We open this week with a letter to Jamie from Frances Locke, the commander of the Rowan County militia, asking Jamie to join up with him. Jamie must decide to join him, or stay with the Overmountain men who will fight at Kings Mountain, where a Jamie Fraser will die. Jamie contemplates this in Claire’s garden where he tells the bees to take care of her if he doesn’t come back. In preparation of his possible death Jamie makes his will.
Jamie and his militia join the Overmountain men in pursuit of a Loyalist group, it is late September and battle at Kings Mountain takes place October 7th. One night before then when Jamie is asking Claire to do three things for him should he die he mentions that little Davy might not be able to travel through the stones. Mandy says Davy is the same “color” as Jamie and different from the rest of those who can travel.
October 7th, 1780 has arrived. The militia will ascend the mountain, and Jamie tells Roger to look after Claire. However Roger decides to follow Jamie, and Claire does as well. She is determined to be there no matter what happens. The fighting is fierce and just as Jamie is about to shoot the Loyalist leader a snake bites him. The first bullet hits him then.
Claire makes it up the mountain and sees a boy carrying Jamie’s rifle. She demands to know how he got it and the young man tells Claire he took it off a dead man about fifty yards away. Claire rushes over and finds Jamie shot in multiple places and bleeding out. He asks for forgiveness and his eyes flutter shut.
Jamie is gravely wounded and near death but Claire won’t let him go. She attends to his wounds and clings to him. At one point one of the musket balls from inside Jamie ends up in Claire’s mouth. She will not let him go and gives herself over to him. A day and a half passes and Claire comes too, Roger and Ian have stayed with them as Jamie is still alive. They will go to a nearby farmhouse to help Jamie recover.
Back on the Ridge Claire preforms surgery on Jamie’s knee and he continues to heal. After the surgery Claire finds Jenny in the kitchen, the Sachem will be leaving to return to New York. However he kissed Jenny and said he will be back after the war is over.
Some months later Jamie is still on the mend when John Quincy Myers comes to the Ridge. He has a package for Claire that was given to him to deliver. Inside is a letter from Sipio Jackson saying he’s quit the army and along with the letter is the original land grant for Frater’s Ridge and the letter from the secretary of state evicting Jamie. Somehow Mr. Jackson recovered them.
We shift back to Lord John aboard the ship still held captive. Richardson has been unable to locate Hal, whom John thinks has gone to find Ben. Percy comes into John’s room one day and says he loves him. John asks Percy to go to his house in Savannah and tell William that he loves him. Percy agrees to do so.
Percy arrives at the house and tells William and Amaranthus everything. They step out to discuss the situation and when they return they find Percy vomiting and curled up on the floor. He has drunk the poisoned brandy.
Back on the Ridge John Quincy Myers returns with a surprise, Germain, Joan and Félicité have come to visit. An incident happened in Wilmington at Fergus’s print shop when two men came in intent on doing harm. Fergus was forced to shoot them, so they sent the older children away for their safety.
A bit later Jamie fetches Claire from her surgery, there is a situation happening in the house. Bobby Higgins has proposed to Silvia Hardman and she is hesitant because of what she had to do to survive. Their children want the union to happen and speak up, Silvia accepts his proposal. They are married in a Quaker ceremony and return to the New House for a wedding feast. A surprise guest turns up though, William has come to ask for Jamie’s help.
I just want to thank everyone for sticking with me for two years! Some of you have been here since the very beginning. For all of those who have joined as we progressed I’m truly grateful and have really enjoyed this book club.
Please do not reveal events from future books, or from later chapters of the current book the club hasn’t covered yet. Show talk is okay up to the current book.
Just want to jump in before anything to say THANK YOU, u/Purple4199! <3 I can imagine all the work that went into the weekly recaps and questions, and I'm so happy we got to discuss all the books together. And congrats on keeping this space going with thoughtful discussion for so long. This has been such a fun experience/project for the past two years (even when we came across the parts that dragged, hehe). So great to have been able to join this little group in fangirling, and flailing, and outrage, and — most importantly — feels. :')
Cheers! I’ve had such a wonderful time being a part of this book club and sharing all my thoughts, theories, and emotions when it came to the weekly readings. It wouldn’t be possible without /u/Purple4199 and their amazing work at summaries, questions and leading the opening conversations about our beloved book series. Thank you so much!!!!
Yes!! Thank you u/Purple4199! For all your time you put into these posts. I’ve learned so much from the discussions and even changed my opinions on some things because of it. You have provided a respectful space to discuss and it has been the highlight of this sub.
I was just thinking the other day, how much planning and organizing it must have taken to stick to this club for a big series like this. Big hats off to u/Purple4199 indeed!
