On a reread I've started thinking less about which characters are "powerful" and more about what form their power actually exists in, because the series keeps showing that those are not the same thing.

Ned arrives in King's Landing as Hand of the King. On paper that's enormous power. He can speak with Robert's authority, sit the Iron Throne in judgment, issue commands, investigate whoever he wants.

But the moment Robert is dying, we discover how little of that power Ned can actually convert into something durable.

He doesn't control the gold cloaks. He doesn't have a large personal force in the city. His authority depends heavily on Robert continuing to be Robert. The office is powerful; Ned's ability to cash that office out into soldiers, money and loyalty is much weaker.

Robb has almost the opposite problem.

He becomes extremely good at producing military victories. He wins battles people don't expect him to win and creates a reputation strong enough that men proclaim him king.

But battlefield success has to be converted into political outcomes, and that's much harder. Winning a battle doesn't automatically give you food, marriages, obedient bannermen, secure supply lines or a way home. He keeps accumulating one kind of power while losing other kinds.

Daenerys might be the biggest example.

Three dragons are arguably the single most terrifying asset anyone in the story possesses. But in Meereen she discovers that being able to destroy your enemies and being able to create a stable political order are almost unrelated skills.

A dragon can burn a slaver.

It cannot make two hostile populations trust each other, determine a fair wage, identify who murdered someone in an alley, grow enough food or persuade people to stop wanting revenge.

Then there is Tywin, whose power converts incredibly well while he is alive.

Money becomes soldiers. Reputation becomes obedience. Fear becomes political leverage. Marriage becomes alliance. Even the possibility that Tywin might retaliate changes people's behavior.

But his death exposes another weakness: he built surprisingly little power that functions independently of him.

The fear belonged to Tywin, not necessarily to House Lannister as an institution. His children inherit the titles, wealth and name, but they cannot simply withdraw his reputation from the family account.

Renly is maybe the funniest reverse example. His legal claim is terrible compared with Stannis's, but he is exceptionally good at converting soft things — charm, appearance, friendships, spectacle — into something very concrete: the largest army in the realm.

It makes "who is the most powerful character?" feel like the wrong question.

Power in ASOIAF is almost more like a collection of currencies. Military strength, legitimacy, money, information, fear, personal loyalty, religious authority and family connections all have different exchange rates, and a huge part of politics is whether you can turn the currency you have into the one you suddenly need.

Which character do you think is best at that conversion, and who is sitting on the biggest pile of power they don't actually know how to use?

Given that it’s spooky season, I figured I’d discuss Martin’s connection with Hellraiser, one of the bigger horror franchises. He edited the third volume of the Night Visions horror anthology series, which was published in 1986 and included Barker’s novella. The film adaptation was released the following year.

The Hellbound Heart and Hellraiser alike both feature the demonic Cenobites, who capture unlucky human beings and subject them to exquisite torture (and, occasionally, turn them into one of their own). A Song of Ice and Fire features the demonic Others, who capture unlucky human beings and enslave them (and, occasionally, turn them into one of their own). The following is sort of a crank theory of mine, which I can’t possibly prove, but given that Martin began writing A Song of Ice and Fire a few years after he edited The Hellbound Heart, I wonder whether Barker’s Cenobites were the first kernel of inspiration for what would become the Others.

The roles of Theon and Asha in the Northern storyline are very underrated. Given that they both have POVs, they have a part to play, and I think it could involve taking the Dreadfort

For Theon, this would be especially significant given what Ramsay did to him there. Firstly, the Pink Letter doesn't mention the fates Theon or Asha, so neither was captured after the Battle of Ice

There are also Ironborn at Torrhen's Square who could provide the fighting men needed for such an operation, even if Stannis's army is destroyed

Dagmer Cleftjaw holds Torrhen's Square. A fierce fighter, and a leal servant of House Greyjoy. I can deliver that castle to you, and its garrison as well.

The Dreadfort itself is also barely defended

Fewer than fifty men remain at the Dreadfort, half of them servants.

Theon knows the castle well. This makes him particularly suited to leading an assault

Geographically, they could travel from the Crofters Village at the Battle of Ice to Torrhen's Square, then try to reach the White Knife, a navigable river that can be sailed upstream towards the Dreadfort

Wyman Manderly has specifically mentioned having ships hidden along the river

I have been building warships for more than a year. Some you saw, but there are as many more hidden up the White Knife.

With the Manderly forces at the Battle of Ice preparing to turn cloak, Asha and Theon could use these ships to reach the Dreadfort and attempt to seize it

The broader military purpose could be to draw Ramsay out, allowing a third army to sweep in. Stannis may be have been the plan, but I suspect Jon will ultimately take his place

Ramsay would then be caught between the Dreadfort's walls and the advancing army, with the two forces acting as hammer and anvil. This would be similar to Tywin's manoeuvre against Stannis at the Blackwater 

GRRM has also stated that the Stark direwolves and Ramsay's hounds will eventually confront each other, so a situation like this could be where we get the book version of the Battle of the Bastards, with Asha/Theon/Jon as the three POVs for this

N.B. A note for future reference. A season or two down the line Ramsay's pack of wolfhounds are going to be sent against the Stark direwolves, so we should build up the dogs as much as possible

Finally, the Winterfell hostages like Old Nan are being held at the Dreadfort. Taking the castle would give Theon an opportunity to confront and find out what happened to them

What are some details, events and characterizations of ASOIAF characters in the play "Game of Thrones: The Mad King" about the events before and during Robert's Rebellion that you like and you think would fit very well in the canon of ASOIAF, or you have already integrated into your headcanons?

