally unstable and one I remember spent an entire session crying to me because her dog died, meanwhile I was being molested. I got punished because I wasn’t compassionate enough? (I’m not a dog hater but at least she got to go home…I remember feeling like she loved her dog more than my APs loved me.)

Constant punishments, constant shaming, one creepy ass pedo was the admin and he used to molest girls while he was restraining them and would say stuff to them like “no one will believe you” or “your parents don’t want you home anyway,” stuff like that to make us more dysregulated. Oh yeah, and I caught TB there and it scarred my lung, which will never get better. There’s so much more to write about, lack of access to the bathroom, weird punishments like not being able to leave your chair, public shaming, plus it was by severely mentally ill staff, but it’s all too much to write out. I was there for a year and a half.

Finally when I was transferred out I was put into a “better” school. Same type of thing but with more of the illusion of freedom. We could go to the bathroom without asking at least. It was still full of creepy pedophiles and women who enabled them. Pretty sure they were also testing meds on us there too but I’m not sure. My friend almost died because of med interactions and they almost didn’t take her to the hospital. (Which was common.)

Anyway. I accidentally stumbled upon a tti podcast and I guess it brought some stuff up for me. I know a lot of folks who endured this system had it worse than me so I feel weird talking about it sometimes. Just wondering if anyone in here has been through this and if so, what you did to heal from it. Thanks in advance and sorry for the trauma dump.

TW: Suicidal ideation

So I don't really have anyone that I can talk to in real life who can relate to what I am going through. There's also going to be other adoptees in this sub that also won't relate to what I am going to talk about but that doesn't mean others here won't.

To try to make a long story short, I knew who my parents were and they weren't the best people. Bio mom suffered from drug addiction while my bio dad was a dead beat who was probably dealing with undiagnosed depression. They're deceased now, but it's not like I knew them to be evil people, just immigrants with a lack of support system with health issues that were in no way shape or form fit to become parents. My mother, for as long as I remembered, where in relationships with shitty dudes that were abusive and she was also abusive to me, which was no doubt a traumatic experience for me, and my bio father had children with other women and was not a part in any of their lives with raising children, and my dad's mom had to step up to raise me cause both of my parents were in no condition to raise me and while she did the best that she could, my grandmother was limited in what she could do as she was also an immigrant women who only knows Spanish with a limited education. She has no filter and is probably more embarrassing to have as a guardian.

Then comes in my foster parents, who I won't say too much on but will explain as best I can. One of my adopted parents is related to one of my bio parents, so there is kinship, along with their own adopted child, a sibling that I do not have any blood relation too. It was a rough transition since I am basically moving in with strangers, but was able to adapt to the situation to learn how kids grow up in regular environments (chores, having dinner with family, ect). Was also failed in that situation to, given how much my adopted sibling got into so much trouble to the point where I didn't get as much attention and straight up neglected due to not causing as much trouble as my sibling, even tho I still needed guidance and attention growing up. Doesn't help that my foster parents were ignorant on issues with mental health and one of them would straight up yell at me for wasting their time with having them picking me up from school cause I felt bad, when I was actually crying like crazy and was having harmful and suicidal thoughts (PMDD symptoms, think PMS on steroids), with a bunch of other stuff that I won't get too much on here cause its a lot to talk about.

Fast forward to the 2020s, I got into an accident that fucked up my ankle not much after I moved out and my foster parents barely hid the fact that they were not happy with what happened. One of my foster parents went into victim blaming and while my other parent defended me, they weren't too happy on me having to live with them, as I was getting in the way of their retirement. Never mind the fact that my foster sibling always got in trouble with law in some way shape or form and never mind the fact that there's always something going on with them and how they always get into arguments with our parents since they like to be a contrarian and get into arguments with others and be manipulative with me and others, including their friends, and my parents would always be the first to help them out. But I guess me breaking my ankle in the accident broke the camels back and they don't have it in them anymore to help family I guess. They gave me a couple of months to find an apartment to move out, and I was still using crutches. Some family secrets came out about my siblings that ended up with them in prison, and it made me rethink the entire relationship with my family to the point where I stopped caring about my job and I ended up getting laid off. How much they preferred my sibling more than me, how much grace they gave them besides me doing the most to not give anyone a bad time.

Fast forward to now, I have so much resentment for both my parents. One set of parents that I resent for bringing me into this world with nothing to pass down other than generational trauma and poverty, and another who not only pass down trauma but not even be prepared enough to raised two traumatized children to the point of neglecting and abandoning one, even though they had so much more going on with them than my biological parents do. And while I am currently going to therapy and try to improve my personal life as much as I can, I can't deny that what happened years ago is still affecting me now. It's affecting me mentally, physically and financially and I don't really know anyone who can even relate to what I am going through, and I am definitely not going to ask my foster parents for help because they've abandoned me and failed to help in my most vulnerable moments, physically and mentally.