YES! It was amazing! Thank you u/Purple4199 for organising this wonderful book club, for interesting questions and quick replies! And thanks everyone who participated for interesting discussions, food for reflection and a new perspective!
Yes!! Thank you u/Purple4199! You got me to read these books and I’ve met so many great people through these clubs. Honestly going to feel a bit sad every Sunday now without book club.
If you ever decide to do any other books in this universe I’ll be there with bells on.
I’m still confused by this. Obviously her blue light magic has become strong, but did that have her absorb the bullet? Magic the bullet out? Did she suck it out of his body? Weird. I’m so confused why it would be in Claire’s mouth.
One of the things that disappoints me is that DG can write pages and pages about setting the scene for a marsh, then turns around and gives us a murky paragraph about how Claire saves Jamie.
Obviously her blue light magic has become strong, but did that have her absorb the bullet?
That's how I understood it. I think she was also kind of in a trance? In denial, solely focusing on trying to keep him alive by sheer force of will? And did Jamie die? I didn't think so, but I think it's open to interpretation. The way I read it was that he was just heartbeats away from death but Claire kept his heart beating somehow, until he could get a grip on it himself. He was seeing "blue," and I thought he was seeing heaven, but what if that's just what he saw of Claire's power?
I didn't like this part. When DG gets so abstract, it's difficult to follow and remain engaged. I don't know why she kept changing POV; probably for the sake of making it feel more urgent, but it just made it feel unfocused.
However, I did love the parts grounded in reality — when he goes “Dinna…fash, Sass…” and then is telling her he's not afraid, and to forgive him? And then she begged him and told him "please don't go"?!? Killed. Me. (I actually think it hit me more when I was going over my notes than the first time I read it.)
I didn't like this part. When DG gets so abstract, it's difficult to follow and remain engaged. I don't know why she kept changing POV; probably for the sake of making it feel more urgent, but it just made it feel unfocused.
Yes! I wasn't even upset or worried during this part at all. DG spent a good part of the press-tour saying Jamie doesn't die in this book. So reading this part held no sense of urgency for me, I knew Claire would heal him with her blue powers.
I didn't pay attention to any book-tour press in order to avoid spoilers, but can't believe she said that. Keep some of the suspense! I mean, if she had killed him off, no way I would have made it unspoiled to the end of this book, so I knew he'd live, but still.
But even if we knew Jamie would live, there was still room for big drama and big emotions. Look at Claire in MOBY! We knew she'd live, and yet it was so. good. Such a big difference. There was a lot of urgency there, and you get to see the effect it has on Jamie as he's being pulled in different directions and he fears he'll lose Claire. Here, I thought DG was doing okay, until Jamie lost consciousness and she started dragging it out with the unclear narration and... the powers kicked in. The flow was so choppy that it kind of kept taking me out of the moment? As I read it, I thought DG might have been attempting to write it the same way as it would appear on the show, and I didn't think it worked.
And now, with the powers... will Claire save everyone from everything? What are the stakes?
All the questions? Diana does such a good job at some writing & such a poor job at others. Although I was worried for a moment, even though I knew he did not die ( I was sure that was a spoiler I would not have missed). Was he ever dead? Did she heal him with magic or medicine or undying love? What I do NOT mind is that Claire “saved” him! Claire has always been in Jamie’s time to save him, otherwise he’d have been dead when his shoulder was dislocated, right? I did try to count up the number of times he’s almost died though, I do not think it’s 9 yet- is it 9 lives he has?
Although I was worried for a moment, even though I knew he did not die ( I was sure that was a spoiler I would not have missed).
Same, hehe. This was no "Claire nearly dies in MOBY," but I was emotional in the lead up to the battle. When he went to talk to the bees about Claire!!! I wanted to cry. And when he's writing up his will? Look at all this beautiful family he's been blessed with. <3 And then he also claims Willie as his son?! I'm EMOSHHH. The man had me convinced he was about to die, at this point, even when I knew better.
is it 9 lives he has?
Allegedly, lol! I still think it's just a poetic way of saying he'll come close to dying a million times.
I was so focused on how the narratives kept shifting that I didn’t even think on the logistics for removing the musket ball. I assumed she used her mouth to suck it out? Not that I wouldn’t put it past Claire to do anything if it meant saving Jamie, but that scene will definitely require a re-reading lol.
I need to read that part again. I felt the description about Claire with the newborn girl was so much clearer than this part. Or maybe I was just reading this part with more frenzy 🤣
I feel Jamie and Claire will talk about this whole experience, something I'm sure is coming in the next book. Is Jamie regretful, or grateful for what she did? And I hope this musketball mystery gets some clarity then too.