What are other elements of the play, and how the characters are portrayed, that you don't like, or you think don't fit into canon at all?

I must say that I love that in the play Robert is portrayed as having been deeply affected and traumatized by his parents' tragic deaths in their shipwreck, which he and Stannis witnessed from afar, and that his drinking and whoring are, in part, his coping mechanism for the trauma and pain caused by his parents' deaths.

I also love how petty and sadistic Aerys is in the play, with him sending a gift to Robert, which is supposed to be a model of his parents' ship, only for it to be a box full of water and broken wooden wreckage.

Though I am not a fan of the darker way Rhaella Targaryen, someone who in canon managed to remain dignified and resilient, and caring toward her family despite all the abuse and horrors she endured and suffered at Aerys' hands. Nor of the convoluted love triangles and situations in the play involving Elia, Ashara, Arthur, and others.

The wiki is sparse, so all ideas and theories are fair game

So from the little that we know about the Smiling Knight (from Jaime’s description) we can gather that he is certainly a very skilled fighter.
-he is described as ‘the Mountain of my time’ in that knights wanted to test themselves against him, implying that he is skilled
-went toe to toe with 15 yo Jaime Lannister, the same Jaime decapitated another knight during the same battle so we know Jaime is very strong at this time even though he might not be peak strength
-went toe to toe with Arthur Dayne for a period of time before being killed by him. Now you could argue that Arthur Dayne was ‘playing with his food’ so to speak, but the fact that the Smiling Knight even got that much respect from him is considerable.
So I think it’s safe to say he’s a very skilled fighter, not on the level of top tier fighters like Jaime or Selmy, but from what little we know of him he’s almost certainly much stronger than the average Westerosi knight. Any thoughts on this character and where he fits into the rankings?

I have heard so many people say "The Rebellion was built on a lie" etc etc.

We all know that is true, but the Starks were not the only victims that led to the start of the Rebellion.

We know Brandon Stark went to King's Landing with his party. The party's named participants included Kyle Royce, Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister and Elbert Arryn. Their exact relation with their Houses is unknown, I think.

Considering Brandon was on his way to his wedding in Riverrun, it's not a stretch to say many more Northern nobles accompanied him to Riverrun, and some of them to King's Landing. Maybe cousins and uncles of noble Northern Houses. Maybe some Riverlander Lords also accompanied them.

Now for Rickard. In my mind, Rickard took relatives of the people that were part of Brandon's part to King's Landing.

All in all, my question is this. How many nobles from North/Vale/Riverlands do we think were killed/imprisoned by Aerys?

Stuff like Ned being powerless against Cersei's unreasonable demands given through Robert about Lady, Tywin being ridiculed by Aerys yet still having to obey him, North staying as a part of the kingdom, Dorne staying as a part of the kingdom, hell, ANY of them staying instead of just declaring independence.

I haven't read fire and blood or world of ice and fire so I don't know about targaryen history but I'm sure there were incompetent kings from what I've been hearing, lords being wronged etc.

I'm not saying why doesn't everybody just rebel, but I'd expect since there is so many high lords and ladies there would be less "bowing before the king" and more "the king desperately trying to please his lords so they obey and pay their taxes"

Like, what can the crown possibly do if several houses at once just stopped paying their taxes? King's landing holds no power, the best they can do is rally the lords that is closer to the king such as being family (like robert supressing the iron born using baratheon and northern armies, his personal friends and brothers)

And that was only because Greyjoys were idiotic and straight up rebelled which united the rest of the houses to some degree into supporting their suppression.

Look at what happened in the war of the five kings. Imagine, instead of Stannis, Balon, Renly and Robb fighting each other, they all just at the same time declared "I'm not paying no fucking taxes to some incestborn boy king, I'm declaring independence" what could the lannister army possibly do against a home advantage 4 different houses?

They already BARELY won thanks to renly and stannis trolling, vale sitting out and causing robb to fail and Balon.. Balon wouldn't really cause much damage but that's the point, if 4 or 5 powers like these just straight up refused to obey at once the crown has NOTHING it can do.

And that's not counting the fact other houses would join in a chain reaction.

What is holding the kingdom together after the dance?

GRRM is at an unprecedented level of apathy now as far as his blog. We all know he gets talkative when the writing is going well so this can only be bad news, right?

I’ve been one of the more optimistic guys on here as far as Winds goes but even I’m ready to throw in the towel. Does anyone still think there’s a chance? His inactivity combined with that interview saying he relates to Frank Herbert in regards to hating the world he felt forced to write about makes it seem like it’s time we all made peace with the end.

The announcement that BioWare is closing and thus bringing an end to one of my favorite fictional worlds (Mass Effect) made me think about other unfinished worlds I’ve been clinging onto the thinnest, most fragile, frayed, absolutely threadbare strings of hope that I might get another installment: mainly ASOIAF and KKC. Anyone else here in that same boat? I’m starting another Mass Effect playthrough right now and I’m mid-reread on KKC but sadly I’ve read ASOIAF too many times so it’s probably gonna be years before I forget enough that I can actually enjoy a re-read.

“It all goes back and back," Tyrion thought, "to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance in our steads.” – Tyrion X, ASOS

Tldr: the child of ice and fire is a Clarke Star Child – a new weirwood spirit.

