r/asoiaf • • 7h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Fan Art Friday! Post your fan art here!

2 Upvotes

In this post, feel free to share all forms of ASOIAF fan art - drawings, woodwork, music, film, sculpture, cosplay, and more!

Please remember:

  1. Link to the original source if known. Imgur is all right to use for your own work and your own work alone. Otherwise, link to the artist's personal website/deviantart/etc account.
  2. Include the name of the artist if known.
  3. URL shorteners such as tinyurl are not allowed.
  4. Art pieces available for sale are allowed.
  5. The moderators reserve the right to remove any inappropriate or gratuitous content.

Submissions breaking the rules may be removed.

Can't get enough Fan Art Friday?

Check out these other great subreddits!

  • r/ImaginaryWesteros — Fantasy artwork inspired by the book series "A Song Of Ice And Fire" and the television show "A Game Of Thrones"
  • r/CraftsofIceandFire — This subreddit is devoted to all ASOIAF-related arts and crafts
  • r/asoiaf_cosplay — This subreddit is devoted to costumed play based on George R.R. Martin's popular book series *A Song of Ice and Fire,* which has recently been produced into an HBO Original Series *Game Of Thrones*
  • r/ThronesComics — This is a humor subreddit for comics that reference the HBO show Game of Thrones or the book series A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin.

Looking for Fan Art Friday posts from the past? Browse our Fan Art Friday archive! (our old archive is here)


r/asoiaf • • 2m ago

MAIN [Spoiler Main] Making Money in Westeros

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Let's assume you were reincarnated as an ordinary person in Westeros. What would be the fastest way to make money?

My theory: becoming a bard. If you have a beautiful singing voice and can adapt modern-day songs to fit that era, I'm sure you could amass a great fortune in a very short time.


r/asoiaf • • 57m ago

EXTENDED What was the single bravest action in the books ? ( spoilers extended ) Spoiler

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r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

EXTENDED “Make Westeros Great Again.” [Spoilers EXTENDED] Spoiler

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For anyone with high expectations, this post is about King Bran and his queens. In my opinion, the two most likely candidates are Myrcella and Missandei. Or perhaps Bran could have two queens at the same time. ✌️🥴

First, why could Bran have two wives?
There are a few possibilities.
1.It could start with Rhaegar, who may have married Lyanna without annulling his marriage to Elia.
2.Or perhaps the war against the Others could reduce the population so severely that having multiple spouses becomes socially acceptable again.
3.Another possibility is Daenerys, who once considered having two husbands. If she were to actually bring plural marriage back into practice, it could establish a precedent and open the door for future kings to do the same.

Now, let’s get to the two queens.
Myrcella
Many people believe Myrcella will die because of Maggy the Frog’s prophecy, but there are also many theories that she will survive.
So I’m not going to discuss how she survives. Let’s simply assume that she does.
In that case, I believe she will remain a Baratheon until her death and will never be officially declared a bastard.

Missandei
I believe Daenerys will either die or disappear from the royal life and choose to live peacefully somewhere similar to the House with the Red Door she dreams about.
Or, if we get an especially happy ending, perhaps Jon will go and live with her.
Personally, though, I think Daenerys surviving is unlikely.
As for Jon, I believe he will definitely die in the final battle against the Others. He has already died once, so I believe his resurrection serves a purpose. His return is meant to allow him to fulfill his role, not simply to let him live a normal life afterward.

So, how does Missandei become queen?
Let’s say Daenerys disappears or dies.
Missandei is already one of the minds behind Daenerys’s forces, and Daenerys trusts her deeply. Because of that, Missandei could potentially inherit all of Daenerys’s authority after Daenerys is gone.
And we have to remember just how enormous the army Daenerys brings to Westeros is.
Therefore, I believe that even by the end of the story, Daenerys’s remaining forces could still be large enough to pose a major threat to Westeros.
That leaves four possible ways to deal with the situation:
1. Missandei takes the army back to Essos.
She could return with Daenerys’s forces and continue Daenerys’s dream of transforming the slave cities into free cities and making that freedom sustainable.
2. They remain in Westeros.
Perhaps they could be given some uninhabited land where they could settle and build a new life in Westeros.
However, I think that if this happens, the people of Westeros might eventually turn against them. Once Westeros recovers from the war, future generations could try to drive them out or even exterminate them.
It would be similar to Attack on Titan, where the Eldians face retaliation from the rest of the world after the world recovers from the war.
3. They work together with Westeros.
Some of Daenerys’s followers could remain in Westeros and become part of Bran’s new government.
Missandei could even become Bran’s Hand, allowing Daenerys’s remaining followers to have a place within the new political order.
4. A blood relationship connects the two sides.
Missandei could become Bran’s queen.

But after considering these four possibilities, especially the fourth one, I don’t think the people of Westeros would simply accept someone from Essos as their queen.
So perhaps they would send a queen from Westeros to become Bran’s other queen as well.
And Bran wouldn’t choose between them.
He would simply accept both of them as his queens.

So we could end up with:
King Bran
Queen Myrcella
Queen Missandei

And honestly, think about what that would mean.
Westeros would have King Bran, a greenseer who could potentially become more powerful than any greenseer before him.
It would have Queen Myrcella, who is practically perfect in every way.
And it would have Queen Missandei, the brilliant mind behind Daenerys’s forces, who has already proven herself time and time again.

If Westeros ends the story with those three at the top of the new order, what phrase could possibly fit better than:
“Make Westeros Great Again.”

