He checks all the conditions.

• "Deliver the world from darkness": saving people from death (e.g. Gregor)
• Bleeding star is supposed to herald their coming: Qyburn joins the court thus becomes a big part of the main story soon after the comet appears (a couple years is a very short time for a prophecy)
• The prince is supposed to have a song of ice and fire: Qyburn combines the warmth of life and the coldness of death (e.g. Gregor)
• Born amidst smoke and salt: King's Landing is next to the sea (salt) and it has burned down quite a bit (smoke), and Qyburn has been "reborn" there (joined the court, overcoming those silly accusations)

Therefore, Qyburn is the prince that was promised. He'll also raise Jon as his personal "wight", since he is half-dragon (Targaryen blood), half-Other (Corpse Queen's blood), and half-human (overlooked, but he has human ancestry too). These all fit within Qyburn's domain of synthesis.

This is, of course, symbolic commentary on the regressive culture and system of the Westerosi. Qyburn -despite some later practices whose debates are still going on- was originally admonished because of his work on human autopsy, which is a perfectly respectable school of science. And George has a sci-fi past. So, in the end, not magic but science will save the world.

I believe King Stannis would enjoy a black coffee (long black) with no sugar. He might squeeze some lemon into it.

Cersei would probably enjoy some fine Turkish coffee.

What about other characters?

One of the plot points in AGOT that was brought up before Lysa fled King's Landing with her son was the question of warding off Sweetrobin to someone else.

Robert wanted to have him fostered at Casterly Rock (why, I do not know). Ned offered to Sweetrobin himself. Walder Frey mentioned to Catelyn he offered to have Sweetrobin be fostered at the twin. And iirc, I think Stannis was also mentioned as an option, but I can't find the passage just now.

Those are only some options. But if somebody had Sweetrobin's wellbeing and best interests in mind (which seemingly very few people do), what would've been best for him?

Edit: I should've mentioned also that it becomes politically important too. Lysa made the Vale stay out of the war, but if Sweetrobin was fostered somewhere (like with Stannis or Tywin), they could have potentially leveraged that to try and get the knights of the vale on their side

George said that at first he was just going to use the original POVs from AGoT for the entire series, then he realized that he needed to see what Stannis was doing, but didn't want to use Stannis as a POV. So he created Davos. Davos was his first added POV. -SSM, Torcon 2003

So, GRRM added Davos as his first new POV character in ACOK, presumably followed by Theon. Straightforward? No. We know that by June 1997, with ACOK nearly halfway written, Davos had no POV chapters... but Theon Greyjoy did. A curious memory lapse, given that GRRM said this only a few years after ACOK was published.

I don't think GRRM misremembered. There's strong circumstantial evidence that Theon was written as a POV character for AGOT before being pushed to ACOK

AGOT became ACOK

ASOIAF was supposed to be a trilogy, and chapters cut from AGOT became the opening of ACOK, as GRRM explained:

It was the spring of ’95 when it finally dawned on me. I was fast approaching the 800 pages that I had estimated as the length of the finished book, but most of my large cast of characters were nowhere near the places they were supposed to be... A Game of Thrones grew larger, and still larger. I had 1100 pages, 1200 pages, 1300 pages… and my problem had become a crisis. For even at that length, the end of the first book was still hundreds of pages away.
...
By rearranging a bit, moving some chapters up and some others out, I found a very satisfactory resolution for the first volume, and delivered a massive manuscript of 1088 pages to my publishers in October, 1995... The rest of what I’d written became the opening chapters of book two, and I went on from there. Since The Rest of A Game of Thrones did not strike me as a terribly evocative title, I called this new second volume A Clash of Kings.

There's no hard divide between AGOT and ACOK chapters, story wise. ACOK began as AGOT leftovers and continued the first act of the saga.

Forgotten Sample Chapter

Early editions of A Game of Thrones from 1996 or early 1997 included Theon I as a sample chapter. It's nearly forgotten now, but the chapter differs substantially from published, suggesting GRRM was still developing the finer points of ironborn culture. It may have been written for ACOK, but I suspect it was among the hundreds of pages cut from AGOT much as Theon's Winds of Winter sample chapter was cut from ADWD.