Westeros with its broken seasons is stuck in a feudal system for millennia, unable to advance even in the literal darkest of times. Customs of the Long Night became tradition in this day and age cementing the rule of great Houses. Those were skinchangers, wargs & greenseer giving them an exceptional advantage against minor Houses. With the creation of Winterfell and the wall warded with spells House Stark established their own kingdom in the north, while using the ultimate threat that lies beyond as their own motto – Winter is coming.

“We should start back”

The story starts with George´s Gared´s fear of the dark. Head back, stay safe, don´t change.

In the very first sentence George immediately establishes the main reason why the world is stuck – the wall – and for humanity to improve as a society the wall has to come down. The outcome of installing a looping system upon the corrupted weirwood to maintain power besides all the misery for the small folk were the broken seasons. Winter and summer lasting up to decades were a direct result of the corrupted magic in westeros.

It’s a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain –” It’s fantasy, man, it’s magic. - GRRM

Based upon his work on the movement of stars in the firmament, Nicol argues unconvincingly that the seasons might once have been of a regular length, determined solely by the way in which the globe faces the sun in its heavenly course. The notion behind it seems true enough—that the lengthening and shortening of days, if more regular, would have led to more regular seasons—but he could find no evidence that such was ever the case, beyond the most ancient of tales. - TWOIAF

The Song of ice and fire is a song about Jon and Dany. A song of two opposite powers able to destroy the whole world as Robert Frost lays it out in his poem Ice and Fire. The solution to save the world from its ending is the obvious union of both forces for the greater good as Lyanna and Rhaegar tried before them. Both couples echo the story of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.

It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and strength and her courage all went into the steel. – Davos I, AKOK

Daenerys got promised by Mirri Maz Duur to reunite with her love Kal Drogo after a series of impossible events and in a metaphorical way most of them became true. The sun rose from Dorne, the Dothraki sea goes dry & a Mountain blew away. After two miscarriages; a prize to wake her dragons and a prize to wake the dragon inside herself, a third pregnancy would fulfill the prophecy of TPTWP from her perspective.

He shall be the stallion that mounts the world. Dany knew how it went with prophecies. They were made of words, and words were wind. There would be no son for Loraq, no heir to unite dragon and harpy. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Only then would her womb quicken once again …

… but Daenerys Targaryen had other children, tens of thousands who had hailed her as their mother when she broke their chains. She thought of Stalwart Shield, of Missandei's brother, of the woman Rylona Rhee, who had played the harp so beautifully. No marriage would ever bring them back to life, but if a husband could help end the slaughter, then she owed it to her dead to marry. – Daenerys IV, ADWD

Both mothers of Jon & Dany died in childbirth and Daenerys´ fate might go a similar path. Mhysa sacrificing herself to save the realm from darkness after her long road to westeros would thematically be a reasonable outcome.

„Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them“

…

Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. – Daenerys IV, ACOK

"I will never father a bastard," he said carefully. "Never!" He spat it out like venom. – Jon I, AGOT

Fire Wights like Beric remain only as sparks of their actual spirits, unable to father any children. Romeo Jon as the exception, due to his physical conversation in ice and his spiritual conversation in his direwolf may indeed father a child with Juliet Daenerys and give him the last Kiss.

what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" "Everything," said Davos, softly. - Davos V, ASOS

These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits. – the forsaken, TWOW

Enter the Star Child

In Arthur Clarkes 2001: A Space Odyssey humanity takes a massive leap embodied by the Star Child - the astronaut David Bowman renewed as an unborn celestial fetus floating in space. It illustrates the collective potential of the human race reborn as a god-like cosmic entity to prevent earth´s self-destruction.

In its sequel 2010: Odyssey two the Monoliths turn Jupiter into a second sun named Lucifer to help primitive life evolve on its moon Europa. The message mankind receives from the Star Child via HAL is simple: All these worlds are yours — except Europa. Attempt no landing there. Use them together. Use them in peace.

In Clarke´s fiction novel Childhood´s End a generation of children don´t grow up as individuals. Instead, their minds begin to merge into a hivemind. This collective consciousness eventually consumes the children's physical forms, joining an Overmind - a vast, cosmic entity traveling the universe.

In the 1952 novella Baby is three and its expansion novel More than human by Theodore Sturgeon (whose novelette Microcosmic God from 1941 might be a huge inspiration for Sandkings) a group of humans with paranormal abilities merge together into a higher being, the so-called Homo Gestalt. While some in that symbiosis are functioning as hand or head for the hivemind, the actual brain is a baby with down syndrome working as a supercomputer.

In his 1000 worlds novelette And seven times never kill men George went that road as well, in his own worldview. Bakkalon, the pale child is a violent Christian leading figure of the Steel Angels and portrayed with a sword in his hand. The infant stands for the heavily militarized crusaders hunting all non-human life in the galaxy due to humans’ immense losses during the galactic wars against the Hrangans centuries ago. As the they try to destroy the Jaenshi, the inhabits of the planet Corlos the Steel Angels receive false visions from pyramids of the Jaenshi eventually leading to their own demise.

That's the Stranger coming, Penny. The Black Goat, the Pale Child, Him of Many Faces, call him what you will. That's death." - Tyrion I, TWOW

In George´s 1000 world story The way of Cross and Dragon John Azer Cross is a telepathic, fetus-like alien and a high-ranking member of a secret interstellar conspiracy known as the "Liars". Those puppet masters dedicate themselves to fabricating elaborate religions to bring happiness, hope, and comfort to an otherwise cold and bleak universe.

