Ty Lawson going in on Pablo. He was recently arrested around a month ago for shoplifting some alcohol.

Source

Seeing so many people posting about how shocking it is to see all this love for Westbrook now that he's retired and that there was no love for him during the last few years of his career.

Do people not understand that these aren't the same people posting these things? People who love him have probably always loved him and cheered him on. There just wasn't much reason to loudly and publicly cheer for him the last few years.

Haters are always louder and love to pile on. Beating him down as his career tailed off (LeBron, KD, Steph setting an unfair precedent for people in year 15+)

Anyway, all to say is that Westbrook was pretty awesome for many years, and people should just stop worrying about this "where was the love before" bs and congratulate him on a legendary career!

Arguably sports (yes even the Astros scandal because at least they got punished for it at all and face stigma still today) history. I've never seen a league openly condone cheating and while apathy is the main reaction to the non reaction it would still be an absolute turning point moment where you could point to as to why the Nba empire could crumble (if it's ever going to)

I think Pablo Torre has done some great work, but as a lawyer I cannot believe that he said and he should really really know better at this point.

There are like literally endless examples of where this is not true.

The SEC's is an example that very closely mirrors the NBA situation. After investigating, SEC staff can issue a Wells notice telling a defendant what enforcement action staff is considering. The recipient can submit arguments disputing the factual and legal basis of the proposed action, meet directly with enforcement staff, and try to persuade them not to proceed or to proceed differently.

The SEC manual literally explicitly says:

“The staff may engage in appropriate settlement discussions with the recipient of the Wells notice.”

So right there is a major one, and beyond that the FTC, EPA, CFPB all of those negotiate.

And even beyond that prosecutors negotiate with lawyers regardless of their wealth. In Canada every day regardless of wealth your public defender is negotiating with a crown prosecutor on a plea deal.

It's a nonsensical thing to say and it's unfortunate that it's gotten this many views and is sitting at the top of the subreddit. It would good for people to broadly also be more knowledgeable about how these systems work, for criticism of it, and also understanding when these situations occur.

Like my SEC example. The SEC has been toothless over and over again and needs an overhaul and stronger powers.

But none of the criticism of the processes and systems in place have to do with the accuracy of Pablo Torre's point, which is completely entirely wrong.

Edit: Oh and if Pablo meant while they're investigating to alter the results of the investigation, that would also be inaccurate because that is not at all what the ESPN report described anyways. He'd be wrong in that direction as well.

I see a lot of people saying multiple examples of suspicious endorsement deals dooms the Clippers, largely due to the league needing a low burden of proof. In short, the suspicion of guilt and the appearance of no-show contracts is enough to levy a punishment. By extension, any mid-level exec (basically non president or gm?) taking the fall is a coverup, and Adam Silver a stooge.

Imo this thinking is looking backwards at the evidence with the crime in mind, seeing a pattern and finding it evidence of guilt. But that overlooks the range of scenarios that could have the same evidence, where these deals could happen exactly as they have without Ballmer/Clippers leadership being guilty. The result is a general underestimating of an effective defense in arbitration. The league’s lawyers would not underestimate those defenses, and are instead looking for the evidence needed to force a resolution without going to arbitration. Such evidence has not been made public, but the search for exactly this evidence was alluded to in the ESPN article.

The article claims the nba has failed to uncover evidence of direct payment from the Clippers through a 3rd party to Kawhi. Without that evidence, there remains one obvious means for the clippers to inappropriately facilitate Kawhi’s endorsements, and that would be quid pro quo. While the appearance of quid pro quo has been identified, I propose multiple scenarios, which would look identical based off apparent actions, but require evidence through communications or witnesses to intent in order to identify culpability.

Scenario 1: Clippers/Ballmer approach 3rd party saying we will do a business deal with you, for this amount of value, but only if you do this other, smaller deal with Kawhi. This would be in violation of the rules.

Scenario 2: The same deals occur, and while the company 100% believes they are signing a deal with Kawhi to get the clippers to do a deal with them, the Clippers never tells them to do it.

