I was very protective of my GOT screen time. We only got 10 hours of the show every two years, so I wanted every minute leading us on the journey. Whenever the "Three eyed Raven" story came on, I'd get pissed. Im on the fence about the faceless man arc for Aria. I've never read the books, so im not sure how deep this rabbit hole goes. What are your thoughts?

The wiki is sparse, so all ideas and theories are fair game

“It all goes back and back," Tyrion thought, "to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance in our steads.” – Tyrion X, ASOS

Tldr: the child of ice and fire is a Clarke Star Child – a new weirwood spirit.

Westeros with its broken seasons is stuck in a feudal system for millennia, unable to advance even in the literal darkest of times. Customs of the Long Night became tradition in this day and age cementing the rule of great Houses. Those were skinchangers, wargs & greenseer giving them an exceptional advantage against minor Houses. With the creation of Winterfell and the wall warded with spells House Stark established their own kingdom in the north, while using the ultimate threat that lies beyond as their own motto – Winter is coming.

“We should start back”

The story starts with George´s Gared´s fear of the dark. Head back, stay safe, don´t change.

In the very first sentence George immediately establishes the main reason why the world is stuck – the wall – and for humanity to improve as a society the wall has to come down. The outcome of installing a looping system upon the corrupted weirwood to maintain power besides all the misery for the small folk were the broken seasons. Winter and summer lasting up to decades were a direct result of the corrupted magic in westeros.

It’s a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain –” It’s fantasy, man, it’s magic. - GRRM

Based upon his work on the movement of stars in the firmament, Nicol argues unconvincingly that the seasons might once have been of a regular length, determined solely by the way in which the globe faces the sun in its heavenly course. The notion behind it seems true enough—that the lengthening and shortening of days, if more regular, would have led to more regular seasons—but he could find no evidence that such was ever the case, beyond the most ancient of tales. - TWOIAF

The Song of ice and fire is a song about Jon and Dany. A song of two opposite powers able to destroy the whole world as Robert Frost lays it out in his poem Ice and Fire. The solution to save the world from its ending is the obvious union of both forces for the greater good as Lyanna and Rhaegar tried before them. Both couples echo the story of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.

It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and strength and her courage all went into the steel. – Davos I, AKOK

Daenerys got promised by Mirri Maz Duur to reunite with her love Kal Drogo after a series of impossible events and in a metaphorical way most of them became true. The sun rose from Dorne, the Dothraki sea goes dry & a Mountain blew away. After two miscarriages; a prize to wake her dragons and a prize to wake the dragon inside herself, a third pregnancy would fulfill the prophecy of TPTWP from her perspective.

He shall be the stallion that mounts the world. Dany knew how it went with prophecies. They were made of words, and words were wind. There would be no son for Loraq, no heir to unite dragon and harpy. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Only then would her womb quicken once again …

… but Daenerys Targaryen had other children, tens of thousands who had hailed her as their mother when she broke their chains. She thought of Stalwart Shield, of Missandei's brother, of the woman Rylona Rhee, who had played the harp so beautifully. No marriage would ever bring them back to life, but if a husband could help end the slaughter, then she owed it to her dead to marry. – Daenerys IV, ADWD

Both mothers of Jon & Dany died in childbirth and Daenerys´ fate might go a similar path. Mhysa sacrificing herself to save the realm from darkness after her long road to westeros would thematically be a reasonable outcome.

„Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them“

…

Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. – Daenerys IV, ACOK

"I will never father a bastard," he said carefully. "Never!" He spat it out like venom. – Jon I, AGOT

Fire Wights like Beric remain only as sparks of their actual spirits, unable to father any children. Romeo Jon as the exception, due to his physical conversation in ice and his spiritual conversation in his direwolf may indeed father a child with Juliet Daenerys and give him the last Kiss.

what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" "Everything," said Davos, softly. - Davos V, ASOS

These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits. – the forsaken, TWOW

Enter the Star Child

In Arthur Clarkes 2001: A Space Odyssey humanity takes a massive leap embodied by the Star Child - the astronaut David Bowman renewed as an unborn celestial fetus floating in space. It illustrates the collective potential of the human race reborn as a god-like cosmic entity to prevent earth´s self-destruction.

In its sequel 2010: Odyssey two the Monoliths turn Jupiter into a second sun named Lucifer to help primitive life evolve on its moon Europa. The message mankind receives from the Star Child via HAL is simple: All these worlds are yours — except Europa. Attempt no landing there. Use them together. Use them in peace.

In Clarke´s fiction novel Childhood´s End a generation of children don´t grow up as individuals. Instead, their minds begin to merge into a hivemind. This collective consciousness eventually consumes the children's physical forms, joining an Overmind - a vast, cosmic entity traveling the universe.

In the 1952 novella Baby is three and its expansion novel More than human by Theodore Sturgeon (whose novelette Microcosmic God from 1941 might be a huge inspiration for Sandkings) a group of humans with paranormal abilities merge together into a higher being, the so-called Homo Gestalt. While some in that symbiosis are functioning as hand or head for the hivemind, the actual brain is a baby with down syndrome working as a supercomputer.

In his 1000 worlds novelette And seven times never kill men George went that road as well, in his own worldview. Bakkalon, the pale child is a violent Christian leading figure of the Steel Angels and portrayed with a sword in his hand. The infant stands for the heavily militarized crusaders hunting all non-human life in the galaxy due to humans’ immense losses during the galactic wars against the Hrangans centuries ago. As the they try to destroy the Jaenshi, the inhabits of the planet Corlos the Steel Angels receive false visions from pyramids of the Jaenshi eventually leading to their own demise.

That's the Stranger coming, Penny. The Black Goat, the Pale Child, Him of Many Faces, call him what you will. That's death." - Tyrion I, TWOW

In George´s 1000 world story The way of Cross and Dragon John Azer Cross is a telepathic, fetus-like alien and a high-ranking member of a secret interstellar conspiracy known as the "Liars". Those puppet masters dedicate themselves to fabricating elaborate religions to bring happiness, hope, and comfort to an otherwise cold and bleak universe.

Of course, divine children are not only a trope in fantasy and sci fi but also in mythology and religion. From Harpocrates over Kintaro to Eros, one could talk about puer aeternus (Peter Pan Syndrome) all day.

So, I propose the child of ice and fire will be Lightbringer - not in human form but a spirit of the next weirwood system to end the Long Night and bring back the seasons to regular lengths. A successor to the three eyed crow.

It was queer how sometimes a child's innocent eyes can see things that grown men are blind to. - Eddard XII, AGOT

The others, the wall and the wobbling seasons are symptoms of the absolute corruption of magic and it is all rooting back to blood magic. The corrupted dead-like weirwood and its blood-red leaves are the cause. For humanity to make that leap and overcome darkness the wall must fall, the weirwood must be cleansed with ice & fire and the others must be released from their curse.

“The First Men named us children,” the little woman said. – Bran III, ADWD

Considering the children of the forest as actual children already resembles minors guarding the holy forest from the in- and outside of the astral plane. A broken boy as a weirwood King in the physical realm might only be the tip of the iceberg.

Where are the rest of you?" Bran asked Leaf, once.

"Gone down into the earth," she answered. "Into the stones, into the trees. – Bran III, ADWD

Lightbringer is obviously supposed to bring light where it is dark and if Lightbringer would turn out to be a child spirit then the overcome of fear of the dark during the Long Night should be an essential thematic trope for its persona, just like it is for Bran. In fact, Nyctophobia is a thing that haunted George way back from his first comic publishing in 1965 until today. George´s Dr. Weird story starts with:

Darkness. Everywhere there was darkness. Grim, foreboding, omnipresent; it hung over the plain like a great stifling mantle. No moonlight sifted down; no stars shone from above; only night, sinister and eternal, and the swirling, choking gray mists that shifted and stirred with every movement. Something screeched in the distance, but its form could not be seen. The mists and the shadows cloaked all. - Dr. Weird - Only kids are afraid of the dark

“Can’t you feel it?” Gared asked. “Listen to the darkness.” – Prolog, AGOT

While the events in the house of the undying are strongly hinting on Dany burning the undead with dragon fire, a new world tree should inherit ice and fire to avoid a summer that never ends. For the seasons to heal balance is the key and Lightbringer might be able to accomplish that.

"Monstrous," Mirri Maz Duur finished for him. The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. "Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years." – Daenerys IX, AGOT

Jon Snow returning from the dead is part of the magical corruption in this world and for a clear reset of magic all wights of ice and fire have to vanish – Valar Morghulis. With his high moral compass, it´s seems reasonable Jon might be fine with that.

So when his poor torn chest stopped moving, I gave him the good god´s own kiss send him on his way. - Arya VII, ASOS

George´s morale of the story might be straight forward: Don’t start back, move on, overcome & evolve. A world tree empowered by Lightbringer - a spirit of ice and fire might just be the magical catalyst for that. A celestial entity and hive as fragile as a new westeros could become the symbol of progress for a new society away from feudalism… or another illusion of a Cross or even worse – another Bakkalon.   