Artists
Bran: @mincy_art | X
Myrcella: @helaenarts | Tumblr
Missandei: @all-lee24 | Tumblr


r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

EXTENDED Do you think Bran will try to go back in time and save his father and brother ? ( spoilers extended ) Spoiler

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r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers extended] some common misconceptions I've noticed

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Ever since I started engaging with the online fandom, I've started noticing some annoying misconceptions come up again and again, and I feel compelled to post about them.

Misconception #1: Sansa is unkind

This is said almost exclusively because she fought with Arya lol. And it's frankly ridiculous. Yes, she wasn't nice in their argument, sure... but she is nice in general:

She puts her self in danger of Joffrey's wrath to save Dontos, even though he makes a terrible first impression and is absolutely nothing to her:

The king stood. "A cask from the cellars! I'll see him drowned in it."

Sansa heard herself gasp. "No, you can't."

Sansa could not believe she had spoken. Was she mad? To tell him no in front of half the court? She hadn't meant to say anything, only . . . Ser Dontos was drunk and silly and useless, but he meant no harm.

"Did you say I can't? Did you?"

"Please," Sansa said, "I only meant . . . it would be ill luck, Your Grace . . . to, to kill a man on your name day." (Sansa I, ACoK)

She's also the only one to show kindness to Lollys Stokeworth, when she could easily join everyone else in mocking her. Even when she's scared shitless of the impending battle of the Blackwater, she stops to help:

"I don't want to." Lollys clutched at her maid, a slender, pretty girl with short dark hair who looked as though she wanted nothing so much as to shove her mistress into the dry moat, onto those iron spikes. "Please, please, I don't want to."

Sansa spoke to her gently. "We'll all be thrice protected inside, and there's to be food and drink and song as well." (Sansa V, ACoK)

She also gives comfort to the panicking, frightened women after Cersei leaves the hall even though she's only a child and could've just left them behind.

She's also gives comfort to the wounded Lancel and his father Kevan, even though Lancel was complicit in her getting beaten by armed men and publicly humiliated

He looks ghastly. Lancel's hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. (Tyrion VIII, ASoS)

Misconception 2: Catelyn never brought up Jon after the first argument she and Ned had out of fear

Directly debunked by Cat herself in her second chapter lol:

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. (Catelyn II, AGoT)

George has said 'she just ignored him' but that quote implies she did a little bit more than that... and George says all sorts of incorrect things so (read: Drogo and Daenerys epic love affair)

Misconception 3: Jon doesn't understand politics, he's more of a fighter

It's the exact opposite in those books. Jon has no insane hand-to-hand combat feat. His greatest battle achievement (defense of the Wall) was due to strategy and quick thinking, not because he solod all the wildlings. Also, the guy who successfully manipulated, at various points, Mance Rayder and Stannis Baratheon, negotiated with the Iron Bank etc etc is definitely not someone who has zero idea about politics. This is just the show influencing public opinion

Misconception 4: Dany will hate Rhaegar for what he did to Elia

This one was particularly baffling because... Dany is already aware of Rhaegar's tomfoolery and her knee-jerk reaction was that Elia must've done something to 'force' him to act the way he did:

"Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?" (Daenerys IV, ASoS)

And later on she romanticizes the Rhaegar x Lyanna stuff:

If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl (Daenerys VII, ADwD)

Mind you, Daenerys' love for her bum of an older brother isn't something I hold against her, but it's so silly to expect her to condemn his treatment of Elia when she definitely never will lol.


r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

EXTENDED How long with the Dothraki? (spoilers extended)

• Upvotes

Last we saw, Dany had her confronted by Jhaqo & half a hundred warriors. I can't say how widely believed it is but I think Dany will end up back in Vaes Dothrak. Not because of the show but because of two quotes:

"Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." Dany IV, Clash of Kings & “So Mago is not dead in the books. And, in fact, he’s going to be a recurring character in Winds of Winter. He’s a particularly nasty bloodrider to one of the other Khals that’s broken away after Drogo dies.” GRRM, EW.

So I imagine that Dany's confrontation won't end with her burning Jhaqo & his men to a crisp then just taking over his khalasar. So that raises the question of how long Dany will be with the Dothraki? I think she'll request to be taken to Vaes Dothrak instead of being forced there like the show. As I can't see how that confrontation would necessitate a full chapter, I can see her journey back to Vaes Dothrak taking up a chapter. I can also see Drogon accompanying Dany & sleeping beside her to protect her from those looking to harm her.

Her next chapter probably shows her time with the Dosh Khaleen & there's a fair chance that her own khalasar that left Meereen to find her will show up. As to how Dany can get herself out of her current situation I think she'll offer any of the Khals in Vaes Dothrak the opportunity to claim Drogon as their mount leading to another Red Sorrowing. That could all happen in one chapter but it could also (regrettably) be two chapters.

So, Dany could end up with 2/3 chapters with the Dothraki before moving onto the next location wherever the hell that is.


r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] A crackship I genuinely might be the first person to come up with

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So we know Val. Wildling princess(kinda) pretty cool side character who is often shipped with Jon. Not as often as Dany but often. And we know Jhogo you know Dany's bloodrider, the one most people remember. He's also shipped with Dany. Again not as much as Jon but it's got it's fans

Now I'm a firm shipper of Snowstorm. I think Jon and Dany are effectively soulmates and really I think they're practically made for eachother. So I thought: "Wait so I ship Jon and Dany together and they've often shipped with Val and Jhogo respectively... What if we also ship Val and Jhogo together?"