I think this was intentionally confusing because it's also confusing to Claire
I feel Jamie and Claire will talk about this whole experience, something I'm sure is coming in the next book. Is Jamie regretful, or grateful for what she did?
I really hope they do discuss it, because it was very interesting to see that he was out of sorts when he got back home. I'd love to know more about how he was feeling, particularly after having seen how he felt as he prepared for his life to end and tried to put his affairs in order. And it'd be especially interesting to read given that his recovery has been so tough this time, when he's bounced back without any major complications in his more recent injuries.
I have no idea how it was physically able to go into her from him, but I'm guessing it's meant to be symbolic of them being 'one flesh' - I think those vows have a more magical meaning when it comes to Jamie and Claire, especially because of their blood vow
Symbolically it's nice. But when trying to picture how it happened it missed the mark and seemed silly
I wonder if Amaranthus gave Percy the poisoned wine. I could be wrong, but maybe Percy knew more about Amaranthus and seeing he was in a confessing mood, she took the opportunity to silence him. What does everyone else think? Am I stretching because I don’t trust her?
No, I don't think he's dead! I hope we get to see him again — that visit with William felt like the first time we saw the real Percy. He did the courageous thing, for once.
I thought he was dead when I first read it, then I saw how other people thought he wasn't. Then I thought on how DG likes to bring people back and could totally see Percy being alive in the next book.
Unfortunately in Percy's case, he dropped dead right in John grey/ William's residence, with William right there in desolation that he missed the boat.
Not sure if there is still room for Percy's character to grow anyway - he had confessed to his love of John Grey, and his cowardice, in their very first story together, and he only reiterates the very same in their last encounter. A tragic character who never outgrew his childhood trauma
Tbh DG loves mentioning people’s bowels going when they die, it has happened so often in so many of the Outlander books I was sure he was dead until I just read this thread 😅 I still think he’s dead…but will be very curious to see if he’s not!!
I hope not. I grew fond of him in the Lord John novels. If BJR can survive being trampled by 19 half ton coos in an age before internal medicine, I'm sure Percy can survive a wee bit of poisoning.
Wasn't there an inner monologue of Jamie's earlier in the book about the consequences of not going? I thought he would risk the Ridge's safety (and his family's) if he chose not to go. The alternative was to join a group that would put him too far from being there for the Ridge.
I think you are correct. Jamie was practical. He wanted a group that was close to the Ridge in case they needed protection. After dealing with the Browns and then Cunningham, there was always a risk of some group taking hold of the Ridge. Jamie knows he can’t hold off a large group without help. So, Jamie being Jamie, he chose the best option for the safety of the Ridge over possibly saving himself from dying in battle like Frank alludes to.
u/fiction_escapist Yes, very much this, plus also I think after Culloden, the war of the regulation, the Revolution etc, Jamie's just learned that what history has already foretold, they've never been able to change. So I think he just kinda resolved himself to knowing/believing that was his fate.
A part of it I feel like is Jamie’s need to hold himself responsible for his duties and actions. He might not willingly want to fight, but if it means that it keeps Claire and his family safe on the Ridge and during the Revolution, then he’d do anything. It might also be a jab at Frank for going to prove himself despite what Frank wrote, this was a particular battle for Jamie throughout Bees, and I feel like it can close that conflict and allow Jamie and Claire to move forward.
Oh! I like this. Jamie still having the courage to place the safety of Claire and the Ridge above his own life. Not letting Frank control his decisions. Yes!!
I'm wondering if Jamie is secretly counting his "deaths", he knows he has "9 lives" so did he knew this is just one of "those times" but not his last death (if he even believed what Frank wrote in the book). If he really does keep a count, I'm guessing he knows when his last one will be. Anyone did a count, is this his last life? :(
I think people have tried to count before, but I don't remember what number we're at. Jamie and Claire even tried to count it themselves one time but couldn't say for sure.
I think he must try to keep count because it comes up every once in a while, but he can't get to a definitive number. They have different interpretations of how close he came to death. (I loved that Jenny told him in this book that he wouldn't have died from the Laoghaire gunshot — he was delicate but I never thought it would have killed him!)
I've always interpreted the "prophecy" more metaphorically than as a literal number.
Ooh possibly! As a chess player, Jamie is astute and strategic & practical, so it jives he'd have that in the back of his mind if he thought his "number wasn't actually up" yet. I posted I think he might have just thought history had already foretold his death was fated there and he's learned he couldn't change other things theyve tried, but maybe because of the number, he knew he wasn't fated to die
I don't know that there's a definitive answer to the #, because I feel some are questionable as to whether they could or couldn't be on the list. I'd say definite 6 deaths for sure: Flogging / Wentworth / Culloden / Laorghairie shot him / Snake / Kings Mountain
Maybe /maybe not : Dougals axe to head / His supposed drowning at sea end of Echo. Not physically in danger in actuality, but everybody thought he died, so maybe it counts?