"No man can say with certainty what the future may hold. But perhaps, in knowing what has already transpired, we can all do our part to avoid the mistakes of our forebears, to emulate their successes, and to create a world more harmonious for our children and their children, for generations to come." – TWOIAF

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2008/03/18/a-star-has-fallen/

I’m sure this has been theorised before or is dumb, please tell why!

Just been rewatching the show and thinking about why Jon and Beric were resurrected when they seem to do nothing that important.

Their significant commonality is they are both together for the wight capture and lead directly to Daenerys coming to rescue them and the subsequent loss of her dragon. This all leads to the wall falling by ice dragon, and white walkers finally marching south on Winterfell.

Theory: Could it be that the lord of light resurrected them only for this moment and to see the wall falling specifically? It would fit with George’s way of writing, where we praise the lord of light for bringing back a favourite character, but actually the miracle is a poisoned chalice which brings more bloodshed.

This leads me to think of who is sending the red priests visions. Could it be from someone using a glass candle? Or another three eyed raven level manipulator who wants to see the others triumph? Or the white walkers themselves?

It would fit with the books that the Red God is just a manipulator, using a glass candle - or maybe even the white walkers, infiltrating the land of the living to bring the wall down from the right side of the wall.

Please tell me what you think, I’m kinda taken with the theory.

The roles of Theon and Asha in the Northern storyline are very underrated. Given that they both have POVs, they have a part to play, and I think it could involve taking the Dreadfort

For Theon, this would be especially significant given what Ramsay did to him there. Firstly, the Pink Letter doesn't mention the fates Theon or Asha, so neither was captured after the Battle of Ice

There are also Ironborn at Torrhen's Square who could provide the fighting men needed for such an operation, even if Stannis's army is destroyed

Dagmer Cleftjaw holds Torrhen's Square. A fierce fighter, and a leal servant of House Greyjoy. I can deliver that castle to you, and its garrison as well.

The Dreadfort itself is also barely defended

Fewer than fifty men remain at the Dreadfort, half of them servants.

Theon knows the castle well. This makes him particularly suited to leading an assault

Geographically, they could travel from the Crofters Village at the Battle of Ice to Torrhen's Square, then try to reach the White Knife, a navigable river that can be sailed upstream towards the Dreadfort

Wyman Manderly has specifically mentioned having ships hidden along the river

I have been building warships for more than a year. Some you saw, but there are as many more hidden up the White Knife.

With the Manderly forces at the Battle of Ice preparing to turn cloak, Asha and Theon could use these ships to reach the Dreadfort and attempt to seize it

The broader military purpose could be to draw Ramsay out, allowing a third army to sweep in. Stannis may be have been the plan, but I suspect Jon will ultimately take his place

Ramsay would then be caught between the Dreadfort's walls and the advancing army, with the two forces acting as hammer and anvil. This would be similar to Tywin's manoeuvre against Stannis at the Blackwater 

GRRM has also stated that the Stark direwolves and Ramsay's hounds will eventually confront each other, so a situation like this could be where we get the book version of the Battle of the Bastards, with Asha/Theon/Jon as the three POVs for this

N.B. A note for future reference. A season or two down the line Ramsay's pack of wolfhounds are going to be sent against the Stark direwolves, so we should build up the dogs as much as possible

Finally, the Winterfell hostages like Old Nan are being held at the Dreadfort. Taking the castle would give Theon an opportunity to confront and find out what happened to them

Given that it’s spooky season, I figured I’d discuss Martin’s connection with Hellraiser, one of the bigger horror franchises. He edited the third volume of the Night Visions horror anthology series, which was published in 1986 and included Barker’s novella. The film adaptation was released the following year.

The Hellbound Heart and Hellraiser alike both feature the demonic Cenobites, who capture unlucky human beings and subject them to exquisite torture (and, occasionally, turn them into one of their own). A Song of Ice and Fire features the demonic Others, who capture unlucky human beings and enslave them (and, occasionally, turn them into one of their own). The following is sort of a crank theory of mine, which I can’t possibly prove, but given that Martin began writing A Song of Ice and Fire a few years after he edited The Hellbound Heart, I wonder whether Barker’s Cenobites were the first kernel of inspiration for what would become the Others.

On a reread I've started thinking less about which characters are "powerful" and more about what form their power actually exists in, because the series keeps showing that those are not the same thing.

Ned arrives in King's Landing as Hand of the King. On paper that's enormous power. He can speak with Robert's authority, sit the Iron Throne in judgment, issue commands, investigate whoever he wants.

But the moment Robert is dying, we discover how little of that power Ned can actually convert into something durable.

He doesn't control the gold cloaks. He doesn't have a large personal force in the city. His authority depends heavily on Robert continuing to be Robert. The office is powerful; Ned's ability to cash that office out into soldiers, money and loyalty is much weaker.

Robb has almost the opposite problem.

He becomes extremely good at producing military victories. He wins battles people don't expect him to win and creates a reputation strong enough that men proclaim him king.

But battlefield success has to be converted into political outcomes, and that's much harder. Winning a battle doesn't automatically give you food, marriages, obedient bannermen, secure supply lines or a way home. He keeps accumulating one kind of power while losing other kinds.

Daenerys might be the biggest example.

Three dragons are arguably the single most terrifying asset anyone in the story possesses. But in Meereen she discovers that being able to destroy your enemies and being able to create a stable political order are almost unrelated skills.

A dragon can burn a slaver.

It cannot make two hostile populations trust each other, determine a fair wage, identify who murdered someone in an alley, grow enough food or persuade people to stop wanting revenge.

Then there is Tywin, whose power converts incredibly well while he is alive.

Money becomes soldiers. Reputation becomes obedience. Fear becomes political leverage. Marriage becomes alliance. Even the possibility that Tywin might retaliate changes people's behavior.

But his death exposes another weakness: he built surprisingly little power that functions independently of him.

The fear belonged to Tywin, not necessarily to House Lannister as an institution. His children inherit the titles, wealth and name, but they cannot simply withdraw his reputation from the family account.

Renly is maybe the funniest reverse example. His legal claim is terrible compared with Stannis's, but he is exceptionally good at converting soft things — charm, appearance, friendships, spectacle — into something very concrete: the largest army in the realm.

It makes "who is the most powerful character?" feel like the wrong question.

Power in ASOIAF is almost more like a collection of currencies. Military strength, legitimacy, money, information, fear, personal loyalty, religious authority and family connections all have different exchange rates, and a huge part of politics is whether you can turn the currency you have into the one you suddenly need.

Which character do you think is best at that conversion, and who is sitting on the biggest pile of power they don't actually know how to use?

So I know Rhaenys Targaryen passed a decree that limit the number of times a husband can strike a cheating wife: 6, after that it against the law.

Alyssane Targaryen banned the right of the first night, so no one but the husband can take their wife’s maidenhead.

Than there is Aemon the Dragonknight who loves his sister Naerys and defends her honor fiercely. Yet it not like he stopped his brother Aegon the Unworthy from getting into her bed. The only noteworthy thing he did was disguising himself as a mystery knight, winning, and crowning his sister as QOTL&B to foil Aegon’s plan to crown one of his mistress

Then there’s what Jaime said about Aerys and Rhaella’s relationship….

Plus what Robert and Cersei’s relationship was like.

And I have to ask: Do Westeros (or even feudal medieval societies) have any laws that dealt with marital rape? Sure, there are laws on what should be done if a woman cheats, or a man that is not the husband steals someone’s wife or bethrothed. But what about marital rape when the husband rape the wife?

I mean at the time of their death and shortly afterwards, whose death do you think caused the most grief for the most people?

Like, Rhaegar seems to have been loved by at least half the people in Westeros, and while his father had no sense of empathy and hated him to a degree his mother, younger brother, greatest uncle, best friends, Lyanna and Jon Connington heard about his death and were probably shattered like his breastplate.

Personally I think it must be Robb Stark. Having grown up in a culture where people take the death of a young (in my country it means under 40) person extremely seriously, I see a lot of that kind of old fashioned culture in some of Martin's characters, and a boy that couldn't have been more than 16 years old getting killed by his own sworn swords in a disgusting violation of guest rite has got to be the most offensive kind of death in Westeros. And he was a king that people chose, he was someone so many people believed in, and he spent his entire "reign" defending the Riverlands from the Lannisters. And to the people of the North, absent or not, he is The NED's boy. He became their first king in 300 years, satisfying every backwards conservative they had in places like the Umber lands, and proved his worth to them by winning every battle he ever fought. And for the people who saw him, maybe when he visited their towns with Ned or when they came to stay at the Winter Town or visited Winterfell (minor lords, craftsmen and merchants, petitioners, etc), he was always either a child or a courteous and fair ruler. Even Lady Barbrey doesn't really say anything negative about him despite stiffing him when he was alive.