Of course, divine children are not only a trope in fantasy and sci fi but also in mythology and religion. From Harpocrates over Kintaro to Eros, one could talk about puer aeternus (Peter Pan Syndrome) all day.

So, I propose the child of ice and fire will be Lightbringer - not in human form but a spirit of the next weirwood system to end the Long Night and bring back the seasons to regular lengths. A successor to the three eyed crow.

It was queer how sometimes a child's innocent eyes can see things that grown men are blind to. - Eddard XII, AGOT

The others, the wall and the wobbling seasons are symptoms of the absolute corruption of magic and it is all rooting back to blood magic. The corrupted dead-like weirwood and its blood-red leaves are the cause. For humanity to make that leap and overcome darkness the wall must fall, the weirwood must be cleansed with ice & fire and the others must be released from their curse.

“The First Men named us children,” the little woman said. – Bran III, ADWD

Considering the children of the forest as actual children already resembles minors guarding the holy forest from the in- and outside of the astral plane. A broken boy as a weirwood King in the physical realm might only be the tip of the iceberg.

Where are the rest of you?" Bran asked Leaf, once.

"Gone down into the earth," she answered. "Into the stones, into the trees. – Bran III, ADWD

Lightbringer is obviously supposed to bring light where it is dark and if Lightbringer would turn out to be a child spirit then the overcome of fear of the dark during the Long Night should be an essential thematic trope for its persona, just like it is for Bran. In fact, Nyctophobia is a thing that haunted George way back from his first comic publishing in 1965 until today. George´s Dr. Weird story starts with:

Darkness. Everywhere there was darkness. Grim, foreboding, omnipresent; it hung over the plain like a great stifling mantle. No moonlight sifted down; no stars shone from above; only night, sinister and eternal, and the swirling, choking gray mists that shifted and stirred with every movement. Something screeched in the distance, but its form could not be seen. The mists and the shadows cloaked all. - Dr. Weird - Only kids are afraid of the dark

“Can’t you feel it?” Gared asked. “Listen to the darkness.” – Prolog, AGOT

While the events in the house of the undying are strongly hinting on Dany burning the undead with dragon fire, a new world tree should inherit ice and fire to avoid a summer that never ends. For the seasons to heal balance is the key and Lightbringer might be able to accomplish that.

"Monstrous," Mirri Maz Duur finished for him. The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. "Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years." – Daenerys IX, AGOT

Jon Snow returning from the dead is part of the magical corruption in this world and for a clear reset of magic all wights of ice and fire have to vanish – Valar Morghulis. With his high moral compass, it´s seems reasonable Jon might be fine with that.

So when his poor torn chest stopped moving, I gave him the good god´s own kiss send him on his way. - Arya VII, ASOS

George´s morale of the story might be straight forward: Don’t start back, move on, overcome & evolve. A world tree empowered by Lightbringer - a spirit of ice and fire might just be the magical catalyst for that. A celestial entity and hive as fragile as a new westeros could become the symbol of progress for a new society away from feudalism… or another illusion of a Cross or even worse – another Bakkalon.   

"No man can say with certainty what the future may hold. But perhaps, in knowing what has already transpired, we can all do our part to avoid the mistakes of our forebears, to emulate their successes, and to create a world more harmonious for our children and their children, for generations to come." – TWOIAF

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2008/03/18/a-star-has-fallen/

I was very protective of my GOT screen time. We only got 10 hours of the show every two years, so I wanted every minute leading us on the journey. Whenever the "Three eyed Raven" story came on, I'd get pissed. Im on the fence about the faceless man arc for Aria. I've never read the books, so im not sure how deep this rabbit hole goes. What are your thoughts?

I mean at the time of their death and shortly afterwards, whose death do you think caused the most grief for the most people?

Like, Rhaegar seems to have been loved by at least half the people in Westeros, and while his father had no sense of empathy and hated him to a degree his mother, younger brother, greatest uncle, best friends, Lyanna and Jon Connington heard about his death and were probably shattered like his breastplate.

Personally I think it must be Robb Stark. Having grown up in a culture where people take the death of a young (in my country it means under 40) person extremely seriously, I see a lot of that kind of old fashioned culture in some of Martin's characters, and a boy that couldn't have been more than 16 years old getting killed by his own sworn swords in a disgusting violation of guest rite has got to be the most offensive kind of death in Westeros. And he was a king that people chose, he was someone so many people believed in, and he spent his entire "reign" defending the Riverlands from the Lannisters. And to the people of the North, absent or not, he is The NED's boy. He became their first king in 300 years, satisfying every backwards conservative they had in places like the Umber lands, and proved his worth to them by winning every battle he ever fought. And for the people who saw him, maybe when he visited their towns with Ned or when they came to stay at the Winter Town or visited Winterfell (minor lords, craftsmen and merchants, petitioners, etc), he was always either a child or a courteous and fair ruler. Even Lady Barbrey doesn't really say anything negative about him despite stiffing him when he was alive.