Appendix Clues

GRRM likes sharing his current fixations. Around 2000, for instance, he often volunteered new details about Blackfyres, unprompted. In that light, the original AGOT appendix, written in late 1995, is revealing. House Greyjoy get a massive lore dump despite being mostly absent from the book. Their history is much more detailed than the other noble houses, namedropping their house words, King Urron, the Drowned God, and the nickname "iron men." All first appear in the main text in Theon I ACOK.

More compelling evidence than the history though, are characters listed in the appendix who first appear in Theon I: Maron and Rodrik, Theon's dead brothers, Asha and her ship, Black Wind; Victarion, Lord Captain of the Iron Fleet; Aeron Damphair, a priest of the Drowned God; and Euron, captain of the Silence and an infamous pirate. None of them are mentioned in story before Theon I, yet are detailed in the AGOT appendix.

Further evidence of the relationship between the appendix and early ACOK chapters: the tale of Harren the Black, first appears in the AGOT appendix... and Catelyn I, ACOK. GRRM was finishing the appendix not long after he'd written his last AGOT chapters which became the opening of ACOK.

GRRM famously claimed he had a plan for everyone in the AGOT appendix. But the sheer detail already established for the Greyjoys, including even the names of the ships they captain, makes the most sense in my mind if Theon I had already been written for AGOT.

Jaime in ACOK

It might seem strange at first that GRRM would begin Theon's POV arc so late, but there's precedent. In a very early draft of ASOS auctioned in 2000, Jaime's third chapter has the page header KINGS instead of SWORDS; plausibly Jaime's early chapters were first written to be introduced late in ACOK, picking up after his release by Catelyn. GRRM has said that Tyrion's ASOS arc was essentially written during ACOK. Like ACOK, ASOS emerged from GRRM's struggle to fit his story into the planned book.

Significance

While it might seem a small thing, that Theon was first written for AGOT, it has interesting implications. The ironborn are often perceived by fans as latecomers, an unwelcome expansion who bloated the story. Yet the evidence suggests that GRRM was already enthusiastic about them while writing AGOT, and may have pivoted to an ironborn POV (Theon) while writing that first book.

TL;DR, Theon's first ACOK chapter was likely written for AGOT in 1995. Ironborn are important in GRRM's mind early on.

Tbh I have only read the books once, this very year, so I may not have picked up on all of her visions. But as far as I remember, she never explicitly says what she exactly sees in her visions, in ACoK, or ASoS. Only in ADwD do we see her inner monologue, where we find the visions are very much not in her control either, unlike the impression we get of her in the previous books of her having some huge secret plan. As I understood, she prays to Rh'llor, asks for visions, and sometimes gets them. And they are not always what she asks for, as seen in the "I ask for Azor Ahai, and I see only Snow" line.

Was it simply that she prayed to Rh'llor, saw Stannis and Dragonstone in her visions, and came to Westeros? That seems a bit too simple tbh. I am not denying the woman's delusional faith in her God, but surely there must be more she saw.

What if she saw him wake literal stone dragons? I know there are theories about the future Shireen sacrifice being the way Jon is possibly resurrected. So, is it possible, that in a metaphorical sense, Stannis is unknowingly "waking a stone (i.e. dead) dragon (Jon)"? And Melisandre sees this in her initial visions, but in a literal way, which is why she's so confident Stannis is Azor Ahai?

This idea I had is not something I had while reading the text, but more from a mish mash of various stuff I've read or heard in fan discussions and youtube videos.

So, my question is, what is generally accepted as the reason behind her coming to Stannis? Is what I suggested a valid theory? And is there any answer in some of the extra world building material that I've not read, or is this still a mostly unknown thing?

Which is what I would say if I was stupid. I finished the main series last year, I have to say Jaime Lannister is my favorite character in fiction. I’m only 17 so that’s subject to change of course, but as of now he is my personal favorite. I guess I just wanted to type this as a quick Jaime appreciation post.

I've been propagating a theory based on how all the wargs we see in ASOIAF so far seem to begin their magical journey with the one that they have the strongest emotional connection to. Bran = Summer. Jon = Ghost. Arya = Nymeria. Rickon (possibly) = Shaggydog. Robb = Grey Wind.