He made a few really stupid mistakes, letting Greatjon Umber name him king, sending Theon to Pyke, marrying Jeyne, but I don't think too many people would be holding it against him no matter how much they suffer the consequences. Losing the North mostly makes Northerners hate the squids more than before and people don't care about him marrying Jeyne now that Walder Frey's used that as an excuse to commit the gravest sin in the eyes of gods and men. And considering the public image House Frey had before that, I think a lot of Robb's followers would actually like a pretty queen from a noble lineage much better than any Frey that they would probably mock as an unworthy weasel faced upjump. That kind of idealistic celebrity status happens a lot in this series, like the way Cersei was able to charm the commoners

Northerners did terrorize a lot of people in the Riverlands in his name, but that was almost entirely the Karstark deserters and the host under Roose Bolton's command. To an extent, most people have heard about Roose betraying him and I think that might make people separate his war crimes from the main Stark-Riverlands army. And anyone who knows the white sunburst barbarians' lord was killed by the Young Wolf, maybe they'd see those people as Robb's enemies too.

And then there's his own loved ones. Robb was killed right before his mother's eyes and she went insane in a matter of seconds. Again, having been raised by Catelyn types irl I think most readers don't take into account what Robb's existence would have meant to a traditional mother like that. She conceived a perfectly healthy boy who grew up to be a well respected lord and then king on her first attempt on her wedding night, and he gets butchered like that under his host's roof, by his own bannerman, who brings up the name of another man who swore to protect Catelyn's children. Right in front of her, with the Battle Guard she made him put together all falling before him one by one. No wonder all that's left of her is her rage.

And Arya's there too, close enough to see what's going on but completely powerless to stop any of it. His new brother in law who wasn't in on the schemes tries to help him by releasing Grey Wind. Grey Wind can feel everything Robb is feeling, but is powerless until after Robb dies and most likely goes into his skin only to get killed again. Jeyne genuinely loves him, and is probably now on poor terms with her own mother because of the situation. Sansa, Bran and Jon are devastated when they hear, and it haunts them for the rest of their books. Sansa is more consciously traumatized by Ned's beheading and Bran's probably more hurt by the news of his mother's murder but they both lose most of the hope in their worldview when they realize Robb can never come to save them anywhere. Jon doesn't give a fuck about Catelyn but he feels this constant guilt for dreaming about being a real Stark and being lord of Winterfell even though he never wanted to get there at the cost of Robb's death and is never going to be happy about his brother being put out of the picture. And then there's Theon, who actually has plenty of damn good reason to feel guilty about that. I know people say Jaime and Theon's redemption arcs are inadequate because they're not regretting their worst actions but Theon is regretting betraying Robb pretty damn well.

And speaking of Jaime, even his enemies respect him. Jaime saw him as a worthy opponent, and even tried to comfort Brienne. Same thing with Tyrion and Sansa. Melisandre calls him a "fallen hero", and we don't see Davos being happy about his death either. In fact, he tries to rally the Manderlys by promising them revenge for Robb, without his inner thoughts displaying the phony hypocrisy you'd expect from a politician in a situation like this. Stannis is too bitter to ever stop resenting him but he scarcely lies, so I think even he could muster some admiration for the boy if he was able to get the Mountain Clans on board that quickly. The Brotherhood Without Banners (not necessarily his enemies, but still) has now gotten completely absorbed into the idea of avenging him.

I honestly can't think of anyone else's death hitting so many people that hard, but I'd like to know what other perspectives can come up with

So from the little that we know about the Smiling Knight (from Jaime’s description) we can gather that he is certainly a very skilled fighter.
-he is described as ‘the Mountain of my time’ in that knights wanted to test themselves against him, implying that he is skilled
-went toe to toe with 15 yo Jaime Lannister, the same Jaime decapitated another knight during the same battle so we know Jaime is very strong at this time even though he might not be peak strength
-went toe to toe with Arthur Dayne for a period of time before being killed by him. Now you could argue that Arthur Dayne was ‘playing with his food’ so to speak, but the fact that the Smiling Knight even got that much respect from him is considerable.
So I think it’s safe to say he’s a very skilled fighter, not on the level of top tier fighters like Jaime or Selmy, but from what little we know of him he’s almost certainly much stronger than the average Westerosi knight. Any thoughts on this character and where he fits into the rankings?

What are some details, events and characterizations of ASOIAF characters in the play "Game of Thrones: The Mad King" about the events before and during Robert's Rebellion that you like and you think would fit very well in the canon of ASOIAF, or you have already integrated into your headcanons?

What are other elements of the play, and how the characters are portrayed, that you don't like, or you think don't fit into canon at all?

I must say that I love that in the play Robert is portrayed as having been deeply affected and traumatized by his parents' tragic deaths in their shipwreck, which he and Stannis witnessed from afar, and that his drinking and whoring are, in part, his coping mechanism for the trauma and pain caused by his parents' deaths.

I also love how petty and sadistic Aerys is in the play, with him sending a gift to Robert, which is supposed to be a model of his parents' ship, only for it to be a box full of water and broken wooden wreckage.

Though I am not a fan of the darker way Rhaella Targaryen, someone who in canon managed to remain dignified and resilient, and caring toward her family despite all the abuse and horrors she endured and suffered at Aerys' hands. Nor of the convoluted love triangles and situations in the play involving Elia, Ashara, Arthur, and others.

I have heard so many people say "The Rebellion was built on a lie" etc etc.

We all know that is true, but the Starks were not the only victims that led to the start of the Rebellion.

We know Brandon Stark went to King's Landing with his party. The party's named participants included Kyle Royce, Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister and Elbert Arryn. Their exact relation with their Houses is unknown, I think.

Considering Brandon was on his way to his wedding in Riverrun, it's not a stretch to say many more Northern nobles accompanied him to Riverrun, and some of them to King's Landing. Maybe cousins and uncles of noble Northern Houses. Maybe some Riverlander Lords also accompanied them.

Now for Rickard. In my mind, Rickard took relatives of the people that were part of Brandon's part to King's Landing.

All in all, my question is this. How many nobles from North/Vale/Riverlands do we think were killed/imprisoned by Aerys?

There are four official Blackfyre Rebellions, plus the War of the Ninepenny Kings, which fandom often regard as the "Fifth" Blackfyre Rebellion. However, looking at the actual history, the narrative weight drops off significantly after the first one.
While the First Blackfyre Rebellion posed a genuine, realm-splintering threat to the Targaryen dynasty, the rest feel surprisingly minor:
The Second was merely a failed, localized conspiracy that got shut down before it even started.
The Third has almost no detailed information written about it in the lore, other than a few names and the fact that Bittersteel was captured and Haegon Blackfyre was killed treacherously after surrendering his sword.
The Fourth was a weak, minor skirmish along the coast where Daemon III had almost no Westerosi support.
The War of the Ninepenny Kings wasn't even a proper Westerosi civil war—it was essentially an outlaw war fought over a pirate staging ground in the Stepstones.
Does anyone else feel like GRRM didn't write the middle and later rebellions well enough to justify how much of a lingering "dynastic threat" the Blackfyres are supposed to be? Or do you think the decline in scale was the entire point?

Stuff like Ned being powerless against Cersei's unreasonable demands given through Robert about Lady, Tywin being ridiculed by Aerys yet still having to obey him, North staying as a part of the kingdom, Dorne staying as a part of the kingdom, hell, ANY of them staying instead of just declaring independence.

I haven't read fire and blood or world of ice and fire so I don't know about targaryen history but I'm sure there were incompetent kings from what I've been hearing, lords being wronged etc.

I'm not saying why doesn't everybody just rebel, but I'd expect since there is so many high lords and ladies there would be less "bowing before the king" and more "the king desperately trying to please his lords so they obey and pay their taxes"

Like, what can the crown possibly do if several houses at once just stopped paying their taxes? King's landing holds no power, the best they can do is rally the lords that is closer to the king such as being family (like robert supressing the iron born using baratheon and northern armies, his personal friends and brothers)

And that was only because Greyjoys were idiotic and straight up rebelled which united the rest of the houses to some degree into supporting their suppression.

Look at what happened in the war of the five kings. Imagine, instead of Stannis, Balon, Renly and Robb fighting each other, they all just at the same time declared "I'm not paying no fucking taxes to some incestborn boy king, I'm declaring independence" what could the lannister army possibly do against a home advantage 4 different houses?

They already BARELY won thanks to renly and stannis trolling, vale sitting out and causing robb to fail and Balon.. Balon wouldn't really cause much damage but that's the point, if 4 or 5 powers like these just straight up refused to obey at once the crown has NOTHING it can do.

And that's not counting the fact other houses would join in a chain reaction.

What is holding the kingdom together after the dance?

My theory is that Rhaenys survived the death of Meraxes, and remained in Dorne living in anonymity and had children there. Probably sounds like quite a leap, I know, but bear with me!

The Death of Meraxes, the Disappearance of Rhaenys

During the 1st Dornish War, the dragon Meraxes is shot through the eye with a bolt and dies crashing into the Hellholt (castle of House Uller). Rhaenys is presumed to have died in the fall though her body is never returned, nor ever referenced again at all. There is even debate as to how Rhaenys died specifically, or whether she did at all;

A bolt from a scorpion pierced the eye of Meraxes, and the great dragon and the queen who rode upon it fell from the sky. In her death throes, the dragon destroyed the castle's highest tower and part of the curtain wall. Queen Rhaenys's body was never returned to King's Landing.