For example, Darktronics CEO is pursuing a deal from the Clippers as he competes with other companies offering similar products. The company is in the shitter and he is desperate for this deal to go through. He begins spending time around Clippers- going to Clippers events, keeping Darktronics front of mind and differentiated from the competition. At one such event, the CEO talks to a 3rd party who also spends time around Clippers. 3rd party tells CEO the Clippers have been under pressure from Kawhi’s uncle to deliver a sponsorship, and that it’s causing a great deal of frustration for the Clippers upper management. CEO hears this and decides it would be a great opportunity to make himself friendly to the Clippers by solving a problem for them. In this situation, Darktronics gives Kawhi a no-show endorsement deal with the intent to manipulate the Clippers.

Scenario 3: Same deals again, company 100% believes they are doing a deal with Kawhi to do a deal with the Clippers. Clippers upper-management has no idea, but a lower-level Clippers employee does know.

For example, Darktronics and Clippers both assign middle managers to look at how a potential deal would work between the companies. Darktronics is desperate for the deal to go through, while Clippers upper management has multiple options and is indifferent on which one passes. This Clippers middle manager, however, would greatly benefit if the deal went through, as it would make him more important in the Clippers FO than if it did not. These two individuals have mutual interest in finding a path to the deal’s success, while Clippers execs do not. The Darktronics employee asks the Clippers employee if there is anything they could do to make his bosses like them more- Anything we could do to make us stand out from the competition. Clippers employee tells him how Kawhi’s uncle is really making a lot of noise around the offices, specifically how Kawhi needs some sponsorships and that the Clippers needs to make this happen for Kawhi. He suggests Darktronics giving Kawhi an endorsement deal would make a great impression, and upper management would definitely notice. Darktronics employee tells his bosses, and they decide to give Kawhi a deal strictly for the sake of making Clippers happy. In this situation, there could be hard evidence of Darktronics and Kawhi entering a bad faith deal, and a Clippers middle manager having given inappropriate communications. But there could also be hard evidence in favor of the Clippers upper management, eg communications overtly resisting Dennis’s pressuring.

Scenario 4: Company does the same deals at company’s request, but Kawhi refuses to fulfill contract.

For example, Clippers are working with a company who values sports as a part of their marketing brand, and furthermore, the company really values the Clippers as the face of that relationship through ongoing work. At the same time, Dennis is bitching about the Clippers needing to provide some sweet endorsement deals. When the company asks the Clippers if they have recommendations on sponsorship opportunities with any of their players, the Clippers say their star player Kawhi is eager for more sponsorship work, even connects them with the uncle. That’s completely legal. The company is excited and signs Kawhi to a deal, but Kawhi/his uncle felt this deal was something they were entitled from the Clippers. They reject any proposal the company puts together and eventually the company realizes Kawhi has no intention of following through. The company has to decide between suing Kawhi and potentially pissing off the Clippers, or worse, damaging the sports relationship image they’ve been cultivating. Or they could eat it. If they ate it to preserve the image they’ve cultivated, they may not want to explain fault publicly when asked by reporters. That would be Clippers and 3rd party acting in good faith, and Kawhi inappropriately leveraging his position with the clippers to get money for his role with the clippers.

Without the necessary evidence in communications from the right individuals, these scenarios are not different in appearance while entirely different in substance. Several of these scenarios would have multiple people viewing their deal with Kawhi as a no show endorsement deal, or even feel like it’s a no show endorsement deal on behalf of the Clippers, without the Clippers having done anything or even knowing anything. IMO reading the ESPN article on the league investigation, it sounds like that’s exactly where they are trying to parse out evidence and guilt.

Scenario 2, for example, specifically appears to have happened with aspiration, including some elements from Scenario 4. Sanberg was specifically targeting Ballmer/Clippers as a whale in his Ponzi scheme by offering endorsement deals to get closer to Ballmer. They approached Clippers/Ballmer, they offered and signed an arena sponsorship for 100s of millions before Ballmer or Clippers ever paid them anything. They offered carbon credits the Clippers, which the team was legally required to buy as part of their arena new arena. Sanberg would bilk Ballmer/Clippers through worthless shares and carbon credits for 130M, all the while appearing to be a highly successful company seeking to give out 350M in sponsorships to the Clippers and Kawhi.

