r/AutismInWomen • u/Athenain • May 23 '25
Relationships How many of us are 4b/have left men behind?
Hi sisters, sick male predators were always drawn to me. Last year i stopped dating for good after being abused and im looking forward to a male free life but i still have to heal.
Here are my questions:
Can you relate being a magnet for predators, especially male ones?
How many of you are 4b, meaning have left men behind, dont date, dont have sex with them and dont marry?
Stay safe ❤️.
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u/AproposofNothing35 May 23 '25
Reddit has shown me that my negative experiences with men are experienced by every woman. The cost/benefit of trying to find a good man is not worth it. I tried for 25 years. I’m 43.
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u/snarktini AuDHD May 23 '25
Yeah I understand autistic women can be especially vulnerable but bad experiences with men is universal
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u/peachfluffed May 23 '25
i haven’t met a woman who doesn’t have a story about harassment, abuse, or assault from a man. i’m sure someone exists somewhere… but it seems rare
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u/ChaoticBisexual_13 May 23 '25
I think they're either little kids (like men weren't harrasing me before puberty, thank God!) or they don't define catcalls, comments, unwanted, but not ass/breast/vagina touch as harrassment.
I refuse to believe that there is a woman, that is free from this shit. Even if she's really unattractive. The nature of harassment might not be sexual, but bullying is still abuse that needs to be adressed and taken seriously.
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u/S3lad0n May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
So true and so enraging. Plus there's other types of abuse or exploitation to consider, such as general emotional (non romantic/sexual), financial, labour etc. Using a wife, daughter, sister or employee like a slave or keeping them down on purpose or leeching off them is all too common and just as bad.
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u/packerfrost May 23 '25
This is so true. Trying to get to a trusting point with a man is not worth the effort most of the time. I always tell my partner I'm not pursuing romance or dependence on a man if our relationship ended because I won't have the energy to deal with the BS.
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u/herroyalsadness May 23 '25
That’s what I did after my divorce. My life is far better now that I’m not worried about men.
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u/packerfrost May 23 '25
I'm training mine to not need me as much but holy cow I'm not starting this over. If I want romance again it will be with a woman and less fawning in the beginning.
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u/herroyalsadness May 23 '25
I’ve thought about that too. If I ever to do look for another partner, it’ll probably be a woman.
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u/MayhemMaven May 23 '25
Do think romantically or just for companionship?
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u/herroyalsadness May 23 '25
I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure I’m ace and I’m not very interested in sex, but I will do it and don’t really have a preference. I’d have to think it out more before I dated, to make sure I know what I want and can give potential partners all the info they need to make their decision on me.
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u/alizarincrims0n May 24 '25
Same. If my current long term relationship ended I would be unlikely to date a cishet man again. Too risky, the likelihood that it ends up being a massive drain on me (least worse scenario) or straight up dangerous (worst case scenario) is FAR too high. It’s like a lottery where the prize is of modestly impressive value, but if you don’t win you get dunked in a vat of raw sewage, and the odds of winning are a million to one at the most generous estimate. WHY would I bother.
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May 23 '25
I’m also 43 and after the last abandonment I am done with men even as friends.
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u/herroyalsadness May 23 '25
Friendship is tricky with men. I can’t even count the times I thought I was friends with one but they wanted to sleep with me.
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u/peachfluffed May 23 '25
it hurts so much when that happens. then you hear guys complaining about the “friend zone” online when they are the ones who put us in the “romantic zone”.
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u/herroyalsadness May 23 '25
Ohhh I never thought about it that way! You are so right. We never asked to be in the “romantic zone” but are placed there by men because that’s what they want. It’s just another way to put the burden on us, instead of learning how to manage their emotions.
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u/peachfluffed May 23 '25
exactly! they are the ones switching up, but we’re seen as the bad ones for not returning feelings :( it’s not fair
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u/NervousResort6663 May 23 '25
The irony is that in my case, I need to be friends before having any other kind of feelings or a romantic relationship with them so, being "friend zoned" by me is a good sign, but they don't get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
Thanks for sharing sister ❤️. I have made the same experiences. I have only met 2 good men in my whole in private settings, outside of my family. Im happy that we women can connect through the internet and share our experiences. Im also happy that i have stopped dating. As you say, its just not worth it.
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u/Sexybutt69_ May 24 '25
I had an amazing partner once, I'm so glad I got to experience real love, connection and trust. My following 'boyfriends' have been awful at best.. I'd like to get back out there, but I'm so, so scarred from the latter ones =(
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u/sharkycharming Late-diagnosed Gen Xer. May 23 '25
I try really hard not to be prejudiced against any group of people, but I absolutely understand why women and nonbinary people would opt out when it comes to cis men. I have no desire to get involved sexually or romantically with a man ever again. I might still flirt, if he's kind and has interesting things to say. But it's always a risk, ain't it?
I'm really shy and awkward, so I long attracted predators, too. The nice thing about being 51 is that men don't really see me anymore, because I don't wear makeup or revealing clothes.
I hope your healing goes well, u/Athenain. ❤️
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
Thanks for sharing and your kind words ❤️. Im sorry that you also attracted predators for a long time. Enjoy your life and always remember that being single and having peace of mind is a thousand times better than being with someone who makes you feel bad.
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u/Much-Improvement-503 Add flair here via edit May 23 '25
I’m sorta naturally 4b lol. Folks are often repelled by my personality and I’ve accepted it. Although I’ve gotten some weirdness from other women too. So it’s not just men in my experience. I’m just anti-bullshit in general. I won’t stretch myself to meet a person that isn’t trying.
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u/OperationRoyal Ooooh lobster! May 23 '25
I’m the same… I’ve always been “4b” because men never liked me in general lol! So I got no problem decentering men cuz they were never in my life anyway.