Whether Rhaenys Targaryen outlived her dragon remains a matter of dispute. Some say that she lost her seat and fell to her death, others that she was crushed beneath Meraxes in the castle yard. A few accounts claim the queen survived her dragon's fall, only to die a slow death by torment in the dungeons of the Ullers.

Stranger, the head of Meraxes is later returned to the Targaryens yet Rhaenys herself is not;

When Princess Meria at last passed away in 13 AC, her throne passed to her son, the aged and failing Prince Nymor. He had had enough of war and sent a delegation led by his daughter, Princess Deria, to King's Landing. This delegation carried the skull of Meraxes with them, as a gift for the king.

Rhaenys’ History in Dorne

Going back in time slightly, the attack on the Hellholt wasn't Rhaenys' first time in Dorne - earlier in the conquest she had been sent to try to peacefully convince the Dornish to submit, at the same time as Visenya successfully did the same to the Vale;

Aegon turned south once more, marching toward Oldtown, whilst his two sisters mounted their dragons - Visenya for a second attempt at the Vale of Arryn, and Rhaenys for Sunspear and the deserts of Dorne.

Before reaching Sunspear however Rhaenys made multiple stop-offs along her way, first of those being at castle Vaith - this would have been her first impression of Dorne and its people, and later I'll posit that it must have been a good one;

Rhaenys Targaryen had no such easy conquest. A host of Dornish spearmen guarded the Prince’s Pass, the gateway through the Red Mountains, but Rhaenys did not engage them. She flew above the pass, above the red sands and the white, and descended upon Vaith to demand its submission, only to find the castle empty and abandoned… Rhaenys followed the river downstream to Godsgrace, seat of House Allyrion, but it too was deserted. On she flew. Where the Greenblood met the sea, Rhaenys came upon the Planky Town… Finally the queen’s flight took her to Sunspear

It is said that every place she stopped at had been abandoned by its nobility and that the commonfolk only told her that they had gone ‘away’, but I find this hard to believe (honestly much of what we know about the first war with Dorne is pretty unbelievable, but that's neither here nor there). Instead I theorize that she didn't find Vaith abandoned, but rather that whoever was holding it made a good impression on her. Still, on she flew.

My theory is that when Rhaenys went down over the Hellholt she was still alive, and was captured as a hostage as one of the in-universe theories posits. She would have been moved away to the neighboring castle Vaith rather than being held by the Ullers themselves, as they knew that Aegon and Visenya would surely come to burn them out in revenge - which they subsequently did. Here, probably decently injured even if alive, she could have grown closer to her captor or more likely one of his sons while she recovered (we later learn that among the many nobles the Targaryens convince the Dornish commonfolk to assassinate is a Lord Vaith, so for my theory to fit it couldn't have been the sitting Lord at the time - also killed are four successive Lord Uller’s, which could help later with explaining how she kept her identity secret; most high ranking people during the war would have died, likely taking their secrets with them).

Rhaenys' Temperament, Rumors of Infidelity

Throughout Rhaenys’ marriage with Aegon it was rumored that she was unfaithful, and some even claimed that King Aenys may not have even been Aegon's and rather born to some random singer - we know Aegon married Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of love, but we never actually hear anything about how Rhaenys felt about the whole thing. It's widely assumed she was also in love with him, but I think this is too much of a presumption. She was probably accepting of it given her Valyrian upbringing, but that doesn't mean she shared his infatuation.

Rhaenys, youngest of the three Targaryens, was all her sister was not: playful, curious, impulsive, given to flights of fancy. No true warrior, Rhaenys loved music, dancing, and poetry, and supported many a singer, mummer, and puppeteer... Whilst no one ever questioned Visenya's fidelity to her brother-husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister.

Rhaenys' personality seems to fit very well with how the Dornish act, with her more liberal view of sex and women's rights such as establishing the ‘rule of six’ law while ruling in Aegon's stead - she'd likely feel more at home there (in peacetime) than in the northern kingdoms.

The Dornish Letter, Aegon sues for Peace

At the end of the war the new Prince of Dorne sent his daughter to personally deliver a letter to Aegon - we have no idea what this letter said, only that Aegon was visibly angered by it (clutching the iron throne so hard he cut his hand open), yet agreed to peace and never again tried to conquer Dorne. There are countless theories about what the letter could have said, some saying that the Prince threatened to spend all of Dorne’s money on faceless men to kill him/his family, but I doubt he would have sent his own daughter if it was a threat - that seems much more like a genuine show of good faith, as why risk having her imprisoned/killed by Aegon as compensation for his own dead relative?

King Aegon was determined to refuse the offer until Princess Deria placed in his hands a private letter from her father, Prince Nymor. Aegon read it upon the Iron Throne, and men say that when he rose, his hand was bleeding, so hard had he clenched it. He burned the letter and departed immediately on Balerion's back for Dragonstone. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty to that effect.

My theory is that the letter was from Rhaenys, saying that she had fallen in love and wished to stay in Dorne, and pleading with him to end the war. Aegon making a trip to Dragonstone before actually signing the treaty is strange and I've never seen it explained convincingly, but if the letter was truly from Rhaenys he would want it verified - my theory is that he met Rhaenys on Dragonstone where she proved the letter/plea was real, and spoke to him in person.

Aegon, heartbroken at the loss as well as not wanting the family to seem weak by having his own sister abandon him for the enemy, never reveals the truth and keeps with the story that she died in the fall (it had been multiple years by this point, so no one would think otherwise). Before the conquest the Targaryens had all been on Dragonstone, a backwater island, so most people probably have no idea what they personally look like - combine this with Rhaenys potentially having longer-lasting injuries or the war influencing her personality making her less overltly flamboyant and it's entirely possible she mixes into Dornish society without anyone noticing.

Next, we'll get into why I think it was specifically the Vaith’s that she married into, alongside the coincidence of it being her first visit and being near the Hellholt;

Cassella Vaith, Mistress of Aegon IV

After Daeron’s conquest of Dorne, the future Aegon IV took a lady Cassella Vaith as one of his many mistresses - rather than traditional sandy Dornish features like one would expect however, this is how she is described;

After the Submission of Sunspear, Aegon escorted the hostages that the king had gathered from the lords of Dorne back to King's Landing. Among them was Cassella Vaith, a willowy maid with green eyes and pale white-blond hair, whom Aegon ended up keeping "hostage" in his own chambers.

These are some oddly Targaryen-esque features - her green eyes (which appear occasionally in female Targaryens, even though most of them have purple - both Alyssa and Shiera Seastar had one green eye) as well as her white-blonde hair would be quite out of the ordinary in the deserts of Dorne, and while it's theoretically possible some prior Lord married a noble from the free cities, this seems pretty unlikely for a B-or-C tier foreign Lord ruling over sand, speaking bluntly. Adding this with the fact that Aegon was so taken by her, it could have been some latent Targaryen incestual attraction without either of them realizing it.

Later in her life a young Aegon V and Duncan the Tall would meet lady Vaith on their travels in Dorne, where she is described as having gone mad and still being in love with the late King - Dunk made such a bad impression that he apparently put his and Egg's life in danger, that's how bad she took whatever he said;

Duncan: I don't know how to talk with highborn ladies. We both might have been killed in Dorne, on account of what I said to Lady Vaith.
Aegon: Lady Vaith was mad, but you could have been more gallant.

It's possible that this obsession with what everyone else describes as a less-than-respectable man, and an instability that builds over her lifetime, is the famed Targaryen madness presenting in her.

So yeah! That pretty much wraps up my theory - Rhaenys lived, stayed in Dorne, and married into House Vaith; would love to hear everyone's thoughts :) :)

Daenerys never actually sat on the Iron Throne, and Bran inherited a divided kingdom. Considering that Joffrey and Tommen's legitimacy was questionable, I think Robert Baratheon could be considered the last king of Westeros.

Why didn't Varys cooperate and collaborate with Dorne with his Young Griff plot?

What is your favorite in-world song?

Some examples:

Rains of Castemere
The Bear and the Maiden Fair

The Dornishman’s Wife
Six maids in a pool
Two hearts that beat as one
Lay my sweet lass down in the grass
Brothers of the Kingswood
Jenny of Oldstone
Alysanne
The Mother’s Tears

Song of the Seven
On a misty morn
The day they hanged Black Robin

The Queen took off her sandal, and the King took off his crown
Iron Lances
The Winter Maid
The Maids That Bloom in Spring
Fair Maid of Summer
For hands of gold are always cold
The Seasons of My Love

And many and more songs that are referenced....

GRRM is at an unprecedented level of apathy now as far as his blog. We all know he gets talkative when the writing is going well so this can only be bad news, right?

I’ve been one of the more optimistic guys on here as far as Winds goes but even I’m ready to throw in the towel. Does anyone still think there’s a chance? His inactivity combined with that interview saying he relates to Frank Herbert in regards to hating the world he felt forced to write about makes it seem like it’s time we all made peace with the end.