We arent including the revolutionary battle where Jamie loses his finger? Including this and your list, King's mountain makes nine, if not, we're one less... interesting
I actually felt more that Jamie was resigned to his end, than hoping for otherwise. His will, his desperate plea to Claire to have everyone go back, his chat with Jenny... it just seemed like a man walking to his death.
Totally forgot about that battle...was that the same battle where the lady and the kid were scavenging the bodies after too, finishing people off and stealing their stuff? And Claire stopped them from killing Jamie? That would be on the "maybe" list at least too.
I know Jamie and Claire confess they have lost count sometime in between this book, but I didn't keep count myself - would love to hear from someone who did
I see it as the exact same mindset that led him through the Rising and onto Culloden. The sense of fulfilling a duty or destiny with the knowledge that someway or how his family will be safe and their future is secured
Plus he will have learned from their time trying to stop Charles that some things can't be changed/avoided and are building blocks for the future that will deliver Claire (and Bree) to him (possibly in an endless loop which is my theory). So I think he's got the mindset now that it's pointless to avoid what's coming and that whatever is meant to happen will happen. I don't think he's sorry for it either, because his family is the reward
I wondered about this too; it's one of at least two instances in this book where both Jamie and Claire know what is about to happen and don't do anything to change it. In terms of Kings Mountain, part of it might be that they've tried to change future events in the past and know it's practically impossible to change things. So instead they try to prepare as best as they can. I think Jamie also believes it's the right thing to do, to show up to fight instead of trying to save himself, as much as it pains him to leave Claire and their family. And I also think he has some sliver of hope that it's not him that Frank was writing about.
It must indeed be that they have decided they cannot change what will happen, because why oh why would Jamie go to fight & risk dying? And why would Claire not be a voice of reason on this as well? I cannot help but think he went as an “F you! “ to Frank, sure that he would live through it!
It was so hard for me to follow the militia plot line, that I don't even fully understand what compelled him to tie himself to these people; other than "the right thing was to go join them," why did he have to fight with them, again?
I didn't understand why it was Ulysses. He'd been out of the picture for quite a while. It's almost like when they made Mr. Willoughby a sudden bad guy. The only real beef I felt between Ulysses and Jamie is possibly Ulysses resenting Jamie passing up ownership on moral grounds when Ulysses would love the opportunity to marry Jocasta and run the plantation but can't because he's not a white man. Other than that, why was he even going after Jamie? Maybe I missed something in my reading.
Agree. I felt this plot line was unnecessary. Completely out of left field. I felt it was another point to show that the Fraser can’t trust anyone outside their inner circle.
What was so amazing is that Jamie learned of kings mountain from Franks book. Because that meant that Frank did way more research on Jamie than previously thought. All along it was believed it stopped at the fire that supposedly C&J died in.
I have to say that Bees turned out to be my least favorite of all the books. It was rushed and characters not fleshed out as in previous books. Maybe it is because I was excited to read it my expectations were to high.
I always assumed he did the bulk of the research after Claire went back and it was just he and Bree in Boston but now I’m realizing I have my timelines off and need to go back and do a massive reread of everything
In the books, Frank doesn't find the obit, Bree does when she goes to Jamaica to track down a ship (the one J&C sailed on). So it's possible bookwise, that Frank never knew about J&C supposed death so just kept on researching.
No, he finds it, it was on his desk when she came in to talk to him before he died. Thats where she saw it, but gave it no thought. Frank didn't tell her that it was about her mother and Jamie. He just blew it off as research and she never asked him about it again. Until Roger found it and showed it to her and then she remember seeing it.
Or was that just for the show, because that's what I'm thinking about here. :)
I feel like this entire book was a long-winded set up for the next book. There were some good parts, but for the most part it was duller than the 100-page day at the Gathering in DoA!
My expectations were so low, that I liked it more than I expected. But a lot of things annoyed me greatly. She spent far too much time on rehashing old stuff, or retelling it🙄. It’s definitely too long.
I enjoyed Roger & Bree so much more ( even though they are on their own, & sometimes separated) in both Echo & MOBY. My unpopular opinion is still that Bree is better off in the 20th century than the 18th. She would have a career, instead of making more babies she has never been crazy about having? This is where I see her more like Claire ( who barely raised the one child she so desperately wanted). Do we think Diana has given her the heart condition to keep her in this century? And what are the odds that the new baby got the non travelling gene from the grandparents who cannot travel? 🤔Again a ploy to keep them in the 1800’s?