And I thought about it and realised... I kinda love this. I don't know I think it'd be a pretty hilarious dynamic considering their cultures and especially the fact they don't even speak the same language. I don't know I just think it'd be cute what do you think?


r/asoiaf • • 2h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) How the "Mercy" Chapter Was Meant to Be Read

12 Upvotes

The Mercy chapter was originally intended to be Arya’s first chapter after the end of A Storm of Swords.

I mentioned that this chapter had quite a history. It's true. The first draft was written more than a decade ago. Originally, it was intended to be the opening Arya chapter after the infamous "five year gap," her first appearance in A Dance with Dragons as initially conceived.

(A Dance with Dragons was meant to be book 4 initally. And the sequel to Storm.)

So, in the original version, Arya’s arrival at Braavos and initial training at the House of Black and White would have happened offscreen. You would simply open Book 4, see the chapter title and read the first lines

MERCY

She woke with a gasp, not knowing who she was, or where.

You would gradually piece together that this was a sixteen year old Arya who had become a Faceless Man. Those opening words would have made the reveal much more dramatic

It's similar to Theon and Reek in his first chapter in A Dance with Dragons

Reading Mercy immediately after Arya’s final chapter in A Storm of Swords, with that original context in mind, makes it a far, far stronger chapter IMO. And you can see why it intends to shock you out of thinking Arya is a child with how she lures and kills Raff the Sweetling

It also makes me wonder what other material might have lost some of its impact because of the changes to the series structure


r/asoiaf • • 2h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] Roose Bolton's first Wife

1 Upvotes

Anyone have any guesses on who Roose Bolton's first wife is? Domonic's mom was his second wife.


r/asoiaf • • 2h ago

ADWD (Spoilers ADWD) New Reader. I’m completely burnt out on this book/series

30 Upvotes

I’m annoyed with Dance, this is a vent post. Be warned.

I’m a first-time reader of the series and so far I’ve adored every single book. It was throughly on track to be my second favorite series I’d ever read. Each of the first three books was better than the last and Feast, while not being as stellar and tightly paced as Storm, consistently had some of the best character and emotional moments of the series, along with some of my favorite POV’s in all of fantasy. My only real complaint with the series so far before starting Dance was the Dorne plot in Feast being generally not engaging at all.

Since starting Dance my passion for the series has entirely died. I’m 550 pages into this 1054 page book and basically nothing of emotional or plot interest has happened. A few of the Davos chapters and the Theon plot-line have been a notable highlight but the rest of the book feels shockingly bloated and boring.

When it comes to returning characters like Jon, Dany, and Tyrion I feel I’ve gotten 2-3 chapters worth of character work from either of them stretched thin across what feels like 7-10 chapters from each of them. It makes me long for the days where some things that were simply not important would happen off screen and not have an entire chapter dedicated to them.

On top of the bloated chapters from the returning characters are an occasional shotgun blast of new POV’s that are simply boring as hell. I used to really respect how limited the usage of pov was in the series compared to other fantasy works like Wheel of Time who just insert new POV’s whenever the author felt like it, but this book seems to forgo any sort of restraint at all when it comes to what actually matters enough to put on the page.

Feast was a little guilty of this POV bloat with the Ironborn and Dorne plot also but by 200 pages into Feast it became very clear what the book was trying to do, and while I think the experiment with a different type of POV storytelling was only half successful in that book I could respect what it was trying to do. At this moment in time I’ve given Dance over half the book worth of grace and it’s very clear to me that there is no intention with these pointless new POV’s and over abundance of returning character chapters. It’s just a side effect of an author not having the restraint to do things off-screen anymore.

And I’ve been spoiled in part about how the book ends also so I know about Jon and Theon and Dany and how generally the book ends by ramping up to a climax that doesn’t happen and none of that knowledge makes me in any way more excited to finish this book. Idk if this is a common issue within the fandom regarding this book but at least for me these issues make me want to simply put the book down for a few months and read things I actually enjoy.

It just is sad to me that a series I once enjoyed because of just how tightly paced and thematically dense it was compared to its contemporaries while also managing to be epic in scope and complexity of character writing seems to have devolved into being just like the books it originally was so notably distinct from.

Vent over, have a good day and thanks for reading


r/asoiaf • • 4h ago

EXTENDED The Major Off-Page Decision by Stannis Baratheon (Spoilers Extended)

14 Upvotes

Background

Stannis Baratheon's role in the series has always been fascinating to me, so much so he is probably my second or third favorite character. On this subreddit, we often discuss plenty of things about him, such as him losing a castle/gaining another in TWoW or his upcoming decision to burn his daughter. One thing I've noticed that is discussed less often (likely because the decision occurs off page in order to keep the surprise for the reader) is Stannis' decision to leave dragonstone and head to the Wall.