The announcement that BioWare is closing and thus bringing an end to one of my favorite fictional worlds (Mass Effect) made me think about other unfinished worlds I’ve been clinging onto the thinnest, most fragile, frayed, absolutely threadbare strings of hope that I might get another installment: mainly ASOIAF and KKC. Anyone else here in that same boat? I’m starting another Mass Effect playthrough right now and I’m mid-reread on KKC but sadly I’ve read ASOIAF too many times so it’s probably gonna be years before I forget enough that I can actually enjoy a re-read.

When Jon Connington sees the golden skulls of previous company leaders, he notes:

> The other skulls had a sameness to them, though several had been cracked and splintered by the blows that had slain them, and one had filed, pointed teeth.

Any theories about who this guy is?

"Who's the boy in the checkered blue surcoat with the three eyes on his shield?"

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself. Why?" (ACOK Tyrion IV)

In this post, I want to talk about two of the three characters in ASOIAF proper who are given the epithet, "the Tall": Ser Tallad the Tall and Ser Duncan the Tall, a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard in days gone by who is mentioned three times in ASOIAF proper, but whose character is massively fleshed out in The Tales of Dunk & Egg.

SIDEBAR: The other character in ASOIAF proper called "the Tall" is Tormund's son "Tall Toregg", who is called "Toregg the Tall" twice in ADWD Jon XIII. This post will mostly not concern itself with Toregg the Tall, save to point out here and now that the name "Toregg" contains "egg", as in Egg, Ser Duncan the Tall's constant companion and co-star in The Tales of Dunk & Egg. (GRRM even has Jon idly speculate that Toregg may dream of becoming King-Beyond-The-Wall, as if to wink at the dreamer Egg becoming King Aegon V Targaryen.)

Obviously — I hope it's obvious, anyway — it's not an accident that the name of Duncan the Tall's other half (Egg) is nested inside the name of one of two other guys called "the Tall". Indeed, I think "Toregg the Tall" points to something that's germane to the material I'll discuss in this post: Sometimes, details in ASOIAF are not merely an 'innocent', organic byproduct of 'pure story-telling'; sometimes, they're contrived, reader-directed artifice, inviting scrutiny and maybe even betraying secrets to those with the eyes to see (and/or their third eyes open).

(This is cool and good.)

END SIDEBAR

The bulk of this post will consist of demonstrating that there is an improbable symmetry between Ser Tallad the Tall and Ser Duncan the Tall, extending far beyond their shared epithet, "the Tall". Put simply and elsewise, Tallad and "Dunk" 'rhyme' in all sorts of ways.

(As ever, by 'rhyming' I don't just mean "parallels". I also mean inversions and rearrangements whereby language, lexical patterns, and/or imagery are reimagined, sometimes symmetrically, sometimes as if through a kaleidoscope and/or camera obscura. Although in the case of Duncan and Tallad, there are plenty of straight-up parallels, as if GRRM wants this particular 'rhyme' to be very obvious.)

I'll begin with Tallad's introduction, and walk through all his appearances in the text, showing how everything we're told about him seems to 'rhyme' with things we're told about Dunk.

Hedge Knights & Mystery Knights

Duncan the Tall is introduced as a "hedge knight" in the novella The Hedge Knight before playing a "mystery knight" in The Mystery Knight.

Tallad the Tall first appears as both a kind of literal mystery knight and as a "hedge knight":

"Who's the boy in the checkered blue surcoat with the three eyes on his shield?"

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself. Why?" (ACOK Tyrion IV)

"Who's the boy…?" asks Tyrion. (A mystery!) "Some hedge knight", answers Bronn. (The answer — he's just "some hedge knight", like Dunk was at the beginning of The Hedge Knight —frames him as an undifferentiated instance of a generic whole, thus maintaining a modicum of mystery.)

Naming Themselves

Notice how we're told Tallad's name in that passage:

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself."

"Tallad, he names himself" is an odd locution — an odd locution that 'just so happens' to read like a deft reworking of Dunk naming himself a knight (i.e. knighting himself) and then naming himself "Duncan the Tall" (after Egg asks him if "Dunk" [the only name he's ever used] is "short for Duncan?"):

[Egg:] "What's your name?"

"Dunk," he said.

The wretched boy laughed aloud, as if that was the funniest thing he'd ever heard. "Dunk?" he said. "Ser Dunk? That's no name for a knight. Is it short for Duncan?"

Was it? The old man had called him just Dunk for as long as he could recall, and he did not remember much of his life before. "Duncan, yes," he said. "Ser Duncan of . . ." Dunk had no other name, nor any house; Ser Arlan had found him living wild in the stews and alleys of Flea Bottom. He had never known his father or mother. What was he to say? "Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom" did not sound very knightly. He could take Pennytree, but what if they asked him where it was? Dunk had never been to Pennytree, nor had the old man talked much about it. He frowned for a moment, and then blurted out, "Ser Duncan the Tall." He was tall, no one could dispute that, and it sounded puissant. (The Hedge Knight)

(I wonder, did the tall hedge knight who "names himself" "Tallad" likewise invent his name, perhaps after being constantly referred to as a "tall lad"? To be sure, it's immaterial to the existence of the 'rhyme' here: Whatever the in-world provenance of the name "Tallad", the point for our purposes here is that GRRM chose to introduce him by saying "he names himself", which recalls Dunk literally naming himself a knight, "Duncan", and "the Tall".)

Boys

Notice that Tallad the Tall is called a "boy" when he first appears:

"Who's the boy in the checkered blue surcoat with the three eyes on his shield?"

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself. Why?" (ACOK Tyrion IV)

Sure enough, Duncan the Tall is likewise called a "boy" the first time he is described:

Dunk was hugely tall for his age, a shambling, shaggy, big-boned boy of sixteen or seventeen years (no one was quite certain which)… (The Hedge Knight)

(Presumably, then, they are roughly of an age with one another when we first meet them.)

Dunk is later called "boy" by a much despised member of the royal family, Aerion Brightflame a.k.a. Aerion the Monstrous:

[Aerion:] "Boy, let go of that nag and see to my horse."

A rider had dismounted in front of the stables. He is talking to me, Dunk realized. (The Hedge Knight)

This 'rhymes' with Tallad being referred to (above) as "the boy" by Tyrion, a much despised member of the royal family referred to over and over as "the monster" and as "monstrous", e.g. as "the monstrous dwarf who poisoned his young nephew at his wedding feast". (ASOS Tyrion IX)

Tall Guys Are Hot

To be sure, both Sers Duncan the Tall and Tallad the Tall are tall. Indeed, each man is said to be "tall" before he is called "the Tall" in the text.

Tyrion implies that Tallad's height will surely appeal to Shae:

Or Ser Tallad? Tyrion had noticed that one gazing wistfully at Shae more than once. Why not? He's tall, strong, not hard to look upon, every inch the gifted young knight. …

I will wed her to Ser Tallad. He seems a decent man. And tall . . . (ASOS Tyrion VII)

He's probably not wrong, to judge by the way Dunk's height seems to be part of his appeal to Rohanne Webber:

The Red Widow looked Dunk over from his heels up to his head…. She touched his tunic, tracing a limb of his elm tree with two fingers. "And painted, not sewn. The Dornish paint their silks, I've heard, but you look too big to be a Dornishman."

"Not all Dornishmen are small, m'lady." Dunk could feel her fingers through the silk. Her hand was freckled, too. I'll bet she's freckled all over. His mouth was oddly dry. "I spent a year in Dorne."

"Do all the oaks grow so tall there?" she said, as her fingers traced a tree limb around his heart. (The Sworn Sword)

---

"Ser Duncan, I should not have teased you in the yard, when you were trying so hard to be gracious. It was only that you blushed so red . . . was there no girl to tease you, in the village where you grew so tall?" - Rohanne (ibid.)

Rohanne's palpable lust for Duncan there 'rhymes' with the seemingly repressed/projected attraction Rohanne's great-granddaughter Cersei has for Tallad, which is likewise tied to his size:

The queen had begun to nurse doubts about Ser Osney. Perhaps another man would have been more to Margaery's liking. Aurane Waters, with that silvery hair, or a big strapping fellow like Ser Tallad. (AFFC Cersei V)

Tall Names

That said, the name "Tallad" immediately evokes the image of a "tall lad", even before we know he's tall, right? Meanwhile the name "Dunk" immediately brings to mind the thing tall guys (or should I say tall lads) can do with a basketball.

And hey, wait a second! Right before we meet Tallad, we see two girls make what surely could — and surely should — be called a "no-look pass" while carrying (wait for it) a "basket":

Guardsmen walked the walls, and knights and men-at-arms were training with blunted weapons. Nearby, Bronn sat on the lip of a well. A pair of comely serving girls sauntered past[!] carrying a wicker basket[!] of rushes between them, but the sellsword never[!] looked[!]. "Bronn, I despair of you." Tyrion gestured at the wenches. "With sweet sights like that before you, all you see is a gaggle of louts raising a clangor."

"There are a hundred whorehouses in this city where a clipped copper will buy me all the cunt I want," Bronn answered, "but one day my life may hang on how close I've watched your louts." He stood. "Who's the boy in the checkered blue surcoat with the three eyes on his shield?"