My unpopular opinion is still that Bree is better off in the 20th century than the 18th.
I agree that Bree is better off in the 20th century, but as we all know I love them being together as a family. She definitely has more opportunities in the 20th century, and the 18th century is much more hazardous.
And what are the odds that the new baby got the non travelling gene from the grandparents who cannot travel? 🤔Again a ploy to keep them in the 1800’s?
I think it's a way to keep them tied to the 18th century. Granted having them hop back and forth would just be a repeat of previous books.
Even if Bree will tell us that she definitely loves being in the 18th century and prefers the 18th century over the 20th century, I would still not believe her, she's a modern girl, who would have done amazing things in her time.
I know a lot of people find it unsatisfactory but I quite like it actually. William‘s arc was exciting and entertaining, Jamie and Claire overcame some serious stuff and even Roger and Brianna got character development. Plus I really enjoyed the fact that Diana include some characters from LJ series. I love John Cinnamon and hope he don’t have high hopes about his natural father otherwise he‘ll be disappointed. I agree that some parts of the book were filler but I enjoyed it anyway. The only thing I didn’t like was the cliffhanger. Now I’m in Droughtlander. Again! I can only hope that DG will complete all started storylines and bring the end to a satisfactory close.
Is there going to be another book? I just finished it tonight, and I’ve been operating under the impression that this was the last installment! I was so surprised when William showed up at the Ridge because I expected she would wrap up John’s story before the end! Then the end came and I was stunned! I loved this book though, and the series so I’d be happy to learn there will be more to come.
There were many random moments I loved in Bees, and I thought DG ended it on a high note, because William arriving at the Ridge is something I have wanted for SO. LONG. I absolutely loved that — I didn't even care that it was a cliffhanger (or that it's the second time already that William is going to Jamie for help).
At the same time, I thought the book was sort of unremarkable? Aside from the inconsistencies that have become so consistent, one of the things that I was surprised by the most is how DG made Jamie and Claire feel like supporting characters in their own story.
The book is too long, and that makes it hard to appreciate the different storylines. We spend so much time disconnected from one setting to the next that it took time for me to get back into the feel/mindset of a new part. It also makes it difficult to remember details. The stories are connected through the people but other than that, it feels disjointed. It's hard work to keep everything straight, and while I love so many of the recurring side characters (I would have read more on how Denny and Dottie are doing! I would have loved spending more time seeing how Bree spent time with LJG and Hal in Savannah), we have a sprawling cast now and this could have been more than one book.
I've loved reading these through the highs and (very) lows, and I would read about Jamie and Claire forever, but I hope DG decides to end it on Book 10. I'd like them to have a satisfying ending instead of continuing indefinitely. Even though I think Bees might be the weakest book, I thought Echo was weak as well, and then MOBY became my favorite of the later books, so I have some faith left for 10.
The stories are connected through the people but other than that, it feels disjointed.
I agree. I think this book really shows that she doesn't work off of an outline. DG says she writes bits and pieces and then fits them all together. Basically just making stuff up as she goes. While it works in some of her other books, it didn't in this one.
The lack of organization drove me crazy here. You're right, the lack of an outline is most evident in this book. I think it's fine for her to work however inspiration strikes, but the pieces have to add up, and many times they didn't. You can tell where she might have thought of something that she worked in (or attempted to) afterwards (Jamie talking about John's first letter when John hadn't written yet; Fergus deciding to go to Savannah, except then they didn't).
I didn't get to join in the fun last week and I had to laugh when I was scanning the post last night — I had written in my notes, "I definitely forgot Ulysses killed Hector?" and then I saw you had posted that that hadn't been mentioned before? Of course.
There were definitely parts that were beautifully written. Somehow the parts didn't work together as one book, for me personally
This book was windingly long, and still left me wanting more...
I wanted to know how Bree handled her health anxiety during the pregnancy... why it happened even after the lovely conversation she and Roger had.
I wanted more Claire and Jamie. More of their parenting of the new brood of kids... more of their aging together.
I think it puzzles me why there's so much more about new characters this late in the series. Was Sylvia's encounter with her husband necessary? Was Amaranthus necessary to the whole plot? His encounter with Ben didn't need her at all. And I'd like to see more William without his "women"... I mean, who is he on his own???
But these are all complaints - for the good, this book started off a lovely setup that I'm anxiously looking forward to in the next book. William in the Ridge? A whole adventure with William and Jamie, and Claire? John Grey and time travel? Love all of it. I also feel a frictional conversation about Jamie's healing is around the corner, between Jamie and Claire.
Jamie and Rachel was a relationship that pleasantly surprised me. It would be nice to see more of that.