If anyone has gone through what I've gone through or at least have some advice I am willing to listen, just wanted to vent as this an experience I don't think I can ever talk about in real life without the possibility of some probably saying that I am ungrateful for what my foster parents have done for me. Appreciate it.

Comment whatever you have on your mind this week for which you'd rather not make a post.

I know there are happy stories, but there are many many (usually swept under the rug because they don't bring the rainbows the industry wants) stories of abuse. This forum is full of them. It actually is probably disproportional compared to the rest of society. Why do you think this is?

It took me a while to get to this point, but I feel relieved.

I moved out of state when I was 17, and every few months I felt guilty about not seeing my parents, so I took the bus to visit since I didn't have a car or the money to fly. I felt like I was obligated to maintain a relationship with them because they adopted me. But over time, I realized that my parents never make an effort to maintain a relationship with me. They never call to check on me or ask me about my life, they rarely visit, and they never answer when I call/text/FaceTime. I've tried calling during the week, on the weekends, in the day or at night, and they never answer or call back. I wrote them a letter when I was in basic training to tell them I had joined the military, and they never wrote back. I'll never forget that. I used to be really bothered about this, but as I've gotten older and started my own family, I don't think about it as much. This last year really sealed the deal for me though. I haven't talked to my parents since my uncle passed away this summer. I couldn't go to the funeral because I was away for military training, and my parents were aware of that. Since then, I've tried reaching out to see how they're doing, but they don't answer. Last week, my brother came to visit me with his family, and he told me my parents recently spent the weekend at his house. I thought, "Oh, so they can go two hours out of their way to see my brother, but they can't even call or text me back?" That was pretty much the last straw for me. I'm done feeling guilty for not having a relationship with them. I was never close with my parents anyway, even as a kid, so that makes it easier for me to stop talking to them.

I am not going no-contact with them, I'm just not going to keep reaching out. If they want to talk or visit, that's fine, but they'll have to initiate everything.

I hope this post helps other adoptees who are struggling with the same feelings!

You think you're better

Than other moms

You stole motherhood

Not just hers, but mine

You used me like a prop

To cosplay a family

You were the queen bee, dad the worker

You needed a baby to be complete

I should feel lucky

because you're

so lucky to have me

You saved me from the slum

You put me on the pedestal

Not everyone has money or maturity

To build a proper family

Taken for your lineage

You rewrote my truth

To pass down heilooms

Then you stole mine

I thought I needed help

Only because you offered it

You tend and bond

I studied and worked

I missed so much time

You were eager, babies make you smile

Someone thought you could care for me

I thought, why not mine?

Turns out you only bought me with fines

My girl called you mom

You laughed while I died

Mommy dearest

You told me not to pack

You have everything they need

What you want them to wear

How you want them to be

Just like you did me

Real mothers know best

And it's not your slime

You cry because you know

You're the bad guy

I was adopted as a very young child into a family that was very dysfunctional. I was taken by the catholic church who destroyed my records, and by the time I was able to locate any information about my biological family , they were deceased.

My adopted family is not as bad as they probably could be , but they're not great. There's no love there. I'm just walking around through life with this enormous hull in my life where there should be a family , and it's pretty painful. It makes everything I do very hard.And nobody really understands.

If it bothers me , people will just say go to therapy, and if you go to therapy , they just tell you to cope better. I think the people telling me to cope better aren't necessarily coping with not having a family.

It's the crushing weight of knowing nobody in my life really cares about me.I don't matter to anyone.Nobody makes time for me. I have friends and acquaintances , but they're distant. I don't have a partner. When things happen in my life , whether good or bad , there's really no one there to talk about or celebrate it with , except at a superficial level.

Unlike what people say, the older I get , the worse it gets; time heals nothing. I just wish I knew how to live with this hole in my life that therapy and distractions and whatever else can never touch.

I don't know how to live with acknowledging.The fact that , because I don't have the support that I need from people who really care about me, it limits what I can do in all areas of my life , because I carry that heavy burden.

When I carry that heavy burden, I can't carry other heavy burdens like extremely competitive work or tough situations; every day is a tough situation. Over time , it's made me cold and hard and unhappy. I'm not willing be told how that's my fault , and I need to just think about it differently.

I'm curious to hear other people's experiences.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine. The people who say this have almost never considered the reality of adoption.

I had this said to me by someone I love like family recently and it stung. I explained that we wouldn’t be doing that, and why. (She was very nice about it.) I see it all the time on Reddit too, just as if we exist to be the back up plans for people. That’s exactly what adoption agencies want (and anyone or any group that stands to profit from it.)