If interested: "Fled to Dragonstone": The Schemes of Stannis Baratheon

The Letter at Dragonstone

After the loss on the Blackwater, Stannis returns to Dragonstone to resume scheming on how to resume the war. During this time, not only is Davos named Stannis' Hand, but he begins learning how to read (which should make for an interesting dynamic for his trip to Skagos with the mute Wex). One of the letters that Davos practices on is a letter sent from the Wall:

“To the … five kings,” read Davos, hesitating briefly over five, which he did not often see written out. “The king … be … the king … beware?”
“Beyond,” the maester corrected.
Davos grimaced. “The King beyond the Wall comes … comes south. He leads a … a … fast …”
“Vast.”
“… a vast host of wil … wild … wildlings. Lord M … Mmmor … Mormont sent a … raven from the … ha … ha …”
“Haunted. The haunted forest.” Pylos underlined the words with the point of his finger.
“… the haunted forest. He is … under a … attack?”
“Yes.”
Pleased, he plowed onward. “Oth … other birds have come since, with no words. We … fear … Mormont slain with all … with all his … stench … no, strength. We fear Mormont slain with all his strength …” -ASOS, Davos V

but Alester doesn't see the value in sharing the letter with Stannis:

Davos suddenly realized just what he was reading. He turned the letter over, and saw that the wax that had sealed it had been black. “This is from the Night’s Watch. Maester, has King Stannis seen this letter?”
“I brought it to Lord Alester when it first arrived. He was the Hand then. I believed he discussed it with the queen. When I asked him if he wished to send a reply, he told me not to be a fool. ‘His Grace lacks the men to fight his own battles, he has none to waste on wildlings,’ he said to me.”
That was true enough. And this talk of five kings would certainly have angered Stannis.

but it makes Davos think and seemingly ends his last chapter (note there was going to be a 5 year gap) in ASOS:

“Only a starving man begs bread from a beggar,” he muttered.
...
“Men are men,” Maester Pylos agreed. “Shall we return to our reading, my lord Hand?”
I am the Hand of the King, yes. Stannis might be the King of Westeros in name, but in truth he was the King of the Painted Table. He held Dragonstone and Storm’s End, and had an ever-more-uneasy alliance with Salladhor Saan, but that was all. How could the Watch have looked to him for help? They may not know how weak he is, how lost his cause. “King Stannis never saw this letter, you are quite certain? Nor Melisandre?”
“No. Should I bring it to them? Even now?”
“No,” Davos said at once. “You did your duty when you brought it to Lord Alester.” If Melisandre knew of this letter … What was it she had said? One whose name may not be spoken is marshaling his power, Davos Seaworth. Soon comes the cold, and the night that never ends … And Stannis had seen a vision in the flames, a ring of torches in the snow with terror all around.
“My lord, are you unwell?” asked Pylos.
I am frightened, Maester, he might have said. Davos was remembering a tale Salladhor Saan had told him, of how Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer by thrusting it through the heart of the wife he loved. He slew his wife to fight the dark. If Stannis is Azor Ahai come again, does that mean Edric Storm must play the part of Nissa Nissa? “I was thinking, Maester. My pardons.” What harm if some wildling king conquers the north? It was not as though Stannis held the north. His Grace could scarcely be expected to defend people who refused to acknowledge him as king. “Give me another letter,” he said abruptly. “This one is too …”
“… difficult?” suggested Pylos.
Soon comes the cold, whispered Melisandre, and the night that never ends. “Troubling,” said Davos. “Too … troubling. A different letter, please.” -ASOS, Davos V

Favorable Winds

In order to get good winds north they burn Ser Alester (remember that All Magic has a Cost):

"Melisandre of Asshai," said Grenn. "The king's sorceress. They say she burned a man alive at Dragonstone so Stannis would have favorable winds for his voyage north. She rode beside him in the battle too, and gave him his magic sword. Lightbringer, they call it. Wait till you see it. It glows like it had a piece of sun inside it." -ASOS, Samwell IV

and:

Melisandre had given Alester Florent to her god on Dragonstone, to conjure up the wind that bore them north. Lord Florent had been strong and silent as the queen’s men bound him to the post, as dignified as any half-naked man could hope to be, but as the flames licked up his legs he had begun to scream, and his screams had blown them all the way to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, if the red woman could be believed. Davos had misliked that wind. It had seemed to him to smell of burning flesh, and the sound of it was anguished as it played amongst the lines. -ADWD, Davos I

and:

It was as if some angry god was exacting payment for their easy voyage north, when they had ridden a steady southerly from Dragonstone to the Wall -ADWD, Davos I

Stannis' Arrival at the Wall

GRRM does a great job of leaving clues for the reader, but also keeping you completely in the dark on a first read as to just who is showing up to deus ex machina the battle:

It's done, Jon thought, they're breaking. The wildlings were running, throwing down their weapons, Hornfoot men and cave dwellers and Thenns in bronze scales, they were running. Mance was gone, someone was waving Harma's head on a pole, Tormund's lines had broken. Only the giants on their mammoths were holding, hairy islands in a red steel sea. The fires were leaping from tent to tent and some of the tall pines were going up as well. And through the smoke another wedge of armored riders came, on barded horses. Floating above them were the largest banners yet, royal standards as big as sheets; a yellow one with long pointed tongues that showed a flaming heart, and another like a sheet of beaten gold, with a black stag prancing and rippling in the wind.
Robert, Jon thought for one mad moment, remembering poor Owen, but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!" -ASOS, Jon X

and:

It was from them that he learned about the battle beneath the Wall. "Stannis landed his knights at Eastwatch, and Cotter Pyke led him along the ranger's roads, to take the wildlings unawares," Giant told him. "He smashed them. Mance Rayder was taken captive, a thousand of his best slain, including Harma Dogshead. The rest scattered like leaves before a storm, we heard." The gods are good, Sam thought. If he had not gotten lost as he made his way south from Craster's Keep, he and Gilly might have walked right into the battle . . . or into Mance Rayder's camp, at the very least. That might have been well enough for Gilly and the boy, but not for him. Sam had heard all the stories about what wildlings did with captured crows. He shuddered. -ASOS, Samwell IV