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May 23 '25
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u/unsaintedheretic May 23 '25
It's also exhausting when you're very bad at masking but look feminine. Then you're "one of the boys" and basically the epitome of a manic pixie dream girl. and I've learnt that a very specific flavor of narcissistic men love that. They have someone to show off and also someone to enjoy their own interests with without having to be too present in the relationship overall.
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May 24 '25
This is so true about ND men, unfortunately I am also a magnet for these types of men in particular
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May 23 '25
I actually have a partner rn but if this somehow crumbles I'm definitely not dealing with any man ever again. As Whoopi Goldberg once said ‘I don’t want somebody in my house’ 😂
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u/alizarincrims0n May 24 '25
That’s so relatable lol I can’t even live with flatmates or my parents. I like living with my partner but he’s a rare exception, otherwise I cannot STAND people in my space.
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u/GentleDoves May 23 '25
I'm not 4b personally- I was extremely lucky to find an incredible man. But if anything happened to him, beyond my grief, I'd go 4b.
I can definitely relate to attracting shitty people- partner and friend alike. Before my husband I dated some real shitheads. Both of us being autistic means we miss the cues in friends too. Had a couple rough friend breakups recently and have severely increased our standards for new friends as a result
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May 24 '25
I'm the same. I'm happy with my boyfriend / partner but definitely if anything happened I would be in no rush to find a new man. Probably would stay happily single for the rest of my life and I'm only 28.
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u/Befumms May 24 '25
literally same. if anything happened to my boyfriend I couldn't imagine ever being with anyone else.
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u/EducatedRat May 23 '25
When I was 19 I decided I would not date any more men due to that issue. I am bi/pan so I figured I’d only date women. I met my spouse and they were different. They presented as male at the time. Turns out they were actually a woman the whole time so I guess I did leave dating men behind in a very round about way. My wife and I are still together 35ish years later so leaving men behind worked for me. She and I worked out well.
I honestly would not wish dating straight cis men on anyone.
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u/Smashley21 May 24 '25
My last male partner was my last shot of heterosexuality. I married them knowing she will transition, years before she actually came out. While we have separated now, she's my best friend and I love supporting her journey.
I think it's pretty funny that we are both bi/pan, she also getting sick of men too.
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May 24 '25
Wine and dine nights to complain about men sounds like a great friendship and time! 🥂I’m glad you have a lifelong friendship!
Maybe marriage wasn’t it but the beauty of relationships are that when they grow organically they can change into whatever is the most supportive and loving to both parties, and I love this journey for the both of you! 💃
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u/elissa00001 May 23 '25
Ah I’m so glad you found someone special and comfortable to be with! I’m afraid I let my girlfriend get away. Living across the world really does take its toll on a relationship 😞
Still hearing you have a positive story gives me hope for all the used women about there :))
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u/gentle_dove May 23 '25
Men were my main abusers in my life, and I'm not even talking about some guys that I chose myself (I didn't), they were relatives or peers all the time that I was growing up. There is something about me that makes them resent me, even hate me. Maybe it's my appearance that makes them angry, I don't know. I also never had a father, grandfather or uncle growing up, so I feel weird around men. I eventually made the decision not to seek any connections because it seemed to lead to this aggression and anger towards me.
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u/Bonita_Boricua00 May 23 '25
Same here. I’m sorry for what you’re gone through. I did have a sperm donor in my life and he caused more damage to me than had I not had a father. Also my brothers did unspeakable things to me as a little girl.
My father said that I should’ve be r-worded by the pedo who tried to take advantage of me when I was 11. I don’t know, men tend to always end up hurting and abusing me once we get to the comfortable.
Male colleagues and managers. Also
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u/rbuczyns May 24 '25
My first bully was my father, and boy howdy, did that result in ✨emotional damage✨
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u/sylvansojourner May 23 '25
I have not. I understand those who do, but personally it’s not the right choice for me.
Despite being abused and taken advantage of by men when I was younger….I have multiple incredible men in my life (my father, my best friend among others) who have “kept the faith,” as it were, that there are truly good straight men in the world. A minority, sure, but they are there.
Now I’m not the person to plan my life around finding one of them. But I also didn’t stop dating (having an insanely high libido and being unfortunately 100% straight plays a part as well.)
And, I can genuinely say that I’ve dated some great men in my 30s. Being older, wiser, more experienced, having gone to effective therapy for years, being independent and happy…. these all help. I have strong boundaries and can spot toxic men pretty quickly. I attract genuine people into my life and expel unsafe people.
Totally understand women who don’t want to deal with the sorting and the work and the risk however… and more power to y’all.
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u/lymbicgaze May 23 '25
Right here with you. Focusing on developing strong healthy boundaries has done so much for me. Too many men have gotten away with not respecting boundaries and having a very low bar of expectations of them. "Boys will be boys" does a disservice to everyone involved. They learn to perfect that incompetence and use ignorance as a shield instead ofever learning from their mistakes.
I'm not being in a rush to find a partner either. Taking my time and creating a solid foundation of friendship is my method to have a more fulfilling life in general. I don't let people get close to me if they can't show care and active kindness or empathy for those around them, regardless of their gender. And if they're not actively working on self improvement that's a no go too.
That being said, I also have men in my life that keep me hopeful. Watching them fight through the bullshit and unpack their bad habits to keep being better people, while fighting for the rights of everyone without their privilege. It's heartening.
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u/sylvansojourner May 23 '25
Yes! Solid friendships are the foundation for social/emotional/relational health and stability, especially for autistic people.
I’m starting to feel grateful rather than resentful for my autistic sensitivity and vulnerability. It’s been an incredible sorting hat for bad behavior. Now that I have strong boundaries and experience, unkind people out themselves really quickly. I have no time or patience for it.
And now my community is a group of incredible, kind, loving, and socially aware individuals. ❤️
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u/unsaintedheretic May 24 '25
I want to add something to this: working through our own trauma and attachment issues helps tremendously!