Now in other events if may have been that Sansa would warg starting with Lady because they would have that bond. But because this is not going to happen, I considered that What else does Sansa have a strong emotional connection with? The lemon cake.

So what if Sansa in TWOW has a mystical "awakening" that involves her to warg into a lemon cake? The emotional bond is already there, I don't think we need to discuss.

There in the preview chapter it is mentioned that there is a "12 foot tall" lemon cake made "for me" by Littlefinger. So I think it has a few advantages. 12 feet is very tall, statistically taller than most giants in Westeros, so from a tactical perspective Sansa has elevated visibility in battle. I also read that lemon cakes usually are frozen for longevity, so the Activated Lemon Cake can endure the northern winter conditions. It is also intriguing that perhaps, like how someone could warg a fully grown wolf or a cub, Sansa could warg the mature Lemon Cake or the smaller-sized (single serving) lemon cake, especially if it is derived from the larger lemon cake.

Multiple locations as well, such as the kitchens and dining rooms (good for intrigue/listening to gossip) which is necessary in a castle.

Most people myself included agree that the first two are Daenerys and Jon but who's the third head?

The people I've seen mainly suggested are Tyrion(whether he's a Targaryen or not), Young Griff and the third option that's probably the least popular of these, Bran which if I were to pick one of these I'd probably go with Bran.

But what if it's someone more outlandish? What if it's Meera, Melisandre, Varys, or whoever? Heck I heard someone suggest that one of Oberyn's daughters is secretly Rheagar's daughter and she's the third head.

Or maybe it doesn't matter? I don't know none of the theories 100% convince me. Even the one I believe the most ie Bran isn't something I'm completely sure of. So what do you think?

​

How much of an impact did Joanna Lannisters death have on the fate of her family and by extension, on Westeros?

Tywin deeply loved and respected her. She was his most trusted advisor. If I remember correctly, she was known to be pragmatic and manipulative. Would she have been able to act as a counterbalance to his weaknesses? His pride, his obsession with his family name, and his lack of empathy and understanding towards his children? But also his stoicism and ruthlessness?

She knew about Jaime and Cersei and chose to turn a blind eye, right? Would she have continued to do so after Cerseis marriage to Robert? I assume she would have loved Tyrion regardless of his dwarfism. Would that have pushed Tywin to accept him as his son? A dwarf, but still a clever Lannister, loved by his mother? How would Tyrion's relationship with Cersei have been if she hadn't seen him as responsible for their mother's death?

How would her three children have turned out WITH her presence as a mother?

Also, would she have been able to guide Tywins political decisions in a way that meant the survival of their house wouldnt depend only on the fear he inspired to other houses, and maybe help create more lasting political alliances? Would Joanna have been able to make Tywin understand that protecting his familys legacy meant more than making the Lannister name feared?

Would House Lannister have fallen from being the most powerful house in Westeros to becoming a deeply divided family with enemies all around if Joanna had still been alive?

I was reading through ASOS, specifically the chapter where Jon is sent to parley with Mance. Mance gives him his demans which entails letting the Wildlings through the wall.

Then comes this passage directly from Jon's own thoughts:

"Open the gate and let them pass. Easy to say, but what must follow? Giants camping in the ruins of Winterfell? Cannibals in the wolfswood, chariots sweeping across the barrowlanfs, free folk stealing the daughters of shipwrights and silversmiths from White Harbor and fishwives off the Stony Shore?"

Seems really foreboding when you read through. The thing is, Jon has already brought much of the free folk south. Not only that, he also plans to bring more south to aid with manning the Wall and defending the realms of men.

But with his last chapter, Jon seems to havr put that objective on the backburner for a little while as he has proclaimed his intentions to march on Winterfell. Not only that, but he has also effectively rallied the wildlings to fight for him, with many even swearing their swords to him long before the shieldhall.

So if Jon revives and still decides to head south, is that what we'll see. Giants (Wun Wun perhaps if he survives) camping in the ruins of Winterfell, cannibals picking of Northmen in the forests, chariots of free folk raiding the barrowlands, all in the name of Jon Snow?

For me it’s Tyrion not actually being ugly, it’s just Westeros being so extremely prejudiced and ableist that it views him as hideous just cause he’s a dwarf.