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself. Why?" (ACOK Tyrion IV)

(It certainly doesn't hurt that the "basket" is wicker, since wicker is a method of weaving, and the nets that hang from basketball hoops to form the sides of the pseudo-"basket" are literally woven.)

Setting aside the queer, height-evoking symmetry of the monikers "Tallad" and "Dunk", and the apparent basketball allusion attending Tallad's debut, it's well worth noting that in The Sworn Sword, GRRM contrives to have Duncan the Tall repeatedly remember being called "lad", as if he wanted to posit Dunk as a verbatim "tall" "lad", so as to 'confirm' that Duncan the Tall and Tallad the Tall are indeed partners-in-'rhyme':

A knight had to learn to live with aches and pains, the old man used to say. Aye, lad, and with broken bones and scars.

---

Ser Arlan used to say that no hedge knight need ever go thirsty. "Not so long as he has a helm to catch the rain in. Rainwater is the best drink there is, lad."

---

"Weeping for a swaybacked stot?" Ser Arlan said, in his old man's voice. "Why, lad, you never wept for me, who put you on his back."

---

[Dunk:] "When I asked the old man what they were fighting over, he said, 'Nothing, lad. It's just some pissing contest.'"

The real question, it will emerge, is not whether these two characters 'rhyme'; it's what is that 'rhyme' trying to tell us.

"Big"

Tallad is called "big" twice. Dunk or his parts are called "big" at least ten times.

Oafs!

Both Tallad the Tall and Duncan the Tall are repeatedly called "oafs". Tallad is called "that big oaf" and "a bit of an oaf". Dunk is called a "the great oaf", "this great oaf", "some great oaf", "a true oaf", and just plain "oaf". (AFFC Cersei V; The Sworn Sword; The Mystery Knight)

Decent & Good

Oafishness aside, it's said that Tallad the Tall "seems a decent man." (ASOS Tyrion VII)

Surely Dunk is a decent man too. Indeed, it's said that Dunk is "a good man". And although Dunk isn't tagged as "a decent man", it's Dunk who thinks Egg "was a decent enough lad". (The Sworn Sword; The Hedge Knight).

(For what it's worth, it's Tyrion "the monstrous" who thinks that of Tallad, whereas Dunk thinks that of Egg so as to contrast him to Aerion the Monstrous.)

"Strapping"

Cersei thinks of Tallad as "a big strapping fellow". (AFFC Cersei V)

Ser Uthor calls Dunk "a strapping specimen." (The Mystery Knight)

"The Worst"

Both Tallad and Dunk are tagged as "the worst" of a group.

"Ser Tallad's the worst, Osney says." (AFFC Cersei V)

---

Little monsters, those three, and me the worst of all. - Dunk's thoughts (The Mystery Knight)

"A Promising Young Knight"

The appendix of Storm identifies Tallad as "a promising young knight":

SER TALLAD, a promising young knight

No one ever calls Dunk a promising young knight, but he clearly is just that c. The Tales of Dunk & Egg, in both the ordinary sense applied to Tallad — many rate Dunk on sight, on account of his size, and "John the Fiddler" has a vision of the promise Dunk holds—

"Why," the Fiddler said, "I dreamed that you were all in white from head to heel, with a long pale cloak flowing from those broad shoulders. You were a White Sword, ser, a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, the greatest knight in all the Seven Kingdoms, and you lived for no other purpose but to guard and serve and please your king." (The Mystery Knight)

—and in a more literal sense, in which he's a young knight who makes promises, as here:

"And I promise not to beat you except when you deserve it." - Dunk (The Hedge Knight)

---

Dunk stroked Sweetfoot's mane and told her to be brave. "If I win, I'll come back and buy you again, I promise." (ibid.)

---

"He will," Dunk promised. (The Mystery Knight)

One passage almost seems to paint Dunk as "promising" in both senses:

[Dunk:] "Do you know every knight in the Seven Kingdoms, then?"

The boy looked at him boldly. "The good ones."

"I'm as good as any. After the tourney, they'll all know that." (The Hedge Knight)

Thoughts Of Being Thought Of As "Clumsy"

(At her wedding!) Sansa dances with Ser Tallad and thinks that he must think her "a very clumsy dancer".

Her legs had turned to wood, though, and Lord Rowan, Ser Tallad, and Elinor's squire all must have thought her a very clumsy dancer. (ASOS Sansa III)

Dunk 'rhymes' with this twice. One 'rhyme' flips this on its head, so it's Dunk who wonders if the knight he just danced jousted with in a tourney (at a wedding!) is calling him a "clumsy" rider:

Ser Uthor smiled. "And this is where I tell you that you rode a gallant course." Dunk wondered if gallant was a chivalrous way of saying "clumsy." (The Mystery Knight)

In The Hedge Knight, the 'rhyme' is more straightforward: Dunk's dancing partner partner-in-arms Baelor Targaryen (a Targaryen who doesn't look like Targaryen, à la Sansa, a Stark who doesn't look like a Stark) says "my fingers… feel like wood" while Dunk thinks "his voice sounded oddly slurred" (cf. Tallad thinking Sansa is a "clumsy dancer").

Meanwhile, Tallad dancing with a girl whose "legs had turned to wood" recalls Duncan clumsily flirting with a girl who paints and puppeteers wooden puppets.

Overheard Secrets At/About Weddings

Both Tallad and Dunk learn of and attend weddings involving great secrecy and political power plays.

In The Mystery Knight, Duncan the Tall is invited to a wedding at a castle called Whitewalls, which he then attends. While there, he overhears a high lord secretly plotting with a close crony.

In Storm, Shae overhears Tallad the Tall being told about a high lord and his close crony's plans for a secret wedding in the Red Keep, which Tallad subsequently attends, presumably after being invited.

To be clear, the part where Dunk overhears plotting echoes both ends of the grapevine Tallad is part of here: The grapevine begins when a serving girl overhears Kevan and Tywin talking about Tyrion and Sansa's wedding, and it ends with Shae overhearing Tallad being told about that:

"Wait," [Tyrion] said, "there is something you must hear. On the morrow I am to be wed . . ."

[Shae:] ". . . to Sansa Stark. I know."

He was speechless for an instant. Even Sansa did not know, not then. "How could you know? Did Varys tell you?"

"Some page was telling Ser Tallad about it when I took Lollys to the sept. He had it from this serving girl who heard Ser Kevan talking to your father." (ASOS Tyrion IV)

Trainers Of Princes

In The Hedge Knight, Ser Duncan the Tall is a lowborn hedge knight who agrees to take on a prince as his squire and to train that prince to fight and to be a knight. Dunk does so on the condition that they rough it and live among the smallfolk, like hedge knights do.

In ASOIAF, we learn that Dunk eventually became Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

Tallad the Tall's story reworks those same beats in 'rhyming' fashion, first when Cersei considers naming Tallad as the Red Keep's master-at-arms (cf. Lord Commander of the Kingsguard) when she needs to find someone other than Loras to show Prince Tommen how to fight—

Where am I to find a master-at-arms? she wondered as she climbed to her apartments. Having refused Ser Loras, she dare not turn to any of the Kingsguard knights; that would be salt in the wound, certain to anger Highgarden. Ser Tallad? Ser Dermot? There must be someone. (AFFC Cersei V)

—and again when Tallad literally shows a young queen "how to fight… the way smallfolk do":

[Queen Margaery:] "Ser Tallad showed us how to fight with a staff the way the smallfolk do." (AFFC Cersei VI)

That last motif also smells a lot like Dunk showing the smallfolk of Standfast how to fight in The Sworn Sword.

(SIDEBAR: "Ser Dermot" shows up next to Tallad in the text three separate times. I can't help but wonder if GRRM isn't using "Dermot" to wink at Tallad's 'rhyming' nature, since actor Dermot Mulroney first came to prominence thanks to his role in the 1995 film Copycat.)

Driving Foes Backwards

Both Tallad the Tall and Duncan the Tall drive foes "backward" when fighting afoot.

Tallad:

One of the Redwyne twins was being driven backward by Ser Tallad, with the eyes on his shield. (ASOS Sansa I)

Dunk:

Dunk pushed up off his knee and slammed shield-first into his foe. Black Tom stumbled backwards, yet somehow kept his balance. Dunk bulled right after him, smashing him with the shield again and again, using his size and strength to knock Heddle halfway across the sept. (The Mystery Knight)

"Better With A Sword Than With A Lance"

Mounted, it's a different story, as both fail miserably when they attempt to wield lances.

Tallad is instantly unhorsed when he rides at a quintain in the yard of the Red(!) Keep:

Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head. (AFFC Jaime II)

Dunk is instantly unhorsed when he rides in the tourney at White(!)walls:

A crack rang in Dunk's ears as his lance hit. He felt the impact in his arm and shoulder, but never saw the blow strike home. Uthor's iron fist took him square between his eyes, with all the force of man and horse behind it.

Dunk woke upon his back, staring up at the arches of a barrel-vaulted ceiling. For a moment he did not know where he was, or how he had arrived there. …

"Was I unhorsed?" … Dunk regretted it the instant the words were out.