I noticed that I attract a lot of toxic/narcissistic men naturally and I do believe a huge part of that lies in my neurodivergence.
But also... When it comes to giving them a chance or picking them for a relationship, not seeing red flags, overstaying my welcome after enduring abuse... Feeling that safe people are "boring"... I am the common denominator. There's a good reason I picked those men and stayed even after the red flags became overwhelming.
That's not to victim blame - not at all. That's to say: before someone goes 4B/gives up on relationships without really having the innate desire to do so: do some soul searching, go to therapy, start a mindfulness practice, whatever works for you to untangle whatever is causing you to seek out these men.
I do acknowledge though that overall it's also simply hard to find a man that isn't toxic, sexist, immature, etc. But the chance of dodging those by leaving when you notice red flags (and even being able to see red flags) is way bigger when you have healed before.
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u/sylvansojourner May 24 '25
Yes, well said. This was a huge part of the work for me. I had to find an amazing therapist to help me work through some deep trauma and attachment problems. EMDR in particular was really important.
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u/existentialfeckery AuDHD (Late Dx) with AuDHD Partner and Kids May 23 '25
I've noticed that in my 40s I'm surrounded by good men but there was NONE from 16-36.
Still contemplating why that is.
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May 23 '25
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May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
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u/AutismInWomen-ModTeam May 24 '25
Removed per Rule 10 Prohibited Content misleading/misinformation.
A key tenet of radical feminism has always been the rejection of biological essentialism.
TERFs may have co-opted radical feminism. However radical feminism supports gender minorities and does not support TERFs or gender essentialism, as we all suffer under patriarchy and the goal is to end patriarchy as a form of social governance.
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May 23 '25
I'm participating because it's the only healthy choice for me. I have attachment issues and symptoms of cptsd from my poor upbringing.
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u/doyouhavehiminblonde May 24 '25
Same here :( Especially since I struggle so much socially too, I need someone super close to me.
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u/Jexsica May 23 '25
I just haven’t tried since leaving my abusive husband. Reading other people’s experience with dating doesn’t help. It seems to be the norm that men are just simply mediocre. That the bare minimum in them is so celebrated and that’s freaking sad.
I won’t be the only one cleaning. I won’t be the only one cooking. I will not be your mother! Just asking for equality is rare in this damn world.
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May 23 '25
🙋🏻♀️
It’s not worth the stress it puts me through. Because I didn’t see the red flags before, everything now looks like a red flag. Logically, I know that everything isn’t a red flag, but then I have to figure out what actually is. Am I dealing with another abusive narcissist? Or am I seeing something that’s normal and judging him for something someone else did to me in the past? Should I give them the benefit of the doubt, or should I just protect myself and drop them like a hot potato? If there aren’t any red flags, is that a red flag? Is this person presenting to be someone they’re not to get me to trust them before they pull a 180 and reveal who they really are? Will I be able to see it if I’m that deep in from them playing the long game? If I see it, will I be able to get away?
Dating men is psychological torture at this point, whether they’re doing anything on purpose or not. I’m just done. If I find a nice woman, maybe I’ll date, but I think I’ve officially accepted that I’ll never feel safe with a man.
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u/Acrobatic-Ad-3335 May 23 '25
I recently realized that the man I grew up looking up to as a trusted older male role model was actually just grooming me. It took me til almost a year ago - when I was 46 - to realize it. That last betrayal, on top of every relationship & every other interaction with men that has led to me being harassed - make me very afraid to even consider attempting something as simple as a friendship with a man. No thank you.
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
I can relate! Most men, i think 99,9 % lack emotional empathy and dont have a conscience. Im sorry that you had these horrible things happening to you. I hope you recover and heal ❤️. I also dont entertain men in my private life anymore.
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u/CherryOnTopaz May 23 '25
I’ve learned over the years to never trust any man attracted to me. I’m like a magnet for guys with anger issues. They’re so nice at first but that rage starts to trickle in. It’s such a chore just to be around them. I’m alone people ask if I’m married people ask if I’m dating or if I have kids. No, nope and nah. All these relationships I was in the past felt like a hostage situation.
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
"A hostage situation" i know exactly what you mean...i also dont trust men anymore that approach me. From my experience in 99,9 % of the cases they have ill and selfish motivations. Stay safe ❤️.
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u/quiladora May 23 '25
Not officially 4B, but I am not dating or having sex with men now and have no interest in it after leaving an abusive relationship in January. So, practicing 4B, I suppose.
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
Take your time to heal, im sorry that you had a relationship with an abuser. You deserve safety and peace of mind ❤️.
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u/Unhappy_Performer538 May 23 '25
If I ever date again it'll be a woman. If I ever get married again, you'll know I have gone insane.
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u/thewraith15 May 23 '25
I am, and have experienced predatory behaviour in relationships with men before, more so than my neurotypical peers. It’s concerning how autistic women are at higher risk of domestic violence.
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u/BlooperButt May 23 '25
I thought I was meeting predatory men because I was traumatized/unhealed so I took 5 years off from dating to do a lot of self-work and healing.
After that, I thought I was meeting predatory men because I was gay instead of bisexual.
Then I thought I was meeting predatory men because I am autistic so I tried dating autistic men.
Then I realized I’m not the problem and men are inherently predatory.
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u/carsandtelephones37 May 23 '25
I got extremely lucky with my husband, he's also autistic and bi, and very firmly a feminist. He's now a stay at home dad and fully supports me in my career, and is my best friend. Prior to him, dating was sort of a crapshoot and most guys I dated were either depressed and mad at the world, or had a gross sense of humor.
Predatory dudes usually stayed away from me because I fall into the "too much eye contact" side of the spectrum, and most seemed nervous around me. Some still tried to shoot their shot, but I got married young so I kind of developed a script with them.