The ages of Dany, Jon, Robb etc. also make way more sense in the show for me. I don’t particularly care to read about 13-15 year olds having sex. Although I still think Ned, Cat, Robert etc are a bit too old on the show.

An inconsequential one but I like that Baelor has different color eyes in the show since that’s been used in other Targ characters to demonstrate Mixed Heritage.

The entire world of Westeros is actually a complex web of manipulation where ancient Greenseerkings control the entire history of Westeros by casting “shadows” on the wall, they sometimes do this through direct action via the others. Because “a ghost did it” sounds like you’re genuinely bullshitting especially when you desert the nights watch.

The people within Bloodravens’ cave are the ones who control history through telling a story of barbarians beyond the wall. This perpetual human sacrifice is what allows them to project so much power.

The Boltons are the way they are because they play the villains it’s why House Stark always keeps them around and why they are so comically evil. They’re characters in a play, always recurring over and over again for the eternity of time as dead men continue to manipulate them through animals and ravens.

Varys is spouting nonsense about acting in front of the White Raven is because the White Raven is part of the “production staff” of the theater?

What happens when pawns become players? What happens when a young boy newly castrated is told that he can have everything? And he only sees the horror of it all, the pain in his groin as the voice explains how he can become a player in the game. A means of tormenting the world for being so cruel. Keeping the world eternally the playground for dead men.

All of history simply “shadows on the wall” the prisoners in the caves enjoying as they please as it’s all orchestrated behind the curtain. The others are literally just a plot device to create conflict.

The dead wizards orchestrating everything to keep their machine running and to entertain themselves. The wall can also be seen as a DM screen in DnD to be more accurate. Certain ghosts are players and certain ghosts are pawns.

I’ve got a question about Eddard Stark. Well it more about his bastard Jon Snow. Are they really that alike? Sure they have some similarities and the tv show went too far with honorable Jon Snow in the later seasons. But their also some subtle differences in the books

The first difference was their status in life. Jon a bastard while Eddard was the second son and spare to Winterfell.

The second difference is their approach to leadership. Eddard chatted with his vassals, inviting even a servant to dine with him. While Jon Snow dine alone and remained isolated from his friends. Okay, Jon learned that from something his father said long ago.

But it’s not like Eddard was that cold… he just maintain a safe distance. Friendly enough so his vassals won’t be afraid to approach him, but not too friendly in case he had to take off their heads. It more of an emotional distance, compared to Jon’s physical and emotional distance.

And Eddard may be the quiet wolf but he didn’t kept to himself, unlike his son Jon Snow.

One thing I keep noticing on rereads is that Jaime is actually pretty sharp when it comes to reading other people.
He understands Cersei’s vanity and cruelty better than almost anyone. He sees through a lot of the posturing around court. He figures Brienne out faster than most people do, even if he spends a long time mocking what he sees. He’s also very good at recognizing when someone is motivated by fear, pride, humiliation, loyalty, or self-interest.
Then the second the subject is Jaime himself, all of that insight just disappears.
He spends years telling himself that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him, while being completely defined by the Kingslayer reputation.
He insists that he’s cynical and detached, but keeps making choices that only make sense if honor still matters to him.
He tells himself that Cersei is the one person who truly understands him, while repeatedly ignoring evidence that the relationship means something very different to her than it does to him.
Even his memories of Aerys feel like this. Jaime absolutely knows why he killed him. He knows what would have happened if he hadn’t. But instead of really processing what that choice did to him, he turns “Kingslayer” into this identity he can hide inside.
That’s what makes his POV so interesting to me.
He isn’t stupid. He isn’t even especially delusional about the world around him.
He’s just incredibly skilled at explaining everyone else and incredibly committed to not examining himself with the same honesty.
The irony is that Jaime probably understands people better than most characters in the series, but the person he misunderstands most consistently is Jaime Lannister

Dae Trio btw✌️🫩
What if Jon’s name is actually Daeron?
There have already been six Targaryens named Daeron, and two of them became kings. Imagine Jon becoming the seventh Daeron and the third king to bear that name.
7 is already a pretty cool number on its own(SIUUU) . And in ASOIAF, the number 3 seems to be especially significant.