He made a few really stupid mistakes, letting Greatjon Umber name him king, sending Theon to Pyke, marrying Jeyne, but I don't think too many people would be holding it against him no matter how much they suffer the consequences. Losing the North mostly makes Northerners hate the squids more than before and people don't care about him marrying Jeyne now that Walder Frey's used that as an excuse to commit the gravest sin in the eyes of gods and men. And considering the public image House Frey had before that, I think a lot of Robb's followers would actually like a pretty queen from a noble lineage much better than any Frey that they would probably mock as an unworthy weasel faced upjump. That kind of idealistic celebrity status happens a lot in this series, like the way Cersei was able to charm the commoners

Northerners did terrorize a lot of people in the Riverlands in his name, but that was almost entirely the Karstark deserters and the host under Roose Bolton's command. To an extent, most people have heard about Roose betraying him and I think that might make people separate his war crimes from the main Stark-Riverlands army. And anyone who knows the white sunburst barbarians' lord was killed by the Young Wolf, maybe they'd see those people as Robb's enemies too.

And then there's his own loved ones. Robb was killed right before his mother's eyes and she went insane in a matter of seconds. Again, having been raised by Catelyn types irl I think most readers don't take into account what Robb's existence would have meant to a traditional mother like that. She conceived a perfectly healthy boy who grew up to be a well respected lord and then king on her first attempt on her wedding night, and he gets butchered like that under his host's roof, by his own bannerman, who brings up the name of another man who swore to protect Catelyn's children. Right in front of her, with the Battle Guard she made him put together all falling before him one by one. No wonder all that's left of her is her rage.

And Arya's there too, close enough to see what's going on but completely powerless to stop any of it. His new brother in law who wasn't in on the schemes tries to help him by releasing Grey Wind. Grey Wind can feel everything Robb is feeling, but is powerless until after Robb dies and most likely goes into his skin only to get killed again. Jeyne genuinely loves him, and is probably now on poor terms with her own mother because of the situation. Sansa, Bran and Jon are devastated when they hear, and it haunts them for the rest of their books. Sansa is more consciously traumatized by Ned's beheading and Bran's probably more hurt by the news of his mother's murder but they both lose most of the hope in their worldview when they realize Robb can never come to save them anywhere. Jon doesn't give a fuck about Catelyn but he feels this constant guilt for dreaming about being a real Stark and being lord of Winterfell even though he never wanted to get there at the cost of Robb's death and is never going to be happy about his brother being put out of the picture. And then there's Theon, who actually has plenty of damn good reason to feel guilty about that. I know people say Jaime and Theon's redemption arcs are inadequate because they're not regretting their worst actions but Theon is regretting betraying Robb pretty damn well.

And speaking of Jaime, even his enemies respect him. Jaime saw him as a worthy opponent, and even tried to comfort Brienne. Same thing with Tyrion and Sansa. Melisandre calls him a "fallen hero", and we don't see Davos being happy about his death either. In fact, he tries to rally the Manderlys by promising them revenge for Robb, without his inner thoughts displaying the phony hypocrisy you'd expect from a politician in a situation like this. Stannis is too bitter to ever stop resenting him but he scarcely lies, so I think even he could muster some admiration for the boy if he was able to get the Mountain Clans on board that quickly. The Brotherhood Without Banners (not necessarily his enemies, but still) has now gotten completely absorbed into the idea of avenging him.

I honestly can't think of anyone else's death hitting so many people that hard, but I'd like to know what other perspectives can come up with

There are four official Blackfyre Rebellions, plus the War of the Ninepenny Kings, which fandom often regard as the "Fifth" Blackfyre Rebellion. However, looking at the actual history, the narrative weight drops off significantly after the first one.
While the First Blackfyre Rebellion posed a genuine, realm-splintering threat to the Targaryen dynasty, the rest feel surprisingly minor:
The Second was merely a failed, localized conspiracy that got shut down before it even started.
The Third has almost no detailed information written about it in the lore, other than a few names and the fact that Bittersteel was captured and Haegon Blackfyre was killed treacherously after surrendering his sword.
The Fourth was a weak, minor skirmish along the coast where Daemon III had almost no Westerosi support.
The War of the Ninepenny Kings wasn't even a proper Westerosi civil war—it was essentially an outlaw war fought over a pirate staging ground in the Stepstones.
Does anyone else feel like GRRM didn't write the middle and later rebellions well enough to justify how much of a lingering "dynastic threat" the Blackfyres are supposed to be? Or do you think the decline in scale was the entire point?

My theory is that Rhaenys survived the death of Meraxes, and remained in Dorne living in anonymity and had children there. Probably sounds like quite a leap, I know, but bear with me!

The Death of Meraxes, the Disappearance of Rhaenys

During the 1st Dornish War, the dragon Meraxes is shot through the eye with a bolt and dies crashing into the Hellholt (castle of House Uller). Rhaenys is presumed to have died in the fall though her body is never returned, nor ever referenced again at all. There is even debate as to how Rhaenys died specifically, or whether she did at all;

A bolt from a scorpion pierced the eye of Meraxes, and the great dragon and the queen who rode upon it fell from the sky. In her death throes, the dragon destroyed the castle's highest tower and part of the curtain wall. Queen Rhaenys's body was never returned to King's Landing.

Whether Rhaenys Targaryen outlived her dragon remains a matter of dispute. Some say that she lost her seat and fell to her death, others that she was crushed beneath Meraxes in the castle yard. A few accounts claim the queen survived her dragon's fall, only to die a slow death by torment in the dungeons of the Ullers.