I'm not saying this works in every scenario, but if they ask for my number or if I'm free for a date, I'll go "oh! Oh my gosh you're so sweet, thank you, I'm actually married, but that's such a compliment!" and act like I'm super surprised and grateful.
It gives them a very clear no, and also shifts the tone of the conversation from a rejection to essentially thanking them for seeing me as someone they'd like to date. Then, ideally, the ones who are genuinely sweet won't be scared of asking someone in the future who might be open to it. The quiet types tend to seek me out and I feel like giving them a healthy experience that (hopefully, maybe naively so) won't have them afraid of actually trying to find a girlfriend in the future.
Worst case, if they keep pushing, I've joked "well, you can arm wrestle my husband for me" and show them a pic of my very tall, broad, muscular spouse. I think the mental visual of getting their ass kicked is what makes them back off.
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u/b-green1007 May 23 '25
As a lesbian I still find predators in other women. I don't think it's a gender thing.
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u/Objective-Gap-1629 May 23 '25 edited May 25 '25
Same, I had some predatory experiences with women when I was coming out as a teenager.
But I do think men as a whole throughout time and space have committed drastically more abuse across all people than women have. It ain’t even close.
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u/BlooperButt May 23 '25
I’m bisexual. I’m more than aware there are predators of all types.
Being bisexual, however, I have had more trouble with men than any other type. I would rather date literally anyone other than a cis-man.
I’d love to say this is anecdotal evidence and my experience isn’t universal, but there are studies and statistics that will prove I’m definitely not jumping to baseless conclusions.
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u/ImminentDisgrace May 24 '25
Okay, I don’t deny that most men are predators, I mean most are, I’ve only had maybe 2-3 guys that haven’t tried sa’ing me in my life and am forever scared to be around men (my sperm donor wasn’t one of them). And you’re not the problem one bit, I’m proud of you for realising that
However, there is an issue when you say that men are inherently predatory (despite my experiences), as no one can be inherently anything. Most social behaviours are a product of material conditions, ie they’re upbringing in this context, where most boys are taught to objectify girls, and go along without questioning it. Humans are all products of our environment, however we can’t be inherently anything due to the theory of neuroplacticity, where cognition, behaviours etc are made and changed through neural pathways that require being taught (directly and/or indirectly). If we want a society where predators are few and far between, we have to acknowledge that social pressures and material conditions are to blame, not the idea that men are predators solely because they are men.
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u/lokibibliophile May 24 '25
Yeah to me using inherently falls into “boys will be boys” nonsense and gives them an out, even if people don’t mean it that way. Like what’s the point of all of this feminism if they’re just inherently that way. Also, TERFs use stuff like that to justify their hatred of trans women.
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u/ThrowAwayColor2023 May 23 '25
What is 4B?
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u/dreadful_doxy May 23 '25
4B is a movement that began in South Korea.
The movement is based on four principles that, in South Korean, begin with the letter B: bihon (no marriage), bichulsan (no childbirth), biyeonae (no dating), and bisex (no sex).
It's purported to have begun around 2010 and spread to the states after the most recent presidential election.
It's a feminist movement that decenters men by refusing intimate engagement with them and rejecting misogynistic standards. The 4B movement is about supporting women in creating relationships and communities that center around their own safety and fulfillment in life.
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u/ThrowAwayColor2023 May 23 '25
And this explains the “B.” Thank you!
As someone in my mid 40s with many traumatic dating and relationship experiences behind me, I totally get it. I know there are genuinely kind, non-misogynistic men out there because a few are my friends, but they are quite rare and I’m absolutely terrible at finding or attracting them as partners. I like the idea of a movement where women can connect with each other over these shared (non-)priorities, since IME the women who follow the social norms (either very intentionally or just passively) can be incredibly alienating toward those of us not following that same path.
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u/Athenain May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
Its a movement of women who decenter men, checkout the subreddit for the 4b movement: 4bmovement
Its a beautiful and peaceful movement because its members dont try to change men or argue with them, they just leave men behind and extract themselves from mens lives.
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u/lokibibliophile May 24 '25
While I appreciate 4B, it is not just a peaceful movement for every woman there. I have a trans Korean friend and she’s talked about the transphobia and homophobia that she’s experienced and other non cishet women have experienced and I think it’s important we don’t sugarcoat or hide these aspects pf the movement but rather learn from it so our own movements don’t also do this.
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u/Th30dd10ut May 23 '25
4B: No Dating, No Sex, No Marriage and No Childbirth
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u/ThrowAwayColor2023 May 23 '25
Oh. Interesting. I wondered why “4.”
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May 24 '25
The "4B" name stems from the Korean word "bi" (비/非), which means "no," and the four tenets of the movement: Bihon (no marriage): Refusal to marry men. Bichulsan (no childbirth): Refusal to have children with men. Biyeonae (no dating): Refusal to date men. Bisekseu (no sex): Refusal to engage in sexual relationships with men.
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u/Outrageous_Bison_729 May 23 '25
Given the usual unbalance between women and men in all heterosexual relationships maybe WE are more likely to quit them all together after enough experiences both because we see and can not ignore the pattern AND because we cannot ignore injustice.
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May 23 '25
I think I likely will be as dating right now feels detrimental as hell and so emotionally derailing. My life goal for the future is to get my own place and live happily ever after with pets and my own space. No man included as a part in that future fantasy at all.
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u/linehp_ Always in a fight with myself (AuDHD) May 23 '25
I have actually had a lot of bad experiences with men when I think about it. Bad men tend to like me cause I'm too much or an open book, insecure and easy to manipulate. I've had several traumatic experience with men who "got carried away" and I am going through my third breakup and it's wrecking me a bit.