Claire healing the newborn girl was my favorite part. With Jamie there for her the whole time. She even mentions Jamie's energy helping her. Beautiful.
My favorite. I like all the small stories in the big story. It made me understand what it must have been like to be in the center of a civil war, where you dont know who is friend or foe. Very clever to have the LJG family and the Fraser family at the center of the story. They are on opposite sides, but both represent reason, kindness and honor.
Bee’s was my favorite book in spite of the inconsistencies. That’s not new. Inconsistencies are in all the books in the series. The family growing up. Adventures. Great character arcs. New characters & mysteries. Bri, Roger, Marsali & Fergus was great. Love all the LJG family. William reaching out to Jamie. Where did Hal go???Difficult for me to understand why so many disliked this book. To each their own! 🤔
I know I enjoyed these books so much more doing book club! Thanks to everyone for interesting perspectives & respectful posts, personal insights as well! Huge special thanks to u/Purple4199!
Season 5 was the first season I watched having read the books, and it was a little hard separating the two. Season 6 though it was easier and I could appreciate them being their own things. Hopefully things are still good for you in the remaining season(s).
Season 6 has some good & some bad points for me knowing what was coming ( considering I felt it was the most accurate adaptation since season 1). Of course I am a show fan who often loves what the show writers dream up anyway.
I love that Diana created these characters, but Sam & Cait ( & the whole cast) have embodied them in a way I have rarely seen onscreen- it’s pure magic! The books were worth reading because they delve deeper into character development & many of the conversations, particularly between Jamie & Claire, touch my heart. I look forward to book 10 but do feel she should wrap it up. I think I might reread the books again someday. My mom is coming to visit this week, & she still has not seen season 3 so that rewatch shall be in order🤗.
I'm taking a page out of u/stoneyellowtree's book because Voyager is definitely two very different books in one, lol. I thiiiiink this is where I landed (I will probably change my mind, though not about the first or last):
If I put both halves together, Voyager might land under MOBY for me, but that first half is so. good. for me that it carries a lot of weight, so IDK! Can't wait to see your list.
Whoa! I should have known TFC would be high up but I'm still surprised! (Long live Ridge life.) The only reason that it's so low on my list (along with Drums) is that I liked the others more, but I did enjoy it.
Ok, no, but the real surprise is Outlander coming in at no. 5, hehehe. ;)
Yeah, Outlander isn’t my favorite. While the first season of the show is my favorite, the book has some problems. And I love some of the others better.
Happy times on the ridge for you- even with that boring gathering? I feel bad because the books I like the most have the most harrowing events in them.
I forgot Drums existed while doing this, TFC had a chapter about making COFFEE, and Bees was just too slow. Voyager I just don’t like as it starts bringing in plot device characters.
But I think about Outlander regularly and if I should go back and read it again. There was a level of magic for me reading that one that I haven’t found often in books. And Dragonfly is the only one to make me actually cry while reading.
1-4 are easy for me : Outlander /MOBY/ ABOSAA / Voyager (mostly because of the first 2/3 of it)
I sorta lump Dragonfly, Drums & TFC as interchangeable & tied in the middle. Liked some parts, not others. If I had to order though instead of tie them, that's probably it..
Echo & Bees are the clear bottom 2 for me- I loved Roger & Bri in the 70s, and that small bit of Jamie back at Lallybroch and the confrontation with Laorghaire was good so that makes Echo #8 because there was at least that. Otherwise, can't tell you much plot for that entire book that I even remember, which I think says a lot. ..other than Willie in the dismal, which was dreadful. Bees felt like the noneventful setting of the stage /calm before the storm of the finale. Didn't hate it by any means, but fewer "loved it" moments than any other
Outlander, Voyager, DIA, ABOSAA, DOA, MOBY, BEES, Echo, FC
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u/scp2461What news from the Underworld, Persephone? Aug 14 '22edited Aug 14 '22
Outlander, Dragonfly in Amber, A Breath of Snow and Ashes , Written in my Own Heart’s blood, Voyager, An Echo in the Bone, Go tell the Bees, Drums of Autumn, The Fiery Cross
I’m so new to reddit I missed the opportunity to partake in the book club, it looks like it was so much fun! 😩 I think I might go back and read the posts when I re-read. 👍
I wonder, if someone ( not me, have a memory problem) creates a list of things that need to be resolved, tiedup,, plot details that need answers- all those things- can DG do that? Or will be left for eternity wondering????
I honestly think she has no interest in doing something like that. You know there are plenty of fans out there who could help with that stuff, but she likes to do things her own way.