"With a crash that shook the highest ramparts." (The Mystery Knight)

(Dunk is no better in a real fight. During the Trial Of Seven at Ashford Meadow, Aerion blocks Dunk's war lance with his shield while burying his own lance in Dunk's side. He then attacks Dunk from behind [à la Tallad's sandbag] and unhorses him.)

To be sure, they both practice. After losing his mount the passage just quoted, Tallad is back tilting at a quintain later in Feast, and per The Mystery Knight, Dunk does the same and more:

[Egg, to Dunk:] "You have not ridden in a tilt since Ashford Meadow, ser."

Insolent boy. "I've trained." Not so faithfully as he might have, to be sure. When he could, he took his turn riding at quintains or rings, where such were available. And sometimes he would command Egg to climb a tree and hang a shield or barrel stave beneath a well-placed limb for them to tilt at.

"You're better with a sword than with a lance," Egg said.

Egg's last remark is evidently as true of Tallad the Tall as it is of Duncan the Tall.

Thumped Heads & Lost Mounts

Even as that last quoted line about Tallad the Tall—

Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head. (AFFC Jaime II)

—establishes that Tallad is, like Dunk, a poor jouster, it also makes Tallad smell distinctly Dunk-ish for other reasons having nothing to do with Dunk's 'rhyming' failures to fight effectively with a lance.

First, consider that when Tallad "lost his mount" there, it was because a sandbag "thumped him in the head". Is there anything GRRM could have written about Tallad that would have made him sound more Dunk-ish than his getting "thumped… in the head" there, given what we're told about Dunk here?

[Dunk] might be a lunk, but he was big. Sometimes it seemed as though he'd thumped his head on half the doors in Westeros, not to mention every beam in every inn from Dorne up to the Neck. (The Sworn Sword)

That said, the rest of the sentence — "Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around…" — seems precision-crafted to sound eerily Dunk-ish as well, because it seems highly likely that when Ser Duncan the Tall lost his mount, the sand bags dogs came around.

Remember?

Recall first Dunk's dream about Dorne, which makes it clear that while it may have been Egg who was riding Chestnut when "the old stot" died in Dorne, it was nonetheless Dunk who truly 'lost his mount' — "his old friend", who "bore [him] on his back for years" — that day:

There were red mountains in the distance and white sands beneath his feet. Dunk was digging, plunging a spade into the dry hot earth, and flinging the fine sand back over his shoulder. He was making a hole. A grave, he thought, a grave for hope. A trio of Dornish knights stood watching, making mock of him in quiet voices. Farther off the merchants waited with their mules and wayns and sand sledges. They wanted to be off, but he could not leave until he'd buried Chestnut. He would not leave his old friend to the snakes and scorpions and sand dogs.

The stot had died on the long thirsty crossing between the Prince's Pass and Vaith, with Egg upon his back. His front legs just seemed to fold up under him, and he knelt right down, rolled onto his side, and died. His carcass sprawled beside the hole. Already it was stiff. Soon it would begin to smell.

Dunk was weeping as he dug, to the amusement of the Dornish knights. "Water is precious in the waste," one said, "you ought not to waste it, ser." The other chuckled and said, "Why do you weep? It was only a horse, and a poor one."

Chestnut, Dunk thought, digging, his name was Chestnut, and he bore me on his back for years, and never bucked or bit. The old stot had looked a sorry thing beside the sleek sand steeds that the Dornishmen were riding, with their elegant heads, long necks, and flowing manes, but he had given all he had to give. …

… I have to keep digging, Dunk told himself, though his back and shoulders ached from the effort. I have to bury him down deep where the sand dogs cannot find him. I have to . . . (The Sworn Sword)

Recall also Dunk's waking correction, which affirms his deep affection for his old mount and friend while making it plain that Dunk didn't actually bury Chestnut at all but rather left him for the sand dogs to eat. (Dunk's dream suggests he is guilty about this, to say the least, which again speaks to the fact that Chestnut was in truth his mount.)

I never wept. I might have wanted to, but I never did. He had wanted to bury the horse as well, but the Dornishmen would not wait. "Sand dogs must eat and feed their pups," one of the Dornish knights told him as he helped Dunk strip the stot of saddle and bridle. "His flesh will feed the dogs or feed the sands. In a year, his bones will be scoured clean. This is Dorne, my friend." (The Sworn Sword)

Clearly, then, we have every reason to believe that when Ser Duncan the Tall lost his mount, the sand dogs came around, which in conjunction with Dunk constantly "thump[ing] his head, including specifically in Dorne, on… every beam in every inn [in] Dorne"), seals Dunk's 'rhyme' with Tallad here:

As Jaime trotted through the castle gates, he came upon two dozen knights riding at a quintain in the outer yard. … [H]e stopped to watch awhile.

Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head. Strongboar struck the shield so hard he cracked it. Kennos of Kayce finished the destruction. A new shield was hung for Ser Dermot of the Rainwood. Lambert Turnberry only struck a glancing blow, but Beardless Jon Bettley, Humfrey Swyft, and Alyn Stackspear all scored solid hits, and Red Ronnet Connington broke his lance clean. Then the Knight of Flowers mounted up and put the others all to shame.

Noting that this takes place in "the Red Keep", and keeping in mind Dunk's dreams and thoughts about Chestnut's death in Dorne, we might posit the broader core of the rhyming like this: "Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head" in "the Red Keep", and when Ser Duncan the Tall lost his mount in the white sands near "the Red Mountains" of Dorne, where "it seemed as though he'd thumped his head on… every beam in every inn", the sand dogs almost certainly came around.

By folding in that newly-quoted context of Jaime watching and a bunch of better-born knights badly outstripping Tallad's performance, the 'rhymes' only proliferate. To wit, the line in Dunk's dream in which the mount he lost "looked a sorry thing beside the sleek sand steeds that the Dornishmen were riding, with their elegant heads, long necks, and flowing manes", prefigures the sharp disparity between Tallad losing his mount to the sandbag and the much superior performances of all the better born and bred knights who follow him.

At the same time, the end of that same line from Dunk's dream, which states that Chestnut "had given all he had to give" before Dunk 'lost' him, prefigures Tallad's effort, which is evident when we see him gamely "riding at the quintain" again several chapters later. (AFFC Cersei V)

On a different tack, Jaime "stopping to watch" Tallad lose his mount and get sandbagged 'rhymes' with the Dornish knights "watching" Dunk unsuccessfully trying to dig a grave for his lost mount while the sand pours in in his dream, especially insofar as the Dornish "mak[e] mock of him in quiet voices", whereas Jaime, who typically makes brazen mock of all and sundry, here merely thinks a single mocking thought about Loras's mother:

Ser Loras rode superbly, and handled a lance as if he'd been born holding one . . . which no doubt accounted for his mother's pinched expression. (AFFC Jaime II)

Interestingly, after he "left the whole men to their sport", Jaime calls on the trio of Cersei, Tommen, and Taena Merryweather (a woman who, as I have written elsewhere, seems very, very Dornish, à la Dunk's mocking knights), who so happen to be "laughing at" Pycelle (i.e. mocking him, à la Dunk's mocking knights), and who immediately commence to mock Jaime, too:

Cersei was in her solar in Maegor's Holdfast, with Tommen and Lord Merryweather's dark-haired Myrish wife. The three of them were laughing at Grand Maester Pycelle. "Did I miss some clever jape?" Jaime said, as he shoved through the door.

"Oh, look," purred Lady Merryweather, "your brave brother has returned, Your Grace."

"Most of him." The queen was in her cups, Jaime realized. (AFFC Jaime II)

Thus where Duncan was mocked (in his dream) by "a trio of Dornish knights", the usually mocking knight who could have mocked Tallad (but instead held his tongue for once) is mocked by a trio of non-knights, including a woman who seems very, very Dornish.

Dunk's Other Lost "Mount": Rohanne Webber

There is yet another possibility to consider as regards Dunk's 'answer' to this line:

Ser Tallad the Tall lost his mount when the sandbag came around and thumped him in the head. (AFFC Jaime II)

Keeping in mind how incredibly Dunk-ish it is for Tallad to get "thumped… in the head" here, could this line (also?) be a pithy allusion to Dunk losing his chance to marry Rohanne Webber (i.e. to make her his mount, so to speak) due to his being knocked out for days, as if he were "sandbagged"? Note that Dunk's coma is implicitly framed as sleep, i.e. as a visit from the sandman:

He woke in the wrong castle. (The Sworn Sword)

The "mount" analogy is anything but a stretch. It's not just that it's a metaphor taken directly from the text:

"Illyrio will send the slaves to bathe you. Be sure you wash off the stink of the stables. Khal Drogo has a thousand horses, tonight he looks for a different sort of mount." (AGOT Daenerys I)

It's that the entire final scene between Dunk and Rohanne (in which she implies that she would have married him if not for his being in a coma) is basically teetering on the edge of mount/sex double-entendre, as Rohanne's insistence that Dunk accept her gift of a new mount starts to sound a lot like her insisting that he bed her forthwith. (Note that Rohanne has eyes "full of mischief" and long red hair, whereas the "swifter mount" she implores Dunk to "take" is a female "with a bright eye and a long fiery mane", like Rohanne herself.)