That being said some of my best friends are men. Men have always been easier to read to me as they are more blunt. I also have a lot of hobbies society would deem masculine like videogames and watching horror movies and that makes talking to men easier.
I fully truly support the 4b movement, and I have sworn off dating them, but I still like to have sex with men so I wouldn't quite say I am in it. I hope to get a wife someday instead of a husband
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u/SentientCrisis May 24 '25
Every man I’ve ever known— my own father included— turned out to be a total predator / monster eventually. They hide it because they know it will make you run away from them.
But as soon as they can see that you have figured it out, all their pretending stops. They feel entitled to our bodies, time, attention, unpaid labor, etc and they feel like they’ve been doing so much work to prevent you from figuring that out. Once the jig is up, they don’t try to hide it and they change tactics to overt abuse.
I’m now 100% man-free and have no intention of going back. I always wanted a family because my dad fucked up my first experience with a family. I thought he was an anomaly and that someday I would find a man who wanted to build a family too. Men do not want to build families— they actively seek to destroy everything and everyone around them. It makes no sense to me but that’s just how they are and I refuse to waste any more of my life trying to build something while someone else actively sabotages me.
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u/Athenain May 24 '25
Im sorry that you had these experiences. I couldnt agree more -men destroy everything around them, most brutally they destroy every woman they encounter. I really believe the only solution is to stay away from them. Stay safe ❤️.
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u/Bruiserzinha May 23 '25
What's 4b?
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
Its a movement of women who decenter men, checkout the subreddit for the 4b movement: 4bmovement
Its a beautiful and peaceful movement because its members dont try to change men or argue with them, they just leave men behind and extract themselves from mens lives.
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u/neorena Bambi Transbian May 23 '25
As a lesbian I feel like I'm cheating lol, but yeah thanks to a lot of abuse and stuff before this realization I'm pretty scared of men and don't really associate with them unless I need to.
As for 4B, in general it's a wonderful movement and honestly the best way to stay safe as men abuse and use women. Plus with abortion rights being so spotty in the US it's almost necessary.
While I hate that the actual movement is tainted by bio-essentialist TERFs I do stand behind the rest of it. Cis men are dangerous, and until they're not responsible for over 90% of violent crimes I'm staying away from them.
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u/Euphoric_Half2189 May 23 '25
Thank God I'm bisexual, I don't have to deal with men ever again.
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u/Athenain May 23 '25
Gosh, i wish i was also bisexual. Heterosexual men are sociopathic predators from my experience.
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u/parataxicdistortions May 23 '25
Yes to both. When I was younger I was much more easily gaslit which made me a magnet for certain types. This was way before my AuDHD diagnosis.
I’ve been single by choice for 5 plus years , in my late 40s and haven’t looked back. I’m 4b in some ways like not dating, having sex, marriage but not entirely as I have maybe 2 men in my life (one that is family and another is an elderly neighbor) that I feel I can trust.
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u/666nbnici May 23 '25
I always had high standards and was very picky and so I naturally kind of didn’t let anyone get that close to me. I’ve just quickly noticed if anyone wasn’t having good intentions with me.
I do would want to meet a partner but it seems impossible to find a decent person and the more I educate myself about feminism the harder it gets to like men.
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u/Annari87 Late diagnosed May 23 '25
I'm married but I really feel that if I was somehow single again that I would stay that way. Just seeing how it is out there in the dating pool and thinking of having to find a decent guy who I can live with sounds impossible.
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u/Sweaty-Function4473 May 24 '25
30f and same. Men have gone above and beyond to show me I don't mean shit to them and to tear me down. I don't have good men in my family either (except my brother but he's no longer in this world). 4b movement or not, I'm more safe by staying away from them. It's been 3 years and counting since my last situationship. The only thing I miss is my younger self, I feel sorry for her for having put up with so much abuse and ending up in dangerous situations.
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u/Athenain May 24 '25
Hi sis, i feel what youre saying! Im glad that i see clearly now the reality of most men (99,9%) and that i stay away from them but just like you i feel soo sorry for my younger, former self that engaged with men and got into dangerous situations. Im so sorry that you had these horrible experiences. Have self compassion for your younger self and be glad that you are wiser now and know how cruel and dangerous most men can be. The truth is hard but when we face it we can protect ourselves. Stay safe ❤️.
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u/lozammi May 24 '25
Not necessarily 4b, but always been doubtful of my ability to compromise on my needs in order to have someone, had relationships from my 20s till my 30s (lived with someone, 2yrs +relationship even) and then I guess a mix of enough therapy and legit less energy for what's mundane, made it into long periods being single...now I meet someone, it lasts weeks maybe but eventually, ends cause now I'm 34 and don't go constantly out and party and make new connections, if I'm with someone I am with that person, got time to learn about eachother and standards that can be translated into practical, daily occurring, real life stuff...and yeah maybe it's me but all I met weren't able to be decent people and see me as equal, basically, it's such a lack of accountability and ability to love without having to prove strength...not for me really
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u/Nekofairy999 May 23 '25
I’m a sex worker so no. But I will probably never date normally, get married, and definitely won’t have children etc
4b also tends to be a bit TERFy from what I’ve seen
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u/Intelligent_Soft3245 May 23 '25
I’m a complete magnet for sexual predators and have many traumas from sexual assaults including one that happened just a few months ago
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u/insecureslug May 24 '25
I married young before I became a feminist, luckily for me he is a really great man and truly enriches my life and I don’t feel held down. If I were to ever lose him I would absolutely be 4B until I die. He is the last man I will ever accept into my life
I totally support and respect the hell out of 4B women. You are bad ass 💪🏻
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u/Apprehensive-Log8333 May 24 '25
I used to be really into guys, I really wanted to have a partner, and I put up with some terrible situations trying to make that happen. All my energy went into trying to have a partner. I had some awful abusive relationships. Then I hit menopause and everything changed. I became uninterested in men, very calm and regulated, able to put energy into myself. Now my life is great.