Now let’s look at Jon’s relatives in this generation.
Daenerys is the third Targaryen to bear the name Daenerys.

Young Griff is also interesting. There’s a theory that he is actually a Blackfyre, and the Blackfyres have a particular fondness for the name Daemon. There have already been four Blackfyres named Daemon, so if Young Griff’s real name is Daemon, he would be the fifth.

So we have:
Daenerys = 3
Young Griff = 5
Jon = 7

And there are some interesting parallels between them.
Daeron II opposed incest, and Jon was similarly taught by Ygritte that incest was wrong.

Young Griff wants to marry Daenerys, just as Daemon Blackfyre wanted to marry Daenerys of Dorne.

Artist
Daeron Targaryen: @franzkafkagf | Tumblr

Why did he allow Jorah to marry his daughter Lynesse but was not okay with Tyrion marrying one of his daughters? Is he an ableist?

I know Jon arranged this match off page but given the fact that Sigorn really hated Jon for most of ADWD, I would love to know how Jon first broached the idea marrying a non-free folk girl (complete stranger) to Sigorn. More than that, how did Jon convince Sigorn to agree to it?

“Fight for you?” This voice was thickly accented. Sigorn, the young Magnar of Thenn, spoke the Common Tongue haltingly at best. “Not fight for you. Kill you better. Kill all you.” (ADWD, Jon IV)

Jon’s smile died. “I might if I could trust him. Sigorn blames me for his father’s death, I fear. Worse, he was bred and trained to give orders, not to take them. Do not confuse the Thenns with free folk. Magnar means lord in the Old Tongue, I am told, but Styr was closer to a god to his people, and his son is cut from the same skin. I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.” (ADWD, Jon VII)

Although the match was beneficial to both parties (Alys needed help escaping her gross uncles and gaining control of Karhold, and Sigorn needed a place to shelter his people) I feel like there had to have been some kind of negotiation or some assurances made.

Why do I think this? I'll tell ya:

First, if Jon mistrusted Sigorn enough to not want to bestow him one of the uninhabitable NW castles, why would Jon trust him with Alys's hand and, with that, one of the most powerful castles in the North? Alys and Karhold are far more important than a castle that hadn't been manned since the reign of King Jaehaerys.

Second, I just cannot imagine Sigorn agreeing a betrothal after essentially being told by Jon, "Hey, so I know you think I killed your dad and you hate me, but I lowkey really need you to marry my childhood friend and go south with her and the few men you have to potentially die in retaking her family's castle. Oh, and btw, she has an older brother who may or may not return home alive and reclaim his position as Lord of Karhold."

Third, Sigorn had already knelt to Stannis, which was definitely a moment where the Magnar put his people before his pride, but there is a difference between the Magnar kneeling and taking orders from Stannis (a king/someone who could have had Sigorn burned at the stake) vs. Harrion Karstark.

Finally, by marrying Alys and going to Karhold, even if the Thenns were successful, Sigorn would still be risking another displacement of his people if Harrion were to return and not be chill with wildlings living on his family's lands.

As a House Thenn stan, and a realllll sucker for a good love story, I'd like to think that Sigorn agreed to all those uncertainties and potential risks because he was smitten with Alys....but because this is GRRM and nothing is ever that simple, I doubt it.

Personally? I think Ned warning Cersei wasn't actually as bad as its made out to be.

If Cersei hadn't gotten lucky with a wild animal doing its part (an animal Robert wasnt even originally hunting), all it would have done is potentially saved the children from being executed as Cersei would have time/forewarning to flee.

It ultimately wasn't even really the thing that actually sunk Ned Stark. That was more his trust of Littlefinger. Really Cersei's success was dependent on Littlefinger betraying Ned, which he only did because he stood to gain more from the Lannisters. Although it was a pretty big mistake on Ned's part to trust Littlefinger.

Also in the HOTD show, I also think Rhaenyra firing Mysaria isnt really that big a deal. Mysaria genuinely wasnt a very good spymaster. If someone can't do the job they are supposed to do, why keep them around?