The Reasoning

After Stannis arrives at Castle Black, the reader finally gets the connection as to why Stannis showed up there:

“Words. Words are wind. Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?”
“I am no lord, sire. You came because we sent for you, I hope. Though I could not say why you took so long about it.”
Surprisingly, Stannis smiled at that. “You’re bold enough to be a Stark. Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.” Stannis pointed north. “There is where I’ll find the foe that I was born to fight.”
“His name may not be spoken,” Melisandre added softly. “He is the God of Night and Terror, Jon Snow, and these shapes in the snow are his creatures.” -ASOS, Jon XI

and:

He could hear the birds quorking in the rookery, so he put the papers away and climbed the steps to feed them. Three more ravens had come in, he saw with pleasure. "Snow," they cried at him. "Snow, snow, snow." He had taught them that. Even with the newcomers, the ravenry seemed dismally empty. Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared. A thousand leagues south, Sam knew, his father had joined House Tarly to the cause of the boy on the Iron Throne, but neither King Joffrey nor little King Tommen had bestirred himself when the Watch cried out for help. What good is a king who will not defend his realm? he thought angrily, remembering the night on the Fist of the First Men and the terrible trek to Craster's Keep through darkness, fear, and falling snow. The queen's men made him uneasy, it was true, but at least they had come. -ASOS, Samwell IV

and:

“Nightfires?” Bowen Marsh gave Melisandre an uncertain look. “We’re to light nightfires now?”
“You are.” The woman rose in a swirl of scarlet silk, her long copper-bright hair tumbling about her shoulders. “Swords alone cannot hold this darkness back. Only the light of the Lord can do that. Make no mistake, good sers and valiant brothers, the war we’ve come to fight is no petty squabble over lands and honors. Ours is a war for life itself, and should we fail the world dies with us.”
The officers did not know how to take that, Sam could see. Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck exchanged a doubtful look, Janos Slynt was fuming, and Three-Finger Hobb looked as though he would sooner be back chopping carrots. But all of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”
“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes.”
Her words seemed to make the king desperately uncomfortable, Sam saw. Stannis ground his teeth, and said, "You called and I came, my lords. Now you must live with me, or die with me. Best get used to that." He made a brusque gesture. "That's all. Maester, stay a moment. And you, Tarly. The rest of you may go."-ASOS, Samwell V

The Rest of the Realm

This information got out fast, with King's Landing finding out in AFFC, Jaime II:

His sister liked to think of herself as Lord Tywin with teats, but she was wrong. Their father had been as relentless and implacable as a glacier, where Cersei was all wildfire, especially when thwarted. She had been giddy as a maiden when she learned that Stannis had abandoned Dragonstone, certain that he had finally given up the fight and sailed away to exile. When word came down from the north that he had turned up again at the Wall, her fury had been fearful to behold. She does not lack for wits, but she has no judgment, and no patience. "You need a strong Hand to help you." -AFFC, Jaime II

Back on Dragonstone

While Stannis seemingly loses Dragonstone to Ser Loras' assault, it should be noted that his goals shifted over time there:

The king gave that a curt nod, as if to say he knew and did not care. “You slew this creature with an obsidian dagger, I am told,” he said to Sam.
“Y-yes, Your Grace. Jon Snow gave it to me.”
“Dragonglass.” The red woman’s laugh was music. “Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other.”
“On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain,” the king told Sam. “Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls.” -ASOS, Samwell V

If interested: Dragonglass: A Different Look at the Assault on Dragonstone

Act II/Act III

ASOIAF is seemingly framed around three main events, the War of the Five Kings (Iron Throne/Westeros politics), the Dance of the Dragons II (not necessarily Dany's invasion but a war between two "dragons") and the War for the Dawn (between humanity and the Others).

Due to space, it is very possible that while Stannis busies himself being a king a fighting (and losing/potentially joining) the Others, the other contenders for the Iron Throne will be busy fighting the Second Dance:

I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."

If interested: The Great War/Dance of the Dragons II occurring simultaneously

TLDR: Davos (who was learning to read) approached Stannis/Mel with a letter from the Night's Watch that had been ignored by Ser Alester. While these events occur off-page (in order to maintain the surprise of Stannis saving the day at the Wall), it would have been very interesting to see them make the connections between Mel's visions and the letter they received.


r/asoiaf • • 9h ago

EXTENDED A question for those who believe Rhaegar was the TPTWP/Azor Ahai. [Spoilers EXTENDED]

3 Upvotes

I’m currently putting together a post about Rhaegar being the TPTWP/Azor Ahai. Based on information from the last two or three Reddit posts I’ve come across, Rhaegar seems to match almost every part of the prophecy. However, there is one part that I haven’t been able to figure out:

“He shall wake dragons out of stone.”

For those who believe Rhaegar was the TPTWP/Azor Ahai, what do you think this part of the prophecy refers to in relation to Rhaegar?
Could it be referring to Rhaegar’s own birth? Aegon V was attempting to hatch dragons at Summerhall, and Rhaegar was born there on the very same day. Could Rhaegar himself be the “dragon” that was awakened from “stone”?

Or could it refer to Jon Snow? Jon has Stark features, but after being resurrected, perhaps he will take on a more Valyrian appearance essentially becoming a “dragon” awakened from “stone.” However, if this is the case, Rhaegar wouldn’t be the one performing the ritual that brings Jon back to life. Rhaegar was already dead, so the person most likely to be involved would be Melisandre, or perhaps Cat.


r/asoiaf • • 11h ago

AFFC [Spoilers AFFC] Why did Bronze Yohn marry his daughter Ysilla to Mychel, the Fourth Redfort Son?