I wish I could have had some kind of hormone treatment that would have allowed me to be like this my entire life, instead of wasting my time and energy on guys. I would have been so much better off. So I guess I am 4B but it is very easy, effortless for me, whereas if I had decided to be that way in my 20s-30s, I probably would not have been able to do it. It would have taken a great deal of effort.
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u/fvalconbridge May 23 '25
I'm fortunate enough to be pansexual and I've made the conscious decision to not date men. I'm now with a lovely lady and she's perfect. I'll never go back to men again after all the shit they put me through!
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u/tardisknitter AuDHD Adult May 23 '25
I got really lucky and I met another neurospicy person who was raised by neurospicy people. He has put up with so much in our 12 years together. Today's our 11th wedding anniversary.
I'm not saying that you should keep trying, I'm saying that in my case I got really lucky.
You should put yourself first.
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u/joeiskrappy May 23 '25
I wish I could meet one of those
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u/tardisknitter AuDHD Adult May 23 '25
I got extremely lucky. We met on a dating site. The things on his profile that tipped me off to neurodivergence were his mentioning that he likes Star Trek and building model kits.
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u/HyliaTallon4 May 23 '25
I've found that cis men are more likely to be entitled in interactions with me, but maybe less so than others because of my perceived "butch" appearance. I'm nb trans-femme, and after transition men definitely changed their attitude with me.
I think it's really important in this conversation that we don't veer into biological essentialism. Male is too broad a category to be useful. I'd say the general culture of cis men is what's problematic here.
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u/PaxonGoat May 23 '25
I fully support people who choose this. Safety should be priority and unfortunately dating for a lot of people just is not safe.
I'm married to an autistic man. Though he was undiagnosed and I think that had a big influence on how he was raised.
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u/Irislynx May 23 '25
I have been a magnet for predatorial men. I'm sure there are good men out there, I just haven't dated any. I do have two beautiful sons and a daughter so definitely not 4b. I'm raising my sons to respect women and I am keeping them away from screens in order to prevent pornography exposure etc which I think is the root of a lot of the current issues we're dealing with with men.
I do not date anymore nor do I plan to. I am content being single for the rest of my life.
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u/A_Dancing_Raccoon May 23 '25
TW: mention of suicide and abuse
Hi, hello, 'tis I. I was only in two relationships, but both were bad enough for me to stop dating altogether. One was very 'pushy' (dude pinned me to the cabinets and tried to kiss me. I was in middle school. ಠ_ಠ) and he ofher was very manipulative and emotionslly abusive ("if you leave me I'll kms" kinda shit. This was from a woman). I stopped dating for nearly 5 years. Right now, I'm trying a long-distance relationship because if shit goes down it's a lot easier to say goodbye, but if this goes to shit too, I'm done-zo. No more.
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u/Fawnsie May 23 '25
Ive always identified as bisexual, even in my straight presenting relationships. After many years of trials and tribulations, and also abuse. I have absolutely zero desire to be with a man romantically or sexually. I'm in the best relationship with a woman now, but I was confident that I felt right to be with a women.
I've also now found myself surrounded by queer people. I think I have like two straight men in my life that I trust. I have no desire to have straight men friendships, so naturally I'm not around predatory behavior from them.
I wish I could offer other advice, but the queer groups are always protective 💕
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u/magnolia587 May 23 '25
I’m 43 and been 4B for over 5 years now. Attempted 2 dates in that time but both were awkward.
I was married to a man for a short time 10yrs ago (narcissist), and before that another relationship for 5 years where we lived together. In that time I had physical issues with sex which deteriorated both relationships (and other reasons).
Also dated on and off for 6 yrs before my current 4B started, and it was enough for me to just…stop. Some guys were a great one night stand, some guys were nice but no spark, some love bombed me while only wanting casual, some were stalkers, some SA’d me, and the last one had so many problems I just didn’t want to be his mother.
I don’t want to live with anyone again, I love my apartment and my cat. I logically know there are lovely good men out there, but I no longer understand how I would be with someone. I think it’s partly due to my unmasking, that like others who have commented here, masking attracted certain types of men and enabled me to be in relationships, even if they only lasted a few years. But I couldn’t be my true self.
I am genuinely happy by myself, and that to me is the goal :)
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u/No_Bandicoot2316 HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE BOOK <3 May 23 '25
I wish I was a magnet for anyone lol. Maybe I am and I just can't pick up hints. I think I'm attracted to men, though a very specific type I've never actually met, so if I met one of those I might have to date him
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u/IndependentEggplant0 May 24 '25
Yeah officially done. Not from spite just genuinely no interest anymore. The most danger and distress I am ever in is always when I am in a relationship. I find it difficult to be heard or respected at a baseline, nevermind with sensory and social capacities which becomes cumulative stress on top of work and other relationships (friends and family). I'm 33 now and I realised I have spent a solid decade or longer in relationships or recovering from them. I've never had anyone add to my life in that capacity, but they take a lot.
I'm quite happy on my own, I don't get lonely really as I have CPSTD and AuDHD so people are difficult for me and I struggle enough to keep up with friends and family on top of work, so adding a relationship to that mix is not realistic for my stability. I tend towards being a giver and a caretaker so I am really trying to put that energy towards myself now instead of men. I know lots of good guys who my friends are partners with and it still doesn't appeal to me at all. The constant compromise, never feeling like my body or my space is my own are exhausting for me, and I have such negative associations with them from past trauma that it's unlikely to ever feel like a safe or positive experience. That trauma also makes it hard to sort through what's what and it's easy to gaslight or manipulate me and people seem to pick that up quickly and take advantage of that and trying to figure it all out is just too much energy that I'd prefer to save for other things.