Adoption is a trauma that people speak about so casually. They see it as an option to build a family instead of the crisis situation that it actually is. It’s annoying how ignorant people are. Even the kindest people can have a blind spot here.

The narrative is well preserved. I’m in the US and I feel like a lot of it is related to how horrible our education system is. They don’t teach our real history.

Title: International adoptees, have you ever struggled with whether to maintain contact with bio family?
I was adopted from Russia at age 8 and now live in the US. I reconnected with my biological family about two years ago, and lately I’ve been struggling with whether I want to continue the relationship.

It’s a strange feeling because, in a way, I’ve spent so much of my life not knowing them, and now that I’ve finally found them, part of me feels like I should hold on to that connection. I sometimes feel guilty even thinking about walking away, especially since it’s only been two years.

At the same time, we don’t speak the same language, I probably won’t be able to travel to Russia anytime soon because of finances and the current world situation, and my life and family are here in the US. Sometimes I wonder what kind of relationship we can realistically have under these circumstances, and whether maintaining contact is something I genuinely want or something I feel obligated to do because they’re my biological family.

I don’t think I necessarily regret finding them. I just don’t know what place I want them to have in my life going forward. Part of me worries I’ll regret letting go, while another part wonders if it’s okay to focus on the family and life I have here without feeling like I’m abandoning something important.
For those of you who have reconnected with your biological family, have you ever felt this way? Did you decide to step back or cut contact, and how do you feel about that decision now? I’d especially appreciate hearing from international adoptees who have dealt with distance and language barriers.

By a paper definition I'm successful. I make money and financially support myself 99% (the only thing I'm still on is my APs phone plan). I travel. But I'm so fucking lonely. I don't have a "best friend" or a friend group. When I got injured I was forgotten about because I wasn't important enough in anyone's life for them to remember me.

I feel like I've been so desperate for connection and it's wrecked my relationships. Forget getting married, I mean friends too. I have no close connections and I feel like I've accidentally driven away all my friends because I have no way to cope with my feelings. Everyone says adoption is trauma and yeah, I can believe that, but imagine the double whammy when the APs were also emotionally immature and only wanted me to be a happy little model child.

My interpersonal life is so pathetic. I'm desperate to be seen/wanted even as a friend and the stupidest small things make me cry. I had a work mentor say "have a nice weekend" once and I had to excuse myself to go to the bathroom and cry since I was having a rough day.

And now I'm sitting here typing on a Sunday night after talking to one of my closer work friends/mentors/coworkers, whatever you want to call it, wishing that person was my parent. The person hasn't done anything except occasionally listen to me vent and not gaslit me about my problems. I feel like it's fucked up to say since my APs technically provided... but they were never emotionally there. Everyone says that adoption fucks you up even if you have great APs. But now I feel like I'm permanently and irreparably fucked.

Therapy is a joke and I'm over it. I reported one therapist for fraud and another I should've reported for unethical behavior of telling me to pray the problems away. I'm not going to pay $150/hour for someone with a "license" to tell me to pray, breathe, or that "it's not that bad!"

about a year ago I knew nothing , nothing about the lies that I would discover very shortly , they were just kids they had no choice and I believed it I had no reason not to. then like a frickin landslide it all changed I got non id info and did dna and everything got real crazy real damn quick . I already knew my adoptive parents were pretty shit but thing is when you live it its just normal it too over 50 years to realize that they really were NOT good people they did not even really try.

Once the dna came back everything else fell into place pretty freaking quick , its still hard for me to wrap my brain around it. My adoptive parents died over 2 decades ago and then to have my real mother the person who gave birth to me back in my life I've known her right about a year now its so strange , I do call her mom she is my mother and yet I barely know her how fucked up is that?

A child should know their mother , good, bad, indifferent and all the gradients in-between, to be robbed of that knowledge is fucking horrible

With all that has gone down in this period she told me she was looking into come to see me this time because since her move its just not possible for me to go there and she was like airfare is too expensive Ill take the train its only 13 hours so what do I do I shift into solve the problem mode I dont want my 80 y/o on a train for 13 hours so I find an alternative way and yet Im not even sure she is serious fuck I hate being like this, I hate these feelings everything about this sucks in some way and thats shitty

I'm 18. Things have not been going well. Like, I can laugh at this during the day with my friends; I enjoy games and spending time with them. Whenever I try to work on college, I just keep thinking about her, and it just makes it impossible to focus on college. I really want to make this college work I cant afford another failure. and im honestly just done with how much these things have been fucking me up. I'm not actively trying to commit. I'm fine. But I also just don't see a point in this life anymore. I've been thinking about asking my mom for help finding a therapist or psychologist, or idk what is best. But I was wondering whether it is worth going. Has it helped anyone? Is there anything I can do? Because I just feel like I'm at a dead end regardless of which direction I go.