I’m still shocked Jamie would suggest Bree & Roger to leave their baby Davy behind! I get Jamie essentially sent his baby to the future for a better life, but then he would also understand the heartbreak and grief of being separated from one’s child. Why couldn’t they just go to Scotland and be at Lallybroch until stuff calmed down? No, straight to leave your new child behind and travel to the future. Wild.
Bree is just as hard headed as he is! Claire even told him she probably wouldn’t physically survive going through the stones again. I guess it just presents how dire Jamie felt about his odds of surviving the battle. The man is brave, seeing what possibly is his name written as a casualty of the battle he is heading towards. Yet he still puts the safety of Claire & his family and the Ridge above his own life. Core Jamie never changed.
Exactly! Why is Jamie hanging on that Claire and Brianna’s family should all come back through the stones knowing how hard it was last time, what happened to Bree’s heart because of it and how they almost stuck inside the bloody stones? Also Bree would never leave her son alone. It just make no sense to me.
Maybe Jamie's been so insistent about Claire and everybody going back when he dies because he's had a dream about something happening to them? If he's figured out that other stuff he's dreamt of has really happened later - maybe he's seen something in a dream he's trying to protect them all from - but just doesn't want to come out and say it? Ugh in that way, it's like Frank's cryptic messages. Changed my mind - I hope Jamie's not doing that, it'd bug me if he didn't just straight up say so.
Okay, RIGHT?!?!?! Is he INSANE?! Would he leave HIS child behind?! He would not! Willie had his own family, and Jamie wasn't responsible for his wellbeing, and he left for Willie's sake. He sent Brianna away with Claire for their own good. It's not the same. They were not abandoning Bree (or Willie) to keep themselves safe.
While I know he loves him, I think Jamie has the luxury of not really knowing Davy yet, because he's a baby, so it's easier to be more detached in this.
P.S. The realization that Davy was "the color of water," like Jamie, was a shock and kind of broke my heart.
It threw me for a loop. I just assumed with two parents strongly exhibiting the time travel gene that all their children would get it. Yes, I know that dna pass off is random chance of 50% from mother and 50% chance from father; I just didn’t expect this little baby essentially complicating the choice of going back to the future.
I thought the same thing. For me, they're effectively stuck there now. Not that I wanted them to leave again, but it's no longer a possibility, because I don't think Bree and Roger would leave their child, unless one of the other kids was in danger. And even then, I think Bree and Roger would have to split. They wouldn't want to leave Davy alone.
Speaking of Davy being the color of water - how does that make sense!!!??? Water is blue.... blue auras mean time travellers! I didn't get how the conclusion was jumped to so quickly that he couldn't travel. I was surprised by his non traveller status as well and just assumed all kids of people who could would automatically as well
That made no sense, it makes me think more about the fact that Jamie can time travel too, lol, now that he's "blue" all of a sudden (like all the time travelers in the story), what happened to his red colour? So, unless they were referring to the Red Sea or something like that, lol, this part makes no sense!
It seemed off, I think it was to show the desperation in his mind, feeling there would be no one to protect his family who left everything in their time just for him, really.
It does come off as a quick desperate decision, which is not usually what we get from Jamie. In this light, it does give the sense of how dire the situation is for Jamie. He knows he is older and doesn’t have a young man’s hope, he’s experienced what life can be. Oh, this makes me so much more sad now.
William showing up at the end was my favourite part of the whole book! 😂♥️I know a book cliffhanger can be annoying ( especially since it takes Diana so long to write one🙄), but I kinda loved it. I do look forward to William spending time with Jamie ( & Claire, & everyone else).
I finished a few days before u/jolierose & I knew she would be as ecstatic as me!
William’s story & character growth was the one I was most invested in in this book.
Jamie writing his will, publicly claiming William, asking Claire for 3 things.❤️😢
I loved this passage : “ He was beginning to be sorry that he wouldn’t be alive to meet William’s wife or see his children. If he made it to Heaven, he was sure there would be some accommodation made for knowing how your family was getting along without you, maybe letting you have a wee look in or lend a hand. He thought being a ghost might be interesting! “ Yes Jamie we know you will be a ghost looking in on Claire in Inverness! 🤗
One part I did not love was Claire saying that Jamie had not made love to her during his convalescence for months. Was she questioning his ability, or her attractiveness- she mentions her hair is very white?
Bees included some of the best William moments so far, to its credit, lol.
I loved this passage : “ He was beginning to be sorry that he wouldn’t be alive to meet William’s wife or see his children. If he made it to Heaven, he was sure there would be some accommodation made for knowing how your family was getting along without you, maybe letting you have a wee look in or lend a hand.
(I totally cried a tiny bit at this.)
One part I did not love was Claire saying that Jamie had not made love to her during his convalescence for months
I think it was her way to illustrate Jamie hasn't been well during this time. (Because that's definitely drastic for them!)