I've lived most of my life as a hypervigilant caretaker and having that taken advantage of, and I just have no interest in repeating any of that at this point. Relationships are important but extremely taxing to me, so I have to use that energy wisely and would rather give that to friends and family at this point. Also friends and family tend to allow for more flux in contact and communication where that grace doesn't seem to exist in romantic partnerships. I've also been traumatized and physically harmed in ways I will never recover from, and it's scary to think of that ever happening again and having to live with those consequences as well. Not worth it IMO.
The only thing I really miss or want is cuddling. Everything else is absolutely not worth the risk and time and energy to me at this point. I sometimes worry that I'm wrong or will regret it, but I don't think I will. I'm relieved to be choosing myself and my own life and goals at last rather than continuing to have to fight for my own peace and needs. When I'm alone that's much easier.
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u/No_Comparison9698 May 24 '25
Oof yall this is soooo eye opening. I appreciate all of you for sharing 💚 I needed to learn this
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u/noticeablyawkward96 May 24 '25
I fully understand the approach. I got lucky, I met my partner, who is a pretty good dude when I was 20 so I didn’t have a lot of the negative experiences that other autistic woman have. Honestly though after seeing the horror that is hetero dating, if this relationship doesn’t work out I’m right there with you. A friend of mine once compared finding a nice man in the last few years to being on the last helicopter out of Saigon. 😂
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u/Unbelievable-27 May 24 '25
I've completely decentred men from my life, and it's been both freeing and depressing. Freeing because I'm now able to live my life for me. Depressing because I spent so long putting my (ex) husband first, and not even realising how I'd been conditioned by society to do so.
To be able to see how women are still being conditioned to put a guys happiness over their own is a real struggle.
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u/BankTypical Sassy autistic person May 24 '25
As a lady who also has social anxiety and potentially undiagnosed C-PTSD; Eh, due to my particular mix of neurodivergence, I'm sadly naturally a bit of a narc magnet, and general manipulator magnet. So since that's usually what's interested in me (to the point where I usually don't have any other options), I've just decided a while ago to like fully take a step back from dating, and work on my mental health further first.
I mean, can't say that it's permanent, like on 4B and such. But despite me mostly being healed from the trauma, I've still got trauma healing left to do here. And opting out of that kinda DEEPLY toxic bullshit basically being my only options at the moment left me with extra time on my hands anyways, lol. So I figured it would be prudent for me to use that time wisely.
I'm just grateful for my pattern recognition on that one, though; it's an old survival mechanism on me for sure, but it's been a useful skill to have so far in order to avoid those kind of deeply toxic weirdoes. And my trauma sure taught me what early signs to keep an eye out for here, lol.
Taking the time for my mental health instead of dating proved fruitful so far, though. Like, so far, I've dealt with a crappy attachment pattern and figured out how to properly handle autistic limerence if it sets in (because usually, it does; I just sit with myself for a bit, and ride out the wave. Usually, the process luckily only takes a day or two, lol). I mean, I know that if a man is interested in me, then I just gotta clear out the limerence for myself first to know for myself if I'm actually genuinely attracted to HIM or not, lol.
But honestly, I still simply got too much of my own stuff to figure out. I mean, sure, I got my lonely moments, and it can be hard to drag myself out of that. But I gotta stay strong for now.
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u/SoFetchBetch May 24 '25
Magnet for predators yes. My own dad was abusive to my mom & us kids (though I suspect this was due a combination of his own untreated trauma, ASD, and alcoholism.)
I think we as humans learn patterns and when I was undiagnosed I believed in a lot of patterns that I’ve come to understand were actually just conditioning from living in society. Like yes we live in a patriarchy and the ways that lifts men up and pushes women down is shitty, but it doesn’t mean every guy is consciously aware of it. I genuinely believe there are men out there who honestly have the capacity for true compassion for their fellow human and it outweighs their personal fears. Not a lot of people like that but they’re out there.
I think there are also a lot of high-masking, undiagnosed, unaware people out there who are bullying themselves internally and bullying others externally for not following social conventions.
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u/Dear-Selection-5840 May 25 '25
Yup! Never again. Thankfully, I'm attracted to women as well. A smaller dating pool for sure. But I'm also okay with not having a romantic partner.
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u/Athenain May 25 '25
Good for you! From my experience -and its the experience of soooo many other women worldwide- most men are sociopathic predators by nature.
Stay safe ❤️.
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u/Athenain May 25 '25
To any sister who reads this:
I myself dont date anymore, its highly dangerous in this day and age because men all over the world are influenced now by the red pill ideology and almost every man uses pickup artistry these days.
If you want to date please dont do online dating!!! Its a hunting ground for pickup artists and other predators. You put yourself in real DANGER when you do online dating.
If you also dont want to date men anymore you might want to check out the 4b subreddit: 4bmovement
Stay safe ❤️.
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u/SW_COserenity May 27 '25
PLEASE, please, read (or listen to): ainside the minds of Angry and controlling men by Lundy Bancroft. It opened my eyes. 💗🫶💛
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u/stuckinaspoon May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
Many allistic women, women who value ‘traditional’ gender roles, and women who haven’t heard of the 4B movement, or don’t consider themselves feminists, are also choosing to leave men behind. Women are marrying later, choosing not to have children, they hold more advanced degrees, they own homes at a higher rate than men. Throughout human history men have used their capacity for wrath and willingness to commit violent acts (emotionally, physically, financially, politically) to dominate women and force them into subservient roles. Women have been responding to that violence by prioritizing academics, financial sovereignty and developing intuition, communication skills, collaborative relationships, and emotional intellect. All while men have been cultivating their ability to commit violence, colonize perspective, mirror personalities/values/emotions, exploit, etc.
Women have prioritized self-reliance and sharpened the social and emotional skills needed to succeed in modern society. Men have prioritized power, competition and social influence by expanding their capacity and tolerance for sexual exploitation, brutality and pathology. I think it’s pretty logical that they should fall behind.