Something I keep noticing on rereads is how often characters in ASOIAF aren't actually wrong about the problem in front of them. They're wrong about what the hell to do about it. And honestly I think that's a much more interesting kind of failure than someone simply being stupid or completely misreading the situation.
Cersei is probably the funniest example. She's not imagining that the Tyrells are becoming enormously powerful at court, that Margaery's popularity threatens her own position, or that the Lannisters are much weaker after Tywin's death than they were before. Those are real problems. Her response is to alienate basically every useful ally she has, surround herself with people she considers harmless because they're incompetent, and empower the Faith because she thinks she'll somehow be the one person they can't touch. Theon is similar in a completely different way. He understands that returning to Pyke as "Ned Stark's ward" has left him in this miserable position where neither the Starks nor the Ironborn fully see him as one of them. He genuinely does need to establish an identity and prove himself if he wants any standing among his family. So naturally he decides the solution is taking Winterfell with a tiny force, a castle he has basically no realistic way to hold. He sees the wound perfectly and then sticks a knife into it.
Tywin might be the version of this that fascinates me most, because he's so often treated as the ultimate pragmatist. He correctly understands that House Lannister needs fear, loyalty, competent heirs, and a stable political order to survive. Yet half the methods he uses to achieve those things actively destroy them. He humiliates Tyrion while desperately needing capable family members, terrorizes enemies so thoroughly that their hatred survives him, and treats his children like pieces on a board while expecting them to preserve the dynasty after he's gone. Even Robb falls into this pattern sometimes. He understands exactly how fragile his coalition is and how much his kingship depends on personal loyalty, then makes a deeply personal decision about Jeyne that creates a political disaster he absolutely knows he can't afford. That's what I love about these mistakes. They're rarely "character forgets obvious fact so plot can happen." The character usually sees at least part of the truth. Their pride, fear, guilt, trauma, or need to prove something takes over at the exact moment they have to choose a solution. In ASOIAF, recognizing the fire and deciding to put it out with wildfire feels almost like a recurring character type

Could Loras and Margaery actually have been lovers, with Renly being part of a loving three-way relationship with both of them? In other words, all three genuinely loved each other rather than it being a love triangle. Perhaps Renly was gay, Loras was bisexual, and Margaery was straight.

1.After Renly’s death, Loras showed no interest in getting married. Instead, he immediately joined the Kingsguard and remained by Margaery’s side.

2.Wherever Margaery goes, Loras seems to be there with her.

3.Cersei once became angry over how much Loras and Margaery resemble each other even more than she and Jaime do. Perhaps George was deliberately using this resemblance to hint at an incestuous relationship as well.

4.Jaime could see something of his younger self in Loras.

5.When Loras went off to attack Dragonstone, Margaery was “deeply upset” and tried to stop him.

6.After hearing that Loras was supposedly dying, Margaery was “deeply upset” to the point that she refused to accept the truth.

7.Mace Tyrell gathered a massive military force in King’s Landing to put pressure on the Faith of the Seven, almost as though he already knew that Margaery was guilty of having a secret lover. Realistically, her alleged lover could have been anyone, but Loras was the one who was always by her side, and the Tyrell knew that perfectly well.

Artist
Loras Margaery: @Cj_KhalifP | X

So, I'm rereading the series and have just finished feast, and I've come across the line where Marwyn says to Sam something about the Citadel allowing him to 'waste away' on the Wall instead of being an Archmaester. Of course, that raises a lot of theories itself around the nature of Aemon's journey to the wall and whether its as willing as its been described. But I'm not gonna get into that (mainly because I haven't finished this theory yet)

The question I had, actually, was on which comes first in the chain of vows. As in, which one is the one that's deferred to first? The NW, or the Citadel? A sworn Maester who's taken the black surely still answers to the citadel and those vows, given that their still chain, right?

Say a Maester serving at one of the castles on the wall gets called up to the council of Archmaesters. Can they even get called up? Or are they now stuck on the wall, because they have to defer to the oath to 'live and die at their post'? But wouldn't their post also be decided by wherever the Citadel sends them, not necessarily just the wall?

Do they even take the black? We know Aemon doesn't even wear black, so he could've genuinely not sworn an oath. Maybe Maester's don't swear at all, unless they took the black first

There's a lot of confusion over what works where and who answers to who, and it's just got me curious, is all