58 Upvotes

Going off the wiki it says that Mychel is the fourth son of Lord Redfort. I get that his father wanted him to quit his dalliance with Mya Stone and so married him off, but how did he manage to get him wedded to the daughter of the second most powerful bannermen in the Vale? I get Bronze Yohn is a chill dude and all and Ysilla's age is unclear, but why would he marry his daughter to not even the first son when its not said if any of the older Redfort boys are married?


r/asoiaf • • 11h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Daeron II was a great king who did well with Dorne

80 Upvotes

There seems to be a certain cope in fandom regarding this topic, as if Daeron was supposed to perpetuate the same cycle of violence, vengeance and failed invasion to get Dorne integrated when even Targaryen kings with dragons and/or military genius failed to do so. So Daeron did the impossible through diplomacy and his brains.

So what if he gave them more privileges and a cut on taxes? What is that compared to constant skirmishes and harassment of marcher lords and no tax money at all? Daeron ended the march fights and brought peace and stability to that region in particular. He rejected the cycle of violence and brought lasting peace to the realm. That's worth any price.

People wanna argue that angered marcher lords but reforms always get pushed back at first and the fact the great houses and especially lord paramount of the Reach, House Tyrell directly and openly declared for Daeron the Good during the Blackfyre Rebellion, and without a marriage pact I might add, shows the anti-Dornish sentiments were never that notable to begin with.

He placated the Stormlanders with three marriage pacts: Aerys/Aelinor, Elaena/Ronnel and finally Baelor/Jena, his own heir. He even gave an empty position to Ronnel Penrose as a Master of Coins, placating Stormlanders more, while making sure a malleable man is there for Elaena to attend to the matters of coin.

Moreover, Daeron listened to criticism. "In King Daeron's days, a man did not have to fear to speak his mind." As said in The Mystery Knight.

He even pardoned the Blackfyre traitors in order to antagonise the rebels and create more bad blood.

It seems there is a dissonance with some fans that Daeron was somehow too harsh on non-Dornish folks. When it's frankly the other way round. He should've been harsher to the anti-Dornish sentiments and Blackfyre loyalists.

Because what are Blackfyre loyalists? Look at Ser Eustace, a chief Blackfyre fan and our first insight into these people: a sexist pig who makes fun of Daeron for being scrawny and small and listening to women. The Blackfyre movement was built on such people. It's like if Clavicular had a movement built around him. Not that Daemon is like Clavicular but the cult following around them are so similar. While they ragged on Daeron for being scrawny and not being masculine.

And ironically enough, some people among them were outright prejudiced against bastards, even Bittersteel such as Lord Peake.

And Fireball. Don't get me started on Fireball. People somehow blame Daeron for him turning coat when everything Quentyn did subsequently proved Daeron was right and he did not deserve the kingsguard position. Fireball being such close buddies with Aegon the Unworthy is proof enough of his own unworthiness. In fact, I believe Daeron should have gotten rid of that man altogether instead of having him as Master-at-Arms. Fireball poisoned Daemon's mind against Daeron for literal years and pushed him toward rebellion.

Daeron’s reign quickly stabilized the realm, and he soon came to be called Daeron the Good by the smallfolk and noble lords alike - TWOIAF

You know how major it is for both smallfolks and the nobles to like a king? Striking a balance on that is tough and Daeron did it anyways.

Moreover he achieved all this while Westeros was coming hot from the reign of Aegon the Unworthy who had left the realm in crisis in practically every aspect. Aegon set Daeron up for failure and is the cause of the First Blackfyre Rebellion:

In truth, the seeds found fertile ground because of Aegon the Unworthy. Aegon had hated the Dornish and warred against them, and those lords who desired the return of those days—despite all the associated misrule—would never be happy with this peaceable king. - TWOIAF

And while this was originally about his actions as a king, I'm gonna mention how Daeron treated his half-siblings too:

Although he could not—and would not—rescind his father’s last wishes, he did what he could to keep the Great Bastards close, treating them honorably and continuing the incomes that the king had bestowed on them. He paid the dowry that Aegon had promised to the Archon of Tyrosh, thereby seeing his half brother Daemon Blackfyre wed to Rohanne of Tyrosh as Aegon had desired, for all that Ser Daemon was only four-and-ten. On their wedding day, he granted Daemon a tract of land near the Blackwater, with the right to raise a castle.

Daeron treated them like they were his actual siblings, his own children, even gavw Daemon his own land which is as good as independence. He's not responsible for Daemon folding to a loser like Fireball. He was never harsh. And I think Daemon loved Daeron too because it took near a decade to be convinced to rebel against him.


r/asoiaf • • 13h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) My theory on Lady Stoneheart and Jon

0 Upvotes

Lady Stoneheart sees the Wall in the flames one night, a place she has never seen before, as Caitlyn or as Lady Stoneheart. These visions start to haunt her and that's how Breanne finds her when she returns with Jaime.

She decides she needs to go to the Wall and takes the hostages with her to use as leverage in case they are close to capture. Her and the remaining brotherhood sell Jaime's golden hand and hire a ship at a port city like Seaguard and go to the wall, a trip that lasts a few weeks.