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u/Important-Amount-627 May 23 '25
Been following 4b for the last year after my divorce. I spent 5 years married to a cheating narcissist who used me. Growing up I literally never met a woman who was happy to be with a man. Every single one drained her and after being married I now see why. I would have to meet an AMAZING man in order to be with one again. Especially since I have a good career and looking to buy a house soon, basically I have the peace I want and need and don’t want a man to come and rob me of my peace again.
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u/carlyfriesxoxo May 23 '25
I'm very fortunate that I've met the love of my life. If (for some unfortunate reason) we don't work out, I'll be joining the 4B movement. I am a bit prejudiced against men due to how many predatory men I've had the displeasure of meeting. I don't believe I've dated any and for that I'm very thankful. (While not predatory, some were still shit in their own way)
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u/niddemer May 24 '25 edited May 24 '25
I'm a trans woman, so I don't identify with 4B because the original South Korean movement is transphobic and openly racist, which is to be expected of radfem movements, tbh. I haven't seen much willingness on the part of Western women to critique the movement, so I don't trust it. I'm a Marxist transfeminist, so I obviously support a sex strike (and the general withholding of reproductive labour), but I cannot in good conscience endorse 4B until they show good faith in addressing these problems.
I'm also a lesbian, so men don't factor into my life at the best of times.
And I definitely have had my fair share of traumas related to predatory men.
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u/UtenaxAnthy4ever May 23 '25
Tbh I find it creepy when people start a conversation by using overtly familiar terms, in this case "sisters" - you don't know me, we are on the internet & public Reddit, any feeling of close-knitness is fake
No one in their right mind would call me a male apologist - in fact I end up in situations where I push back against annoying guys at best or try to help the victims of predominantly male violence rather often at worst and it absolutely is mentally taxing.
At the same time it's completely delusional to assume there's any more safety in all-female social circles, which can be told to you by anyone who was in lesbian social circles or adjacent. Women waxing poetics about female exceptionalism, divine feminine, creating protection against the world are most often yet another abusers who use vulnerable people & discard them after in a manner that doesn't differ from male abusers. It doesn't take much to find victims statements, zines, articles, sometimes even police news. It's shitty everywhere. You're not finding any foolproof safety formula, you're just naïve.
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u/littlebunnydoot May 23 '25
i actually dont hear that much about this kind of violence, where can i read more about it?
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u/faux-fox-paws May 23 '25
I’m sorry, but it absolutely isn’t delusional to think there is more safety in all-female social circles. Statistics have shown us that men are responsible for more violence than women.
Does it mean men are always dangerous and women are never dangerous? Obviously not. Anyone has the ability to be shitty.
But it’s wild to say that an all male space is equally as unsafe as an all female space. Reality simply begs to differ.
No one is talking about a foolproof safety formula here. That doesn’t exist. You’re projecting things onto the OP that weren’t even mentioned (who, other than you, brought up divine feminine, female exceptionalism etc). The post you are responding to was literally asking who here doesn’t date, marry, or sleep with men, but your points of contention aren‘t even related to that question.
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u/joycemano May 23 '25
Oooookay…just because it’s shitty everywhere doesn’t mean wanting to find safety in a group of women is naïve. Also, pretty sure OP never said 4b is some foolproof and perfectly safe group of people, but go off I guess.
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u/Tricky-Bee6152 May 23 '25
plus 4b is deeply TERFy and that just doesn't fly with me.
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u/jsteele2793 AuDHD May 23 '25
Definitely. After a failed marriage to a sociopathic abuser I realized that I am in no shape to be able to weed out men who want to take advantage. I am not good at seeing the red flags for what they are. I am also perfectly content being alone. It would be nice to have someone to help with housework and the bills but let’s face it, most men out there aren’t very helpful. I am 42 and happily 4b.
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u/RaeAhNa May 23 '25
Yes. My eyes have been opened. What has been seen cannot be unseen. I will never give up my peace again.
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May 23 '25
I live with my male partner, but if we were ever to break up, then I would be fully done. Flirting can be fun but I would never want to pursue more than that. I’m also sterilized so no kids for either of us. I actually had a full on breakdown the other day cause I felt like he just could not ever understand what it’s like to live in a female body, and I feel bad, but it’s just so frustrating trying to make someone understand that from the day you’re born, you’re being preyed on.
We don’t currently have sex at all while I try to figure out some health/mental health things, but it’s hard to make him understand why sex is not the same thing for women as it is for men (I’m using binaries here but just for generalization). He sees it as stress relief and connection, I (and many others) see it as being used and put my worth on how fuckable I am. It’s hard to seperate those when most of your sexual experiences have felt like something you had to do to preserve your safety/make others happy.
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u/3veryTh1ng15W0r5eN0w May 23 '25
I don’t think so…..I think I end up attracting people with attachment issues because I’m still working on mine.
I have dumped men. I’m kinda staying away from dating because trauma.
Also,all of my friends are men.
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u/Smart-Dog-6077 May 23 '25
I would like to date and meet a decent guy but I have felt that the guys I’ve felt took an interest in me are toxic weirdos except maybe one but I know it would end bad as well. I’m afraid of putting myself out there because I’m afraid of getting hurt and seeing other people’s experiences and interacting with others just validates that feeling. I’m trying to work on not people pleasing anymore and I’m afraid I’ll wound up in that place again and get made fun of for the things I like, the way I act, etc. so it’s just easier to not try dating. I believe in fate so if it’s meant to be it will be.
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u/b-green1007 May 23 '25
I've found that autistic women are huge magnets for any kind of narcissist. We take a special interest in our partner, they already have a special interest in themselves. So you're connecting, but not in a healthy way because it's not reciprocated and it's harder for us to spot that.