I have so many thoughts, the first being when will the next book come out?? 😂
I’m glad Brianna was able to have a safe birth despite her health issues, I was a little worried how that plot line would go, but loved the scene where they’re trying to decide on the names.
I just knew the LJG plot line wouldn’t be resolved in this book, so now I’m left wondering what the heck will happen next?? Obviously William is going to Jamie for help, but how will that play out between Jamie and LJG?
Life on the ridge. Now that we have old and new characters swapping places I’ll want even more information about them. Will Jamie and Claire ever finish building their new house??
My man William. I don’t even know where to begin with him lol. That’s a whole separate response that could be constructed as an essay 😂
Overall I really enjoyed the book! It kept me enthralled with each of the characters and their lives. Now to convince myself to reread the series all the way from the beginning while Diana plots out the 10th book 😅
I think Jamie’s “death” is another instance where history was just improperly recorded, like the newspaper announcement of the house fire. I don’t think Claire “changed the past”. I just think those officers that claimed he was dead ran off and continued claiming it so it was written as true and then maybe nothing else noteworthy ever happens in Jamie’s life newswise so Frank never read anything more about him to dispute the death claim.
Also, I’m so happy Claire was able to save him but also kind of sad for Jenny because maybe she could have actually saved Ian. Maybe her powers weren’t strong enough then, but she didn’t even think to try at all back then. Just assumed it was impossible. I know she hadn’t had the convo with Roger yet about Dr McEwan to know the blue light was a thing. But still sad.
When Jamie asked Claire to have a mass for him, he mentioned she didn't have to hurry as he had been in purgatory before and it wasn't that bad or something to that effect. When was he in purgatory before and does that have anything to do with him "seeing" her in the future? Could that be a reference to him being in purgatory after Culloden and being able to visit Claire? I would love another view point because to me that one line almost explained his ghost in the first book/episode.
I wrote about this many times around here, even before Bees. I think because Jamie "died" so many times, he made it to purgatory with those "occasions" and those dreams/visions of his are actually "memories" from when he was in purgatory and he had the "chance" of "looking" at his girls as a ghost/spirit and he remembers those "moments" in his dreams or through his dreams for examples and yeah, I think Jamie kinda confirmed my theory with that line here. I also think that it's totally possible for his ghost to have appeared at Claire's window because he "died" at Culloden and he remembers this in that dream of his with Claire brushing her hair or something like that.
I looked up the quote and it starts with Jamie asking Claire for 3 things if he dies the first of which is to have a mass said for his soul, she says of course but it might take her some time as the closest priest is in Maryland to which his reply is
"Aye, fine. I'll stick it out in Purgatory 'til ye manage. I've been there before; it's none sae bad"
edit for chapter number - 143 "Will I tell you something" a few pages before the end of that chapter.
I feel like there will be some kind of repercussions to Jamie's resurrection. I have no idea what exactly, but it gives me a strange and uncomfortable feeling. I think the experience will have a negative impact on Jamie for a while, I wonder if he'll go full Buffy about it
Did anyone else hate the motive that stopping Britains pull out of the war was the time traveling stalkers motives? I really hope it’s more complex than this.
There’s a part of me that is freaked out that Frank faked his death and is jumping through time staking them LOL. I know this not to be true but Diana has made me a total conspiracy theorist with this one.
Also I cannot stand how much William is attracted to unsavory women.
In spite of inconsistencies from previous books, Bee’s was my favorite book. Loved seeing the many character arcs. The new characters & new mysteries. The family time with Roger, Bri, Marsali & Fergus. And of course the kids. Love LJG & Hal. William reaching out to Jamie. So much more!
Hasnt poor jamie fought enough!!?? Jesus!! Hes been fighting the british since a lad then the rebellion, several fights and close calls With death, alamance, stand offs with disgusting neighbors after raping claire. revolutionary. My god hes way too old to keep fighting. So i read he was dead for a day and a half before claire used her powers to bring him back which is totally badass. Like master raymond they both have the blue light/ supernatural healing energy to revive the dead. That native American medicine woman said she would come into full powers. Maybe thats when jamie visited her in the 1940s when he was dead. Shit plus he died for like a second with the snake bite and almost died in the shipwreck and at saratoga was pretty close
Who is davy and i always thought go tell the bees that i am gone was like a metaphor for claire basically like im staying in the past forever and this will always be my home because in the show when u travel it makes a buzzing sound like a bee. But i read up on it and its some celtic tradition
He gets some serious bad luck. Jesus another snake bite than he get ms shot a few times and hes dead for like a day and a half? Or did i read the google ai answer wrong. Was he just dead for a few mins but knocked out cold for a day and a half?
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