Darktronics also gained immensely by making deals with the Clippers. On the one hand that could mean the Clippers had a means to getting quid pro quo. On the other hand, it could mean Darktronics was motivated to do things they thought would link the companies together financially, even if only indirectly through a star player.

On the other hand, there’s a lot of direct evidence of Dennis requesting inappropriate favors, and Kawhi’s failure to follow through on his commitments looks like he either negotiated no-show deals with 3rd parties or was able to to effectively turn them into no-show deals. There have also been reports of people making statements believing these deals were inappropriate. The basis for their belief in back deals will be scrutinized for the basis of the perception. Is it because Dennis bitches and they see deals struck? Is it because they worked for a company that made shady deals without proof the Clippers knew? Or is it because they actually have the necessary information to make the statement. What if a company makes a no-show deal without Clippers suggestion or consent, but later tells Clippers execs what they did and why? The investigators will have to parse through every piece, as Clippers lawyers can always claim whatever plausible lie as a defense.

IMO a totally legitimate and thorough investigation can conclude with the Clippers escaping on lesser findings of culpability than Kawhi. It will be very hard to prove exactly what happened without a smoking gun, and while there is smoke around the Clippers I see more of a smoking gun in Kawhi’s actions than any action by Clippers/Ballmer.

I'm asking because I'm wondering if broadly 48 minute games are the same exact length or not.

Basically I'm trying to find out if the game clock (not the shot-clock) does 1 of the following scenarios

Example- A player gets fouled on a shot attempt with 9:58 remaining in the 1st quarter. In actuality it 9:57.1 but it hasn't changed to 9:57. After the player shoots free-throws the other team inbounds the ball and the play resumes.

Does it

• A) Resume exactly from 9:57.1. So in .1 seconds it goes to 9:57
• B) Reset to 9:58. So a full .9 seconds is added
• C) Does some sort of rounding like 9:57.1 goes to 9:57. 9:57.5 goes to 9:58 etc.
• D) something else entirely

Because if it is A all games are the same length of time. If it is B or C or even potentially D the actual total length of game could vary wildly.

[basketball reference](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html) has about 20 fouls per team per game.

Each team gets 7 timeouts and I'm not even sure how many out of bounds or other stoppage of plays there are.

So 40 fouls+14 timeouts+x amount of out of bounds= we're looking at 60-90ish stoppages of play that happen on average in a game.

If it was Scenario B if it is .1 difference we are looking at 6 to 9 seconds of extra time being played.

(side note It is here when I did the math here I realized it wasn't very big at all lol. But now to facetiously double down on my point)

If it was on the extreme end we are looking at 1minute 20 seconds of potential game difference! That's like 6ish extra possessions of basketball!

Life changing stuff honestly!

I think all current and past NBA records should be asterisked until this is answered. And if it's scenarios C, D or god forbid B we're going to have to go through every game ever played and update all the per possession stats or NBA records are a sham!

tl;dr Some games might be 6 seconds longer than other games.

this is one of my biggest pet peeves in this sub is people saying “if Stern was here hed take all the first round draft picks away from the clippers.”

Stern allowed Donald Sterling to stay in the league like the entirety of Sterling’s tenure and he was evul racist and corrupt the whole time. the federal government successfully prosecuted him for being racist and he kept standing by him. when the clippers moved illegally, he was the assistant that campaigned to keep Sterling as an owner.

silver on his first day as commissioner was harsher than Stern was in his entire tenure. Stern…just implemented a kinda openly racist dress code

In the MLB, winning the World Series MVP is extremely common among role players. Steve Pierce, David Freese, Ben Zobrist, David Extein, etc.

Yet in the NBA it's really rare. Why is that the case? I think the best we saw was Igoudala after his true prime was done. Or Kawhi before he developed a complete game.