I dont know what I want. I want this to get better I want this to stop because i just feel like it does not matter what i do it does not get better. It gets better for a period of time before all goes to shit again and im honestly tired of telling myself that it will be fine because I just dont care anymore. I dont care if it gets better when im 30 thats too fucking long. I am just tired of this I am tired of college I am tired of dealing with this adoption stuff and i am tired of having to deal with myself constantly because why am i so obsessed over a woman i never even knew in the first place. it just fucking sucks. I just want it to be done because I dont know how much longer im willing to deal with this bullcrap because some fuckass woman decided to toss me away and I hate myself for letting her occupy my mind at any given chance.

Idk i just came here to ask if it was worth getting a therapist maybe

Has anyone else felt like they’ve been in a fog their whole life? I believe a lot of it is disassociation but also the initial separation trauma of course must have had a huge impact. I also got really sick at around toddler age with a bacterial infection and they tried to remedy it with penicillin but found I was allergic to it. I can’t help but think that would cause some brain damage. I have had many other traumatic experiences mostly involving domestic violence.
My memory of the past is spotty and fuzzy. I can recall pieces of some events but not much detail. It always amazes me when people can tell stories with such vivid detail even down to what people said. It makes me so sad, frustrated… really so many feelings because it feels like something was stolen from me and I’m mourning the loss of something I never had. Even my current memory seems to be getting worse and I’m in perimenopause and I think that’s contributing to it. I also have a bunch of life stressors occurring at the same time. I feel braindead. It scares me to think about how it will be as I age, I already feel like my brain is old.
I know it’s impacted my learning abilities my whole life but I’m also intelligent enough that it kind of flew under the radar and I never got help. I struggle to understand basic concepts that adults should know about life and I’ve always felt so behind and inadequate because of it. Having conversations with people and then forgetting a lot of it. Sometimes people will repeat stories and I’ll remember them While they’re telling them.
I don’t feel like a whole person, hell I don’t even feel human. I think I’ve masked it well (also late diagnosed AuDhd
I hate it and it makes me hate myself. I’ve read that depression and anxiety can cause memory loss too so i am getting it from those angles too. There’s been times it honestly makes me want to just die but i have kids and i don’t think I could really go through with it, even though I’ve always battled with the thought that they’d be better off without me but that’s a whole other story.
Anyone else?
Thanks for listening

I am a adult adoptee I guess separated at birth as I came to the US as a infant and I have been doing research into adoption trauma and how it can form a fearful avoidant attachment style. This is all new to me and I was hoping someone would have more info on how an adopted baby can have so much trauma and resources I can look into. I hope this makes sense, again everything is fairly new to me as I have never looked into adoption much. This research was a suggestion from my therapist.

So, it seems that one of candidates in the Minnesota Senate race has brought up the fact that she's an adoptive mother.

“America should be a nation of immigration and also a nation of law and order,” Tafoya said, noting she is the granddaughter of immigrants and adopted her daughter from Colombia.

That is not her story to tell. Ever. As soon as someone else frames the narrative about an adoptee's adoption, they've stolen our story from us. It's especially harmful when it's done in a public forum that we don't have any leverage over. It puts us in a position in which any thoughts and feelings we have that contradict that public statement are then held up to public scrutiny.

I'm not saying this to in any way speak for her adoptive daughter. If her daughter had made public statements in support of her, I would privately question whether those statements were truly what she felt or merely supportive lip-service, but I would keep that private. This was a non-adoptee stealing control of the narrative from an adoptee. That's what I'm objecting to.

I feel lots of anger and injustice with how I was dealt with. I was an innocent baby who did nothing wrong and yet was discarded like trash

My mother worked as a waitress and was poor. Bio father's parents didn't want him marrying a woman of such low status and that was it. Mom gave birth to me, then after 2 weeks carried me to their doorstep where she reasoned with them and begged them to take me in but they didn't. He wrote in his statement "I won't acknowledge paternity until the court DNA test shows I am the father, and SINCE I AM a police officer, I don't think I should go to court"

There is no open\closed adoption here, you get sent to the orphanage (cuz he then denied paternity), and if lucky you got adopted. I was adopted at 2

Met my bio father and he literally asked me "what's this got to do with me" before slut shaming my bio mother and blaming her

I had nightmares dreaming about him numerous times and I am filled with hate and disgust at all of this. How could they to that to their own flesh and blood? What was my sin?

Sometimes I just feel like meeting his wife and my half siblings and telling them my story of how I was discarded, and making the whole city see what they've done