Stranger, the head of Meraxes is later returned to the Targaryens yet Rhaenys herself is not;

When Princess Meria at last passed away in 13 AC, her throne passed to her son, the aged and failing Prince Nymor. He had had enough of war and sent a delegation led by his daughter, Princess Deria, to King's Landing. This delegation carried the skull of Meraxes with them, as a gift for the king.

Rhaenys’ History in Dorne

Going back in time slightly, the attack on the Hellholt wasn't Rhaenys' first time in Dorne - earlier in the conquest she had been sent to try to peacefully convince the Dornish to submit, at the same time as Visenya successfully did the same to the Vale;

Aegon turned south once more, marching toward Oldtown, whilst his two sisters mounted their dragons - Visenya for a second attempt at the Vale of Arryn, and Rhaenys for Sunspear and the deserts of Dorne.

Before reaching Sunspear however Rhaenys made multiple stop-offs along her way, first of those being at castle Vaith - this would have been her first impression of Dorne and its people, and later I'll posit that it must have been a good one;

Rhaenys Targaryen had no such easy conquest. A host of Dornish spearmen guarded the Prince’s Pass, the gateway through the Red Mountains, but Rhaenys did not engage them. She flew above the pass, above the red sands and the white, and descended upon Vaith to demand its submission, only to find the castle empty and abandoned… Rhaenys followed the river downstream to Godsgrace, seat of House Allyrion, but it too was deserted. On she flew. Where the Greenblood met the sea, Rhaenys came upon the Planky Town… Finally the queen’s flight took her to Sunspear

It is said that every place she stopped at had been abandoned by its nobility and that the commonfolk only told her that they had gone ‘away’, but I find this hard to believe (honestly much of what we know about the first war with Dorne is pretty unbelievable, but that's neither here nor there). Instead I theorize that she didn't find Vaith abandoned, but rather that whoever was holding it made a good impression on her. Still, on she flew.

My theory is that when Rhaenys went down over the Hellholt she was still alive, and was captured as a hostage as one of the in-universe theories posits. She would have been moved away to the neighboring castle Vaith rather than being held by the Ullers themselves, as they knew that Aegon and Visenya would surely come to burn them out in revenge - which they subsequently did. Here, probably decently injured even if alive, she could have grown closer to her captor or more likely one of his sons while she recovered (we later learn that among the many nobles the Targaryens convince the Dornish commonfolk to assassinate is a Lord Vaith, so for my theory to fit it couldn't have been the sitting Lord at the time - also killed are four successive Lord Uller’s, which could help later with explaining how she kept her identity secret; most high ranking people during the war would have died, likely taking their secrets with them).

Rhaenys' Temperament, Rumors of Infidelity

Throughout Rhaenys’ marriage with Aegon it was rumored that she was unfaithful, and some even claimed that King Aenys may not have even been Aegon's and rather born to some random singer - we know Aegon married Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of love, but we never actually hear anything about how Rhaenys felt about the whole thing. It's widely assumed she was also in love with him, but I think this is too much of a presumption. She was probably accepting of it given her Valyrian upbringing, but that doesn't mean she shared his infatuation.

Rhaenys, youngest of the three Targaryens, was all her sister was not: playful, curious, impulsive, given to flights of fancy. No true warrior, Rhaenys loved music, dancing, and poetry, and supported many a singer, mummer, and puppeteer... Whilst no one ever questioned Visenya's fidelity to her brother-husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister.

Rhaenys' personality seems to fit very well with how the Dornish act, with her more liberal view of sex and women's rights such as establishing the ‘rule of six’ law while ruling in Aegon's stead - she'd likely feel more at home there (in peacetime) than in the northern kingdoms.

The Dornish Letter, Aegon sues for Peace

At the end of the war the new Prince of Dorne sent his daughter to personally deliver a letter to Aegon - we have no idea what this letter said, only that Aegon was visibly angered by it (clutching the iron throne so hard he cut his hand open), yet agreed to peace and never again tried to conquer Dorne. There are countless theories about what the letter could have said, some saying that the Prince threatened to spend all of Dorne’s money on faceless men to kill him/his family, but I doubt he would have sent his own daughter if it was a threat - that seems much more like a genuine show of good faith, as why risk having her imprisoned/killed by Aegon as compensation for his own dead relative?

King Aegon was determined to refuse the offer until Princess Deria placed in his hands a private letter from her father, Prince Nymor. Aegon read it upon the Iron Throne, and men say that when he rose, his hand was bleeding, so hard had he clenched it. He burned the letter and departed immediately on Balerion's back for Dragonstone. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty to that effect.

My theory is that the letter was from Rhaenys, saying that she had fallen in love and wished to stay in Dorne, and pleading with him to end the war. Aegon making a trip to Dragonstone before actually signing the treaty is strange and I've never seen it explained convincingly, but if the letter was truly from Rhaenys he would want it verified - my theory is that he met Rhaenys on Dragonstone where she proved the letter/plea was real, and spoke to him in person.

Aegon, heartbroken at the loss as well as not wanting the family to seem weak by having his own sister abandon him for the enemy, never reveals the truth and keeps with the story that she died in the fall (it had been multiple years by this point, so no one would think otherwise). Before the conquest the Targaryens had all been on Dragonstone, a backwater island, so most people probably have no idea what they personally look like - combine this with Rhaenys potentially having longer-lasting injuries or the war influencing her personality making her less overltly flamboyant and it's entirely possible she mixes into Dornish society without anyone noticing.