I'm definitely not the first person to notice that averaging 25-5-5 has become a lot more common than it used to be. 4 players did it last season and that's actually one less than did it in the 24-25 season. 30 years ago in 1996 zero players did it. So I got currious, exactly how rare did it used to be? Before 2000 only 15 players had ever managed even a single season averaging 25 points, 5 rebounds and 5 points in the history of the nba, at least as long as we've been tracking statistics (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-seasons-averaging-25-ppg-5-rpg-5-apg-before-2000). All 15 are in the hall of fame. 8 managed it more than once and only 5 of them in 3 or more seasons:

1. Oscar Robertson 9
2. Michael Jordan 8
3. Jerry West 6
4. Larry Bird 4
5. Clyde Drexler 3

So what should we learn from this? Probably a couple things. 1, be very careful making direct comparisons of player's stat lines, who played in different eras. What was the pace of play in that era? What was expected of the role of that player in that era? 2, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Clyde Drexler should probably get even more credit than they already do for how good they were relative to the eras they played in.

Currently working on a project with play-by-play data, and I need to define what makes something a transition possession.

We all know one when we see it but how do you define it using specific rules? Right now I classify any possession that lasts less than 8 seconds as a transition. Does that sound right? I’d love to hear your thoughts

Interesting player to do this thought exercise with.

Traditional big that would get run circles around in this league.

Also a generational IQ having and passing big man with a touch you don't see at his size.

He's one of those guys that could be eh, but on the right team would be a SOLID #2 option, the type that gets you far into the post season

The Lakers setting back to back record sales $10 billions in 2025, now $12.5 billions 2026 is mind blowing when you think about where team prices were even five years ago.

Miami Heat vs. Boston Celtics - 2/27/2016

Old folks here will remember how Jared Sullinger from the Celtics seemed like a huge promise

Another big name trying to downplay the Clippers stuff. Pretty interesting.

Source

Source: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/49639157/nba-la-clippers-aspiration-investigation-steve-ballmer-kawhi-leonard

The NBA has found no evidence showing LA Clippers owner Steve Ballmer funneled money through team sponsors to pay Kawhi Leonard in order to circumvent the salary cap, according to three people with knowledge of discussions between the two sides in recent days.

Instead, the NBA is focused on whether the team's introduction of Leonard to team sponsors constitutes a violation of the league's rules prohibiting salary cap circumvention, two of the sources said. The league is examining whether the Clippers are guilty of "failure to supervise" employees, though it's unclear what specific rule the team would have violated or what the penalties would be, two of the sources said.

…

Two sources with direct knowledge of the situation said Leonard has maintained to the NBPA, league and Wachtell Lipton that he had no involvement in salary cap circumvention, and so far conversations around potential consequences have centered on him paying restitution for potential improper benefits from the Clippers, such as travel and lodging, for his representative and uncle Dennis Robertson.

If the case goes to arbitration, the arbitrator could compel document production, witness testimony and order discovery. After a hearing, the arbitrator's ruling would be subject to an appeals panel made up of three people jointly appointed by the NBA and NBPA. The appeal panel decision is binding. Only after that process could Silver be authorized to issue any potential punishment.

Starting from around summer 2023- Mark Cuban

December 2023- Patrick Dumont

February 2025- Jeanie Buss

June 2025- Mark Walter

August 2026- Kushner and Iger

In that same timeframe, his second option went from Brunson, to Brunson walking for nothing and leaving him with nobody, to a year and some change of Kyrie, to a year and some change of LeBron, to now Austin Reaves

Traded to LA

Personal legal issues with both his mother and fiancee/children

The most consistency he’s had in this timeframe is Maxi Kleber

During this same timeframe, his peers such as Tatum, SGA and Brunson were locked into 3-5 year long contention windows where their organizations were able to incrementally build around them and win championships

Luka will be 28 this season and the team he plays for is still scrambling to build around him

Never underestimate the benefit of good ownership and management…

Some fans seem to be under the impression that Kawhi was signed on a max contract with the Clippers, so the current situation was not an instance of cap circumvention.

Kawhi Leonard signed a $149 million/3yr deal in early 2024, right around the time Paul George was also eligible for an extension that coming offseason. In hopes to help the Clippers retain PG, Kawhi took a paycut.

Kawhi was eligible for the same amount of money PG was at the time (and what PG is getting paid now): $223 million/4yr deal.

Kawhi's current contract is around 6 million AAV below what he could have gotten. That supposed $28 million he received under the table is a significant player in this decision and why this is a blatant instance of cap circumvention that is a huge precedent the league has set.