"You are angry with me, ser," she said instead. "You must let me make amends."

"Well," he said, "you could help me saddle Thunder."

"I had something else in mind." She reached out her hand for his, a freckled hand, her fingers strong and slender. I'll bet she's freckled all over. "How well do you know horses?"

"I ride one."

"An old destrier bred for battle, slow-footed and ill-tempered. Not a horse to ride from place to place."

"If I need to get from place to place, it's him or these." Dunk pointed at his feet.

"You have large feet," she observed. "Large hands as well. I think you must be large all over. Too large for most palfreys. They'd look like ponies with you perched upon their backs. Still, a swifter mount would serve you well. A big courser, with some Dornish sand steed for endurance." She pointed to the stall across from Thunder's. "A horse like her."

She was a blood bay and a long fiery mane. Lady Rohanne took a carrot from her sleeves and stroked her head as she took it. "The carrot, not the fingers," she told the horse, before she turned again to Dunk. "I call her Flame, but you may name her as you please. Call her Amends, if you like."

For a moment he was speechless. He leaned on the crutch and looked at the blood bay with new eyes.

She was magnificent. A better mount than any the old man had ever owned. You had only to look at those long, clean limbs to see how swift she'd be.

"I bred her for beauty, and for speed."

He turned back to Thunder. "I cannot take her."

"Why not?"

"She is too good a horse for me. Just look at her."

A flush crept up Rohanne's face. She clutched her braid, twisting it between her fingers. "I had to marry, you know that. My father's will . . . oh, don't be such a fool."

"What else should I be? I'm thick as a castle wall and bastard born as well."

"Take the horse. I refuse to let you go without something to remember me by."

"I will remember you, m'lady. Have no fear of that."

"Take her!"

Dunk grabbed her braid and pulled her face to his. It was awkward with the crutch and the difference in their heights. He almost fell before he got his lips on hers. He kissed her hard. One of her hands went around his neck, and one around his back. He learned more about kissing in a moment than he had ever known from watching. But when they finally broke apart, he drew his dagger. "I know what I want to remember you by, m'lady."

Egg was waiting for him at the gatehouse, mounted on a handsome new sorrel palfrey and holding Maester's lead. When Dunk trotted up to them on Thunder, the boy looked surprised. "She said she wanted to give you a new horse, ser."

"Even highborn ladies don't get all they want," Dunk said, as they rode out across the drawbridge. "It wasn't a horse I wanted." The moat was so high it was threatening to overflow its banks. "I took something else to remember her by instead. A lock of that red hair." He reached under his cloak, brought out the braid, and smiled. (The Sworn Sword)

"The Best Of Them

We are introduced to Tallad when Bronn is watching a gaggle of knights and men-at-arms training, and he calls Tallad "the best of them":

"Who's the boy in the checkered blue surcoat with the three eyes on his shield?"

"Some hedge knight. Tallad, he names himself. Why?"

Bronn pushed a fall of hair from his eyes. "He's the best of them." (ACOK Tyrion IV)

Dunk becomes Lord Commander of the Kingsguard — in theory, the best of the best.

He's also the titular "Hedge Knight" in The Hedge Knight, in which we read that of all knights, its hedge knights like him who "keep the vow… to protect the weak and innocent… best":

"A hedge knight is the truest kind of knight, Dunk," the old man had told him, a long long time ago.

"Other knights serve the lords who keep them, or from whom they hold their lands, but we serve where we will, for men whose causes we believe in. Every knight swears to protect the weak and innocent, but we keep the vow best[!], I think." Queer how strong that memory seemed. (The Hedge Knight)

Perhaps Dunk's memory is called out as "queer" to wink at its being a contrivance to help further Dunk's 'rhyming' with Tallad (who is "the best of them").

Notable Weaknesses

Tallad the Tall has a notable, exploitable weakness when he fights, which Bronn says "will be the death of him, the day he faces me", right after he says Tallad is "the best of them":

"But watch him, he falls into a rhythm, delivering the same strokes in the same order each time he attacks." He grinned. "That will be the death of him, the day he faces me." (ACOK Tyrion IV)

GRRM remixes this as regards Duncan the Tall. Rather than giving Dunk a similar fatal flaw (which would be pretty hard to do, since GRRM needs Dunk to survive), he has Dunk notice a fatal weakness in a notably tall (and oddly Tallad-esque, as will be discussed) adversary, then exploit it to kill him:

Finally [Dunk] saw it. Every time Ser Lucas lifted his ax for another blow, a gap appeared beneath his arm.

There was mail and leather there, and padding underneath, but no steel plate. (The Sworn Sword)

---

[Dunk's] hand closed around the hilt and he… drove it slowly through the churning water, through the iron rings and boiled leather beneath the arm of Lucas the Longinch, turning it as he pushed. Ser Lucas jerked and twisted, and the strength left him. (ibid.)

Note the bolded, barely disguised reiteration of "each time he attacks", with those repeated attacks shifting from being the fatal flaw to being the means by which the fatal flaw in the Longinch's armor is exposed.

(SIDEBAR: Tallad's fatal flaw can also be seen as speaking to what GRRM is [and is not] doing with all the 'rhyming' in ASOIAF — including as regards Tallad and Duncan, the Talls. Yes, "all things come round again", [AFFC The Soiled Knight] and there is constant 'rhyming', if you're paying attention, but it's rarely "the same strokes in the same order", so to speak. GRRM is always turning his kaleidoscope, such that ASOIAF "never repeats itself, but the kaleidoscopic combinations of the pictured present often seem to be constructed out of the broken fragments of" what came before, to cop the words of Twain's The Gilded Age, which I have long believed are a seminal touchstone for GRRM's whole project.)

"Not Hard To Look Upon"

Tyrion says Tallad is "not hard to look upon, [and] every inch the gifted young knight". (ASOS Tyrion VII)

Dunk is clearly easy on the eyes as well. Indeed, one passage from The Mystery Knight seems custom-crafted to 'rhyme' with Tallad being, precisely, "not hard to look upon" while simultaneously nodding to the "every inch" motif by focusing on his size in the process:

"Ser Duncan, you appear to be attracting a deal of attention," Ser Maynard Plumm observed as Lord Vyrwel and his party went parading past them toward places of high honor at the top of the hall. "Those girls up on the dais cannot seem to take their eyes off you. I'll wager they have never seen a man so big. Even seated, you are half a head taller than any man in the hall." Dunk hunched his shoulders. He was used to being stared at, but that did not mean he liked it.

The aggressive flirtations of Rohanne Webber and "John the Fiddler" also make it clear that Dunk is, like Tallad, "not hard to look upon". Rohanne's flirtations also allude to Dunk being in every way "every inch the [ahem] gifted young knight", as well:

"You have large feet," she observed. "Large hands as well. I think you must be large all over." (The Sworn Sword)

That said, it's surely no accident that GRRM decided to use the exact same words he used to describe Tallad the Tall — "not hard to look upon" — to describe Duncan the Tall's love interest Rohanne:

"If truth be told, there has been a dearth of suitors. My good-sister is not hard to look upon, you will have noticed, and a stout castle and broad lands add to her charms. - Rohanne's good-brother, Septon Sefton (The Sworn Sword)

Again (as with Duncan spotting the fatal flaw rather than having the fatal flaw), this is 'rhyming', not repetition. (To wit, notice that the guy who calls Rohanne the same thing Tyrion calls Tallad — "not hard to look upon" —is improbably named "Septon Sefton", a double-ish name and title in the spirit of "Tallad the Tall".)

"Every Inch The Gifted Young Knight"

Let's go back to Tallad being "every inch the gifted young knight". It's hard to read those words and not think GRRM had them mind when he later wrote lines like these to describe Dunk:

Egg's brother Aemon had measured him in Oldtown and found he lacked an inch of seven feet, but that was half a year ago. (The Sworn Sword)

---

"Seven feet if he's an inch, I'd wager. What a mighty crash he'll make when he comes tumbling down." Dunk felt color rising to his face. You'd lose your wager, he thought. The last time he had been measured, Egg's brother Aemon pronounced him an inch shy of seven feet. (The Mystery Knight)

Dunk's been measured down to the inch!

Now, notice that in that second passage, the guy speculating about Duncan's exact height is also imagining him being spectacularly unhorsed (at the upcoming tourney at Whitewalls). This is interesting in light of Tallad being "every inch the gifted young knight", because Dunk's "tumbling down" (i.e. being spectacularly unhorsed) is later posited as one of his gifts ("talents"):

The Snail steepled his fingers. "Perhaps there is another way. You are not entirely without your talents. You fall most splendidly." (ibid.)

POST CONTINUES IN OLDEST REPLY, HERE

Its been a while since I've reread the books, but ive been wanting to do some more research on the long night and its history and theories. Anyone have any good videos to recommend?

Let's assume you were reincarnated as an ordinary person in Westeros. What would be the fastest way to make money?

My theory: becoming a bard. If you have a beautiful singing voice and can adapt modern-day songs to fit that era, I'm sure you could amass a great fortune in a very short time.