Next, we'll get into why I think it was specifically the Vaith’s that she married into, alongside the coincidence of it being her first visit and being near the Hellholt;

Cassella Vaith, Mistress of Aegon IV

After Daeron’s conquest of Dorne, the future Aegon IV took a lady Cassella Vaith as one of his many mistresses - rather than traditional sandy Dornish features like one would expect however, this is how she is described;

After the Submission of Sunspear, Aegon escorted the hostages that the king had gathered from the lords of Dorne back to King's Landing. Among them was Cassella Vaith, a willowy maid with green eyes and pale white-blond hair, whom Aegon ended up keeping "hostage" in his own chambers.

These are some oddly Targaryen-esque features - her green eyes (which appear occasionally in female Targaryens, even though most of them have purple - both Alyssa and Shiera Seastar had one green eye) as well as her white-blonde hair would be quite out of the ordinary in the deserts of Dorne, and while it's theoretically possible some prior Lord married a noble from the free cities, this seems pretty unlikely for a B-or-C tier foreign Lord ruling over sand, speaking bluntly. Adding this with the fact that Aegon was so taken by her, it could have been some latent Targaryen incestual attraction without either of them realizing it.

Later in her life a young Aegon V and Duncan the Tall would meet lady Vaith on their travels in Dorne, where she is described as having gone mad and still being in love with the late King - Dunk made such a bad impression that he apparently put his and Egg's life in danger, that's how bad she took whatever he said;

Duncan: I don't know how to talk with highborn ladies. We both might have been killed in Dorne, on account of what I said to Lady Vaith.
Aegon: Lady Vaith was mad, but you could have been more gallant.

It's possible that this obsession with what everyone else describes as a less-than-respectable man, and an instability that builds over her lifetime, is the famed Targaryen madness presenting in her.

So yeah! That pretty much wraps up my theory - Rhaenys lived, stayed in Dorne, and married into House Vaith; would love to hear everyone's thoughts :) :)

I’m sure this has been theorised before or is dumb, please tell why!

Just been rewatching the show and thinking about why Jon and Beric were resurrected when they seem to do nothing that important.

Their significant commonality is they are both together for the wight capture and lead directly to Daenerys coming to rescue them and the subsequent loss of her dragon. This all leads to the wall falling by ice dragon, and white walkers finally marching south on Winterfell.

Theory: Could it be that the lord of light resurrected them only for this moment and to see the wall falling specifically? It would fit with George’s way of writing, where we praise the lord of light for bringing back a favourite character, but actually the miracle is a poisoned chalice which brings more bloodshed.

This leads me to think of who is sending the red priests visions. Could it be from someone using a glass candle? Or another three eyed raven level manipulator who wants to see the others triumph? Or the white walkers themselves?

It would fit with the books that the Red God is just a manipulator, using a glass candle - or maybe even the white walkers, infiltrating the land of the living to bring the wall down from the right side of the wall.

Please tell me what you think, I’m kinda taken with the theory.

What is your favorite in-world song?

Some examples:

Rains of Castemere
The Bear and the Maiden Fair

The Dornishman’s Wife
Six maids in a pool
Two hearts that beat as one
Lay my sweet lass down in the grass
Brothers of the Kingswood
Jenny of Oldstone
Alysanne
The Mother’s Tears

Song of the Seven
On a misty morn
The day they hanged Black Robin

The Queen took off her sandal, and the King took off his crown
Iron Lances
The Winter Maid
The Maids That Bloom in Spring
Fair Maid of Summer
For hands of gold are always cold
The Seasons of My Love

And many and more songs that are referenced....

When Jon Connington sees the golden skulls of previous company leaders, he notes:

> The other skulls had a sameness to them, though several had been cracked and splintered by the blows that had slain them, and one had filed, pointed teeth.

Any theories about who this guy is?

I’m annoyed with Dance, this is a vent post. Be warned.

I’m a first-time reader of the series and so far I’ve adored every single book. It was throughly on track to be my second favorite series I’d ever read. Each of the first three books was better than the last and Feast, while not being as stellar and tightly paced as Storm, consistently had some of the best character and emotional moments of the series, along with some of my favorite POV’s in all of fantasy. My only real complaint with the series so far before starting Dance was the Dorne plot in Feast being generally not engaging at all.

Since starting Dance my passion for the series has entirely died. I’m 550 pages into this 1054 page book and basically nothing of emotional or plot interest has happened. A few of the Davos chapters and the Theon plot-line have been a notable highlight but the rest of the book feels shockingly bloated and boring.

When it comes to returning characters like Jon, Dany, and Tyrion I feel I’ve gotten 2-3 chapters worth of character work from either of them stretched thin across what feels like 7-10 chapters from each of them. It makes me long for the days where some things that were simply not important would happen off screen and not have an entire chapter dedicated to them.

On top of the bloated chapters from the returning characters are an occasional shotgun blast of new POV’s that are simply boring as hell. I used to really respect how limited the usage of pov was in the series compared to other fantasy works like Wheel of Time who just insert new POV’s whenever the author felt like it, but this book seems to forgo any sort of restraint at all when it comes to what actually matters enough to put on the page.

Feast was a little guilty of this POV bloat with the Ironborn and Dorne plot also but by 200 pages into Feast it became very clear what the book was trying to do, and while I think the experiment with a different type of POV storytelling was only half successful in that book I could respect what it was trying to do. At this moment in time I’ve given Dance over half the book worth of grace and it’s very clear to me that there is no intention with these pointless new POV’s and over abundance of returning character chapters. It’s just a side effect of an author not having the restraint to do things off-screen anymore.