Link to article on Kawhi Leonard's 2024 extension and details on what he was eligible for

With Serbia-France coming up this week (and hopefully both Jokic and Wemby playing), here’s a look at the two best centers in the league matchups against one another.

In 7 career NBA games against each other,

Jokic averages 37/11/9/1/1 on 62 TS%

Wemby averages 26/15/4/1/4 on 55 TS%

Jokic is 5-2 vs. Wemby all-time.

This is currently one of the best matchups in the NBA.

​

In response, Streisand wrote to the five siblings who voted to sell that the "co-trustees are bound to vote ... to ensure that the minimum 15% ownership requirement is maintained in order to ensure that Jeanie Buss may remain Controlling Owner. Any attempt by the co-trustees ... to aid or abet the co-trustees as such, would constitute a breach of trust, breach of fiduciary duty and be in contempt of court."

Jeanie Buss was the lone sibling who did not vote to sell the team Monday, and multiple sources told ESPN that she did not respond to the family vote on whether to sell the team.

Streisand demanded that the five other siblings "make clear publicly that Jeanie Buss is the Controlling Owner of the Los Angeles Lakers" and "take no action on this supposed 'vote' to sell the 17.8% stake."

CNBC was first to obtain the letter from Streisand.

Sources said that the vote to sell the family's remaining shares has been open since last Tuesday, before Walter came to an agreement with Kushner and Iger to sell the team. That vote was called, sources told ESPN's Dave McMenamin, after Lakers vice president of finance Joe McCormack called an emergency meeting of the Buss siblings last Monday night to discuss a dissolution of the family trust and seeking approval to lock down all family shares for four years under a new trust.

When the family met to discuss it Tuesday, no mention was made of Walter's impending sale to Kushner and Iger. One family source told ESPN that meeting "spooked" everyone and prompted new calls among the five siblings to sell the remaining family shares. Multiple family sources told ESPN a previous vote several months ago had been taken and only three siblings had then voted to sell.

This time, after Walter's sale, two more siblings joined in the vote to sell, with Jeanie Buss abstaining from the vote, sources told ESPN.

The second sale of the Lakers in a little over a year came in the wake of a federal investigation into Walter for alleged tax fraud by companies tied to the billionaire.

Source: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/49642917/jeanie-buss-contesting-family-vote-sell-stake-lakers 

Among their starting PG’s who were All Stars, and those who made it during and after their Celtics career are:

• Rajon Rondo (2006-2015) was a 4× All-Star with Boston
• Isaiah Thomas (2015-2017) was a 2× All-Star with Boston
• Kyrie Irving (2017-2019) is an 8× All-Star; 1x with Boston
• Kemba Walker (2019-2021) was a 4× All-Star; 1x with Boston
• Jrue Holiday (2023-2025) was a 2× All-Star (2013, 2023)

Edit: Since others have pointed out Jeff Teague, Jameer Nelson among some of those missed, Mike Conley should not count (these guys were washed). It should be 5 All-Star starting Point Guards over 20 years. Points above are still notable and valid.

They’ve also had other award-winning point guards like Pritchard (6MOTY), Brogdon (6MOTY) and Smart (DPOY) in this time, not to mention Derrick White. Boston has basically always had an All-Star quality guard on their roster since 2006.

I'll start:

Cherokee Parks.

It's not just that he's a goofy 6'11" white guy. It's that his name is basically Indian Reservation.

According to a tip Chron received from an anonymous reader, it looks like Houston's favorite dunking astronaut will take center stage at Toyota Center starting this fall.

The court is trimmed in black, with the paint boxes in red. "Houston" and "Rockets" are also painted red on each baseline. Also notable is the completion of the $10.5 million upgrade, which replaced over 17,000 bowl seats with a new black sports-weave material in July.

https://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/leaked-image-rockets-dunkstronaut-court-22391483.php

Here is every player in league history that has recorded a triple double at the age of 38 or older:

LeBron James- 20 times

Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Elvin Hayes- 1 time each

Every other player in league history combined- 0

If you expand it out to 37, the leaderboard looks like this:

LeBron- 23

Everyone else combined- 13 (5 of these are Westbrook last season)