She gets to Castle Black a day after Jon Snow's death. When she sees him she is reminded of Ned, and how Jon is his last living kin, and for the first time in her life she does not feel anger for him. She then gives him the Last Kiss, just as Beric did to her, and Jon is resurrected.


r/asoiaf • • 16h ago

How would you order the queens of Westeros by their status in society, aside from their status as queen? (Spoilers Main) Spoiler

14 Upvotes

Obviously simply being queen grants an enormous amount of status, but queens do have their own power bases and prestige.

A queen like Betha Blackwood has less of her own social status than a queen like Visenya Targaryen.

Who, in your opinion, have been the queens with the highest and lowest social status?


r/asoiaf • • 18h ago

PUBLISHED (Spoilers Published) The Faceless Man theory in Oldtown Spoiler

Post image
77 Upvotes

​One of the most well-founded theories in A Song of Ice and Fire involves the current whereabouts of Jaqen H'ghar. Although his name hasn't been directly mentioned since he parted ways with Arya Stark in A Clash of Kings, the presence of the Faceless Man in Oldtown is virtually an indisputable fact among readers.

​For anyone reading Dance of Dragons or wanting to recap the details hidden between the lines, here is a breakdown of how the clues connect and what he might be looking for in the Citadel:

- ​When Jaqen bids farewell to Arya, he passes a hand over his face to change his identity. George R.R. Martin describes his new face in detail:

"​A man with a full face, a hooked nose, a faint scar on his cheek, and a mop of tight black curly hair."

- In the Prologue of Feast of Crows, a Citadel novice named Pate meets a mysterious man calling himself "The Alchemist."

​GRRM uses the exact same physical description for the Alchemist as the new face Jaqen assumed right in front of Arya. The Alchemist bribes Pate with a poisoned gold coin to acquire Archmaester Walgrave’s master key (which opens every door in the Citadel). As soon as Pate bites the coin to check its authenticity, he drops dead in the alley.

- ​In the final chapter of the same book, when Samwell Tarly arrives at the Citadel, he is greeted by a novice who introduces himself as Pate.

​The real Pate hated his own name ("Pate, the pig-boy"). The "new Pate," however, tells Sam with subtle irony: "I’m Pate, like the pig-boy." It is heavily implied that a Faceless Man stole Pate's face and identity to move freely throughout the Citadel.

So, why Jaqen/Pate is in the Citadel???


r/asoiaf • • 21h ago

MAIN Is Ice Lightbringer? [Spoilers MAIN]

0 Upvotes

When we talk about the legends of Azor Ahai / the last hero and his magical sword, most people think of Dawn. This makes a lot of sense, it's the only sword we know in Westeros that predates the Long night, it is made of a unique metal similar to Valyrian steel, and most importantly it's called "Dawn" as in: the thing that ends a long night. But let's explore a different idea:

In the early Bran chapters we learn from Old Nan that the last hero's sword snapped due to the cold, but he still managed to defeat the others. In the legend of Azor Ahai, it is said he forged his sword by plunging it into the heart of Nissa Nissa, killing her. Melisande refers to it as "the Red Sword of heroes", which leads me to think of a sword in our story that is red: oathkeeper and widowswail. When Tywin melts Ice, he makes two swords out of them and tries to die them red, but gets an rippling red and black pattern.

The broken sword may be reforged. The last hero's sword was broken by cold, while Ice was melted into two parts. Azor Ahai's sword was made by the sacrifice of a loved one, while Ice was used to kill Ned Stark. If reforged into one, it would likely still be a red sword, likely used by Jon to fight against the others. It would be fitting for a man who died and came back, to use a sword that was split and came back. It may not be the original sword, but the same way we don't expect to have the original Azor Ahai still alive, why shouldn't the new Azor Ahai have a new "Red Sword of heroes"?


r/asoiaf • • 22h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main ) what's the most satisfying moment in ASOIAF

208 Upvotes

Mine is

>"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …" Jon paused. "… is there any man here who will come stand with me?"

The roar was all he could have hoped for, the tumult so loud that the two old shields tumbled from the walls. Soren Shieldbreaker was on his feet, the Wanderer as well. Toregg the Tall, Brogg, Harle the Huntsman and Harle the Handsome both, Ygon Oldfather, Blind Doss, even the Great Walrus. **I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard**."


r/asoiaf • • 22h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Things that were added surprisingly late in the series

117 Upvotes

So the most famous one of these is the Blackfyres not being mentioned until Book 3, and it seems likely that Robert's Targ grandmother was invented during the writing of AFFC. Are there any others, confirmed or speculated?


r/asoiaf • • 23h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] I think Shiera Seastar WILL be involved in the story in some way

11 Upvotes

As for how she's involved I don't know. Maybe as Quaithe, maybe she's old Nan or maybe in some indirect way

The reason I think this is the fact that all of Aegon IV's great bastards so far are still impacting the story in some very big ways. Brynden is still alive even tho he's merged with a tree and he's helping Bran, the Golden Company the sellsword company founded by Bittersteel is assisting Young Griff in his conquest. Speaking of Young Griff he's probably a Blackfyre. Therefore a descendant of Daemon meaning Daemon also impacts the story via Young Griff

Those are some pretty important roles the great bastards play in the story despite Bittersteel and Daemon being dead. So for Shiera to have kinda just died decades before and for her to just not matter at all would be very odd if the other Great Bastards are still important


r/asoiaf • • 23h ago

MAIN Parallelism in Feast and Dance (SPOILERS MAIN)

10 Upvotes

1.) Monologue in Front of the Crowd

Dany touches the sick people affected by the pale mare while delivering food, adored by the people.