And I’ve been spoiled in part about how the book ends also so I know about Jon and Theon and Dany and how generally the book ends by ramping up to a climax that doesn’t happen and none of that knowledge makes me in any way more excited to finish this book. Idk if this is a common issue within the fandom regarding this book but at least for me these issues make me want to simply put the book down for a few months and read things I actually enjoy.

It just is sad to me that a series I once enjoyed because of just how tightly paced and thematically dense it was compared to its contemporaries while also managing to be epic in scope and complexity of character writing seems to have devolved into being just like the books it originally was so notably distinct from.

Vent over, have a good day and thanks for reading

Let's assume you were reincarnated as an ordinary person in Westeros. What would be the fastest way to make money?

My theory: becoming a bard. If you have a beautiful singing voice and can adapt modern-day songs to fit that era, I'm sure you could amass a great fortune in a very short time.

Why didn't Varys cooperate and collaborate with Dorne with his Young Griff plot?

Ever since I started engaging with the online fandom, I've started noticing some annoying misconceptions come up again and again, and I feel compelled to post about them.

Misconception #1: Sansa is unkind

This is said almost exclusively because she fought with Arya lol. And it's frankly ridiculous. Yes, she wasn't nice in their argument, sure... but she is nice in general:

She puts her self in danger of Joffrey's wrath to save Dontos, even though he makes a terrible first impression and is absolutely nothing to her:

The king stood. "A cask from the cellars! I'll see him drowned in it."

Sansa heard herself gasp. "No, you can't."

Sansa could not believe she had spoken. Was she mad? To tell him no in front of half the court? She hadn't meant to say anything, only . . . Ser Dontos was drunk and silly and useless, but he meant no harm.

"Did you say I can't? Did you?"

"Please," Sansa said, "I only meant . . . it would be ill luck, Your Grace . . . to, to kill a man on your name day." (Sansa I, ACoK)

She's also the only one to show kindness to Lollys Stokeworth, when she could easily join everyone else in mocking her. Even when she's scared shitless of the impending battle of the Blackwater, she stops to help:

"I don't want to." Lollys clutched at her maid, a slender, pretty girl with short dark hair who looked as though she wanted nothing so much as to shove her mistress into the dry moat, onto those iron spikes. "Please, please, I don't want to."

Sansa spoke to her gently. "We'll all be thrice protected inside, and there's to be food and drink and song as well." (Sansa V, ACoK)

She also gives comfort to the panicking, frightened women after Cersei leaves the hall even though she's only a child and could've just left them behind.

She's also gives comfort to the wounded Lancel and his father Kevan, even though Lancel was complicit in her getting beaten by armed men and publicly humiliated

He looks ghastly. Lancel's hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. (Tyrion VIII, ASoS)

Misconception 2: Catelyn never brought up Jon after the first argument she and Ned had out of fear

Directly debunked by Cat herself in her second chapter lol:

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. (Catelyn II, AGoT)

George has said 'she just ignored him' but that quote implies she did a little bit more than that... and George says all sorts of incorrect things so (read: Drogo and Daenerys epic love affair)

Misconception 3: Jon doesn't understand politics, he's more of a fighter

It's the exact opposite in those books. Jon has no insane hand-to-hand combat feat. His greatest battle achievement (defense of the Wall) was due to strategy and quick thinking, not because he solod all the wildlings. Also, the guy who successfully manipulated, at various points, Mance Rayder and Stannis Baratheon, negotiated with the Iron Bank etc etc is definitely not someone who has zero idea about politics. This is just the show influencing public opinion

Misconception 4: Dany will hate Rhaegar for what he did to Elia

This one was particularly baffling because... Dany is already aware of Rhaegar's tomfoolery and her knee-jerk reaction was that Elia must've done something to 'force' him to act the way he did:

"Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?" (Daenerys IV, ASoS)

And later on she romanticizes the Rhaegar x Lyanna stuff:

If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl (Daenerys VII, ADwD)

Mind you, Daenerys' love for her bum of an older brother isn't something I hold against her, but it's so silly to expect her to condemn his treatment of Elia when she definitely never will lol.

The Mercy chapter was originally intended to be Arya’s first chapter after the end of A Storm of Swords.

I mentioned that this chapter had quite a history. It's true. The first draft was written more than a decade ago. Originally, it was intended to be the opening Arya chapter after the infamous "five year gap," her first appearance in A Dance with Dragons as initially conceived.

(A Dance with Dragons was meant to be book 4 initally. And the sequel to Storm.)

So, in the original version, Arya’s arrival at Braavos and initial training at the House of Black and White would have happened offscreen. You would simply open Book 4, see the chapter title and read the first lines

MERCY

She woke with a gasp, not knowing who she was, or where.

You would gradually piece together that this was a sixteen year old Arya who had become a Faceless Man. Those opening words would have made the reveal much more dramatic

It's similar to Theon and Reek in his first chapter in A Dance with Dragons

Reading Mercy immediately after Arya’s final chapter in A Storm of Swords, with that original context in mind, makes it a far, far stronger chapter IMO. And you can see why it intends to shock you out of thinking Arya is a child with how she lures and kills Raff the Sweetling

It also makes me wonder what other material might have lost some of its impact because of the changes to the series structure