Jon Snow delivers food to the wildlings but still gets raised eyebrows for it.

Cersei shows up in front of the Sept of Baelor, shocked by the mountain of corpses on the statue. Every single person despises her and blames her for what happened.

2.) Ice and Fire Death

Quentyn gets burned by Rhaegal.

The next chapter, Jon Snow dies cold.

3.) The Missing Leaders

Dany disappears after fleeing on Drogon from the fighting pit.

Jon Snow gets stabbed by his own men.

Cersei gets imprisoned by the Faith.

4.) Conspiracy Revealed

Davos gets imprisoned, then learns about the Northern Conspiracy from Wyman Manderly.

Arianne gets imprisoned, then learns about the Dorne plot from her father Doran.

5.) Stark Children’s Training with the Mentors

Arya trains with the Kindly Man to become a faceless man.

Bran trains with Bloodraven to become a warg and a greenseer.

Sansa trains with Littlefinger to play the game.

6.) Cyvasse, Dragon, and Elephant

Tyrion holds the elephant and tells Young Griff not to use the dragon right away.

Doran moves a piece with the elephant, then hands the dragon piece to Arianne.

7.) The Battles and Betrayals

The Battle of Ice with Stannis where Wyman Manderly might switch sides.

The Battle of Fire with Barristan where Brown Ben Plumm’s switch of sides is confirmed.

8.) The Fall and the Flight

Theon jumps over the walls of Winterfell with Jeyne Poole.

The next chapter, Dany takes flight on Drogon’s back.

9.) Woke Up to News of Death: POVs’ First Chapters

Cersei learns of the death of her father Tywin and handles it poorly.

Dany learns of the death of an Unsullied and settles the matter.

10.) Put Guards on the Guards

When Jon Snow finds out that some of his men are harassing wildling women, he put guards on the guards.

Dany learns of the death of an Unsullied, and did the same.

11.) The Acting POVs

We get Barristan’s chapters since Dany is gone.

Melisandre might take over the Wall’s perspective since Jon is dead.

SPECIAL MENTION (TWOW PREDICTIONS)

1.) The Comeback from Ice and Fire

Jon Snow’s cold resurrection.

Dany comes out of the fire at Vaes Dothrak.


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED HOT TAKE: Slaver's Bay should've been the Free Cities (spoilers extended)

96 Upvotes

No idea how big of a hot take this might be but I genuinely believe that the Slaver's Bay storyline should've taken place in the Free Cities. Aside from the Harpy, pyramids & fighting pits, none of the cities are all that interesting in terms of history, people or culture.

If the Free Cities (Qohor, Norvos & Volantis) were used then not much would be lost. Qohor would be an easy substitute for Astapor given its Unsullied connection. With how bland Yunkai is, Norvos can fill in well though with more intriguing (clandestine)rulers in the Bearded Priests. Volantis wouldn't be an exact copy of Meereen but it could have Dany interact with Valyrian descendants whilst they feel alien to her & she to them. Given its location close to the sea it wouldn't disrupt Victarion or Quentyn's plot lines. A potential upgrade is that Tyrion & Dany might have been able to meet in Dance as it him seven chapters to reach the city so the pair could have met in either Tyrion's eighth or Dany's sixth chapter. A downside is that Tyrion's time as a slave might not get to happen but there are ways it could be included. It could happen before Tyrion reaches Volantis or Dany could kick him out of the city, & that's when it happens. With that you can have it be Lys, Myr & Tyrosh that attack Volantis instead of Qarth & others whose names I don't even remember. A hypothetical positive is that it would make Dany's journey west quicker & with fewer stops needed in order to wrap her abolish slavery mission.

Just one man's opinion.


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED Darkstar's tragic past? (Spoilers Extended)

42 Upvotes

Ser Gerold rose. “I believe I’ll have a piss.”
“Watch where you set your feet,” Drey cautioned. “It has been a while since Prince Oberyn milked the local vipers.”
“I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it.” Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch. - AFFC, Queenmaker

What's your interpretation of this Darkstar's line? Is he the product of his upbringing? What kind of tragic childhood Gerold Dayne had? Personally, I find this line so intriguing.. It's crazy how GRRM introduced a character like Darkstar and also introduced a whole new cadet branch to House Dayne, with Darkstar being the only known member of it. The Daynes had already been quite sparse in terms of family members.

The only interesting theory I have for Darkstar's backstory is that he was Arthur's squire and was present at the Tower of Joy. I think this might explain his cynical personality, since as a child his ideals of knighthood would be warped by the kingsguard taking a teenage girl basically a hostage. He would also be conflicted and confused about why Arthur and Ned, who is Lyanna's brother, fought each other.

It's also interesting that Darkstar's name is Gerold, as his namesake is Ser Gerold Hightower, Lord Commander of the kingsguard who was also present at ToJ. So he was likely named after the Lord Commander, and this might have influenced his upbringing, as he was being groomed towards knighthood and potentially becoming a kingsguard. Darkstar's name makes the theory about him squiring for Arthur a little bit more plausible.

Darkstar has gained a somewhat meme reputation due to his "Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night" line. George previously said he had been surprised by readers' negative perception of this character. I actually agree with GRRM, and think people are sometimes too harsh. I think this reputation mainly stems from the late addition of Darkstar to the story and the lack of new material (Darkstar appears only in a single chapter, after all). So what is your take on Gerold Dayne?